M.S.406 - Made by France, Frankensteined by Finland
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- The Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 was the most common French single-engine fighter of the Second World War. It saw front line action well after the French armistice, and almost nine years after its first flight, it underwent a major and unlikely modification, showing that perhaps it could have achieved more.
Game footage and aircraft models
War Thunder - / warthunder .
00:04 History
10:33 Conclusion
Disclaimer - This channel is apolitical. We do not endorse any kind of political view.
Corrections
At 07:46 the image of the La-5 is actually of a Polikarpov I-185, a fighter that had only four units built.
Music by order of appearance
History:
Beautiful Oblivion by Scott Buckley ssoundcloud.com...
Music promoted by httpswww.free-stock-music.com
Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
screativecommon...4.0
Finlandia, Op. 26 by Jean Sibelius
Conclusion:
Les Toreadors from Carmen - Bizet | TH-cam Audio Library
Sources
Morane-Saulnier MS.406 Aces - Kari Stenman and Christian-Jacques Ehrengardt
The Morane Saulnier 406 - Profile Publications - Gaston Botquin
Polish Wings 2 - Morane MS 406 C1 (...) - Bartlomiej Belcarz
French Aces of World War 2 - Barry Ketley
Fighter Aircraft Performance of WW2 - A Comparative Study - Erik Pilawskii
I do not own any of the images used in this video. The owners of such images are identified in the video itself.
![Gloster's Forgotten Rival To The Hurricane | Gloster F.5/34 [Aircraft Overview #57]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zJ6KO5sAXyw/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey there! I hope you enjoyed the video and sorry for the slight delay on this episode.
Love your channel
@@DM-mb9ov thanks , I put a lot of time and thought into my comments.
The Finns had a great talent for making silk purses from sows ears. What they did with the so-so Russian m91 rifle is another great example.
ain't that the truth
no doubt the Finns are brave and skillful pilots, but i suspect the qualities of the Russian pilots have also much to do with it, at least in the initial stages .
True. Finnish pilots had supreme skills and training compared to soviet pilots. Also finns had lot more advanced tactics. The famous 'four finger' formation was created by finns, then copied by the germans
The big problems with Mosin Nagant is a half century of conscript maintenance and the fact that it was sighted in with the bayonet always fitted. No bayonet = wildly inaccurate (and no-one in the west has the matching bayonet).
Wait when our engineers get their hands to F-35.. 😬
First plane that comes to mind that was vastly improved by a change of engine is the Mustang.
With an Allison engine it was okay. With a Merlin it was outstanding.
At high altitude.
At low altitude the Allison was fine.
Even the p-38 Lightning supercharged Allisons corrected that flaw.
Became a legend 👍
I would like to mention the Messerspit as it was said to be superior to both the bf109 and the spitfire, although it never saw frontline service.
the la-5 for sure and the fw-190d
First thing I thought when the author of this video said what makes a fighter plane is its engine I thought. The Mustang. However the British Introduction of a decent powerplant to the Mustang proved it was a fighter frame worth developing further. This is cross nation functionality which Germany did not utilise beyond really Germany and Czech for tanks if it had expanded that to Italian in fighter planes too. True to their nature Italians were making sports cars of the skies
My grandfather was a Morane mechanic during ww2. He gave me the blueprints for it when I was a child. Regrettably I lost them.
You may still find them from somewhere.
That's sad
The reason why Finns made those "frankensteins" caused of worry for lack of figters. If BF-109 had been available at the outset of the war, no Frankenstein mods would have had to be made.
Glad to finally see a video that comprehensively lists all the flaws that plagued the MS-406 without being overcritical about it
Je comprends bien ce que vous voulez dire et en tant que Français j'ai apprécié qu'il nous soit épargné ici l'habituel bashing mais...vu le nombre de défauts de conception du Morane-Saulnier 406 , point n'était besoin d'en rajouter ! 🙄
The Klimov M-105 was based on the Hispano 12Y series, so it was a relatively simple bolt in.
Morane ms206 akin to Hawker Hurricane but Finn's always seemed able to turn sow,s ear into silk purse.
Great video, I love the Mörkö. And you're the first tuber I've ever heard pronouncing it correctly ;)
Thank you. I did put some effort into getting the pronunciation correct, I'm glad somebody noticed it! 👍
But he pronounces Morane like "Mohaan". Is that right? Is that how the French pronounce that?
@@mikemortensen4973 Yes. That's how it's pronounced, outside France too.
@@mikemortensen4973 Hi, yes this is the correct pronunciation (the french R can be tricky to spell well).
@@mikemortensen4973
As a French, the right way to pronounce it is without an aspired "h" sound.
In the 40s, French people had a tendency to "roll" the RRRRRRRR like in the Mörkö word hear during this video.
Big shame that no Mörkö-Morane has been preserved. I wish one was in a museum.
Same goes with many plane types. Incredible greed to destroy history for the price of scrap metal...
I'm very proud to say, that both of my long time passed uncle's were building these "boogie Morane's" during the II:nd Word War here in Finland as flight mechanics.
They said, that "even we did'nt get so many drops as soviet planes with them, we had so much fun to building and testing these planes!"
WT changed the Mörkö by the way, and it now allows you equip either the UB or the MG151
"Mörkö" means "Bogeyman", famous from American children's nightmares.
Mörkö-Morane was sometimes called as a second-class fighter. This nominating originated railroad passenger cars classification: first-class was very comfortable, second-class had soft velvet-clad benches and third-class were equipped with wooden benches and seats. Passenger ticket prices were according with these classes, 3rd was cheapest.
Messerschmitt Bf109G was rated as first-class fighter aircraft.
Finnish kids know "Mörkö" from the Moomin trolls.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomins
The most famous example of a vast improvement of an aircraft by changing its powerplant, is the North American P-51 Mustang which originally was equipped with an Allison engine. It was the same engine that the Curtiss P-40 used, as the British customers wanted that engine to be used. Once the fighter got to England, and was thoroughly tested, it was found that it, like the P-40 before it, couldn't really handle high altitudes. One test pilot asked if a Rolls Royce Merlin engine could be tried. This proved such a change in the P-51, that American car company Packard, was tasked with building more Merlin engines in the United States for the following production of P-51s. North American, themselves impressed with the changes to their fighter, redesigned the air intakes and cut down the fuselage behind the pilot to give him full 360 degree unobstructed vision by using a "bubble" canopy. This also led to an increase in speed and range, as the Merlin/Packard used less fuel than the Allison did. Once these changes were implemented, the Mustangs were finally able to escort the bombers anywhere in Germany called for on the day.
P-40 F and L models got the Merlin too. That's why the lack the carb scoop on the top of the engine cowling.
Nice to hear something new! Everybody knows about the ME-109s and Spitfires.
such a hidden gem of a channel
Great informative video! Another one on the Dewoitine 520 would be great! Keep up the good work👍
Thank you! I will certainly cover the D.520.
Warning. It had terrible handling. The Aircraft was used by the Luftwaffe for training. The stall was viscous and unannounced. Probably could have been fixed by wing redesign.
For anyone that plays war thunder, get the Mörkö Morane. This thing is insane, It climbs like a 109 and turns like a spit. It only has 2 downsides, it has mediocre firepower with limited ammo, and the top speed is mediocre as well.
You will be on equal alt or higher than the opponent at the beginning of the game (after climbing ofc), and you can fight anyone that you can't run from, and you can fight plenty of the ones you can run from as well. It is good in the horizontal and vertical, and with trigger discipline, an ace game without landing to rearm is definitely possible.
It is a hidden gem at 2.0, sitting in the shadow of the more famous planes such as the 109E, yak1, f2a, and many more.
There are only a very few aircraft that it faces that I fear a little when flying the Mörkö Morane, such as the Ki-43, Yak-1b, F2A-3, Bf 109 F-2, and the He-100 (although this one may just be because i hold the He-100 to the same high regard as the Mörkö)
TLDR: The Mörkö Morane is a low tier beast! It is it does nothing bad, it does a lot of things quite good. Added to that is that you mostly face green pilots, so you can really play around with your food... Get this aircraft and you will have a lot of fun!
I actually reached the same conclusion as you. I got the Mörkö just for the purpose of making this video, and I don't regret it at all. Although it was made in arcade mode, so it's hardly a feat, the clip at the end is a sequence of 8 "kills" in a row with the Mörkö. It's quite good for its 2.0 rating.
@@AllthingsWW2 Play it in realistic, trust me.
Ultimate seal clubber!😊 473 kills and 83 deaths on air RB!😉
The plane needs a buff for more ammo, seriously only 600 mg ammo isn't enough
@@tomi9562 seriously in real life Mörkö had 600 rounds in those two 7,5mm MAC's. So there is No need to buff more rounds or nothing on technical side. Only change that 2.0br to 2.3 or even 2.7br!
I have had 7 kill matches with this on 3.0br and I was the only one who did fly 2.0br plane on air RB!
Good, informative video, AllthingsWW2. I like many things about the air war in WWII involving those two countries beginning with 'F', with a 'complicated' war, so it's especially welcome to have a video featuring them all-in-one.
One might add the Macchi-Castoldi MC 200 to the 202, in terms of fighters being improved by a change in power plant, but I don't think that the MC 200 was all that poor a fighter in the first place and air-cooled radials do lend an appreciable plus when it comes to being harder to shoot down.
Really nice video
So glad that you are doing a real narration and not the fake Computer voice - real is better
Top notch research and presentation! Other exampleas of engine-revived aircraft Avro Manchester/RR Vulture vs, Avro Lancaster/RR Merlin, P51A/Allison vs. P51 B, C and D/RR Merlin.
The M.S.406 and especially its 410 and 450 improvements were very underrated planes especially as the M.S.450 was actually faster than the D520 although it had less stretch potential. The improved 450 was only 5km slower than the 109E and was able to get to 3km in only 2 mins due to it's lighter frame whilst maintaining excellent horizontal maneuverability. The Morko-Morraine is much closer to the 450 in specification than the 406 unfortunately, the 450 was only just entering service in June 1940 but the French did plan to upgrade all 406s to the new 450-standard which included giving it a new 1100hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51 engine as well as new wings and a modified tail.
Very intensive video. Thank you. Finnish veteran pilots said: you could scary Soviet pilots by 5 first cannon rounds. Then you need to stab them by machine gun barrels. This means: cannon went many often jam after short burst and rifle caliber mgs were no power. Cannon shels were also too "sensitive" and blows on the surface of the plane body. No penetration power. Cannons were also replace with 12,7mm Colt machine guns, cause in early war there was no other cannon to use.
Fuse sensitivity was a design feature that made sense against the Soviet fighters of 1939. Unfortunately, it turned out to be the wrong choice of sensitivity in the bigger picture.
The cause and solution of the HS-404's jams was quite interesting. Finland's weather made the problem worse, of course.
Finns made "armor piercing" ammos from cannon shells. They take off the explosives from cartridge. Few this kind of ammo first in the magazine and then you had better change to get explosive ammos inside the hull or engine.
@@perttisalminen6357 Do you think that the explosive rounds go through the holes made by the inert rounds???
Maybe it works in short burst? Finnish veteran pilot Antti Tani told this to me.
I saw the Mörkö Morane in the game IL-2. I had no idea about its history.
Imagine I'm duplicating others, but planes improved by an engine swap surely include the P-51 (Merlin for Allison); P35 became the generally faster and better P-40 by replacing the Twin Wasp with an Allison; Corsair got a significant boost in speed by putting 28-cyl P&W in to replace the R-2800 most had; Spitfires with Griffons were better in a number of ways than Merlin-powered variants. Italians put a B in one of Macchi fighter instead of the Alfa Romeo radial for great improvement, plus another got a D-B instead of the IF originally installed, also to great improvement.
Great vídeo! The M.S 406 is a great topic.Well done again! Saudações!!
Obrigado! Abraço.
The Hispano Aviación HA-1112 the Spanish built version of the Bf-109. Originally used the Hispano-Suiza 12Z-17 engine. The HA-1112-M1L was fitted with surplus RAF Merlin's, 172 built which finally retired in 1965..
Change of powerplant? Best known must be the Mustang A-model. It was useless against German planes over altitude of 3km. Then, british mechanics tinkered a Merlin into one dumping its Allison engine - pilots tested it and told that now this thing kicks ass.
Later P-51D with R&R Merlin engine became good and famous. :)
Nice vid!
I think it was not mentioned, the Finns started armouring the pilot seats in 1940, right after getting the planes.
Your pronunciation of French is impressive. Most people screw it up. And your use of War Thunder models is an excellent add-on. Keep it up.
If this had been better armed and not so many caught on airfields in 1940, I wonder how different things may have been?
Well done love the graphics keep up the good work 👍
Thank you!
Switzerland built an upgraded one too. They pushed the hispano suiza to 1250HP called D-3802
only 11 D-3802 was built , not realy the best choice because the aerodynamics from the Morane was outmoded
@@leneanderthalien Well in 1946 it was not needed anymore and P51 were cheap as bread.
Looks like the P-51 Mustang but with the British Merlin engine, armor, self sealing gas tanks, and more machine guns and with rockets, it was a war winner.
Absolutely outstanding video - very, very impressed !
I've always liked & loved the quirky & awkward looks of this much maligned French fighter
Triang/Rovex/FROG models made a 1/72nd scale kit of this plane in the 1960's & 1970's**
**(sadly they went bust in 1976 - But you can still find their kits on places like E-Bay, for example)
Once again, GREAT video & keep up the good work
Some that improved do to engine swaps were la 5, mustang, Brewster buffalo, ki 100, fw 190, spitfire, mc.202, and p-40.
Buffalo?
@@chriscarbaugh3936 finns would replace the engine with the i-16/i-15 engine. It was close to the same engine, but with a slight improvement to power to weight ratio.
The first AC that come in mind is the LaGG3 wich went into the La5 with a radial engine and better armament, and the Focke Wulf 190 from A Version to D9 for example, the Spit from Mk1A to Griffin, the evolution of the 109 during the war with better airframe and many DB engines
Actually I believe the 109 first flew w a Rolls Royce Kestrel because the Jumo 210 was not available. Later the excellent DB601 with innovative fuel injection and the more improved DB605 was fitted. Post war the Czechs re-engineered 109s w the Junkers Jumo 211, to throughly ruin a decent fighter. And of course she was re-engines again in Spain w the RR Merlin! Pretty interesting stuff!
Yes, but only the prototype and the Bf-109 A version, which was a very limited edition (about 50 built)
Suddenly I have a craving for a baguette
Great content. Great production quality. Very good all the way round.
Cool post . I really dig the retractable radiator .
The MS-406 was the French Hawker Hurricane.
Hmm, not exactly. At least the Hurricane was rugged and could carry a heavier armament later in the war. Meanwhile the Morane had little potential for development. It was really a stopgap, so as France could get a modern fighter as quick as possible, waiting for the more promising D-520 and MB-152.
@@razorback20 The MS-406 is to the DW-520 what the Hurricane is to the Spitfire.
Great video. Thank you.
Thank you!
I read somewhere that the gun trigger was connected to the guns via an air hose. So the guns were fired pneumatically. This caused a noticeable delay from pressing the trigger to the guns actually firing. Don't know if this is true, but it does sound like one of those wonderfully French engineering innovations!
Good video.
Take any fighter, add a Finnish pilot- voila!
An important reason for their impressive performance was the Pyry trainer aircraft - a nasty and unforgiving machine. Thus, they really learned to fly.
THANKS FOR THESE
Besides the sow’s ears, silk purses and the M-91 rifle you forgot to mention they have great looking women in Finland 🇫🇮 I know it!!!
`The p51 springs to mind for the engine change
I love this aircraft. It would have been a formidable fighter if the war started in 1936.
Did you forget the Spanish Civil War? (1936-1939)
Actually in 1936 there were no Morane fighters produced. It went to massproduction in 1938 so...
@Mt Lb You are correct. Forgive me, I have a doctorate in military history and specialize in WW2. I have a lot of info jammed into my brain.
Another Fun informative video A+ grade. BtW thank you for not using God-awful fake robot or almost even worse the new smoothed out auto-tuned text to speech programs were narrator sounds like he is from a late 1970s American coffee commercial 🤣😉👍
Thank you! Well, my accent does annoy some people, but it is what it is! 👍
The conversion was ready so late for the summer of 44 that it had a fairly minimal impact on the continuation war.
(Generally, one should avoid french technology, british cuisine and german humour… or flip those three somehow, at least… 😂 )
As asked, re: replaced engine The Japanese turned the already good Ki64 Hein into a super fighter when by necessity they put a radial Sakai engine in 200 airframes and wam, they had a very winning new fighter that could go toe to toe with any of the Allied aircraft at the time. The Ki100b
Spot the exhaust collector at 5.20 mins.
The Mustang changed with a Rolls Royce Merlin engine!
The Finnish have a real knack of kissing frogs and getting a princess.
3:41, Didn't the Me 109E only have one 20 mm. cannon firing through the hub of the propellors?
Just off the top of my head, the P-36 getting the Allison v-1710, P-51 getting the Packard built Merlin, whatever It was that became the Lancaster with the four Merlins, and the plane that became the Yak-15.
It was the Manchester with the RR Vulture engines.
The Finnish Air Force did what they could with what they had, which wasn't much. Top marks for ingenuity and pure stubbornness.
According to "Random military history" ( th-cam.com/video/SzL85X3brJ8/w-d-xo.html ) the nickname came from somebody on the ground crew remarking that the engine "growled like a bogeyman" on take-off. They also point out that a major issue with the Franken-Moranes was the engine being vastly overpowered to the design limitations of the airframe, which caused a lot of vibration damage over a relatively short service life.
8:38 also this change was done in Czechoslovak factory.
U mentioned 2. P-40 came from the P-36 & La-3 got radials in their La-5,5N & 7s. Yeah, lol,... I'll throw in the Mustang 😉.
I prefer the Allison version. Many thanx 👍
I am convinced the Finns are different species of human beings. This will only show up during war.
Very good subscribed. Just curious...are you Tuga? 🙂
Sou sim. Obrigado e bem-vindo!
The airframes of these aircraft could not handle the increased speeds provided by the Russian Klimov M-105, which would have likely limited the lifespan of the Mörkö-Morane as a frontline fighter by quite a bit, had the war lasted longer. See also here: th-cam.com/video/SzL85X3brJ8/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Satunnaistasotilashistoriaa
Also, the French 20 mm cannons jammed a lot, forcing the Finns to downgrade the weapon hardpoint in the nose to a machine gun. A Colt 12.7 mm machine gun was found to be the most effective replacement prior to the Mörkö-Morane upgrade.
Regarding 9:22 and 10:05 in the video: those planes are at the Latva airfield in Olonets Karelia. They're not in Latvia.
Näyttääkö tuo kuvani tutulta hahmolta satunnaista sotilashistoriaa videolta?😉
@@MRannikko Ei ole tuttu kuva, mutta nimi näköjään löytyy Morane-videon lähteistä. Sieltä nuo parin kuukauden takaisen kommenttini jutut otinkin, joten kiitos kontribuutiosta. :)
@@FulmenTheFinn siinä on tosiaan tuosta kuvastani piirretty hahmo kun olin apuna keräämässä tietoa ja tarkastamassa videon tekstit.
@@MRannikko Kappas, niinpäs onkin! Ei enää muistunut, kun videon katsomisesta on jo muutama kuukausi.
That was not so obsolete plain in 1940. But french pilots were unskilled and demoralized. For instance they refused to take off toward germans because... that was lunch time.
The most important attribute of a fighter aircraft is SPEED ! The French didn't understand that. But then, they didn't have the expertise to develop more powerful engines, so they went with what they had. There are many examples of aircraft upgraded in overall performance by an engine swap ( Mustang ) but the most interesting one ( for me ) is the Messerspit. An intact Spitfire captured by the Germans and fitted with a DB605 engine. Tests proved that it outclassed both the BF109 G and the FW190 D. However, the Germans did not have the capability to reverse engineer the Spitfire airframe in a timely fashion and the idea went nowhere. The Messerspit was destroyed in a bombing raid in 1945.
That's a good story
One day those swiss may have to fight for one side or the other!
This plane just lack a good engine to be effiscient. You have the smae story witht he buffaly, the version used by UK and Australia was so bad and the Finland was so good.
It can also show on how bad CCCCP plane where.
a funny little plane that was maybe a little too compact. a bigger plane could have accepted a bigger upgraded engine
The French MS406 had a sad History. The governement stopped Hispano Suiza from providing the upgraded engines that would have made the 406 the equivalent to the BF109. Ironically, the Polish and the Swiss got the upgraded engine and had better MS406s than the French. Polish airforce went mostly undefeated in the skies, contrary to their ground forces.
Also to note, the Morane Saulnier training school was amongst the best pilot training you could hope for.
Vous avez raison sur les moteurs améliorés , non disponibles pour les pilotes de chasse français (qui se seraient appelés , non plus MS-406 mais MS-410) !
Mais n'oublions pas , quant aux scores de la chasse polonaise , que les chasseurs polonais n'avaient en fac d'eux que des Me 109D "Dora" !
Les pilotes français ont été très surpris au printemps 1940 de découvrir les redoutables 109E "Emil" version très supérieure en motorisation (DB601) et armement !
Always though a retractable radiator would be prone to leaking and failure… just more moving parts to fail/wear out/bind up.
Many ww2 aircraft had reactable radiators (some even automatic!) , and I think many where also prone to failure. But if that was due to the moving part i dont know.
@@zumbooruk123 Many .. really? I can’t think of another right now. Can you name a few?
@@guaporeturns9472 Me109,
hurricane and spitfire to name a few. Most planes with a V type engin where liquid cooled and had a radiator that had to be open and closed to adjust temperatur.
@@zumbooruk123 that’s not the same as a retractable radiation. Retractable means it is pulled up inside the aircraft when not needed. Adjustable shutters/doors to regulate the airflow through the radiator is completely different. Maybe English isn’t your first language? Anyway look up definition of “retract” Thanks
You would think that, but, amazingly, it was one component that functioned reliably.
P51 mustang for sure !
Interesting
A French airplane that mechanistically resembles Gerard Depardieu.
Built a model of this plane because i really enjoyed using the ms.410 in war thunder and thought it was an interesting story, thanks for giving more information on it.
It was a totally mediocre fighter at best, the only viable French fighter plane of the times was the Dewoitine 520. Finns had to use everything they could grab.
Sad but true. Its lack of speed and power was fatal. Not even mentionning the unreliable armament and absence of protection. But times were hard. If you had to face the Luftwaffe but only had the choice between the MS-406 and the outdated Dewoitine D 500 / 510, which one would you have picked?
Yes, exactly !
7:46 it`s not La-5, it`s Polikarpov I-185
Yes, it seems it's not. I'll add it to the corrections under the video description. Thank you.
V-12, please.
Mustang 👍🏻🏴
NOT FAIR!!
Using Finlandia hymn in a video is cheating!!
My heart, I can't even.
I don't know who is at fault for this; but your aircraft videos are jammed so closely to each other that as soon as one finishes, a new one pops up, LEAVING NO TIME TO HIT THE LIKE BUTTON OR LEAVE ANY COMMENT !! YOUR FAULT, OR INTERNET FAULT ? To leave any comment or a simple "like", you have to hit the stop of the new video and back track to the one you want to "like" or leave a comment. This is rather tedious and discourages ANY comment !
Portuguese...without a doubt
11:40 Frederick Fazbear
Frankenwhat? 😅
Thé morasne was à Bad plane but thé russians ones were worse! Notice that thé firme Morasne still exist under thé name of TBM.
false pronunciation from Morane: it's noty mohane but in english it's like: More anne
The M S 406 was considered easy meat by Bf 109 pilots They were slow underpowered lacked self sealing tanks and sufficient armour Most of the claims of victory by French pilots were grossly inflated
dream on with your history telling
🌸 ƤＲＯ𝓂Ｏ𝕤ᗰ
It' s very hard to understand your english
Use subtitles
Mustang springs to mind, replaced the Allison with a Rolls-Royce Merlin and you get the best propeller fighter of WW2
It did not have direct fuel injection so I would not call it the best in WW2.
I would rather consider the Fw-190 for that title, but that doesn't really matter at all.
The french vehicle always Frankensteined, first the tank now the plane now what