I served on a case of a young person with mental illness. I was a green elder. I asked the 2 elders I was with on the jc with how can we judge a person with mental illness. I felt totally inadequate, that is the biggest understatement ever. We disfellowshipped the young man. This was the worst feeling I ever had. I felt so ashamed! Still haunts me.
This just proves that the leadership is deceptive in leading the rank and file into believing that this CULT is loving and the elders CARE ABOUT YOU. This CULT twists what loving kindness really is. Its really MENTAL CRUELTY.
The fact that it’s done in secret, you’re not allowed to have a friend or representative with you, you’re not allowed to take notes, no audio or video recording allowed- IT IS MADNESS! There’s no transparency, honesty or love shown. Thank you for another amazing episode 😁
There’s a channel called “watchtower history” hosted by two guys. They recently uploaded 2 recordings of an XJw who recorded the whole kangaroo court and after he is asked to leave the room he keeps recording. he appeals and records that too. More ppl need to record their farce trials and exposed this cult.
@@hustonmices3976 omg I know! For a while I was obsessed with judicial committee videos. Alt Worldly has a great one. That’s exactly what it is, a kangaroo court !
Thank YOU for listening! There is such an aura of mystery around it,....it's ridiculous and in many cases, NOT KIND. I dealt with a lot of teenagers. It will gut you if you truly care. And I myself was a teenager who got in trouble.
I’m at 28:17 and tears are running down my face. I have panic disorder so I understand what this girl was going through. When I got disfellowshipped at 17, my judicial committee was almost identical to the one you’re describing. That was when I had my first panic attack and those 3 elders just sat there silently. The meeting was over 4 hours long because I couldn’t calm down enough to speak. Wow I haven’t thought about that experience in a long time. Unlike you, those men offered no comfort or love. I’m sure that girl will always remember your compassion during such a stressful time. Back to the video ☺️
Enjoyed listening to your take on a JC from the inside. My own experience was very upsetting. I was raised a JW, and never did anything wrong. At 16, I tried to rescue my friend from a situation she got herself into. She was an elder's daughter, and a little bit wild. She was 14 and got drunk at her worldly boyfriend's place. She called me to come get her, as I had a driver's license and car. I took her home and she snuck in the back door so she could slip into her bedroom and sleep it off. That should have been the end of it. BUT, she threw up in the hallway on the way to her room and her mother found out. The next Sunday, I got called into a JC meeting. For some reason, they found a way to blame ME!! I was so angry for years afterward. I felt the injustice of it all was too much - and how my parents didn't stick up for me, etc. It upset me so much, that it made me question the whole religion. I gradually "fell away" in my early twenties. Then, one day it hit me: That unfair treatment was actually a GIFT. It's what made me wake up. So, don't beat yourself up too much about how you treated people in your "Judicial Committees". Maybe your treatment of them actually helped them see the religion for what it is: a cult run by men.
I'm so sorry READ! I could tell dozens of similar stories. We came home one night to a friends house who's father was an elder and snuck in the house, only to walk through HIS fvomit down the hallway.....he was drunk, again! .....and he was an elder.
I can relate to the young girl with how the judicial committee reacted with no emotion to my distress. I did not have a panic attack but I was hurting and they knew that. But the worst of it was how when I left the room while they discussed my case with prayer (yeah right) I actually heard them LAUGHING more than anything else. There was LOUD laughter and I could not understand what could have possibly been so damn funny. Well when they called me back in to tell me they were disfellowshipping me, I got angry and responded with a loud voice. It was then that I realized these men never knew me and basically condemned me to death. That was 34 years ago and it still disgusts me when I think back on it. I know not all of them are as flippant and arrogant. Glad you took your role differently than these bone heads and so many others like them
I'm literally ANGRY reading your experience!!! That is AWFUL!! Inhumane!! I didn't want to trigger anyone or upset anyone...but laughter....all too common. Most of these men are ill equipped to handle personal relationships, much less the complex problems of others. I'm so sorry rdhawk929 ...I'm glad you're out!!
My first waking up moment happened after my judicial committee & subsequent appeal. At the end of both, the lead elder offered parting words of “comfort”. The problem, both men gave the exact same speech verbatim, like they were reading from a script; turns out they were. At my lowest moment, neither could be bothered to come up with his own words. Talk about mailing it in 😠
So sorry Clyde, I've seen that scenario play out dozens of times. Canned 'words of encouragement' as people's entire world implodes. Most elders just want to get it over with ;(
Great podcast! It becomes so clear for all of us ex elders when we get out of the box. We wasted years of our lives enforcing doctrine and rules found nowhere in the Bible! The poor sheep we led.
I got called a few times into judicial meetings over random bullsugar. But in one of those, an elder made a pass at me. It happened so casually and in front of 3 other elders, I'm still in two minds about it quite honestly. But I remember my stomach dropping and feeling like I wanted boak ( spew). Then he went on to start bragging about having a couple cars etc and I'm sat there like "wait...what?..." That had nothing to do with them asking why I'm so quiet. I was in my early 20's and all those elders were late 50's and the one in his 60's for sure. Most elders I came across were different shades of freakazoid. I think they use those meetings to perve on women and girls and guys. Thank you for never being one of those xx
Serving on Judicial Committees were the single most important reason why I left this cult. Justice was never even keeled…elders who were found guilty were given slaps on the wrist..kids or women guilty of the same sins were treated much more harshly. I’ll never forget a 16 year old girl who had to confess the sin of sleeping with multiple boys in her class…the elder leading this thing wanted her to tell us if the sex was oral, vaginal and/or anal…this in front of her father and her mother…I was incensed…I wouldn’t let questioning of that sort continue… I tried to help this girl cope with what she went through that for years after the hearing she would go out of her way to hug me. I wouldn’t allow this disfellowshipping take place and I was very vocal about it…there are dozens of other examples…I couldn’t take it anymore..it was making me physically and mentally ill…I had to go!
This is a side of the JW's I never saw before. I left about 20 years ago and was never in one of these things... didn't do anything wrong I just left cold turkey (long story but I'm a convert). I cannot tell you how many horror stories I've heard about these over the years. I often wondered if there were any elders conflicted about these things, and I cannot express enough how much I appreciate you giving us your perspective on this.
Good for you, so glad you got out! YES, there are men/elders that feel terrible. They eventually disagree or stand up to bullying. They are then removed or leave. Unfortunately, there are many that love the power
I was a JW for 40 years from age 14 to 54. I married JW and had two sons. My eldest son had to appear before a judicial when he was 15 because he and his friend bought a packet of Durec and filled them with water. When the elders found out (I never knew how) they had to face a judicial committee and were publicly reproved. A short while after one if the elders son, who had been on the committee was pure up by police for drink driving. What happened. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Twenty years later when my son was 35 I found out he had been sexually abused by a very respected and well though of elder from 11 years to 15 years old. It came back to haunt him until a year later when he was 36 he took his own life. I just cannot forgive that cruel cult for what happened
Val, I have no words. I'm SO SORRY! Tragic doesn't cover what you have been through. There is zero consistency because it's all done by men, most of which have some pretty big demons themselves. I can't send enough love for what you've been through regarding you son. Criminal.
My first judicial committee was in the early 80s where I had been molested by my brother-in-law in my early teens. That was a horrible experience. They sided with him and I Never went to another meeting again until I was in my 40s and was talked into coming back because “so many things had changed”. Being the lonely lesbian that all gay witnesses are, I had an incident with a sister, and entered my second judicial committee, and the questioning was so intrusive and embarrassing and humiliating that I swore I would never do that again. Since I confessed, I was privately reproved. The third time I “sinned,“ was with a woman outside the organization.. I confessed again because of my conscience but I told that elder that I would not meet with them ever again because it was a very humiliating experience. They harassed me and harassed me for weeks until I finally blocked them all. That was in October 2022, and I haven’t been back to another meeting. I was pioneering. That was supposed to protect me from a lot of things but I guess it didn’t work.
I was serving as an elder in a very unpopular congregation, the COBE was called a hammer throughout the circuit, nobody thrived in our congregation, and very very few ever were appointed when the CO was visiting. According to the COBE brothers never hit the mark to serve the first time they were recommended. This was known throughout the circuit! And hardly anyone would like to attend our congregation by choice. And during judicial committees, forget it, those who supposedly sinned, their repentance wasn’t sincere enough.
Oh yes, I can relate to this. Our congregation was very popular, but had it's own set of problems. Our BOE got a lot of assembly parts due the quality of speakers, but we also seemed to be resented by other congregations. Circuits all have 'personalities'....we had a cong. like the one you were in....it was a black hole of endless controversy!
Too bad I didn’t fade from your Congregation, no one even noticed when I faded from the congregation I attended. I haven’t been out too long, but in 9 months nobody from the congregation had even attempted to call me or visit me. I’m probably better off for it. It’s probably better to be forgotten, then be remembered, and treated the same anyway.
@@ajnooneslistening6134 That is a successful 'fade', but it also is bittersweet: it shows you how little they care for people that NO ONE has tried to make sure you're okay. Embrace that freedom!!
Oh man, aren't those nightmares!! This poor person is a mess, then you have to worry about overturning your fellow elders.....a lot cops turning in cops. NIGHTMARE!
Hi everyone I just came across this channel, started the video, and went to reading the comments. I just want to say to you all how really sorry I am - I am so sorry for your experiences. I didn't, thank goodness, make it as far as baptism. Fortunately, I had prayed to ask if I was going in the right direction - and I had a couple of questions for which I am still waiting answers. These were turning points in my life, and since then, I have a very regular visitor to channels supporting those who managed to leave. And from this background, I just want to applaud you guys, and to tell you that, among so many others, I am rooting for you. I am so sorry.
I remember going to elders school. I believe it used to be every few years. Sometimes larger groups of elders. Every time there was a large portion of the school with a title such as "judging the congregation in righteousness" The janitors, window washers, part time workers, and old retired guys. Eyes would light up and ears perk up. Learning how they could use their great organizational power to beat up and bully the sheep. I am ashamed and traumatized I was ever part of this absolute nonsense.
I was extremely lucky to never get involved with a judicial comittee. I was baptized, but I had made it clear that I had no ambition to be a ministerial servant, elder or pioneer. I was content with passing the mikes once in a while....😂😂So when I left, I just mailed my letter of disassociation and stopped going to the meetings overnight. No fade, no off and on assistance. Surprisingly, no one ever came to see me, or even called...I guess they were not surprised and decided to let it go. So no JC for me. I feel deprived...(NOT!!!)
And there you go. You're soul is precious to Jehovah....until it's not. Jesus would leave the 99 sheep to retrieve the one....until he doesn't. They're hypocrites.
I'm glad it helps; hate that you're meeting with them. Trust me, you will know more than they do....they'll walk in circles. Ask questions...watch the look on their face.
I was DFd, reinstated, privately reproved, public reproved, DFd again, and reinstated again, all between 18-23 yrs old. I finally decided I just couldn't live up to the standard so I slowly faded. Over 10 years later I finally woke up. I'm still inactive, and secretly awake. I don't have the heart to tell my mom I'm now an apostate. That would kill her as she is in very delicate faith. Plus I'm honestly not ready to lose my relationship with my family as virtually all of them are very much still active. The only reason I confessed at 18 was because I twice declined being appointed MS because I had been living a double life since 14 yrs old. I was running out of reasons to turn down appointments so I decided to just confess.
James, I totally understand. I had a history too. NO NEED to tell your mother how you feel. I'm in the same situation. I never encourage anyone to lose relationship with family. Still, when reading all that you went through in 5 short years.....what a joke those elders must have been!
@@survivingparadisepodcast One thing that was weird is that there were always four elders in my judicial committees. We only had four elders in the congregation and all four participated in all of my judicial committees. I always wondered why four and not three. Also, my judicial committees always went on for many weeks with multiple meetings per week lasting 2 to 3 hours. My first jc went on for 3 months. I have heard people say their committees lasted one day or maybe two meetings. Mine always went on and on.
@@Javai7 Wow James, not surprised! For two reasons: individual congregations often start making their own 'rules'....especially rural ones. I would never ask what you did, but they will also do this if they think you're especially 'bad' or they think it's serious. But more often than not, you just got four guys doing their own thing. Again, no 'god' involved.....just guys on power trips.
@@survivingparadisepodcast my first jc was wild. For example, they asked me for a list of names so they could verify there were no JW girls involved. I refused to provide a list of names so they asked for first names only, I refused that, so they asked for initials. I refused that as well. They really didn't believe me that it was only worldly girls. That made me paranoid that maybe I had been accused by someone of being involved with witness girls. Also, the play by play they wanted on the sex was extremely detailed. I honestly kept thinking, "my elders are freakier than Howard Stern." By the way, this was in SoCal, not far from LA, not rural by any stretch. But, it was the Spanish congregation so smaller elder bodies and way more traditional than the English congregation elders. They wanted control over my wardrobe, haircuts, how i accessorized my car, and my free time. They took away my running mics and other privileges when I started weight training because it was "all vanity", and again when I took up jogging because it took time away from personal study and service, same when I took up playing the drums. I got called into the B school for forming a band with some friends from the English congregation for fun. Whatever restrictions were imposed by the Watchtower became even more strict because of traditional Mexican/Latin American culture. Even making friends in the English congregation was frowned upon because they are considered way too liberal and bad association. Our elders always criticized English congregation elders for being too permissive.
@@Javai7 UGH! That all sounds very familiar!! NO FUN ALLOWED! We had a fairly liberal congregation....even one of the elder's wives was in a band that played bars! Isn't that something? It goes to show the lack of consistency among congregations. Each congregation has it's own personality.
What other job or place in life will a person know that much about other people's lives? The hypocrisy is amazing the sheer fact a elder can disfellowship someone and be doing the same exact thing in secret. His heart will never be moved to admit anything because he's a "elder" he has the "secret book". The former elder even if dissociated will look to find other positions they can find personal information on people once again.
Great, emotional show. A couple of questions if I may. Are the elders instructed to not apologize or that they're not wrong? I only made it to ministrial servant, and was told if I wanted to step down with dignity, it would be best. I never felt worthy but that didn't stop me from trying to be an examplary publisher. Love your podcast!!!
Thanks kevinator! I went the same route that you did, was an MS for 5 years. Unbelievable that they said that to you about stepping down! On your elder question: I've never heard that instruction, but it's not a reach that many don't apologize. The 'organization' pushes position...as you know. Even the best man trying to be a good elder can get caught up in some ego. If you think they don't apologize to publishers, you should see how they treat fellow elders! I got some stories....coming up....
Kevinator in my experience in serving on different elder bodies. What I found is there is alot of arrogance for some as they join the "elite" group. I have found some men that show humility and love and will admit they made a mistake and apologize. While other men have giant egos and are never wrong. This attitude is shown to fellow elders, the congregation, and their own families. But honestly why would a group of elders ever apologize? They get their instructions and are taught by an even more "elite" group the g.b. Have you ever heard them apologize or say they are wrong? They can make terrible decisions. Ones that cause great harm to the sheep. For example organ donation, blood fractions, alternative military service, neutrality, vaccinations. They never apologize to the sheep for their errors. Normally they beat the sheep up for the mistakes written in the hundreds of thousand pages of their literature.
Thanks for the reply’s guys. I figured I was in the best place because I could help those that needed it without all the responsibility! Eventually I quit going, then had a massive stroke, wife faded followed by me. It’s been 3 years and I’ve been focused on my recovery and it’s going fantastic. I’m looking forward to more podcasts in the future!!!
The problem is, sometimes they come for you, you don't have to have gone to them. Personally, I was ratted on by someone else and once all of that was set in motion, I was a cooked goose.
Thank you so much for this. You expressing yourself like this must be like therapy for you and it is for me too. It reassures me that I made the right decision leaving the JW cult.
At least the born ins know about judicial meetings. I knew nothing of their existence until after baptism. They had the audacity to criticise confessions in the Catholic setting when it’s more reasonable than the JW set up. Knew nothing about the shunning thing either. Nowadays it’s not possible to be that ignorant
They do a very good job of downplaying all of this...until you answer 'yes' to those two questions at baptism, then they have you. You're under their power then... and a random three guys get to make the call on your future.
@@survivingparadisepodcast Indeed! Internet is ruining that strategy though which is why shunning is rammed down the JWs throat these days. They have to keep the existing ones in because there’s too much information to entice new ones in and numbers are going to drop in the so called first world where family numbers are smaller.
@@survivingparadisepodcast The amount of ex JW channels on you tube has exploded. There’s more leaks than a sieve from inside the org. Concerning elders that youth movement going to be interesting because for a man in his 20s to contribute to the cover up of CSA is prob going to be more problematic than in the past. Interesting times. Its a shame so much human collateral damage is left on the road and a horror with the realisation than we all contributed to this.
@@broncosbest6441 I noticed that as well and I couldn't be happier about it! I was skeptical whether we really needed 'another one' but here I am....I came to the conclusion that the variety of perspectives may help different people. Oh yeah....they're in trouble with this younger generation!
And i got to say, one of my biggest regrets in my entire life was actually going to the elders to speak about the unforgivable sin that i've committed of being drunk one day, cuz when i got the judicial committee, instead of wanting to talk about the drunk stuff, they started to ask for details of a sexual sin i commited when i was like, 14 yo, more than 10 years after the matter, and when i told them what i could recount, they pulled out the exact things i said that time and asked me "why you're not being truthful now?". After that committee I got really bad anxiety disorder.
:( I hate reading this....but it's SO common. I have an episode coming on the whole 'sin from years ago' subject. But I constantly tell people to ignore elders....they're nobodies....it's just hard when they're trying not to lose family
Excellent video as always. My first JC was for immorality. I was publicly reproved at the time. Funny thing was, one of the elder who sat on it was also cheating on his wife while sitting in the judgement seat. Few months later he was reproved for same conduct even though he was an habitual cheater. 2nd time when it happened I was DF but managed to successfully appeal. The appeal was only successful because the elder I got in trouble with actually couched me on what to say during the meeting. My final DF was for apostasy and it happened when I had stopped attending meetings years prior and was snitched on by so called friends as an apostate.
Isn't it something to find out these guys are doing the same thing, but have the guts to sit in judgement of someone else?? I know of several similar situations. They now have an out that I'm likely going to make an episode on......if it's in the distant past, they can just forget it and move on. I tell everyone to NEVER go to an elder.
This part of the religion makes me sooooo angry!! Thanks for unveiling what they truly are. It’s just wrong. The person in the chair all alone, especially a young woman, it’s traumatizing….. I know, I experienced it.
Wow; so many similarities. I’m just catching this podcast. I, too, was the youngest elder in my circuit (28) & was apart of a congregation that was deemed “City of Refuge” due to how warm & relaxed it was. Lol. Everything said on this podcast is 100% correct. I was chuckling b/c that’s exactly how elders respond when ask to be chosen on a case, & the vast majority have their own issues w/in their families, particularly children. Some thirst for that power, especially when a sister is involved in “wrong doing.” The ?’s that r asked have been very salacious & embarrassing at times, a ? no man should ask a woman under any circumstance, especially is a closed off, private manner. It’s something I never enjoyed, and u realize quickly how man-made everything is.
In Mat. 18 Jesus said to reveal a brother's fault between you and him ALONE. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. THE MATTER ENDS THERE. No need to involve others. No need to talk to the elders.
What need is there for a judicial meeting when you go to God in prayer. A friend ask one of her sister friend to sit in a elder meeting in her house cause if two men can sit why can’t she have someone with her who she asked to just sit don’t speak, well, this person got nervous maybe how it might look on her start to cast doubt with uninvited comments this was her best mate who knows all the problems she was having in her church erm congregation threw her under the bus as explained.
Completely man made 'arrangement'...nothing biblical about it. They won't allow witnesses or others to testify under the blanket of confidentiality. Then they spread other people's misery in private conversations. It's awful.
Thanks for sharing this religion is crazy. Do you have any ideas on how to wake people up? I have been trying for over 2 years on a few people and nothing works. So say that I can not wake them up or I can't unless they are ready. I have stuck my neck out and haven't gotten DF for Apostasy but should have been by now.
Anonymously mail them a copy of "Crisis of Conscience". They may not read it right away, or they may read a little and put it down. But eventually human curiosity will take over and they will read the whole thing.
The thought of 3 men empowered to judge an individual is so bizarre. How does it help an individual if the outcome is DFing or private/public reproof? This is just punitive and cruel.
They think that you will become so lonely from losing your entire social network that you'll return just to salvage your relationships. It works far too often, which is why so many are physically in, mentally out.
I honestly don't know why someone wants to judge other people's lives only for a position. 4 young people from my KH committed suicide one death by cop. The most tragic cry for help his father shows up next meeting like nothing happened. 🧊 I never saw love in my congregation
A woman is raped and you "privately reproved her"!!!??!!! Why did you not guide her on how to report the rape!!??? Not only for herself but to protect the next victim. Religion is the problem. As a recovering Jehovah Witness I thank all the gods when the elders called me for a "sheparding call" (even though these same elders did not give a shit about what I was going through) I told them "NO." The most powerful word I have learned post JW is NO! And you laugh through this...lives have been ruined. Ruined - do you even grasp the damage you have done to untold lives?
Yes, there is much, much more to that story and I think you're missing what drives this show: helping people AVOID and heal from all things Jehovah's Witnesses. I understand and 'feel' your pain in this comment and I in no way minimize the horrors I experienced or of others. It's extremely damaging. Laughter is part of healing, it's not meant to offend. Lives have been ruined....millions. It's EXTREMELY heavy. I have full realization of the damage done to me personally, as well as many others. If sharing these stories saves just ONE person from Jehovah's Witnesses, then it's a success. If you listen to other episodes you will see that I'm particularly interested in saving today's children from the horrific damage of this cult. I'm very, very sorry for you pain.
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I served on a case of a young person with mental illness. I was a green elder. I asked the 2 elders I was with on the jc with how can we judge a person with mental illness. I felt totally inadequate, that is the biggest understatement ever. We disfellowshipped the young man. This was the worst feeling I ever had. I felt so ashamed! Still haunts me.
Oh man ookla, I have a similar story, only the person was very elderly and smoking. I may share that story here.....still makes me sick :(
This just proves that the leadership is deceptive in leading the rank and file into believing that this CULT is loving and the elders CARE ABOUT YOU. This CULT twists what loving kindness really is. Its really MENTAL CRUELTY.
@@tammyg8031 Well said. I couldn't agree more!
@@tammyg8031 It is 100% mental abuse. And a cult.
Reach out to them
The fact that it’s done in secret, you’re not allowed to have a friend or representative with you, you’re not allowed to take notes, no audio or video recording allowed- IT IS MADNESS! There’s no transparency, honesty or love shown.
Thank you for another amazing episode 😁
There’s a channel called “watchtower history” hosted by two guys. They recently uploaded 2 recordings of an XJw who recorded the whole kangaroo court and after he is asked to leave the room he keeps recording. he appeals and records that too. More ppl need to record their farce trials and exposed this cult.
@@hustonmices3976 omg I know! For a while I was obsessed with judicial committee videos. Alt Worldly has a great one. That’s exactly what it is, a kangaroo court !
@@krissykatportal yeah, I watch his stuff. I need to check out that JC. JC or JC Jesus Christ or Judicial Committee 🤔🤔
Thank YOU for listening! There is such an aura of mystery around it,....it's ridiculous and in many cases, NOT KIND. I dealt with a lot of teenagers. It will gut you if you truly care. And I myself was a teenager who got in trouble.
I’m at 28:17 and tears are running down my face. I have panic disorder so I understand what this girl was going through. When I got disfellowshipped at 17, my judicial committee was almost identical to the one you’re describing. That was when I had my first panic attack and those 3 elders just sat there silently. The meeting was over 4 hours long because I couldn’t calm down enough to speak. Wow I haven’t thought about that experience in a long time. Unlike you, those men offered no comfort or love. I’m sure that girl will always remember your compassion during such a stressful time.
Back to the video ☺️
:( :( that makes me so SAD to read this.....SO sorry Krissy!! 17!! You were a baby!! Imagine ANYONE thinking that was loving!
💔
@@TallKulWmn1 completely understand Y'Vonna :(
Enjoyed listening to your take on a JC from the inside.
My own experience was very upsetting. I was raised a JW, and never did anything wrong. At 16, I tried to rescue my friend from a situation she got herself into. She was an elder's daughter, and a little bit wild. She was 14 and got drunk at her worldly boyfriend's place. She called me to come get her, as I had a driver's license and car. I took her home and she snuck in the back door so she could slip into her bedroom and sleep it off. That should have been the end of it. BUT, she threw up in the hallway on the way to her room and her mother found out. The next Sunday, I got called into a JC meeting. For some reason, they found a way to blame ME!! I was so angry for years afterward. I felt the injustice of it all was too much - and how my parents didn't stick up for me, etc. It upset me so much, that it made me question the whole religion. I gradually "fell away" in my early twenties.
Then, one day it hit me: That unfair treatment was actually a GIFT. It's what made me wake up.
So, don't beat yourself up too much about how you treated people in your "Judicial Committees". Maybe your treatment of them actually helped them see the religion for what it is: a cult run by men.
Excellent! Well done for using that gift wisely🕊🕊
I'm so sorry READ! I could tell dozens of similar stories. We came home one night to a friends house who's father was an elder and snuck in the house, only to walk through HIS fvomit down the hallway.....he was drunk, again! .....and he was an elder.
I can relate to the young girl with how the judicial committee reacted with no emotion to my distress. I did not have a panic attack but I was hurting and they knew that. But the worst of it was how when I left the room while they discussed my case with prayer (yeah right) I actually heard them LAUGHING more than anything else. There was LOUD laughter and I could not understand what could have possibly been so damn funny. Well when they called me back in to tell me they were disfellowshipping me, I got angry and responded with a loud voice. It was then that I realized these men never knew me and basically condemned me to death. That was 34 years ago and it still disgusts me when I think back on it. I know not all of them are as flippant and arrogant.
Glad you took your role differently than these bone heads and so many others like them
I'm literally ANGRY reading your experience!!! That is AWFUL!! Inhumane!! I didn't want to trigger anyone or upset anyone...but laughter....all too common. Most of these men are ill equipped to handle personal relationships, much less the complex problems of others. I'm so sorry rdhawk929 ...I'm glad you're out!!
Its Not scriptural..What they do, reminds me of what was done to Christ,in secret no witnesses for his defence...
I’m so sorry that happened!!! The elders can be super rude and arrogant 😢
Thanks for your information..
Thanks for listening Genesis!
My first waking up moment happened after my judicial committee & subsequent appeal. At the end of both, the lead elder offered parting words of “comfort”. The problem, both men gave the exact same speech verbatim, like they were reading from a script; turns out they were. At my lowest moment, neither could be bothered to come up with his own words. Talk about mailing it in 😠
So sorry Clyde, I've seen that scenario play out dozens of times. Canned 'words of encouragement' as people's entire world implodes. Most elders just want to get it over with ;(
Great podcast! It becomes so clear for all of us ex elders when we get out of the box. We wasted years of our lives enforcing doctrine and rules found nowhere in the Bible! The poor sheep we led.
Amen brother....it makes you wince!
I got called a few times into judicial meetings over random bullsugar. But in one of those, an elder made a pass at me. It happened so casually and in front of 3 other elders, I'm still in two minds about it quite honestly. But I remember my stomach dropping and feeling like I wanted boak ( spew).
Then he went on to start bragging about having a couple cars etc and I'm sat there like "wait...what?..." That had nothing to do with them asking why I'm so quiet.
I was in my early 20's and all those elders were late 50's and the one in his 60's for sure.
Most elders I came across were different shades of freakazoid. I think they use those meetings to perve on women and girls and guys.
Thank you for never being one of those xx
Very true Shay!! That ARE elders that are a little too interested in women ....no question about it
Serving on Judicial Committees were the single most important reason why I left this cult. Justice was never even keeled…elders who were found guilty were given slaps on the wrist..kids or women guilty of the same sins were treated much more harshly.
I’ll never forget a 16 year old girl who had to confess the sin of sleeping with multiple boys in her class…the elder leading this thing wanted her to tell us if the sex was oral, vaginal and/or anal…this in front of her father and her mother…I was incensed…I wouldn’t let questioning of that sort continue…
I tried to help this girl cope with what she went through that for years after the hearing she would go out of her way to hug me. I wouldn’t allow this disfellowshipping take place and I was very vocal about it…there are dozens of other examples…I couldn’t take it anymore..it was making me physically and mentally ill…I had to go!
An elder with real compassion, even Jesus like, are unfortunately few. So thank you for looking after our young sister. 🕊🕊
The Bible is like a musical instrument you can make it play any tune you want!
This is a side of the JW's I never saw before. I left about 20 years ago and was never in one of these things... didn't do anything wrong I just left cold turkey (long story but I'm a convert).
I cannot tell you how many horror stories I've heard about these over the years. I often wondered if there were any elders conflicted about these things, and I cannot express enough how much I appreciate you giving us your perspective on this.
Good for you, so glad you got out! YES, there are men/elders that feel terrible. They eventually disagree or stand up to bullying. They are then removed or leave. Unfortunately, there are many that love the power
I was a JW for 40 years from age 14 to 54. I married JW and had two sons. My eldest son had to appear before a judicial when he was 15 because he and his friend bought a packet of Durec and filled them with water. When the elders found out (I never knew how) they had to face a judicial committee and were publicly reproved. A short while after one if the elders son, who had been on the committee was pure up by police for drink driving. What happened. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Twenty years later when my son was 35 I found out he had been sexually abused by a very respected and well though of elder from 11 years to 15 years old. It came back to haunt him until a year later when he was 36 he took his own life. I just cannot forgive that cruel cult for what happened
Val, I have no words. I'm SO SORRY! Tragic doesn't cover what you have been through. There is zero consistency because it's all done by men, most of which have some pretty big demons themselves. I can't send enough love for what you've been through regarding you son. Criminal.
57:03 This was so powerful and a compassionate insight. Thanks for sharing your vulnerability along with the facts - all sorely needed in the world.
Thanks Tre, kinda hit me out of nowhere... thank god for therapy!
My first judicial committee was in the early 80s where I had been molested by my brother-in-law in my early teens. That was a horrible experience. They sided with him and I Never went to another meeting again until I was in my 40s and was talked into coming back because “so many things had changed”. Being the lonely lesbian that all gay witnesses are, I had an incident with a sister, and entered my second judicial committee, and the questioning was so intrusive and embarrassing and humiliating that I swore I would never do that again. Since I confessed, I was privately reproved. The third time I “sinned,“ was with a woman outside the organization.. I confessed again because of my conscience but I told that elder that I would not meet with them ever again because it was a very humiliating experience. They harassed me and harassed me for weeks until I finally blocked them all. That was in October 2022, and I haven’t been back to another meeting. I was pioneering. That was supposed to protect me from a lot of things but I guess it didn’t work.
or the tune by Queen " Another one bites the dust" when they see someone enter the 2nd school with a couple of Elders
LOL....one of my favorite childhood songs. Perfect.....it's brutally true
..so glad that I stumbled into your channel!
TRUTH!!
😎
I was serving as an elder in a very unpopular congregation, the COBE was called a hammer throughout the circuit, nobody thrived in our congregation, and very very few ever were appointed when the CO was visiting. According to the COBE brothers never hit the mark to serve the first time they were recommended. This was known throughout the circuit! And hardly anyone would like to attend our congregation by choice. And during judicial committees, forget it, those who supposedly sinned, their repentance wasn’t sincere enough.
Oh yes, I can relate to this. Our congregation was very popular, but had it's own set of problems. Our BOE got a lot of assembly parts due the quality of speakers, but we also seemed to be resented by other congregations. Circuits all have 'personalities'....we had a cong. like the one you were in....it was a black hole of endless controversy!
Too bad I didn’t fade from your Congregation, no one even noticed when I faded from the congregation I attended. I haven’t been out too long, but in 9 months nobody from the congregation had even attempted to call me or visit me. I’m probably better off for it. It’s probably better to be forgotten, then be remembered, and treated the same anyway.
@@ajnooneslistening6134 That is a successful 'fade', but it also is bittersweet: it shows you how little they care for people that NO ONE has tried to make sure you're okay. Embrace that freedom!!
Thank you for sharing your story. It's a show of great strength of your part that you're able to lay it all out there.
Thank you so much Mascherari!
Having the appearance of cleanliness and righteousness.
Things done in secret arel come to light
They always find a way
I served on an appeals committee one time! AWKWARD!
Oh man, aren't those nightmares!! This poor person is a mess, then you have to worry about overturning your fellow elders.....a lot cops turning in cops. NIGHTMARE!
Hi everyone
I just came across this channel, started the video, and went to reading the comments. I just want to say to you all how really sorry I am - I am so sorry for your experiences.
I didn't, thank goodness, make it as far as baptism. Fortunately, I had prayed to ask if I was going in the right direction - and I had a couple of questions for which I am still waiting answers. These were turning points in my life, and since then, I have a very regular visitor to channels supporting those who managed to leave.
And from this background, I just want to applaud you guys, and to tell you that, among so many others, I am rooting for you. I am so sorry.
I remember going to elders school. I believe it used to be every few years. Sometimes larger groups of elders. Every time there was a large portion of the school with a title such as "judging the congregation in righteousness" The janitors, window washers, part time workers, and old retired guys. Eyes would light up and ears perk up. Learning how they could use their great organizational power to beat up and bully the sheep. I am ashamed and traumatized I was ever part of this absolute nonsense.
KM or Elder's School was misery. Yep. "symposiums' on how to bully everyone, including what they're watching, wearing, listening to.
Me too .. freedom tastes wonderful though..😉🕊
@@Des7iny7 No doubt!
I was extremely lucky to never get involved with a judicial comittee. I was baptized, but I had made it clear that I had no ambition to be a ministerial servant, elder or pioneer. I was content with passing the mikes once in a while....😂😂So when I left, I just mailed my letter of disassociation and stopped going to the meetings overnight. No fade, no off and on assistance. Surprisingly, no one ever came to see me, or even called...I guess they were not surprised and decided to let it go. So no JC for me. I feel deprived...(NOT!!!)
And there you go. You're soul is precious to Jehovah....until it's not. Jesus would leave the 99 sheep to retrieve the one....until he doesn't. They're hypocrites.
Amazing job. I plan to use some of these points if I get hauled into a committee for my “apostate” views. So unscriptural.
I'm glad it helps; hate that you're meeting with them. Trust me, you will know more than they do....they'll walk in circles. Ask questions...watch the look on their face.
I was DFd, reinstated, privately reproved, public reproved, DFd again, and reinstated again, all between 18-23 yrs old. I finally decided I just couldn't live up to the standard so I slowly faded.
Over 10 years later I finally woke up. I'm still inactive, and secretly awake. I don't have the heart to tell my mom I'm now an apostate. That would kill her as she is in very delicate faith. Plus I'm honestly not ready to lose my relationship with my family as virtually all of them are very much still active.
The only reason I confessed at 18 was because I twice declined being appointed MS because I had been living a double life since 14 yrs old. I was running out of reasons to turn down appointments so I decided to just confess.
James, I totally understand. I had a history too. NO NEED to tell your mother how you feel. I'm in the same situation. I never encourage anyone to lose relationship with family. Still, when reading all that you went through in 5 short years.....what a joke those elders must have been!
@@survivingparadisepodcast One thing that was weird is that there were always four elders in my judicial committees. We only had four elders in the congregation and all four participated in all of my judicial committees. I always wondered why four and not three.
Also, my judicial committees always went on for many weeks with multiple meetings per week lasting 2 to 3 hours. My first jc went on for 3 months. I have heard people say their committees lasted one day or maybe two meetings. Mine always went on and on.
@@Javai7 Wow James, not surprised! For two reasons: individual congregations often start making their own 'rules'....especially rural ones. I would never ask what you did, but they will also do this if they think you're especially 'bad' or they think it's serious. But more often than not, you just got four guys doing their own thing. Again, no 'god' involved.....just guys on power trips.
@@survivingparadisepodcast my first jc was wild. For example, they asked me for a list of names so they could verify there were no JW girls involved. I refused to provide a list of names so they asked for first names only, I refused that, so they asked for initials. I refused that as well. They really didn't believe me that it was only worldly girls. That made me paranoid that maybe I had been accused by someone of being involved with witness girls.
Also, the play by play they wanted on the sex was extremely detailed. I honestly kept thinking, "my elders are freakier than Howard Stern."
By the way, this was in SoCal, not far from LA, not rural by any stretch. But, it was the Spanish congregation so smaller elder bodies and way more traditional than the English congregation elders. They wanted control over my wardrobe, haircuts, how i accessorized my car, and my free time. They took away my running mics and other privileges when I started weight training because it was "all vanity", and again when I took up jogging because it took time away from personal study and service, same when I took up playing the drums. I got called into the B school for forming a band with some friends from the English congregation for fun.
Whatever restrictions were imposed by the Watchtower became even more strict because of traditional Mexican/Latin American culture. Even making friends in the English congregation was frowned upon because they are considered way too liberal and bad association. Our elders always criticized English congregation elders for being too permissive.
@@Javai7 UGH! That all sounds very familiar!! NO FUN ALLOWED! We had a fairly liberal congregation....even one of the elder's wives was in a band that played bars! Isn't that something? It goes to show the lack of consistency among congregations. Each congregation has it's own personality.
What other job or place in life will a person know that much about other people's lives? The hypocrisy is amazing the sheer fact a elder can disfellowship someone and be doing the same exact thing in secret. His heart will never be moved to admit anything because he's a "elder" he has the "secret book". The former elder even if dissociated will look to find other positions they can find personal information on people once again.
Great, emotional show. A couple of questions if I may.
Are the elders instructed to not apologize or that they're not wrong?
I only made it to ministrial servant, and was told if I wanted to step down with dignity, it would be best. I never felt worthy but that didn't stop me from trying to be an examplary publisher. Love your podcast!!!
Thanks kevinator! I went the same route that you did, was an MS for 5 years. Unbelievable that they said that to you about stepping down! On your elder question: I've never heard that instruction, but it's not a reach that many don't apologize. The 'organization' pushes position...as you know. Even the best man trying to be a good elder can get caught up in some ego. If you think they don't apologize to publishers, you should see how they treat fellow elders! I got some stories....coming up....
Kevinator in my experience in serving on different elder bodies. What I found is there is alot of arrogance for some as they join the "elite" group. I have found some men that show humility and love and will admit they made a mistake and apologize. While other men have giant egos and are never wrong. This attitude is shown to fellow elders, the congregation, and their own families. But honestly why would a group of elders ever apologize? They get their instructions and are taught by an even more "elite" group the g.b. Have you ever heard them apologize or say they are wrong? They can make terrible decisions. Ones that cause great harm to the sheep. For example organ donation, blood fractions, alternative military service, neutrality, vaccinations. They never apologize to the sheep for their errors. Normally they beat the sheep up for the mistakes written in the hundreds of thousand pages of their literature.
@@ooklathemok7322 Well said!
Thanks for the reply’s guys. I figured I was in the best place because I could help those that needed it without all the responsibility! Eventually I quit going, then had a massive stroke, wife faded followed by me. It’s been 3 years and I’ve been focused on my recovery and it’s going fantastic. I’m looking forward to more podcasts in the future!!!
@@K-Fred Thanks kevin...please take care of yourself!! Get well!
Don't go to the elders for help. You'll get kicked out! Keep your business private
Episode incoming on a precedent for NEVER going to the elders....in print. Stay tuned!
I did once, I paid the consequences nothing loving came from theses elders. Only humiliation, shunned
@@tustazowiowao :( it's all too common, I'm so sorry
The problem is, sometimes they come for you, you don't have to have gone to them. Personally, I was ratted on by someone else and once all of that was set in motion, I was a cooked goose.
Thank you so much for this. You expressing yourself like this must be like therapy for you and it is for me too. It reassures me that I made the right decision leaving the JW cult.
Thank you Benoit, I'm so glad you're free!
Great work!
At least the born ins know about judicial meetings. I knew nothing of their existence until after baptism. They had the audacity to criticise confessions in the Catholic setting when it’s more reasonable than the JW set up. Knew nothing about the shunning thing either. Nowadays it’s not possible to be that ignorant
They do a very good job of downplaying all of this...until you answer 'yes' to those two questions at baptism, then they have you. You're under their power then... and a random three guys get to make the call on your future.
@@survivingparadisepodcast Indeed! Internet is ruining that strategy though which is why shunning is rammed down the JWs throat these days. They have to keep the existing ones in because there’s too much information to entice new ones in and numbers are going to drop in the so called first world where family numbers are smaller.
@@broncosbest6441 completely agree....it's a slow drip. The Internet is killing them.
@@survivingparadisepodcast The amount of ex JW channels on you tube has exploded. There’s more leaks than a sieve from inside the org.
Concerning elders that youth movement going to be interesting because for a man in his 20s to contribute to the cover up of CSA is prob going to be more problematic than in the past.
Interesting times. Its a shame so much human collateral damage is left on the road and a horror with the realisation than we all contributed to this.
@@broncosbest6441 I noticed that as well and I couldn't be happier about it! I was skeptical whether we really needed 'another one' but here I am....I came to the conclusion that the variety of perspectives may help different people. Oh yeah....they're in trouble with this younger generation!
Keep it up
Thanks cold, appreciate the encouragement!
And i got to say, one of my biggest regrets in my entire life was actually going to the elders to speak about the unforgivable sin that i've committed of being drunk one day, cuz when i got the judicial committee, instead of wanting to talk about the drunk stuff, they started to ask for details of a sexual sin i commited when i was like, 14 yo, more than 10 years after the matter, and when i told them what i could recount, they pulled out the exact things i said that time and asked me "why you're not being truthful now?". After that committee I got really bad anxiety disorder.
:( I hate reading this....but it's SO common. I have an episode coming on the whole 'sin from years ago' subject. But I constantly tell people to ignore elders....they're nobodies....it's just hard when they're trying not to lose family
@@survivingparadisepodcast exactly, the best is to ignore them and all their invitations to meetings, chats, calls etc. But who would do it in 15?
@@jiriovecka350 Ignore it all! :)
Excellent video as always.
My first JC was for immorality. I was publicly reproved at the time. Funny thing was, one of the elder who sat on it was also cheating on his wife while sitting in the judgement seat. Few months later he was reproved for same conduct even though he was an habitual cheater.
2nd time when it happened I was DF but managed to successfully appeal. The appeal was only successful because the elder I got in trouble with actually couched me on what to say during the meeting.
My final DF was for apostasy and it happened when I had stopped attending meetings years prior and was snitched on by so called friends as an apostate.
Isn't it something to find out these guys are doing the same thing, but have the guts to sit in judgement of someone else?? I know of several similar situations. They now have an out that I'm likely going to make an episode on......if it's in the distant past, they can just forget it and move on. I tell everyone to NEVER go to an elder.
@@survivingparadisepodcast Thanks for responding. In hindsight I’d have kept my mouth shut had I known them what I know now.
@@Charleneslife-23 my friend, in hindsight....we would all do so much different. Just glad you're out!
There are no real friends in the cult😕
@@Des7iny7 Unfortunately, you're correct :(
This part of the religion makes me sooooo angry!! Thanks for unveiling what they truly are. It’s just wrong. The person in the chair all alone, especially a young woman, it’s traumatizing…..
I know, I experienced it.
I wish my elders held me during my meeting when I had a full blown panic attack
:( I'm sorry PIMO.... most elders aren't very compassionate in that environment. It's awful.
The sin could be questioning/ having doubts...
I left and never looked back. Just blocked the elders calls! End of story.
There is ZERO reason to speak with an elder; good for you!
Happy hour time!
🍺cheers mate
Cheers Chrissy!! 🍺
Hahaha, I hope you had a cold one for me!
@@survivingparadisepodcast I most definitely did!!
Wow; so many similarities. I’m just catching this podcast. I, too, was the youngest elder in my circuit (28) & was apart of a congregation that was deemed “City of Refuge” due to how warm & relaxed it was. Lol.
Everything said on this podcast is 100% correct. I was chuckling b/c that’s exactly how elders respond when ask to be chosen on a case, & the vast majority have their own issues w/in their families, particularly children.
Some thirst for that power, especially when a sister is involved in “wrong doing.” The ?’s that r asked have been very salacious & embarrassing at times, a ? no man should ask a woman under any circumstance, especially is a closed off, private manner.
It’s something I never enjoyed, and u realize quickly how man-made everything is.
Thanks By George....great to meet another former elder that can confirm the insanity!! Glad you're out.....boy, were we young!!!
@@survivingparadisepodcast Yes, & the fact they r going even younger is absurd. It appears they r taking a page from the Church of Latter Day Saints
@@bygeorgehemayberite8385 It's so true....imagine 20 year old elders...whoa
I went through this 25:33 after being r$pe as a JW, we kick out of the religion! Panic attack in B school, they recorded me for fun!
What??? NO!!! Did they really??? That breaks my heart! :( :( I'm SO sorry Lovely!
In Mat. 18 Jesus said to reveal a brother's fault between you and him ALONE. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. THE MATTER ENDS THERE. No need to involve others. No need to talk to the elders.
Exactly. 100%. Probably would have been a really good spot for Jesus to mention the star chamber, 3 guys meeting, right? He didn't. All man made.
What need is there for a judicial meeting when you go to God in prayer. A friend ask one of her sister friend to sit in a elder meeting in her house cause if two men can sit why can’t she have someone with her who she asked to just sit don’t speak, well, this person got nervous maybe how it might look on her start to cast doubt with uninvited comments this was her best mate who knows all the problems she was having in her church erm congregation threw her under the bus as explained.
Completely man made 'arrangement'...nothing biblical about it. They won't allow witnesses or others to testify under the blanket of confidentiality. Then they spread other people's misery in private conversations. It's awful.
Thanks for sharing this religion is crazy. Do you have any ideas on how to wake people up? I have been trying for over 2 years on a few people and nothing works. So say that I can not wake them up or I can't unless they are ready. I have stuck my neck out and haven't gotten DF for Apostasy but should have been by now.
Something within themselves has to trigger their awakening.
I’m tired. I hope you understand what I’m saying!
@@Jay-yp3oq I get what you're saying bro. Rest up. 👍🏽
Anonymously mail them a copy of "Crisis of Conscience". They may not read it right away, or they may read a little and put it down. But eventually human curiosity will take over and they will read the whole thing.
@@Javai7 One of the best books a JW can ever read. And it's kind, reasonable and honest
When my sister told me the types of questions they asked her I was livid, it was perverted.
I really tried to be respectful and 'tamed it down'....but some of the questions are so over the top. There is no question it gets into disgusting.
@@survivingparadisepodcast Those guys are Sining themselves by asking such disgusting degrading questions.do they not realise that?.
1 Corinthians 4:5 must read
There are a lot of scriptures that will contradict that.
@@Eric_01 I hear you, the Bible is like an Old Violin, you have to tune it up you can play lots of songs with it PS if you know what I mean
@@Anonymous-ez6cz Exactly.
@@Eric_01 I always use that scripture 1 Corinthians 4 verse 5 to the JW online because JW think they a r e the only o n e s saved is them
@@Anonymous-ez6cz Sure. You can likely throw that at just about any religion as most believe the same.
The thought of 3 men empowered to judge an individual is so bizarre. How does it help an individual if the outcome is DFing or private/public reproof? This is just punitive and cruel.
They think that you will become so lonely from losing your entire social network that you'll return just to salvage your relationships. It works far too often, which is why so many are physically in, mentally out.
Matthew 18:17 say’s to take it to the congregation not 3 men
Yep! And that's after you speak together privately. No mention of 3 guys in the B School!
Getting emotional with you😢
I honestly don't know why someone wants to judge other people's lives only for a position. 4 young people from my KH committed suicide one death by cop. The most tragic cry for help his father shows up next meeting like nothing happened. 🧊 I never saw love in my congregation
Sadly you won't love is shown each and everyday in action in the world and not something talked about on a Tuesday and Sunday amongst (many) JW
Please change your title to - - JWs change Shun word from Disfellowship to REMOVED
Hope to see your face soon!
A woman is raped and you "privately reproved her"!!!??!!! Why did you not guide her on how to report the rape!!??? Not only for herself but to protect the next victim. Religion is the problem. As a recovering Jehovah Witness I thank all the gods when the elders called me for a "sheparding call" (even though these same elders did not give a shit about what I was going through) I told them "NO." The most powerful word I have learned post JW is NO!
And you laugh through this...lives have been ruined. Ruined - do you even grasp the damage you have done to untold lives?
Yes, there is much, much more to that story and I think you're missing what drives this show: helping people AVOID and heal from all things Jehovah's Witnesses. I understand and 'feel' your pain in this comment and I in no way minimize the horrors I experienced or of others. It's extremely damaging. Laughter is part of healing, it's not meant to offend. Lives have been ruined....millions. It's EXTREMELY heavy. I have full realization of the damage done to me personally, as well as many others. If sharing these stories saves just ONE person from Jehovah's Witnesses, then it's a success. If you listen to other episodes you will see that I'm particularly interested in saving today's children from the horrific damage of this cult. I'm very, very sorry for you pain.
You are wrong about the trials being public. You are interpreting it wrong.