Death Metal Essential bands debate with Dean Arnold of Vital Remains | LOCK HORNS (archive)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- LOCK HORNS: DEATH METAL tackles one of the biggest most influential genres on the metal family tree. Host Sam Dunn welcomes guest musician DEAN ARNOLD of Vital Remains and Primalfrost help us tear apart the old chart, update the most essential bands and answer those pressing questions like Florida vs. Sweden? and does pure DM even exist anymore? Join us LIVE on Wednesday September 21 at 5pm EST as we kick off Season 2 of Lock Horns with a big one! And don't forget: come ready to fight!
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Hey everyone! We are VERY aware of the audio issues on this show. We apologize for the technical difficulties! But we've sorted it out and thank you for your patience as we get Season 2 up and running!
BANGER hi guys love what your doing guys ! When we'll have a debate about homophobia and racism in metal I will love to see what people have to say about it !
Subtitles would be funny and cool.
I'll bare with you guys. I love the show and enjoy the format. Keep it up and keep it metal!!
I would definitely put Sadus in the death metal category
BANGERTV - All Metal Always I'm very late but MONSTROSITY!!!
The sound on this episode is fucked you know what I mean ?
Like the constant volume changes you know and the audio just dropping out some times you know what I mean ?
ya know what I mean
it's awful. they have their work cut out for them.
yes, it's shit audio. They should trying getting a couple of cans and use some string .
Mega ducK Fucked... with a knife.
Give Dean a break! He is not a TV host. He is a young death metal guitarist, that clearly has a passion for the genre.
Other than the sound probs great show!
21:24 those two comments in a row are pure gold. I love that you guys include the hater's comments. Reading them out loud just make me laught.
Dean "you know what i mean" Arnold hajaha
So many influential early bands missing: Dismember! Morgoth! Unleashed! Asphyx, Pestilence (mentioned ofc but not on the board), Agressor, Benediction, Gorefest, Merciless! (pioneers of death metal/deathrash) Convulse (Finland had an amazing DM scene back in the days).
And Entombed may have been influential world wide but it was Nihilist who really jump-started the whole Swedish Death Metal scene.
To be more specific: Entombed may have been influential but not very consistent, so i would put Nihilist and Dismember on the board instead of Entombed. Morgoth is one of the most iconic german early death metal bands. Unleashed due to their early impact and longevity. Asphyx due to their impact and status in the Dutch metal scene plus early on mixed death and doom. Pestilence for bridging proto-death thrash with actual super early death metal (remember their two first albums are from before the first DM wave of 1990-91). Agressor for being the first French extreme metal band to gain recognition from the international metal community (and signed by a international label). Benediction for being, next to Bolt Thrower, one of the biggest and earliest UK death metal acts and very prolific (5 albums, 3 EPs during the 90's). Gorefest because of their popularity = influence in the early-mid 90's. Merciless because of their inspiration on the Swedish DM-scene as well as the Norwegian BM-scene. And Convulse just for being one of the most known from one of the best and most underrated DM-scenes in the history of metal; the Finnish. Adramelech, Demilich, Rippikoulu, Demigod, Abhorrence, Funebre, Purtenance and the list goes on. Plus the best DM album of all times is Finnish; Sentenced - Shadows of Past.
Do The Mäth Sentenced 1st album is great!!!! as is Desultory!!!
WiseParanoia Early Therion, Edge of Sanity, Hypocrisy, Sentenced, Unleashed, & Morgoth were all death metal early on. And Master has always been brutal, more brutal than death to me, but Master, Possessed, and Death were the 1st 3 in American death-extreme metal.
Malevolent Creation and Broken Hope
Dude cmon you can't put that many bands on the board.
Vomitory. Most underrated Death metal band out there.
Audio is horrible, love the vid though
This is blasphemy that the subject of Swedish death metal isn't even mentioned. UNLEASHED? DISMEMBER? GRAVE?.....cmon...are you kidding me?????
entombed overshadowed them
That's fucked up man, they bailed on Unleashed, Dismember, & Grave. The true Death Metal.
They spend too much time blowing Cookie Monster vocals from the northeast
This is my new favourite metal channel. Great production value (with the occasional hiccup obviously), great knowledge and interviews are fantastic
Thanks Brennan! Welcome! \m/\m/
I agree with adding a Tech-Death branch for Gorguts, but make sure you put them at the TOP.
LOTS of bands to put on top with them :).
nah
These genre tags get a little over-bearing. We don't need a sub-category for Oldschool Slovakian Technical Death Metal with a D-beat influence and duel harmonica leads.
sure we do
It's a joke,pal
Yeah but not adding the main sub genres death metal has spawned would n't be an accurate depiction of the music. Things like Tech Death, Deathcore, Slam, Deathgrind, Blackend Death, Melodic Death ect have been huge movements in metal and deserve to be on there.
FUCK IT.....i just call it all death metal and i either like it or i don't....screw all these crazy subgenres...all they do is create cliques
TheFujac So would I,fujak can't we stop using these seperataions?
Sam, you called "The Erosion of Sanity" EDGE of Sanity AGAIN! You did it in the interview with Luc Lemay, too. Are you sure you shouldn't be bringing Dan Swano onto the show?
Lol I noticed that too.
Elements: Guttural vocals, blast beats, chugging low riffs, atonal guitar solos. And of course, DEATH.
The irony of Death, the band, is that they became the least death metal of death metal. Although they undoubtedly invented it, they diverged and became much more melodic in the guitars than Death Metal is known to be.
You mean what death Metal was hijacked to become by those less skilled at song writing?
whether they wanted to be called it or not, CARCASS were HUGELY influential to Death Metal and should be on here
Entombed? Dismember? Cryptopsy? There are a lot of influential bands missing.
53min Cryptopsy is there... :)
I didn't make it that far yet ;) I had to do some work today as well.
Entombed is also there, no Dismember though.
For shame.
DISMEMBER!
Dismember, Entombed, Bloodbath, Grave and Unleashed derseve to be on list
But... did he really know what he meant?
Ahhaahahahhahahahahhaha
😄
you should have sticked that shirt to the board
So how many times during this video he said "you know"?
I get the feeling he's rather nervous you know what I mean ?
There needs to be a Swedish death metal branch. The 1987-1993 Swedish death metal scene was was unique and deserves recognition as a subgenre. There would be more than enough bands to put on the list and a defining sound that differs from other death metal.
Fuck yeah, The Gryphon. Playing there this weekend.
Pray tell; where IS the Banger bar? I would love to come in and have a beer and watch this live.
I can watch live from work. I can watch live from home. But, it's real hard to watch live from my car while stuck in rush hour traffic at 5:00. Especially with limited data. :(
audio is very quiet and mono, other than that great job
As a show about music i would really like if they show some love for the sound, for example fire sound engineer guy
it gets fixed a bit into the show!
And gets broken again few times, almost every episode has some sound problems...
jeps microphones not fit!!
Top of the food chain: Possessed. They coined the term and influenced Chuck. Listen to the riffs on Seven Churches and Beyond the Gates, then listen to Mantas and early Death.
love watching your videos Sam, all your documentaries were fantastically made, i'm a metalhead myself and this episode is my favourite as Death is my favourite Death Metal Band :) thank you so much
Thanks man!
Just add Hypocrisy and you've got your list.
I think they were on the Melodic Death Metal chart
First two albums for sure. Later works are Melodic, similarly to Kataklysm. One of my favourites though!
I was actually very surprised that no one mentioned Vital Remains as a influential death metal band
Malevolent Creation, Damn It
MALEVOLENT CREATION! !!!!!!!
Fuck those racist degenerates
If there was a band that wrote songs about rape& the frontman was a rapist..I 'd hate that band for those two reasons !
Rape also doesn't belong in metal ! Jerry,you really must hate women fofr you to say that!
+Andrasté Reminiec take this shit OUT of metal and back to fucking tumblr you parasites
+Jerry Craine fuck off back to tumblr with this shit
+Gluteus Enthusiast tumblr called, it's missing one of it's lobotomised herd.
As always, your selection is very centered around the American scene, so I'd suggest some European bands that are crucial to the genre and should be concidered in my opinion:
1. If you choose Entombed, you have to choose Dismember too
2. Asphyx!
3. Benediction!
4. Carcass!
5. Morgoth
Optional:
6. Gorefest
7. Grave
8. Unleashed
9. Dissection (They have to be mentioned, and they belong more to dm than to bm)
Additional American bands:
1. Master / Death Strike
2. Atheist
3. Malevolent Creation
Gorefest too!
47:55 Lol! I was zooming in and out trying to read that logo for so long... 😂
nercophagia is a band I want to see in the tree as well as grave dismember unleashed pestilence asphyx sinister vital remain but with nercophagia is important that they are still together for over 30 years and still release albums yearly. as for possessed im sorry guy I would put them the list with venom, bathory, mercyful fate, hellhammer, Celtic frost, sarcofago and all those early influential black metal. black metal bands praise on possessed as well so I want to see them with hellhammer as well
+Mike Araya What dam that is great jealous of you. yeah everyone should praise on nercophagia
Possessed, Necrophagia, Master, Death first 4 DM bands
Your souls are doomed to rot in hell for eternity for not even mentioning MASTER. No forgiveness for such an absurd flaw. All respect and praise to Paul Speckman.
Vorgok Official abomination as well!
Got a tip from a friend regarding this channel. Have soon seen all episodes. As a music nerd myself of many Metal genres I think that I have found heaven....or hell.....or a castle ;) Great work and I hope there is many episodes to come. Cheers from Sweden.
Welcome Michael!
I am so happy that they finally did this episode!
Such an awesome episode. I know most of the bands mentioned but not many of their album names and such and having such a wealth of knowledge from you both is so awesome. I love your shows, so awesome.
Are you fucking kidding me you bring a guy from Vital Remains and you don't even mention his band?
Lord Christopher agreed
Sound is all over the place when the camera switches, keeps shifting left to right and back.
FFS, just use the one camera that actually has decent audio.
Master should definitely be on the list Paul Speckmann is a legend.
Michael Barry Master should be at the top with Possessed.
Guys need to work on the audio-keeps fading and cutting out.
Sam Dunn, I totally appreciate what you're doing, and realize that you love this music as much as we do. Thanks, man.
Death Metal and all the genres in general in Heavy Metal are and always will reinvent itself.
Really enjoyed this show.. the audio.. yeah it was quiet (I have a vol) but also digital clipped a bit during loud moments. Sort that out and overall it'll be a great weekly metal show.. satiating my That Metal Show withdrawal ;) Looking forward to see you cover other genres! Cheers
There are two logos I can't read still. The one at the very bottom and the one under Nile. Any help?
wouldn't be a lock horns episode without technical difficulties!
ENTOMBED need to be on the chart because they were one of pioneers of Stockholm Swedish Death Metal
Really like Deans input on this video. Keep up the great videos guys!
You blatantly forgot Brutality, Malevolent Creation, Grave, Asphyx, Krabathor, Immolation, Morta Skuld, Carnage
dacoda666 Broken Hope and Benediction also smmfff.....
No offense Sam, but you need a split screen setup, half for the board and the other half for Lisa, because she is smokin'. Great show other than the audio. See ya next week! \m/
please make a topic for
Brutal Death Metal
and Slam Death Metal
Slam is fucking garbage
Here’s a quick list for both of those:
That was easy
really enjoyed this episode, but I feel there are two glaring omissions you guys left out! Carcass, and Repulsion. Yes, both of these bands are on the grindcore tree, but I feel they deserve a place here too. Repulsion were influencing death metal as far back as 1984 with the stench of burning death demo! yes it is grind, but even chuck schuldiner was so influenced by it he flew them down to florida and tried them out for the band. look it up. Carcass are definitely a grind band as well, but Necroticism and Heartwork have had as much influence on death metal as left hand path, or legion! Heartwork is the birth of melodeath
Floridian & Swedish death metal can coexist. on this chart...
it's still death, where the band(s) come from doesn't really matter
Great show! good to see you back!
This show is so awesome that I put up with the terrible audio and still listend to it. :p
Thanks man! We had some real troubles with the audio on some of these live streams and appreciate your patience!
Nice job Dean. Look forward to your next Primalfrost project.
Suffocation,Nile,Dying Fetus and Cryptopsy should go on technical death metal debate and Necrophagia,Dismember,Malevolent Creation and Unleashed could be put on their places.
i never saw MALEVOLENT CREATION on that list!!!!!! THE TEN COMMANDMENTS and RETRIBUTION are to two amazing albums!!
Maybe I'd be a good Idea to get mics for sam and the guests. The reverb is kinda trash.
Love the list.. missed a few but awesome and intertaining debate/conversation.
Asphyx!
no malevolent creation? Master? Dismember?
many big influential bands are not there like Benediction, Dismember, Master, Gorefest, Pungent Stench, Unleashed, Malevolent Creation, Hypocrisy, Napalm Death, Carcass, Sinister, Atheist, Pestilence, Messiah, Vital Remains, Brutality, Morgoth, Cadaver, Edge Of Sanity, Carbonized, Macabre and others...
Though it has no vocalist, Conquering Dystopia is making its way. Best instrumental Death Metal around for sure!
audio bugs are really disheartening :/
What would be really useful is a bunch of smaller stickers for related genres, so you could place Possessed at the death metal chart, but putting it slightly near a small thrash metal sign. That way you could sorta organize crossover genres.
Vezonmodder Possessed should be above the top...the are tied for 1st with Hellhammer. I bought both of these bands 1st vinyls and Venom's BLACK METAL when they 1st came out and all sent chills up my spine, esp. with headphones!!!!
Cant believe they never got monstrosity on there, they were and definitely are one of the most influential.
Yes, Dean...
I know what you mean!
But do you really?
No Master? Paul Speckmann is a fucking pioneer, damn it
Death, Carcass, Morbid A, Entombed, Nile
Sam a question...What is the objective of the current chart. To chart the few bands that started a genre or to chart the important bands within a genre? You said multiple times in this show "what about new bands?". Yet when newer bands were mentioned you said they weren't influential enough and none made the chart. So when all was said and done your chart for Death Metal only had 15 ++year old bands. Does that mean the genre stopped or all bands making Death Metal today aren't worth listening to?
I would hope to be able to watch Lock Horns and by the end of an episode know who started a genre and what bands best define said genre up until today.
If there is no one today making a difference in said genre should you change that branch of the chart let alone give the genre a episode of Lock Horns.
Love seeing Lisa ,what a stunner, still hate the bell... I'd want my $ back for the goat sign the show is LOCK HORNS and they ain't doing that
Love your work!!! hope to catch the live show tomorrow...\m/
Ha. Thanks Liam. Well, it's tricky. You gotta earn a spot on that board! We're looking for the most essential and influential, and nobody wishes there were more new bands that qualified for that than us!
Love the new set. It feels more natural, but the audio is all over the place. Sometimes it's not even in stereo.
As a clarification, breakdowns originate in NYHC with Cro-Mags. A lot of NY death metal bands were listening to hardcore (and vice versa)
How did Carcass, Dismember, and Unleashed not even get mentioned?
Glad to see the show back and the new set and new board look pretty dope, but you guys really need to step up sound-game. Why are there separate audio tracks for every camera angle? Record the audio individually as a single track and then sync it with the camera changes. I get that might be hard to do with a live show, but maybe the extra angles aren't worth it yet. Also, that far-away angle from the right is a little too skewed to work as as your master shot and it obscures a lot of band logos. Maybe a tighter frame on that one might look better. Just some thoughts. Happy to see the show in full swing again.
Mortician?
I know CARCASS was highly mentioned in the grindcore episode, but I dare to include them in the death metal branch too, the best part of the new show is we can see Liisa Ladouceur!!!! at least for some seconds
Carcass, Obituary, Cannibal Corpse, Experiment Fear ( I was drummer on Assuming The Godform album and this band Jeff Loomis was in before Nevermore back in Wisconsin ), Grave, Pestilence, Morbid Angle, Napalm Death, Entombed, Suffocation, Broken Hope, Unleashed, Deicide, Death.......
awesome. keep it up Banger!
*shared
Maybe they forgot they did the Melodic Death Metal episode? Amon Amarth and The Black Dahlia Murder are already on that list.
Spheres of Madness is from Nihility, not Winds of Creation.
Possessed album 2018 !!
No Sororicide? Please don't forget to review Inquisition 's Bloodshed Across the Empyrean altar beyond the celestial zenith.
I put pause to Massacre's influential album From Beyond to watch this video
Can we push the wide shot in a little bit? It's almost wide for just two people. I know you guys will fix the audio issues.
If it ain't broke...
Malevolent creation
farley john And Hate Plow!
STOP CALLING AMON AMARTH VIKING METAL! THEY ARE MELODIC DEATH METAL ONLY! They merely have viking THEMES! There's a difference here!
Yes, you right!
@@josedias1387 of course I,m right! It's common knowledge among metallers!
A single audio source is sufficient (probably figured that out by now!) Making your (our haha) lives harder switching audio with each angle. Kinda unwatchable, but I really wanna watch...
Wow what an awesome show!
Tried to watch but the audio is horrible!
Love the new board and Logo! T-shirt in the works?
I would not put Entombed on there without also including Dismember. Dismember came out at the same time, were just as influenced and stayed truer to their sound over the long haul.
Also I would put Repulsion on there for being early and influential. Repulsion were a huge influence on Autopsy, Nihilist (later became Entombed), Carcass, Napalm Death etc... Those bands in their early days often cited Repulsion as an influence.
Banger tv, Sam Dunn, I cannot believe You guys didn't mention carcass. But I get it, you're Live on-air with a guest. but it should have been already on the board. I'd really like to know if in hindsight, you realized, in my opinion, such an obvious mistake. I believe they are essential and influential with a very unique sound x 2. You know what I mean?
Sound!!, it's much more fun watching, when the sound isn't fucked.
My favourite metal genre..Death Metal is brutal riffs and deep guttural vocals..simple!! DM has the best riffs in metal history.. And no limitation on song topics..(gore, religion, politics, spiritual etc..)..love all bands on the list..some absentees are Sinister(favourite,best European death metal band..there album diabolical summoning and Hate stand up with the best), Broken Hope( bowels of repugnance, loathing).
where the hell is dismember, sinister, grave, unleashed
can somebody educate me on what death and roll is!? any bands or songs that you recomend?
I'm also not an expert on this genre. Also difficult to give a definition (mix of death metal and rock 'n' roll?). But I would guess an example of this type of music is TNT by Six Feet Under. Am I right about this?
Wolverine blues ep by entombed
Here is my massive comment (made pre-show on the Facebook). Thoughts?:
As far as Possessed, I’d put them as proto-death metal - above the genre. Sure, they had a song that shared a name with the then-to-be-realized genre and had its trademark vocal style, but it didn’t fully resemble death metal as we came to know it.
Pure death metal was realized with Death. The impressive part is that, although Chuck Schuldiner and crew essentially launched the genre with their early material, they continued to expand their sound and the possibilities of what death metal could include and be.
I would take out Six Feet Under. Simply put, no one would care if Barnes hadn’t been in Cannibal Corpse. The music is nowhere near as good or influential, nor are his vocals.
I’d also take out Amon Amarth. They’re more leaning toward melodic death metal, and they simply don’t have the influence required to be on here. They’re certainly not bad, but they don’t belong.
I would take out Kataklysm and replace them with Cryptopsy to keep up the CanCon. Cryptopsy brought vocals and drumming to new extremes with Lord Worm and Flo Mounier.
Morbid Angel belong; they’re the ABCs of death metal, literally. ‘Altars of Madness,’ ‘Blessed Are the Sick’ and ‘Covenant’ helped write the book. Even ‘Domination’ rules, though I’ve had dissenting voices when I’ve brought that up. Everything else (minus the last album) is still good, even if not on quite the same level.
Deicide brought a danger most associated with black metal into death metal. Glen Benton is a maniac, with his dual vocals bringing to mind Satan, whom he referenced explicitly in his lyrics. Plus all of his antics (branding an upside-down cross in his forehead, demanding Roadrunner’s Monte Conners “sign us, you fucking asshole,” etc.).
Cannibal Corpse are the quintessential death metal band. Relocating from Buffalo to Florida really illustrated the budding scene down there, with which they fit in easily. Their name and lyrics embody the genre, and the music grew in technicality over time. Plus the ‘Ace Ventura’ cameo sent the world (and Tipper Gore) into a death metal frenzy - be it positive or negative.
To me, Obituary embody the old-school death metal sound. While many other bands went more technical, they always had a good focus on groove. ‘Slowly We Rot’ and ‘Cause of Death’ are untouchable, and John Tardy’s vocals always had a desperation in them, like we was being tortured, really adding to the atmosphere.
Autopsy took groove one step further and helped birth death/doom. They helped pioneer gore lyrics and undoubtedly deserve to be here, both for that and expanding the tempo possibilities of the genre.
Vader are one of the most consistent bands in the genre, and in my opinion one of the best at blinding speed. They have shorter songs than many of their contemporaries and blast through them to great effect.
Dying Fetus walk the line between technicality and slam so well that their collision arrives at a perfect death metal medium. Plus they birthed Misery Index. Jason Netherton deserves to be in this list no matter what; he even wrote a book about death metal!
I could take or leave Nile. They came a bit later and their influence was primarily in the more technical end of the spectrum. They are likely the only band who sings so much about Egypt though. Quality songs, just wondering if they were early enough to influence pure death metal or if their late blossoming meant they helped highlight its more technical side (therefore belonging on another chart).
I’d add the other quintessential “I” death metal band: Incantation. ‘Onward to Golgotha’ is untouchable and was just darker than what was coming out at that time -helping birth the cavernous death metal that Canada is pumping out these days (Mitochondrion, Auroch, Phobocosm, etc.). The already-included “I” band definitely deserves to be there. Immolation were similarly dark, and it’s worth noting that both bands came from the northeast part of the USA, where worse weather might have darkened their disposition compared to sunny Florida.
Suffocation need to be in. They basically invented the slam riff, which would be characteristic of the genre’s heavier parts and inspire a whole new generation of kids to get into death- music, with the deathcore explosion it helped birth years later.
Bolt Thrower are a noteworthy omission. They just announced their disbandment, and I think the reaction to that speaks volumes. The only Warhammer-inspired metal band to matter and consistent pushers of pure death metal that never wavered in quality.
I think Swedish Extreme Metal should have been melodic death metal, opening the doors on this one for Entombed and Dismember on this list, as the Stockholm sound is much more pure death metal than what came out of Gothenburg. Plus we got the HM-2 sound from Sunlight Studios! (I have since been corrected that they did indeed change the original branch...I had forgotten since watching the episode)
Malevolent Creation have a similar path to the more popular Cannibal Corpse, in that they were a Buffalo band who moved to Florida. I feel like they’re a pure death metal band who were unfairly passed on (as far as popularity…influence they earned their place with their 1991 release launching them onto the scene early) in favour of some bands who took off more. They’re consistent and never really swayed from what they do best. They are rumoured to have broken up, which is undoubtedly a huge hit to the genre, though their inclusion of a horrible derogatory racist term in a song sours their legacy.
I’d argue Bloodbath deserve a place on the tree for reinvigorating an interest in the old-school sound with a new generation. The pedigree of the players, plus their names and roles in the metal scene as a whole, really served as a platform from which to shout.
An argument could be made for Dethklok furthering the introduction of the genre to outsiders, though musically they didn’t really serve
Pure death metal definitely does exist these days in the form of old-school appreciators like Gatecreeper, Scorched, Outer Heaven (albeit more doomy), etc.