I have a new 2023 WRX base model. I was planning to get COBB, but this review changed my mind. Based on this review, I will get JB4 over COBB. For me, maintaining the warranty will out weight all other factors. It is a no brainer. Thank you so much for the review.
The warranty is just as much out the window with JB4 as the accessport. It just makes it a bit harder for them to figure it out. Don't buy either unless you are prepared to give up the drivetrain warranty.
@@blindsay I’ve personally confirmed myself. I got warranty work done after having a JB4 on and had no issues at all. Also there are several other accounts of this as well. The JB4 is a piggy back system so once you unplug there is no trace of it. Example: I was running Map 3 from the JB4 which was +6 PSI over stock. On my JB4 that was showing as 18 PSI which is accurate to how much PSI I was actually running. The car however shows +12 PSI on the dash board, so from the cars perspective everything is still stock
@@atumanov55 you got lucky, that's all. If you get caught, Subaru is well within their right to deny a claim for anything along the drivetrain for either jb4 or Cobb.
Modified stock ECUs have always been the way to go for basic tuning.... which is what 99% of users need. Add on to that the COBB performs better and doesn't need hacking around with underhood wire harnesses and the choice is clear.
There is the idea of whether you want to void your warranty or not. Of course the access port is overall better than the jb4 but these are brand new cars and a lot of people want to preserve their warranty. Me personally, I want to wait till around 30,000 miles before I actually flash the ecu. Until then, the jb4 works fine for me and I'm very happy with the increase of power.
@@frankiecastillo7016 interested in buying the jb4 for a 2023 wrx. Can you update your experience? I'd like to have more data about the jb4. They seem very responsive on the forum, and it seems decently customizable.
🔥Great video, thank you for the explanation of the fuel ratios from the JB4 to the Cobb. Seems like the Cobb is the better value. Safer and much easier for any mechanics skill level to install. Keep the content coming.
So id like to add a couple things GrimmSpeed did not mention. As @Dylan VB WRX stated, you can fully adjust the tune (timing not included, the Cobb wins here obviously) and dial it in to exactly what you want it to be. So being the Cobb being "safer", well like always will depend on the tune at the end of the day. But other things to note, the JB4 can work in tandem with a Cobb AP, I know, many will ask why would that be needed with a pro tune, well Burger is working on bringing 5th injector control to the JB4. Which will open up options for those who need that boost in fuel, or maybe even just want to set it up similar to Toyotas set ups to get that valve cleaning benefit. GrimmSpeed mentions the JB4 Flex Fuel Kit, but it REALLY needs to be emphasized that it is NOT like the Cobb Flex Fuel Kit people know and love. The Burger one is strictly to monitor E content. It does not allow the maps to change based on that content like the Cobb one did/does. So IMO, it should not be called a Flex kit until it allows that. IF it ever will. But again as GS said, the biggest selling point to me until I've paid off or run out of warranty is that warranty retention. We have found through a couple cases now with dealer trips in the community once removed it was not detected. As well as an engineer in the reddit sub saying that Subaru does not have the same built in abilities BMW added to their ECUs to detect JB4s. With them now being on the WRX platform, new models MAY get revisions for this, pending the WRX sticks around. Thats a whole different discussion. End of the day both are fantastic options based on what you want. But the primary factor would be, care about the warranty? JB4. Dont care? Cobb AP.
Awesome video ❤🎉good to see the wrx still strong at the end of the year with the new model hope my wrx last 2023 lots of work but Good Motivation here on your channel thanks and happy early new year🎉
That Cobb tune is outperforming the JB4 through pretty much the whole run. It is running super rich though. The FA24 in my 22 BRZ runs a 13:1 AFR bone stock in my baseline runs. May not want to run that lean with the turbo car, but 11:1 is leaving lots of room to improve.
I wish they would have responded to my offer to help dial in the JB4 and make more power. Maybe they can reach out and compare my custom map to their custom AP map.
Pretty weird how they only got 245 whp with the jb4… seems like a set up if you ask me. The 93 map has been proven to be faster than the Cobb ots from when you and Joey did pulls.
@@DarkWolfWRX I really wanted to do a fair comparison. I was planning on getting their AFR in the mid 11's run 23-24 psi and show them what it can do. Maybe one day they will care enough to reach out.
I’m here to say, I’ve seen Cobb reply to users stating that if it has been successfully unmarried from the vehicle. There is 0 trace left on the ECU. Subaru supposedly doesn’t have some mystical black box that counts how many times the vehicle has been flashed. But they do have a key cycle/ignition cycle counter. Feel free to chime in with any other info you may have.
After speaking with a few mechanics at my Subaru, this is completely false. They can absolutely tell regardless of any tricks you try to do for the Cobb. You just have to full send it if you decide to go with that option.
I am using the JB4 on my WRX. This is the second car I have used a jb4 on. After adjusting the fuel bias and open loop the afr is solid 11.5 to 12 for me. I would be interested to see this comparison again with a slight adjustment to the JB4. I'm aware this defeats the purpose of the out of box comparison but it would be interesting.
So do you need to leave the Cobb plugged in the whole time or program and unplug if you want, also can you set the tune back to stock before the dealership visit, I use to do that with one of my mustangs
I haven’t seen warranty claims denied strictly due using a Cobb AP by itself. If there are other mods like CAI, downpipe, exhaust, etc it makes it harder for the dealer to argue on the customers behalf because it shows a higher potential for abuse. Now it does depend on the dealer itself though.
@@DylanVBWRX I’ll have to check it out. I’m not on Reddit often. I asked the dealer when we bought our Ascent about the Cobb AP and they had no issue with it regarding warranty claims. Granted that’s a bit different than a WRX since they driven harder than a 3 row SUV most of the time.
@@cpftank09 you also have to remember that what a service writer tells you when nothing is wrong may be different than when your engine goes. Which would they rather a set flat rate from Subaru or three times the shop time and double the labor rate they can charge when it’s denied.
@@DylanVBWRX I completely understand what you’re saying. Has there been an abnormal amount of engine failures with the FA24? I have only seen a couple reports of it in the Ascent and OB communities, all stock too. But if there is just a component failure, the AP shouldn’t cause any issues.
COBB has betrayed the tuner community and chose to align themselves with the liberal/democrat/left agenda. I think we're going to start seeing more tuners boycotting companies like COBB and make way for more new companies to come in the name of freedom and not want to limit how we choose to tune our cars. Im personally waiting and im sure many more for that company to pop up to support all the way. Thats where I would feel good about spending my hard earned money.
Cobb is gonna do what’s in their best interest. If you agree or disagree. If u don’t feel your hard earned money should be spent on it, there are plenty of other options and fabrication set ups that could be made
What makes you think the tuner community isn't politically diverse? Some tuners are republican, some tuners are democrat, some tuners don't vote at all why do you have to bring politics into this?
What specifically has COBB done? I'm new to the WRX game so I really don't know. I'm sure both Fed and State EPAs (Especially my state of CA) have their boots on the the throats of ALL aftermarket parts suppliers. 😡
...do you live in California or one of the 13 states that follow CARB regs?...regardless of what side the EPA is on, Cobb wants to remain in business and serve the car community so they are going to do what is necessary to avoid fines and other penalties. With your train of thought, EVERY car manufacturer has aligned with the "left" and makes cars that conform to (overreaching) government controls. If you don't like Cobb's decision, I encourage you to start your own business and sell products/services deemed illegal by the federal government. Let me know how it goes. 😕
@@jedwin4816 There’s really no drama here. Cobb simply complied with the EPA earlier this year, and it’s not like they had a choice. Look up their “Greenspeed update” for more information. The EPA cracked down on multiple tuner shops and sued them for thousands to millions of dollars because they were selling devices that allow the deletion/disabling of emissions compliance equipment, which is very illegal. In Cobb’s case, their tunes were literally capable of disabling emissions equipment on at least the WRX and GTR, and also disabling the CELs thrown when the emissions equipment was disabled/removed. Cobb was caught red handed and had no choice but to comply, leave the tuning business, or face catastrophically large fines. In reality, Cobb actually stood up for the enthusiast community by fully cooperating with the EPA in a professional manner, which led to them coming up with a compromise that allowed them to continue selling tuning devices and software as long as they removed the ability to disable emissions components and warning lights. In addition to the tuning parts and software, Cobb has also taken it a step further by re-engineering many of their bolt-on performance parts and having them 50-state emissions certified. Now we can still tune and modify our cars without breaking the law. The only people trying to make this into a political thing are either grossly misinformed, or they have a blatant agenda that has nothing to do with modifying cars. I suggest ignoring them.
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I have a new 2023 WRX base model. I was planning to get COBB, but this review changed my mind. Based on this review, I will get JB4 over COBB. For me, maintaining the warranty will out weight all other factors. It is a no brainer. Thank you so much for the review.
The warranty is just as much out the window with JB4 as the accessport. It just makes it a bit harder for them to figure it out. Don't buy either unless you are prepared to give up the drivetrain warranty.
@@blindsay False
@@atumanov55 keep telling your that
@@blindsay I’ve personally confirmed myself. I got warranty work done after having a JB4 on and had no issues at all. Also there are several other accounts of this as well. The JB4 is a piggy back system so once you unplug there is no trace of it. Example: I was running Map 3 from the JB4 which was +6 PSI over stock. On my JB4 that was showing as 18 PSI which is accurate to how much PSI I was actually running. The car however shows +12 PSI on the dash board, so from the cars perspective everything is still stock
@@atumanov55 you got lucky, that's all. If you get caught, Subaru is well within their right to deny a claim for anything along the drivetrain for either jb4 or Cobb.
COBB ANXIETY PORT IS BACK!
Modified stock ECUs have always been the way to go for basic tuning.... which is what 99% of users need. Add on to that the COBB performs better and doesn't need hacking around with underhood wire harnesses and the choice is clear.
There is the idea of whether you want to void your warranty or not.
Of course the access port is overall better than the jb4 but these are brand new cars and a lot of people want to preserve their warranty. Me personally, I want to wait till around 30,000 miles before I actually flash the ecu. Until then, the jb4 works fine for me and I'm very happy with the increase of power.
@@frankiecastillo7016 interested in buying the jb4 for a 2023 wrx. Can you update your experience? I'd like to have more data about the jb4. They seem very responsive on the forum, and it seems decently customizable.
🔥Great video, thank you for the explanation of the fuel ratios from the JB4 to the Cobb. Seems like the Cobb is the better value. Safer and much easier for any mechanics skill level to install. Keep the content coming.
The one thing that they leave out is you can adjust all those metrics I'm running 22 psi 11.5 AFR all the way across the board.
So id like to add a couple things GrimmSpeed did not mention. As @Dylan VB WRX stated, you can fully adjust the tune (timing not included, the Cobb wins here obviously) and dial it in to exactly what you want it to be. So being the Cobb being "safer", well like always will depend on the tune at the end of the day.
But other things to note, the JB4 can work in tandem with a Cobb AP, I know, many will ask why would that be needed with a pro tune, well Burger is working on bringing 5th injector control to the JB4. Which will open up options for those who need that boost in fuel, or maybe even just want to set it up similar to Toyotas set ups to get that valve cleaning benefit.
GrimmSpeed mentions the JB4 Flex Fuel Kit, but it REALLY needs to be emphasized that it is NOT like the Cobb Flex Fuel Kit people know and love. The Burger one is strictly to monitor E content. It does not allow the maps to change based on that content like the Cobb one did/does. So IMO, it should not be called a Flex kit until it allows that. IF it ever will.
But again as GS said, the biggest selling point to me until I've paid off or run out of warranty is that warranty retention. We have found through a couple cases now with dealer trips in the community once removed it was not detected. As well as an engineer in the reddit sub saying that Subaru does not have the same built in abilities BMW added to their ECUs to detect JB4s. With them now being on the WRX platform, new models MAY get revisions for this, pending the WRX sticks around. Thats a whole different discussion.
End of the day both are fantastic options based on what you want. But the primary factor would be, care about the warranty? JB4. Dont care? Cobb AP.
Thanks for watching!
❤we need a “walk around” with a spec talk! That would be a great video. I’m digging it!
Awesome video ❤🎉good to see the wrx still strong at the end of the year with the new model hope my wrx last 2023 lots of work but Good Motivation here on your channel thanks and happy early new year🎉
That Cobb tune is outperforming the JB4 through pretty much the whole run. It is running super rich though. The FA24 in my 22 BRZ runs a 13:1 AFR bone stock in my baseline runs. May not want to run that lean with the turbo car, but 11:1 is leaving lots of room to improve.
STI runs 10.4 all the way been stock
I wish they would have responded to my offer to help dial in the JB4 and make more power. Maybe they can reach out and compare my custom map to their custom AP map.
Pretty weird how they only got 245 whp with the jb4… seems like a set up if you ask me. The 93 map has been proven to be faster than the Cobb ots from when you and Joey did pulls.
@@McRex203 yeah man it's very odd I offered to help you can dial everything in, in under an hour.
@@DylanVBWRX Ive reached out to GS a few times before and they dont really seem to interact all too much sadly.
@@DarkWolfWRX I really wanted to do a fair comparison. I was planning on getting their AFR in the mid 11's run 23-24 psi and show them what it can do. Maybe one day they will care enough to reach out.
@@DylanVBWRX Seeing as they outright said the AP is their preferred platform, I doubt the JB4 will get much more mention on their channel.
About time we got to see the 22wrx.
You need to learn how to dial in the fuel trims on the jb4. You can get an AFR curve that's just as stable...
100% I said this on their last video and even offered to help them dial it in .
I’m here to say, I’ve seen Cobb reply to users stating that if it has been successfully unmarried from the vehicle. There is 0 trace left on the ECU. Subaru supposedly doesn’t have some mystical black box that counts how many times the vehicle has been flashed. But they do have a key cycle/ignition cycle counter.
Feel free to chime in with any other info you may have.
There are multiple other metrics your ECU can see how many times it's been flashed, key turns, max boost exceeding stock perimeters.
After speaking with a few mechanics at my Subaru, this is completely false. They can absolutely tell regardless of any tricks you try to do for the Cobb. You just have to full send it if you decide to go with that option.
Fresh out of the womb in 2005 jeez
It’s frustrating when they compare yet you can user adjust you jb4 and make it much richer yet alone the added benefits !
1000% there's so much more you can do with it as proven on my channel custom JB4 Map vs Cobb AP OTS JB4 is faster all day.
I am using the JB4 on my WRX. This is the second car I have used a jb4 on. After adjusting the fuel bias and open loop the afr is solid 11.5 to 12 for me. I would be interested to see this comparison again with a slight adjustment to the JB4.
I'm aware this defeats the purpose of the out of box comparison but it would be interesting.
@christopherm1856 do you share your settings, or is it top secret. Those afraid numbers are nice.
So do you need to leave the Cobb plugged in the whole time or program and unplug if you want, also can you set the tune back to stock before the dealership visit, I use to do that with one of my mustangs
I haven’t seen warranty claims denied strictly due using a Cobb AP by itself. If there are other mods like CAI, downpipe, exhaust, etc it makes it harder for the dealer to argue on the customers behalf because it shows a higher potential for abuse. Now it does depend on the dealer itself though.
You haven't been on the reddit forums they are denied completely stock with the AP
@@DylanVBWRX I’ll have to check it out. I’m not on Reddit often. I asked the dealer when we bought our Ascent about the Cobb AP and they had no issue with it regarding warranty claims. Granted that’s a bit different than a WRX since they driven harder than a 3 row SUV most of the time.
@@cpftank09 Subaru stated it would 100% not be covered
@@cpftank09 you also have to remember that what a service writer tells you when nothing is wrong may be different than when your engine goes. Which would they rather a set flat rate from Subaru or three times the shop time and double the labor rate they can charge when it’s denied.
@@DylanVBWRX I completely understand what you’re saying. Has there been an abnormal amount of engine failures with the FA24? I have only seen a couple reports of it in the Ascent and OB communities, all stock too. But if there is just a component failure, the AP shouldn’t cause any issues.
@grimmspeed, what map was being used on the JB4? Was it map 1, 2, or custom?
No, you can't use the COBB "all over the world", it's USDM ECUs only.
What kind of adjustments did you make on the jb4 to run richer?
I'd have to talk with our tuner, but I suggest reaching out to Burger to get more information.
Does adding the Cobb port void warranty?
No. It’s lends to signs that you have modified which can be used for grounds of claim denial.
So which one will last longer before it blows my engine again ?
😅
Why did your tuner choose to work with afr rather than lambda ?
Can't talk about HP without talking about lbft and RPM. Cobb seems better. Of course the JB4 doesn't flash the ECU.
Im willing to buy those old cobbs off you guys just can’t afford the new ones😂 please just lmk if I can get them or not
I use a v1 still... Software doesn't work anymore
Any results with your air filter on the VB? You provide numbers Ill order one right now.
Tpg tuning in PA got their VB to 353 hp and 356 tq with an ets intake and a turbo back exhaust, with a Cobb 93 octane tune on it
Can I get your wheels and suspension?
He said "Porch" :(
COBB has betrayed the tuner community and chose to align themselves with the liberal/democrat/left agenda. I think we're going to start seeing more tuners boycotting companies like COBB and make way for more new companies to come in the name of freedom and not want to limit how we choose to tune our cars. Im personally waiting and im sure many more for that company to pop up to support all the way. Thats where I would feel good about spending my hard earned money.
Cobb is gonna do what’s in their best interest. If you agree or disagree. If u don’t feel your hard earned money should be spent on it, there are plenty of other options and fabrication set ups that could be made
What makes you think the tuner community isn't politically diverse? Some tuners are republican, some tuners are democrat, some tuners don't vote at all why do you have to bring politics into this?
What specifically has COBB done? I'm new to the WRX game so I really don't know. I'm sure both Fed and State EPAs (Especially my state of CA) have their boots on the the throats of ALL aftermarket parts suppliers. 😡
...do you live in California or one of the 13 states that follow CARB regs?...regardless of what side the EPA is on, Cobb wants to remain in business and serve the car community so they are going to do what is necessary to avoid fines and other penalties. With your train of thought, EVERY car manufacturer has aligned with the "left" and makes cars that conform to (overreaching) government controls. If you don't like Cobb's decision, I encourage you to start your own business and sell products/services deemed illegal by the federal government. Let me know how it goes. 😕
@@jedwin4816 There’s really no drama here. Cobb simply complied with the EPA earlier this year, and it’s not like they had a choice. Look up their “Greenspeed update” for more information. The EPA cracked down on multiple tuner shops and sued them for thousands to millions of dollars because they were selling devices that allow the deletion/disabling of emissions compliance equipment, which is very illegal. In Cobb’s case, their tunes were literally capable of disabling emissions equipment on at least the WRX and GTR, and also disabling the CELs thrown when the emissions equipment was disabled/removed. Cobb was caught red handed and had no choice but to comply, leave the tuning business, or face catastrophically large fines.
In reality, Cobb actually stood up for the enthusiast community by fully cooperating with the EPA in a professional manner, which led to them coming up with a compromise that allowed them to continue selling tuning devices and software as long as they removed the ability to disable emissions components and warning lights. In addition to the tuning parts and software, Cobb has also taken it a step further by re-engineering many of their bolt-on performance parts and having them 50-state emissions certified. Now we can still tune and modify our cars without breaking the law.
The only people trying to make this into a political thing are either grossly misinformed, or they have a blatant agenda that has nothing to do with modifying cars. I suggest ignoring them.