superb insight Matt..golden educational vlogs. i've thought of that too..using DSP at rear subwoofers to cancel out the reflection. but i have yet to experiment active crossover for rear subs which has delay & reverb knob to adjust & cancel out the low frequency reflection from the back wall..or maybe Dayton's DSP-LF would do the trick.
In the future, it would be great if you can create a video that tests Dirac ART with a more modest system (such as 2 subs in the front and 2 in the rear, with surround speakers that are bandwidth limited, and maybe front speakers that are either similarly bandwidth limited or maybe can go down to 35 Hz or so). There are far more home theaters with this type of "modest"'(as compared to Trinnov waveforming purpose-built rooms).
A couple years ago, I had thought about trying a form of wave cancelling by attaching bass shakers on each wall and using some feedback and g measurements, to cancel some waves. I just haven't taken time to experiment. I know it wouldn't be as effective as actual subs, but I wanted to see how effective it might be, if at all.
Is it true that raising your subs off of the floor is actually better than on the ground? Ive seen this guy who does room acoustics who was supposed to test that but never got a chance to see. Seems like he knew what he was talking about but not sure if it has any real effects
Great video Matthew thanks for sharing. You mention the analog approach. Is the rear pair delay calculated for a specific frequency (ie 20 Hz) or strictly based on the room length?
Not exactly how it works. The rear subs are delayed based on time of flight for sound from front to rear. It’s so you cancel the wall reflections. However since that is often the longest dimension is the room, usually it cancels the first mode and derivatives of that length. But it’s not tuned to a frequency. It’s tuned to a dimension.
Yeah sort of. ART would be just as expensive to implement for the same performance. And until I see stronger evidence to the contrary, I think I would prefer to characterize it as waveforming being both more consistent and better results. I have a lot of faith that Dirac ART can achieve similar results potentially. However based on my experience, it would require a fundamentally more involved design approach for ART to do that. Which would then equal Waveforming in cost and complexity. I do like that ART is using all speakers as support speakers (potentially) but having now used it, and letting logic back into the equation, I’ve come to realize those support speakers need to be wide bandwidth and high dynamic range. You need surround speakers that can go down to 30-40hz at 110+ dB to really be fully effective support speakers with no chance of overloading. That means a very different surround speaker or the addition of bass augmentation speakers around the surrounds.
@@PoesAcoustics i agree, only meant cheaper as it can use the speaker that you already have but most surround speakers i have seen people use start to shit themselves around 120hz. but if the goal was the same results i think (discarding the price of the processor) waveforming might be cheaper, i can get 6 high quality high output subwoofers for way cheaper than 7 close to full range with high output speakers
For in ceiling subwoofers does it matter if they are down firing or in a side firing with a port? Related. Related to Welti studies on subwoofer placement have 4 subwoofers a quarter length in room. Can this be mixed with two front corner loaded speakers and two in-ceiling? Concerned that bass waves interacting perpendicularly would be less or not effective.
You can’t really mix locations. Need to basically pick a location and go with it for all four. Doesn’t matter what the ceiling orientation is though. I generally prefer all sealed, all ported, but not a mix and match.
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superb insight Matt..golden educational vlogs. i've thought of that too..using DSP at rear subwoofers to cancel out the reflection. but i have yet to experiment active crossover for rear subs which has delay & reverb knob to adjust & cancel out the low frequency reflection from the back wall..or maybe Dayton's DSP-LF would do the trick.
In the future, it would be great if you can create a video that tests Dirac ART with a more modest system (such as 2 subs in the front and 2 in the rear, with surround speakers that are bandwidth limited, and maybe front speakers that are either similarly bandwidth limited or maybe can go down to 35 Hz or so). There are far more home theaters with this type of "modest"'(as compared to Trinnov waveforming purpose-built rooms).
Informative as ever 👌
A lot to digest but I definitely have a better understanding of what Trinnov is doing. Thanks
A couple years ago, I had thought about trying a form of wave cancelling by attaching bass shakers on each wall and using some feedback and g measurements, to cancel some waves. I just haven't taken time to experiment. I know it wouldn't be as effective as actual subs, but I wanted to see how effective it might be, if at all.
That’s really clever man!
Is it true that raising your subs off of the floor is actually better than on the ground? Ive seen this guy who does room acoustics who was supposed to test that but never got a chance to see. Seems like he knew what he was talking about but not sure if it has any real effects
Great video Matthew thanks for sharing. You mention the analog approach. Is the rear pair delay calculated for a specific frequency (ie 20 Hz) or strictly based on the room length?
Not exactly how it works. The rear subs are delayed based on time of flight for sound from front to rear. It’s so you cancel the wall reflections. However since that is often the longest dimension is the room, usually it cancels the first mode and derivatives of that length. But it’s not tuned to a frequency. It’s tuned to a dimension.
@@PoesAcousticsgot it thank you!
great video, while it seems like DIRAC ART can cover more frequency range and cost less to implement, Waveforming can give more consistent results.
Yeah sort of. ART would be just as expensive to implement for the same performance.
And until I see stronger evidence to the contrary, I think I would prefer to characterize it as waveforming being both more consistent and better results. I have a lot of faith that Dirac ART can achieve similar results potentially. However based on my experience, it would require a fundamentally more involved design approach for ART to do that. Which would then equal Waveforming in cost and complexity.
I do like that ART is using all speakers as support speakers (potentially) but having now used it, and letting logic back into the equation, I’ve come to realize those support speakers need to be wide bandwidth and high dynamic range. You need surround speakers that can go down to 30-40hz at 110+ dB to really be fully effective support speakers with no chance of overloading. That means a very different surround speaker or the addition of bass augmentation speakers around the surrounds.
@@PoesAcoustics i agree, only meant cheaper as it can use the speaker that you already have but most surround speakers i have seen people use start to shit themselves around 120hz.
but if the goal was the same results i think (discarding the price of the processor) waveforming might be cheaper, i can get 6 high quality high output subwoofers for way cheaper than 7 close to full range with high output speakers
For in ceiling subwoofers does it matter if they are down firing or in a side firing with a port? Related. Related to Welti studies on subwoofer placement have 4 subwoofers a quarter length in room. Can this be mixed with two front corner loaded speakers and two in-ceiling? Concerned that bass waves interacting perpendicularly would be less or not effective.
You can’t really mix locations. Need to basically pick a location and go with it for all four.
Doesn’t matter what the ceiling orientation is though. I generally prefer all sealed, all ported, but not a mix and match.
Thank you for your support. I’ll answer your question in my upcoming videos