It is hard to argue with evangelicals because the way they interpret the scriptures is base on a single word on a particular passage, rather that letting scriptures interpret itself through the entirety of the scriptures.
@@jimmu2008 what about their analysis of Sam's point do you find untrue? I guarantee that you do not consider Rev. 6:9-11 as fully literal and neither does Sam or Myles. They are picking and choosing what is literal and what is not to fit their preconceptions. They would say we are doing the same. I guarantee you do not believe there is a literal altar in heaven with a bunch of disembodied souls under it crying for God to avenge their blood. I doubly guarantee you do not believe Revelation 6 is fully literal, yet for some reason the 5th seal is more literal because it supports a core belief.
I have a very hard time explaining things. So I will give someone I'm talking to sda channels to listen to or where to look up for bible studies. I'm definitely not a person to try and explain anything
The core of Christian thought, even among many Adventists, is God made up some rules and we either a) follow these rules to get a blessing or b) follow these rules to not get cursed or burn, or c) it is a cultural gossip club that meets each Sabbath which brings some emotional sense of belonging. Actual heart changing relationship with Jesus seems rare across Christianity.
*The book of Revelation is full of prophetic symbolism.* - *No one would wish to conclude, for example, that the four living creatures or the Lamb, of chapters 4 and 5 appear exactly in heaven as John saw them in vision.* - *God gave John a series of symbolic visions which we can accurately interpret by comparing Scripture with Scripture.* *The souls under the altar of Revelation 6:9-11 certainly do NOT refer to living, conscious, immortal disembodied souls of dead people in heaven.* *If we are to regard the "souls under the altar" of Revelation 6:9 as literal, we have a strange picture indeed.* - *Why are they congregated under the altar in heaven?* - *THEIR LOT REALLY DOES NOT SEEM TO BE VERY PLEASANT AFTER ALL; they seem to be very unhappy people in dire need of vindication.* - *It is very important to understand that the "altar" of Revelation 6:9 is not the altar of incense in heaven. It is an allusion to the altar of burnt offering that was in the court of the ancient Israelite sanctuary or temple* [Exod. 27:1-8; 29:12-18; 38:1-7]. *The language is clearly symbolic.* -*Martyrs are not confined under an altar crying in distress for vengeance on their enemies.* - *Though dead it is as if they were praying for divine vengeance in the same way Abel’s blood cried out to God* [Gen 4:10; cf. Ps 9:12; Luke 18:7]. - *God’s slain people would not cry out for revenge, as they are symbolized to do in the fifth seal.* - *Rather, like Jesus and Stephan, they would say,* - *‘Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing’* [Luke 23:34]. - *This, therefore, is not a literal cry for revenge.* - *The crying out, therefore, symbolizes the general principle that God is aware of the injustice to His people and His desire to set things right.* - *Though condemned by a corrupt church “white robes were given them.”* - *The white robes represent the VINDICATION of their reputation by the Reformation which exposed the iniquity and injustice of the Papacy.* *The message of Revelation 6:9-11 is a beautiful symbol of God's continuing concern for those who have laid down their lives for Him.* - *He has a record of the injustice dealt to them, and this record cries out for their vindication.* - *They are judged worthy in heaven and told to "rest yet for a little season"* [v11, KJV]. *At the second coming of Jesus, they will be awakened from the sleep of death and given their eternal inheritance* [1 Thess. 4:13-18].
I have a ton of respect for Sam and I have learned quite a lot from the work he's done with the Muslim community and his debating skills are very impressive. For obvious reasons, the only time he doesn't look sharp is when he ends up teaching false doctrine like this. I pray that his love for truth will get him on the right path.
Sam speaks against the Sabbath, he promotes Satan's first lie that sinners can live forever (in hell), and he often shows that he doesn't have the graces of mercy and love. .
for souls to be under an altar, those who have died for their faith, that's got to be an awfully huge altar for hundreds of millions have been slain for their faith in Christ. the book of Revelation is filled with symbols, or signs, they being interchangeable terms. the term killed by the sword refers to wars, battles, conflicts, not a literal sword. and this brings about a situation where there is lack of food so much that there are deaths caused by starvation and beast of the earth. what do beast in the book of Daniel and Revelation represent? nations, kingdoms, people and tongues. most of Christianity looks at scripture thru the eyes of spiritualism, that man continues to live after death by having an immortal soul, inner substance or being. while some still hold to the teaching that the dead cannot speak or communicate with the living, 1/2 of spiritualism, they hold to the other half. 1/2 of an error is still error.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv FACTS: Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope. Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intecessor. Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead. Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship. Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest" Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church. >>>> CHRISTIAN The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one", >>> A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv quote-----but you said that Jesus is the devil in the investigative judgment... unquote Let's read that. This investigative judgment determines who of the myriads sleeping in the dust of the earth are worthy of a part in the first resurrection, and who of its living multitudes are worthy of translation (1 Peter 4:17, 18; Daniel 7:9, 10; Revelation 14:6, 7; Luke 20:35). And that verse (Goat) is mentioned in Leviticus..sacrificial laws!!!!s
You guys do such a terrific job of defending Bible truth. The tragedy is, though, those who listen to the errors, as well as those who teach said errors, will most likely never hear your refutations of those misinterpretations of Scripture. And they wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction. So sad.
#1--Where in the Bible does Christ teach Sunday as a Holy Day??? #2--Where in the Bible does Christ teach Mary is a mediator/intercessor? #3--Where in the Bible did Christ change the Sabbath to Sunday??? #4--Where in the Bible did Christ teach that Mary has gone/ will go to heaven? #5--Where in the Bible did Christ teach that a mere man is head of His church??? #6--Where in the Bible is the title "pope" mentioned??? #7--Where in the Bible did Christ teach that those that die go right to heaven?? #8--Where in the Bible did Christ teach that mere men have to authority to change what God wrote??? #9--Where in the Bible did Christ teach that Peter is a pope?
@@thatnicekid04 FACTS: Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope. Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intecessor. Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead. Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship. Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest" Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church. >>>> CHRISTIAN The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one", >>> A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
In heaven there is no anxiety, impatience, grief or pain. So how can there be literal souls crying out from under an alter asking God when He's going to avenge them?
In fairness, Sam is being used as an instrument to bring the Bible to the lost sheep in Islam. But his character is still a work in progress until he starts reflecting the Christ he preaches..
Just remember the blind can't lead the blind because both fall into the ditch. We need to pursued perfection, and Sam with the denying one of the ten commandments becomes a stumbling block for others!
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv FACTS: Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope. Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intecessor. Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead. Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship. Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest" Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church. >>>> CHRISTIAN The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one", >>> A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>- --Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. ---Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise? ---Psalm 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish. ---- Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it. ---Ecclesiastes 9:6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. ---Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” ----James 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. ---Job 14:10-12 But a man dies and is laid low; man breathes his last, and where is he? As waters fail from a lake and a river wastes away and dries up, so a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. --****John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. ---Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. (Judgement on Judgement day) ---Acts 7:60 And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep (died ---Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. -----Job 14:12 So a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. According to Catholics, God and the Gospels are liars !!!!
@@PatrikMolinaexplain to me how you can get from 457 BC .in the spring of the year. to the fall of 1844, with 2300??? your Prophet says that's a true math equation !a true Prophet cannot lie! and this is what you're built on!!( NASA can't do that math equation up to this day ..so show me how you're going to do that!
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv History and simple maths can help you out. 1) 457 BC starts the prophetic 2300 years. Order to rebuild Jerusalem 2) 490 years were given to the Jews people. Which take us to 34AD when Stephen was killed and the gospel was brought to the gentiles. 3) Subtract 490 from the 2300 and what is left is 1810 years. 4) Add the 1810 to 34 (the end of the 490 years) and we come to 1844 AD
Good work guys. I'd like to add this... Heaven is, has been, and will always be a place where death cannot exist (Revelation 21). Not even a righteous man can enter without first becoming incorruptible per 1 Corinthians 15... Which is why Jesus said they could not go with him when he ascended. This is also why Jesus had to come in the flesh and die here on earth because there is no death in heaven. He had to be raised and glorified before his ascension. Therefore, how can the blood or supposed souls of obviously corruptible men (because they died) be in heaven where there is no death or corruption? ALSO, NO MAN'S BLOOD BESIDES JESUS IS WORTHY OF BEING SHED AND PLACED UNDER THE ALTER. I had to put that in all caps lol. Only specific animal sacrifices with no blemishes or imperfections (symbolizing no sin) could be slain and blood poured under the alert because it represents Christ. EVERY HUMAN BEING IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD HAS SINNED. So their blood cannot be used. So obviously their blood crying out under the alter is symbolic to martyrdom for their faith.
Revelation 6:9,10 “When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying ‘how long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth? Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.” Some believe that the saved live in heaven under an altar. This is a rather strange idea of paradise. This is not a literal event but is a part of a vision that uses symbolic language. In Genesis 4:10 God said to Cain after he had murdered his brother: “ What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground.” The saints’ cry to God in the same way the blood of Abel cried from the ground. It’s not real. The altar here is probably a picture of the bronze altar in the outer courtyard of the Hebrew sanctuary, and the martyrs may be thought of as sacrifices presented to God. As the blood of the victims was poured out at the base of the altar (see Lev 4:7), and the life (soul) of the flesh is in the blood (see Lev 17:11), so the souls of those who had been martyred may be thought of as being beneath the altar. Since the altar of sacrifice was not in the temple, but in the outer court, it is clear that the scene portrayed here takes place not in the heavenly temple but on the earth which was symbolised by the outer court of the temple. Later Jewish tradition set forth the idea that Israel’s dead were buried under the altar and therefore were interred under the throne of glory. These souls are not the disembodied spirits of departed martyrs. In this same vision the first four seals are the four horsemen of the apocalypse; a white, red, black and pale horse all with warlike riders. These do not literally exist in heaven. Likewise the souls under the altar in the fifth seal do not literally exist either. They are only figurative representations. In this case the symbolisation is presented to encourage those who faced martyrdom and death with the assurance that despite the seeming triumph of the enemy God’s people will eventually be vindicated.
The time times and a half a time to the children of Daniel.. the 42 months of Revelation 13:5 is not happened yet.. you're right ..they're not in heaven( yet). but those Souls will be there !they are The Souls of Revelation 20 verse 4!
@@mikeforfar9493 so you're saying the ending of the time times and a half time of Daniel 7 ends up in 1798 !!!with a deadly wound? Revelation 13:5 says the deadly wound is healed(( before that time starts))!!! so that's telling you the deadly wound is healed before it ever ever happens in 1798! why don't you read your Bible?
FACTS: Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope. Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intecessor. Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead. Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship. Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest" Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church. >>>> CHRISTIAN The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one", >>> A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 6:1 introduces us to the symbolic vision. “And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.” If they take literally the souls, so they should assume that an actual lamb opened the seals.
Souls crying out from under the altar is simply a metaphor just like Abel’s blood calling out from the ground it’s a metaphor I wish people would stop trying to debunk Adventism you make yourselves look foolish
Actually, I think Adventists look foolish. You can't even accept the plain sense of Colossians 2 whether it says to let no one judge you about feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths!
@@jimmu2008 Whether you read scripture in context or you watch the video about those very scriptures you mention, which will discuss those scriptures in context, either way, in context you are wrong. There is a difference between ceremonial laws and the ceremonial sabbaths VS the 10 commandments or God's perfect law and the actual sabbath, you have to understand the difference. There's a lot more.I could say but that's enough for now , if you wanna have a conversation politely , let me know if you tube doesn't delete this god bless you.
@@OurSavior-xr3yc show me from the Bible, especially about the Sabbath. In a way, I agree. There's a principle that still applies, and there's a ceremonial aspect to the Sabbath that can be changed. That change has to come from God, and it has in Christ.
@@jimmu2008 Just wanted to let you know. I'm not ignoring you and I will respond. It wouldn't be until tomorrow, most likely. It's been a very busy week and I have automation disorders and some days and make it extremely hard for me and I'm very run down and today's one of those days I didn't even do the work outside I was going to need. To do so I won't be on here. I haven't even written my poetry which I usually do every day. I know you wouldn't know that but I'm just trying to Express you where it's hard for me to right now. Have the energy to put in the research to give you all the scripture because of my eyesight that takes time for me anyway, so II assure you that assuming my body. Let's me, I will be gladly doing it tomorrow during sabbath. In fact, which I know you probably don't acknowledge, but it is so may God be with you and may he lead you in truth.
You guys know that you're making heaven sound like a boring earth right? Gods heavens have creatures we have never seen and they carry out his bidding Horses literally, chariots of fire the whole nine. So youre not making sense of the scriptures your loosing it. When Elijah was taken to heaven in a whirl wind and chariots and horses was it heavens horses or was it symbolic? No its literally and this is before revelations were given. The fact that you act like heaven has no horses because youre trying to make heaven fit earths function of creature costed you everything 8:20. I just shook my head yall dont get it. Its like you dont even read the way heaven has already been described and then you turn around and start rejecting the truth. So Jesus aint returning on a white horse or clouds either cause we got cars?🤣🤣🤣🤣 you guys know that heavens creatures are not made like lowly earth ones right? We have dominion to eat and kill the earth creatures but we cannot eat nor kill heavens creatures and we too will have new heavenly bodies we will not be basic human design anymore. The fact that you guys are trying to do an imaginary debate is crazy. 7 day adventist just get quiet when I see them or leave and say he has too much truth of the mysteries of God. I pray you guys will get the holy spirit stop rejecting him so he can lead you into all the truth 👀your logic cannot lead
What a peaceful break from all the worldly news of politics, money and war going on. Only if more people would learn about the truth of the word of God.
FACTS: Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope. Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intecessor. Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead. Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship. Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest" Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church. >>>> CHRISTIAN The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one", >>> A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
FACTS: Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope. Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven. Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intecessor. Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned. Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin. Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church. Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic. Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead. Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers. Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship. Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest" Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins. Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church. >>>> CHRISTIAN The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one", >>> A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>---
Where ost people get hung up outside of the SDA is the verse about death and what is Gods go back to God. What God gives us is His Holy Spirit. When we die it goes back to God..
Psuchë/Soul in the Geek has the same translation as Nephesh in Hebrew, Life, lives, a living thing, living creature, living being, or living person. Technically, Revelation 6:9 should read " And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the lives of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: " You'll notice Sam says the word Psuchδ but never gives the translation, any person that knows the symbolism in Prophecy would be ably to translate the word Soul in that verse to its proper context, Which would be " Lives ", how do we know this is symbolic of something? In Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. Now, does blood have a voice? No! Could it literally cry out? No! It symbolic, Sam and Myles make me laugh with that " context is king " yet they don't use it correctly either.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv you're just as ignorant as they are in how you interpret the Bible, there's a lot of symbolism that you take literally when in fact it is metaphorical. The history of Catholicism, and the Protestant Reformation, hand in hand with the Bible proves what SDAs believe correct. If you don't surrender your heart and let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth you'll be the one deceived and lost.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv I won't be laughing at that point, I'll be weeping over all those who had an opportunity to accept the truth but didn't, so they were deceived and lost. I have told you many, many times, that quite a few of the beliefs you have are relics steeped in the traditions of Catholicism. I have also been able to show that it's the case, just as ADL has. How sad that you chose pride and ignorance over the truth simply because you want to be right, even though you are wrong. Even though all the evidence has been laid out to you, if you don't think I don't know where you're coming from, think again Mary, I converted from Baptist to SDA.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you get the English translation of the ORIGINAL ANCIENT Hebrew manuscripts of Revelation, the Gospels and more of the NT. The Van Rensburg group and others have done this. The Hebrew shows it came BEFORE the Greek in several places and, tho translated by non-SDAs, totally corroborates SDA theology. This verse is one of them, the verse often used to “prove” all food is now “clean” was messed with and much much more.
@@thatnicekid04 Honestly he doesn’t have to. The SDA 1844 doctrine is so convoluted it’s not gonna pass Occam’s razor. Majority of SDAs don’t even know how to explain in brief this doctrine even if their salvation depends on it. I guarantee that many who agree with the explanation here didn’t understand most of what’s being said yet they say, “Amen” Good luck to this twisted doctrine that is supported by a house of cards. Take one of those cards away (e.g, state of the dead, day-year principle) and this convoluted doctrine would come crashing down
@@thatnicekid04I will ..and you will not debate me publicly.. on your own site (in the mainstream)! so everybody can read what you write! and it stays there ..rather than just a video! And when it starts to get tough you hide the answers!
Sam Shamoun thinks he is ‘the’ authority of the Bible, when in fact he has a convoluted understanding of the Bible. The souls under the alter are all those who were slain for the word of God and the testimony they held during the inquisition. Their bodies were burned at the stake and their souls ascended to heaven for they were worthy to receive immediate salvation in heaven.
Revelation is a Book of symbols,those souls under the are referring to people who have died in the past and will be resurrected. God voice should clearly resound in people's ears,they should hear His voice of what He commanded Adam not to do. Genesis 2:16,17. God's words is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow,it doesn't change in the New testament. People have been listening to the lies of the serpent about the immortality of the soul. Genesis 2:7. Man is mortal,only God is immortal. In the Hebrew,the word soul is nephesh. Soul is breathing creature, vitality, appetite,beast,body, breath,creature, desire, contented,lust ,man,me,mind,mortally,one,own,person, pleasure,him,her,thy - self,them(your) selves + slay. The Bible says also say that the soul that sinneth it shall die. Ezekiel 18:4 Dust + spirit/God's breath = a living soul/human being Dust - spirit/God's breath = a dead soul/ human being The souls under the altar of Revelation 6:9-11do not refer to living conscious, immortal souls of dead people in heaven. These "souls" or "lives" are a SYMBOL of those whose blood was poured out for Christ's sake. The matrys place under the altar indicates that they had sacrificed their lives as an act of worship to God. Their bodies await the resurrection at the return of Christ to earth. Daniel 12:1-2. They are only refuting the Bible which is the Word of God,not Adventism.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>- --Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. ---Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise? ---Psalm 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish. ---- Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it. ---Ecclesiastes 9:6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. ---Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” ----James 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. ---Job 14:10-12 But a man dies and is laid low; man breathes his last, and where is he? As waters fail from a lake and a river wastes away and dries up, so a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. --****John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. ---Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. (Judgement on Judgement day) ---Acts 7:60 And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep (died ---Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. -----Job 14:12 So a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. According to Catholics, God and the Gospels are liars !!!!
Sometimes we just need to ask the simplest of questions, and we get clarity. Why are they under an altar in heaven when God has mansions? Is heaven a place of weeping and crying? 🤔🤔
Sam can't be refuted one-on-one because he's like Myles, neither of them will shut up long enough for you to make your point and refute lol. I've challenged both to a live debate with standard debate rules, in Nashville Tn. ( Myles home ), at a neutral venue, with a neutral mediator, and a standard 30-minute statement and refute time, 15 minutes for opening arguments, and 30 for closing on the Sabbath, I.J., State of the Dead, and the S.O.P. All they do is make excuses as to why they won't do it lol. I even told them I'll make the trip to Nashville for it, know what I've got excuse after excuse.
@@ericfolks1503 I've done it so much I'm blue in the face, I've had this conversation with Myles going back and forth in the comment section on many of his videos. He just runs with excuse after excuse. He did the same thing to ADL.
If I am not mistaken doesn't hell refer to the grave? So, one could say, And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and the grave followed with him. Please give me your thoughts.
Many of the people here on this channel are not challenging Adventism, but contradicting the Bible which is the Word of God. The Word of God does not error or change somewhere else in the Bible. These people are confirming the words of what the serpent spoke to Eve in the Garden of Eden about the immortality of the soul ( human being). Genesis 3:4.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv talk to God about it,not me. The Bible says Then I heard one saint speaking,and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake,How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice,and the transgression of desolation,to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me,Unto two thousand and three hundred days;(Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6)then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.Daniel 8:13,14; Daniel 9:24-27; Matthew 27:51,Acts 7:54-60 And shall bring the goat you which the LORD's lot fell,and offer him for a sin offering. But the goat,in which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD,to make an atonement with the him,and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness. Leviticus 26:9,10 Nobody changed the day except there is no sacrifices going on. The 2300 days started in the fall of 457 b.c.e. and ended in the fall of October 22,1844. Nobody changes the Word of God.
Paganism really had a great influence in Christianity... thus, the state of the dead being an argument now... Brothers in Christ: The Lord "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living!" And Amem to that! He shall raise the Dead once again so that we, the Living can Worship the Lord our Saviour.
@@MajorGari those people (meet Jesus in the clouds). that verse was written to Christians! not people that are not Christians! SDA does not have that Jesus!
Hey friend. I'm Jason T... I agree with you. We will have one more response tonight for SDAs React. But responding to these guys takes so much. The problem is that they have a large platform, particularly Sam. Many people are being misled by their deception. Please keep us in prayer for wisdom in how to help God's people see the truth of God's word and see the errors of these critics.
@@thatnicekid04 I agree that we need to help people break away from their deception. However, highlighting all the naysayers' errors, and giving them coverage one-by-one, is pleasing Satan, because it takes our efforts away from giving the Three Angels' Messages. . So please stop responding to everything those guys say. Satan can continually raise up truth-deniers until Jesus comes, and then souls that didn't make it will be on our hands. . God bless as you follow God's leading on what to do.
@AdventDefenseLeague I commented to both of them that they are far from being humble. If you are comparing yourself to them...bro..you are no different from them. I am glad I quit being an SDA long ago. SDA's don't represent Christ even in their Bible study.
@@Paandi-2031 glad you admit they aren't humble, and I'd argue they are far worse in their attitudes. Jason giggles a bit and that's being compared to Myles calling me a pr*ck and arrogant j*rk. Go figure. Now, I'd like to see how you'd refute my arguments in the video you are commenting on. Critics have this weird habit of expressing their off topic gradiences on videos they don't even bother responding to. I'd rather talk Bible. Tell me with Bible how what I said in THIS video is error. Go for it.
@AdventDefenseLeague even if they called you names...if you held Christ behavior you wouldn't act like them or compare with. Yes, I would like to refute SDA's state of dead doctrine. But few weeks ago I started posting here with my thoughts of current existence of hell. You guys dint respond.
@@Paandi-2031thanks for the warning. It is not my intention to laugh at people or insult anyone. But I'm not perfect. I'll keep it in mind to not do anything that comes across insulting. Can you post the timestamp you are referring to where I laughed?
😂😂😂.....the blind leading the deaf.....So below the alter of fire in heaven resides the souls of men 😂😂😂....So who is Jesus resurrecting when he come back? futher more if this I am to entertain there arguments why would God put the saiths below the alter of all places in heaven 😂😂😂😂
Exactly! Or if heaven is supposed to be a place with no tears and no sorrow, why would these "literal souls" be CRYING under an altar? And if it is literal, and they are UNDER the altar, how SMALL are these souls? Pray for Myles and Sam and all the confused SOULS out there to come to the truth sooner than later!!
It does matter the location or imagery of the altar- the “souls” were slain believers (people). Same word translated as slain is used for the lamb as well. Is that symbolic too?
@@Baff7326 the point is this is figurative language used as imagery to reveal a prophecy. There are no souls in heaven praying to God, if your under the alter it is literally as described before the throne of God. Also if these souls are alive speaking with out a body are they spirits?
heaven becomes a very strange place if we take it literally. The problem with Sam and Myles logic is that they are using an all or nothing approach. Adventists aren't saying everything in the passage is symbolic, we are saying what is symbolic is symbolic and what is literal is literal. We aren't saying there weren't people slain for the cause of Christ. Not even Sam and Myles take this passage fully literally. They don't believe there is an actual altar in heaven with a bunch of dead souls underneath it. They are taking what is literal to force the text to support the position they are arguing for.
Lol you guys won’t debate Sam and Myles😂 they will obliterate SDA beliefs specially when Myles start quoting your false doctrine version from Ellen g white.
@@thatnicekid04you can take SDA down with three questions the math equation from 457 to the end! who Jesus is, in 1st Peter 2:24!!! and who the (souls are in Revelation chapter chapter 20 verse 4 )..and who's judging those Souls!
Sam and Myles are the ones who won’t debate them. Everyone of ADL’s video responses bibcoy refutes all of their accusations. And no we do not need Elle. white to prove a single Bible doctored taught by the SDA church. It’s all in the Bible my friend
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It is hard to argue with evangelicals because the way they interpret the scriptures is base on a single word on a particular passage, rather that letting scriptures interpret itself through the entirety of the scriptures.
ironically that is what they accuse us of doing...
@@thadofalltrades It's not ironic when it's the truth.
@@jimmu2008 what about their analysis of Sam's point do you find untrue? I guarantee that you do not consider Rev. 6:9-11 as fully literal and neither does Sam or Myles. They are picking and choosing what is literal and what is not to fit their preconceptions. They would say we are doing the same. I guarantee you do not believe there is a literal altar in heaven with a bunch of disembodied souls under it crying for God to avenge their blood. I doubly guarantee you do not believe Revelation 6 is fully literal, yet for some reason the 5th seal is more literal because it supports a core belief.
I have a very hard time explaining things. So I will give someone I'm talking to sda channels to listen to or where to look up for bible studies. I'm definitely not a person to try and explain anything
@@lindaschipansky4429 then my advice is don't listen to SDA doctrines. They originated in the 19th century and are not taught by the Bible.
The core of Christian thought, even among many Adventists, is God made up some rules and we either a) follow these rules to get a blessing or b) follow these rules to not get cursed or burn, or c) it is a cultural gossip club that meets each Sabbath which brings some emotional sense of belonging.
Actual heart changing relationship with Jesus seems rare across Christianity.
*The book of Revelation is full of prophetic symbolism.* - *No one would wish to conclude, for example, that the four living creatures or the Lamb, of chapters 4 and 5 appear exactly in heaven as John saw them in vision.* - *God gave John a series of symbolic visions which we can accurately interpret by comparing Scripture with Scripture.*
*The souls under the altar of Revelation 6:9-11 certainly do NOT refer to living, conscious, immortal disembodied souls of dead people in heaven.*
*If we are to regard the "souls under the altar" of Revelation 6:9 as literal, we have a strange picture indeed.* - *Why are they congregated under the altar in heaven?* - *THEIR LOT REALLY DOES NOT SEEM TO BE VERY PLEASANT AFTER ALL; they seem to be very unhappy people in dire need of vindication.* - *It is very important to understand that the "altar" of Revelation 6:9 is not the altar of incense in heaven. It is an allusion to the altar of burnt offering that was in the court of the ancient Israelite sanctuary or temple* [Exod. 27:1-8; 29:12-18; 38:1-7].
*The language is clearly symbolic.* -*Martyrs are not confined under an altar crying in distress for vengeance on their enemies.* - *Though dead it is as if they were praying for divine vengeance in the same way Abel’s blood cried out to God* [Gen 4:10; cf. Ps 9:12; Luke 18:7]. - *God’s slain people would not cry out for revenge, as they are symbolized to do in the fifth seal.* - *Rather, like Jesus and Stephan, they would say,* - *‘Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing’* [Luke 23:34]. - *This, therefore, is not a literal cry for revenge.* - *The crying out, therefore, symbolizes the general principle that God is aware of the injustice to His people and His desire to set things right.* - *Though condemned by a corrupt church “white robes were given them.”* - *The white robes represent the VINDICATION of their reputation by the Reformation which exposed the iniquity and injustice of the Papacy.*
*The message of Revelation 6:9-11 is a beautiful symbol of God's continuing concern for those who have laid down their lives for Him.* - *He has a record of the injustice dealt to them, and this record cries out for their vindication.* - *They are judged worthy in heaven and told to "rest yet for a little season"* [v11, KJV]. *At the second coming of Jesus, they will be awakened from the sleep of death and given their eternal inheritance* [1 Thess. 4:13-18].
Spot on in your comment brother! Thanks a lot!
I have a ton of respect for Sam and I have learned quite a lot from the work he's done with the Muslim community and his debating skills are very impressive. For obvious reasons, the only time he doesn't look sharp is when he ends up teaching false doctrine like this. I pray that his love for truth will get him on the right path.
Sam speaks against the Sabbath, he promotes Satan's first lie that sinners can live forever (in hell), and he often shows that he doesn't have the graces of mercy and love.
.
@@earlysdamy go to when it comes to Islam is Christian Prince . He know arabic and he is balanced unlike Sam
@@earlysdahe's catholic
@@Pahyto1 Pahyto, Yes, Christian Prince is great when talking to Muslims, to show them the way to Christ.
@@mariabarnes9197 maria, we need to ask Sam to repent, and show him the way to follow Christ.
for souls to be under an altar, those who have died for their faith, that's got to be an awfully huge altar for hundreds of millions have been slain for their faith in Christ. the book of Revelation is filled with symbols, or signs, they being interchangeable terms. the term killed by the sword refers to wars, battles, conflicts, not a literal sword. and this brings about a situation where there is lack of food so much that there are deaths caused by starvation and beast of the earth. what do beast in the book of Daniel and Revelation represent? nations, kingdoms, people and tongues. most of Christianity looks at scripture thru the eyes of spiritualism, that man continues to live after death by having an immortal soul, inner substance or being. while some still hold to the teaching that the dead cannot speak or communicate with the living, 1/2 of spiritualism, they hold to the other half. 1/2 of an error is still error.
Glory to our Lord and Saviour.May He continuously bless His servants the ADL so that it is the truth and not error that is spread to His people.
Satan pulverised & butcher the minds of miles & Sam
That’s over the top my friend ❤
That happened in 1844 to SDA and they're still there and they're not going to recover
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv FACTS:
Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intecessor.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin.
Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church.
Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic.
Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.
Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers.
Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship.
Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest"
Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins.
Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church.
>>>>
CHRISTIAN
The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one",
>>>
A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
@@mitchellosmer1293but you said that Jesus is the devil in the investigative judgment
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv quote-----but you said that Jesus is the devil in the investigative judgment... unquote
Let's read that.
This investigative judgment determines who of the myriads sleeping in the dust of the earth are worthy of a part in the first resurrection, and who of its living multitudes are worthy of translation (1 Peter 4:17, 18; Daniel 7:9, 10; Revelation 14:6, 7; Luke 20:35).
And that verse (Goat) is mentioned in Leviticus..sacrificial laws!!!!s
You guys do such a terrific job of defending Bible truth. The tragedy is, though, those who listen to the errors, as well as those who teach said errors, will most likely never hear your refutations of those misinterpretations of Scripture. And they wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction. So sad.
Amen! More people need to spread the truth. We need to share this truth to anyone who desires to know the truth.
Many of these people like to contradict the Word of God, God does not error,is infallible.
#1--Where in the Bible does Christ teach Sunday as a Holy Day???
#2--Where in the Bible does Christ teach Mary is a mediator/intercessor?
#3--Where in the Bible did Christ change the Sabbath to Sunday???
#4--Where in the Bible did Christ teach that Mary has gone/ will go to heaven?
#5--Where in the Bible did Christ teach that a mere man is head of His church???
#6--Where in the Bible is the title "pope" mentioned???
#7--Where in the Bible did Christ teach that those that die go right to heaven??
#8--Where in the Bible did Christ teach that mere men have to authority to change what God wrote???
#9--Where in the Bible did Christ teach that Peter is a pope?
@@thatnicekid04 FACTS:
Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intecessor.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin.
Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church.
Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic.
Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.
Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers.
Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship.
Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest"
Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins.
Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church.
>>>>
CHRISTIAN
The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one",
>>>
A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
In heaven there is no anxiety, impatience, grief or pain. So how can there be literal souls crying out from under an alter asking God when He's going to avenge them?
Are you saying,, the Bible is not saying, what it is saying?
@MaryMartinez-lm5tv I am saying, the Bible is not saying what they interpreted.
@@alexfredankey5721 who's interpretation are you implying is wrong
@@alexfredankey5721 who is they who is interpretation are you implying is not correct
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv Answering Adventism
In fairness, Sam is being used as an instrument to bring the Bible to the lost sheep in Islam. But his character is still a work in progress until he starts reflecting the Christ he preaches..
Just remember the blind can't lead the blind because both fall into the ditch. We need to pursued perfection, and Sam with the denying one of the ten commandments becomes a stumbling block for others!
Sam and myles are so arrogant and "think" they have the truth and can rebuke everything.
The truth is not arrogance but hate towards the truth is arrogant
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv they are arrogant bc they 1. Think they know the truth and they don't. 2. They way they talk lmao
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv FACTS:
Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intecessor.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin.
Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church.
Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic.
Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.
Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers.
Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship.
Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest"
Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins.
Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church.
>>>>
CHRISTIAN
The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one",
>>>
A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>-
--Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.
---Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise?
---Psalm 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.
---- Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.
---Ecclesiastes 9:6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.
---Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”
----James 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
---Job 14:10-12 But a man dies and is laid low; man breathes his last, and where is he? As waters fail from a lake and a river wastes away and dries up, so a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep.
--****John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
---Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. (Judgement on Judgement day)
---Acts 7:60 And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep (died
---Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
-----Job 14:12 So a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep.
According to Catholics, God and the Gospels are liars !!!!
@@PatrikMolinaexplain to me how you can get from 457 BC .in the spring of the year. to the fall of 1844, with 2300??? your Prophet says that's a true math equation !a true Prophet cannot lie! and this is what you're built on!!( NASA can't do that math equation up to this day ..so show me how you're going to do that!
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv History and simple maths can help you out.
1) 457 BC starts the prophetic 2300 years. Order to rebuild Jerusalem
2) 490 years were given to the Jews people. Which take us to 34AD when Stephen was killed and the gospel was brought to the gentiles.
3) Subtract 490 from the 2300 and what is left is 1810 years.
4) Add the 1810 to 34 (the end of the 490 years) and we come to 1844 AD
This is so clear! Thank you brothers!
Thanks you discuss this two men who critics sda
Sam will never be like Christian Prince nor he will be balanced as him
I was wondering if you'd bring up Lev 17:11. You did :) in the russian translation, it says SOUL for the word "nephesh."
Good work guys. I'd like to add this...
Heaven is, has been, and will always be a place where death cannot exist (Revelation 21). Not even a righteous man can enter without first becoming incorruptible per 1 Corinthians 15... Which is why Jesus said they could not go with him when he ascended. This is also why Jesus had to come in the flesh and die here on earth because there is no death in heaven. He had to be raised and glorified before his ascension. Therefore, how can the blood or supposed souls of obviously corruptible men (because they died) be in heaven where there is no death or corruption?
ALSO, NO MAN'S BLOOD BESIDES JESUS IS WORTHY OF BEING SHED AND PLACED UNDER THE ALTER. I had to put that in all caps lol. Only specific animal sacrifices with no blemishes or imperfections (symbolizing no sin) could be slain and blood poured under the alert because it represents Christ. EVERY HUMAN BEING IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD HAS SINNED. So their blood cannot be used. So obviously their blood crying out under the alter is symbolic to martyrdom for their faith.
No they died on the earth their souls go to heaven they are the people of Revelation 20 verse 4
Revelation 6:9,10 “When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying ‘how long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth? Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.”
Some believe that the saved live in heaven under an altar. This is a rather strange idea of paradise. This is not a literal event but is a part of a vision that uses symbolic language. In Genesis 4:10 God said to Cain after he had murdered his brother: “ What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground.” The saints’ cry to God in the same way the blood of Abel cried from the ground. It’s not real. The altar here is probably a picture of the bronze altar in the outer courtyard of the Hebrew sanctuary, and the martyrs may be thought of as sacrifices presented to God. As the blood of the victims was poured out at the base of the altar (see Lev 4:7), and the life (soul) of the flesh is in the blood (see Lev 17:11), so the souls of those who had been martyred may be thought of as being beneath the altar. Since the altar of sacrifice was not in the temple, but in the outer court, it is clear that the scene portrayed here takes place not in the heavenly temple but on the earth which was symbolised by the outer court of the temple. Later Jewish tradition set forth the idea that Israel’s dead were buried under the altar and therefore were interred under the throne of glory. These souls are not the disembodied spirits of departed martyrs. In this same vision the first four seals are the four horsemen of the apocalypse; a white, red, black and pale horse all with warlike riders. These do not literally exist in heaven. Likewise the souls under the altar in the fifth seal do not literally exist either. They are only figurative representations. In this case the symbolisation is presented to encourage those who faced martyrdom and death with the assurance that despite the seeming triumph of the enemy God’s people will eventually be vindicated.
💯🙏
The time times and a half a time to the children of Daniel.. the 42 months of Revelation 13:5 is not happened yet.. you're right ..they're not in heaven( yet). but those Souls will be there !they are The Souls of Revelation 20 verse 4!
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv the 42 months occurred 538 - 1798 ad.
@@mikeforfar9493 so they're already used up right? So the 42 months of Revelation 13 already passed? is what you just said correct?
@@mikeforfar9493 so you're saying the ending of the time times and a half time of Daniel 7 ends up in 1798 !!!with a deadly wound? Revelation 13:5 says the deadly wound is healed(( before that time starts))!!! so that's telling you the deadly wound is healed before it ever ever happens in 1798! why don't you read your Bible?
Thank you brethren. Keep up the wonderful work! We are all blessed by your ministry, straight from God’s word. The unadulterated truth!
FACTS:
Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intecessor.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin.
Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church.
Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic.
Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.
Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers.
Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship.
Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest"
Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins.
Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church.
>>>>
CHRISTIAN
The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one",
>>>
A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 6:1 introduces us to the symbolic vision. “And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.”
If they take literally the souls, so they should assume that an actual lamb opened the seals.
The blood of Abel cries to me.
just like yours will,, but for a different reason. when you die.
miles and sam They lack knowledge of the scripture They Obtain viewers by criticizing
Souls crying out from under the altar is simply a metaphor just like Abel’s blood calling out from the ground it’s a metaphor I wish people would stop trying to debunk Adventism you make yourselves look foolish
Actually, I think Adventists look foolish. You can't even accept the plain sense of Colossians 2 whether it says to let no one judge you about feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths!
@@jimmu2008
Whether you read scripture in context or you watch the video about those very scriptures you mention, which will discuss those scriptures in context, either way, in context you are wrong. There is a difference between ceremonial laws and the ceremonial sabbaths VS the 10 commandments or God's perfect law and the actual sabbath, you have to understand the difference. There's a lot more.I could say but that's enough for now , if you wanna have a conversation politely , let me know if you tube doesn't delete this god bless you.
@@OurSavior-xr3yc show me from the Bible, especially about the Sabbath. In a way, I agree. There's a principle that still applies, and there's a ceremonial aspect to the Sabbath that can be changed. That change has to come from God, and it has in Christ.
@@OurSavior-xr3yc I am reading the scriptures in context. It's obvious when you dd that Christ is our Sabbath rest and not Saturday.
@@jimmu2008
Just wanted to let you know. I'm not ignoring you and I will respond. It wouldn't be until tomorrow, most likely. It's been a very busy week and I have automation disorders and some days and make it extremely hard for me and I'm very run down and today's one of those days I didn't even do the work outside I was going to need. To do so I won't be on here. I haven't even written my poetry which I usually do every day. I know you wouldn't know that but I'm just trying to Express you where it's hard for me to right now. Have the energy to put in the research to give you all the scripture because of my eyesight that takes time for me anyway, so II assure you that assuming my body. Let's me, I will be gladly doing it tomorrow during sabbath. In fact, which I know you probably don't acknowledge, but it is so may God be with you and may he lead you in truth.
You guys know that you're making heaven sound like a boring earth right? Gods heavens have creatures we have never seen and they carry out his bidding Horses literally, chariots of fire the whole nine. So youre not making sense of the scriptures your loosing it. When Elijah was taken to heaven in a whirl wind and chariots and horses was it heavens horses or was it symbolic? No its literally and this is before revelations were given. The fact that you act like heaven has no horses because youre trying to make heaven fit earths function of creature costed you everything 8:20. I just shook my head yall dont get it. Its like you dont even read the way heaven has already been described and then you turn around and start rejecting the truth. So Jesus aint returning on a white horse or clouds either cause we got cars?🤣🤣🤣🤣 you guys know that heavens creatures are not made like lowly earth ones right? We have dominion to eat and kill the earth creatures but we cannot eat nor kill heavens creatures and we too will have new heavenly bodies we will not be basic human design anymore. The fact that you guys are trying to do an imaginary debate is crazy. 7 day adventist just get quiet when I see them or leave and say he has too much truth of the mysteries of God. I pray you guys will get the holy spirit stop rejecting him so he can lead you into all the truth 👀your logic cannot lead
Who said heaven has no horses?
What a peaceful break from all the worldly news of politics, money and war going on. Only if more people would learn about the truth of the word of God.
FACTS:
Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intecessor.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin.
Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church.
Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic.
Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.
Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers.
Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship.
Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest"
Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins.
Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church.
>>>>
CHRISTIAN
The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one",
>>>
A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
FACTS:
Christ NEVER taught that Peter is a pope.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary will go to heaven.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary is a mediator/intecessor.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary never sinned.
Christ NEVER taught that Mary remained virgin.
Christ NEVER Taught that a mere man is head of His church.
Christ NEVER taught about a church named Catholic.
Christ NEVER taught that we can pray to the dead.
Christ NEVER taught that the dead can hear our prayers.
Christ NEVER taught that anyone can change the day of worship.
Christ NEVER taught to confess to a "priest"
Christ NEVER Taught a priest can forgive your sins.
Christ NEVER taught salvation is through a church.
>>>>
CHRISTIAN
The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one",
>>>
A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
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Where ost people get hung up outside of the SDA is the verse about death and what is Gods go back to God. What God gives us is His Holy Spirit. When we die it goes back to God..
That's the souls that are under the altar the souls in Revelation 20 who are being judged but not for sin
Psuchë/Soul in the Geek has the same translation as Nephesh in Hebrew, Life, lives, a living thing, living creature, living being, or living person. Technically, Revelation 6:9 should read " And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the lives of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: " You'll notice Sam says the word Psuchδ but never gives the translation, any person that knows the symbolism in Prophecy would be ably to translate the word Soul in that verse to its proper context, Which would be " Lives ", how do we know this is symbolic of something? In Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. Now, does blood have a voice? No! Could it literally cry out? No! It symbolic, Sam and Myles make me laugh with that " context is king " yet they don't use it correctly either.
You'll get your chance to laugh at the end of Revelation 20
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv you're just as ignorant as they are in how you interpret the Bible, there's a lot of symbolism that you take literally when in fact it is metaphorical. The history of Catholicism, and the Protestant Reformation, hand in hand with the Bible proves what SDAs believe correct. If you don't surrender your heart and let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth you'll be the one deceived and lost.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv I won't be laughing at that point, I'll be weeping over all those who had an opportunity to accept the truth but didn't, so they were deceived and lost. I have told you many, many times, that quite a few of the beliefs you have are relics steeped in the traditions of Catholicism. I have also been able to show that it's the case, just as ADL has.
How sad that you chose pride and ignorance over the truth simply because you want to be right, even though you are wrong. Even though all the evidence has been laid out to you, if you don't think I don't know where you're coming from, think again Mary, I converted from Baptist to SDA.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you get the English translation of the ORIGINAL ANCIENT Hebrew manuscripts of Revelation, the Gospels and more of the NT. The Van Rensburg group and others have done this. The Hebrew shows it came BEFORE the Greek in several places and, tho translated by non-SDAs, totally corroborates SDA theology. This verse is one of them, the verse often used to “prove” all food is now “clean” was messed with and much much more.
How and where can anyone get a manuscript
You can go back and forth forever but unless you have a discussion with sam or myles, you won’t really settle the issue
Ask Myles if he will talk to ADL.
@@thatnicekid04 Honestly he doesn’t have to. The SDA 1844 doctrine is so convoluted it’s not gonna pass Occam’s razor. Majority of SDAs don’t even know how to explain in brief this doctrine even if their salvation depends on it. I guarantee that many who agree with the explanation here didn’t understand most of what’s being said yet they say, “Amen”
Good luck to this twisted doctrine that is supported by a house of cards. Take one of those cards away (e.g, state of the dead, day-year principle) and this convoluted doctrine would come crashing down
@@thatnicekid04I will ..and you will not debate me publicly.. on your own site (in the mainstream)! so everybody can read what you write! and it stays there ..rather than just a video! And when it starts to get tough you hide the answers!
A debate with Sam needs a moderator
God bless ADL
Sam Shamoun thinks he is ‘the’ authority of the Bible, when in fact he has a convoluted understanding of the Bible. The souls under the alter are all those who were slain for the word of God and the testimony they held during the inquisition. Their bodies were burned at the stake and their souls ascended to heaven for they were worthy to receive immediate salvation in heaven.
Revelation is a Book of symbols,those souls under the are referring to people who have died in the past and will be resurrected. God voice should clearly resound in people's ears,they should hear His voice of what He commanded Adam not to do. Genesis 2:16,17. God's words is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow,it doesn't change in the New testament. People have been listening to the lies of the serpent about the immortality of the soul. Genesis 2:7. Man is mortal,only God is immortal. In the Hebrew,the word soul is nephesh. Soul is breathing creature, vitality, appetite,beast,body, breath,creature, desire, contented,lust ,man,me,mind,mortally,one,own,person, pleasure,him,her,thy - self,them(your) selves + slay.
The Bible says also say that the soul that sinneth it shall die. Ezekiel 18:4
Dust + spirit/God's breath = a living soul/human being
Dust - spirit/God's breath = a dead soul/ human being
The souls under the altar of Revelation 6:9-11do not refer to living conscious, immortal souls of dead people in heaven. These "souls" or "lives" are a SYMBOL of those whose blood was poured out for Christ's sake. The matrys place under the altar indicates that they had sacrificed their lives as an act of worship to God. Their bodies await the resurrection at the return of Christ to earth. Daniel 12:1-2. They are only refuting the Bible which is the Word of God,not Adventism.
what is the program they use to read the scripture? I've seen Walter vieth use it.
E-Sword
@@thatnicekid04 Blessings!
Oh I like Walter veith and Martin
Walter will change a word in the Bible( to fit his narrative)!!!. I watched him do it!
You guys are cooking here; your argument for the state of the dead is making a lot of sense. Thanks for the breakdown!
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--Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.
---Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise?
---Psalm 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.
---- Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.
---Ecclesiastes 9:6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.
---Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”
----James 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
---Job 14:10-12 But a man dies and is laid low; man breathes his last, and where is he? As waters fail from a lake and a river wastes away and dries up, so a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep.
--****John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
---Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. (Judgement on Judgement day)
---Acts 7:60 And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep (died
---Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
-----Job 14:12 So a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep.
According to Catholics, God and the Gospels are liars !!!!
Great explanation very logical and it's backed up by the scripture. Sam's explanation makes no sense.
Sometimes we just need to ask the simplest of questions, and we get clarity. Why are they under an altar in heaven when God has mansions? Is heaven a place of weeping and crying? 🤔🤔
Where does it say they're weeping and crying
quote-- Why are they under an altar in heaven when God has mansions?.. unquote
NO MANSIONS UNTIL after the tribulations!!!
Sam can't be refuted one-on-one because he's like Myles, neither of them will shut up long enough for you to make your point and refute lol. I've challenged both to a live debate with standard debate rules, in Nashville Tn. ( Myles home ), at a neutral venue, with a neutral mediator, and a standard 30-minute statement and refute time, 15 minutes for opening arguments, and 30 for closing on the Sabbath, I.J., State of the Dead, and the S.O.P. All they do is make excuses as to why they won't do it lol. I even told them I'll make the trip to Nashville for it, know what I've got excuse after excuse.
Keep asking them
@@ericfolks1503 I've done it so much I'm blue in the face, I've had this conversation with Myles going back and forth in the comment section on many of his videos.
He just runs with excuse after excuse. He did the same thing to ADL.
If I am not mistaken doesn't hell refer to the grave? So, one could say, And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and the grave followed with him. Please give me your thoughts.
God speaks through the king James he. Also speaks in english.
Many of the people here on this channel are not challenging Adventism, but contradicting the Bible which is the Word of God. The Word of God does not error or change somewhere else in the Bible. These people are confirming the words of what the serpent spoke to Eve in the Garden of Eden about the immortality of the soul ( human being). Genesis 3:4.
So why did you change Danielle 8:14 and Leviticus 16:10
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv talk to God about it,not me. The Bible says
Then I heard one saint speaking,and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake,How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice,and the transgression of desolation,to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
And he said unto me,Unto two thousand and three hundred days;(Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6)then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.Daniel 8:13,14; Daniel 9:24-27; Matthew 27:51,Acts 7:54-60
And shall bring the goat you which the LORD's lot fell,and offer him for a sin offering. But the goat,in which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD,to make an atonement with the him,and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness. Leviticus 26:9,10
Nobody changed the day except there is no sacrifices going on. The 2300 days started in the fall of 457 b.c.e. and ended in the fall of October 22,1844. Nobody changes the Word of God.
Yes, It's happened already that's were the souls under the altar came from, and it's gonna happen again.
Paganism really had a great influence in Christianity... thus, the state of the dead being an argument now...
Brothers in Christ: The Lord "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living!"
And Amem to that! He shall raise the Dead once again so that we, the Living can Worship the Lord our Saviour.
Can you give me the verse that says you're going to heaven?
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv 1 Tess 4:16-18 is just one of'em
@@MajorGari put on none of that matters to you that verse was not written that versus written to Christians sda does not have the Jesus of the Bible
@@MajorGari those people (meet Jesus in the clouds). that verse was written to Christians! not people that are not Christians! SDA does not have that Jesus!
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv So said the accuser.
My question is how come these false teachers won't have a civilized debate with y'all
It's not great to debate much, according to the SOP.
Let's stop promoting the errors of Satan.
Hey friend. I'm Jason T...
I agree with you. We will have one more response tonight for SDAs React. But responding to these guys takes so much.
The problem is that they have a large platform, particularly Sam. Many people are being misled by their deception. Please keep us in prayer for wisdom in how to help God's people see the truth of God's word and see the errors of these critics.
@@thatnicekid04 I agree that we need to help people break away from their deception. However, highlighting all the naysayers' errors, and giving them coverage one-by-one, is pleasing Satan, because it takes our efforts away from giving the Three Angels' Messages.
.
So please stop responding to everything those guys say. Satan can continually raise up truth-deniers until Jesus comes, and then souls that didn't make it will be on our hands.
.
God bless as you follow God's leading on what to do.
@@thatnicekid04who are the souls in Revelation 20 verse 4
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv people that were slain who Jesus resurrected and LIVED with Him for 1,000 years.
@@thatnicekid04 those are the people of Revelation 6:9 Revelation 7 after verse 9 he resurrected their bodies their souls came back with him Jude 1:14
Brother Jason, please don’t laugh like that …..when you realized there existed hell, demons will be rolling on the fire floor laughing at you
Would you also criticize Myles and Sam for their mockery and insults?
@AdventDefenseLeague I commented to both of them that they are far from being humble. If you are comparing yourself to them...bro..you are no different from them. I am glad I quit being an SDA long ago. SDA's don't represent Christ even in their Bible study.
@@Paandi-2031 glad you admit they aren't humble, and I'd argue they are far worse in their attitudes. Jason giggles a bit and that's being compared to Myles calling me a pr*ck and arrogant j*rk. Go figure.
Now, I'd like to see how you'd refute my arguments in the video you are commenting on. Critics have this weird habit of expressing their off topic gradiences on videos they don't even bother responding to. I'd rather talk Bible. Tell me with Bible how what I said in THIS video is error. Go for it.
@AdventDefenseLeague even if they called you names...if you held Christ behavior you wouldn't act like them or compare with.
Yes, I would like to refute SDA's state of dead doctrine. But few weeks ago I started posting here with my thoughts of current existence of hell. You guys dint respond.
@@Paandi-2031thanks for the warning. It is not my intention to laugh at people or insult anyone. But I'm not perfect. I'll keep it in mind to not do anything that comes across insulting.
Can you post the timestamp you are referring to where I laughed?
😂😂😂.....the blind leading the deaf.....So below the alter of fire in heaven resides the souls of men 😂😂😂....So who is Jesus resurrecting when he come back? futher more if this I am to entertain there arguments why would God put the saiths below the alter of all places in heaven 😂😂😂😂
Exactly! Or if heaven is supposed to be a place with no tears and no sorrow, why would these "literal souls" be CRYING under an altar? And if it is literal, and they are UNDER the altar, how SMALL are these souls? Pray for Myles and Sam and all the confused SOULS out there to come to the truth sooner than later!!
It does matter the location or imagery of the altar- the “souls” were slain believers (people). Same word translated as slain is used for the lamb as well. Is that symbolic too?
@@Baff7326 the point is this is figurative language used as imagery to reveal a prophecy. There are no souls in heaven praying to God, if your under the alter it is literally as described before the throne of God. Also if these souls are alive speaking with out a body are they spirits?
heaven becomes a very strange place if we take it literally. The problem with Sam and Myles logic is that they are using an all or nothing approach. Adventists aren't saying everything in the passage is symbolic, we are saying what is symbolic is symbolic and what is literal is literal. We aren't saying there weren't people slain for the cause of Christ. Not even Sam and Myles take this passage fully literally. They don't believe there is an actual altar in heaven with a bunch of dead souls underneath it. They are taking what is literal to force the text to support the position they are arguing for.
Your answer is*( in) how many Smiley buttons you put up!
Lol you guys won’t debate Sam and Myles😂 they will obliterate SDA beliefs specially when Myles start quoting your false doctrine version from Ellen g white.
@@Beerus3105 you must be new around here.
@@AdventDefenseLeague lol would you debate myles and sam live? I will email sam if you said yes
@@Beerus3105Ask Myles if he will talk to ADL. See what he says.
@@thatnicekid04you can take SDA down with three questions the math equation from 457 to the end! who Jesus is, in 1st Peter 2:24!!! and who the (souls are in Revelation chapter chapter 20 verse 4 )..and who's judging those Souls!
Sam and Myles are the ones who won’t debate them. Everyone of ADL’s video responses bibcoy refutes all of their accusations. And no we do not need Elle. white to prove a single Bible doctored taught by the SDA church. It’s all in the Bible my friend