what the hell. He sets a timer to "get us the answer quickly" after going on and on for literally half the video essentially repeating the title of the video over and over, giving us the answer in record worst-time.
@@El_Hicks That's why I'm here. What a waste of time. The information was worthless once he did get to it, too. I think people are familiar enough with TH-cam by now that creators can stop asking people to subscribe and click like. People will naturally do that already.
I don't feel you done a fair job of explaining any differences to potential customers. First off shotcrete is the method of which the concrete is being pneumatically applied. Gunite is actually a trade name coined by Carl Akeleyhe as he is the man that originally came up with the process of pneumatically placing cementious materials This is to say whether it is a dry mix (gunite) forced through the hose by air pressure and water added to the mix by a nozzle at the end of the hose or it is premixed concrete pumped through the hose and air pressure is used at the nozzle to spray the material, both are still really shotcreted in place. As you stated though "gunite" is the term used in the pool industry to indicate that the material being used is a dry mix of sand and cement pneumatically forced through the hose with water being added at the nozzle immediately before exiting the tip. Likewise "shotcrete" is the term used to indicate the concrete was premixed, generally at a batch plant where precise control over the mix formula can be obtained, delivered by truck, and placed in a high pressure pump capable of forcing this mixture through the hose and air is used at the nozzle to assist in the placement of the material. As someone that has been in the pool industry for over twenty years and personally operated a shotcrete business for most of those years, I can give my honest opinions of what I think of both processes or material types or methods, whichever you chose to call the difference of the two. Advantages for wet mix "shotcrete" 1) prebatched at a plant with tight control over mix formula and amount of water in the concrete this helps assure strength of the finished product. The amount of water added to dry mix "gunite" is solely the discretion of the nozzleman. 2) different additives can help with placement and cure times needed for various weather conditions one can add calcium to speed set times and help prevent freezing in cold climate or add retarder to increase set times in hot climate 3) Rock or gravel "crushed stone" is almost always added to shotcrete for additional strength other materials such as fiber can also be added for additional strength,on the other hand dry mix "gunite" is strictly sand and cement 4) Since the concrete is mixed with the water already added there is a lot less rebound with shotcrete. rebound is the amount of cement material that falls out of the air stream during placement or either just doesn't stick when it hits the surface it is being applied to. Since sand is heavier and less absorbent than the cement most of the rebound from dry mix "gunite" is mostly sand which needs to be removed from the floor before any new material is applied over it. Advantages for dry mix "gunite" 1) since the mixture is dry right up until it leaves the nozzle the job can be delayed without major concerns of concrete setting up in the hoses, delivery truck or the equipment. 2) with the nozzle operator in control of the amount of water added to the mix he can adjust the consistency immediately to aid in applications that need to be tight enough to stand up on it's own such as when he is beaming the pool out or shooting in steps and benches. ** this advantage can immediately turn into a disadvantage as cement must have enough water to start hydration or it will never reach the cured strength the mix is designed for. This is solely left to the nozzlemans expertise and experience and cant possibly be tightly monitored or controlled. 3) Delivery time of the mix is not as critical as with wet mix "shotcrete". A load of wet concrete stuck in traffic for an hour or so can become useless or a job with no ready mix batch plant within reasonable driving time can cause a lot of grief to a shotcrete crew. Dry mix "gunite" doesn't suffer from this setback as the dry mix can remain in the truck indefinitely without consequence. There are pros and cons to both processes and both have worked amazingly well for many many years. This is just to inform people of the difference and maybe help someone decide which better suits them and their needs. With the owners permission I would like to include a link with more information on the process should anyone care to further their inquiry about the matter. www.shotcrete.org/media/Archive/2018Sum_Guarino-Oakes.pdf
Clint Walker! Thank you for that incredibly detailed reply. We don't mind at all if someone adds more value in a helpful manner. Very well put my friend! If you're ever near our plant in Va stop by. We'll give ya the VIP tour and take some time to shoot a video better explaining the ins and outs of concrete pools! Thanks again!
@Darren Munsell Mixing systems? did you read what i wrote?and if you call shooting wet concrete 6 inches thick on a vertical wall 6 to 8 ft high splattering i hope we can get a shotcrete sub to invite you to hold the hose for a few minutes
Was a nozzleman for many years. One advantage of dry mix is it's reach. I have used over 600' of hose, up a very steep grade to apply it. Also dry mix can even be applied overhead. Wet mix is much faster. Still have not seen the use of the correct technique to minimize rebound and maintain thickness with a dry mix.
Gunite FTW and ALWAYS FTW. My family has been in this business for 50 + years and Gunite is the only way to go unless you want a vinyl liner. Now, there is nothing wrong with vinyl liner pools but the cost point comes down to what you are paying for. Gunite pools are far more expensive because they are not prefabricated molds stuck into the ground. If you want something unique and/ or something beautifully done to your exact specs, gunite is the only way to go.
Which layer of a gunite pool is the water proof barrier? Is it the plaster or the gunite? Right now, I'm in the moisture cure stage of gunite. Ground water is leaking through the gunite wall. Pool contractor is saying this is normal. Thoughts?
So one version is readymix (on site mixing of materials - gunite), whereas the other version is batched off site 'mixed ahead of time' (shotcrete), basically a 'zero' slump mix. Is this about right?
No, that's only for Gunite but Shotcrete is premixed... and there can be just one hopper, typically the other will be the delivery concrete mixer truck and not another hopper unless you're doing it by hand...
I'm enjoying your videos, and learning a lot from them. I do have a question.... I build Monolithic domes, and we spray foam against an airform, hang rebar and shoot shotcrete to create the dome, and it's all done on the inside. We inflate with 2 inches of water column and that keeps one inch of shotcrete sticking to the foam and rebar over head, and if we lose that pressure inside the dome before the shotcrete starts to cure, the shotcrete will fall to the floor. Now my question is this, why don't pool builders ever spray foam on the ground to help insulate the concrete pool shell, like we do when building a concrete dome home? I mean a dome is an upside down pool basically. I spray foam on the ground before pouring a concrete slab, so why not do the same with a pool, especially in colder climates so the pool retains its heat for longer use. Thanks and keep up the great work.
@@RiverPools it seems that it would be a great idea to use foam insulation if you never have to contend with ground water issues. If you were to use a large amount of foam, you would be burying a buoyant object that would float in the groundwater that you are trying to insulate from. Just like a fiberglass pool will float if it's in groundwater, the insulation would create that problem on a much larger scale, because the increased surface area wouldn't be able to be offset by a larger volume of water inside the pool.
because water weighs just a little over 8 lbs per gallon and a fairly large residential pool may hold 30,000 gallons or more, it is extremely important to have a firm soil base for the pool to sit on and to secure the walls to prevent a blowout. I have seen some pools that were shot on wet muddy clay and later have the whole floor drop out of the pool.Besides soil is a fairly good thermal barrier anyhow, a much larger concern is the surface area heat loss
@@RiverPools Good come back . You have a great channel and FYI for all the " know it alls " above that like spouting out all their knowledge, the way you tell it a few minutes at a time is perfect general knowledge for a builder or a homeowner to digest and understand. If they want to know more about the molecular structure of concrete or fiberglass, let them go take a class or buy a book. I've been selling pools for 25 years and a homeowner generally doesn't care if you spoon it in with a butter knife, they just want their pool to look like the picture. Keep on rollin
I'd rather you spent all 4 minutes talking about the difference instead of a rushed 2 minute one. After listening to you talk about nothing for 2 minutes..
Hi Rezorcful! First, thank you for watching. We hope it wasn't a complete waste of your time and that you learned something. Our aim is to give the quick answer to a question we receive from time to time from prospective clients. We'll take the feedback and work to improve our videos in the future. Thanks again!
Had rain a couple of days before shotcrete.. about 2 inches of rain. Is it ok to shotcrete on wet soil? HELP . Don’t want to move forward if it is something I’ll regret
Still unsure if there are any differences, that I would need to know as an owner? I am buying a home and it has a gunite pool. Is there any care issues that we will need to know that are different from the others. We've never owned a pool, so this is all new to us and we don't want to screw up the pool..lol I am a germaphobe, so would it be possible to drain all the water that's in the pool now, so I can clean the inside and then put clean, fresh water in it and if so will it cost me an arm and a leg? Lol
thanks good video i grew up in South Florida i’m now 56 years old and i thought it was 2 different brands all these years i always knew that the Nozzleman was the key to getting a good pour the one thing i used to like watching was the Marsite guys troweling on that material in South Florida it was always a team of older African Americans that were super fast in my early 20s i worked installing ceramic tile on over the Marsite in i ground pools many commercial pools were doing that to lower maintenance costs and upkeep apparently the pool uses way less ch;orine as well ?
@@RiverPools Your info was good. But the preceding 2 minutes of repetitious talking did the video in. Thanks for the info. Always wondered what the difference was.
The first two minutes is just the guy saying what he is gonna talk about. 3 times he says what he is gonna talk about. Recommendation: 10 sec describe topic. Its already on the video title also, so thats twice.
Hello thanks for info, machine used same for spraying of shotcrete and gunite right? i work in a subcon company here in uae, we do spraying of gunite/shotcrete works in swimming pool and piling
Machinery is used for both processes but very different machinery for gunite and shotcrete. For "gunite" the preferred machine is a Reed shotcrete pump and since dry sand and cement is being blown through a 2" hose with nothing but air pressure a very large air compressor is needed generally in the area of 675 cfm + . For shotcrete most shotcrete contractors use a swing tube type hydraulic concrete pump that is capable of applying around 1100 psi of line pressure to force the concrete through the 2" hose. Even the hoses are different as the gunite hoses never have over 200 psi on them they're basically just large air hoses in contrast the shotcrete hoses are reinforced with steel wire much like a hydraulic hose and are capable of pressures exceeding 1200 psi and since the air is only used to spray the concrete in place a much smaller air compressor can be used generally in the area of 185 cfm
If you are making a shallow in ground concrete pool from cinderblocks, rebar, sand and portland cement in a northern climate -- would it be more resiliant to cracks and leaks if you build it on top of a membrane / pond liner? (or is that not a good idea?)
Hi Elliott! First of all, thank you for watching. Second, we appreciate the feedback. Had to do something to make the topic a bit more fun. Didn't always translate, but hopefully you gained some useful knowledge from the video anyway.
Constructive Criticism kindly intended: 2 minutes of intro is FAR FAR FAR too much, "Less is More". Name, company, The difference between Gunite vs Shotcrete is....
Its a 4 minute video and you dont even begin explaining the difference until 1:50. I appreciate the content and what you’re doing, but that is not how you gain an audience this day in age. Get to the point faster and watch your viewcount go up.
You could have spent the first 2 minutes of the video actually explaining the point of this video instead of wasting everyone's time and making it twice as long for no reason. Thumbs down.
![ILLSLICK - THE KING'S LANDING [Freestyle]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/feIJJnNkTfk/mqdefault.jpg)
Starts at 1:47
what the hell. He sets a timer to "get us the answer quickly" after going on and on for literally half the video essentially repeating the title of the video over and over, giving us the answer in record worst-time.
@@El_Hicks Exactly what I was thinking.
Thank you! Time is money.
Not really, 3:18.
@@El_Hicks That's why I'm here. What a waste of time. The information was worthless once he did get to it, too. I think people are familiar enough with TH-cam by now that creators can stop asking people to subscribe and click like. People will naturally do that already.
I don't feel you done a fair job of explaining any differences to potential customers. First off shotcrete is the method of which the concrete is being pneumatically applied. Gunite is actually a trade name coined by Carl Akeleyhe as he is the man that originally came up with the process of pneumatically placing cementious materials This is to say whether it is a dry mix (gunite) forced through the hose by air pressure and water added to the mix by a nozzle at the end of the hose or it is premixed concrete pumped through the hose and air pressure is used at the nozzle to spray the material, both are still really shotcreted in place.
As you stated though "gunite" is the term used in the pool industry to indicate that the material being used is a dry mix of sand and cement pneumatically forced through the hose with water being added at the nozzle immediately before exiting the tip. Likewise "shotcrete" is the term used to indicate the concrete was premixed, generally at a batch plant where precise control over the mix formula can be obtained, delivered by truck, and placed in a high pressure pump capable of forcing this mixture through the hose and air is used at the nozzle to assist in the placement of the material.
As someone that has been in the pool industry for over twenty years and personally operated a shotcrete business for most of those years, I can give my honest opinions of what I think of both processes or material types or methods, whichever you chose to call the difference of the two.
Advantages for wet mix "shotcrete"
1) prebatched at a plant with tight control over mix formula and amount of water in the concrete
this helps assure strength of the finished product. The amount of water added to dry mix "gunite" is solely the discretion of the nozzleman.
2) different additives can help with placement and cure times needed for various weather conditions
one can add calcium to speed set times and help prevent freezing in cold climate or add retarder to increase set times in hot climate
3) Rock or gravel "crushed stone" is almost always added to shotcrete for additional strength
other materials such as fiber can also be added for additional strength,on the other hand dry mix "gunite" is strictly sand and cement
4) Since the concrete is mixed with the water already added there is a lot less rebound with shotcrete.
rebound is the amount of cement material that falls out of the air stream during placement or either just doesn't stick when it hits the surface it is being applied to. Since sand is heavier and less absorbent than the cement most of the rebound from dry mix "gunite" is mostly sand which needs to be removed from the floor before any new material is applied over it.
Advantages for dry mix "gunite"
1) since the mixture is dry right up until it leaves the nozzle the job can be delayed without major concerns of concrete setting up in the hoses, delivery truck or the equipment.
2) with the nozzle operator in control of the amount of water added to the mix he can adjust the consistency immediately to aid in applications that need to be tight enough to stand up on it's own such as when he is beaming the pool out or shooting in steps and benches.
** this advantage can immediately turn into a disadvantage as cement must have enough water to start hydration or it will never reach the cured strength the mix is designed for. This is solely left to the nozzlemans expertise and experience and cant possibly be tightly monitored or controlled.
3) Delivery time of the mix is not as critical as with wet mix "shotcrete". A load of wet concrete stuck in traffic for an hour or so can become useless or a job with no ready mix batch plant within reasonable driving time can cause a lot of grief to a shotcrete crew. Dry mix "gunite" doesn't suffer from this setback as the dry mix can remain in the truck indefinitely without consequence.
There are pros and cons to both processes and both have worked amazingly well for many many years. This is just to inform people of the difference and maybe help someone decide which better suits them and their needs.
With the owners permission I would like to include a link with more information on the process should anyone care to further their inquiry about the matter.
www.shotcrete.org/media/Archive/2018Sum_Guarino-Oakes.pdf
Clint Walker! Thank you for that incredibly detailed reply. We don't mind at all if someone adds more value in a helpful manner. Very well put my friend! If you're ever near our plant in Va stop by. We'll give ya the VIP tour and take some time to shoot a video better explaining the ins and outs of concrete pools! Thanks again!
Thanks for doing what the video advertised but didn't.
Well said. I got all the answers I needed. Very well appreciated. Thank you
Clint Walker thank you now I have an idea of how that works!
@Darren Munsell Mixing systems? did you read what i wrote?and if you call shooting wet concrete 6 inches thick on a vertical wall 6 to 8 ft high splattering i hope we can get a shotcrete sub to invite you to hold the hose for a few minutes
1.5 minutes in on every video until you get to the actual content you came for is annoying.
Sorry Michael. At least it was a consistent 1.5 minutes.
If you watch a video for less than 30 seconds the creator earns nothing from TH-cam, that's why every single video has long bla bla bla intros.
Thankfully most video don’t cater to your sever ADD. Maybe something you should work on. Good luck with that.
Was a nozzleman for many years. One advantage of dry mix is it's reach. I have used over 600' of hose, up a very steep grade to apply it. Also dry mix can even be applied overhead. Wet mix is much faster. Still have not seen the use of the correct technique to minimize rebound and maintain thickness with a dry mix.
Gunite or shot Crete? Which you prefer
Gunite FTW and ALWAYS FTW. My family has been in this business for 50 + years and Gunite is the only way to go unless you want a vinyl liner. Now, there is nothing wrong with vinyl liner pools but the cost point comes down to what you are paying for. Gunite pools are far more expensive because they are not prefabricated molds stuck into the ground. If you want something unique and/ or something beautifully done to your exact specs, gunite is the only way to go.
Customizability is a DISTINCT advantage of gunite and vinyl liner pools. Thank you for offering your thoughts Austin!
Which layer of a gunite pool is the water proof barrier? Is it the plaster or the gunite?
Right now, I'm in the moisture cure stage of gunite. Ground water is leaking through the gunite wall. Pool contractor is saying this is normal. Thoughts?
So the difference is entirely a matter of how it's applied? There's no difference in the composition of the cement itself?
Thank you for that tidbit of info. I had been wondering about the difference.
Well…some up the info he provided…in under 2 seconds. It depends on where it is mixed. Done. Did I beat the timer?
So one version is readymix (on site mixing of materials - gunite), whereas the other version is batched off site 'mixed ahead of time' (shotcrete), basically a 'zero' slump mix. Is this about right?
Not premixed in the hopper like he said
There are two hoppers the materials are mixed and shot dry down the hose
No, that's only for Gunite but Shotcrete is premixed... and there can be just one hopper, typically the other will be the delivery concrete mixer truck and not another hopper unless you're doing it by hand...
I'm enjoying your videos, and learning a lot from them. I do have a question....
I build Monolithic domes, and we spray foam against an airform, hang rebar and shoot shotcrete to create the dome, and it's all done on the inside. We inflate with 2 inches of water column and that keeps one inch of shotcrete sticking to the foam and rebar over head, and if we lose that pressure inside the dome before the shotcrete starts to cure, the shotcrete will fall to the floor.
Now my question is this, why don't pool builders ever spray foam on the ground to help insulate the concrete pool shell, like we do when building a concrete dome home?
I mean a dome is an upside down pool basically. I spray foam on the ground before pouring a concrete slab, so why not do the same with a pool, especially in colder climates so the pool retains its heat for longer use. Thanks and keep up the great work.
You've got us on this one.
@@RiverPools it seems that it would be a great idea to use foam insulation if you never have to contend with ground water issues. If you were to use a large amount of foam, you would be burying a buoyant object that would float in the groundwater that you are trying to insulate from. Just like a fiberglass pool will float if it's in groundwater, the insulation would create that problem on a much larger scale, because the increased surface area wouldn't be able to be offset by a larger volume of water inside the pool.
because water weighs just a little over 8 lbs per gallon and a fairly large residential pool may hold 30,000 gallons or more, it is extremely important to have a firm soil base for the pool to sit on and to secure the walls to prevent a blowout. I have seen some pools that were shot on wet muddy clay and later have the whole floor drop out of the pool.Besides soil is a fairly good thermal barrier anyhow, a much larger concern is the surface area heat loss
Gunite is a sand base mix and shotcrete is a sand and stone mix
Sand is small pieces of stones
1/3 of the video was just blabber
Hi xzibit8614! Hopefully the other 2/3rds offered you something of value.
@@RiverPools Good come back . You have a great channel and FYI for all the " know it alls " above that like spouting out all their knowledge, the way you tell it a few minutes at a time is perfect general knowledge for a builder or a homeowner to digest and understand. If they want to know more about the molecular structure of concrete or fiberglass, let them go take a class or buy a book. I've been selling pools for 25 years and a homeowner generally doesn't care if you spoon it in with a butter knife, they just want their pool to look like the picture. Keep on rollin
Can you do a video on concrete cancer?
I'd rather you spent all 4 minutes talking about the difference instead of a rushed 2 minute one. After listening to you talk about nothing for 2 minutes..
Hi Rezorcful! First, thank you for watching. We hope it wasn't a complete waste of your time and that you learned something. Our aim is to give the quick answer to a question we receive from time to time from prospective clients. We'll take the feedback and work to improve our videos in the future. Thanks again!
Answered my questions bro …thanks.
Had rain a couple of days before shotcrete.. about 2 inches of rain. Is it ok to shotcrete on wet soil? HELP . Don’t want to move forward if it is something I’ll regret
Still unsure if there are any differences, that I would need to know as an owner? I am buying a home and it has a gunite pool. Is there any care issues that we will need to know that are different from the others. We've never owned a pool, so this is all new to us and we don't want to screw up the pool..lol I am a germaphobe, so would it be possible to drain all the water that's in the pool now, so I can clean the inside and then put clean, fresh water in it and if so will it cost me an arm and a leg? Lol
I just love these videos. You'e really helped us understand!
thanks good video i grew up in South Florida i’m now 56 years old and i thought it was 2 different brands all these years i always knew that the Nozzleman was the key to getting a good pour the one thing i used to like watching was the Marsite guys troweling on that material in South Florida it was always a team of older African Americans that were super fast in my early 20s i worked installing ceramic tile on over the Marsite in i ground pools many commercial pools were doing that to lower maintenance costs and upkeep apparently the pool uses way less ch;orine as well ?
Skip to 2 minutes you're welcome
Johnny Bash, thanks for watching and helping our viewers out. This video in particular just didn't fare well in the eyes of critics. LOL
@@RiverPools Your info was good. But the preceding 2 minutes of repetitious talking did the video in. Thanks for the info. Always wondered what the difference was.
The first two minutes is just the guy saying what he is gonna talk about. 3 times he says what he is gonna talk about. Recommendation: 10 sec describe topic. Its already on the video title also, so thats twice.
Took you 1:50 to start explaining bro
Hello thanks for info, machine used same for spraying of shotcrete and gunite right? i work in a subcon company here in uae, we do spraying of gunite/shotcrete works in swimming pool and piling
Hi, Irene Padre,
Yes, a machine is used to spray the shotcrete or gunite. Thanks for watching!
Machinery is used for both processes but very different machinery for gunite and shotcrete. For "gunite" the preferred machine is a Reed shotcrete pump and since dry sand and cement is being blown through a 2" hose with nothing but air pressure a very large air compressor is needed generally in the area of 675 cfm + . For shotcrete most shotcrete contractors use a swing tube type hydraulic concrete pump that is capable of applying around 1100 psi of line pressure to force the concrete through the 2" hose. Even the hoses are different as the gunite hoses never have over 200 psi on them they're basically just large air hoses in contrast the shotcrete hoses are reinforced with steel wire much like a hydraulic hose and are capable of pressures exceeding 1200 psi and since the air is only used to spray the concrete in place a much smaller air compressor can be used generally in the area of 185 cfm
Hi, do you need to wear a face mask in using gunite and in using shotcrete?
Personal protective equipment is always a must.
how are you going to smoke a cigarette if you're wearing a face mask?
@@clintwalker316 now we're talking reality
Precise, 1:47 starting
If you are making a shallow in ground concrete pool from cinderblocks, rebar, sand and portland cement in a northern climate -- would it be more resiliant to cracks and leaks if you build it on top of a membrane / pond liner? (or is that not a good idea?)
Not necessarily. The solidity of the base it's built on will have a greater impact on the lifetime of the structure.
Love the video
Thank you
Informative part actually starts at 1:50
So much talk... inaccurate substance. Go to 1:48.
Cut out the first minute 46 seconds dude.
Hi Elliott! First of all, thank you for watching. Second, we appreciate the feedback. Had to do something to make the topic a bit more fun. Didn't always translate, but hopefully you gained some useful knowledge from the video anyway.
Constructive Criticism kindly intended: 2 minutes of intro is FAR FAR FAR too much, "Less is More". Name, company, The difference between Gunite vs Shotcrete is....
1:47 until you get to anything meaningful...could have been a 30 sec video.
You wasted 1:51 in the beginning
Eesh. Apparently not a homerun episode...we'll do better 😉
Where am I?
Its a 4 minute video and you dont even begin explaining the difference until 1:50. I appreciate the content and what you’re doing, but that is not how you gain an audience this day in age. Get to the point faster and watch your viewcount go up.
Yeah...of course. EVERYONE who starts a youtube channel starts somewhere...and they get better as they go. Thanks for the feedback👍
You could have spent the first 2 minutes of the video actually explaining the point of this video instead of wasting everyone's time and making it twice as long for no reason. Thumbs down.
You don't know the difference between the two
I'm an guniter... this guy is daft at best
All you gunite guys say the same thing about him! Take it easy on him. You'll give him a complex. 😂
Shotcrete is betwr
Always speed up video lol
I wonder if it’s necessary to beg for likes and subscribers?
We'd sub you but you never asked.
This is how we do it th-cam.com/video/lrzaHVapagI/w-d-xo.html
2 minutes in with zero useful information. downvote
Starts at 1:47
starts at 2:03