Wow.. A video that actually goes into detail and not just a someone firing at the same thing with two different weapons and saying "uhhh..Ghorns better?" Thanks Datto!
BlahBlahBlah BlahBlahBlah I agree. People will cry, but the Sleeper is a beast. My sleeper always comes with 12 rounds because of my armamentarium. With that chest piece, the gally only gets 7 total rockets. So 5 more sleeper shots than his test vs only one more rocket than in his test. There is simply no comparison.
Julian Grubb haha, the world first team Redem used ghorn in their first run FOR AD CLEARING ! Any raid that they are doing now they use sleeper exclusively. They all used sleeper and one rounded Vosic and killed him. And you can hold 15 sleeper rounds, max is not 12
I prefer this over gjallarhorn being the only viable exotic weapon for boss fights. Besides, the horn is still more reliable (doesn't need a crit shot and it has tracking) and, unlike the sleeper, can be used for crowd control when needed.
this is why I love you datto. you take the patience and time (no pun intended) to calculate and do all sorts of videos that prove so many points and help us all out. This is why you are always my go to guy for good reliable destiny information
nope, twilight garrison, armamenterium (botched that name), starfire protocol, purifire robes, alchemists raiment and transversive steps all come with that perk
Try combining an exotic increased heavy perk with a normal increased fusion rifle perk. I don't think they stack anymore because exotic heavy was buffed but try anyway.
I believe sleeper stimulant no longer works with "bonus fusion rifle ammo" (used to work, when sleeper had a max of 7 shots by default, but was patched).
I have noticed that the exotic heavy buff gives 2 rockets whereas a rockets buff only gives 1. Heavy buff ysed to give 1 but they buffed it and gave it an ammo cap so heavy and rockets couldnt be stacked. At least, I think so lol
with this and the outbreak prime questline and hopefully more important weapon comparisons to come I see you're becoming honestly far more significant in deciphering the content of rise of iron than any other community member so for that I thank you datto
Guys just admit it. I've been saying it since year... Going all out on Melting Points, Tethers, Ammo Perks and reload gaunlets... anything you can think of won't change the simple fact that Sleeper Simulant is better than the Gjallarhorn.
In sheer damage, yes. But I still prefer the gjallarhorn for it's ease of use, and the fact that it's usable outside of boss encounters since it can hit crowds of enemies.
Ghorn is also versatile.The tracking just makes it way easier to hit him while you really have to aim with Sleeper and the charge time just makes me say "I prefer Ghorn but in damage potential,sadly Sleeper is better."But if you're talking bout versatility,ease of use and crowd control,then Ghorn would be the best for you.
I completely agree with you however g horn is way more versatile than sleeper so I prefer g horn over sleeper but I'm not going to call someone out because they are using sleeper.
People need to stop with this year 1 gjally when the gun is the same. Nothing in year 1 can melt more than an enemy with shadowshit on and anyone's heavy of choice, mine is dragons breath i can argue that its better than both but sleepers reserve ammo IMO is what makes it top 9 rounds is better than 6 any day. Then we move on to dragons breaths napalm outshining gjallys wolfrounds (you can even stack fire). Nothing makes me laugh harder than people saying og dragons breath was better.
Done a couple Aksis fights with Dogma and one with OP. I feel like OP does more work simply because of the passive perk. Those nanites ignore your LL and do damage according to the target's LL. Our team with three Primes had him at around 20% by the end of the third pillar phase. Dogma is a really sweet gun, but I think OP is better in the raid (and literally only the raid. A good legendary scout is better in all other PvE and a good PDX/Hawksaw is better in PvP).
I just made my own comparison on this finally after finally getting the time to do it. Things have changed a bit since this video from you, Datto, but seems you and I came to about the same findings. Granted, not much to change. I say this as I didn't watch this video til now, so thanks for backing up my thoughts that I can do these kinds of videos.
Note: if you are a Siva charge thrower like I am ghorn is better. I need to both throw the Siva cluster and pop weapons of light which burns about 2-3 possible simulant shots so yes in this instance ghorn is ALOT better
It's better to use your heavies on the 3rd stun anyway since you get more DPS time. First two stuns should always be snipers or primaries that do ridiculous DPS. 3rd stun should be canons and heavies. So Simulant still can be the more suitable option.
pop your bubble earlier. You're not gonna run out of time and it lets you start charging the next one. depending on where you throw the charge, it's possible to have weapons ready when the shield goes down.
Datto doesn't get enough credit for how much work he does. I mean he has probably been working on this for a long time. Keep up the fantastic work Datto!
Don't think there was ever any doubt that Sleeper does more damage than Gjallarhorn even when it was in it's prime in Year One. Why Gjallarhorn edges Sleeper for many people is the shoot and forget aspect of the weapon. Sleeper requires you to stand still and carefully aim. Another reason is ad control, trash mobs can be cleared in the blink of an eye using Gjallarhorn something of which Sleeper cannot do. Swords require you to get up close which is a no go on most Ultras in the game and is pretty much a death sentence running head first into high level mobs or majors. For utilitarian purposes, Gjallarhorn is the best heavy weapon in the game. Low risk and high reward, allows more player maneuverability, good for both single targets and multiple targets at relatively close distances and at longer ranges.
thats debatable for sleeper stimulate to out preform y1 ghorn. keep in mind wolfpack rounds y1 did more damage and had more wolfpack rounds lol so overall ghorn year 1 would win by a mile. But y2 yes ghorn is better due to being more maneuvarable
For people using Outbreak Prime in the raid, what heavy are you using? I've tried the raid rocket but that thing is just ass. Thinking about going back and using my Qullims MG from Kings Fall
SneakyBeaver I got a Tripod / Tracking Steel Oracle from Crucible that has been working pretty damn well for me so far. I assume most rockets with Tracking or Grenades and Horseshoes would do alright though.
Datto i think you calculated something wrong. Some random guy on the internet tested these on kalli, and he found out that hothead was a top dps weapon. I expect an update video asap, thanks
Interesting stuff, thanks for gathering the data Datto. Other DPS questions I'd be interested in is Snipers vs Heavy Weapons (more specifically Black Spindle vs Sleeper Simulant). So in a single damage phase which puts out more damage if you dump out as much fire as you can. And what about swords as well (probably not as useful for raid bosses tbf). Outbreak Prime I would be interested to hear about as well, what with it's mini wolfpack rounds every few bursts & precision kills.
Sweet, now my list of further things to be tested include; -outbreak prime -Does the Young Wolf's howl weakening effect stack with tether and weapons (I think it does)
Blind Perdition My man...big ups to u for playing the game purely for fun and not worrying bout all these complicated and unnecessary math equations and people telling u how to play the game. Salute to u bro
Great video datto! Really shows a solid comparison between the two. Something that I've always though of in this situation is also versatility for the rest of the encounter (which is why I go with ghorn). Sleeper wouldn't be great for clearing large groups of ads. Ghorn, provided you are getting enough ammo drops, can also help wipe out ads if you start losing control; but this is just my two cents. Would love to hear your opinion on this.
Ayrton Sy you gotta keep this in mind as well, that the gjallahorn got nerfed in year 1 before the taken king came out. So the year 1 gjallahorn is stronger than the current ghorn.
haven't played destiny since ttk because i switcehd to PC, used to always be on the bleeding edge of levels and content becuase I had way to much free time, last played date is november 1st and I have 1400 hours logged, I really hope the rumors that destiny 2 coming to pc are true
great video. I always enjoy your analysis on weapons. I was actually thinking about wanting to ask you to make a video for ghorn vs. sleeper but you were right on it. great vid Datto
Thank you for being smart and supporting you claims and going into depth i love it when people actually do this especially when you spend so much time and do the research yourself
why ghorn will always be better: -does fantastic dps -looks better (lul) -can use it in clutch situations because it drops ads like crazy -sleeper is good but only works on single targets and you feel like you have to save the ammo for dps phases. -ghorn sounds beast and makes you feel like a badass -it's a fucking ghorn
Another thing is with armor bonuses ghorn can get 7 with 2 armor prices which makes you loose out on other perks that could be more valuable but the sleeper (on a titan) can get 12 blasts with a single armor piece (the armamentarium) which also allows an extra grenade which helps for ads so I've been using my sleeper over my ghorn. The worst downside to sleeper is that the fusion bast bounces and can bounce back into you which has happened to me more than once but the blast bouncing can also be amazing when you get a headshot then the blast bounces back into the boss taking the shot from about 40k to 60k but that's just luck. The ammo capacity is what won me over and with 12 it does like 1/4th dmg more than a ghorn does which is by far a huge improvement
Memo that's true, but it'd also matter if you wanted to use it for your exotic slot, you could use sleeper and devil's dawn if you really wanted. Sure you may never need to use the sleeper..or gjhallehorn, whatever you prefer, but I say it'd just prefer if you would rather use the black spindle and use up your exotic slot, or use devil's dawn and lose the exotic perk
Amazing and informative video as always Datto. I gotta start bringing my Sleeper with me more often. The next video you gotta do is how practical is Raze Lighter in the Aksis fight?
Spindle actually does LESS damage than the sleeper, the only time spindle was better to use than sleeper was at golgoroth because there is much less time to DPS/reload compared to the warpriest. Sleeper can also stagger oryx in one shot, so it's better than ToM (not for sisters, but oryx) since you can't use ToM without the aura anymore like with a bubble titan (they patched that I think).
Really bad scientific example. Way to many variables with bubble, armor abilities, boss with adds and adding in other weapons. If you are doing a weapon vs weapon comparison it should be about the base weapon stats and nothing else. You can add modifiers after the fact if you want.
Weapons of light gives a straight 25%/35% damage boost. I don't see any problem here. He wanted to compare the damage output, shooting a boss and compare the numbers is the obvious choice. How are you comparing a rocket launcher with a (heavy) fusion rifle based on the base stats?
Weapons of Light doesn't work on Rockets. So sleeper is getting the full 35% buff while Gjallarhorn isn't. He should have compared the base shots without any buffs such as Weapons of Light. In that case, Sleeper's damage would have been a lot lower than what Datto showed. Making it more in-line with the Gjally. Having said that, in an actual Raid, you can easily have both weapons of light and tether, up, so if sleeper is boosted by both and gjally is mainly boosted by tether, then yes, sleeper would output more overall damage. Gjallarhorn is still much more versatile though, since it can easily be fired while running, jumping, moving etc. And it's great at clearing large groups of enemies, whereas the Sleeper is more of a single target weapon, like the Spindle.
Anonymous BSK I'm not trying to act smart. It's just common sense when doing a study. Errors in spelling happen, doesn't mean a person is any less smart.
superb video. I always down with the mathematical breakdowns. and the fact that you put a full line graph together. man, you're Amazing. thanks for the video. I definitely look forward to future videos. Maybe a comparison of exotic Snipers (in Range, max damage at range, and total damage dealt before having to reload) ?
Vexil he's showing how your dps is changing as time progresses, this is to show why he's using total damage, instead of a dps figure. Pay attention to what he's saying.
that's actually not true. I'm not 100% sure how datto did it but it looked like a dps over time graph to me. That's why the dps averages out as time goes on. if it was just damage over time it would be a bunch of spikes on a graph that all have a relatively similar peak. So it is a damage over time over time graph.
GambetGO I disagree. The whole DAMAGE per SECOND means that damage should go OVER (Y axis is over X axis) seconds on the graph. I'm not mad, just educating :)
You can have anything over anything as long as it makes sense. Here he's using damage over time as it fluctuates over a period of time. That's totally fine.
Anthony Sullivan No, they reduced the damage of wolfpack rounds by 33%...not 50%. Sleeper stimulant hits like a beast, pre nerf ghorn never did that kind of damage... Ghorn es better overall but in Damage, SS is superior
It isn't but neither is sleeper. sleeper has a chance to ricochet and kill you and you need to make sure it hits. Ghorn has tracking and is good for clearing adds all stacked up. it's personal preference of which one you think.
Honestly its not the best but its the go to. Throw it on and your normally covered for any situation. Can't say that about a lot of other heavy weapons.
Holy shot - good vid. I was talking this during Templar and saying that it's more consistent to use ganjahorny instead of sleeper as you can jump and fire and also mash more rockets. Although sleeper is more powerful he turns and it's possible to kiss crit shots while you can still spam the ganjala-horna
Sleeper was the first exotic I had to work for and boy was it a fun one, but handling the gun was great and I instantly fell in love with it when I saw the damage output then It was just glued to my heavy slot.
Great video, it was REALLY helpful (like most of your videos). How about some primary weapons damage comparison for the next one- Outbreak Prime, CHAOS DOGMA~, SUROS Regime, No Time To Explain, maybe Thorn and Hawkmoon.... Just thinking about all the primaries that give you extra damage\RoF\mag size.
The legendary rocket launcher named Something Wicked, from the crucible vendor, I found out that the cluster bomb perk did ALOT more damage than woflpack rounds, and since Aksis is a very large boss, all clusters actually hits the boss for around 3.5k damage each, adds up weapon of light, it is even better. I strongly advise you guys to test it.
THANK YOU for the raid spoiler warning in the beginning Datto. Most youtuber's wouldn't do that still this late, but as someone still trying to go through blind I appreciate this.
excellent vid man, love the way you actually take the time to break everything down and do the math! same with tether vs melting point or the golgoroth super crit. :)
I had similar results when testing the black spindle to the sleeper back when I was doing the Oryx raid. I found that while the spindle could output theoretically more dps, as soon as it ran out of ammo (which often happened during warpriest for example) The other weapons at your disposal cause it's overall damage to fall off. I found that if I used the Sleeper for the full 9 rounds, then switch to my 1kys until the damage phase ended, I always ended up far out dpsing everyone in my party who was using black spindles. Trying to get into PUGs while not using Spindle was a pain but they always saw that I out dps'd them if we ever happened to die.
Dont forget the Raid gauntlets can roll with Fusion Rifle reloader which works on the Sleeper and a sniper with Surplus will give you 5-6 Sleeper ammo per "normal" brick!
Suffering through your math?? Dude you did all that work and suffering to get us the numbers! Thanks man! Awesome vid! I was always curious about the numbers between these two. To think that you went ahead and did this. Man you're crazy lol
I don't understand why there are dislikes on this video. He's being completely unbiased, and this is the best video covering this topic without a doubt.
raze lighter, sleepers, and fully charged shock cannons on aksis. how this works is you have 3 with raze ligher and 3 with sleepers or gallys. raze lighter uppercut the captains (2 to kill). Gally/sleepers grab the cannons for the servitors. razelighers ONLY rotate on double empowerment. upon first teleport dps. drop 2 gally shots or 3 sleeper shots. razelighers use snipers and primaries. repeat for 2nd dps. on third dps. raze lighters uppercut Aksis while the remaining 3 use the fully charged cannons. (use of weapons of light and tethers are assumed for 3rd dps). drop an ammo synth if need be during the wait in the safety zones.
Wow.. A video that actually goes into detail and not just a someone firing at the same thing with two different weapons and saying "uhhh..Ghorns better?" Thanks Datto!
g-horn use to be so good know is a piece of shit
BlahBlahBlah BlahBlahBlah I agree. People will cry, but the Sleeper is a beast. My sleeper always comes with 12 rounds because of my armamentarium. With that chest piece, the gally only gets 7 total rockets. So 5 more sleeper shots than his test vs only one more rocket than in his test. There is simply no comparison.
Bobby Y since when do you play destiny ?????
Anthony Fernando Since the beta in 2014. Why?
Bobby Y because your sleeper was not always the best one
And most raid teams bitched at me at for using the Sleeper.
I'm with you team sleeper
Yeah, I love the sleeper but I like having everything on the game so I would like to have every weapon
If anyone says anything to me about using Sleeper, I ask them if they can hold 12 G-Horn rockets. It shuts them up lol.
Julian Grubb put'em to sleep •__• !!!
Julian Grubb haha, the world first team Redem used ghorn in their first run FOR AD CLEARING ! Any raid that they are doing now they use sleeper exclusively. They all used sleeper and one rounded Vosic and killed him. And you can hold 15 sleeper rounds, max is not 12
This is G-Horn with the 33% Wolfpack round damage nerf... RIP year 1 :(
ReskahVFX I think you are right
I prefer this over gjallarhorn being the only viable exotic weapon for boss fights.
Besides, the horn is still more reliable (doesn't need a crit shot and it has tracking) and, unlike the sleeper, can be used for crowd control when needed.
Actually it was a 30% Wolfpack rounds damage reduction.
Armybro 317 Been wondering can people who came in year 3 can they still get the sleeper simulant
The nerf wasnt so bad.They coulf have done 50-80% damage decrease.
If solar burn is on, it's basically like having a year one Ghorn.
SwiftyLovesYou or a year GOD SLEEPER
damn straight
solar burn doesn't happen in raid
well all the best dps weapons do solar, so we would have godmode weapons for solar burn! 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Fact. "Burn the World. Burn it all."
Too much math for me. I'll just start using the truth
Bill Nye what if it had science?
Bill Nye no ghorn is better truth is shit
truth is just another legendary launcher its perk isnt even that exotic
Well in crucible the truth is way better than Ghorn in my op. The trackers function is really really good most of the time. Its not like the ghorn
truth wasn't affected by the rocket nerf, but gjallarhorn is still better
I love how analytical you are and that you show your work so clearly. Please keep it up! I've loved this channel since its inception.
Oh how time repeats itself.
this is why I love you datto. you take the patience and time (no pun intended) to calculate and do all sorts of videos that prove so many points and help us all out. This is why you are always my go to guy for good reliable destiny information
Sleeper becomes even better when you throw on a heavy perk it holds 12 over g horns 7 max
Wow does it really? Is that only with the Year 1 Heavy Ammo bonus or does it work with things like Armamentarium?
nope, twilight garrison, armamenterium (botched that name), starfire protocol, purifire robes, alchemists raiment and transversive steps all come with that perk
Try combining an exotic increased heavy perk with a normal increased fusion rifle perk. I don't think they stack anymore because exotic heavy was buffed but try anyway.
I believe sleeper stimulant no longer works with "bonus fusion rifle ammo" (used to work, when sleeper had a max of 7 shots by default, but was patched).
I have noticed that the exotic heavy buff gives 2 rockets whereas a rockets buff only gives 1. Heavy buff ysed to give 1 but they buffed it and gave it an ammo cap so heavy and rockets couldnt be stacked. At least, I think so lol
with this and the outbreak prime questline and hopefully more important weapon comparisons to come I see you're becoming honestly far more significant in deciphering the content of rise of iron than any other community member so for that I thank you datto
why isn't sleeper affected by fusion rifle ammo perks?
its a heavy not a special
Vex Mythoclast is affected by fusion perks, and it's a primary. The slot isn't as important as the weapon type in most cases.
Heavys are diffent than primaries harder to get ammo for that's why
It was boosted by fusion ammo perks before but they were unfortunately patched, SS could hold a ton of shots before :
but it is a fusion rifle, it is classified as one.
Guys just admit it. I've been saying it since year... Going all out on Melting Points, Tethers, Ammo Perks and reload gaunlets... anything you can think of won't change the simple fact that Sleeper Simulant is better than the Gjallarhorn.
In sheer damage, yes. But I still prefer the gjallarhorn for it's ease of use, and the fact that it's usable outside of boss encounters since it can hit crowds of enemies.
Ghorn is also versatile.The tracking just makes it way easier to hit him while you really have to aim with Sleeper and the charge time just makes me say "I prefer Ghorn but in damage potential,sadly Sleeper is better."But if you're talking bout versatility,ease of use and crowd control,then Ghorn would be the best for you.
I completely agree with you however g horn is way more versatile than sleeper so I prefer g horn over sleeper but I'm not going to call someone out because they are using sleeper.
Ανδρέας Κατσαρός gjallarhorn back in year one makes sleeper look like a water pistol
People need to stop with this year 1 gjally when the gun is the same. Nothing in year 1 can melt more than an enemy with shadowshit on and anyone's heavy of choice, mine is dragons breath i can argue that its better than both but sleepers reserve ammo IMO is what makes it top 9 rounds is better than 6 any day. Then we move on to dragons breaths napalm outshining gjallys wolfrounds (you can even stack fire). Nothing makes me laugh harder than people saying og dragons breath was better.
holy shit outbreak prime was putting in some serious work at the end can you test that soon
He already did a review of the weapon, but do you mean it in the raid?
I want to see it's boss dps
dogma im pretty sure would win
While I'd really like to see prime versus dogma, I imagine it'd be very difficult to count the nanite thingys.
Done a couple Aksis fights with Dogma and one with OP. I feel like OP does more work simply because of the passive perk. Those nanites ignore your LL and do damage according to the target's LL. Our team with three Primes had him at around 20% by the end of the third pillar phase. Dogma is a really sweet gun, but I think OP is better in the raid (and literally only the raid. A good legendary scout is better in all other PvE and a good PDX/Hawksaw is better in PvP).
I just made my own comparison on this finally after finally getting the time to do it. Things have changed a bit since this video from you, Datto, but seems you and I came to about the same findings. Granted, not much to change. I say this as I didn't watch this video til now, so thanks for backing up my thoughts that I can do these kinds of videos.
I was the year 2 Gjallarhorn after all.
fuck u,u won't go down in destiny history
Misfit3815 ok
Outbreak Prime it was dark drinker all along...
Then you get destroyed by nightfall minotaurs.
Note: if you are a Siva charge thrower like I am ghorn is better. I need to both throw the Siva cluster and pop weapons of light which burns about 2-3 possible simulant shots so yes in this instance ghorn is ALOT better
It's better to use your heavies on the 3rd stun anyway since you get more DPS time. First two stuns should always be snipers or primaries that do ridiculous DPS. 3rd stun should be canons and heavies. So Simulant still can be the more suitable option.
with constant dps on raid bosses they will always get stunned so simulant again doesn't really fit this
pop your bubble earlier. You're not gonna run out of time and it lets you start charging the next one. depending on where you throw the charge, it's possible to have weapons ready when the shield goes down.
I'm always on one of the sides (either left or right)
Tbh ghorn is better in general. Reload canceling allows me to get two mags of devils dawn and 7 ghorn shots off
I love the sound of the stimulant
Datto doesn't get enough credit for how much work he does. I mean he has probably been working on this for a long time. Keep up the fantastic work Datto!
Don't think there was ever any doubt that Sleeper does more damage than Gjallarhorn even when it was in it's prime in Year One.
Why Gjallarhorn edges Sleeper for many people is the shoot and forget aspect of the weapon. Sleeper requires you to stand still and carefully aim. Another reason is ad control, trash mobs can be cleared in the blink of an eye using Gjallarhorn something of which Sleeper cannot do. Swords require you to get up close which is a no go on most Ultras in the game and is pretty much a death sentence running head first into high level mobs or majors.
For utilitarian purposes, Gjallarhorn is the best heavy weapon in the game. Low risk and high reward, allows more player maneuverability, good for both single targets and multiple targets at relatively close distances and at longer ranges.
thats debatable for sleeper stimulate to out preform y1 ghorn. keep in mind wolfpack rounds y1 did more damage and had more wolfpack rounds lol so overall ghorn year 1 would win by a mile.
But y2 yes ghorn is better due to being more maneuvarable
Sleeper wins if glalaronh
For people using Outbreak Prime in the raid, what heavy are you using? I've tried the raid rocket but that thing is just ass. Thinking about going back and using my Qullims MG from Kings Fall
Im using a tripod grenades and horseshoes ash factory and getting good results
SneakyBeaver I use quillims
SneakyBeaver I got a Tripod / Tracking Steel Oracle from Crucible that has been working pretty damn well for me so far. I assume most rockets with Tracking or Grenades and Horseshoes would do alright though.
Raid rocket does good damage
Raid rocket is amazing... 4 shots in the chamber makes for incredible DPS.
Datto i think you calculated something wrong. Some random guy on the internet tested these on kalli, and he found out that hothead was a top dps weapon. I expect an update video asap, thanks
This was from destiny 1😂
datto you're destiny experiments are better than any thing at the science fair back in high school
How about Raze Lighter?
Uh, you'd end up dead since he'd melee you.
If you use armor of light plus saint 14 it does more dpa
Dps*
Dark drinker is my favorite
Mr. Vegetable the Raze Lighter had a ranged arc attack as well
Can't wait to see the other weapon comparisons!
Datto I have a challenge for u, Aksis boss battle with only universal remote a shotgun and a sword
peter minneci no
Interesting stuff, thanks for gathering the data Datto.
Other DPS questions I'd be interested in is Snipers vs Heavy Weapons (more specifically Black Spindle vs Sleeper Simulant). So in a single damage phase which puts out more damage if you dump out as much fire as you can.
And what about swords as well (probably not as useful for raid bosses tbf).
Outbreak Prime I would be interested to hear about as well, what with it's mini wolfpack rounds every few bursts & precision kills.
Equip a y1 exotic chest.
Use heavy synth
Get 15 Sleeper Shots
RIP debate.
josecitoxnyo what chest is it? Armamentarium only lets you hold up 12,I don't know what you are talking about bro:/
Equip a y1 exotic chest.
Lose 20 light.
No longer do any damage whatsoever
you can just switch back
You can equip back your year 3 chest and still have 15
You don't keep the chest on lol
I love when you do these DPS videos. they are very helpful and informative.
Praise the Destiny Jesus Datto
Sweet, now my list of further things to be tested include;
-outbreak prime
-Does the Young Wolf's howl weakening effect stack with tether and weapons (I think it does)
Meh, i like sleeper better so ima use it regardless of dam. Im gonna play the game for fun, not for the best i possibly can
as what datto said.....
k
lol...
yea i know he does, im just saying even if g horn did more dam., and i know it doesnt, i would use sleeper regardless
Blind Perdition My man...big ups to u for playing the game purely for fun and not worrying bout all these complicated and unnecessary math equations and people telling u how to play the game. Salute to u bro
Great video datto! Really shows a solid comparison between the two. Something that I've always though of in this situation is also versatility for the rest of the encounter (which is why I go with ghorn). Sleeper wouldn't be great for clearing large groups of ads. Ghorn, provided you are getting enough ammo drops, can also help wipe out ads if you start losing control; but this is just my two cents. Would love to hear your opinion on this.
So sleeper is better.. Lol no wonder the quest for the ghorn was easy af
Ayrton Sy you gotta keep this in mind as well, that the gjallahorn got nerfed in year 1 before the taken king came out. So the year 1 gjallahorn is stronger than the current ghorn.
Obviously
:)
One Ghorn rocket does more damage than a sleeper shot though
Well honestly, so was the SS quest. Both were pretty easy.
Awesome video man! I would love to see some other weapon comparisons in the future. Especially the Black Spindle. I haven't used it in a while
haven't played destiny since ttk because i switcehd to PC, used to always be on the bleeding edge of levels and content becuase I had way to much free time, last played date is november 1st and I have 1400 hours logged, I really hope the rumors that destiny 2 coming to pc are true
great video. I always enjoy your analysis on weapons. I was actually thinking about wanting to ask you to make a video for ghorn vs. sleeper but you were right on it. great vid Datto
I went in blind into the Wrath of The Machine on Saturday and I left with my ass beaten and my soul crushed. Aksis is the bane of my existence.
It isn’t if you have a good team.
the community needs you Datto !
I'm just sitting here wrecking face with my Raze Lighter...
Thank you for being smart and supporting you claims and going into depth i love it when people actually do this especially when you spend so much time and do the research yourself
now you can test them in destiny 2
Datto I love these math based videos. They provide an outlook on the game that no other TH-cam gives. Thanks for putting up with all the craziness!
Sleeper was always my preferred pve exotic
Nothing's better than a big laser cannon
I call it "The Rasputin Rifle"
this
Rasputin Big Ol' lazer Gun
*mini Spartan laser
This is why we need people like you..keep up the great work Datto..Was waiting for this as I believed that Sleeper was better for Boss DPS
why ghorn will always be better:
-does fantastic dps
-looks better (lul)
-can use it in clutch situations because it drops ads like crazy
-sleeper is good but only works on single targets and you feel like you have to save the ammo for dps phases.
-ghorn sounds beast and makes you feel like a badass
-it's a fucking ghorn
Another thing is with armor bonuses ghorn can get 7 with 2 armor prices which makes you loose out on other perks that could be more valuable but the sleeper (on a titan) can get 12 blasts with a single armor piece (the armamentarium) which also allows an extra grenade which helps for ads so I've been using my sleeper over my ghorn. The worst downside to sleeper is that the fusion bast bounces and can bounce back into you which has happened to me more than once but the blast bouncing can also be amazing when you get a headshot then the blast bounces back into the boss taking the shot from about 40k to 60k but that's just luck. The ammo capacity is what won me over and with 12 it does like 1/4th dmg more than a ghorn does which is by far a huge improvement
LOL YOUR ONLY VIDEO IS SLEEPER SUICIDE you have done it
I still like ghorn better
Ghorn is better overall
Actually none of them are better, it's all based on personal preference
*****
Yes it is in almost everything
"Actually none of them are better, it's all based on personal preference"
-xTenziinHD
well, even if I prefer the thunderlord over the ghorn, one of them is obviously better XD
Really love to see all the math worked out like that and explained well. Awesome freakin job Datto
Datto, you can hold 15 shots with Sleeper Simulant with the right armor
@Datto This is a great video, thank you for taking the time to make it for us! Subscribed!
Devil's Dawn V. Black Spindle?
sam mathews black spindle will obviously win, ir doesnt have to reload
it**
Memo that's true, but it'd also matter if you wanted to use it for your exotic slot, you could use sleeper and devil's dawn if you really wanted. Sure you may never need to use the sleeper..or gjhallehorn, whatever you prefer, but I say it'd just prefer if you would rather use the black spindle and use up your exotic slot, or use devil's dawn and lose the exotic perk
Ooooo, that sounds interesting
devils dawn also does bonus fallen damage
Amazing and informative video as always Datto. I gotta start bringing my Sleeper with me more often.
The next video you gotta do is how practical is Raze Lighter in the Aksis fight?
why isn't anyone using black spindle in raid its was better than sleeper in taken king
Because using these other weapons is a lot more fun than the spindle
travis voight devils dawn has the same amount of impact compared to black spindle so it gives you the exotic slot for whatever you like
Spindle actually does LESS damage than the sleeper, the only time spindle was better to use than sleeper was at golgoroth because there is much less time to DPS/reload compared to the warpriest. Sleeper can also stagger oryx in one shot, so it's better than ToM (not for sisters, but oryx) since you can't use ToM without the aura anymore like with a bubble titan (they patched that I think).
P Shifty ??? You also have to reload Devils dawn taking off vital seconds of dps go back to cod scrub
they did I think they knew it was going to be a problem in the raid
Crazy good video man!
So lets buff ghorn
i praise you datto for these type of videos. well done
Really bad scientific example. Way to many variables with bubble, armor abilities, boss with adds and adding in other weapons. If you are doing a weapon vs weapon comparison it should be about the base weapon stats and nothing else. You can add modifiers after the fact if you want.
Weapons of light gives a straight 25%/35% damage boost. I don't see any problem here. He wanted to compare the damage output, shooting a boss and compare the numbers is the obvious choice. How are you comparing a rocket launcher with a (heavy) fusion rifle based on the base stats?
don't try to act smart when you can't even use the correct form of "too"
Weapons of Light doesn't work on Rockets. So sleeper is getting the full 35% buff while Gjallarhorn isn't. He should have compared the base shots without any buffs such as Weapons of Light. In that case, Sleeper's damage would have been a lot lower than what Datto showed. Making it more in-line with the Gjally.
Having said that, in an actual Raid, you can easily have both weapons of light and tether, up, so if sleeper is boosted by both and gjally is mainly boosted by tether, then yes, sleeper would output more overall damage.
Gjallarhorn is still much more versatile though, since it can easily be fired while running, jumping, moving etc. And it's great at clearing large groups of enemies, whereas the Sleeper is more of a single target weapon, like the Spindle.
the ghorn is shit and overhyped, I got rid of that bitch as soon as I got it
Anonymous BSK I'm not trying to act smart. It's just common sense when doing a study. Errors in spelling happen, doesn't mean a person is any less smart.
superb video. I always down with the mathematical breakdowns. and the fact that you put a full line graph together. man, you're Amazing. thanks for the video.
I definitely look forward to future videos.
Maybe a comparison of exotic Snipers (in Range, max damage at range, and total damage dealt before having to reload) ?
lmao the title you used on the y-axis is incorrect. You cant have damage over time over time. It is simply just d over t not dps over t
Vexil he's showing how your dps is changing as time progresses, this is to show why he's using total damage, instead of a dps figure. Pay attention to what he's saying.
that's actually not true. I'm not 100% sure how datto did it but it looked like a dps over time graph to me. That's why the dps averages out as time goes on. if it was just damage over time it would be a bunch of spikes on a graph that all have a relatively similar peak. So it is a damage over time over time graph.
GambetGO I disagree. The whole DAMAGE per SECOND means that damage should go OVER (Y axis is over X axis) seconds on the graph. I'm not mad, just educating :)
Sgt. Trumbo no showing how your damage does over time IS dps. You cant have dps/s
You can have anything over anything as long as it makes sense. Here he's using damage over time as it fluctuates over a period of time. That's totally fine.
Youre the best content creator when it comes to Destiny and numbers, good stuff man no one else does this shit and explains it like you do
Lol the sleeper would do less if they didnt nerf the ghorn
idk about that bro.
Wolfpack rounds currently do half their year one damage
Anthony Sullivan No, they reduced the damage of wolfpack rounds by 33%...not 50%.
Sleeper stimulant hits like a beast, pre nerf ghorn never did that kind of damage...
Ghorn es better overall but in Damage, SS is superior
Dantiel Barbosa Ye bro I know that the sleeper is superior in damage post and pre nerf but I just miss the pure destruction the pre nerf ghorn did.
Rman1256 Yes me too.
Its still amazing tho
the fact that dato does it everytime amazes me. you sir are dedicated to the job haha :D props
What if sleeper ricochets and hits an enemy twice... what about that variable?! Jk
Um game crashes?
What if the sleeper round bounces off the wall behind the boss and kills you? ;)
HuntingHarvey dps < gjally haha rip
wtf is a gjally....
Ken Foo Gjallarhorn. That's the nickname for the weapon in y1.
Thanks for info. Glad there's someone that has time to do this for everyone that's wondering about this.
Gjallarhorn is overused trash. People want to beleive its the best heavy.
It isn't but neither is sleeper. sleeper has a chance to ricochet and kill you and you need to make sure it hits. Ghorn has tracking and is good for clearing adds all stacked up. it's personal preference of which one you think.
Black Gjallarhorn is farm from trash dude.
Honestly its not the best but its the go to. Throw it on and your normally covered for any situation. Can't say that about a lot of other heavy weapons.
I'm smelling year 2 players
what a you bitches fighting about? Its a fuckin game play it you fucbois
thanks for taking posting this vid. very helpful!
I was wondering about this! Great vid!
this was such an awesome video!! keep up the great work Datto c:
respect datto u deserve my like. We really appreciate you going through this hard work for outbreak prime and the math behind damage. Keep it up
DUDE!!! I liked and subbed just for the shear amount of mathematical computations you had to do. Thanks bro.
Holy shot - good vid.
I was talking this during Templar and saying that it's more consistent to use ganjahorny instead of sleeper as you can jump and fire and also mash more rockets.
Although sleeper is more powerful he turns and it's possible to kiss crit shots while you can still spam the ganjala-horna
Great video and content appreciate the number crunching
Excellent video buddy, really enjoy these kinda videos, thank you.
Sleeper was the first exotic I had to work for and boy was it a fun one, but handling the gun was great and I instantly fell in love with it when I saw the damage output then It was just glued to my heavy slot.
Great video, it was REALLY helpful (like most of your videos). How about some primary weapons damage comparison for the next one- Outbreak Prime, CHAOS DOGMA~, SUROS Regime, No Time To Explain, maybe Thorn and Hawkmoon.... Just thinking about all the primaries that give you extra damage\RoF\mag size.
id like to thank datto for his time and effort.
I feel like I'm in school when watching Datto's videos
Been waiting for this, thank you sir!
The legendary rocket launcher named Something Wicked, from the crucible vendor, I found out that the cluster bomb perk did ALOT more damage than woflpack rounds, and since Aksis is a very large boss, all clusters actually hits the boss for around 3.5k damage each, adds up weapon of light, it is even better.
I strongly advise you guys to test it.
THANK YOU for the raid spoiler warning in the beginning Datto. Most youtuber's wouldn't do that still this late, but as someone still trying to go through blind I appreciate this.
just the video ive been waiting for. ty
excellent vid man, love the way you actually take the time to break everything down and do the math! same with tether vs melting point or the golgoroth super crit. :)
This vid hitting different
Great vid, I've been rockin the Sleeper!
Appreciate all the hard work you put into these videos Datto. Keep up the awesome work. Love the channel.
Love the vids man. Great work.
I had similar results when testing the black spindle to the sleeper back when I was doing the Oryx raid. I found that while the spindle could output theoretically more dps, as soon as it ran out of ammo (which often happened during warpriest for example) The other weapons at your disposal cause it's overall damage to fall off. I found that if I used the Sleeper for the full 9 rounds, then switch to my 1kys until the damage phase ended, I always ended up far out dpsing everyone in my party who was using black spindles. Trying to get into PUGs while not using Spindle was a pain but they always saw that I out dps'd them if we ever happened to die.
Incredible stuff once again Datto :)
I was hoping someone would make this comparison, thanks.
Dont forget the Raid gauntlets can roll with Fusion Rifle reloader which works on the Sleeper and a sniper with Surplus will give you 5-6 Sleeper ammo per "normal" brick!
Dude, this was AWESOME. Thank you for all of the work!
love these comparison videos.
Suffering through your math?? Dude you did all that work and suffering to get us the numbers! Thanks man! Awesome vid! I was always curious about the numbers between these two. To think that you went ahead and did this. Man you're crazy lol
I don't understand why there are dislikes on this video. He's being completely unbiased, and this is the best video covering this topic without a doubt.
So glad to finally have this video, I've been wondering this one for a while. One I'd really like to know is Raze Lighter vs Young Wolf's Howl.
Amazing video as always. Keep it up.
raze lighter, sleepers, and fully charged shock cannons on aksis. how this works is you have 3 with raze ligher and 3 with sleepers or gallys. raze lighter uppercut the captains (2 to kill). Gally/sleepers grab the cannons for the servitors. razelighers ONLY rotate on double empowerment. upon first teleport dps. drop 2 gally shots or 3 sleeper shots. razelighers use snipers and primaries. repeat for 2nd dps. on third dps. raze lighters uppercut Aksis while the remaining 3 use the fully charged cannons. (use of weapons of light and tethers are assumed for 3rd dps). drop an ammo synth if need be during the wait in the safety zones.
atleast someone will do it datto you will always be our first source of info for this kind of thing
The amount of detail you put into your vids is fucking great! We'll done and keep up the excellent work.
+Datto you are doing the Traveler's work, my friend.Thank you for doing this research and for the future videos you will do on other weapons.