I've gotten this question a lot in the comments, but what happens if you kill Berdly with Iceshock is shown here: th-cam.com/video/45it2l-TfBE/w-d-xo.html
I like how even though Berdly seems to forget everything that happened, Noelle actually addresses it, and seems confused. "Proceed... why did they keep saying that?", "Whatever it was, they seem to have snapped themselves out of it", etc.
I really don't understand why she say ''they'' or ''them'' when she talk about Kris .. is she talking about Kris and the player ...? Like she know we are here too ?
@@jessical.1194 She hears 2 voices, one is from kris and one is from the orders we as the player decide, the dialogue options are us the player, and in a certain point of the route even the combat commands become commands from the player directly and not from kris
You've planted so many seeds of doubt into Noelle that the moment you break from the Snowgrave shtick she instantly shifts the blame away from Kris and onto herself. Idk if this is indicative of Noelle's own lack of self confidence, or the SOUL's power to influence.
It's not about lack of confidence or the souls power, you groom Noelle to be a serial killer. She's gaslighted, abused, and told its for her own good. You teach her that she needs you and if she doesn't have you she's weak. She blames herself to stay In your favor. Waaaaay more screwed up
I think it definitely has to be the fact that Kris' actual personality has shown him to be kind it a trickster type of person or the one to mess around alot with Noelle so she just doesnt look at it as something thatd be out of the ordinary
Nope, she is literally manipulated to think its to make her stronger or for her own good. That's permanently stuck to her thoughts now and doubt every thought she had.
@@Dazyhead she's not told it's for her own good. she tells herself that. what the fuck goes on in your heads that you don't even read what's on the screen?
Ive done some research and the sound files are both called snd_ominous and snd_ominous_cancel for both goin down the route and getting out of it. Makes me wonder if every chapter is gonna have its own 'ominous' route
I find something interesting; Yeah, you go back to the normal ending path, but you still have the Ring of Thorns and Snowgrave is still in Noelle's list of available spells if you check the menu after the battle (In fact, you can use Snowgrave if you do that backtracking exploit after sparing Berdly). I wonder if that will actually change things if/when we get her as a party member again in another chapter, and if that's something Toby accounted for.
But, more importantly about the Thorn Ring, it’s used to craft the Twisted Sword, so I’m pretty sure this is the only way to actually get it to Castle Town for now.
Honestly, I think this is the much more interesting outcome: you drive them against their will, put them on the edge of killing a classmate, and then you just...stop. No explanation, no reason, no clear purpose, and nothing to stop whatever was controlling them from returning. It's Cosmic Horror at its finest, only the player is the one pulling the strings.
judging by, just, fucking everything this chapter had to offer, i can safely assume my house will be flooded with gross tears shortly after chapter seven releases
Spamton doesn't takeover because Queen still has berdly. Guess berdly is enough to ward off spamton with his presence. Maybe because they understand you need determination to make a fountain, but dont know monsters literally cannot handle determination leaving the original part of the post as it stands. By now it's come to my attention that monsters have had developments in their physiology over the years they spent underground in Undertale that makes their bodies unsustainable to determination. Deltarune monsters simply don't have the same issues of eating magic for who knows how long, and are as likely to be as squishy and fleshy as the human(s[?]). Monsters are weird. Could make a theory involving color theory and white being a combination of all the colors n soul colors n blah blah blah. Simple fact is Monsters are very likely to be just as capable as humans, but un undertale it's fairly obvious that few have the drive, let alone expertise in the magic they've been recycling for proverbial Eons to fully take advantage of. Berdly and the rest of the monsters could very well try to make a fountain and succeed in Deltarune, whereas the Undertale ones cant. It does really make you wonder if Asriel or Kris found out how to make fountains first. They've likely already done something similar when they were smaller with the many allusions by many darkners, primarily the Lancer's Dad. It also makes me wonder if Dess was present at any point in the dark worlds to explain her odd circumstances, but the only person I think to have a smidgen of knowledge would be Noelle. Golly gee, I just can't wait for the chapters to come out so soon so I can be vehemently disappointed, disheveled, inspired and awestruck.
I think the castle gets taken over BECAUSE Queen is busy looking for Noelle and Berdly but because Berdly actually returns Spamton doesn't have a chance to take over the castle
I've also come to think of the reason that Queen isn't super concerned about Noelle since Noelle doesn't have any trauma to be super sad about, thus she isn't distracted. It just seems weird that such a drastic difference could occur since in snowgrave its only about a minute until we see the entire castle is changed to spamton paintings and stuff.
I don't know if it's accurate, because queen didn't know about the roaring. But queen and also ralsei claim that all lighteners are capable of determination (at least enough to create a fountain) I think In this universe, things work differently than Undertale
Well, you used to be able to, but the most recent update patched it out. Snowgrave gets removed from Noelle's spell list if you don't use it on Berdly.
Noelle: *literally forced to freeze enemies and almost got killed until she did what kris wanted* also Noelle: nah he was just trying to mess with berdley
I think it's because she thinks it is a dream that's how she sees monsters. But Berdly looks exactly like Berdly in real life so that's the part that gets scary for her.
@@gwen3822 ok so she freezes all enemies, possibly killing them. Then is forced into a laser until she did it for "kris". THEN forced to use a spell she didn't know on her classmate causing him to literally die
Your reminding me that you are a player from a genocide route that’s my theory and that each chapter it slowly allows YOU to be in control kris Is just a vessel idk just a theory I got it because the ending but it became troll but then Noelle hearing your soul means you are from the genocide timeline where you go to the” next world”
1:33 Oh - she has no idea how to ACT peacefully, does she? Guess that's because, in this route, all she's ever been told to do is fight or defend - she isn't familiar with sparing enemies at all.
@@dekokiri9961 Hm, I'm not sure. Might be worth testing out, but I'll leave it to someone else - not going to be running Snowgrave myself. Too disturbing for me.
This is probably why there's 3 saves. In chapter 1 your choices literally didn't matter. But here you have a save for pacifist. Snowgrave and abandoned snowgrave. Abandoned snowgrave berdly is alive, but Noelle is stronger and more assertive. This could potentially be positive in later chapters who knows.
If you beat Berdly with ice-shock, nothing bad happens The story instantly returns to normal No acknowledgment whatsoever Although. . . Has anybody returned to the dumpster where you get the thorn ring after aborting Snowgrave run?
@@alejotassile6441 You can go to Spamton's dumpster in any route, it's just really hard and there's no point in going there while doing a pacifist or neutral route since he won't give you the ring
It's really interesting to me that this fight has its own unique set of ACTs. I kinda' figured it was like the genocide-exclusive bosses in UT, and I really expected Berdly to be outright unsparable.
God the amount of effort Toby puts into neutral route cutscenes, with Noelle trying to make excuses. Oh sweet Noelle... you have no idea what could've happened.
This route is so much more creepy than Undertale's Genocide route... Murdering an entire underground? Was creepy at first then just got boring... Manipulating an innocent and vulnerable girl to murder an entire city _AND_ her friend? Guess who isn't sleeping at night because they feel guilty [[Spoiler Alert]] _it's me._ I mean, I still love this route, but holy fuck Toby... Way to make someone feel like shit for a video game character!
Hey so. During the normal berdly fight, noelle says "he hit me in the face with a tornado" after berdly leaves Im wondering, what happens if you win that fight without getting hit. Does noelle say anything different?
I feel like the Aborted Snowgrave could have some really interesting implications later on in the story. That is, if she doesn't forget the Snowgrave Move.
Hold up hold up "go ahead and train your strength values" that's in the normal route as well, right? He's literally trying to provoke you into doing the snowgrave route, holy
He's a total dumbass (and only the player knows of Snowgrave, as Berdly isn't aware of resets), so I doubt he understood what he was saying... just his usual Gamer trashtalk. He was creeped out and some alarm bells went off in his head, but his fragile ego couldn't accept he'd been intimidated out of handling a really suspicious situation... so he treated it like he does any loss, which is to try to boost himself back up and confront them again later. Kinda disappointed he'd do that, but again, he's not anywhere near as emotionally intelligent as he claims to be. And considering how easily him and Noelle accepted this was all a dream...? He may have had intent to change the world, but it still didn't feel quite real enough to resist from being fooled into not taking it seriously, if my wording makes sense.
A major glitch was discovered that made normal route faster than weird route again. It involves getting crushed by 400 bagels at the exact same time that you are trying to go through a doorframe.
hmm... now I wonder if that affect her stat and title and maybe it may affect the wake up cutscene too like I mean, what she ask Susie about her tail in the run is kinda 'bold' now that her 'boldness' stat is sort of high maybe she'll does it too even if it isn't officially in the run
Yeah I still need to test some things with this route. I was wondering if things would change if you go all pacifist except for the part with noelle and then go back to all pacifist if it would change anything.
@@MysticSlime I think that'll still do the snowgrave route because the reason snowgrave route happens is by controlling Noelle and making her kill everyone, what you do without her doesn't matter as far as I'm aware.
@@MysticSlime Just tried it out myself and it doesn't activate snowgrave route if you're a passifist, although I may've done something wrong so feel free to check, but pretty sure you can't do snowgrave without genocide beforehand.
@@CrabbyDarth I tried and it didn't work, one of the ways I found out it can't work is because normally when you try go backwards in snowgrave she'll say you're going the wrong way TWICE and that she is starting to regret choosing to team with you, when I tried it pacifist she only says you're going the wrong way after you get to the bin part, also I checked again and I DEFINITELY did everything right in pacifist, froze every enemy with her, went back to door, persisted to go to carnival, but the shopkeeper doesn't ask about the ring.
This could be a legitimate ending though. We got Noelle strong enough to acess Snowgrave but not also mentally damaged enough to raise concern from the others.
My theory is that this is a meant to be a way to get the “best of both worlds” in the later chapters. When you start the Snowgrave fight, Noelle gains a lot more power, Berdly probably gives you XP if you kill him too Maybe this way, if you spare him, you get to keep Berdly alive *and* get Noelle to a higher level. The next chapters will more than likely have Noelle available as a companion at some point, meaning you might have an advantage over if you hadn’t taken the Aborted Snowgrave route
If the run is aborted this way, do the regular frozen enemies turn back to normal? Also, I kinda wonder what happens when you play the run the pacifist way, but then beat Berdly with the regular Ice Shock.
Fireshock is mentioned in Noelle's game. I wonder if Ralsei can learn that. The other goat people have fire magic & the Dreemurs are frequently associated with the Holidays.
Yeah, iceshock is a spell in that game so its pretty safe to assume that snowgrave is as well. Based on her dialogue we also see that she probably already knows what snowgrave does/that its fatal, and while she couldve assumed off the name alone she may also know it from that game she plays.
when i once did the run, when i saw noelle losing hp, i instantly defended and used iceshock in berdly, i didnt noticed the snowgrave button, after that i checked lancer and i saw that he was awake, i instantly knew i had made a mistake, so i checked in yt and yeah, i ruined my snowgrave route, thankfully i didnt saved after i attacked berdly, so i just loaded my old file i didnt knew noelle's hp would stop dropping at 55 (which is coincidentally writen as "LV" in roman numbers)
Kris before: forces Noelle to murder everyone. berdly before: I won't let you use my friend like this, with the power of friendship and good grades, I'll save her. berdly after: haha you suck, you'll never be as good as me, and I'll never admit my failure to save my friend from mental trauma, teeheehee. Kris: I guess I'm a good guy again Noelle: huh?
Yeah I did this the first time because I can't take a hint to save my life. Was disappointed about having to backtrack. It had been a while since my last save.
Normally, Im kind of indifferent with games, it doesn't really overwhelmed me but sincerely, when I saw Noelle joking about all of this, and the 5:47 happy sound effect, it filled me with joy knowing that it was over
In a snow grave route chapter 2 save, I wonder if in the endgame (back to overworld), Berdly's passing would have their family in despair ,after finding out their son was found cold and straight dead in the computer lab. Noelle would also show the most impacts post game in chapter 3 in the case that you did the snow grave route in a chapter 2 save The moral is: Your choices don't matter, but eventually and/or cryptically do make specific impacts based on choice in the long-run. Nice Toby, good luck on releasing 3,4 and 5 simultaneously :)
I've seen alternative perspectives that interpret the 'your' choices don't matter as specifically Kris's choices; the 'genocides' in this game will be the player specifically manipulating other characters into murder. Which will be significantly more distressing.
First time I fought Berdly during the Snowgrave Route I didn't even notice the Snowgrave option because I was panicking since Noelle's HP was rapidly depleting. So I just kept spamming "Iceshock" until I got him to 0 hp. The dialogue afterwards was the same as if I'd done a normal route. Never knew there was different dialogue if Berdly's spared.
In my mind i keep wondering if you abort the Snowgrave route, you may still unlock a third route.. I try to explain my idea (forgive my english): Pacifist route: The time she spend in the dark world, it's you who solve the puzzles and fight (kinda) the opponents. Noelle just follows and helps rarely, don't takes too many initiatives, just at the end she answer back to Queen but it's clearly just a moment of rebellion. When will be back to the light world, in the future is possible she will need to fight against the father's death and everyday the rage of the mother, without anyone helping her if not just Herself. Useless saying would brings her to a big status of depression. The game said your choises doesn't matter, so if eventually you wanna save her somehow later, there's not much you can.. unless, somehow she was enough stronger to getting through all this; Snowgrave route: We literally force her to fight (kill) the opponents, makes her solve the puzzles alone (making her stronger) etc. The problem comes with the fight with Berdly, frozing one of the only friends she has (possible to death or coma), instead you makes her believe that if she wanna do always the right thing She has to follow the orders to who's (stronger/better) than her. In the future will yes Seem she's getting through the bad stuff will possible happen in the light world, but will eventually makes terrible choises despice the others to became stronger and stronger, realizing she's just keep fleeing away from her feelings and just making hte others suffering.. After all this, it's now too late to "save/spare" her.. unless was clear why we makes her do these actions before; Third route? : Before fight Berdly, instead of using Snowgrave, you decide to spare Berdly. The Snowgrave route will abort and she will thinks it was all a joke about, but will remember about the "proceed" words you were saying.. Which will use as example about, yes getting stronger BUT never overcross the line Considering she learnt to deal with others, solve puzzles by herself, being showed she can do it by herself and not just cause we we're not really controlling her, when will come back to the light world with more self-confidence and strenght needed... It's possible will have to deal about what she kills to being stronger to fight for living but.. Sometimes in life you have to makes choises not matter what, not always are good or evil. Sometimes it doesn't matter, but you can't just ignore them forever (I know it's pretty messed up, but i hope you may appreciate my effort ^^; )
this would be the route where we can obtain the thorn ring from noelle, which can perhaps be used to craft the “strange twisted sword”, which has the same ability as the thorn ring… a future secret perhaps?
That's because of the thorn ring she's wearing. If you check the description of the ring, in there it's written that it causes the wearer to receive damage because of the pain it causes.
In the snowgrave route without aborting, Noelle constantly thinks about the events of what had happened doubting herself and is scared of kris, also if you take off her watch and equip it on kris you get some interesting dialogue at the hospital (in shaking letters) "Kris... h. how did you get that" "Kris: In your dream" then suzie interupts the conversation. Aswell as a bunch more dialogue being different and Noelles personality is more self centered, as well as defaults to using *ice shock* in the game she plays in the real world.
Fun Fact: The first time, Us, the Player, try to manipulate someone was in chapter 1, when everybody got locked up in the king castle and Susie rescues up, before Susie solves her 2nd puzzle, she ask where to go and we got a choice to go to the left or right, when we choose something, susie will ask if Kris say something back there, acting like she hears a voice and directly assuming it was Kris's, but we already know for a Fact, thanks to chapter 2 that, that wasn't Kris's voice, it was ours.
There is an item you can mix with the ring of thorns in the first and in the second chapter if you bring the ring of thorns to the world where gather all of the recruits, you can make the ring by combining it with something else i don't remember which is a normal item to make a strange looking knife with. You need to have the ring of thorns on you and to do that you need to not use it here and keep it and bring it to the dark world where you combine it. Propably got to the first chapter and second chapter by killing everything you see or at least fighting them and put on the most violent weapons you could find, and also get max TP in the Susie Vs Lancer fight before her final attack and maybe defeat jevil while you are at it.
MysticSlime expanding the video for 6 minutes straight by choosing the incorrect options most of the time to [Drink Up That Sweet, sweet, TH-cam revenue sauce]
I have a theory that the soul (or the player; just whatever force controls Kris) controls/subugates Kris more than normal in this run. After all, Kris is mentioned to look pleased if you find the moss in the normal route. In snowgrave, the moss is just described as "It's some moss." and Noelle doesn't mention Kris's reaction. That would also sort of explain why Kris doesn't fight against any of this; they might legitimately be less capable of it because the soul controls them more strongly, enough so to influence the narration. And while yes, Kris's character is described as enjoying scaring Noelle, we do get, at least, one hint that Kris doesn't like this. When you meet up with Ralsei and Susie, Susie mentions they look off. She brushes it off as Kris being physically hurt and offers to heal them, but Kris was likely genuinely upset and just had no real way of expressing it.
![BEREAVED ~ THE JUDGEMENT DAY. [Birthday Halloween/Cory Mix.] - (MARKIPLIER MONTAGE OST )](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/r_BKTZYZcFk/mqdefault.jpg)
I've gotten this question a lot in the comments, but what happens if you kill Berdly with Iceshock is shown here: th-cam.com/video/45it2l-TfBE/w-d-xo.html
just like this video
How are you playing at 60 fps...?
@@mystari4445 doesn't it normally play at 60fps?
@@G-DORA
It does not for me.. am I doing something wrong? It's capped at 30.
I accidentally killed berdly with iceshock when i tried playing this route 😭
I like how even though Berdly seems to forget everything that happened, Noelle actually addresses it, and seems confused. "Proceed... why did they keep saying that?", "Whatever it was, they seem to have snapped themselves out of it", etc.
Wow
I really don't understand why she say ''they'' or ''them'' when she talk about Kris .. is she talking about Kris and the player ...? Like she know we are here too ?
@@jessical.1194 Kris has they/them pronouns throughout the game, it's not just Noelle
@@jessical.1194 Kris uses "they/them" pronouns.
@@jessical.1194 She hears 2 voices, one is from kris and one is from the orders we as the player decide, the dialogue options are us the player, and in a certain point of the route even the combat commands become commands from the player directly and not from kris
berdly's gamer energy is what keeps spamton away
he has an adblocker
‘no no no
You are not gamers’
@@Nina-wh6hb I get it. But I’m not finishing it because I know you aren’t a real gamer
@@Nina-wh6hb
He'd be the one to say that, especially given his reaction to "I Only Play Mobile Games"
Actually you bring up a good point, the plot doesn’t really make sense at this point lol.
You've planted so many seeds of doubt into Noelle that the moment you break from the Snowgrave shtick she instantly shifts the blame away from Kris and onto herself. Idk if this is indicative of Noelle's own lack of self confidence, or the SOUL's power to influence.
Probably the former
It's not about lack of confidence or the souls power, you groom Noelle to be a serial killer. She's gaslighted, abused, and told its for her own good. You teach her that she needs you and if she doesn't have you she's weak. She blames herself to stay In your favor. Waaaaay more screwed up
I think it definitely has to be the fact that Kris' actual personality has shown him to be kind it a trickster type of person or the one to mess around alot with Noelle so she just doesnt look at it as something thatd be out of the ordinary
Nope, she is literally manipulated to think its to make her stronger or for her own good. That's permanently stuck to her thoughts now and doubt every thought she had.
@@Dazyhead she's not told it's for her own good. she tells herself that. what the fuck goes on in your heads that you don't even read what's on the screen?
I like the little jingle for aborting the snowgrave route
Ive done some research and the sound files are both called snd_ominous and snd_ominous_cancel for both goin down the route and getting out of it. Makes me wonder if every chapter is gonna have its own 'ominous' route
@@xkimura3740 I hope so. This whole run was a _trip._ I don’t want to hurt anyone else, but at the same time…I want to see more.
@@K1ttyGam3r That's why we've done genocide route in Undertale =)
@@emily_quiesaver I did it cause I wanted to fight sans,and it was actually my first run xD
@@secrom36 omg ahahahah
I find something interesting; Yeah, you go back to the normal ending path, but you still have the Ring of Thorns and Snowgrave is still in Noelle's list of available spells if you check the menu after the battle (In fact, you can use Snowgrave if you do that backtracking exploit after sparing Berdly). I wonder if that will actually change things if/when we get her as a party member again in another chapter, and if that's something Toby accounted for.
We at least get to see Susie and Ralsei's reactions to the ring; Susie thinks it's a torture device, and Ralsei...says nothing at all.
@@twindrill2852 Yeah, that "..." is interesting.
But, more importantly about the Thorn Ring, it’s used to craft the Twisted Sword, so I’m pretty sure this is the only way to actually get it to Castle Town for now.
@@raphaelsanchez7386
Not that you can currently get the Pure Crystal that also requires.
@@raphaelsanchez7386 huh, I wonder if this is the *true* ending then
Honestly, I think this is the much more interesting outcome: you drive them against their will, put them on the edge of killing a classmate, and then you just...stop. No explanation, no reason, no clear purpose, and nothing to stop whatever was controlling them from returning. It's Cosmic Horror at its finest, only the player is the one pulling the strings.
Yes indeedeth.
Yes just like the undertale were the villian
I kind of like that breaking out of the Snowgrave route gives a more positive notification sound than the more "down" one. It's a nice touch.
judging by, just, fucking everything this chapter had to offer, i can safely assume my house will be flooded with gross tears shortly after chapter seven releases
Can’t wait for chapter 7 to release when we’re 30
@@kevinmalone584 let’s just pray one of us is currently 29
Throwing a prediction out here that papayrus will be a party member for a chapter (probably 4 or 6) so where going to get to snowgrave route him
you’ll be senile by then
If anything happens to Ralsei or Noelle I'm going to be a MESS
Spamton doesn't takeover because Queen still has berdly. Guess berdly is enough to ward off spamton with his presence. Maybe because they understand you need determination to make a fountain, but dont know monsters literally cannot handle determination
leaving the original part of the post as it stands. By now it's come to my attention that monsters have had developments in their physiology over the years they spent underground in Undertale that makes their bodies unsustainable to determination. Deltarune monsters simply don't have the same issues of eating magic for who knows how long, and are as likely to be as squishy and fleshy as the human(s[?]). Monsters are weird. Could make a theory involving color theory and white being a combination of all the colors n soul colors n blah blah blah. Simple fact is Monsters are very likely to be just as capable as humans, but un undertale it's fairly obvious that few have the drive, let alone expertise in the magic they've been recycling for proverbial Eons to fully take advantage of. Berdly and the rest of the monsters could very well try to make a fountain and succeed in Deltarune, whereas the Undertale ones cant. It does really make you wonder if Asriel or Kris found out how to make fountains first. They've likely already done something similar when they were smaller with the many allusions by many darkners, primarily the Lancer's Dad. It also makes me wonder if Dess was present at any point in the dark worlds to explain her odd circumstances, but the only person I think to have a smidgen of knowledge would be Noelle. Golly gee, I just can't wait for the chapters to come out so soon so I can be vehemently disappointed, disheveled, inspired and awestruck.
I think the castle gets taken over BECAUSE Queen is busy looking for Noelle and Berdly but because Berdly actually returns Spamton doesn't have a chance to take over the castle
@@OceanChime oh yeah lol
Monsters can handle it in this.
I've also come to think of the reason that Queen isn't super concerned about Noelle since Noelle doesn't have any trauma to be super sad about, thus she isn't distracted. It just seems weird that such a drastic difference could occur since in snowgrave its only about a minute until we see the entire castle is changed to spamton paintings and stuff.
I don't know if it's accurate, because queen didn't know about the roaring. But queen and also ralsei claim that all lighteners are capable of determination (at least enough to create a fountain) I think In this universe, things work differently than Undertale
I love how you can just absolutely fucking obliterate a poor little maus with snowgrave after this
Well, you used to be able to, but the most recent update patched it out. Snowgrave gets removed from Noelle's spell list if you don't use it on Berdly.
@@larpagunRacism
Worth it
Noelle: *literally forced to freeze enemies and almost got killed until she did what kris wanted*
also Noelle: nah he was just trying to mess with berdley
Just a prank sis
I think it's because she thinks it is a dream that's how she sees monsters. But Berdly looks exactly like Berdly in real life so that's the part that gets scary for her.
Social experiment gone wrong [frozen] [in the hood]
I mean they're classmates, i see why Noelle would think that
@@gwen3822 ok so she freezes all enemies, possibly killing them. Then is forced into a laser until she did it for "kris". THEN forced to use a spell she didn't know on her classmate causing him to literally die
"Sometimes I can't believe how cool I am..." Oh my god
Kris thinks he broke free from the player
Player: I'll let birdie live just this once...
Player: I'll spare you... this is my testing save file
*they
Is this what he really want tho?
To think i have done the snowgrave route only bc of my hate to birdly
Your reminding me that you are a player from a genocide route that’s my theory and that each chapter it slowly allows YOU to be in control kris Is just a vessel idk just a theory I got it because the ending but it became troll but then Noelle hearing your soul means you are from the genocide timeline where you go to the” next world”
1:33 Oh - she has no idea how to ACT peacefully, does she? Guess that's because, in this route, all she's ever been told to do is fight or defend - she isn't familiar with sparing enemies at all.
Yep. Kris told her to kill the first virus before it could say anything so she missed the lesson.
What if we spare virovirothing and snowgrave the rest of the enemies and attempt berdly fight but spare him?
@@dekokiri9961 Hm, I'm not sure. Might be worth testing out, but I'll leave it to someone else - not going to be running Snowgrave myself. Too disturbing for me.
@@dekokiri9961 i dont think thats possible
Spamton who has already got the neo power by now: NOOOO
Security! Spamton: No! I just wanted to be a [BIG SHOT]!
@@Daniel328DT tf is security spamton?
@@localidiot450 I think that was the Queen calling "Security!" on him.
@@kingofcrap4414 ah, I thought it was something like more stupid AU's
@@localidiot450 secwet bods
Berdly doesn't know how close he was to dying
This is probably why there's 3 saves. In chapter 1 your choices literally didn't matter. But here you have a save for pacifist. Snowgrave and abandoned snowgrave. Abandoned snowgrave berdly is alive, but Noelle is stronger and more assertive. This could potentially be positive in later chapters who knows.
And free thorn ring to fuse with the pure crystal once it's created with new shadow crystals too
Noelle: We should have gone easier on him
Literally all Kris did was glare at him. Its not like you turned him into a block of ice or something
It's a little strange, she says that line even if you do a pacifist run. I guess she's just concerned about Berdly over exerting himself.
@@larpagun Yes you played dumb or smart but you haven't gone easy on him anyhow.
If you beat Berdly with ice-shock, nothing bad happens
The story instantly returns to normal
No acknowledgment whatsoever
Although. . .
Has anybody returned to the dumpster where you get the thorn ring after aborting Snowgrave run?
I think the world resets, the cars are back and you can't go there anymore but I'm not sure
@@alejotassile6441 You can go to Spamton's dumpster in any route, it's just really hard and there's no point in going there while doing a pacifist or neutral route since he won't give you the ring
@@adambrando3792 It's not /that/ hard. It's a hard version of the car puzzle, but not super tricky. It's where you get the Easter Egg for the chapter
@@adambrando3792 there is a point if you want the second egg.
I don't know if there's any extra dialogue there but if you then go on to beat Spamton by violence, a few of his lines get changed.
Truly, the best outcome*
*Now with only a bit of trauma
It's really interesting to me that this fight has its own unique set of ACTs. I kinda' figured it was like the genocide-exclusive bosses in UT, and I really expected Berdly to be outright unsparable.
I'm gonna laugh if this is the correct route just so you get to use snowgrave on Kris at a later date.
Well this is the only way to get one of the twisted sword mats
God the amount of effort Toby puts into neutral route cutscenes, with Noelle trying to make excuses. Oh sweet Noelle... you have no idea what could've happened.
And _we_ have no idea what's coming next, either.
this implies that berdly's mere presence is enough to keep spamton from usurping the queen
Just imagine how much damage you can deal to him with defence dripped and buffed Noelle multiple times.
probably 6900 damage
This route is so much more creepy than Undertale's Genocide route...
Murdering an entire underground? Was creepy at first then just got boring...
Manipulating an innocent and vulnerable girl to murder an entire city _AND_ her friend? Guess who isn't sleeping at night because they feel guilty [[Spoiler Alert]] _it's me._
I mean, I still love this route, but holy fuck Toby... Way to make someone feel like shit for a video game character!
I just think of it as a miniscule amout of [[trolling]] and then I can sleep like an [Angel, Angel]
@@steepslopesmm2 Trolling. Yes. None of it is my fault. I was just trolling. Everything is just Trollge.
it was worth it to fucking kill berdly
Hey so. During the normal berdly fight, noelle says "he hit me in the face with a tornado" after berdly leaves
Im wondering, what happens if you win that fight without getting hit. Does noelle say anything different?
Oh that's an interesting thought. Maybe a no-hit video shows what happens?
@@MysticSlime In the Snowgrave version of the fight Berdly only attacks Kris, so I'm not sure if it would have alternate dialogue
She says: "(If he would just listen to me...)"
@@mandasanz7340 thats boring. But thank you
She doesn't say anything about the tornado bit. It happened on my first run, since none of his attacks hit her at all.
5:46 that sound is music to my ears
I feel like the Aborted Snowgrave could have some really interesting implications later on in the story.
That is, if she doesn't forget the Snowgrave Move.
i think the sound at the end shows you've stopped going the snowgrave route , since that "tiiiing!" seemed cheerful .
Hold up hold up "go ahead and train your strength values" that's in the normal route as well, right? He's literally trying to provoke you into doing the snowgrave route, holy
suicidal narcissist. huh...
He's a total dumbass (and only the player knows of Snowgrave, as Berdly isn't aware of resets), so I doubt he understood what he was saying... just his usual Gamer trashtalk. He was creeped out and some alarm bells went off in his head, but his fragile ego couldn't accept he'd been intimidated out of handling a really suspicious situation... so he treated it like he does any loss, which is to try to boost himself back up and confront them again later. Kinda disappointed he'd do that, but again, he's not anywhere near as emotionally intelligent as he claims to be. And considering how easily him and Noelle accepted this was all a dream...? He may have had intent to change the world, but it still didn't feel quite real enough to resist from being fooled into not taking it seriously, if my wording makes sense.
@@TheCorty nah he just didn't feel like any of it was real it's like waking up with superpowers you assume you are dreaming first things first
What’s kind of sad i see this route being a perfect speedrun route skips a lot of stuff
Yeah I saw somebody already got the world record with this route
A major glitch was discovered that made normal route faster than weird route again. It involves getting crushed by 400 bagels at the exact same time that you are trying to go through a doorframe.
"I guess we both kind-of got carried away."
Man.
That hits like a truck.
Saying that you're protecting her from him also switches you out of the snowgrave route
Berdly's defense dropped! *But it FAILED*
The music sounds like a heartbeat of anticipation…
Thanks to your [[REDEMPTION]] arc I have not [[BECOMED]] NEO.
Huh, I can't believe I didn't notice this but, you keep Snowgrave if you use Iceshock, but lose it if you use Glare.
hmm... now I wonder if that affect her stat and title
and maybe it may affect the wake up cutscene too
like I mean, what she ask Susie about her tail in the run is kinda 'bold'
now that her 'boldness' stat is sort of high maybe she'll does it too even if it isn't officially in the run
Yeah I still need to test some things with this route. I was wondering if things would change if you go all pacifist except for the part with noelle and then go back to all pacifist if it would change anything.
@@MysticSlime I think that'll still do the snowgrave route because the reason snowgrave route happens is by controlling Noelle and making her kill everyone, what you do without her doesn't matter as far as I'm aware.
@@MysticSlime Just tried it out myself and it doesn't activate snowgrave route if you're a passifist, although I may've done something wrong so feel free to check, but pretty sure you can't do snowgrave without genocide beforehand.
@@RandomPerson-sh9tu you can do pacifist on all parts besides noelle to achieve pipis route
@@CrabbyDarth I tried and it didn't work, one of the ways I found out it can't work is because normally when you try go backwards in snowgrave she'll say you're going the wrong way TWICE and that she is starting to regret choosing to team with you, when I tried it pacifist she only says you're going the wrong way after you get to the bin part, also I checked again and I DEFINITELY did everything right in pacifist, froze every enemy with her, went back to door, persisted to go to carnival, but the shopkeeper doesn't ask about the ring.
i love noelle's words when you finish the fight! and the little sound as if reflecting on how things are okay now
This could be a legitimate ending though. We got Noelle strong enough to acess Snowgrave but not also mentally damaged enough to raise concern from the others.
so doing that we return to the neutral route, how well covered Toby Fox has with this
My theory is that this is a meant to be a way to get the “best of both worlds” in the later chapters. When you start the Snowgrave fight, Noelle gains a lot more power, Berdly probably gives you XP if you kill him too
Maybe this way, if you spare him, you get to keep Berdly alive *and* get Noelle to a higher level. The next chapters will more than likely have Noelle available as a companion at some point, meaning you might have an advantage over if you hadn’t taken the Aborted Snowgrave route
If the run is aborted this way, do the regular frozen enemies turn back to normal?
Also, I kinda wonder what happens when you play the run the pacifist way, but then beat Berdly with the regular Ice Shock.
Oh never mind, I just saw your other video, Ice Shock simply doesn't make him freeze at all.
Players: you are lucky that I was doing this for a video.
I wonder if snowgrave is the name of a spell in the game she's playing in the hospital..
actually the answer is pretty obvious if you go to the hospital after the snowgrave route
Fireshock is mentioned in Noelle's game. I wonder if Ralsei can learn that. The other goat people have fire magic & the Dreemurs are frequently associated with the Holidays.
Yeah, iceshock is a spell in that game so its pretty safe to assume that snowgrave is as well. Based on her dialogue we also see that she probably already knows what snowgrave does/that its fatal, and while she couldve assumed off the name alone she may also know it from that game she plays.
remember when berdly and noelle were just sort of minor characters?
yeah that could have interest concepts
Chapter 2!
Feel like an absolute asshole while doing "genocide"!
when i once did the run, when i saw noelle losing hp, i instantly defended and used iceshock in berdly, i didnt noticed the snowgrave button, after that i checked lancer and i saw that he was awake, i instantly knew i had made a mistake, so i checked in yt and yeah, i ruined my snowgrave route, thankfully i didnt saved after i attacked berdly, so i just loaded my old file
i didnt knew noelle's hp would stop dropping at 55 (which is coincidentally writen as "LV" in roman numbers)
Kris before: forces Noelle to murder everyone.
berdly before: I won't let you use my friend like this, with the power of friendship and good grades, I'll save her.
berdly after: haha you suck, you'll never be as good as me, and I'll never admit my failure to save my friend from mental trauma, teeheehee.
Kris: I guess I'm a good guy again
Noelle: huh?
Pretty neat. Now, what happens if you beat him with ice shock rather than Snowgrave?
It still cancels the route
It cancels the route, and in addition Noelle doesn't even give the unique dialogue at the end. Might make a video on it soon.
@@MysticSlime Ah. Was wondering if he'd be frozen like normal enemies
Yeah I did this the first time because I can't take a hint to save my life. Was disappointed about having to backtrack. It had been a while since my last save.
Berdly wakes up at the library, but his arm is "asleep"
Normally, Im kind of indifferent with games, it doesn't really overwhelmed me but sincerely, when I saw Noelle joking about all of this, and the 5:47 happy sound effect, it filled me with joy knowing that it was over
I love that Berdly just completely forgets everything happened while Noelle still questions it a bit
I really would like to see how everyone reacts to Berdly in Chapter 3 (after snowgrave) sense he's dead.
But, I gotta wait another 3 years for that.
funny how the word "proceed" makes her think to kill someone
Just look at him in a mean way until you win.
That positive jingle at the end is reassuring lol
man. noelle totally knows that kris is possessed and her and susie are totally the contrasting elements of agency in deltarune
eyo what if u do snowgrave route but then just fight Berdly regularly instead of using snowgrave?
It also gets reset to a normal run. Noelle doesn't make the "what was I thinking" dialogue at the end though I believe.
This is the only acceptable ending, you kill everyone except berdly. Berdly will always prevail.
In a snow grave route chapter 2 save, I wonder if in the endgame (back to overworld), Berdly's passing would have their family in despair ,after finding out their son was found cold and straight dead in the computer lab. Noelle would also show the most impacts post game in chapter 3 in the case that you did the snow grave route in a chapter 2 save
The moral is: Your choices don't matter, but eventually and/or cryptically do make specific impacts based on choice in the long-run. Nice Toby, good luck on releasing 3,4 and 5 simultaneously :)
I've seen alternative perspectives that interpret the 'your' choices don't matter as specifically Kris's choices; the 'genocides' in this game will be the player specifically manipulating other characters into murder. Which will be significantly more distressing.
First time I fought Berdly during the Snowgrave Route I didn't even notice the Snowgrave option because I was panicking since Noelle's HP was rapidly depleting. So I just kept spamming "Iceshock" until I got him to 0 hp. The dialogue afterwards was the same as if I'd done a normal route. Never knew there was different dialogue if Berdly's spared.
In my mind i keep wondering if you abort the Snowgrave route, you may still unlock a third route.. I try to explain my idea (forgive my english):
Pacifist route:
The time she spend in the dark world, it's you who solve the puzzles and fight (kinda) the opponents.
Noelle just follows and helps rarely, don't takes too many initiatives, just at the end she answer back to Queen but it's clearly just a moment of rebellion.
When will be back to the light world, in the future is possible she will need to fight against the father's death and everyday the rage of the mother, without anyone helping her if not just Herself. Useless saying would brings her to a big status of depression. The game said your choises doesn't matter, so if eventually you wanna save her somehow later, there's not much you can.. unless, somehow she was enough stronger to getting through all this;
Snowgrave route:
We literally force her to fight (kill) the opponents, makes her solve the puzzles alone (making her stronger) etc.
The problem comes with the fight with Berdly, frozing one of the only friends she has (possible to death or coma), instead you makes her believe that if she wanna do always the right thing She has to follow the orders to who's (stronger/better) than her.
In the future will yes Seem she's getting through the bad stuff will possible happen in the light world, but will eventually makes terrible choises despice the others to became stronger and stronger, realizing she's just keep fleeing away from her feelings and just making hte others suffering.. After all this, it's now too late to "save/spare" her.. unless was clear why we makes her do these actions before;
Third route? :
Before fight Berdly, instead of using Snowgrave, you decide to spare Berdly. The Snowgrave route will abort and she will thinks it was all a joke about, but will remember about the "proceed" words you were saying.. Which will use as example about, yes getting stronger BUT never overcross the line
Considering she learnt to deal with others, solve puzzles by herself, being showed she can do it by herself and not just cause we we're not really controlling her, when will come back to the light world with more self-confidence and strenght needed... It's possible will have to deal about what she kills to being stronger to fight for living but..
Sometimes in life you have to makes choises not matter what, not always are good or evil.
Sometimes it doesn't matter, but you can't just ignore them forever
(I know it's pretty messed up, but i hope you may appreciate my effort ^^; )
Funny how spamton doesn't go NEO to stop you at the end if you spare Berdly and Queen still wants to play
this would be the route where we can obtain the thorn ring from noelle, which can perhaps be used to craft the “strange twisted sword”, which has the same ability as the thorn ring…
a future secret perhaps?
*remembers having this happy accident by spamming iceshock, forgetting about the snowgrave mechanic, and just never realizing it*
The whole run is like “It was just a prank bro”
I like how the sound popped in meaning that it stopped genocide!
Why did Noelle's HP dropped to 55 at the start without getting hit at all?
Trance ring
That's because of the thorn ring she's wearing. If you check the description of the ring, in there it's written that it causes the wearer to receive damage because of the pain it causes.
Also, 55 in Roman numerals will be LV
@@Heatliquid What a funny and absolutely not ominous coincidence...
(help her, please)
@@Heatliquid Holy shit really??? O-O
That's actually a scary coincidence. But knowing Toby Fox, he probably planned that too xd
Human learns devastating ice powers and defeats his enemy by staring at him
I had to see this. Berdly is my fav character, I hated that sinking feeling when he didn’t wake up
What happens if you
At the part where
ㅤ
ㅤ
ㅤ
You know, when you
I think a
@@ps2man38 well you
Then the
Which leads to
Happening
Asgore got THREE stitches as a result and Sans needs a new thigh bone.
Berdly: HAHA! PREPARE TO BE HUMILIA-
Kris: *( 0_0)*
Berdly: _imsorrypleasedonthurtme_
in the post-game is she still startled/traumatized? or does it act like it would during a pacifist run?
In the snowgrave route without aborting, Noelle constantly thinks about the events of what had happened doubting herself and is scared of kris, also if you take off her watch and equip it on kris you get some interesting dialogue at the hospital (in shaking letters) "Kris... h. how did you get that" "Kris: In your dream" then suzie interupts the conversation. Aswell as a bunch more dialogue being different and Noelles personality is more self centered, as well as defaults to using *ice shock* in the game she plays in the real world.
The music is so terrifying😭😭 It's perfect for this battle
Spamton:You had ONE [Failed] JOB!
Increases magic to the max and decreases defense as much as I can: *it’s snowgravin time*
You went through all that genocide just to glare beardly into giving up
I downed the HP of Berdly with the normal ice spell bc i didn't see the snowgrave one and it aborted, I had to head back to my last save point...
Fun Fact: The first time, Us, the Player, try to manipulate someone was in chapter 1, when everybody got locked up in the king castle and Susie rescues up, before Susie solves her 2nd puzzle, she ask where to go and we got a choice to go to the left or right, when we choose something, susie will ask if Kris say something back there, acting like she hears a voice and directly assuming it was Kris's, but we already know for a Fact, thanks to chapter 2 that, that wasn't Kris's voice, it was ours.
toby should track how many kill berdly and spare certain ones in other chapters to see who every likes the most
There is an item you can mix with the ring of thorns in the first and in the second chapter if you bring the ring of thorns to the world where gather all of the recruits, you can make the ring by combining it with something else i don't remember which is a normal item to make a strange looking knife with. You need to have the ring of thorns on you and to do that you need to not use it here and keep it and bring it to the dark world where you combine it. Propably got to the first chapter and second chapter by killing everything you see or at least fighting them and put on the most violent weapons you could find, and also get max TP in the Susie Vs Lancer fight before her final attack and maybe defeat jevil while you are at it.
I know it's 2 years later, but I'm gonna ask: if you abort Snowgrave, do you fight Giga Queen at the end or do you still fight Spamton Neo?
5:03 "maybe we should have gone easier on him" LIKE FREEZING HIM TO DEATH?
I like the little jingle at the end
Like you redeemed yourself to her
You know how after some interactions chris sprite looks at the player but after other its doesnt.
Here its realy fucking creepy, and idk why.
MysticSlime expanding the video for 6 minutes straight by choosing the incorrect options most of the time to [Drink Up That Sweet, sweet, TH-cam revenue sauce]
the only other thing is that it pisses off spamton after you meet him again because he gave you his ring
curious that both ACTs serve to increase the damage that Snowgrave will do, like, Wake increases Noelle's MAGIC, and Glare lowers Berdly's DEFENSE.
I have a theory that the soul (or the player; just whatever force controls Kris) controls/subugates Kris more than normal in this run. After all, Kris is mentioned to look pleased if you find the moss in the normal route. In snowgrave, the moss is just described as "It's some moss." and Noelle doesn't mention Kris's reaction. That would also sort of explain why Kris doesn't fight against any of this; they might legitimately be less capable of it because the soul controls them more strongly, enough so to influence the narration.
And while yes, Kris's character is described as enjoying scaring Noelle, we do get, at least, one hint that Kris doesn't like this. When you meet up with Ralsei and Susie, Susie mentions they look off. She brushes it off as Kris being physically hurt and offers to heal them, but Kris was likely genuinely upset and just had no real way of expressing it.
Its so funny that you basically just glare at Berdly until you can spare him lol
yo I've been trying to do this fight, but it won't let me use the snowgrave even if I have full tp, does anyone know what's going on?
you just stare at him and hes like, welp ill give up
"What are you doing with Kris?" - Berdley
*they’re just standing there… menacingly…*
Fun fact:Aborting a snowgrave after getting the thorn ring is the only way to get the twisted sword, which gives kris a trance effect
If you spare him, then your locked back into the normal run and not genocide
Berdly was so annoying that Spamton just….didn’t want to
Kind of beside the point, but Berdly is so cool in this run!
Noelle you don't understand I needed the thorn ring for the completionist bonus