I have watched most of your video's in the last week and these four on the corners. The simplistic way you explain this stuff is really helping me out. You are telling me things about my car that my chassis builder can't or won't or doesn't have time too. I believe in getting back to basic's and your fundamentals video would be good also. Thank you Sir.
@@jaynealgofast I was just wondering if there was a shotgun coverage video of what changes cause what handling differences in the car. Not in-depth but just an overview of things that can be done to a stock car or limited modified at the track.
Ok so a 3000lbs stock car, would you still recommend the 180-250lbs of spring preload? Or should that number be increased a bit due to more weight on the wheels? And what exactly does the LR preload do besides hold up the car on entry? More preload tightens car everywhere on the gas or little to no preload loosens car on the gas?
We still start in that range due to the heavier car and if we feel like we need more than we will increase it. It help control wheel spin coming off corner also. The idea is to increase overall traction on the tire.
On a typical street stock with the spring on top would you adjust the preload by tightening and loosening the chain at full hike. And I’m assuming full hike is what ever you limit it to? If not how do you determine what full hike would be?
I would not do it that way, but I think that is what is going on with a lot of cars. In the last couple of years, we may have got better about not doing that. When you shorten chain to add drive you reduce the thrust angle between the LR and RF which will increase how load is applied to the RF tire. Can make the car push.
Yes, the Roll Center (RC) or center of gravity (CG) is what we are trying to make move. These are two different points that work in the front of the car. The roll center and the way it moves, and the height of CG determine the amount of spring load we see, while the shock controls it. Now there are other things involved in making this work, this is just a simple version of it. We will start working on a roll center program for you in the near future.
hello, so my question is stacked springs on the left rear, let’s say i have a 12” 175 under a 6” 100. the 175 has a lockout but to control my rideheight while the top spring controls my amount of preload. i’ve always gone by more turns of preload is going to free me basically all around the corner where taking preload out is going to tighten me and give me drive. i’m basically wondering if more or less pre load is going to help me rotate and how it affects the right front and right rear. thank you
Ok, this is something that leaves me asking more questions than answering. This is not the 1st time your statement has been made about adding and taking away load changes the car in an abnormal way. ( I’ve always gone by more turns of preload is going to free me basically all around the corner were taking preload out is going to tighten me and give me drive.) When you said you go by, that maybe the part I am not getting, because removing load and making the car tighter strikes me as funny unless you are starting with a ton of load. This is a Late Model, and a lot of those guys don’t run much load in their cars but let’s say you have 200 pounds of spring load in the car and when you get off throttle and the rear of the car goes into a condition know as auto-turn, where the rear end starts coming around. When you lessen the load, it stops, and you say I have tightened my car up with less extended load. There are a lot of factors that come into play when making this statement and those are still at an unknow. In general, we work on the basis that when you increase the load of the left rear spring (extended load) you increase how hard you are pushing the left rear in the ground which should make the car tighter (Center off). The rear steer the car has on entry and maintaining it to center will make the car free through the corner and adding throttle to the car should keep the car turning. You would not want to increase the cars yah much because it will give up the rr tire as you go around the corner.
Sorry, these are not scripted videos, and I made a mistake, thanks for pointing that out. Good ear. The statement is on extended load: If you keep increasing the load and find yourself above 250 pounds on a regular basis you will need to increase rear % also, and then drop your load back down to 180 pound range.
Yes, the slower you drive in or the more off gas time you have than the more LR shock you will need. The LR shock has become more of a personal item than what is needed for the car. Remember this the more LR you add to a car the less drive it will make off exit, this is not always a bad deal but it is consistent deal for sure.
Jay. Just needing a little bit of a clarification. So you are saying to mount the chain mount as far out towards the birdcage as you can? Most things Ive heard about it was as close to the bell as you can. Thanks
Hear are my thoughts about chain drop: We are all over the map on this, putting it next to the bell is the only thing we can agree on when it comes to LR chain. When someone gives you, a chain drop it is kind of like shock valving, don’t mean much. 3.5” of chain at the bell is a lot vs. 3.5” out by the cage, and what is important is how much is the tire moving. For your own program you can mount it about anywhere you like and make the adjustments needed for your car. But when someone is helping, and you give them a number it seems to be inaccurate how much the tire is dropping. Wonder why everything is going towards the bell, maybe that is the question we should ask???? I mean really, is there a reason I don’t know. Thanks for your question.
@Jay Neal appreciate the response. In my scenario, I only have 4in of drop as it is due to the underslung as I am on some 2009 technology 🤣. From everything that Ive heard. Moving it closer to the bell makes the force of hitting the solid chain less violent. But the other scenario that I see is that it is also a pivot point as you have mentioned in different vocabulary. On the 175 that I run in the RR. I am going to gain travel on the RR as opposed to say a 225 and with that clamp moved in I could gain some LR travel theoretically as long as I dont run into a bind. But I certainly see your point as well. I appreciate the discussion as well
When you add the softer spring, it changes the cars posture (spring rate depends) which makes the other corners move. This makes it hard to be at ride height and every spring rate and load will be different too, this makes it hard to get help. When done you have a car with rear%, left side%, bite and load and this is how you should express what you have when talking to people for help.
On a ha/as, when you put your preload spring back in, I assume you would then adjust LR ride height to initial setting? Then measure cup to cup and calculate pre-load number?
NO sir, after adding the preload spring to the car you need to leave everything alone. The car was right and will get into attitude the same as it would of. If you change after you set the load it will get there with different numbers. Adding extended load to the left rear will change your loads and ride height on the other corners but it is what it is and will be okay.
@@jaynealgofast ok, so I should measure jack bolt length prior to removing setup spring, back off jack bolt, remove set up spring, install pre load spring, and run jack bolt back to original length with the setup spring?
No, you can do it cup to cup with a tape measure and math. Exp (18” 80lbs spring@ 200 lbs of extend load is 2.5” compressed or 15.5 tall) NOTE: math and smasher will not be the same numbers. Yes set scale numbers on car at static and then add LR spring.
Why couldn't you make a video, maybe two or three, using a real car and take your time showing these things? Show how it works. Actually, using a smasher would be nice. Hands-on, for us challenged people.
I love how informative the videos I’m looking to sponge all the info I can so I disagree with the shortening of the video! Continue as you are!
Thanks for your input.
I have watched most of your video's in the last week and these four on the corners. The simplistic way you explain this stuff is really helping me out. You are telling me things about my car that my chassis builder can't or won't or doesn't have time too. I believe in getting back to basic's and your fundamentals video would be good also. Thank you Sir.
Thanks for watching and being a part of the fix. Keep digging.
Really enjoying these videos. I’ll search through your videos more to make sure you don’t already have a video about my question. Haha.
It's all good, ask anyway, most likely need to update some videos any ways.
@@jaynealgofast I was just wondering if there was a shotgun coverage video of what changes cause what handling differences in the car. Not in-depth but just an overview of things that can be done to a stock car or limited modified at the track.
Thanks for the videos Jay. Great info , Wish you had these out when I was working on a Modified.
Thank you.
Video on pullbar angles and what each degree change does on a USRA BMod
This would be a little harder to do, but is something to work on.
Ok so a 3000lbs stock car, would you still recommend the 180-250lbs of spring preload? Or should that number be increased a bit due to more weight on the wheels?
And what exactly does the LR preload do besides hold up the car on entry? More preload tightens car everywhere on the gas or little to no preload loosens car on the gas?
We still start in that range due to the heavier car and if we feel like we need more than we will increase it. It help control wheel spin coming off corner also. The idea is to increase overall traction on the tire.
On a typical street stock with the spring on top would you adjust the preload by tightening and loosening the chain at full hike. And I’m assuming full hike is what ever you limit it to? If not how do you determine what full hike would be?
I would not do it that way, but I think that is what is going on with a lot of cars. In the last couple of years, we may have got better about not doing that. When you shorten chain to add drive you reduce the thrust angle between the LR and RF which will increase how load is applied to the RF tire. Can make the car push.
What are your thoughts on using the roll centers to load the tires and how that affects the car differently than the shocks and springs?
Yes, the Roll Center (RC) or center of gravity (CG) is what we are trying to make move. These are two different points that work in the front of the car. The roll center and the way it moves, and the height of CG determine the amount of spring load we see, while the shock controls it. Now there are other things involved in making this work, this is just a simple version of it. We will start working on a roll center program for you in the near future.
hello, so my question is stacked springs on the left rear, let’s say i have a 12” 175 under a 6” 100. the 175 has a lockout but to control my rideheight while the top spring controls my amount of preload. i’ve always gone by more turns of preload is going to free me basically all around the corner where taking preload out is going to tighten me and give me drive. i’m basically wondering if more or less pre load is going to help me rotate and how it affects the right front and right rear. thank you
Ok, this is something that leaves me asking more questions than answering. This is not the 1st time your statement has been made about adding and taking away load changes the car in an abnormal way. ( I’ve always gone by more turns of preload is going to free me basically all around the corner were taking preload out is going to tighten me and give me drive.) When you said you go by, that maybe the part I am not getting, because removing load and making the car tighter strikes me as funny unless you are starting with a ton of load. This is a Late Model, and a lot of those guys don’t run much load in their cars but let’s say you have 200 pounds of spring load in the car and when you get off throttle and the rear of the car goes into a condition know as auto-turn, where the rear end starts coming around. When you lessen the load, it stops, and you say I have tightened my car up with less extended load. There are a lot of factors that come into play when making this statement and those are still at an unknow. In general, we work on the basis that when you increase the load of the left rear spring (extended load) you increase how hard you are pushing the left rear in the ground which should make the car tighter (Center off). The rear steer the car has on entry and maintaining it to center will make the car free through the corner and adding throttle to the car should keep the car turning. You would not want to increase the cars yah much because it will give up the rr tire as you go around the corner.
7:23 extended load - consistently over 250 decrease rear percent. Under 180 increase rear percent ? Can you explain that a little further
Seems like it should be opposite to me.
Sorry, these are not scripted videos, and I made a mistake, thanks for pointing that out. Good ear. The statement is on extended load: If you keep increasing the load and find yourself above 250 pounds on a regular basis you will need to increase rear % also, and then drop your load back down to 180 pound range.
@@jaynealgofast Thanks for this question, I was giving you the orator the benefit of the doubt, trying to puzzle it out!! Ha!!
Does all of this change if you drive hard into the corner or just roll into the corner?
Yes, the slower you drive in or the more off gas time you have than the more LR shock you will need. The LR shock has become more of a personal item than what is needed for the car. Remember this the more LR you add to a car the less drive it will make off exit, this is not always a bad deal but it is consistent deal for sure.
Jay. Just needing a little bit of a clarification. So you are saying to mount the chain mount as far out towards the birdcage as you can? Most things Ive heard about it was as close to the bell as you can. Thanks
Hear are my thoughts about chain drop: We are all over the map on this, putting it next to the bell is the only thing we can agree on when it comes to LR chain. When someone gives you, a chain drop it is kind of like shock valving, don’t mean much. 3.5” of chain at the bell is a lot vs. 3.5” out by the cage, and what is important is how much is the tire moving. For your own program you can mount it about anywhere you like and make the adjustments needed for your car. But when someone is helping, and you give them a number it seems to be inaccurate how much the tire is dropping. Wonder why everything is going towards the bell, maybe that is the question we should ask???? I mean really, is there a reason I don’t know. Thanks for your question.
@Jay Neal appreciate the response. In my scenario, I only have 4in of drop as it is due to the underslung as I am on some 2009 technology 🤣. From everything that Ive heard. Moving it closer to the bell makes the force of hitting the solid chain less violent. But the other scenario that I see is that it is also a pivot point as you have mentioned in different vocabulary. On the 175 that I run in the RR. I am going to gain travel on the RR as opposed to say a 225 and with that clamp moved in I could gain some LR travel theoretically as long as I dont run into a bind. But I certainly see your point as well. I appreciate the discussion as well
What is the reason for setting the car up with the 175# spring and then changing it to whatever you’re gonna run with afterwards?
When you add the softer spring, it changes the cars posture (spring rate depends) which makes the other corners move. This makes it hard to be at ride height and every spring rate and load will be different too, this makes it hard to get help. When done you have a car with rear%, left side%, bite and load and this is how you should express what you have when talking to people for help.
On a ha/as, when you put your preload spring back in, I assume you would then adjust LR ride height to initial setting? Then measure cup to cup and calculate pre-load number?
NO sir, after adding the preload spring to the car you need to leave everything alone. The car was right and will get into attitude the same as it would of. If you change after you set the load it will get there with different numbers. Adding extended load to the left rear will change your loads and ride height on the other corners but it is what it is and will be okay.
@@jaynealgofast ok, so I should measure jack bolt length prior to removing setup spring, back off jack bolt, remove set up spring, install pre load spring, and run jack bolt back to original length with the setup spring?
Do you need a spring smasher to check extended load? If a guy doesn’t have a smasher would you just set ride height and static wedge on the scales?
No, you can do it cup to cup with a tape measure and math. Exp (18” 80lbs spring@ 200 lbs of extend load is 2.5” compressed or 15.5 tall) NOTE: math and smasher will not be the same numbers. Yes set scale numbers on car at static and then add LR spring.
Video on USRA stock car's
What are you wanting to talk about or you mean a mini series on stock cars.
@@jaynealgofast☝🏻this
Why couldn't you make a video, maybe two or three, using a real car and take your time showing these things? Show how it works. Actually, using a smasher would be nice.
Hands-on, for us challenged people.