Improve Your Calligraphy! Handwriting Basics with Rajiv Surendra and Mike Ward (Spencerian Script)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 139

  • @AmyAnnetteHenion
    @AmyAnnetteHenion 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +62

    Thank you Rajiv and Mike for carrying this beautiful and practical art into the future. As a handwriting advocate, I get a surprising amount of pushback from folks who insist that cursive handwriting should die out. I’m glad to know that there are still people who care about preserving this practice.

  • @alisondavis2601
    @alisondavis2601 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +45

    You are the Mr. Rogers for grownups. We learn so much and always leave feeling good. Thank you, Neighbor.

    • @tracyrampone5955
      @tracyrampone5955 4 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I was thinking the same thing! (Mr. Rogers) So happy his video was in my feed.

  • @loretta7851
    @loretta7851 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    I’m old now but when I was in Catholic school in the 1970s, our teachers required us to have a felt blotter on every desk and it made writing so much more pleasant. I had totally forgotten about this until I had seen the beautiful leather blotter that was made specifically for you. What a wonderful gift.!!

  • @diamondslashranch
    @diamondslashranch 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

    It made me cry to see my Grandfather’s handwriting again. Thank you gentlemen.

  • @marionandrews176
    @marionandrews176 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +35

    Loved this. Mike has to come back for another video.

  • @neilchisholm797
    @neilchisholm797 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Great video. I spent a long time learning Spencerian Penmanship and it’s now my natural hand writing.
    I think it might be worth discussing and showing the different styles of this script. From my research and experience there were three regularly used Spencerian Script.
    It was the most commonly taught script in the US in the mid to late 1800. It was divided conveniently into three scripts.
    1. There was Business Spencerian Script. This is what would have been taught at schools. The simple shapes that the children would have practiced that formed the upper and lower case letters. There was no flourishes, it was simple correspondence from one business to another. Some of the upper case letters were naturally flourished, such as A, H and S. They were however the simplest of flourishes.
    2. Correspondence Spencerian was the script that both men and women would use to pass notes to others or in general non-business correspondence of which there would have been a considerable amount. There was no telephone or Facebook or Messenger or SMS. However there were at least two maybe three postal deliveries a day. A note written at 9 am and posted would arrive in the same town by lunch time! The script used was more flourished than business Spencerian but not a lot. Brevity and getting the message to the recipient was the most important but it still needed to look fancy and time had been spent writing it.
    3. Ladies Spencerian was the fanciest of all. This had a multitude of flourishes and would look utterly gorgeous. This what was called the ladies “Bonne heure de jour” (translated from the French as the good hour of the day). She would be dressed in her morning finery and sat at a special desk specifically for the writing of cards in a leisurely fashion, it was called a Davenport. Here she would write her most personal letters and notes, invitations etc.
    She would use special paper, some times almost card that was especially printed. She would write the note/invitation first but leaving room at the beginning and end of her sentences for flourishes.
    Once the information was written she would then go back and flourish the Capitals and the paragraph endings. An accomplished calligrapher this could take some time and this is why it was undertaken after the missive had been written. A mistake in the writing of the invitation could be discarded with little time wasted, however if the flourishing was undertaken while writing the invitation precious time could have been lost.
    I love the versatility of Spencerian script. It’s very legible (maybe not so much for the millennials, but they will learn the value of good hand writing eventually I hope or our society is doomed!!! 🙂)
    Thank you for this video, I loved it and it’s reinforced my love of good handwriting. I really do believe it shows an important gas et of our personality as to whether we wish to clearly explain what we need to be undertaken or scrawl that just demands a task be undertaken and for further info to be explained verbally.

  • @AmbrosiaK
    @AmbrosiaK 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

    Nice to hear cursive is making a comeback in schools (hopefully!) and I loved watching it taken to an art form

  • @moonbeet
    @moonbeet 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I love writing in cursive, and this inspires me so much. It's comforting to know that there are still people around trying to keep this beautiful Spencerian script alive. May younger generations appreciate this, too.

  • @sivabala5232
    @sivabala5232 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +29

    This held my interest the whole time.

    • @frighten3159
      @frighten3159 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Read this as ''held my breath the whole time.'' 😅

    • @sivabala5232
      @sivabala5232 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@frighten3159 😂😂😂

    • @erhtsee
      @erhtsee 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@frighten3159 i held my breathe! i could never flawlessly execute what Mike did, especially the magical S meeting the L on 'Abdul Singh"

  • @lauraro345
    @lauraro345 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    I wasn't expecting to find my name in this class, now I have a wonderful way to write it❤ Thank you

    • @rajivsurendra
      @rajivsurendra  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      You're welcome 🙂

  • @carolynthompson6518
    @carolynthompson6518 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    I’m so happy I was educated in the era of cursive writing. Brilliant video ❤❤

  • @lukegilbreth5884
    @lukegilbreth5884 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    First commenter! Nothing brings me more joy than seeing one of my favorite people sharing something they love.

  • @mysteriousu5528
    @mysteriousu5528 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    This was an absolute blast. I enjoyed thoroughly every second of Mike improvising it effortlessly.
    Thank you Rajiv for inviting Michael again on the channel.
    Can you guys make a video of different fountain pens at different price points for beginners, intermediates who want to take calligraphy up a notch or even improve one's handwriting?
    There are videos by people who are not calligraphers.
    Thank you very much and have a wonderful weekend folks.

  • @burritoqueenx
    @burritoqueenx 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Rajiv mentions his friend Laura in a lot of other videos, it's so cute that he picked her name for the flourishes

  • @jennievpollard77
    @jennievpollard77 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I attempted to improve my handwriting a few years ago and stopped. After watching this episode, I'm motivated to continue.

  • @jenise2503
    @jenise2503 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Mike is so adorable❤ As soon as I saw what the video was about I got my lined paper and pencil ready. I loved this practice session!

  • @jmaskos9601
    @jmaskos9601 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    WOW! I genuinely got misty when Rajiv asked Mike to write Laura, such a lovely surprise love letter to a cherished friend. Then that magical flourish moment had me fully tear up! Simply stunning. 🤓😍

  • @atMaul
    @atMaul 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Never stop making this content!!!!!!!

  • @kailee5694
    @kailee5694 6 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    I love Spencerian. I taught myself in the 80’s when Michael Sull was the reigning young expert. People used to take pride in penmanship. It is so nice to see there are some young people trying to keep this alive. I may have to dig out my pointed pens and ink. 😊

  • @crispaycrunch
    @crispaycrunch 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I’m going to have my young kids watch this-they’re going to be amazed that real people today can do this! Bravo boys!!

  • @AB.926
    @AB.926 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The way he finished with those flourishes with the second Laura! I truly now know what Rajiv means when he says it’s magical.

  • @kubr1ck36
    @kubr1ck36 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Thank you Rajiv and Mike!

  • @janelte
    @janelte 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Oooooooooooooh .... Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! It's like a poem in line and breath and movement. Love it. Thank you both.

  • @AA-jn3oc
    @AA-jn3oc 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Who knew handwriting had “principles”! 👏🏻

  • @floraluxla
    @floraluxla 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Beautiful! Love your caligraphy vids! Please bring Mike back and make more.

  • @DwarfDragonwulf
    @DwarfDragonwulf 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Thank you, Rajiv, for yet another beautiful video that has made my mind peaceful, and Thank you Mike.

  • @sheilamann6721
    @sheilamann6721 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Definitely magic! Love this!!

  • @ruthcarter8895
    @ruthcarter8895 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Yay! Another handwriting video. I started teaching myself calligraphy because of your instruction!😊❤

  • @bonnerdebbie
    @bonnerdebbie 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Awesome video Rajiv, I was enthralled by Mike's tutorial!

  • @ranji8084
    @ranji8084 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Thank you so much Mike and Rajiv for this great tutorial. ❤️

  • @marilinaotero9328
    @marilinaotero9328 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    My grandfather's was a calligrapher. He did beautiful work which I save many of his writings. He was born in the late 19th century . My sister and I loved to go into his office and see him do his magic.! That's why we have a love for papers and pens❤️

  • @annienigro4624
    @annienigro4624 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I recognized Mike immediately from his Montblanc Inspire Writing series! Truly a master calligrapher. 🖋️ thanks Rajiv for sharing.

  • @SpottedTiger89
    @SpottedTiger89 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Haven't watched the full video, but I already know it will be great! It's nice to see Mike again!

  • @cassandragunkel6101
    @cassandragunkel6101 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Great chemistry, inspiring lesson. I’d enjoy a class with these two passionate calligraphers!

  • @vernonbrana8205
    @vernonbrana8205 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This inspired me to start writing in cursive again. We used to take this very seriously in primary school in the Philippines. It was a firece competition between classmates. Ugh. I miss those days. Rajiv's series on this made me take my notebooks and pens out again. Thank you.

  • @elizab.7428
    @elizab.7428 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    True artists--bothof you !

  • @LATTEREIGND1114
    @LATTEREIGND1114 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Mr Rajiv Surendra I am new to your TH-cam @ & HGTV Channels. You sir are a true Renaissance Gentleman indeed! I am becoming an ardent admirer of yours most earnestly in a passionate wholesomely way . Handsome, suave, culturally apt, creative, and one whose learning to enjoy life's simplest pleasures with quality, integrity, and premium style. I commend you! I am watching and enjoying everything that you're sharing.

    • @LATTEREIGND1114
      @LATTEREIGND1114 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      P.S. I 'm YOUR Marie Kondo guy! 😉

  • @inannamystyrica3762
    @inannamystyrica3762 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Many years ago i had an older woman who was a customer at my job who did her terminal T's like this - and i ADORED it... i always use it now with my regular handwriting. :) It's amazing.

  • @binxiao6175
    @binxiao6175 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Funny. This is how I used to learn basic handwriting in primary school in Germany 45 years ago and here I learn it is calligraphy. Love you are so excited about it! Mike is a true Artist. …. I feel a tid bit old now 😅, hahaha.

  • @desco7628
    @desco7628 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    My dad thought me all these!! Amazing!!!🎉❤

  • @judithgrace8359
    @judithgrace8359 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Flashback to my little red Palmer Method practice book…man, doing those ovals over and over again. I’m guessing that the Palmer method had its origins in the Spencerian method.
    I do have beautiful cursive handwriting.

  • @iagomfr
    @iagomfr 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I really enjoy how enthusiastic both of you sound

  • @dingus1dangus
    @dingus1dangus 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    im genuinly so happy for your channel this taight me spencirian script ive watched it over and over learning each letter

  • @cynthialasky8686
    @cynthialasky8686 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Any tips for a left-handed person? We tend to drag our hand over everything we write.

    • @rajivsurendra
      @rajivsurendra  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Some of the most successful calligraphers (including the former head of the White House calligraphy dept.) were left-handed. There are ways of lifting the palm to not smudge the writing. I strongly suggest joining IAMPETH and seeing help from the teachers of the courses offered at their annual convention.

    • @cynthialasky8686
      @cynthialasky8686 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@rajivsurendraThanks. Good to know.

  • @colleenbutler120
    @colleenbutler120 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Magic…Flourish the heck out of it…. Such wonderful, beautiful content this video has provided! Thank you Rajiv and Mr. Mike!

  • @Maria-h7c8h
    @Maria-h7c8h 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Beautiful! Loved it!

    • @rajivsurendra
      @rajivsurendra  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Thanks for watching!

  • @RHYTHMgirlMo
    @RHYTHMgirlMo 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Love this lesson! Thank you for bringing this important skill in-to-view...inadvertently slowing us down and helping us realize the beauty in the details and finer things in life! xo

  • @2youngbon2
    @2youngbon2 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

    What a beautiful and informative video! Thank you both!

  • @emotionalreader3529
    @emotionalreader3529 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Oh what perfect timing I brought myself a fountain pen set a few days ago with the goal of learning to write cursive and improve my hand writing over all ❤

  • @jeansunderland6115
    @jeansunderland6115 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Amazing talent!

  • @FairnessFobe
    @FairnessFobe 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I so enjoy thise calligraphy videos. The front page of my today's newspaper is looking Spencerian!
    I like the way it's acceptable to breakaway from standard running writing, which is what I learned to WRITE in as a child in my early school days.
    Such as making the cross of a T a flourish, & putting the first 'a' in Laura inside the lower tail of the capital L. And the little loop around 1 tail of the 'h' that continues on towards the capital S in Singh.
    I enjoyed the simple 3d effect your guest applied to the tail of the 'u' in 'you'. Just 1 simple stroke & it jumps out at you.

  • @k-star9957
    @k-star9957 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Love this series. Please have Mike over talk more about handwriting!

  • @thinkuthink
    @thinkuthink 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    All this excellence in one room 🥹❤ Love when you two get together, I feel and learn so much 🙇🏾‍♀️🦋✨

  • @pamelasorrells2187
    @pamelasorrells2187 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Fascinating and gorgeous 💙

  • @flatcreek4665
    @flatcreek4665 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Fun video Rajiv. The last video you posted with Mike inspired me to give this a try. I checked out a few books from the library.

  • @lauradevine0
    @lauradevine0 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hehe! The joy that I felt when my name was the one being written will forever be unmatched!!

  • @carolvillanueva3728
    @carolvillanueva3728 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you. My grandchildren want to now learn script. They had stopped teaching it in school. I'm now working with them. I have to say you are a great teacher as well (and very handsome). Keep up the great videos. 😊

  • @Nancy-cm1rh
    @Nancy-cm1rh 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Great job u both !!!!!!🎉🎉

  • @sixtysense
    @sixtysense 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Fabulous! So binding and interesting ❤❤

  • @ginnybraun8576
    @ginnybraun8576 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is wonderful! Please do more videos on Spencerian. Rajiv, you have inspired me to purchase the Spencerian text book, but nothing like seeing you and Mike teach in person! Thank you so much!🥰

  • @scpmdt
    @scpmdt 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    That is how I learnt to write years & years ago when I started kindergarten. We don’t seem to write like that anymore. At least we are not taught to write anymore. We have lost the art of doing things properly. Sad but true. It’s lovely to see a young man pursue crafts that were made to be admired & look beautiful. Always wait in anticipation for his next vlog.

  • @Mokkkkkkkkkkkk
    @Mokkkkkkkkkkkk 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Instantly excited for this video

  • @Angela-qc1ex
    @Angela-qc1ex 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Thank you for the beautiful information.. GM!

  • @maddys3955
    @maddys3955 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Amazing video! Thank you for explaining this to someone who wants to improve her handwriting 😊

  • @shiao3990
    @shiao3990 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    love it love it love it!

  • @justletmesleep_
    @justletmesleep_ 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is so lovely, thank you so much for this video!

  • @AM-by5er
    @AM-by5er 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you Rajiv and Mike! ✍❣

  • @sallyr.6891
    @sallyr.6891 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    My handwriting deteriorated now that I mostly use the computer. Thanks for this.

  • @Wee162
    @Wee162 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Fascinating! Glad I learned cursive as a child (without the beautiful flourishes, unfortunately).. As a native of northeastern Ohio, it’s so interesting to know that the Spencerian (sp?) script originated in Geneva on the Lake!

  • @eily_b
    @eily_b 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I just recently found my first class notebooks in the attic, where we learned to write and this is *exactly* how we learned it. We started with just lines and bows and then connected them to letters. I had totally forgotten that. That was 40 years ago and we learned cursive back then with fountain pens.

  • @robinbaker3346
    @robinbaker3346 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you Rajiv and Mike for sharing this beautiful and artful video. ❤

  • @baparisi
    @baparisi 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Beautiful video! Could you show us how your chalkboards are hung. I have one of similar size and it’s very heavy. Wondering how it is done without a full frame.

  • @pamelapeters3342
    @pamelapeters3342 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I would love to see you do Ordinary Days videos. Sort of like a "come with me" on my daily routine.
    Also, a how-to mend your clothes video would be great.
    How to grocery shop.
    Picking the best fruits and vegetables.
    How to get ready for the seasons/how to appreciate the seasons.
    I absolutely love your videos and your practice to life. Im hungry for more. Lol.
    Loving your channel.

  • @staryfruity
    @staryfruity 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The content I needed. Thank you.

  • @hoedown175
    @hoedown175 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Love this video. Definitely love this collab

  • @cedarbylard
    @cedarbylard 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great video. Thanks for that.

  • @infamcus
    @infamcus 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Mike was phenomenal! I will say that I overall preferred Rajiv’s handwriting, especially when uninterrupted. It might be that Rajiv is more acclimated to the chalkboard.

  • @laurafetterley
    @laurafetterley 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    My name never looked so beautiful!! ❤️❤️❤️ Loved watching the two of you nerd out over this practise, so beautiful and refined.

  • @DajanaWindtSpaargaren
    @DajanaWindtSpaargaren 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Mr Rajiv, this video was great. Thank you!

    • @rajivsurendra
      @rajivsurendra  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thanks for watching ;-)

  • @azzamarwan5476
    @azzamarwan5476 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I enjoyed the video so much , It's so beautiful 😍 way of old fashion way of writing 🎉🎉 thank you for sharing .🎉🎉

  • @dappadandy
    @dappadandy หลายเดือนก่อน

    When you spoke about the T, I wonder if that is where the saying comes from -crossing the T and dotting the i

  • @girlathebeach
    @girlathebeach 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I'm wondering as a left handed writer if it will be more difficult to learn this beautiful art. If so, what may those difficulties be? Are there any tips for left handed writers in learning and writing calligraphy?

    • @Englishroserebecca
      @Englishroserebecca 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Rajiv suggested something called IAMPETH to another left handed writer.

    • @girlathebeach
      @girlathebeach 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Englishroserebecca thank you!

  • @blackmamba3427
    @blackmamba3427 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Awesome video ❤

  • @Englishroserebecca
    @Englishroserebecca 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    More writing videos please 💃🥰 love them

  • @amandaluker9268
    @amandaluker9268 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I’m a 70 year old woman in Australia who got her pen licence in grade 5. We got a dip pen and our desk had an inkwell. We were made to learn italic which was very triangular in style . It was quite harsh in style not rounded at all. I haven’t managed to see this script anywhere else
    I would love to relearn this script. If you can help me find this I would be grateful.

  • @kauemoura
    @kauemoura 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    9:00 I believe that people won't necessarily recognize the letter because we're just taught the main shapes without taking into account the strokes needed to write nor the linking strokes and the embellishing motions just for the looks, when he's writing the S we can clearly see the slender S shape around the 9 minutes mark, everything before and after are just flourishes.

  • @inescerejo834
    @inescerejo834 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Something very interesting: I'm bilingual portuguese and german and learned both scripts. The so called normal "r" is what's always used in portuguese hand writing and the final "r" Mike showed is the one used in german handwriting. And I always have to switch it according to the language I'm using otherwise I hear a "what's that letter?" 😂😂

  • @MariaJoao-qg5ts
    @MariaJoao-qg5ts 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    So beautiful and realy special⭐💫

  • @kathymilicicreative8724
    @kathymilicicreative8724 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Just. So. Amazing. I see a TV show in your future! ❤

    • @saramartinez103
      @saramartinez103 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      This is the TV show! Conventional TV is dying. He said in one of his videos that he tried having a TV show and I guess they lost the chance to have an incredible fountain of knowledge which we now enjoy on a regular basis......Rajiv Surendra🎉🎉🎉🎉

  • @lisaphillips4627
    @lisaphillips4627 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    WOW...Well done!

  • @sophiegees
    @sophiegees 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you, amazing stuff !!! ❤❤❤

  • @Carnold_YT
    @Carnold_YT 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This reminds me of the CD-booklet that came with the album 'The Southern harmony and musical companion' from the Black Crowes. All lyrics were written out in beautiful handwriting. Does anyone know that?

  • @beckid5107
    @beckid5107 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wow! Beautiful!

  • @m.g.9042
    @m.g.9042 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Fascinating!

  • @oliviagarrett3925
    @oliviagarrett3925 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Love it

  • @Officeaccount3250
    @Officeaccount3250 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Like Mr. Ward stated, it is always good to be mindful of the D, I know I am.

  • @rockygerber2465
    @rockygerber2465 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    That was beautiful

  • @user-nc2rf1hj1c
    @user-nc2rf1hj1c 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The capital S at 9:20 contains a hot spot at the middle?

  • @trishwoods
    @trishwoods 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you Rajiv and Mike for this beautiful handwriting instruction and examples along with a fun “visit” with you both 🫶🏼🤗 In high school I practiced “fancy” handwriting and regularly got told “It’s too fancy.” “I can’t read your writing”. I let it go mostly for years and years because of the negative feedback 😢 Now, as an adult, I am revisiting things I loved as a teen and THIS is what I wanted to do and didn’t quite know how to learn it. Yep - before TH-cam! Thanks for the inspiration and the energy you bring to the practice!!!

  • @PaulaHeartland
    @PaulaHeartland 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Loved! Question: Would you include numbers sometime? ❤