That was...interesting. I tried a double blind three times and all three picked the Pioneer as better. Weird. However - I just don't for one moment believe the cables make the difference 'audiophiles' think they do. Compliance of the stylus, neutrality of the cartridge, the ability of the tonearm to be transparent, absolutely stable speed, those matter.
As long as you don't go really cheap on the cables. I spend about £30 on each of mine. No way I'd go up to £200 each! Gotta have decent speaker cable too. Can't believe some still use thin bell wire...!
I have an vintage Pioneer PL-117d fitted with an Audio Technica AT-VM95EN/H , Goldring E3 and Nagaoka MP110 and love it to death I've been thinking about a table upgrade lately to a Fluance RT85 and after hearing some comparisons like this decided that I will stick with my Pioneer PL-117D - thanks!
Those are some nice carts. I have the Nagaoka on a Pioneer PL-12D with a Sony tonearm (in my other videos, under "Frankenstein" if you're interested in hearing it). The Fluance - as I have stated before - is a nice turntable. For some, it's a worthy investment at the $500 price point to listen to vinyl. Not everyone is fortunate to have or find a good condition vintage 'table. It's awesome that you have one. They are getting cheaper... that's for sure. LOL Glad this video offered some value to you. Peace
@@tachikaze7 I considered the Fluance RT83, actually pulled the trigger then cancelled the purchase because of how long it would take the vendor to ship it and then how long it would take to arrive. Availability here in Australia is always a challenge. In the end I bought the Denon DP400 in piano black even though I hate the stupid dust cover and honestly I can't tell the different. I probably prefer my vintage Pioneer deck.
A turntables job is a relatively easy one, spins the record while maintaining constant speed which is flutter in the wake of heavily recorded passages and also have low wow and rumble. And if it does that it pretty much stays out of the picture sort of speak and let’s the cartridge and tonearm do it’s job. So basically with that said, and if the turntable does all the things I mentioned correctly you then actually hear only the differences in the types of cartridges.
Thanks for the comment. Provided the Auto functions are in good working order, this turntable can easily rival many modern 'tables on the market. Pretty much all of the PL line from the 70's sound really awesome. The Klipsch speakers in this video are the RB-51 model (I believe...)
@tachikaze7 I got it home and connected it and it plays beautifully. It's in showroom condition both in terms of esthetics and function. I have my ortofon 2m blue cartridge mounted on it.
I just resurrected my 80s era MCS turntable with a new belt ($5.99) before I thought I'd be throwing it in the trash. Fired up the ancient Sherwood amp, pulled out some vinyl for the first time in years and everything not only worked but sounded good. Heck, it's still the original stylus and cartridge from the 80s. Then I hooked up a little tube preamp & cables I had ordered and put on the new Tears for Fears album and was just transfixed with analog sound after years of MP3s. When I had thought I'd need a new turntable and I started looking at what I'd probably want to buy in 2022, it didn't take long to get well into the $500+ range. Better turntables in 2022 by specs but not nearly as much as I had expected, and I certainly didn't have the money back in the 80s to buy a high-end turntable. So, if you don't need Bluetooth connectivity or some of those contemporary bells & whistles in your turntable, I now see why a lot of people are apparently looking for older audio equipment. I saw a version of my turntable on sale online for more than I originally paid for mine! So, be bold and go old.
Awesome! Love the tag line - "Be bold and go old!" Like most things, there are merits to both sides of the equation. In the end, it comes down to the listen, their needs and how it all SOUNDS to them.
Now this is a cool comparison - I love vintage turntables and prefer those with S Shaped tonearms - I love being able to swap carts and stylus combo's simply by removing the headshell - I have the Pioneer PL-117D with a Audio Technica VM530EN and have been curious about this new Fluance RT85 which seems impossible to find here in Australia. I'm also curious to hear a Fluance RT85 without the Ortofon rig and replaced with a good AT rig instead...
For me, the Ortofon on the RT-85 is good, but seems to favor the high frequencies a little too much. I have found that the Nagaoka MP-110 is a very nice compliment to the Fluance for many genres.
The capacitance and resistance may be an issue with long cables, even with the best. I keep mine under 1 meter length. Moving coil carts are most sensitive to this since the signal is very weak. Thanks for sharing.
I just did a similar test with a Pioneer I got for free yesterday. It is in superb condition but the motor obviously hadn’t been lubricated because that’s all I had to do to get it to work. I also cleaned and lubricayed the spindle/port. I recently bought the fluance rt with an upgraded cartridge, a plexi platter and a record weight for $275 and thought it was a good deal but damn why do I like the sound of the Pioneer better?
LOL! That is the million dollar question... isn't it. The Fluance is a great table - clean, accurate, stable. But sometimes there's a "romance" that resides in things that are from yesteryear, with all of their flaws and quirks. Like a 911 (997) vs a 911 (964). Sometimes, the beauty is strictly in the perception. Happy to hear you found one of these! And FREE! Peace.
Pioneer had warmer tones, and a slightly higher low frequency volume. Fluance may have been more balanced, but not my tatstes with that cartridge. Id put a Grado in myself, to get a similar sound. Nice video, and Sound quality.
Thanks for the comment. I have just come into the possession of a F1+ MI cart. It has a sound signature that to me is very reminiscent of the Pickering MI's I have. It would be nice to make a video sometime in the future with that Grado and see how well it mates with the vintage 'tables I have.
Got a planner 2 but my 1978 direct drive pioneer pl 518 blows it out of the water in all dept. I don’t think my rega will hold up 45 years that’s for sure. Late 70s to early 80s Was turntable value and build quality peak especially Japanese made decks.
Could not agree more. Sure, there is a certain "mystique" revolving around the vintage revival. But there is so much more to the quality and pride that went into those pieces that just cannot exist in a "throw-away" culture that permeates the market today. The PL 518 is a great 'table - solid, heavy, reliable. Thanks for the comment! Peace.
I have a PL 115 and a RT 83,,, I like the Pioneer better but it needs restoring, it's had A LOT of records played on it through the years, just wanna say that yours looks beautiful and yes I thought the Pioneer sounded better
Good video and quite a surprise. I'm looking to re-enter vinyl world after many decades off. Sure I love vintage (who doesn't?), but I wouldn't like the maintenance and repair hassles implicit in an older machine (any older machine for that matter). So I'm inclined to buy new and had looked at the Fluance - the RT82 fits my budget. BUT . . . this Pioneer sounded better to me. Can I really determine sound quality coming through my budget TH-cam internet speakers? Nevertheless, the Pioneer sounds crisper and cleaner to these old ears . . .
It is really hard to say how much the video I made sounds to the "end ear"... I mean, it has gone from my system, filtered in through (who knows what YT does) and then that final filter of your listening set up. BUT, what can be deduced from all that is that whatever short-comings all of that transmission to your ears ends up being, it is being applied to both turntables, and therefore if one sounds better to you than the other... well. Up-keep on vintage is real. It may be a very simple table that has very little mechanics involved, or a full auto, "do it all for you" type. In some way, they all need some attention. Some less than others. Of course, its kind of like saying that a Porsche 964 needs more work... than a 2022 Miata. Would the Miata even make it to 40+ years old...? Fluance RT is good. Not the best sounding to me. But I do not think it would last 40 years.
@@tachikaze7 Alright, you sound very knowledgeable, please forgive me for opening a can of worms . . . if you were me, can I ask which new and vintage turntables you would buy with a budget of $350? Just a few names would be fine - thanks!
@@fredberger3155 LOL! You’re genuine curiosity is far from a can of worms. You should read some of the other comments I sometimes get. People have some very entitled opinions, and have no issue with sharing them. The Fluance is absolutely solid. So you cannot go wrong there. It doesn’t sound like you are convinced about that one, though. So, go back to my other comparison: if you have the unique opportunity to actually own a Porsche 964, you choose this over the Miata because it fulfills something that goes well beyond the way it sounds and drives - it offers nostalgia, history and quality (in most cases) that does seem to be long dismissed in this “throw-away” culture. Sure, the 964 is expensive. So you absolutely want to buy it from a solid, reputable seller… because it needs to work. In the end, you gotta ask yourself: Why even bother with vinyl? It’s pricey. Prone to damage. Questionable (at best) if it is “better” than digital. So yeah… why even mess with it? Apple Music offers TONS high res Lossless audio. The ONLY reason anyone would want to delve into vinyl today is because they are searching for something else… something beyond what some would call sterile, lifeless digital music. Answer to your actual question: Sansui SR-222, or SR-525. Pioneer PL-12D, PL-518, or PL-115. He’ll, you could even go with an AudioTechnica LP-120 and (now this is probably a can of worms…) be doing much better than the Fluance. At least you can adjust the height of that tonearm. I’ve owned and sold every one of those turntables mentioned. So, I am speaking from actual experience. Personally, I love Sansui… so, I’d go with that SR-222. And no, just in case you thought this was a pitch, I’m not selling one at this time. 😂 I’m just about trying to help people who seem like they are serious about wanting help. Look on Reverb if vintage is sounding interesting to you. Good, solid sellers there.
@@tachikaze7 What a fantastic response! Thanks for taking your time to enlighten me, I really wasn't expecting that effort. Can't repay you, but I have subscribed. For my readings, most people like vintage Technicas, which are therefore very pricey; I'm happy to add Sansui and Pioneer to my search list. Not in a big rush to buy, because I sometimes find the search the most entertaining of the whole thing. Will let you know how things turn out, thanks again.
Good comparison… don’t know if the pioneer can adjust the tone arm height or not. That adjustment is the only Archilles’ heel I found on Fluance. The RCA silver plated cable used and the length and coiling in the Fluance may have contributed to a slight difference in tonal quality. The Fluance stock RCA and ground cable is also audiophile grade. Both sounded good in my opinion. Maybe preference come in play in this instance. Fluance did a good job bringing the old magic back.
Thanks for the insightful comment. The Pioneer does not have a height adjustable tonearm either. Being that this was one of my earlier videos... it is also not of the best quality in audio recording.
Pioneer seems more musical to me than Fuance with overall tonal balance in micro-dynamics. But, Fluance can keep up with more precise temple of the song but some how feels less involved.
Great observation. The Fluance does bring a certain level of character to a very good modern turntable, but I find that it lacks that rich level of character that is often found in vintage turntables.
Hey, thanks for the comment. Definitely check the other vids I have on other vintage turntables as well. The dust brush was purchased off of Amazon. I see if I can find you the link... Found it. I'm not affiliated, so no kick-backs come my way. Just trying to be helpful to the audio community: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FFCGVCS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
@@tachikaze7 Thanks so much for the reply and link. I just got back in to vinyl and bought an RT85 a few months ago. Can't believe I was missing out on such great sound for so long- not to mention collecting/hunting down records is so addicting! Thanks again
Listening through my desktop speakers I cannot tell much difference. I would not have picked one over the other. However, through my headphones the RT85 is the clear winner. The RT85 has more details, longer sustains, tighter bass, less splashy cymbals, and a quieter background. The PL-115D is not bad. Between the 2, the RT85 is a better choice for audiophile.
I'd say that this is an accurate observation. Typically, those who are drawn to the sound characteristics of vintage turntables and/or amps are pleased by the "warmer" profile these particular pieces produce. I could not debate on what one is audiophile over the other - as this is (for the most part) very subjective - but it might be like talking with a person who only prefers music delivered through hi-res lossless digital, claiming that format is audiophile. Whereas the vinyl listener might hear that format and cringe, stating digital is too clinical and tight. Totally subjective. However, I value your insights. Thanks for commenting. Peace!
I won't get into the modern vs. vintage debate, but unless you have got the technical skill to service it, or a shop that services electric components, I believe you are up the creek without a paddle. I live in a moderate size city, and the one electronics shop that does repairs closed three years ago.
There is a a lot of merit in the point you make. It has been appearing to be more and more evident that the audio equipment tech is a dying breed - sadly. Those of us who persist in wanting to acquire these older audio pieces are, pretty much as you have stated, stuck with having to learn how to manage any needed repairs all on our own. Fortunately, for those willing to learn, there are still that wisened lot of people who frequent forums and seem very open to the idea of sharing the know-how they have obtained over the years. Otherwise, you can only look skyward to the vintage audio gods and pray. However, on that note - there is a level of mystique that resides in powering on your older turntable and wondering - for that split second - if it is still going to play today. And when it does, there's an invigorating sensation from the moment. Still, the fear that today may be the last day it works is also at times paralyzing. Thanks for the comment.
@@jonhoskins3795 So long as the manufacturer is solid and honors a warranty claim. IN this case, Fluance seems to be in the "solid" category. Either way, you do make a sound point. Thanks for the comment.
@@brucesnyder9209 It took some patience, but I masked it all off and used a high gloss "piano" white spray paint. Gave it a modern twist, to a great vintage piece.So yeah... I guess it's one of a kind.
The RT85 does have a Blue. But for the purpose of this comparison (more in the Description) I wanted to keep things as equal as possible. So they are both using the same cart/stylus.
Does anyone knows how this fluance turnyable compares to a DJ one such as the Reloop RP7000 MK2 or the Technics 1200 MK2 in terms of sound quality? I'm thinking of buying one of those for their build quality but my priority is the sound quality. Thanks in advance!
I cannot comment on the two DJ turntables you are referencing, but I have a Audio Technica LP120 (which is NOT the same as the Technics... but some what similar in appearance) and the Fluance sounds better. Very different turntables, though. I do not think that the Fluance would be a suitable DJ 'table. You would want something more robust and with much more solid feet. Peace.
Thanks for the video. I also have a Pioneer PL-115D that I picked up at a thrift store a few years ago for $15. After my restoration it looks and sounds great. Here is a link to the two videos on the Pioneer. th-cam.com/video/shbIBOHP91Y/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/k5K8bABnjy8/w-d-xo.html I have two cartridge/headshell combinations for the turntable. The original Pickering with a new stylus and a Ortofon 2M Red. Both sound good but different. I don't think I could tell the difference between two good turntables with the same cartridge.
Thanks for the comment. Pioneer really did make some great turntables. I have several I'm restoring at the moment and they all produce some very good sound. I will go give your video a watch. Thanks!
Being that this was one of my earlier videos on this subject matter, I did not fully delve into the details that many would (now) find useful. That said, unfortunately I no longer have the Pioneer and could not conduct the necessary speed test to insure that both 'tables were running at the same speed. I do appreciate your question and observation. Thanks!
@@Jammerk40 Thanks for the comment. If I do another comparison with the Fluance, I will be sure to use the Whirlometer app to check speed prior to recording and include that in the video. Nice purchase, btw. Hope you enjoy. Peace!
Having heard them in "real time", I would have to agree with you. The Pioneer does impart a level of warmth. Or, coloration. Depending on a person's preference, this could be a good or bad thing. For me, I happen to like the warmer, vintage tint that the 'table gives.
@@tachikaze7 Is it fair really? The carts are different. It's like bringing a gun to a knife fight. Now if the carts where the same -- now we have a duel.
Hi Marc I'm with you I prefer vintage I was offered a deal of trade in my Rega Planar 3 against a new Project turntable I decided to get my Rega serviced by a ex rega engineer and man am I glad I did. My deck was made in 1981.
Fluance: Overall it's an okay turntable, but that's probably as far as I would go with it. The visual aesthetic proves more impressive than actually using it. The entire tonearm mechanism feels super cheap. The tonearm lever, stand and safety latch actually feels like something you'd find on a cheapo plastic portable record player like a Crosley. Maybe I got a bad one, but that's my honest opinion. There's a lot of slack in the lever, it bounces the arm if you lift it too quickly and the tonearm safety latch feels like its going to break off every time I use it. The counter weight is to dark to see the numbers to set the tonearm. when I called customer service they were no help at all. They referred me to a video that did not help at all. Customer service has no technical skills when it comes to Fluance products and that’s a fact. The tonearm is cheap plastic garbage. The lock for the tonearm leaves a mark that’s how cheap it is. When purchasing a turntable at this price point something has to give and in this case it’s the tone arm. After speaking with customer service it seems that they know nothing about the Fluance product. They sent a generic video that was no help at all. After that I put the Fluance Turntable in the trash and upgraded to a Technics 1500C.
All very insightful and I can agree that the Fluance tonearm does lack a certain sense of heft, or substance, to it. I honestly have not spun a record on it in probably a year or more. It sits in a room, looks slick and collects the occasional dust layer I hate to clean up. In the end, I just reported to building my own turntable that I love more than any other 'table I have in my collection. Thanks for the feedback and for sharing. Peace.
Hi. I think you are asking what the weight is..? It is not a clamp. It's just a weight to help reduce vibrations in the record and keep it stable with the platter, because some records can slip and that affects the speed/sound. I found it on Amazon (425g High Quality Aluminum).
@@tachikaze7 can you give me a link, plz? ok, YT doesn't like links, so you can write, for example, www . amazon . com / gp / uieffguigsjuidwuidu It's a lot of time that i'm looking for a cute weight (btw they are called clamper too, don't ask me why. i understand stabilizer but not clamper :D). Thanks mate :)
@@tachikaze7 You nailed it! I have a tendency to hate Klipsch and similar bright speakers B&W probably the only exception. I just got a Sansui receiver and I'm overwhelmed by the warmth can't wait to pair it with the Denon DP1200 turntable.
Had a 441 and the top dog - 881 - in my collection for a short time. As vintage receivers go, they do seem to have a "signature" sound to them (Pioneer, warm. Yamaha, clean and almost clinical. Kenwood and Sony, a nice mix of both warm and clean). The Sansui sound is warm to me, but rich. They have a depth that, understandably, ranks them as one of the best @@sheri1983
@@tachikaze7 correct me if I am wrong, "Audio was recorded at the same levels using an external PCM recorder ." If this is true, the Klipsch speaker has no "voice" in this comparison.
@@toanduong The room this recording was done in is absolutely NOT ideal of recording like that - meaning, in the open air, capturing the audio directly from the speakers. I have tired, and it sounds horrific. Here is the quote from the description: "Audio was recorded at the same levels using an external PCM recorder plugged directly into a Yamaha CR-420." The PCM recorder was connected into the amp's headphone jack. So you are correct, in this manner, the Klipsch is not present... because it is not being recorded. I think the other person who commented was just making a statement about their opinion on Klipsch in general. Not so much about believing that the speakers were actually be recorded.
I problems with these type of videos over 90 odd percent of your sound that you’re going to get from. Your turntable will come from the stylus/cartridge turntable pretty much has one job to spin the platter at the correct speed with no interference are vibrations or sound whilst doing so, and once you eliminate the really crappy entry level, rubbish turntables you sorted. I know the audio file snobs will not agree with that philosophy, but I look at it this way once you’ve got yourself a really great quality cartridge and a great quality stylus and a turntable which works perfectly regardless of its age, vintage or new year, you’ve got a great music coming from your records anything on top of that is fashion jewellery and basically a muscle flex which we all know they like to do and you don’t really have to spend a lot of money to get a turntable which will spin a record at the correct speed with no noise or interference or vibration
That was...interesting. I tried a double blind three times and all three picked the Pioneer as better.
Weird.
However - I just don't for one moment believe the cables make the difference 'audiophiles' think they do.
Compliance of the stylus, neutrality of the cartridge, the ability of the tonearm to be transparent, absolutely stable speed, those matter.
Those are all good and valid points.
As long as you don't go really cheap on the cables. I spend about £30 on each of mine. No way I'd go up to £200 each! Gotta have decent speaker cable too. Can't believe some still use thin bell wire...!
It's the cartridge
I have an vintage Pioneer PL-117d fitted with an Audio Technica AT-VM95EN/H , Goldring E3 and Nagaoka MP110 and love it to death I've been thinking about a table upgrade lately to a Fluance RT85 and after hearing some comparisons like this decided that I will stick with my Pioneer PL-117D - thanks!
Those are some nice carts. I have the Nagaoka on a Pioneer PL-12D with a Sony tonearm (in my other videos, under "Frankenstein" if you're interested in hearing it).
The Fluance - as I have stated before - is a nice turntable. For some, it's a worthy investment at the $500 price point to listen to vinyl. Not everyone is fortunate to have or find a good condition vintage 'table. It's awesome that you have one. They are getting cheaper... that's for sure. LOL
Glad this video offered some value to you. Peace
@@tachikaze7 I considered the Fluance RT83, actually pulled the trigger then cancelled the purchase because of how long it would take the vendor to ship it and then how long it would take to arrive. Availability here in Australia is always a challenge. In the end I bought the Denon DP400 in piano black even though I hate the stupid dust cover and honestly I can't tell the different. I probably prefer my vintage Pioneer deck.
That Pioneer sounds like it’s got more bounce to the music, I’d listen to that all day long.
A turntables job is a relatively easy one, spins the record while maintaining constant speed which is flutter in the wake of heavily recorded passages and also have low wow and rumble. And if it does that it pretty much stays out of the picture sort of speak and let’s the cartridge and tonearm do it’s job. So basically with that said, and if the turntable does all the things I mentioned correctly you then actually hear only the differences in the types of cartridges.
The Pioneer rules, and this love affair with fluance turntable boggles my mind😧😀
@@frederickfranchi6408 They are good value for the price. I plan on buying a fluance.
@@CBT5777 I wouldn't but it's up to you. I prefer project, Riga and U turn to my ear all sound better but once again it's your money!!!! good luck✌
@@frederickfranchi6408 Ok, I'll check it out. Thanks
Got a 85 but had defect with platter grinding so return. Pulled out my old Pioneer 518 & hooked up . Played just like it was 1978 again.
They built them to last... 👍
Just picked up a Pioneer PL-115D great table. What model Klipsch speakers are you using in the video?
Thanks for the comment. Provided the Auto functions are in good working order, this turntable can easily rival many modern 'tables on the market. Pretty much all of the PL line from the 70's sound really awesome. The Klipsch speakers in this video are the RB-51 model (I believe...)
Im picking up a fully restored and in excellent condition pl115d today. That vintage look and sound just does it for me
Nice. It won't disappoint!
@tachikaze7 I got it home and connected it and it plays beautifully. It's in showroom condition both in terms of esthetics and function. I have my ortofon 2m blue cartridge mounted on it.
I just resurrected my 80s era MCS turntable with a new belt ($5.99) before I thought I'd be throwing it in the trash. Fired up the ancient Sherwood amp, pulled out some vinyl for the first time in years and everything not only worked but sounded good. Heck, it's still the original stylus and cartridge from the 80s. Then I hooked up a little tube preamp & cables I had ordered and put on the new Tears for Fears album and was just transfixed with analog sound after years of MP3s. When I had thought I'd need a new turntable and I started looking at what I'd probably want to buy in 2022, it didn't take long to get well into the $500+ range. Better turntables in 2022 by specs but not nearly as much as I had expected, and I certainly didn't have the money back in the 80s to buy a high-end turntable. So, if you don't need Bluetooth connectivity or some of those contemporary bells & whistles in your turntable, I now see why a lot of people are apparently looking for older audio equipment. I saw a version of my turntable on sale online for more than I originally paid for mine! So, be bold and go old.
Awesome! Love the tag line - "Be bold and go old!" Like most things, there are merits to both sides of the equation. In the end, it comes down to the listen, their needs and how it all SOUNDS to them.
The Pioneer is still the best.
Pioneer, hands down. So much more richness.
Thanks for the comment! Peace
While the 85 has more high end sparkle, I think I like the 115d. It's rendering of the piano peaks seems more controlled.
Good observation. Thanks for the comment. Peace.
Bill Evans is pretty chill to listen to
Indeed...
Interesting comparison, and they sound close enough to my ears not to have a favourite
It is really difficult to tell when listening to this one. Especially without headphones. Thanks for the comment. Peace.
Way more separation of the bass and piano with the fluance., what cartridges are we running.?
Thanks for the comment. The cart is the AT-VM95ML. I have some more info on it and why I used it in the description - if you are interested.
Now this is a cool comparison - I love vintage turntables and prefer those with S Shaped tonearms - I love being able to swap carts and stylus combo's simply by removing the headshell - I have the Pioneer PL-117D with a Audio Technica VM530EN and have been curious about this new Fluance RT85 which seems impossible to find here in Australia. I'm also curious to hear a Fluance RT85 without the Ortofon rig and replaced with a good AT rig instead...
For me, the Ortofon on the RT-85 is good, but seems to favor the high frequencies a little too much. I have found that the Nagaoka MP-110 is a very nice compliment to the Fluance for many genres.
The capacitance and resistance may be an issue with long cables, even with the best. I keep mine under 1 meter length. Moving coil carts are most sensitive to this since the signal is very weak. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for sharing as well... That is very useful information.
I thought the Fluance sounded brighter and more "percussive." On another subject, what is the red thingy in the middle of the record?
Thanks for the comment. The red thing is a weight. It aids in reducing vibrations while the record is playing. Peace!
I just did a similar test with a Pioneer I got for free yesterday. It is in superb condition but the motor obviously hadn’t been lubricated because that’s all I had to do to get it to work. I also cleaned and lubricayed the spindle/port. I recently bought the fluance rt with an upgraded cartridge, a plexi platter and a record weight for $275 and thought it was a good deal but damn why do I like the sound of the Pioneer better?
LOL! That is the million dollar question... isn't it. The Fluance is a great table - clean, accurate, stable. But sometimes there's a "romance" that resides in things that are from yesteryear, with all of their flaws and quirks. Like a 911 (997) vs a 911 (964). Sometimes, the beauty is strictly in the perception.
Happy to hear you found one of these! And FREE! Peace.
Pioneer had warmer tones, and a slightly higher low frequency volume. Fluance may have been more balanced, but not my tatstes with that cartridge. Id put a Grado in myself, to get a similar sound. Nice video, and Sound quality.
Thanks for the comment. I have just come into the possession of a F1+ MI cart. It has a sound signature that to me is very reminiscent of the Pickering MI's I have. It would be nice to make a video sometime in the future with that Grado and see how well it mates with the vintage 'tables I have.
Got a planner 2 but my 1978 direct drive pioneer pl 518 blows it out of the water in all dept. I don’t think my rega will hold up 45 years that’s for sure. Late 70s to early 80s Was turntable value and build quality peak especially Japanese made decks.
Could not agree more. Sure, there is a certain "mystique" revolving around the vintage revival. But there is so much more to the quality and pride that went into those pieces that just cannot exist in a "throw-away" culture that permeates the market today. The PL 518 is a great 'table - solid, heavy, reliable. Thanks for the comment! Peace.
I have a PL 115 and a RT 83,,, I like the Pioneer better but it needs restoring, it's had A LOT of records played on it through the years, just wanna say that yours looks beautiful and yes I thought the Pioneer sounded better
Thanks for the comment.
Good video and quite a surprise. I'm looking to re-enter vinyl world after many decades off. Sure I love vintage (who doesn't?), but I wouldn't like the maintenance and repair hassles implicit in an older machine (any older machine for that matter). So I'm inclined to buy new and had looked at the Fluance - the RT82 fits my budget. BUT . . . this Pioneer sounded better to me. Can I really determine sound quality coming through my budget TH-cam internet speakers? Nevertheless, the Pioneer sounds crisper and cleaner to these old ears . . .
It is really hard to say how much the video I made sounds to the "end ear"... I mean, it has gone from my system, filtered in through (who knows what YT does) and then that final filter of your listening set up. BUT, what can be deduced from all that is that whatever short-comings all of that transmission to your ears ends up being, it is being applied to both turntables, and therefore if one sounds better to you than the other... well.
Up-keep on vintage is real. It may be a very simple table that has very little mechanics involved, or a full auto, "do it all for you" type. In some way, they all need some attention. Some less than others. Of course, its kind of like saying that a Porsche 964 needs more work... than a 2022 Miata. Would the Miata even make it to 40+ years old...?
Fluance RT is good. Not the best sounding to me. But I do not think it would last 40 years.
@@tachikaze7 Alright, you sound very knowledgeable, please forgive me for opening a can of worms . . . if you were me, can I ask which new and vintage turntables you would buy with a budget of $350? Just a few names would be fine - thanks!
@@fredberger3155 LOL! You’re genuine curiosity is far from a can of worms. You should read some of the other comments I sometimes get. People have some very entitled opinions, and have no issue with sharing them.
The Fluance is absolutely solid. So you cannot go wrong there. It doesn’t sound like you are convinced about that one, though. So, go back to my other comparison: if you have the unique opportunity to actually own a Porsche 964, you choose this over the Miata because it fulfills something that goes well beyond the way it sounds and drives - it offers nostalgia, history and quality (in most cases) that does seem to be long dismissed in this “throw-away” culture.
Sure, the 964 is expensive. So you absolutely want to buy it from a solid, reputable seller… because it needs to work.
In the end, you gotta ask yourself: Why even bother with vinyl? It’s pricey. Prone to damage. Questionable (at best) if it is “better” than digital. So yeah… why even mess with it? Apple Music offers TONS high res Lossless audio.
The ONLY reason anyone would want to delve into vinyl today is because they are searching for something else… something beyond what some would call sterile, lifeless digital music.
Answer to your actual question: Sansui SR-222, or SR-525. Pioneer PL-12D, PL-518, or PL-115. He’ll, you could even go with an AudioTechnica LP-120 and (now this is probably a can of worms…) be doing much better than the Fluance. At least you can adjust the height of that tonearm.
I’ve owned and sold every one of those turntables mentioned. So, I am speaking from actual experience. Personally, I love Sansui… so, I’d go with that SR-222. And no, just in case you thought this was a pitch, I’m not selling one at this time. 😂 I’m just about trying to help people who seem like they are serious about wanting help.
Look on Reverb if vintage is sounding interesting to you. Good, solid sellers there.
@@tachikaze7 What a fantastic response! Thanks for taking your time to enlighten me, I really wasn't expecting that effort. Can't repay you, but I have subscribed. For my readings, most people like vintage Technicas, which are therefore very pricey; I'm happy to add Sansui and Pioneer to my search list. Not in a big rush to buy, because I sometimes find the search the most entertaining of the whole thing. Will let you know how things turn out, thanks again.
The Fluance was more detailed, but at the expense of excess brightness. The Pioneer had a more natural and musical tonal balance to my ear.
My thoughts exactly.
Good comparison… don’t know if the pioneer can adjust the tone arm height or not. That adjustment is the only Archilles’ heel I found on Fluance. The RCA silver plated cable used and the length and coiling in the Fluance may have contributed to a slight difference in tonal quality. The Fluance stock RCA and ground cable is also audiophile grade. Both sounded good in my opinion. Maybe preference come in play in this instance. Fluance did a good job bringing the old magic back.
Thanks for the insightful comment. The Pioneer does not have a height adjustable tonearm either. Being that this was one of my earlier videos... it is also not of the best quality in audio recording.
Pioneer seems more musical to me than Fuance with overall tonal balance in micro-dynamics. But, Fluance can keep up with more precise temple of the song but some how feels less involved.
Great observation. The Fluance does bring a certain level of character to a very good modern turntable, but I find that it lacks that rich level of character that is often found in vintage turntables.
What did you use to cover that light colored section of the top of that Pioneer? That looks the business.Did you paint it or what?
Yes. I used a piano white high gloss paint. Thanks!
@@tachikaze7 i came for this answer.. thank you, its simply gorgeous and very unusual, top shelf upgrade!
@@GreatBowlsAfire Thank you!
Love this video! Just curious where'd you get that brush that's mounted on the FLuance table? Thanks for the video
Hey, thanks for the comment. Definitely check the other vids I have on other vintage turntables as well. The dust brush was purchased off of Amazon. I see if I can find you the link... Found it. I'm not affiliated, so no kick-backs come my way. Just trying to be helpful to the audio community: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FFCGVCS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
@@tachikaze7 Thanks so much for the reply and link. I just got back in to vinyl and bought an RT85 a few months ago. Can't believe I was missing out on such great sound for so long- not to mention collecting/hunting down records is so addicting! Thanks again
Listening through my desktop speakers I cannot tell much difference. I would not have picked one over the other. However, through my headphones the RT85 is the clear winner. The RT85 has more details, longer sustains, tighter bass, less splashy cymbals, and a quieter background. The PL-115D is not bad. Between the 2, the RT85 is a better choice for audiophile.
I'd say that this is an accurate observation. Typically, those who are drawn to the sound characteristics of vintage turntables and/or amps are pleased by the "warmer" profile these particular pieces produce. I could not debate on what one is audiophile over the other - as this is (for the most part) very subjective - but it might be like talking with a person who only prefers music delivered through hi-res lossless digital, claiming that format is audiophile. Whereas the vinyl listener might hear that format and cringe, stating digital is too clinical and tight. Totally subjective. However, I value your insights. Thanks for commenting. Peace!
I won't get into the modern vs. vintage debate, but unless you have got the technical skill to service it, or a shop that services electric components, I believe you are up the creek without a paddle. I live in a moderate size city, and the one electronics shop that does repairs closed three years ago.
There is a a lot of merit in the point you make. It has been appearing to be more and more evident that the audio equipment tech is a dying breed - sadly. Those of us who persist in wanting to acquire these older audio pieces are, pretty much as you have stated, stuck with having to learn how to manage any needed repairs all on our own. Fortunately, for those willing to learn, there are still that wisened lot of people who frequent forums and seem very open to the idea of sharing the know-how they have obtained over the years. Otherwise, you can only look skyward to the vintage audio gods and pray.
However, on that note - there is a level of mystique that resides in powering on your older turntable and wondering - for that split second - if it is still going to play today. And when it does, there's an invigorating sensation from the moment. Still, the fear that today may be the last day it works is also at times paralyzing.
Thanks for the comment.
@@tachikaze7 Exactly right! I'll take the RT85 over any vintage turntable, just because it still has a warranty.
@@jonhoskins3795 So long as the manufacturer is solid and honors a warranty claim. IN this case, Fluance seems to be in the "solid" category. Either way, you do make a sound point. Thanks for the comment.
true but on the other hand, if it survived 40 years in good working order, odds are pretty good it will make it a few more.
The white is a gorgeous addition to that turntable
Thanks! I think it really gives it a modern flair and clean aesthetic over the original gray.
@@tachikaze7 I'm wondering how or where you got the white surface? I've always liked the PL-115D's looks, but I love it in white.
@@brucesnyder9209 It took some patience, but I masked it all off and used a high gloss "piano" white spray paint. Gave it a modern twist, to a great vintage piece.So yeah... I guess it's one of a kind.
@@tachikaze7 Well done! It looks very professional.
@@brucesnyder9209 Thank you, sir
Why does it look like you have an Ortofon Red and not the stock Blue on the RT85? My Blue sounds a lot more like that Pioneer.
The RT85 does have a Blue. But for the purpose of this comparison (more in the Description) I wanted to keep things as equal as possible. So they are both using the same cart/stylus.
@@tachikaze7 none sense
Can u play any song on that record player?
Any song that is on vinyl.
I have a pioneer pl-41dc I love it but the pioneer pl-115 you have sounds better then that other turntable
i am the owner of a rt85 but i prefer the pioneer here
Sound is so subjective. But I have found that I personally like the warmer sound of these older vintage audio pieces.
Does anyone knows how this fluance turnyable compares to a DJ one such as the Reloop RP7000 MK2 or the Technics 1200 MK2 in terms of sound quality? I'm thinking of buying one of those for their build quality but my priority is the sound quality. Thanks in advance!
I cannot comment on the two DJ turntables you are referencing, but I have a Audio Technica LP120 (which is NOT the same as the Technics... but some what similar in appearance) and the Fluance sounds better. Very different turntables, though.
I do not think that the Fluance would be a suitable DJ 'table. You would want something more robust and with much more solid feet. Peace.
Late to the party but check out technics sl-1500c
It has been restored.
Yes. And updated, if you will... with the piano white paint.
Yes.
Thanks for the video. I also have a Pioneer PL-115D that I picked up at a thrift store a few years ago for $15. After my restoration it looks and sounds great. Here is a link to the two videos on the Pioneer. th-cam.com/video/shbIBOHP91Y/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/k5K8bABnjy8/w-d-xo.html
I have two cartridge/headshell combinations for the turntable. The original Pickering with a new stylus and a Ortofon 2M Red. Both sound good but different. I don't think I could tell the difference between two good turntables with the same cartridge.
Thanks for the comment. Pioneer really did make some great turntables. I have several I'm restoring at the moment and they all produce some very good sound. I will go give your video a watch. Thanks!
The Fluance is playing much slower than the Pioneer. Which one is playing the right speed?
Being that this was one of my earlier videos on this subject matter, I did not fully delve into the details that many would (now) find useful. That said, unfortunately I no longer have the Pioneer and could not conduct the necessary speed test to insure that both 'tables were running at the same speed. I do appreciate your question and observation. Thanks!
I just bought the Fluance RT82 and it's dead on speed so I don't think the speed was off on it!
@@Jammerk40 Thanks for the comment. If I do another comparison with the Fluance, I will be sure to use the Whirlometer app to check speed prior to recording and include that in the video. Nice purchase, btw. Hope you enjoy. Peace!
If the speed is off the belt is usually the issue and having the correct one is a must otherwise wow& flutter will be very noticeable
I own the fluance, but Pioneer hands down!
Me too and me too lol. The Fluance sounds treble-heavy to me by comparison. There is something missing from its low end that the Pioneer has.
The question was back to front 😬 can a modern turntable sound as good as a vintage ......... to my ears the rt sounded flat .
Having heard them in "real time", I would have to agree with you. The Pioneer does impart a level of warmth. Or, coloration. Depending on a person's preference, this could be a good or bad thing. For me, I happen to like the warmer, vintage tint that the 'table gives.
@@tachikaze7 Is it fair really? The carts are different. It's like bringing a gun to a knife fight. Now if the carts where the same -- now we have a duel.
@@EricKrieger Actually, both carts are the same -
Hi Marc I'm with you I prefer vintage I was offered a deal of trade in my Rega Planar 3 against a new Project turntable I decided to get my Rega serviced by a ex rega engineer and man am I glad I did. My deck was made in 1981.
Fluance: Overall it's an okay turntable, but that's probably as far as I would go with it. The visual aesthetic proves more impressive than actually using it.
The entire tonearm mechanism feels super cheap. The tonearm lever, stand and safety latch actually feels like something you'd find on a cheapo plastic portable record player like a Crosley. Maybe I got a bad one, but that's my honest opinion. There's a lot of slack in the lever, it bounces the arm if you lift it too quickly and the tonearm safety latch feels like its going to break off every time I use it. The counter weight is to dark to see the numbers to set the tonearm. when I called customer service they were no help at all. They referred me to a video that did not help at all. Customer service has no technical skills when it comes to Fluance products and that’s a fact. The tonearm is cheap plastic garbage. The lock for the tonearm leaves a mark that’s how cheap it is. When purchasing a turntable at this price point something has to give and in this case it’s the tone arm. After speaking with customer service it seems that they know nothing about the Fluance product. They sent a generic video that was no help at all. After that I put the Fluance Turntable in the trash and upgraded to a Technics 1500C.
All very insightful and I can agree that the Fluance tonearm does lack a certain sense of heft, or substance, to it. I honestly have not spun a record on it in probably a year or more. It sits in a room, looks slick and collects the occasional dust layer I hate to clean up.
In the end, I just reported to building my own turntable that I love more than any other 'table I have in my collection.
Thanks for the feedback and for sharing. Peace.
which is that clamper? Name and model, plz :) (Pioneer PL 112D here)
Hi. I think you are asking what the weight is..? It is not a clamp. It's just a weight to help reduce vibrations in the record and keep it stable with the platter, because some records can slip and that affects the speed/sound. I found it on Amazon (425g High Quality Aluminum).
@@tachikaze7 can you give me a link, plz? ok, YT doesn't like links, so you can write, for example, www . amazon . com / gp / uieffguigsjuidwuidu
It's a lot of time that i'm looking for a cute weight (btw they are called clamper too, don't ask me why. i understand stabilizer but not clamper :D). Thanks mate :)
@@uncletoma www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FVLZ55C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
@@tachikaze7 many thanks
I thought the 85 came with the 2M Blue?
That is correct, it does. I prefer the sound of the AT micro line... But the 2M Blue is also very good.
What album?
Nvm I should have waited till the end to comment lol
Music: Bill Evan - Conception
@@tachikaze7 currently on the hunt for it thanks
Pioneer for me, Fluance is so piercing to my ears. I'm not a fan of Klipsch speakers though but Pioneer calm down those high notes.
The Klipsch horns can be rough. Definitely contributes to listening fatigue. Have to agree... the vintage warmth does a lot to mellow the tone.
@@tachikaze7 You nailed it! I have a tendency to hate Klipsch and similar bright speakers B&W probably the only exception. I just got a Sansui receiver and I'm overwhelmed by the warmth can't wait to pair it with the Denon DP1200 turntable.
Had a 441 and the top dog - 881 - in my collection for a short time. As vintage receivers go, they do seem to have a "signature" sound to them (Pioneer, warm. Yamaha, clean and almost clinical. Kenwood and Sony, a nice mix of both warm and clean). The Sansui sound is warm to me, but rich. They have a depth that, understandably, ranks them as one of the best @@sheri1983
@@tachikaze7 correct me if I am wrong, "Audio was recorded at the same levels using an external PCM recorder ." If this is true, the Klipsch speaker has no "voice" in this comparison.
@@toanduong The room this recording was done in is absolutely NOT ideal of recording like that - meaning, in the open air, capturing the audio directly from the speakers. I have tired, and it sounds horrific. Here is the quote from the description: "Audio was recorded at the same levels using an external PCM recorder plugged directly into a Yamaha CR-420."
The PCM recorder was connected into the amp's headphone jack. So you are correct, in this manner, the Klipsch is not present... because it is not being recorded. I think the other person who commented was just making a statement about their opinion on Klipsch in general. Not so much about believing that the speakers were actually be recorded.
I problems with these type of videos over 90 odd percent of your sound that you’re going to get from. Your turntable will come from the stylus/cartridge turntable pretty much has one job to spin the platter at the correct speed with no interference are vibrations or sound whilst doing so, and once you eliminate the really crappy entry level, rubbish turntables you sorted. I know the audio file snobs will not agree with that philosophy, but I look at it this way once you’ve got yourself a really great quality cartridge and a great quality stylus and a turntable which works perfectly regardless of its age, vintage or new year, you’ve got a great music coming from your records anything on top of that is fashion jewellery and basically a muscle flex which we all know they like to do and you don’t really have to spend a lot of money to get a turntable which will spin a record at the correct speed with no noise or interference or vibration
Thanks for the comment and insight. Nice cat, btw
What kind of Klipsch speakers are those?
RB-51 II. They are a part of their Reference series.
@@tachikaze7 Thank you. I think that I might get a pair of those.
@@voivodOfficial I see them sometimes on eBay. Peace.
Not so bad)
Fluance RT85 better
Both average