ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2022
- Greninja's a character whom you think has everything necessary to be very popular: high damage, fast frame data, amazing mobility, good recovery, tons of flashy combos and a solid neutral game. Yet inexplicably, people don't seem to want to use him all too much. Today we're gonna investigate Why NO ONE Plays: Greninja.
Smash Ultimate Why NO ONE Plays Playlist: bit.ly/3w6zES0
Smash Ultimate Why EVERYONE Plays Playlist: bit.ly/3O9tEyI
Check out my Main channel! bit.ly/3DQbIoJ
Check out my Genshin Impact channel! bit.ly/3HQN9ud
Support me on Patreon! bit.ly/3iy5pvu
Donate to the channel! bit.ly/36TpIQP
~Editor (Chains)~
Twitter: / codychains
~Contact Links~
Twitter: bit.ly/3kv7CZU
Discord: bit.ly/33M2iev
Twitch: bit.ly/2XNes31
Candle.gg: bit.ly/3ndfU9r
Email: varsverum@gmail.com (Business inquiries only)
Graphics provided by: / tofugraphics
#SSBU #WhyNoOnePlays #Greninja - เกม
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 68 | คู่เอก "พระจันทร์ฉาย vs โจนาธาน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/F3IM3w-XchI/mqdefault.jpg)
Greninja main here. His main problem is his lack of out of shield options, followed by how different he feels to other characters.
So, what the video said.
@@torappuda the comment was made before the video was released, they werent copying off the video they were just giving their thoughts before the premiere
@@rennh4061 They were right on the money then.
Not just that (not a Greninja main) but also up smash not always being consistent having ppl fall out of it
@@jms214az Oh upsmash...
as a Greninja player, my friends usually tell me things like ''I dont understand how u make him work, he feels weird when I play him'' or '' when I fight your greninja, I dont feel like im fighting a weird character''. I thinks this sums-up greninja pretty well: very awkward character to pilot, but expresses basic smash neutral concepts like footsies or landing aerials which is why hes underplayed. When I was a beginner, it was legitmitaly hard for me to try other characters because no other character feels like him in terms of movement/moves used for certain situations.
I just chose him because I play Pokémon and he is quite good.
He really shines when it comes to drag downs.
Very interesting take of you, breakfast
As someone who's mained Greninja since Smash 4, it's a mix between his terrible out-of-shield game and the fact that he has such a big learning curve to properly use him. It takes a lot of work to be even somewhat DECENT with this character. You have to really sit down in the lab and grind out so much with him. But once you get the feel for him, you feel damn near unbeatable!!
excuse for the question but what is the out-of-shield game?
@@andreacarpegna7164 when you are shielding and release it, you are stuck in lag for 11 frames where you are vulnerable. Certain actions can bypass this lag. Those actions are jump, up smash, shield grab and up b and are known as out-of-shield options (or oos as a shortener) and are used to escape shield pressure
The problem with Greninja is that his oos game is really, really bad due to not having a reliable option oos. His fastest oos is back air but since greninja's shorthop sends him too high it will whiff most of the time, and up air just attack above him. His up smash is frame 12, which is not bad at all but thats just the upper hitbox, the side hitboxes doesn't come out until frame 18. Lastly grabs have +4 additional frames of lag when shielding. That means greninja's shieldgrab is frame 14. You are not gonna punish anything with that.
All of the above means that greninja will have a really hard time escaping shield pressure.
Although that doesn't mean you are fucked up by just pressing shield. You can just spotdodge or roll and run away to reset neutral or try to parry the attack (Greninja is very good for parries for some reason)
That are you only reliable options when you have a mediocre or bad oos (I main Lucas and his oos game is just a bit better than greninja's, which is also bad so I know what im talking about)
Not that hard. Just the inverse of not smash characters
i main him too. eventually ppl start predicting you moves because his good ariels come out too slow
if you mean predicting as in parrying, a little trick can be empty landing into down tilt. works much better than you would think
Greninja may have kinda slow Ariel’s, but if you are always getting predicted that is probably cause ur doing smth wrong.
Yeah try to mix up timings
You can use different timings with fair, nair and even bair so parrying is harder. You can also use double jump and even sheriken to stall and another great option is down air. In terms of being grounded if your dash attack is being predicted, you might wanna mix it up with run up f tilt, run up jab, run up d tilt instead since these things r mix ups.
@@Goldbug28yeah he has plenty of tools to mix things up. His grab game isn't good, but he doesn't need it because he can pressure shields really well and really punish a lot of out of shield options over and over. I think that's like the best thing about him.
I remember when Leo trained with him for like 2-3 months, and came up with an absurd, untouchable ninja. I feel like once you get muscle memory on the setups, and know how to flow the combo game, you can focus on the ninja, evasive part. I never actually sat down to test it, but I feel pretty tempted
Leo still plays him for fun, he used him at a mexican regional a few months ago
Greninja main here. I've mained this character since the release of Smash for Wii U. Greninja is mixed bag, because he has the highest short hop in the game, and since he jumps so high, he wasn't intended to have rising aerials. Movement is Greninja's biggest attribute, because he's top 10 in every category, jump height, air speed, air acceleration, fall speed, fast fall speed, et cetera. Since he focuses on speed, movement and positioning more than other top tiers, as opposed to having an out of shield game, people don't use him, because everyone is so focused on shielding and retaliation out of shield. That's what makes him "weird" or harder to play than other top tiers, that and he's not a pick-up and play character. You need to actually commit to playing and mastering Gren in order to be solid.
A couple of things to note:
Oos options are definitely a big weakness, but it’s not his only weakness, and it can be made less of an issue by playing with more focus on movement, in general (Venia is a great example)
Arguably a larger weakness, and one of the reasons I have such a love-hate relationship with my main, is how inconsistent a lot of his moves and especially his kill options are. USmash will often whiff or send in a random direction and can be teched out of on a platform. DTilt into USmash is VERY precise, and only works for a small percent window, not to mention the already stated inconsistency with USmash. He can’t do a lot at ledge without running off, and his options off-stage are just as likely to get him killed, due to being in a bad position. We quite literally use the inconsistency in his UAir to get drag down combos, and that’s when we’re controlling it. NAir is difficult to place properly, FAir is also difficult, the list just goes on and on
Love the character, but the precision he requires makes me feel like I’m fighting with a scalpel while everyone else is using a sledgehammer
He's precise but his kill options can be pretty damn consistent. Down tilt and dash attack into full/short hop fair kills really consistently at a lot of percents. And his ability to whiff punish with F-smash should not be understated, that move is ridiculous. He can even confirm off of nair into kill options. He's precise, but he doesn't feel nearly as precise as Joker for example when all of his kill options come from confirms he usually gets from neutral/whiff punishing anyways. Meanwhile if you've ever fished for a fair 1 in neutral with Joker, you know how risky and frustrating that can be without a good read.
Is weak hit n-air into u-smash still a kill confirm at high percents? I remember it being a thing in Smash 4, it was difficult but very satisfying to pull off.
@@100organicfreshmemes5 It's still a thing, yes, but the window feels a lot tighter, this game. Airdodging and jumping are good enough in many cases to avoid it
@@100organicfreshmemes5 It's definitely doable, although at really high percents you'll wanna go for sour spot nair jump into fair.
Another issue for him is that in matchups against shorter characters, many of his options completely go away. The vid touched on it, but he has several mus (ness is the first that comes to mind) where you have to land fair so low while also max spacing it. He does very well in the mu with good player execution, and it’s not that hard getting low fairs once you know the timing, but having to execute really precisely in every single interaction on top of everything else that neutral demands can be really exhausting
I’ve played a lot of incredible Greninja players over the years, and I can confidently say this character is highly underrated.
Greninja is definitely one of my fav characters to play
In order to effectively play Greninja, you HAVE to onetrick him, getting comfortable with the smash concept of defense puts you at a major disadvantage, you HAVE to play by Greninja's concept of defense.
As somebody else in these comments stated, he's a strange character to use, but not a strange one to fight, just an intimidating one.
Greninja forces you to play a very different game than your opponent, but your opponent is in no way forced to play any differently than fighting high tiers with similar kits.
He's one of those characters where if you stuck someone in a hyperbolic time chamber for like 3 years they'd come back and be top 5 in the world.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head, his unconventional pressure and lack of defense really clicked. I like how you dive into how the mix of attributes influences how people feel while playing the game, it’s something tier lists can’t do justice to
I’d like to see one of these about Lucas. He is a fairly workable mid-to-high tier with a very versatile kit, but he gets almost no representation. He even gets forgotten when people make “forgotten characters” lists.
His PK freeze is insta death if he hits you with it
As a Lucas main I can probably tell you why no one plays him lol
Competitive wise, it’s literally just because ness’ aerials are objectively better than Lucas’s. Ness has much more fluid combo game than Lucas does, making him much easier to execute. His moves also are a good bit faster frame wise, and he has yo-yo for ledgeguarding, while Lucas has his also good but not quite there downsmash
He's too hard. Lucas combos are insane and so is his movement with zair but it takes near TAS level skill to consistently pull off all his broken tech
@@lordtt3984his "broken tech" is 30 percent cross stage combos. Good. But nothing broken.
when I started playing with my friends with 1 sideways Joy-con, the shield & grab buttons barely worked due to how the shoulder buttons work. This pretty much ingrained in me the habit of not shielding and using movement to avoid hits, which made Greninja perfect for me. I believe that if a really good player is able to use Greninja's defensive movement properly, the character can easily get consistent top placements
Thank you for this video! I never quite could put my finger on why, but I was always so exhausted playing him in a tournament setting just after a few rounds. I always thought it was me, so glad to hear I am not the only one
I already know this video is going to attract at least a few of my fellow greninja mains and thats good to see. Always glad to know I'm not the only one. I've been playing him since I started ultimate and couldn't agree more with the points you brought up. I still have quite the bad shielding habit that's set me squarely in bad situations too many times.
i didn't think this was an unpopular character
It’s not
I run into another Greninja as often as characters like Olimar. He's very uncommon.
i have three friends who main or have been a greninja main so i never though they would have been unpopular
Shoutouts to you for using Pokemon Conquest Music for the vid 🙏
Greninjas lack of oos also hurts him in other situations where it can be awkward to anti air at short hop height.
I also think his high jumps can be a huge weakness as it makes all his shield pressure is super reactable. Why try and oos a safe option when I can just preemptively up smash oos before the aerial comes out and catch him landing on me
Another Pokemon Conquest enjoyer I see
As a brawler player, would love to see videos for each of the miis. Most people would just group them up together, but they are all wildly different characters with different playstyles.
Brawler these days is easily considered the best of the 3 being high tier at worst (while ESAM thinks he's like top 15 for what that means to you) though was thought of as like bottom 5 before he got tons of buffs and top players like ESAM & Larry Lurr started picking him up, Gunner has consistently been upper mid tier but is generally just outclassed by Samus for the most part, while Swordfighter is pretty unanimously considered to be the worst and is definitely low tier if not bottom tier due to really only having 1 gameplan that people are alot better at dealing with now than when the game launched.
no one cares about the miis
@@apkhbmbgamlkbh1531 🤓
@@apkhbmbgamlkbh1531 Hold your tongue, blasphemer
My top main is Mii Gunner. 😆
Ninjas tend to avoid confrontation entirely. The typ eof ninja Greninja is named after is meant to be a pre-scout, causing chaos in the backline so the army can move in.
Greninja imo is underrated but your video sums it up perfectly, poor oos and learning curve make him where he is. But this character has one of the best advantage states and one of the best match up charts and is unflinching toward fighter pass 2, that’s a lot more than most of the top 5 can say.
As a beginner, Greninja feels really powerful
I main Banjo and I feel strong with him but Greninja feel like he can get SO much more value out of his entire kit.
And at lower ranks you can hard abuse his side special on unaware players and abuse his water shurikens as a disruption
I *finally* found my main, Mewtwo this year and had been looking for a good secondary to counter the weakness to swordies. I had somehow overlooked Greninja all this time, but I think I've found my answer, so thanks for the video. This series is fantastic!
great video this truly gave some reason to the way that it feels when i try and play gren. i love ninjas and pokemon so this inspired me to play him again :)
So glad you finally made this lol MKleo is so fun to watch using greninja i wondered why more people didn't play him.
As a fellow Chrom main, I'd love a video about him. Really such a great character with one, very large weakness that keeps him out of the conversation
Mr R, best Chrom in Europe made a videolike that about Chrom
What crazy timing. I just recently had the urge to start feeling out some new characters in Ultimate just for fun, today i started trying out Greninja (just against CPU9s) and then i come across this video. And a lot of what you said in this video is stuff that i think i realized kinda intuitively, without consciously realizing it until seeing it discusses in this video.
Like in the first few matches with him i was timing out a lot because i couldn't rack up enough damage fast enough. And if not timing out then just flat out losing badly. It's a serious adjustment playing Greninja compared to other characters for sure.
The biggest thing imo was learning to avoid attacks, like mentioned in the video. Lots of dashing in and out, drifting back and forth in the air to make opponent attacks whiff, effective use of sidestep dodge. Gotta get real good at timing your (fastfall) aerials too. It really is a kind of focused, patient aggression.
Being unable to fair, bair, or up B OOS like i'm used to with Zelda completely changes things.
Interestingly, i feel like learning this playstyle with Greninja has made me a little bit better with Marth, because before i was too laser focused on trying to stay at "tipper range", but that hypermobile playstyle kinda works for him too. I also feel like it's improved my microspacing for my tippers as well.
Interesting video! Great food for thought that has helped me change how i consciously perceive Ultimate.
I love playing as Greninja but that fatigue you mentioned really wrapped up all my feelings towards the character I couldn't out into words. Thank you for that!
As someone who plays luacrio and greninja the whole glass cannon was on point fr whenever I play lucario I have plenty of out of shield or safe options unlike greninja who like you said I basically got to wait until my opponent makes a mistake that I can take advantage of or I just have to back off so I don't get put in a defensive position I can't get out of either way love the video I don't play smash as much as I used to (cause genshin impact and pokemon unite lol) but video was great also love the Pokémon conquest music keep up the good vids, and if you get a chance could you do Lucario next!
Great video but i love you so much for using pokemon conquest music. Heavily underrated game
Smash content with actual substance and data holy shit thank you!
The moment I realized Pokémon Conquest music was playing at 0:35 I just... the nostalgia hit hard man
Also an ad hit while you were saying "projectiles" and it cut you off at such a moment my brain said "project on deez nu--"
Even more then him having no easy out of shield, because he does have foot stool out of shield it’s just really hard, his main problem is that his forward air is the slow hit and his back air is the fast one. And his jump is so high that he can just miss a lot of short characters. With the fair vs bair it’s the opposite for ROB he has the fast swatting fair and the powerful killing bair. So the Greninja if your face to face with someone in the air you only have nair which is slow and can be outranged so you just lose scrapping situations a lot more then a ROB or a Roy and thus have to think a lot about positioning.
I think the bigger problem with the no out of shield option is that it means you just can’t really safely shield like other characters so you just have it move and stay evasive and that’s hard to do over the course of an entire tournament.
loving the insight of this video. im quite late to this but i agree with most points surely. greninja is a very mentally taxing character and making long tournament runs with the problem of taking stocks (when playing against experienced players) is the worst.. thank you for this
Hi Tarik! God bless you for your hard work with Greninja.
Another really good greninja player is venia, he's really good at using movement options and taps the shield like once per stock. Also he can go toe to toe with Zomba
I main greninja and have even gone to a few local tournaments and gotten pretty good placements with him. As you said, the lack of out of shield options mixed with the lack of shield pressure options makes it a necessity to know your parry timing and how to follow up that parry. You have got to get the idea into their head that you're going to parry every move that they throw at you, it really throws your opponent for a loop, especially when your opponent doesn't have many mixup options. That being said, multihits are your downfall, even if you practice parrying multihits, there is no guarantee that you will actually pull it off in a live match. Which is why you need to know how to follow up a parry immediately. For example, if you parry a repeating jab, and you know the next jab is coming, you have two options: follow up the parry with a dodge to get out of harm's way, or you can shield. Shielding is not a viable option as stated before what with the lack of follow ups and general vulnerability when shielding. If you want to play Greninja in any competitive setting, you have to get parry timing down and know how to follow up the parry depending on the situation.
As a Greninja main I can say he is probably around the 35 best character in the game but one little change could make him so much better like a faster forward air, nair or grab would really improve him although if Nintendo doesn’t want to do that can they at least make his up smash connect on ps2
Is that pokemon conquest music i hear? You have good taste sir.
Greninja if anything is probably overrated. He's a good character overall but not only does he lack oos options, but he generally has two types of moves. Moves that are slow but have a lot of range (but only in one direction so he has to be precise), or moves that are fast but have horrible hitboxes. This makes him actually pretty linear in neutral, and a lot of people who rate him highly I'd argue also have underdeveloped tactics against whiff punish in general. The fact his moves are generally like this also means he gets mashed on really hard in basic juggle situations so despite his solid recovery and weight class, his overall disadvantage state is actually a lot worse than it looks especially when you consider his very bad ledge getups.
Also because you went out of your way to say Water Shuriken is good, I'm going to point out that move is garbage in neutral. That move is not actually good at all for camping (f21 point blank is TRASH for uncharged version), and its applications really just come down to using it as a stalling/wavebounce movement option or as an extension of advantage state.
Hey! This looks familiar! Lol So happy you made this better!! 😂😂
As a greninja main the most problematic thing about greninja is that even though he’s fast, his moves are hard to land sometimes and there’s a lack of ways to defend yourself
Why did I say “problematic” im turning into twitter
I mean I AM a bird
12:33 Footstool dair OOS is real and has kill confirms at around 100%. He’s definitely top tier, but I can understand how awkward he is to most people, I used to be one of the people who said, “oh yeah, I guess high tier, I don’t know”
Fast forward to the future, gren has footstool out of shield with die air that combos into fair or nair that can kill or give you advantage
I got greninja into elite smash some time ago and I can say I felt very confident using him. I tend to play in and unorthodox way so what the video says makes sense. I did have a lot of fun getting him to Elite. Try picking him up again after playing other characters and it wasn't the same.
Wow that clip of riddles getting flawless three stocked is just insane to watch
My practice partner/friend mains Greninja and i have some thoughts on him. For context I main Wolf.
-He is a fast faller so he is easy tocombo.
-While he can pressure you from distance only his charged shuriken could be considered a good projectile
- Yes he has good mobility put his poking tools are not that great
- the only way he can secure kills is either by conditioning you into his attacks or by executing really specific kill confirm options.
- lack of aproching options.
- a fast close range grab is better than a slow ranged one.
- and as everyone says he doesn't have any put shield option
Back then on the 3DS I mained him - I had no understanding of meta and didn‘t know it existed and I played against bots. The twist is I played 3 vs me and I felt so confident about my Greninja but sadly nobody played smash in my area. I played him exactly like you explained (without the shurikens) and all makes sense. A month ago I tried to pick him up again but it turned out that he feels too different from other characters for me now.
Glad Marss is starting to play him again and bring him out in tournaments, really like watching Greninja.
as a former greninja man who used to play and main greninja, in my opinion, greninja was pretty damn good, when u play him alot you can get used to how wacky he can be with the jump, speed, etc
I never played smash beyond 64 on an emulator
But iStudying really inspired me to look into Greninja whenever I had a chance (at a con or something like that) and no matter how hard or mid tier he is he will always be the coolest fighter in ssbu
There's a local greninja in my city that kicks everyone's ass
I LOVE the Pokémon conquest music used
Greninja is very reminiscent of sheik imo, except I would argue he's more consistent since he has more reliable kill confirms. His OOS are non existent, but the key to dealing with that is just to stay mobile and avoid having to sheild as much as possible. He has amazing whiff punishing options and good neutral.
Character is also a bit inconsistent. His up smash sometimes fails to connect, his up air sometimes fails to connect, his kill confirms are very particular on when they will connect AND kill. Just kinda adds to how frustrating he can be to play. In addition to being light and a fast faller; so he dies early and gets comboed hard.
I wouldn't say Greninja got "Buffed" or got Buffed individually, his thing is that the change from Smash 4 to Ultimate was the thing that helped him most, but his problems were never adressed or given something that compensated for those problems. Add to that the powercreep and the easier characters to play and yeah....
A someone who picked up Greninja relatively early, and with him being the first character I'd say I'm actually good at, I've noticed how I never use out of shield options when playing other characters, usually rolling away or something.
I started maining him 3-4 years ago because I love Greninja, he's my favorite pokémon, and ya he was tough to learn a bit but I stuck with him all this time and now I'm debatably one of the best players in my school, I'm the best Greninja for sure. Rather than exhausting, I LOVE playing him the way you gotta play him. I find it extremely fun rather than tiring
Omg this pokemon conquest music brought me back so many memories
DDD main here and I can relate to you Greninja guys on having no "get off me" tool or oos options, on top of having no reliable means of shield pressure or kill throws. Feels bad man...still you guys got a pretty honest character tho, Greninja can't just play the game and be rewarded with a win condition for doing so
The pokemon conquest music makes me mad nostalgic
Could you also do a video on Donkey Kong? I think your insights on him might be interesting.
Greninja has always been one of my favorite Pokémon, so it hurts me that he is not being utilized as much, but it makes total sense. When it comes to Greninja, people like me who main him can’t stand still. Shadow Sneak and Water Shuriken are my main moves and I like disorienting my opponents with them. Smash 4 made him one of the most annoying to deal with, and while I’ve been having a decent time in Ultimate with him, his flaws became more prominent despite how minor some of them may appear at first glance. Like his actual stats in Pokémon, Greninja’s mainly a fast special sweeper, but calling him frail is an understatement that’s hard to work around without setting up. I’m one of those people who consider myself a casual Smash player, but I also just like attacking as much as possible. Just like Sheik, Greninja is pretty paper thin, but to any person who is getting into Smash for the first time, sees them, and is told they are both ninjas, they’ll immediately decide to make use of what ninjas are famously great at - hitting hard and, more importantly, moving fast as hell. That said, I’ll never stop loving Greninja for what he’s best at, and his flaws never bothered me; saw them coming and made the best of them.
I CANT BELIEVE I MISSED THIS AT FIRST! YEASSS!
The pokemon conquest music go crazy
I like the Pokémon Conquest music!
Greninja isn’t played because he’s a frog and it’s not easy being green
TRUE
Ayyy, I know the Pokemon Conquest soundtrack when I hear it 😊
Can we just appreciate that Sakurai LITERALLY designed Greninja's moveset to represent actual Ninja tactics? Its insane!
For me its the short hop that really gets me. I usually lead with aerials (I'm a casual player, calm down) but with Greninja his aerials are unreliable for how tall his jump is.
I saw a Greninja main in a tournament once but not for long after he knocked off the stage a few times
When I first started playing Smash I rarely shielded or grabbed idk why I just didn't. I have learned to grab more but that lack of shielding really helps my greninja now
all ive gotta say is that your voice is very nice :)
By the way the music at the beginning is from the ost of pokemon conquest. I felt the need to point that out because it's one of my absolute favorite games of all times.
I just practiced clicking shield over and over vs holding shield against hits and I got parries 75% of the time when just clicking shield button including multi hit parries. It made playing greninja very satisfying
Another thing about Greninja you didn't mention is how extremely weird his normals are for the moveslot they are in. Fair is a somewhat slow kill move that is basically just his uncharged F-Smash while Bair is a multihit combo & edge guarding move, Nair has a delayed startup and has almost no range, and Up Smash is a 2 part move that starts above Greninja and moves downwards on both sides but only has significant knock back if the opponent is hit by the starting hitbox above you. There are many other things I could list but my point is his normals and especially aerials function vastly differently from any other character in the game that he won't feel very intuitive at first if you've played any other character first. Luckily for me Greninja was the first character I played in Smash 4 and was my main along with Bowser Jr. & Sheik so my learning curve was alot smoother and I got even better with him in Ult when I learned to never attack with side b on stage.
Bro ngl, that playstyle sounds so cool xd I don't play Smash but if I bought a damn switch I definitely want to learn this guy now
That part about having to come up with roundabout answer to straight forward is true, when i play greninja i dont even like to use roll that much instead ill just dash in and out of range real quick to avoid attacks and roll through opponents if need be, I also like to use the threat of my options to scare my opponent into making dumb moves, abusing his amazing quick fall speed is key cause you can jump wuick fall and then jump again for a wuick zip zag into your opponent. Kudos if you combo that into a foot stool down tilt nair
YAY EXCITED FOR THE PALU VID
Honestly I'm just satisfied that Greninja became a viable character at all. Still one of the most interestingly designed fighters in the series. I always feel like I'm learning when playing as Greninja.
Yo let’s get lucario next so we can be almost done with the Pokémon
i am also a greninja main and this video helped me understand more
I would love to see either a pit or k rool vid
When I got Super Smash Bros Ultimate as my first ever Smash game after a month later of the game being released, I wanted to be a Greninja main because he’s my favorite Pokémon, but I ended up being a Yoshi main then soon Pyra and Mythra.
Greninja had a Killer of a Trailer in Smash 4
Greninja main here in smash 4 I definitely saw the big flaw of bad out of sheild but in ultimate he's actually pretty nice altho I do try to avoid shielding much or just resorting to shadow sneak or substitute to avoid or to counter
I’d like to see a video on Mega Man; There really isn’t anyone else in the roster with quite as many projectiles to throw out as Mega Man yet he’s often looked over in favor of characters with fewer projectiles but better normals
FINALLY!! someone understands how big greninja's pivot grab is. It might as well be a tether
Ironically, the French name for Greninja, doesn't use the French word for frog.
The French name is Amphinobi. Which is infinitely cooler than Greninja
As someone who tried to play Greninja, he's pretty hard to master. I only use him in a very last emergency situation when I have nothing else left. The way he plays is slippery and fast, but he's no slouch to take out necessary opponents. He plays similarly to Joker, for I main him more, but I find Joker more easier to pilot than Greninja. His toolkit is great, but he takes time, effort, and dedication to master him.
Still wanna see why no one would play Isabelle. She was pretty hype to play during the first years of Ultimate, but drop to low to mid tier. I still play her to this day, but I need to know why.
As both Greninja and joker main, i tend to lean towards joker more as well because he just seems to be more consistent than Greninja and better frame data because Greninja frame data can be lacking at times as well
Ahh, this brings me back, one of my friends had brought a Switch to an event and asked us to choose a character, me, being the only one who didnt have or wanted to play a Switch, chose greninja, so then he tried beating up our choices without giving us a chance to play, three lives each.
Greninja survived after said friend got hurled off the stage by an unknown force (since we couldnt play). That was years ago.
Also still havent played smash ultimate.
Yoooo Pokemon conquest music lets go
Lacking out of shield options isn't as punishing in Greninja though, because of his speed he can play more of a dodging a dodging play style. Pretty similar to joker in this regard, also lacking out is shield options but quite fast so you don't shield as much as other characters.
I actually use him a lot and i feel like his b+side could much give him enough evasiveness that he doesn't need the shield (i dont even use it with him)
As someone who rarely ever even thinks about shielding, this character feels pretty good to play
why no one plays lucas would be interesting to see, his kit is actually insane
The odd bit is that it's much easier for me to play as greninja than any other character with the exception of Little Mac
Playing greninja is also a matter of being unpredictable, like a ninja imo. He is especially good in co-op.
I will say greninja does have a footstool out of shield down air its just not as useful at lower percent. This does change some conception of grens out of shield but the risk of it is only applied a pressure from landing aerials.
I once picked up Greninja for a time since he was similar to base Joker. I still play him for a game sometimes, see if he feels any better, then go back to whoever I feel like that day. I do enjoy playing Greninja, but his optimal playstyle of hit and run really turns me off. And I also wish his water shuriken was a charge shot too, I just couldn't fit that move into my game outside of a few edgeguards. There's no pressuring with water shuriken at mid-range the way there is with Mewtwo's shadow ball.
Greninja also has really inconsistent multi hits which are most of his moves. Greninja is more a top 35 or even 40 character
I’m gonna main Greninja just because you posted this.
Greninja in this game and even back in Smash 4 has Melee Yoshi syndrome. Even though Yoshi is finally starting to get the shine he deserves in the meta. But he’s in the “has huge potential” category.
Having a really high short-hop makes Greninja suffer