I'm Danish and I live in Russia. A few years back, part of a wooden Viking sun compass was found close the Ural Mountains. That found pushed the Vikings presence a good 1200 km East.
But could not (any) find of artefacts just explain trade (in the first place)? In Sweden there have been found items coming from India/Persia and thereabout. That does not really mean that the Persian empire stretched to Scandinavia though. Just saying.
I think that there is a much better candidate for the early settlement of the azores. Irish Monks. In the Icelandic sagas it is noted that the Norse were not the first to settle the island and that there were Irish hermit monks that were already living there, admittedly in small numbers. These were called the Papar and they were also found in the Faeroe islands and various Scottish islands, as well. The issue for a long time was finding archeological evidence to support the claims of the sagas and other medieval historians and to be honest evidence is slim. There are some crosses carved on the wall of Kverkarhellir cave in Iceland and some evidence of pre-norse cereal production and peat burning, but not much because these were likely non materialic eremitic styled holy men who had take some sort of vow of seclusion. So we have a group of hermits settling islands in the atlantic ocean who leave behind very little material culture and predate norse exploration. The Mouse DNA is also found in Ireland so that is another strong link. Then we have a possible connection to the 'Voyage of St Brendan' in which the Abbott was said to have discovered some 'bless island' somewhere in the mid atlantic, west of the African coast. It is a bit of a stretch as the entire story of the voyage is full of fantasy elements but it perhaps was inspired by a real voyage or maybe it inspired future voyages. Best thing about the Irish monk hypothosis is that it also explains where they disappeared to. Communities of men who have taken vows of chastity are never going to repopulate themselves and will naturally come to an end.
Yeah, no women that are my first thought. If there are women and water then the story should be similar to the mouse, we multiply very easily that's what we do.
Brendans voyage isn’t that fantastical ,I always thought the balls of fire being thrown at them was probably how they best understood a volcano at that time,they wouldn’t have seen that in Ireland.The pillars are a description of icebergs with the same logic applied.
Nice. A small temporary monastic presence is more plausible than a Viking colony that disappeared. Key to either hypothesis is: were there sheep on the Islands when the Portuguese arrived? I can't imagine them dying out once established on an island without predators.
@@aurora_occidentalis2248 My first question, where did the animals go? There must be bones somewhere as well. Secondly, what happened in the sediment cores post 1150. Was there evidence of continual habitation? Did the Vikings or Celts use slash and burn agriculture? A monastic settlement surely would have had a church of some beehive huts or something, the monks loved that stuff... so many interesting questions thrown up by this cool video.
As a Azorean, is nice seeing our "diaspora" or Azorean descent, claming that. In the old days, people would just be ashamed or just say they are "portuguese", isnt incorrect, but its annoying, that the Azores have a very specific location and their own identity.
@@RaizanMedia So many reasons where i start. The Azores are portuguese territory yes, but in history was never treated the same as other mainland lands. The Azores obviously for being a far way insular land, and with not only portuguese migration, developed its own thing and identity. When mainland portuguese say "i am from Portugal" the concept of Portugal to them, most of the time is mainland Portugal, how many times ive heard "so, when are you planning coming to Portugal?" lol or the classic "you are from the Azores studying here? So you came from a Erasmus program". When old Azoreans in the XX century meant "i come from Portugal" (specially at the time of a nationalistic dictatorship" they meant their islands. Current generation changed that a bit, most of those Azoreans never stepped foot on mainland Portugal and never did. And because of that, the Azores, were always unnoticed. There is a feeling, about island people and identity that being from the Azores that you can only know. Oh and i forgot to add, mainland portuguese themselfs are the first ones to exclud the Azores (and Madeira) from their maps, can be small things, like a news network, a publicity in the street or even souvenirs in the street. Its a reminder of "you are Portugal, but not like us" with time i just accepted that. We even have a term for our identity "Açorianidade".
I'd like to add some cool facts aswell. One is, there are Y-dna haplogroup I1 living descendants in both the Azores and Portugal. This is completely unexpected considering the history of haplogroup I1. As it arose in Scandinavia at the start of the bronze age 2000BCE. Everywhere you see I1 today outside of Scandinavia is legacy from either scandinavian vikings or other germanic migrations. As of the current I1 tree, there are 3 azorean descendants who share a common ancestors with several english descendants, that common ancestors is estimated to have been born in the 900's CE. It's deeply fascinating. With the current data the most obvious conclusion is that they are viking descandants, and it looks like it's either danish or swedish vikings.
The reason the type f mice are likely earlier than the Portuguese colonization is because once a mouse population establishes itself it is very difficult for new populations of mice to displace them. The new mice are either rejected or are quickly absorbed into the gene pool. Because of this most mouse populations around the world are descended from the original mice to land there and not later introductions.
There is stories of St Brenden "Brenden the Navigator, Who sail from Ireland in 504 and returned 7 years latter, these stories tell of visiting un- inhabited Inlands, The boat was big enough for 18 monks and supplies.
@Sybe's Search Metaaldetectie I am Azorean, and the Atlantis myth is kinda in the popular mind of people, companies, shows, newspapers from the Azores had or have Atlantis in the name. Its one of the myths on the popular mind of the Azorean identity, but people just take it as that, as a myth and a nice story.
Actually, we are a consortium of archaeologists, historians and natural science researchers writing a rebuttal article on this PNAS paper. The gist of our arguments: 1) the organic compounds and spores are NOT exclusive to cattle and humans. Bird poo also have them; 2) rye can appear in the islands as any other plant, carried either by wind or birds. Rye pollen DOES NOT mean humans; 3) fire in volcanic islands appears naturally, look at the Canaries volcano; charcoal DOES NOT means human; 4) there are NO artifacts or buildings predating the 15th century in the Azores; 5) the islands were known in the 14th but were only settled in the 15th century because only THEN did they become strategic to Iberian navigation from Africa.
But then why was there an apparent abundance of those spores and organic compounds within those layers? Also, what about the rats? I’m not educated in this field but I’m just curious
@@buildinasentry1046 birds produced de spores and compounds. The rats came with ships from any port: ships sailed all around Europe. There are mtDNA genomes like these in Southern Spain and on the Mediterranean
Also, the mice could have got there from a ship wreck that washed ashore. The Catalan Atlas from 1375 has a lot of guessing and islands that don't exist.
It's well known even from their own histories that the Norse sailors just had a general idea of where they were going, and would often make land in places quite far off their intended destination. Like the wrong islands in the Orkneys and Hebrides for instance! It's very possible that they were heading off somewhere on a viking and ended up saying 'ah well, lets carry on a while longer Svein?' 'aye ok Thorkel'
Stefan, just a possible idea for a future video. Paleo crescent blades found in the western Great Basin and into the southern Central Valley of California arrived with the first people entering North America. They have been found with typical fluted Clovis points in many areas, and their use was never fully understood. Then, like the fluted Clovis points, they disappear from the archaeological record during the Younger Dryas. Although Clovis style blades have never been found in Siberia, there is evidence that Siberians did use crescent shaped blades for hunting waterfowl. If you're interested in knowing more please drop me a line. BTW, this video was very well done as are all of your videos.
Hay stefan have you read about the hypothesis that a Viking fleet was blown off course and landed in Central American and had contact with the early mayans this could have been a stop off of so on the return journey
Faskinating. I love the way you inject enthusiasm into curiosity. It communicates the passion for research. Looking forward to hearing more discoveries from there.
Digging all the cool production value stuff you been adding! Animations, transitions, etc are all very engaging. I also like the sit-and-talk stuff, but both have their own strengths.
It’s because the cold and the dark. As a Swede the winter is fucking unbearable at times, so I completely understand the Vikings sailing down to the mediterrainian to get some sun
For some reason I just love those weird sources archeologists use. You look at some pollen, poo, and mice genes, and discover something about the history of humanity. Isn't that cool. P.S. Tropical Vikings 😱
I had the privilege of living on the isle of Terceira in the Azores for 6 months a decade ago. It was still believed then that there was no arrival before the 1400s. I always felt there was something ancient there. Strange vibes and energy I've never felt elsewhere, and I wasn't a woo-woo person. Incredible place.
The azores are the most beautiful place i have visited. The unique climate and geology allow for the most perfect scenery imaginary. The fauna under water is also absolutely stunning, it feels like you can see almost everything the atlantic has to offer in just one place. Hearing about the amazing history now has made the place even more special to me. I can`t recommend enough to travel to the azores, and the neat part is, that they are almost exactly between the states and europe. Thank you for the great video as always, keep up the good work, you are one of my favorite creators.
I did research the islands some years ago for a potential trip. I think I dropped it because of the cost. The things that I liked was the scenery there and lack of tourist traps. I had to search a lot because it wasn't the typical tourist destination for us here in Norway.
As a Azorean, in which knows the Azores was always a backwards place, left out in history and society and that people had no idea it existed. Its nice hearing such things and our recent "discovery".
Scandinavians(Swedes particularly) have traded with Portugal as far back as at least the bronze age, far earlier than the viking era. Our ships went down there laden with amber, and probably other trade goods, and returned with tin for making bronze, again also probably with other trade goods. How did we learn bronze making without tin mines of our own? From the Egyptians we traded with, and then we improved the technology for tool making, the egyptians could only make big blocky stuff like doors, and we returned and traded our improvement to them.
And there has been contact between Britain and Iberia since long before recorded history. Any boat could have been swept across to the Azores from anywhere from North Africa to Scandinavia.
So cool and bizarre to have a stefan milo video on my home islands! Haven't seen it all yet, but just a little piece of Folklore from Corvo and Flores (folklore as i can't say i have seen this referenced/written down anywhere), but, suposedly, the first portuguese that landed in Corvo, found a wooden statue/human figure pointing West. As a kid, i always thought of this legend as some kind of hint as to who might have crossed the islands before the tugas, maybe the phoenicians or someone else ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Anyways, still can't believe you made a video on the islands, and even though i'm still somewhat sceptical about the recent findings, i'm sure i'll love this video as i do all your other ones, thank you!
@@agustinaguero8163 Look up "Tale of the equestrian statue of Corvo Island". It appears to be a continuation of an earlier Phoenician myth. Look for "Timelines: A Phoenician Fable". TH-cam keeps removing comments that have links in them, so just search for the quoted text. I took it from the titles of the articles.
I've heard some of these stories as well in my search for evidence that the Azores may have been a Phoenician colony and the source for the Atlantis tales.
Now I've got the GIlligan's Island theme playing in my head as I imagine a boat full of vikings intending on a simple three-hour tour but ending up stranded instead. Hopefully they had a professor in the group, but I'm guessing there were no girls hence their absence.
If they stayed there it may have been off and on as staging and resupplying bases for raids into the Mediterranean. No point in staying there if there's no one to plunder, really
With „Ég kem alveg af fjöllum“ you have compelled me to leave my first youtube comment ever. Well played, sir! Excellent channel - really ruining my productivity like all the best ones do. Cheers from Iceland!
Disappointed that what was skipped is that Vikings sailed to the Mediterranean, and their northern mice thus could have migrated with them. There were Vikings who arrived in Iberia.
Yeah, but that would be known, if those genes spread to iberia? BUT norwegian sailors could easily have been at the islands between 15th century and now, and mice came there like that?
@@fredriks5090 could be, but there has been countless, countless norwegian ships there, aside from crusaders too. And countless portugese ships have been in Norway over the centuries. They love our "klippfisk". So much so that people have noticably darker hair and eyes in many of the coastal towns here, versus the innland
The idea is that the mice population on the island is likely to be the first population of mice there. In other words, if Northern mice had arrived after the Portugese. They would not have settled.
I love the idea that Vikings were in the Azores. However, both Terceira and Santa Maria were occupied by soldiers during WWII to build the British and American bases there. That could account for Type F mice. Supplied for both bases came from the UK. At the end of the war, the US moved to Terceira and the UK left. Americans are still maintaining the bases at Lajes today.
There's a yet to be discovered tapestry on one of those Islands, depicting the journeys 🏖🏖of "Halftanson The Consistent" It begins by showing his war chief explaining to him, that he needs to use acquired vacation time or lose it, and ends with an Hawaiian shirt wearing 🌺 sunburned ☀️ Hal on a sandy Azores beach with his 3 Irish slaves🍀
I love how the narrator's demeanor gets more and more friendly. At 6:00 he's just suddenly dressed down and inside. I expected him to be broadcasting from a bubble bath by the end 😂
wonderfully interesting. A paper I read a couple of years back proved that the Norse only settled permanently in places where they could find bog iron. Find the bog, and you'll find the settlement close by.
Stefan I’ve recently fell in love with your channel and even cooler we went to the same University!! From someone with no real prior interest in archaeology, keep it up dude
Another fantastic video. Thank you very much indeed. Just a little note about Lagoa do Peixinho... The best way I can describe the pronunciation of "Peixinho" would be "pay-sheen-yo". "Peixe" means fish, and the "-inho" bit is diminutive (hence, Ronaldinho means little Ronaldo). Lagoa, unsurprisingly, means Lake. And "do" is a contraction of "de" and "o" (of the). So, rather cutely, Lagoa do Peixinho means Lake of the Little Fish or Little Fish Lake. Kind of sweet, no?
Stefan, you do great work, please keep it up. I would offer another possible scenario, it may be that like the Portuguese, any Northmen, West Africans, or Mediterranean peoples who stumbled upon the Azores found it devoid of humans, and as such there was no gold, silver or manufactured goods to plunder or trade for. Those cultures may have then used the Azores as a place to stop and make repairs to their ships, take on fresh water, resupply their stores of fish that they could salt and then move on to better hunting grounds. The Azores had value to the Portuguese to be the first permanent stepping stone in their Empire building.
I would suggest as to why there is little evidence of infrastructure or other objects is because if there was a reduction in pollen, they were making wooden huts. They were burning wood into charcoal for fuel, and technology was so advanced when they arrived they forgot how to start certain things like smithing from scratch. Instead, I presume they would of traded things on the island for tools. There would be plenty fish for them to eat, there’s no doubt a culture deep rooted to seafaring knew how to fish with traps and basic wooden rods, using plant fibre as a line.
Long before the establishment of the kingdom of Portugal, the inhabitants of this territory were already sailing in the Atlantic Ocean. The Portuguese were not born suddenly sailing, but were already sailing prior to the concept of discoveries. Many islands and territories were known before by fishermen.
Those images of the towns and landscape make the Azores look like a beautiful place. There are still a lot of Canadians that will mention the Vikings landed around what is present day Vermont in general long before Columbus who didn't actually set foot on continental land, but they were totally unaware of L'Anse aux Meadows when I added that to the conversation. Learning history is an on going process. This segment was part of my continual learning. Thank you.
Definitely a cool mystery. I know there's evidence Vikings (and others) inhabited nearby Madeira too. I remember you said you wanted to do a video on the Canary Islands with the Guanches. Can't wait!
LOL... Iceland is on planet earth. Yes there are mice, and rats in Iceland... and plenty of them ;-) There is no mosquito in Iceland for some reason, can't breed in the constantly changing weather... or something like that... but we have plenty of other biting insects though. ... sounds like your sources were written by the same people that wrote the Geography book that was being taught in Denmark when I moved there as a child. It stated that Iceland had no trees and was mostly tundra. My teacher wouldn't have it when I, as an 11 year old, tried to correct that error stating that though there were no large forests in Iceland... there were trees.... and that there was barely any tundra in Iceland. My teacher would not have it... LOL :o)
@@sgjoni there is some planted forests now.. and there was once.. but you vikings chopped them down.. as to the mice.. maybe sue means no mice before humans brought them
@@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367 If that is what he meant then it is in no contradiction to what is claimed in the video and would be right. at least according to what was taught in school here when I was a kid, that the only mammal native to Iceland (i.e. from before human settlement) is the Arctic Fox. ..."you Vikings"... I can't quite take the honour... ;-) ...sure, at least 50% of my ancestors were Norse and some of them Vikings... but at least 40% were from the British isles... slaves or Norse Gails... and about 10% a mixed bag of mainly North-West European (Sámi/German/Dutch/French/Basque.. etc.) and possibly even some American based on DNA connections and traces... possibly from the era of the Norse settlement in Greenland though I suspect it is from the 18th-17th century.
Hi 👋 Stefan, if you haven’t already done so, you might want to check out a professor Nuno Ribeiro from the Azores who has been showing evidence of ancient exploration settlement of the Azorean archipelago
Love your channel! My dad was born in Pico and my mom in Terceira. I visited both islands with them in 2000 and loved it. I've always wondered about the deeper history, so it's very intriguing to hear of the research being done to determine what all occurred before Europeans arrived. Can't wait to visit again and do some poking around myself, LOL. Maybe some of my relatives can share some lore and myth with a peek into the past that can point me in the right direction (I wish... b ut fun to imagine!) Does make complete sense, along with the science on the mice, sheep, etc., that people were there long before those who arrived in the 15th century.
Please chase this down from another comment: "...but just a little piece of Folklore from Corvo and Flores (folklore as i can't say i have seen this referenced/written down anywhere), but, suposedly, the first portuguese that landed in Corvo, found a wooden statue/human figure pointing West. As a kid, i always thought of this legend as some kind of hint as to who might have crossed the islands before the tugas, maybe the phoenicians or someone else ¯\_(ツ)_/¯..."
A southerly wind blows south to north. I believe you meant that it was a northerly wind that possibly allowed/encouraged the Norse to sail to the Azores.
Great stuff! Really enjoyed this. Also, there are ancient Greek records that seem to indicate that they sailed as far as the U.K. ... and possibly Iceland. So, possibly they set foot in the Azores too.
Another great video. Its pretty compelling. The Norse did wander around and they were looking for places to colonise (Newfoundland, Greenland, Ireland, Northern France. However, very isolated and small collonies, are very vulnerable to decay and disaster; inbreading, disease, a plaue brought by longed for vistors, clan feuds, natural disaters, shipwreck etc. The mouse evidence is compelling. If looking for archeological evidence, how about looking for evidence on the 'clade f' islands underwater, in the splendid natural harbours? I guess sea levels have changed? BTW your explanation of a change in prevailing wnd direction confused me; a southerly wind blows FROM the south and takes you north?
Well, the Norse didn't inbread in Eastern Europe, or especially in France where they married local Frankish nobles and basically became French, giving birth to Normandy. But in the Azores, yeah, not much chance of that.
I'd like to express to you just how much I appreciate your channel and the time and research efforts you put into what is among the most valuable contents on the tubes. This is why Al Gore gave us the interwebs to begin with. If I ever win the lottery or inherit a large trust fund from an as of yet unknown rich distant relative, you can be sure you'll be first in line for tax avoidance scheme donations. My day is always improved when I find an alert for a new video from you. Thank you, dude. Truly.
Just heard you on AtlasPros new video, cool to see you working with other youtubers! I hope some of his subscribers realize how great your videos are and you can get some more recognition
Well balanced approach, Stefan. IMO the most important evidence is the dating of sediments really, because *Irish* mice could perfectly have been brought in later times by Basque or even Portuguese sailors (Basques and other peoples from the Bay of Biscay massively exploited the Irish fisheries and jumped from there to Newfoundland... and even to Iceland, where they were massacred). The dates are clearly Viking Era and thus it must have been the Norse. It's also more or less known that *Normans* (you know: those semi-civilized neo-Vikings who spoke French) were involved in some early African explorations: they were present in the early conquest and looting of Canary islands and some speculate they may have explored West Africa all the way to the Gulf of Guinea. These Azorean Vikings must have been in constant contact with Europe and eventually decided that there was more to loot and plunder elsewhere, that subsistance farming and fishing in remote islands was of little interest compared with all the looting opportunities that the Norman campaigns to Britain, Italy and "the Orient" provided. Alternatively (and this only further archaeology can discern), they may have lived in some of the islands all the way to the Portuguese conquest. You say that the Portuguese claimed that the island were uninhabited but the reality is that the Portuguese did not "claim" much and that the islands were known to Europeans before the Age of Exploration, being cartographed in the famous Catalan Atlas (1375) and even earlier in the Medici maps, but mostly ignored and only "rediscovered" later on with various accounts of how that happened conflicting each other.
fabulous vid, as always! Mysterious that the Norse packed it up after a short time in (at latest) the 12th C, while the climate wasn't too band. And the Azores is even more mysterious. Maybe they were just into trading and raiding, or otherwise heading home. Certainly many individual Norsemen stayed in Britain and married into the local culture, but as a group they didn't create a permanent colony in Britain, nor in Russia where they were known to have explored. Been there, done that--like the Chinese, who explored as far afield as Africa but never more than as a curiosity.
Actually, the "norsemen" dominated several regions of what is now the UK for a long time and a large part of them integrated into the rest of society... and let's not forget who William I was.
The Maps are very interesting. In 1513 Ottoman admiral and cartographer Piri Reis drew up maps showing The Azores and Antarctica among other places, not "discovered" until much later than his era. In the margins of his maps he writes his maps were copies of much older maps taken form the Library of Alexandria. How much older these source maps were we have no idea. The maps in this video may have the same origins as the Piri Reis maps.
Nordic mice could have hitched a ride on a Portuguese vessel because the Portuguese traded in Northern Europe. Also some Scots, Englishmen and bretons also inhabited the Azores. Mice from Scotland could easily have stowed away in their belongings. Need evidence of Viking habitation to put forward a theory with confidence.
Not only just a few also, most Azorean people are descendents of migrants from France, Flanders and Northern Europe, who came in number to mainland Portugal and the islands to settle the recently conquered land in the late middle ages. By chance, it is much more likely that a ship from one of these places stranded those mice there, than a Viking presence which lacks any physical evidence
When the climate cooled in the mini ice age (1300-1850) the seas became more turbulent and the Viking ships are low and light, perfect for calm seas, but no so good in stormy weather. So it could be they just could not keep up the connections they had before the climate changed.
I couldn’t find any discussion of the seas being more turbulent during the Little Ice Age. However, the LIA may well have been caused in part by variations in the North Atlantic Oscillation, one pole of which is centered on the Azores. The NAO influences the location of the tropical rain belt, which could potentially have caused extended drought conditions in the Azores. I’m just speculating, as there seems not to be much published on paleoclimatic changes in the Azores. In any case, if there had been an extended period of human habitation in the Azores prior to the arrival of the Portuguese, it seems likely there would have been more evidence of it so far. TBD.
There is some Proto-Germanic U106 Y DNA in Portugal, so some coastal North Sea Germanic-Scandinavians must have got down that way. Since they were getting over to the Shetlands, Orkneys, Faroes, etc in the 450s CE and on in rowed keel ships, then later in upgraded ships with sails, it's not too surprising they may have gotten to the Azores as well.
I came here to say this too. Also, far less significantly (and possibly semantically), but there are a number of islands which have a better claim to being the middle of the Atlantic than the Azores. Tristan de cunha, ascension island etc, there’re loads that are more remote.
There is reason to doubt the Portuguese accounts that the islands were deserted or not previously inhabited. There were doctrines from multiple kings to destroy evidence of prior expansion into new lands
According to Judith Jesch in "the viking diaspora", some islands in the North Atlantic were used only to store sheep, but they were not inhabited. Maybe these islands were used for that, and that can explain why there is no signs of settlers (buildings, and other archeological finds)
Given the location of the Azores it seems to me it would be a perfect depot island for the Atlantic. In the same way the US has bases all over the pacific islands. It would make sense to me for a sea faring people exploring the Atlantic to show up to the island, set up a few pastures, and leave sheep (or whatever) there. There would be no predators and plenty of food, so you could essentially just leave the animals to eat and breed. That way any ship could swing by and slaughter a bunch of sheep for a re-supply. It may have never been properly "settled", but it could have extended the range of early exploration/trade.
Mushroom spores are a poor argument. Grifola frondosa and Flammulina velitipes are on both sides of the Pacific as two examples. Genetics show no distintion, they have always been the same circumequitorial populations. Highly cosmopolitan due to it being dormant and the size of dust. Samples from the top of Everest yield viable spores from all over the world. How many goats get dragged up there?
Its in the snow. You can find fungi to the edge of space not just spores. You have to go pretty far up to be able to take the cover off a sterile Petri dish and not get spores or yeasts.
Certainly got around them vikings , seamanship & good navigation. My ancestors were Vikings who settled in Normandy to become the Normans & then southern England
Fascinating🤔 To make a sail for a Viking ship you need around 2000 sheep. People don`t realise how advanced and expensive Viking ships was in the medieval society. Norse excelled at trade and warfare but this changed when the old culture were abandoned for the imported abraham religion and the more stationary Faudal lifestyle. Also the Hanseatic league would gradually take over the old Norse trade networks. To be isolated on this islands, would be hard to maintain capable Atlantic seagoing ships. Contact with the rest of the world would also be harder. My guess is that The Azores became to isolated for a small population to thrive as the Viking network declined. But they probably enjoyed life for a while. Wil be interesting to see if they find more. btw subscribed👍
The real question is, why were the Norse randomly traveling around the Atlantic with sheep on their boats? 🤔 Not judging .. What happens on the Azores, stays on the Azores I guess. 🤣
Well, vikings transported horses. Sheep are smaller and viking ships also had woolen sails. You would want a few sheep around in case it was necessary to mend them and wool doesn't grow on trees...🤣🤣🤣
I found myself thinking about you while in a waking dream, your name went through my head as “Stefan De Milo”, and then my brain obliged by conjuring up an image of the Venus De Milo with you in the place of the lady and it gave me a jolly chuckle. Cheers 😅 Fantastic videos, by the way.
Look Ragnar, what a beautiful island Hrulf, the skin on my face is coming off from the intense sunburns, please don’t make us stay here for another year, I can’t guarantee the crew won’t leave their axes in your skull
The Norse would NOT burn entire forests. Wood was their main construction material. They would have cut down useable trees (Oak, Pine, Birch, etc) then possibly burned remaining brush.
Im sure you mention this in the video but the original name of Corvo was the island of the statue because there's multiple reports of a statue of s man on a horse on a hill, pointing west. It was removed and given to the king if Portugal. Theres also structures on one of the islands that a gew scientists believe are pre-Portugues. Interesting fact,Flores and Corvo are actually part of the north American continental plate and Madeira is on the African plate so Portugal proper actually exists on there continents
I'm Portuguese... and our history says there wasn't anyone there when we arrived but we all know the evidences are there from early settlements with a thousand maybe more years but for us they were northen Iberians! Thank You for sharing. Loved it
Norse are a good candidate, but Basque fishermen may be more likely. It’s also well-known that Irish missionaries were sailing far and wide in curraghs in the early medieval period and even predated the Norse in Iceland (the Norse referred to them as the _Papar_ ). As for why the islands were uninhabited when the Portuguese arrived, I think your hunches are correct. From the tephrochronological record of São Miguel alone, it is known that at least two confirmed explosive (VEI 4) eruptions of the silicic caldera and stratovolcano on the island known as Furnas took place in the early-to-middle medieval period, before Portuguese “discovery”, one at ~1170±100 CE, and another earlier one at ~840±100 CE. Such eruptions would deposit locally thick blankets of ash on fields of grain and grazing pastures alike, as well as tainting water supplies, and even after the Portuguese settlement, these eruptions were responsible for famine and outbreaks of epidemics. Oceanic volcanic islands such as those of the Azores are also at high risk of flank collapse, where a steep, coastal portion of the quickly extruded and gravitationally-unstable lavas and tuffs that comprises these islands sloughs off due to seismic activity, creating an underwater landslide that displaces a large amount of seawater and creates tsunamis that can rise hundreds of meters, locally. There isn’t specific evidence of such an event in the period before Portuguese settlement, but it would be prudent to look for it. Such a flank collapse event on Mt. Etna in Sicily around 8.3 ka bp is thought to have been responsible for the utter destruction and drowning of the Neolithic settlement of Atlit-Yam in modern-day Israel, for example.
Ruling the world is an odd way of describing Vikings blending in with the cultures they found, almost everywhere they dropped anchor. They became French in Normandy, Native Canadian in Newfoundland, Russian in Moscow, Sicilian in Sicily. Very much the prototype of immigrants diving in the melting pot.
@@craigbhill we been a few places too, much larger area though...the Pacific. But we actually blended in with the environment, So we ruled a world much greater and far less forgiving. But that just feels like I'm joining you in boasting. I'm not, I'm relaying facts. I am one eighth Sicilian though so you still may speak truth.
For no special reason, archeology fascinates me, specially when talking about human migrations around the world. Love the mice saying "e ai"! It's our "what's up", in Brazil. 😁
I'm Danish and I live in Russia. A few years back, part of a wooden Viking sun compass was found close the Ural Mountains. That found pushed the Vikings presence a good 1200 km East.
The Vikings travelled Russian and Ukrainian rivers all the way to Greece
Love your Channel! Mange tak!
But could not (any) find of artefacts just explain trade (in the first place)? In Sweden there have been found items coming from India/Persia and thereabout. That does not really mean that the Persian empire stretched to Scandinavia though. Just saying.
Roman coins found in East Asia, did Rome have a secret colony?
@@andriusgimbutas3723 It's called trade
I think that there is a much better candidate for the early settlement of the azores. Irish Monks. In the Icelandic sagas it is noted that the Norse were not the first to settle the island and that there were Irish hermit monks that were already living there, admittedly in small numbers. These were called the Papar and they were also found in the Faeroe islands and various Scottish islands, as well.
The issue for a long time was finding archeological evidence to support the claims of the sagas and other medieval historians and to be honest evidence is slim. There are some crosses carved on the wall of Kverkarhellir cave in Iceland and some evidence of pre-norse cereal production and peat burning, but not much because these were likely non materialic eremitic styled holy men who had take some sort of vow of seclusion.
So we have a group of hermits settling islands in the atlantic ocean who leave behind very little material culture and predate norse exploration. The Mouse DNA is also found in Ireland so that is another strong link.
Then we have a possible connection to the 'Voyage of St Brendan' in which the Abbott was said to have discovered some 'bless island' somewhere in the mid atlantic, west of the African coast. It is a bit of a stretch as the entire story of the voyage is full of fantasy elements but it perhaps was inspired by a real voyage or maybe it inspired future voyages.
Best thing about the Irish monk hypothosis is that it also explains where they disappeared to. Communities of men who have taken vows of chastity are never going to repopulate themselves and will naturally come to an end.
Yeah, no women that are my first thought. If there are women and water then the story should be similar to the mouse, we multiply very easily that's what we do.
Brendans voyage isn’t that fantastical ,I always thought the balls of fire being thrown at them was probably how they best understood a volcano at that time,they wouldn’t have seen that in Ireland.The pillars are a description of icebergs with the same logic applied.
Nice. A small temporary monastic presence is more plausible than a Viking colony that disappeared. Key to either hypothesis is: were there sheep on the Islands when the Portuguese arrived? I can't imagine them dying out once established on an island without predators.
@@aurora_occidentalis2248 My first question, where did the animals go? There must be bones somewhere as well. Secondly, what happened in the sediment cores post 1150. Was there evidence of continual habitation? Did the Vikings or Celts use slash and burn agriculture? A monastic settlement surely would have had a church of some beehive huts or something, the monks loved that stuff... so many interesting questions thrown up by this cool video.
Lmonk. The first thing that sprang to my mind too was St Brendan
Being a Viking enthusiast of Azorean descent, this video is like a gift to me.
As a Azorean, is nice seeing our "diaspora" or Azorean descent, claming that. In the old days, people would just be ashamed or just say they are "portuguese", isnt incorrect, but its annoying, that the Azores have a very specific location and their own identity.
That's dope.
@@gordusmaximus4990 Why is it annoying? You are part of Portugal, and are part of the Portuguese identity.
@@RaizanMedia So many reasons where i start.
The Azores are portuguese territory yes, but in history was never treated the same as other mainland lands.
The Azores obviously for being a far way insular land, and with not only portuguese migration, developed its own thing and identity.
When mainland portuguese say "i am from Portugal" the concept of Portugal to them, most of the time is mainland Portugal, how many times ive heard "so, when are you planning coming to Portugal?" lol or the classic "you are from the Azores studying here? So you came from a Erasmus program".
When old Azoreans in the XX century meant "i come from Portugal" (specially at the time of a nationalistic dictatorship" they meant their islands. Current generation changed that a bit, most of those Azoreans never stepped foot on mainland Portugal and never did. And because of that, the Azores, were always unnoticed.
There is a feeling, about island people and identity that being from the Azores that you can only know.
Oh and i forgot to add, mainland portuguese themselfs are the first ones to exclud the Azores (and Madeira) from their maps, can be small things, like a news network, a publicity in the street or even souvenirs in the street. Its a reminder of "you are Portugal, but not like us" with time i just accepted that.
We even have a term for our identity "Açorianidade".
I'd like to add some cool facts aswell. One is, there are Y-dna haplogroup I1 living descendants in both the Azores and Portugal. This is completely unexpected considering the history of haplogroup I1. As it arose in Scandinavia at the start of the bronze age 2000BCE. Everywhere you see I1 today outside of Scandinavia is legacy from either scandinavian vikings or other germanic migrations. As of the current I1 tree, there are 3 azorean descendants who share a common ancestors with several english descendants, that common ancestors is estimated to have been born in the 900's CE. It's deeply fascinating. With the current data the most obvious conclusion is that they are viking descandants, and it looks like it's either danish or swedish vikings.
I swear were gonna get to mars at this point and find remnants of a viking long ship.
Hell yea😊
Right? All these "Keyboard warriors" really start to grate against common sense and reality.
😂😂😂😂
isn't there one that was uncovered and is now in a museum?
@@zipperpilloware you capable of picking up on humor?
The reason the type f mice are likely earlier than the Portuguese colonization is because once a mouse population establishes itself it is very difficult for new populations of mice to displace them. The new mice are either rejected or are quickly absorbed into the gene pool. Because of this most mouse populations around the world are descended from the original mice to land there and not later introductions.
But surely there must be exceptions to this? It’s not definitive evidence by a long stretch.
@@zanedietlin7645 that’s why I say most mouse populations and not all.
Are you a mouse?
@@I_Have_The_Most_Japanese_Music I am yep. Let me know if you see any cats.
I know I'm late but can you provide a source for this? Sounds very interesting
There is stories of St Brenden "Brenden the Navigator, Who sail from Ireland in 504 and returned 7 years latter, these stories tell of visiting un- inhabited Inlands, The boat was big enough for 18 monks and supplies.
thats 400 years off though. Human evidence starts at 900 not 500
Azores definitely need more archeological attention! So interesting and mysterious.
@Sybe's Search Metaaldetectie Maybe if we try hard enough we will even be able to find Hitler there
@@andriusgimbutas3723 The Russians got his remains, his body wasn't too burned as it turns out...that came out after the fall of the USSR.
@@littledikkins2 nah dude, he got away to south america with his homies.
I've always wanted to go there...
@Sybe's Search Metaaldetectie I am Azorean, and the Atlantis myth is kinda in the popular mind of people, companies, shows, newspapers from the Azores had or have Atlantis in the name. Its one of the myths on the popular mind of the Azorean identity, but people just take it as that, as a myth and a nice story.
Actually, we are a consortium of archaeologists, historians and natural science researchers writing a rebuttal article on this PNAS paper. The gist of our arguments:
1) the organic compounds and spores are NOT exclusive to cattle and humans. Bird poo also have them;
2) rye can appear in the islands as any other plant, carried either by wind or birds. Rye pollen DOES NOT mean humans;
3) fire in volcanic islands appears naturally, look at the Canaries volcano; charcoal DOES NOT means human;
4) there are NO artifacts or buildings predating the 15th century in the Azores;
5) the islands were known in the 14th but were only settled in the 15th century because only THEN did they become strategic to Iberian navigation from Africa.
Everyone thumbs up this comment.
Is there any difference between charcoal from forest fires vs. camp fires ?
But then why was there an apparent abundance of those spores and organic compounds within those layers? Also, what about the rats? I’m not educated in this field but I’m just curious
@@buildinasentry1046 birds produced de spores and compounds. The rats came with ships from any port: ships sailed all around Europe. There are mtDNA genomes like these in Southern Spain and on the Mediterranean
Also, the mice could have got there from a ship wreck that washed ashore. The Catalan Atlas from 1375 has a lot of guessing and islands that don't exist.
I can’t believe Chris Pratt got cast as Mario instead of Stefan…
Mamma mia. What a bunch of baloney
Dr. Mario Jumpman, PhD in archaeology and human evolution
Thinking same thing...
I thought that was Bob Hoskins.
Hahaha
It's well known even from their own histories that the Norse sailors just had a general idea of where they were going, and would often make land in places quite far off their intended destination. Like the wrong islands in the Orkneys and Hebrides for instance! It's very possible that they were heading off somewhere on a viking and ended up saying 'ah well, lets carry on a while longer Svein?' 'aye ok Thorkel'
New exciting vids on the way, just couldn't resist sharing this juicy nugget!
Love your videos Stefan!
The juicy nugget was the footage of Portugal you used in the video. Also, peixinho is pronounced more like "pay sheen you".
Stefan, just a possible idea for a future video. Paleo crescent blades found in the western Great Basin and into the southern Central Valley of California arrived with the first people entering North America. They have been found with typical fluted Clovis points in many areas, and their use was never fully understood. Then, like the fluted Clovis points, they disappear from the archaeological record during the Younger Dryas. Although Clovis style blades have never been found in Siberia, there is evidence that Siberians did use crescent shaped blades for hunting waterfowl. If you're interested in knowing more please drop me a line. BTW, this video was very well done as are all of your videos.
Love these!
Hay stefan have you read about the hypothesis that a Viking fleet was blown off course and landed in Central American and had contact with the early mayans this could have been a stop off of so on the return journey
Faskinating. I love the way you inject enthusiasm into curiosity. It communicates the passion for research. Looking forward to hearing more discoveries from there.
Digging all the cool production value stuff you been adding! Animations, transitions, etc are all very engaging. I also like the sit-and-talk stuff, but both have their own strengths.
It really does look very good! Looking forward to seeing more of Stefan's stuff like this.
Yes I agree, love both
How about, Phoenician, Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans.
It wouldn't be too surprising if it was the vikings, I swear they got everywhere
One of these days a mars rover is going to find an abandoned longship
It’s because the cold and the dark. As a Swede the winter is fucking unbearable at times, so I completely understand the Vikings sailing down to the mediterrainian to get some sun
@@joeljanssonhernstrom1819 A proud tradition that has carried over to the Swedes of today.
they already found ones on Europa and Io.
Those mice are azorable! I'll see myself out.
Made me laugh! 😋
And so you should. Tut-tut…
Funny as hell. 🎃 Ha, ha, ha ...
No, do stay! You are booked through thursday night.
How did we know humans brought them. Might have made tiny sailing boats themselves.
If someone was living on those islands for about 400-500 years, there has to be physical evidence (tools, burial mounds etc).
For some reason I just love those weird sources archeologists use. You look at some pollen, poo, and mice genes, and discover something about the history of humanity. Isn't that cool.
P.S. Tropical Vikings 😱
In a way, or to me as an aspiring geologist, those seem like the most scientifically sound avenues of information gathering 😀
Archeologists are just forensic historians my dude
paleontologists are the same way but more so. If you have an unsolvable problem, involving the Earth, some paleontiologist should be able to solve it.
Super cool. Here's a triple thumb for all geologists and paleontologists. 👍👍👍
Just think wrap around shades centuries before Oakley
I had the privilege of living on the isle of Terceira in the Azores for 6 months a decade ago. It was still believed then that there was no arrival before the 1400s. I always felt there was something ancient there. Strange vibes and energy I've never felt elsewhere, and I wasn't a woo-woo person. Incredible place.
The azores are the most beautiful place i have visited. The unique climate and geology allow for the most perfect scenery imaginary. The fauna under water is also absolutely stunning, it feels like you can see almost everything the atlantic has to offer in just one place. Hearing about the amazing history now has made the place even more special to me. I can`t recommend enough to travel to the azores, and the neat part is, that they are almost exactly between the states and europe.
Thank you for the great video as always, keep up the good work, you are one of my favorite creators.
I did research the islands some years ago for a potential trip. I think I dropped it because of the cost. The things that I liked was the scenery there and lack of tourist traps. I had to search a lot because it wasn't the typical tourist destination for us here in Norway.
As a Azorean, in which knows the Azores was always a backwards place, left out in history and society and that people had no idea it existed. Its nice hearing such things and our recent "discovery".
Imma gunna take me cat and find de mice . . . .
@@Kulumuli well, according to this video it might have always been a typical tourist destination for Norwegians ;)
Scandinavians(Swedes particularly) have traded with Portugal as far back as at least the bronze age, far earlier than the viking era. Our ships went down there laden with amber, and probably other trade goods, and returned with tin for making bronze, again also probably with other trade goods. How did we learn bronze making without tin mines of our own? From the Egyptians we traded with, and then we improved the technology for tool making, the egyptians could only make big blocky stuff like doors, and we returned and traded our improvement to them.
And there has been contact between Britain and Iberia since long before recorded history. Any boat could have been swept across to the Azores from anywhere from North Africa to Scandinavia.
They found runstones in portugal !! Near by a Coopper mine .
So cool and bizarre to have a stefan milo video on my home islands!
Haven't seen it all yet, but just a little piece of Folklore from Corvo and Flores (folklore as i can't say i have seen this referenced/written down anywhere), but, suposedly, the first portuguese that landed in Corvo, found a wooden statue/human figure pointing West. As a kid, i always thought of this legend as some kind of hint as to who might have crossed the islands before the tugas, maybe the phoenicians or someone else ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Anyways, still can't believe you made a video on the islands, and even though i'm still somewhat sceptical about the recent findings, i'm sure i'll love this video as i do all your other ones, thank you!
Super interesting. Do you know where can i read more on this?
Thats really cool, where'd you gear that story?
@@agustinaguero8163
Look up "Tale of the equestrian statue of Corvo Island". It appears to be a continuation of an earlier Phoenician myth. Look for "Timelines: A Phoenician Fable".
TH-cam keeps removing comments that have links in them, so just search for the quoted text. I took it from the titles of the articles.
@@earthknight60 thank you very much
I've heard some of these stories as well in my search for evidence that the Azores may have been a Phoenician colony and the source for the Atlantis tales.
I am in an anthropology class and your channel is gold! I will talk to my teacher about you!
Before 'Kilroy' , there was Ragnar : "Ragnar was here" ✌
Fun fact: Many Viking inscriptions were exactly like this. "Erik was here too", "Sven is stupid", "Bjørn can write runes", "Helga has big ***"
@@rtlgrmpf we all love Helga
And Ragnar said, "Go west young man" with the statue.
and if you don't believe that, some crazzy thic shield maiden gunna gut ya!
Next discovery how the Vikings came to traded in Indonesia
Fascinating, always enjoy Stephan’s talks! Also love the plastic spoon, a kind of iconic item from earlier broadcasts!
Now I've got the GIlligan's Island theme playing in my head as I imagine a boat full of vikings intending on a simple three-hour tour but ending up stranded instead. Hopefully they had a professor in the group, but I'm guessing there were no girls hence their absence.
With Gilligan, the berserker, too....
Viking navigation was pretty much getting lost and stumbling onto land, given that the Norse lacked all forms of navigation instruments
If they stayed there it may have been off and on as staging and resupplying bases for raids into the Mediterranean. No point in staying there if there's no one to plunder, really
With „Ég kem alveg af fjöllum“ you have compelled me to leave my first youtube comment ever. Well played, sir! Excellent channel - really ruining my productivity like all the best ones do. Cheers from Iceland!
Disappointed that what was skipped is that Vikings sailed to the Mediterranean, and their northern mice thus could have migrated with them. There were Vikings who arrived in Iberia.
Yeah, but that would be known, if those genes spread to iberia? BUT norwegian sailors could easily have been at the islands between 15th century and now, and mice came there like that?
The Norwegian Crusade DID stay a couple nights here and there in Iberia.
My guess is that the mice are remnants from crusader-viking trips.
@@fredriks5090 could be, but there has been countless, countless norwegian ships there, aside from crusaders too. And countless portugese ships have been in Norway over the centuries. They love our "klippfisk". So much so that people have noticably darker hair and eyes in many of the coastal towns here, versus the innland
@@HansenFT Everyone loves salt cod.
The idea is that the mice population on the island is likely to be the first population of mice there. In other words, if Northern mice had arrived after the Portugese. They would not have settled.
I love the idea that Vikings were in the Azores. However, both Terceira and Santa Maria were occupied by soldiers during WWII to build the British and American bases there. That could account for Type F mice. Supplied for both bases came from the UK. At the end of the war, the US moved to Terceira and the UK left. Americans are still maintaining the bases at Lajes today.
There's a yet to be discovered tapestry on one of those Islands, depicting the journeys 🏖🏖of "Halftanson The Consistent"
It begins by showing his war chief explaining to him, that he needs to use acquired vacation time or lose it, and ends with an Hawaiian shirt wearing 🌺 sunburned ☀️ Hal on a sandy Azores beach with his 3 Irish slaves🍀
you forgot the fruity drinks
We obviously have the same general take on history.
I love how the narrator's demeanor gets more and more friendly. At 6:00 he's just suddenly dressed down and inside. I expected him to be broadcasting from a bubble bath by the end 😂
been spending most my life living in a viking’s paradise 😔💪
better than a gangsta's paradise
@@I_Have_The_Most_Japanese_Music whats the difference
@@Ksfidkdks One has hats with horns on them.
I subscribed because of your reaction to old atlases. That type of enthusiasm is admirable.
I love the dedication to the spoon mic. Legend.
Yeah, so can someone please explain the plastic spoon? Thanks!
@@bobmcl2406 in his old videos he used a cheap little mic and he taped it to a plastic spoon.
@@Casmaniac thank you! Now I am in on the joke too....
Same!
Love his spoon game.
Its actually an interesting phenomenon.
Go look at fleccas talks.
HMmmmmm I wonder who was the first.
My bet is on an ancient Irish monk.
wonderfully interesting. A paper I read a couple of years back proved that the Norse only settled permanently in places where they could find bog iron. Find the bog, and you'll find the settlement close by.
Stefan I’ve recently fell in love with your channel and even cooler we went to the same University!! From someone with no real prior interest in archaeology, keep it up dude
Being from Terceira Island, it's amazing to see videos being made on the History of the Azores! Thank you!
I love hearing about secondary evidence. It opens up so many doors into the past!
Another fantastic video. Thank you very much indeed. Just a little note about Lagoa do Peixinho... The best way I can describe the pronunciation of "Peixinho" would be "pay-sheen-yo". "Peixe" means fish, and the "-inho" bit is diminutive (hence, Ronaldinho means little Ronaldo). Lagoa, unsurprisingly, means Lake. And "do" is a contraction of "de" and "o" (of the). So, rather cutely, Lagoa do Peixinho means Lake of the Little Fish or Little Fish Lake. Kind of sweet, no?
Stefan, you do great work, please keep it up.
I would offer another possible scenario, it may be that like the Portuguese, any Northmen, West Africans, or Mediterranean peoples who stumbled upon the Azores found it devoid of humans, and as such there was no gold, silver or manufactured goods to plunder or trade for. Those cultures may have then used the Azores as a place to stop and make repairs to their ships, take on fresh water, resupply their stores of fish that they could salt and then move on to better hunting grounds. The Azores had value to the Portuguese to be the first permanent stepping stone in their Empire building.
I would suggest as to why there is little evidence of infrastructure or other objects is because if there was a reduction in pollen, they were making wooden huts.
They were burning wood into charcoal for fuel, and technology was so advanced when they arrived they forgot how to start certain things like smithing from scratch. Instead, I presume they would of traded things on the island for tools.
There would be plenty fish for them to eat, there’s no doubt a culture deep rooted to seafaring knew how to fish with traps and basic wooden rods, using plant fibre as a line.
This video seemed like a 9/10, but the addition of a cow defecating really helped to squeeze out that last point.
Nice
Long before the establishment of the kingdom of Portugal, the inhabitants of this territory were already sailing in the Atlantic Ocean. The Portuguese were not born suddenly sailing, but were already sailing prior to the concept of discoveries. Many islands and territories were known before by fishermen.
Good point. :)
I have a whole box of plastic spoons in my house that I never use for anything. When you are in the San Luis Valley stop by and I'll give them to you!
Those images of the towns and landscape make the Azores look like a beautiful place.
There are still a lot of Canadians that will mention the Vikings landed around what is present day Vermont in general long before Columbus who didn't actually set foot on continental land, but they were totally unaware of L'Anse aux Meadows when I added that to the conversation. Learning history is an on going process. This segment was part of my continual learning. Thank you.
Its funny that you mention Colombus, but after mainland João Vaz Corte-Real (a Azorean) that landed in Canada first 19 years before Colombus.
Definitely a cool mystery. I know there's evidence Vikings (and others) inhabited nearby Madeira too.
I remember you said you wanted to do a video on the Canary Islands with the Guanches. Can't wait!
An episode on the Guanches would be amazig!
@@valeriavagapova You mean, it would be Amazigh :)
I think they found the "northern" mice in parts of Madeira too
If only they didn't think writing was for nerds, we'd know a whole lot more about the Viking exploits...
Might've been them Irish monks
As a biologist I learnt that there is no rodents such as mice on iceland nowadys.
Hi from Germany and I really enjoy your creative, educating channel.
LOL... Iceland is on planet earth. Yes there are mice, and rats in Iceland... and plenty of them ;-)
There is no mosquito in Iceland for some reason, can't breed in the constantly changing weather... or something like that... but we have plenty of other biting insects though.
... sounds like your sources were written by the same people that wrote the Geography book that was being taught in Denmark when I moved there as a child. It stated that Iceland had no trees and was mostly tundra.
My teacher wouldn't have it when I, as an 11 year old, tried to correct that error stating that though there were no large forests in Iceland... there were trees.... and that there was barely any tundra in Iceland.
My teacher would not have it... LOL :o)
@@sgjoni there is some planted forests now.. and there was once.. but you vikings chopped them down.. as to the mice.. maybe sue means no mice before humans brought them
@@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367 If that is what he meant then it is in no contradiction to what is claimed in the video and would be right. at least according to what was taught in school here when I was a kid, that the only mammal native to Iceland (i.e. from before human settlement) is the Arctic Fox.
..."you Vikings"... I can't quite take the honour... ;-) ...sure, at least 50% of my ancestors were Norse and some of them Vikings... but at least 40% were from the British isles... slaves or Norse Gails... and about 10% a mixed bag of mainly North-West European (Sámi/German/Dutch/French/Basque.. etc.) and possibly even some American based on DNA connections and traces... possibly from the era of the Norse settlement in Greenland though I suspect it is from the 18th-17th century.
Thank you, Stefan Milo, for making and sharing this excellent video.
A Southerly wind would blow you Northward. Great channel tho. Looking forward to the next vid.
The cow dropping a deuce was a nice touch
Hi 👋 Stefan, if you haven’t already done so, you might want to check out a professor Nuno Ribeiro from the Azores who has been showing evidence of ancient exploration settlement of the Azorean archipelago
Great detective work and presentation
Love your channel! My dad was born in Pico and my mom in Terceira. I visited both islands with them in 2000 and loved it. I've always wondered about the deeper history, so it's very intriguing to hear of the research being done to determine what all occurred before Europeans arrived. Can't wait to visit again and do some poking around myself, LOL. Maybe some of my relatives can share some lore and myth with a peek into the past that can point me in the right direction (I wish... b
ut fun to imagine!) Does make complete sense, along with the science on the mice, sheep, etc., that people were there long before those who arrived in the 15th century.
Please chase this down from another comment: "...but just a little piece of Folklore from Corvo and Flores (folklore as i can't say i have seen this referenced/written down anywhere), but, suposedly, the first portuguese that landed in Corvo, found a wooden statue/human figure pointing West. As a kid, i always thought of this legend as some kind of hint as to who might have crossed the islands before the tugas, maybe the phoenicians or someone else ¯\_(ツ)_/¯..."
A southerly wind blows south to north. I believe you meant that it was a northerly wind that possibly allowed/encouraged the Norse to sail to the Azores.
Great stuff! Really enjoyed this. Also, there are ancient Greek records that seem to indicate that they sailed as far as the U.K. ... and possibly Iceland. So, possibly they set foot in the Azores too.
The Greeks indeed came to British Isles, the very name 'British' comes from Greek naming. They came for Tin and met my ancestors, I'm Welsh btw;)
I am NORWEGIAN and know that Vikings have lived in south Lebanon. I have been there, fare into the country at 6-700 meters hight.
Why Vikings? Why not monks from Ireland, they did discover Iceland before the Vikings after all lol Great video btw.
Another great video. Its pretty compelling. The Norse did wander around and they were looking for places to colonise (Newfoundland, Greenland, Ireland, Northern France. However, very isolated and small collonies, are very vulnerable to decay and disaster; inbreading, disease, a plaue brought by longed for vistors, clan feuds, natural disaters, shipwreck etc.
The mouse evidence is compelling. If looking for archeological evidence, how about looking for evidence on the 'clade f' islands underwater, in the splendid natural harbours? I guess sea levels have changed?
BTW your explanation of a change in prevailing wnd direction confused me; a southerly wind blows FROM the south and takes you north?
Well, the Norse didn't inbread in Eastern Europe, or especially in France where they married local Frankish nobles and basically became French, giving birth to Normandy. But in the Azores, yeah, not much chance of that.
I'd like to express to you just how much I appreciate your channel and the time and research efforts you put into what is among the most valuable contents on the tubes. This is why Al Gore gave us the interwebs to begin with. If I ever win the lottery or inherit a large trust fund from an as of yet unknown rich distant relative, you can be sure you'll be first in line for tax avoidance scheme donations. My day is always improved when I find an alert for a new video from you. Thank you, dude. Truly.
Man-bear-pig. Last episode.
Just heard you on AtlasPros new video, cool to see you working with other youtubers! I hope some of his subscribers realize how great your videos are and you can get some more recognition
Well balanced approach, Stefan. IMO the most important evidence is the dating of sediments really, because *Irish* mice could perfectly have been brought in later times by Basque or even Portuguese sailors (Basques and other peoples from the Bay of Biscay massively exploited the Irish fisheries and jumped from there to Newfoundland... and even to Iceland, where they were massacred). The dates are clearly Viking Era and thus it must have been the Norse.
It's also more or less known that *Normans* (you know: those semi-civilized neo-Vikings who spoke French) were involved in some early African explorations: they were present in the early conquest and looting of Canary islands and some speculate they may have explored West Africa all the way to the Gulf of Guinea.
These Azorean Vikings must have been in constant contact with Europe and eventually decided that there was more to loot and plunder elsewhere, that subsistance farming and fishing in remote islands was of little interest compared with all the looting opportunities that the Norman campaigns to Britain, Italy and "the Orient" provided.
Alternatively (and this only further archaeology can discern), they may have lived in some of the islands all the way to the Portuguese conquest. You say that the Portuguese claimed that the island were uninhabited but the reality is that the Portuguese did not "claim" much and that the islands were known to Europeans before the Age of Exploration, being cartographed in the famous Catalan Atlas (1375) and even earlier in the Medici maps, but mostly ignored and only "rediscovered" later on with various accounts of how that happened conflicting each other.
Wine, genocide, and taxes? What are you looking at?
"the Orient" = ?
Love the natural relaxed commentary style. New subscriber here for sure! Love it , look forward to the test of your channel!
fabulous vid, as always! Mysterious that the Norse packed it up after a short time in (at latest) the 12th C, while the climate wasn't too band. And the Azores is even more mysterious. Maybe they were just into trading and raiding, or otherwise heading home. Certainly many individual Norsemen stayed in Britain and married into the local culture, but as a group they didn't create a permanent colony in Britain, nor in Russia where they were known to have explored. Been there, done that--like the Chinese, who explored as far afield as Africa but never more than as a curiosity.
Actually, the "norsemen" dominated several regions of what is now the UK for a long time and a large part of them integrated into the rest of society... and let's not forget who William I was.
The Maps are very interesting. In 1513 Ottoman admiral and cartographer Piri Reis drew up maps showing The Azores and Antarctica among other places, not "discovered" until much later than his era. In the margins of his maps he writes his maps were copies of much older maps taken form the Library of Alexandria. How much older these source maps were we have no idea. The maps in this video may have the same origins as the Piri Reis maps.
Nordic mice could have hitched a ride on a Portuguese vessel because the Portuguese traded in Northern Europe. Also some Scots, Englishmen and bretons also inhabited the Azores. Mice from Scotland could easily have stowed away in their belongings. Need evidence of Viking habitation to put forward a theory with confidence.
Not only just a few also, most Azorean people are descendents of migrants from France, Flanders and Northern Europe, who came in number to mainland Portugal and the islands to settle the recently conquered land in the late middle ages. By chance, it is much more likely that a ship from one of these places stranded those mice there, than a Viking presence which lacks any physical evidence
5:47
He specifically says further physical evidence is needed to support the theory in earnest.
The mice link to Vikings is absolutely brilliant. You, sir, have earned yourself a subscriber. +1
Epic wholesome chungus 2000
Really interesting, reminds me of the studies on genetics of the Polynesian rat and when it was introduced to New Zealand.
Stefan, it was about time for a new video! Full marks.
When the climate cooled in the mini ice age (1300-1850) the seas became more turbulent and the Viking ships are low and light, perfect for calm seas, but no so good in stormy weather. So it could be they just could not keep up the connections they had before the climate changed.
I couldn’t find any discussion of the seas being more turbulent during the Little Ice Age. However, the LIA may well have been caused in part by variations in the North Atlantic Oscillation, one pole of which is centered on the Azores. The NAO influences the location of the tropical rain belt, which could potentially have caused extended drought conditions in the Azores. I’m just speculating, as there seems not to be much published on paleoclimatic changes in the Azores. In any case, if there had been an extended period of human habitation in the Azores prior to the arrival of the Portuguese, it seems likely there would have been more evidence of it so far. TBD.
There is some Proto-Germanic U106 Y DNA in Portugal, so some coastal North Sea Germanic-Scandinavians must have got down that way. Since they were getting over to the Shetlands, Orkneys, Faroes, etc in the 450s CE and on in rowed keel ships, then later in upgraded ships with sails, it's not too surprising they may have gotten to the Azores as well.
southerly winds don't blow you south, they blow you north
I am glad you made that point! I felt I was going to have to, but I’m glad you beat me to it!
Exactly what I was going to say, Stefan do u have a response to this?
That’s the point: The climate was warmed on the islands.
Too vulnerable to inbreeding!
I came here to say this too. Also, far less significantly (and possibly semantically), but there are a number of islands which have a better claim to being the middle of the Atlantic than the Azores. Tristan de cunha, ascension island etc, there’re loads that are more remote.
There is reason to doubt the Portuguese accounts that the islands were deserted or not previously inhabited. There were doctrines from multiple kings to destroy evidence of prior expansion into new lands
I want to learn how to get as high as Milo and still manage to talk normally.
High.. as in high voice? Right?
I guess there's a reason he lives in Potland, Oregon.
Smoke more bro
Bro's high AF, for real
Stay faded, tolerance gets high
According to Judith Jesch in "the viking diaspora", some islands in the North Atlantic were used only to store sheep, but they were not inhabited. Maybe these islands were used for that, and that can explain why there is no signs of settlers (buildings, and other archeological finds)
its obvious, the mice discovered the Azores using their vikings to transport them .
Given the location of the Azores it seems to me it would be a perfect depot island for the Atlantic. In the same way the US has bases all over the pacific islands. It would make sense to me for a sea faring people exploring the Atlantic to show up to the island, set up a few pastures, and leave sheep (or whatever) there. There would be no predators and plenty of food, so you could essentially just leave the animals to eat and breed. That way any ship could swing by and slaughter a bunch of sheep for a re-supply. It may have never been properly "settled", but it could have extended the range of early exploration/trade.
Mushroom spores are a poor argument. Grifola frondosa and Flammulina velitipes are on both sides of the Pacific as two examples. Genetics show no distintion, they have always been the same circumequitorial populations. Highly cosmopolitan due to it being dormant and the size of dust. Samples from the top of Everest yield viable spores from all over the world. How many goats get dragged up there?
There are mushroom spores on top of Everest?
Its in the snow. You can find fungi to the edge of space not just spores. You have to go pretty far up to be able to take the cover off a sterile Petri dish and not get spores or yeasts.
@@napalmholocaust9093 Interesting
Certainly got around them vikings , seamanship & good navigation. My ancestors were Vikings who settled in Normandy to become the Normans & then southern England
1:32 why dont they scour antarctica or other places that show up in those famous weird maps where they shouldnt be?
Fascinating🤔
To make a sail for a Viking ship you need around 2000 sheep. People don`t realise how advanced and expensive Viking ships was in the medieval society. Norse excelled at trade and warfare but this changed when the old culture were abandoned for the imported abraham religion and the more stationary Faudal lifestyle. Also the Hanseatic league would gradually take over the old Norse trade networks. To be isolated on this islands, would be hard to maintain capable Atlantic seagoing ships. Contact with the rest of the world would also be harder.
My guess is that The Azores became to isolated for a small population to thrive as the Viking network declined. But they probably enjoyed life for a while.
Wil be interesting to see if they find more.
btw subscribed👍
The real question is, why were the Norse randomly traveling around the Atlantic with sheep on their boats? 🤔 Not judging .. What happens on the Azores, stays on the Azores I guess. 🤣
Well, vikings transported horses. Sheep are smaller and viking ships also had woolen sails. You would want a few sheep around in case it was necessary to mend them and wool doesn't grow on trees...🤣🤣🤣
@@zephyrandboreas It went totally over your head, huh? Go ask your dad what I meant.
@@moemuggy4971
It was a funny ha ha, but you posed a question and he answered it. Your joke probably didn’t go over his head.
To their defence; -they only brought the pretty ones along on their adventures. Just in case if they didn't find some innocent people to molest.
I found myself thinking about you while in a waking dream, your name went through my head as “Stefan De Milo”, and then my brain obliged by conjuring up an image of the Venus De Milo with you in the place of the lady and it gave me a jolly chuckle.
Cheers 😅
Fantastic videos, by the way.
Look Ragnar, what a beautiful island
Hrulf, the skin on my face is coming off from the intense sunburns, please don’t make us stay here for another year, I can’t guarantee the crew won’t leave their axes in your skull
Busy editing the important parts of this video in the background, being sure to get best 'ploppage'! Your efforts are greatly appreciated.
“Slash and Burn” sounds exactly like the type of farming a Viking would be into, until you explain to him what’s actually being slashed and burned.
Sounds like the title of a song from Amon Amarth. 😃
The Norse would NOT burn entire forests. Wood was their main construction material. They would have cut down useable trees (Oak, Pine, Birch, etc) then possibly burned remaining brush.
Im sure you mention this in the video but the original name of Corvo was the island of the statue because there's multiple reports of a statue of s man on a horse on a hill, pointing west. It was removed and given to the king if Portugal. Theres also structures on one of the islands that a gew scientists believe are pre-Portugues. Interesting fact,Flores and Corvo are actually part of the north American continental plate and Madeira is on the African plate so Portugal proper actually exists on there continents
Could have been Irish monks, they beat the Norse to Iceland, why not the Azores too?
"Become a monk, shave the top of your head and expirience exciting world of adventure travel!"
This is really good! I love seeing your production grow. Reminds me a lot of Johnny Harris.
Mice rule the world. We just live in it.
I'm Portuguese... and our history says there wasn't anyone there when we arrived but we all know the evidences are there from early settlements with a thousand maybe more years but for us they were northen Iberians!
Thank You for sharing. Loved it
Almost as intriguing is why you're holding what appears to be some sort of plastic spoon together with your microphone... 🙂
Norse are a good candidate, but Basque fishermen may be more likely. It’s also well-known that Irish missionaries were sailing far and wide in curraghs in the early medieval period and even predated the Norse in Iceland (the Norse referred to them as the _Papar_ ).
As for why the islands were uninhabited when the Portuguese arrived, I think your hunches are correct. From the tephrochronological record of São Miguel alone, it is known that at least two confirmed explosive (VEI 4) eruptions of the silicic caldera and stratovolcano on the island known as Furnas took place in the early-to-middle medieval period, before Portuguese “discovery”, one at ~1170±100 CE, and another earlier one at ~840±100 CE. Such eruptions would deposit locally thick blankets of ash on fields of grain and grazing pastures alike, as well as tainting water supplies, and even after the Portuguese settlement, these eruptions were responsible for famine and outbreaks of epidemics. Oceanic volcanic islands such as those of the Azores are also at high risk of flank collapse, where a steep, coastal portion of the quickly extruded and gravitationally-unstable lavas and tuffs that comprises these islands sloughs off due to seismic activity, creating an underwater landslide that displaces a large amount of seawater and creates tsunamis that can rise hundreds of meters, locally. There isn’t specific evidence of such an event in the period before Portuguese settlement, but it would be prudent to look for it. Such a flank collapse event on Mt. Etna in Sicily around 8.3 ka bp is thought to have been responsible for the utter destruction and drowning of the Neolithic settlement of Atlit-Yam in modern-day Israel, for example.
Let's get real, vikings were everywhere and didn't even care that they basically ruled the world
didnt reach my country...NZ
That you know of@@heminuiraho8235
Ruling the world is an odd way of describing Vikings blending in with the cultures they found, almost everywhere they dropped anchor. They became French in Normandy, Native Canadian in Newfoundland, Russian in Moscow, Sicilian in Sicily. Very much the prototype of immigrants diving in the melting pot.
@@craigbhill we been a few places too, much larger area though...the Pacific. But we actually blended in with the environment, So we ruled a world much greater and far less forgiving. But that just feels like I'm joining you in boasting. I'm not, I'm relaying facts. I am one eighth Sicilian though so you still may speak truth.
Absolutely fascinating, thanks very much Stefan!
For no special reason, archeology fascinates me, specially when talking about human migrations around the world. Love the mice saying "e ai"! It's our "what's up", in Brazil. 😁
Absolutely LOVE your channel. Do you happen to have a podcast? *crosses fingers*
Any evidence of mice in l'Anse au Meadow?
Surprisingly sound and editing intermixed with a motley fellow with a visible microphone in the middle of a forest.
7:24 THE PORTUGUESE
Silly billy
Love/Hate this kind of stuff because it keeps me up at night digging deeper. Cheers, Mate…