Rear spool holders ONLY make sense if you have a farm with racks spaced apart so you can access the rear (MOST ppls setups aren't like that). I can only assume these companies test in wide open engineering labs where they can just walk around the machine while developing. Those are the only things that make any sense to me.
This is how the conversation goes when a company designs a 3D printer: “Ok, printer looks great! Now, where shall we put the spool holder?” “How about here on the side, it will have easy access.” “What!? And ruin how beautiful this machine looks?! Never! We will hide it in the back! If consumers don’t like it they can just make their own!”
I feel like this was the strategy with exhaust systems for cars made in the 80s and 90s, specifically from GM - figure out where it fits _after_ the main design
well from what i read ( i dont own one yet waiting for delivery) theres only a handful of filaments that are not compatible. mostly the carbon fiber ones @@Geoff_W
With regards to the filament holder on the back, and companies mimicking Bambu Labs. It’s like when other phone companies mimic Apple. Apple said “People don’t want the 3.5mm headphone jack so we removed it”. And all of the other phone companies did it too. Personally I really wish they had the headphone jack back.
@@cameltoastI didn't say anything about Apple's reasons - I was commenting on why other manufacturer's followed suit. In any case, yes you're right, Apple wanted to sell Airpods, and Samsung wants to sell their buds, too. That doesn't change the fact that removing the jack both reduces cost and allows for a thinner phone. And Apple taking that step gave cover to the other manufacturers.
The Qidi X plus 3 and X max 3 are awesome machines. As a mechanical engineer, not a hobbyist, the X plus 3 and X max 3 are the best machines for me and what I use them for.
Same here, Had my Qidi X+3 since the re release and it's been great. Eats high end engineering material for breakfast. The heated chamber is the best. Didn't copy that for any cheap bambu crap.
@@riverracer while the QUDI has a lot of features that have gotten my attention for sure i still hear mixed reviews. I think it’s a bit more polished then the k1 series for sure. But I also know that Bambu isn’t cheap, and isn’t crap by any stretching. And we likely wouldn’t currently have these offerings for any manufacturer if it weren’t for Bambu either. Are they perfect machines? No but the speed and quality of the majority of the prints speak for themselves. The reliability has also so far proven that they can withstand pretty constant use. And while parts are only available from Bambu they aren’t overly expensive. From my standpoint as a business I just buy the most common parts and keep them in stock, which I always did with my anycubic, prusa and creality printers as well. I can say that out of all my Bambu printers I’ve only completely broken 1 nozzle and had 1 unrecoverable clog in a year and a half between 8 machines. Finally the only bragging rights creality and QUDI have are larger build volume and lower price, and the QUDI has the added active chamber heater. What will happen when Bambu releases its next gen flagship printers this year? We can only guess but according to Bambu not only will they be better then the x and p series but also offered in larger build volume. What that really means is anyone’s guess but I can say for sure I will be buying the larger build volume Bambu printer. I may buy the QUDI x3 max or k1 max buy creality needs to address the resonance artifacts in their x y before I’ll buy a k1. And everyone I know has said the QUDI is slightly better then the k1 as well and I take their opinion seriously.
I got the k1 max and its a great machine. i haven't had any real issues at all so far in the 2 months I have it. the spool holder i grant you can be a pain. the app is a pain in the bolox altogether but the functional part of the app to monitor prints does the job
I recently purchased a Creality K1C and it came with a model that allows you to print a side spool holder. Additional screws came with it to install the side spool holder. The filament sensor also has enough cable to allow you to place it on the side. But I did have to print a top riser to stop the chain thing from banging on the top cover. Also replaced the Bowden tube with a Capricorn tube and printed a holder to glue the rubber nozzle cleaner onto. I can now use any PEI bed plate, than the one that came with the printer. Change is slowly happening.
*aESTHetics. That's the word that means how something looks. Ascetic means "characterized by or suggesting the practice of severe self-discipline and abstention from all forms of indulgence, typically for religious reasons."
It seems much easier to improve on existing designs than research and develop independently. It is both a boon and a curse because, without the necessity to spur development, it becomes incremental. On the plus side, while being so close in design, if something goes wrong you have a general start point to fix it.
I prefer the qidi max over the bambu AFTER I made some modifications to eliminate a few issues. I try to stay away from the which printer is best discussion, and just roll with what works for what I'm doing. It's all too apple vs android for me lol. Hope you do a full review on the qidi soon as I'm interested to see if you have the same issues I've had to find solutions for.
Fellow X-Max 3 user here! Mine's been a nightmare, but the customer service from Qidi is bar none. Easily the best customer service I've ever had. My printer works now and it works well! I agree with the apple vs android debate. Like, if you asked me my honest answer, the Bambu Lab probably is the better machine, but I don't like closed garden systems. Love me open source!
My Bambu X1c had many issues with filament not retracting to the AMS and required me to constantly have to reach back, uncouple the PTFE, gently pull the filament by hand, and then hit the "try again" button on the screen which then worked fine at that point. This was painful though as it caused multi-material prints to basically be impossible, needing this hand intervention at every single filament-to-AMS retraction. You mentioned the printers needing more clearance for the PTFE tube that leads into the tool head; you are absolutely correct! I designed a bracket that raised the glass up by 60mm and I pulled the tube out of that little bracket that held it down to the cable chain so it could naturally position itself.... problems totally solved! I've never had one more issue since. The cause of most Bambu and similar printer problems is simply the glass being too close to the tool head and causing undue pressure on the system. Alleviate this pressure and you have a near-perfect printer.
I like the idea of the Qidi spool holder. Throw in some dry silica gel and you have a nice way to keep the spool dry if left on the printer for a while. It's just in the wrong place!
The glass top didn’t cause any feed problems (because I got to it first, I guess), but it DID cause my tube to get worn through from rubbing on the glass. I have additional clips installed now, as well as spacers for the top.
Glad to see you move the K1 Max without breaking the door. :) Couldn't resist. Creality now includes a side mount STL but you are totally right. Not sure the engineers design decision on these. The PFTE tubes wear and eventually cause issues. The Creality App is horrible.
You are correct, a saying I use is "Competition creates Innovation". I also think it will drive some prices down for these nicer fast core xy printers too, although I would love to see a large print bed with close to these same speed specs
At least for Bambu I’d guess they designed for an AMS setup, and then looked at how to best mount just a single spool and keep within that setup. And they are far more geared towards Print Farms than a person with a single printer setup, which mounting a spool elsewhere than the back takes up more space in the Farm setup which would detract from sales to Print Farms. So do you cater to the most likely one time buy group , or the ones that will be buying multiple units and more over time? As for the space above the extruder, there are all kind of manufacturing and shipping designs that go into having more space which takes more material and different machining setups and change up shipping space in shipping containers.
RIGHT. They were "first" for consumer coreXY as far as what we are seeing. Yes Creality had the absolute lack luster Ender 5, but that isn't in the same space as the Bambu Labs printers are.
The spool holder issue seems weird to me, because I have always printed with my filament feeding from a dryer box. Even if I don't need to have the dryer box on to dry the filament at the time, it's still in there and protected. I would never even consider just having the PLA or PETG spool out in the air while printing for many hours or even days.
With the Qidi's though, that rear spool holder is a breeze to pull off, swap your filament and thread it through wherever is most comfortable for you. You don't have to try to thread it while it's still on the printer. Of course, once the filament is in the holder you still have to put it on the back again, but at least all you have to do then is just thread it through the intake of the printer., and that's still the same issue as every other rear mounted system.
@@Thierry080 Yeah, that is what I actually do in practise. I was referring to the bit in the video where Uncle Jessy is making the job of dealing with the dry box located on the back of the Qidi WAY harder than it needs to be.
This rear spool holder mount approach is only suitable in particular environments (a print farm for example) but is a very bad choice for us, "normal" users ! It is a real pain. What were the designers of the Qidi x-max 3 thinking ?! Thank you uncle jesse for talking about this issue... I hope more manufacturers will seriously listen to their customers complaints and suggestions and implement the solutions rapidly !
Solid points! I do believe there is a lot of copying going around. The whole PTFE tube at the top thing seems to have started as a compromise that everyone just copied. Making the machine extra tall probably made a bunch of extra space on top that seemed like a waste, especially on an enclosed printer, so they probably made the decision to make it shorter and crunch the tube a bit. Also the rear spool thing is just dumb lol.
On my P1S, the lack of clearance to the glass top absolutely contributes to issues, where the ams wont pull filament back in. Adding a glass riser, combined with the new AMS behavior from the recent firmware update, seemed to have helped a lot though. But when i took off the glas top to install the riser, i saw a lot of while particles stuck to the glass. And a flat spot on the internal tube confirmed, that its rubbing against the glass to the point of disintegration. And PTFE dust is a serious issue!
I got 6 P1S and only use the rear holder on one of them and that's because the back is easily accessible due to its position and it doesn't need to be rotated either. The others all backed up to a wall. I printed some simple blocks that screw to the wall and screwed some off the shelf reel holders to them as a work around.
100% agreed, there should be a choice on filament roll mounting location. I actually dont like the side placement either, but I know many like it there. But how much cost would it add for any of these manufacturers building corexy to put a mount back, side or even just a longer piece of PTFE tube so i can run it to my location of choice ( filament dryer).
best thing i've ever done with my K1 was move the filament sensor to the side, and mounted my spool holder onto the wall right next to it... i tried using a side mount spool holder, but i noticed more waves and ringing in my prints... also some of the screws on the acrylic side panel started getting loose... when i removed it, it was only being held onto one screw instead of 3, and i had to tighten all of the other screws down again... crazy... so now it's on the wall, and i'm very happy with the machine...
Finally, someone mentioned my main complaint about these printers...the rear mounted spool holders. Even my Tiertime Up Box+ from almost10 years ago figured this out with one of the slickest side mount spool holders ever done.
Just remove the dry box of the Qidi, get a 50cm bit of PTFE tube to connect it and put the dry box on the table next to the printer. This way it's much more flexible and no one has to fiddle around at its back anymore.
I wound up removing all of the spool holders off my Bambu machines and mounted them directly on the wall next to the machine. Yes I still have to reach past the machine but it way easier to swap filament now even on my racks. Yeah the lower shelf printers kinda suck to swap but it’s still better then reaching to the back of the machine.
QIDI BigMac 3 - my steps 1. center 2. remove ptfe from extruder - clip filament 3. pull box off, drag filament out, open box and remove filament. 4. put new filament in box and pull out a bunch 5. route filament through ptfe to extruder 6. heat up extruder, run what's left of old fialment out, while pushing in new filament, push ptfe back into extruder. Got it pretty quick now, but still, total pain. The ONLY thing I missed about my ender 3
Most normal users that doesn't have a print farm won't their giant 3d printer in the middle of the living room where there is 360 degrees of access. Most of us put their 3d printers with the back facing the wall. it makes no sense to put the filament there unless someone can walk through wall. It really needs to stop
Agree 100% and would add that I don't want to have to install a separate app for every different brand of printer I own, so how about allowing third parties access to the API so we can have one app to manage our Creality, AnkerMake and Bambu printers. And I also don't particularly want to have to install an app to set up my printer, so give us a way to do it from either the front panel or via a web browser or PC interface. And spool holder mounts on BOTH sides of the printer so we can decide between left or right side mounts.
I am 100% with you. Just recently got our P1S and it was so terrible loading filament that I actually mounted the filament spool holder onto the wall so it was easier to use and you can also keep an eye on the filament incase of a snag or anything going wrong. I really hope this reaches the right the people and make a difference.
All 4 of my FDMS which are over a decade old are rear feed. My original Rhinox X4 , both my Ultimaker 2+ and Mini and my Big Box are all rear mounted. It was how they were done originally and only now are they starting to move them to different positions!
you can actually trace how bambulab got it's spool holder on the back, Ultimaker 2 was expensive so people developed Voron 3d printer, that printer became Voron Trident and that printer was later used during the development at Bambulab
I have to say, I don't have a problem with the rear-mounted spool holder on my P1S - because it's at the top. I don't have access to the rear or the left side, but it's pretty trivial to reach over the top and change the spool. If it was any lower, though, it'd be an absolute nightmare.
Never been a Creality fan, but your clip reminded me of a funny story. One of my father's coworkers was cheating on his literacy test by copying the answer sheet from the guy sitting next to him. He did such a fine job; he even copied the guy's name and put it on his answer sheet. A true story.
I agree the external spool mount could have been better. But I wouldn't call it the worst position. The rear mount minimizes filament drag through the feed tubes. I've experimented with alternative spool mount positions (including the side) and the way the tube bends and the length of the tube significantly increases the friction and can cause under-extrusion. I made my own mount and drybox solution that is both to the rear but shifted more towards the side (not directly behind the printer). I have easy access to the spool and it only adds about 50 mm of extra tube in the back. But it is a nearly straight path to the drybox. I would like to see a dedicated well-thought out drybox solution from Bambu next time.
Bambu IS expensive. It IS also 100% worth it if you, like me, found yourself spending years working on your printer more than actually printing things. I started with an Ender 3 pro back before Microcenter really carried them, then I moved on to a Sidewinder X2, and now I'm happy to just have my X1 Carbon and be able to just...print. From my pc, wirelessly, check the status on my phone, brilliant.
I feel you brotha - hundreds of hours effing with my ender 3's, only to get a qidi tech and it all just works out the gate. I shouldn't say all, but there is so much less to account for and adjust print to print.
Within the first week of owning my k1 max, I printed this awesome side spool holder mount (for the stock mount). it works fantastic! - I printed one for my bambu p1s as well, but I haven't installed it yet because I have an AMS and i usually print from that. - I don't get why they are on the back side of the printer where people can't reach at all.
have an X1C and I use the AMS and havent even bothered to mount the rear spool holder. I may get around to it if I print abrasives or tpu but not an issue personally.
This is so true. why would they copy absolutely everything and don't even try to solve some of the existing problems? Another point is the pricing. Why would I buy a printer that clearly is a copy of a bambulab and isn't even bigger or better for the same price (or even more) than the p1s? that's so dumb.
You are completely alone here. Personally I love shifting my printer to the edge of my shelf and half throwing my back out reaching around the thing every time I want to change filaments- it's the best!
"We would really rather sell to commercial interests... but our salespeople won't stop wanting to sell to individuals in homes, so we'll do what we can to make it so painful those individuals won't stay in 3D printing for long." I have one printer that does the back mount thing (old PowerSpec 2.0 3D printer), and it's annoying every time even with the revised mounts I printed.
I totally agree with you. Such big companies, the least they could have done is spend money on r&d and user experience. Even elegoo machines are beautiful but bad firmwares.
No, you are right. It’s ridiculous. I’m going to put mine whenever I can afford it on the floor under my desk since my desk is not by a wall for the spool holder. It’s like if manufacturer are in majority completely stupid with coming with their own improvements. Every now and then one get the Midas touch then it stops there.
Completely different concept. These are core xy with klipper for people that actually knows what they are doing bamboo is a very good product for someone that want everything they want out of the box. It's like iPhone and android phones.
Copying existing designs, trying to make them _cheaper,_ is pretty much the business model for most Chinese manufacturers. I'm told that there would be a bunch of factories making the same parts and assemblies, and unless the brand is Apple or Samsung, there's going to be someone selling same or very similar widgets on Alibaba. And there are no designers or engineers who can look at the design and say, "Hey, we can do better by doing this..." because they cost money.
The rear mount filament spool holder was done first by Ideaformer COBEES printer which by the way was an horrible printer that came out about 4 years ago
My voron 2.4 started with.a rear spool mount which i still hate with a passion so I am in the middle of building a ERCFv2 that i will use to move as much as i can to the top as I would love to build a sealed filament volume above the printer that can hold all six spools and feed the printer as directly as possible though managing all that feels like a big challenge, right now just getting the Ercf v2 up and working with all the changes to the print head would be it’s own success. Like i am a fan of the Prusa XL and it’s tool changer but I have a hard time believing they did much testing of TPU which for me at least requires me to circumvent their whole ptfe feed tube system and put the filament directly into the print head which feels like a design flaw. Tight ptfe tube radii and other sources of resistance like many of the contact style filament sensors seem to make nothing but trouble with softer/flex filaments and such.
Absolutely correct. Unbelievable that some geek punched these out without feedback. My BLX1C has and extended ptfe tube fed into the 4 way manifold along with the 2 AMS I have. The spool is on the top
Hi, since Bambu labs is hinting about a new flagship printer in 2024 - If I only want a reliable (ABS ASA Nylon TPU) closed "just work" printer and the current bed size is enough for me I don't care about multi color (tough multi material would be interesting depending on price but not a necessity) what could they bring in a new printer that would be worth to wait "If" they announce something (not to mention announcement means nothing If I need to wait a year to be able to buy it)
@@UncleJessy it's only 2 screws to take the AMS apart. Super easy I just had a piece of filament break Inside one of the PTFE tubes Only took a few minutes to fix
Rear mounted spool holders are an excellent example of design over function. Spools on the sides just don't look great. At least that's probably what the PR department thinks.
I’m another one who had to print some mod so I could load from the side on my Qidi x max3. The run out sensor is still on the back but I can reach that, just. Apart from that it’s a great printer with questionable features! 😁
Back before klipper and such, I had built/designed a CoreXY printer. I put the spool holder on the side, with the extruder on the front right. It was awesome. so easy to load and unload. Haha. I never got having the spool holder on the back. These spool holders are so cheap too. Like for as nice as the Bambu printers are, the X1/P1 series, their spool holders are cheap as ever.
3:40 This is similar to the Teflon "skate" that Markforged puts in the guide chain for the Bowden tube in the Onyx printers. I get why they did it, they don't want to increase the height because aluminum is expensive, but you get Teflon flakes everywhere. Mmm, microplastic forever chemical fluoridated organic polymers...
Check that PTFE tube in your Bambu Labs printer, I bet you will find that it rubbing against the glass is actually forming a flat spot in the tube, which is also weakening the tube. Ask me how I know ;p
Got a P1S about 2 months ago and while the rear spool is finicky, I think you ranted too much xD Sure the QIDI Max 3 looks to be the worse of all since that ”contraption” looks like a dry-box which IDK if you can remove it and put it somewhere else. For Bambu you can print a side mount to fix the rear mount and a riser to fix the PTFE tube drag on the top glass. I printed a riser and in the meantime I got an AMS ... I'll see if I'll need a side mount
Just like Apple puts all their ports on the back of their desktop Macs - I had to buy a dock for my Mac Mini to get USB ports and a headphone jack where I can actually reach them while seated. Seems design trumps usability with a lot of new products these days. Even cars have lost most physical buttons because designers are trying to achieve a cleaner look but touch buttons and screens are so much harder to use when you're concentrating on driving and need to do something by feel.
Agreed, if you're going to copy Bambu, be smart about it and try to make improvements that make sense. Don't just blindly copy every decision Bambu made. I also suspect a lot of them will lock down their printers and ecosystems as well. While I don't think they necessarily need to go full open source, I'd suggest they keep power users and tinkerers in mind and not lock things down so much it becomes a major problem to repair or tinker with the printer. It also helps give people a reason to buy them instead of Bambu. After all, if I'm okay with all of the decisions that Bambu made - I'll just buy a Bambu. Why would I buy a clone that's the exact same thing?
Rear mounted spool holders isn't a Bambu exclusive thing. It's been a thing since before Bambu existed and I totally hate it too. Even open source projects like Voron still use this design and it drives me nuts. I'm glad the community has fixes for this sort of thing. Hopefully the trend for chamber mounted spool holders catches on. That would be pretty cool.
Yep. I have a four year old AnyCubic 4Max that rear mounted the spool.. so the practice has been going around at least that long. I modded Rubbermaid containers as dry boxes and use those instead. Super handy to be able to monitor how much filament is left too vs peaking around the back of big enclosed printers. Never bothered printing the default filament mount for my Voron2.4
That design of putting the filament on the back was not by accident. It wasn’t some engineering guy at Bambu just trying to draw something up during the worst hangover of his life before finally throwing his hands up in the air and saying “eh, screw it, just put it in the least accessible place and let the customer figure it out”. No. This was done on purpose - and not because the buffer and loading is on the rear, but because Bambu wanted to “encourage” people to buy the convo with the AMS, which is a LOT easier and more convenient to deal with and which only takes one time to set up on the rear before you never have to touch it again (aside from maintenance of course). There’s a reason for everything ;)
Rear spool holders ONLY make sense if you have a farm with racks spaced apart so you can access the rear (MOST ppls setups aren't like that). I can only assume these companies test in wide open engineering labs where they can just walk around the machine while developing. Those are the only things that make any sense to me.
1000% Would be great for maximizing Shelf Space but horrible for anyone who cant walk behind their table or storage rack
We have that setup in our community makerspace, it works well with our rack.
This is how the conversation goes when a company designs a 3D printer:
“Ok, printer looks great! Now, where shall we put the spool holder?”
“How about here on the side, it will have easy access.”
“What!? And ruin how beautiful this machine looks?! Never! We will hide it in the back! If consumers don’t like it they can just make their own!”
I feel like this was the strategy with exhaust systems for cars made in the 80s and 90s, specifically from GM - figure out where it fits _after_ the main design
It's the Apple philosophy that everyone is copying. Just give me ease of use and functionality 😅
I cannot WAIT for the end of rear-mounted spool holders!
I mean I thought it couldnt get any worse hahahaha but I guess I was wrong
DOESNT THE AMS FIX THAT?
@@peterpeter5666 Tha AMS is an addition and not with the base machine. It does fix the problem but not for cheap.
@@peterpeter5666 Sure, and then introduces multiple other problems, material incompatibility, etc.
well from what i read ( i dont own one yet waiting for delivery) theres only a handful of filaments that are not compatible. mostly the carbon fiber ones @@Geoff_W
With regards to the filament holder on the back, and companies mimicking Bambu Labs. It’s like when other phone companies mimic Apple. Apple said “People don’t want the 3.5mm headphone jack so we removed it”. And all of the other phone companies did it too. Personally I really wish they had the headphone jack back.
OMG right there with you!
I see it as Apple giving others the excuse to remove the cost of the extra components. And as a benefit it helps them produce a thinner phone.
@@tomsommervilleThat's BS, it's so they could sell Airpods
@@cameltoastI didn't say anything about Apple's reasons - I was commenting on why other manufacturer's followed suit.
In any case, yes you're right, Apple wanted to sell Airpods, and Samsung wants to sell their buds, too. That doesn't change the fact that removing the jack both reduces cost and allows for a thinner phone. And Apple taking that step gave cover to the other manufacturers.
what's funny is that Balbulab wasn't the first to do that, there are many older videos of Vorons like 2.2 and 1.8 with spool holders on the back
The Qidi X plus 3 and X max 3 are awesome machines. As a mechanical engineer, not a hobbyist, the X plus 3 and X max 3 are the best machines for me and what I use them for.
Thanks for the feedback, Qidi. 😉
Same here, Had my Qidi X+3 since the re release and it's been great. Eats high end engineering material for breakfast. The heated chamber is the best. Didn't copy that for any cheap bambu crap.
@@riverracer while the QUDI has a lot of features that have gotten my attention for sure i still hear mixed reviews. I think it’s a bit more polished then the k1 series for sure.
But I also know that Bambu isn’t cheap, and isn’t crap by any stretching. And we likely wouldn’t currently have these offerings for any manufacturer if it weren’t for Bambu either. Are they perfect machines? No but the speed and quality of the majority of the prints speak for themselves. The reliability has also so far proven that they can withstand pretty constant use. And while parts are only available from Bambu they aren’t overly expensive. From my standpoint as a business I just buy the most common parts and keep them in stock, which I always did with my anycubic, prusa and creality printers as well. I can say that out of all my Bambu printers I’ve only completely broken 1 nozzle and had 1 unrecoverable clog in a year and a half between 8 machines.
Finally the only bragging rights creality and QUDI have are larger build volume and lower price, and the QUDI has the added active chamber heater. What will happen when Bambu releases its next gen flagship printers this year? We can only guess but according to Bambu not only will they be better then the x and p series but also offered in larger build volume. What that really means is anyone’s guess but I can say for sure I will be buying the larger build volume Bambu printer. I may buy the QUDI x3 max or k1 max buy creality needs to address the resonance artifacts in their x y before I’ll buy a k1. And everyone I know has said the QUDI is slightly better then the k1 as well and I take their opinion seriously.
Love my x-max 3
In his world, elegoo is the best
This is why I purchased an AMS. Don't do many multicolour prints ,but the ease of changing over to a different material is painless.
I got the k1 max and its a great machine. i haven't had any real issues at all so far in the 2 months I have it. the spool holder i grant you can be a pain. the app is a pain in the bolox altogether but the functional part of the app to monitor prints does the job
I made a second riser and feed my filament from it via a lazy susan . I feel the same with the app .
I recently purchased a Creality K1C and it came with a model that allows you to print a side spool holder. Additional screws came with it to install the side spool holder. The filament sensor also has enough cable to allow you to place it on the side. But I did have to print a top riser to stop the chain thing from banging on the top cover. Also replaced the Bowden tube with a Capricorn tube and printed a holder to glue the rubber nozzle cleaner onto. I can now use any PEI bed plate, than the one that came with the printer. Change is slowly happening.
I think the manufactures look at it as an ascetics thing. It kills the look of the printers to cover logos and such.
100% this. That unsightly spool of filament is now hidden behind the machine which is awesome for promo photos but horrible in actual use
underrated observation, this
*aESTHetics. That's the word that means how something looks. Ascetic means "characterized by or suggesting the practice of severe self-discipline and abstention from all forms of indulgence, typically for religious reasons."
We need some of the competitors to come out with an AMS type system, its a total game changer!
If only prusa decided to make a filament buffer...
They are working on them. I guess we'll get news later this year.
@@arturofernandez8487 Prusas attempt with the MMU has been pretty shoddy at best. It's nothing close to a comparison with the AMS.
It seems much easier to improve on existing designs than research and develop independently. It is both a boon and a curse because, without the necessity to spur development, it becomes incremental. On the plus side, while being so close in design, if something goes wrong you have a general start point to fix it.
Manufacturers just need to rack them up top. Makes sense as we go into multi-spool printers in the future.
I prefer the qidi max over the bambu AFTER I made some modifications to eliminate a few issues. I try to stay away from the which printer is best discussion, and just roll with what works for what I'm doing. It's all too apple vs android for me lol. Hope you do a full review on the qidi soon as I'm interested to see if you have the same issues I've had to find solutions for.
I've got an X-Max 3 as well, I'm curious to hear what your issues were and how you resolved them, personally. 😊
Fellow X-Max 3 user here! Mine's been a nightmare, but the customer service from Qidi is bar none. Easily the best customer service I've ever had. My printer works now and it works well!
I agree with the apple vs android debate. Like, if you asked me my honest answer, the Bambu Lab probably is the better machine, but I don't like closed garden systems. Love me open source!
I think Bambu is honestly doing it so you're "forced" to invest in an AMS unit.
My Bambu X1c had many issues with filament not retracting to the AMS and required me to constantly have to reach back, uncouple the PTFE, gently pull the filament by hand, and then hit the "try again" button on the screen which then worked fine at that point. This was painful though as it caused multi-material prints to basically be impossible, needing this hand intervention at every single filament-to-AMS retraction. You mentioned the printers needing more clearance for the PTFE tube that leads into the tool head; you are absolutely correct! I designed a bracket that raised the glass up by 60mm and I pulled the tube out of that little bracket that held it down to the cable chain so it could naturally position itself.... problems totally solved! I've never had one more issue since. The cause of most Bambu and similar printer problems is simply the glass being too close to the tool head and causing undue pressure on the system. Alleviate this pressure and you have a near-perfect printer.
I like the idea of the Qidi spool holder. Throw in some dry silica gel and you have a nice way to keep the spool dry if left on the printer for a while. It's just in the wrong place!
The glass top didn’t cause any feed problems (because I got to it first, I guess), but it DID cause my tube to get worn through from rubbing on the glass. I have additional clips installed now, as well as spacers for the top.
With Creality K1C they now include 2 printable options for side spool holders. Brilliant because you can do you first print and mod all in one.
Glad to see you move the K1 Max without breaking the door. :) Couldn't resist. Creality now includes a side mount STL but you are totally right. Not sure the engineers design decision on these. The PFTE tubes wear and eventually cause issues. The Creality App is horrible.
You are correct, a saying I use is "Competition creates Innovation". I also think it will drive some prices down for these nicer fast core xy printers too, although I would love to see a large print bed with close to these same speed specs
At least for Bambu I’d guess they designed for an AMS setup, and then looked at how to best mount just a single spool and keep within that setup. And they are far more geared towards Print Farms than a person with a single printer setup, which mounting a spool elsewhere than the back takes up more space in the Farm setup which would detract from sales to Print Farms. So do you cater to the most likely one time buy group , or the ones that will be buying multiple units and more over time? As for the space above the extruder, there are all kind of manufacturing and shipping designs that go into having more space which takes more material and different machining setups and change up shipping space in shipping containers.
RIGHT. They were "first" for consumer coreXY as far as what we are seeing. Yes Creality had the absolute lack luster Ender 5, but that isn't in the same space as the Bambu Labs printers are.
@@tombo7719 If you ran ender 5s as your print farm printers, you'd quickly go out of business.
Exactly what I was thinking!
The spool holder issue seems weird to me, because I have always printed with my filament feeding from a dryer box. Even if I don't need to have the dryer box on to dry the filament at the time, it's still in there and protected. I would never even consider just having the PLA or PETG spool out in the air while printing for many hours or even days.
With the Qidi's though, that rear spool holder is a breeze to pull off, swap your filament and thread it through wherever is most comfortable for you. You don't have to try to thread it while it's still on the printer.
Of course, once the filament is in the holder you still have to put it on the back again, but at least all you have to do then is just thread it through the intake of the printer., and that's still the same issue as every other rear mounted system.
You can just get a longer piece of PTFE tube and set the dry box anywhere you want
@@Thierry080 Yeah, that is what I actually do in practise. I was referring to the bit in the video where Uncle Jessy is making the job of dealing with the dry box located on the back of the Qidi WAY harder than it needs to be.
This rear spool holder mount approach is only suitable in particular environments (a print farm for example) but is a very bad choice for us, "normal" users ! It is a real pain. What were the designers of the Qidi x-max 3 thinking ?!
Thank you uncle jesse for talking about this issue... I hope more manufacturers will seriously listen to their customers complaints and suggestions and implement the solutions rapidly !
Definitely agree on the rear mount headache. I have the QIDI X-Plus 3, which I love, but I resetup my spool mount on it.
Solid points! I do believe there is a lot of copying going around. The whole PTFE tube at the top thing seems to have started as a compromise that everyone just copied. Making the machine extra tall probably made a bunch of extra space on top that seemed like a waste, especially on an enclosed printer, so they probably made the decision to make it shorter and crunch the tube a bit. Also the rear spool thing is just dumb lol.
On my P1S, the lack of clearance to the glass top absolutely contributes to issues, where the ams wont pull filament back in.
Adding a glass riser, combined with the new AMS behavior from the recent firmware update, seemed to have helped a lot though.
But when i took off the glas top to install the riser, i saw a lot of while particles stuck to the glass. And a flat spot on the internal tube confirmed, that its rubbing against the glass to the point of disintegration.
And PTFE dust is a serious issue!
I got 6 P1S and only use the rear holder on one of them and that's because the back is easily accessible due to its position and it doesn't need to be rotated either. The others all backed up to a wall. I printed some simple blocks that screw to the wall and screwed some off the shelf reel holders to them as a work around.
100% agreed, there should be a choice on filament roll mounting location. I actually dont like the side placement either, but I know many like it there. But how much cost would it add for any of these manufacturers building corexy to put a mount back, side or even just a longer piece of PTFE tube so i can run it to my location of choice ( filament dryer).
best thing i've ever done with my K1 was move the filament sensor to the side, and mounted my spool holder onto the wall right next to it... i tried using a side mount spool holder, but i noticed more waves and ringing in my prints... also some of the screws on the acrylic side panel started getting loose... when i removed it, it was only being held onto one screw instead of 3, and i had to tighten all of the other screws down again... crazy... so now it's on the wall, and i'm very happy with the machine...
Finally, someone mentioned my main complaint about these printers...the rear mounted spool holders. Even my Tiertime Up Box+ from almost10 years ago figured this out with one of the slickest side mount spool holders ever done.
Just remove the dry box of the Qidi, get a 50cm bit of PTFE tube to connect it and put the dry box on the table next to the printer. This way it's much more flexible and no one has to fiddle around at its back anymore.
Completely agree on all points.
I wound up removing all of the spool holders off my Bambu machines and mounted them directly on the wall next to the machine. Yes I still have to reach past the machine but it way easier to swap filament now even on my racks. Yeah the lower shelf printers kinda suck to swap but it’s still better then reaching to the back of the machine.
QIDI BigMac 3 - my steps
1. center
2. remove ptfe from extruder - clip filament
3. pull box off, drag filament out, open box and remove filament.
4. put new filament in box and pull out a bunch
5. route filament through ptfe to extruder
6. heat up extruder, run what's left of old fialment out, while pushing in new filament, push ptfe back into extruder.
Got it pretty quick now, but still, total pain. The ONLY thing I missed about my ender 3
Most normal users that doesn't have a print farm won't their giant 3d printer in the middle of the living room where there is 360 degrees of access. Most of us put their 3d printers with the back facing the wall. it makes no sense to put the filament there unless someone can walk through wall. It really needs to stop
Agree 100% and would add that I don't want to have to install a separate app for every different brand of printer I own, so how about allowing third parties access to the API so we can have one app to manage our Creality, AnkerMake and Bambu printers. And I also don't particularly want to have to install an app to set up my printer, so give us a way to do it from either the front panel or via a web browser or PC interface. And spool holder mounts on BOTH sides of the printer so we can decide between left or right side mounts.
I actually printed a spoool holder that I placed on the top of my P1S, no issues loading filament now.
💯 agree with everything and loading filliment into the extruder is a pain
No, I agree. I have an x max plus too and I'm finding that that the spool holder at the back is annoying due to my limited workspace
i preordered the bigtreetech thing as well. seems extremely useful especially since it can control several bambu printers at once
the upcoming Phrozen Arco at least seems to be different and trying some new roads
I am 100% with you. Just recently got our P1S and it was so terrible loading filament that I actually mounted the filament spool holder onto the wall so it was easier to use and you can also keep an eye on the filament incase of a snag or anything going wrong. I really hope this reaches the right the people and make a difference.
All 4 of my FDMS which are over a decade old are rear feed.
My original Rhinox X4 , both my Ultimaker 2+ and Mini and my Big Box are all rear mounted.
It was how they were done originally and only now are they starting to move them to different positions!
you can actually trace how bambulab got it's spool holder on the back, Ultimaker 2 was expensive so people developed Voron 3d printer, that printer became Voron Trident and that printer was later used during the development at Bambulab
I have to say, I don't have a problem with the rear-mounted spool holder on my P1S - because it's at the top. I don't have access to the rear or the left side, but it's pretty trivial to reach over the top and change the spool. If it was any lower, though, it'd be an absolute nightmare.
Never been a Creality fan, but your clip reminded me of a funny story. One of my father's coworkers was cheating on his literacy test by copying the answer sheet from the guy sitting next to him. He did such a fine job; he even copied the guy's name and put it on his answer sheet. A true story.
Spool holder on the back is a relic from reprap times. With the ultimaker
I agree the external spool mount could have been better. But I wouldn't call it the worst position. The rear mount minimizes filament drag through the feed tubes. I've experimented with alternative spool mount positions (including the side) and the way the tube bends and the length of the tube significantly increases the friction and can cause under-extrusion. I made my own mount and drybox solution that is both to the rear but shifted more towards the side (not directly behind the printer). I have easy access to the spool and it only adds about 50 mm of extra tube in the back. But it is a nearly straight path to the drybox. I would like to see a dedicated well-thought out drybox solution from Bambu next time.
Are you saying that the engineers actually had a reason for their design? You might be on to something...
@@geoffreyhowells7290 well, I'm explaining the reason. Because the video is claiming the rear position is the worst position.
@@eighty-eighth_section And I totally agree with you. Opinions without facts are worthless.
@@geoffreyhowells7290 my bad. I think I misinterpreted the tone/intent of your comment.
@@eighty-eighth_section It's fine... I have a tendency for sarcasm. Problem is... it does not translate well via text. :)
Thanks to all the hard work of the Klipper devs ;-)
It's incredibly easy to print a side-mounted, internal, or top-mounted spool or dryer box holder...
Bambu IS expensive. It IS also 100% worth it if you, like me, found yourself spending years working on your printer more than actually printing things. I started with an Ender 3 pro back before Microcenter really carried them, then I moved on to a Sidewinder X2, and now I'm happy to just have my X1 Carbon and be able to just...print. From my pc, wirelessly, check the status on my phone, brilliant.
I feel you brotha - hundreds of hours effing with my ender 3's, only to get a qidi tech and it all just works out the gate. I shouldn't say all, but there is so much less to account for and adjust print to print.
Within the first week of owning my k1 max, I printed this awesome side spool holder mount (for the stock mount). it works fantastic! - I printed one for my bambu p1s as well, but I haven't installed it yet because I have an AMS and i usually print from that. - I don't get why they are on the back side of the printer where people can't reach at all.
You are soooo right about this. Even our Ultimaker s5 has a spool holder in the back. Such a pain in the ass!
I was going to point out that they are copying the original Ultimaker with the spool holder in the back. You look familiar.
@@thenormanfair Yeah! You too, but I can't quite put my finger on it! 😄
have an X1C and I use the AMS and havent even bothered to mount the rear spool holder.
I may get around to it if I print abrasives or tpu but not an issue personally.
I have 4 printers, and I love that the filament is on the backside because it saves table space, just perfect😂
Have they considered putting the spool holders on the bottom of the machine?
I turn my k1 max so the spool is on the side. Still easy to access the print bed. Works great.
yes, I hope every manufacturer see this video.
This is so true. why would they copy absolutely everything and don't even try to solve some of the existing problems? Another point is the pricing. Why would I buy a printer that clearly is a copy of a bambulab and isn't even bigger or better for the same price (or even more) than the p1s? that's so dumb.
You are completely alone here. Personally I love shifting my printer to the edge of my shelf and half throwing my back out reaching around the thing every time I want to change filaments- it's the best!
"We would really rather sell to commercial interests... but our salespeople won't stop wanting to sell to individuals in homes, so we'll do what we can to make it so painful those individuals won't stay in 3D printing for long."
I have one printer that does the back mount thing (old PowerSpec 2.0 3D printer), and it's annoying every time even with the revised mounts I printed.
I have the X max 1 and spool is on the top and one inside. Guess they prefer a cleaner design without you seeing the spool instead of practically
I couldnt agree with you more about the back mounted holder, reaching around sucks. Nobody likes a reacharound!...Uh I mean, uh yeah...
Could care less about rear mounted spool holder, but I would REALLY like a Bambulab X1C in 2x or 3 x in either width or length
I totally agree with you. Such big companies, the least they could have done is spend money on r&d and user experience. Even elegoo machines are beautiful but bad firmwares.
How wide do they want our work bench to be? The printers already take so much space, and now we have to move it forward so much more for the moints.
No, you are right. It’s ridiculous. I’m going to put mine whenever I can afford it on the floor under my desk since my desk is not by a wall for the spool holder. It’s like if manufacturer are in majority completely stupid with coming with their own improvements. Every now and then one get the Midas touch then it stops there.
Those rear mounted spool holders are a nightmare in tight spaces.
Can u not remove them?
Completely different concept. These are core xy with klipper for people that actually knows what they are doing bamboo is a very good product for someone that want everything they want out of the box. It's like iPhone and android phones.
Copying existing designs, trying to make them _cheaper,_ is pretty much the business model for most Chinese manufacturers. I'm told that there would be a bunch of factories making the same parts and assemblies, and unless the brand is Apple or Samsung, there's going to be someone selling same or very similar widgets on Alibaba. And there are no designers or engineers who can look at the design and say, "Hey, we can do better by doing this..." because they cost money.
When it comes to designing products, you can innovate or you can imitate, choose wisely.
There is one more problem with the filament holder being in the back: you can't put the machine directly to the wall, there must be a gap.
I use a dry box on the side of the printer I have a bowden tube that goes to the printer, and never have to feed anything from the back.
Obviously it’s just another way to sell more ams units, which makes no sense if you don’t offer those, but very much for Bambu Labs.
The rear mount filament spool holder was done first by Ideaformer COBEES printer which by the way was an horrible printer that came out about 4 years ago
My voron 2.4 started with.a rear spool mount which i still hate with a passion so I am in the middle of building a ERCFv2 that i will use to move as much as i can to the top as I would love to build a sealed filament volume above the printer that can hold all six spools and feed the printer as directly as possible though managing all that feels like a big challenge, right now just getting the Ercf v2 up and working with all the changes to the print head would be it’s own success. Like i am a fan of the Prusa XL and it’s tool changer but I have a hard time believing they did much testing of TPU which for me at least requires me to circumvent their whole ptfe feed tube system and put the filament directly into the print head which feels like a design flaw. Tight ptfe tube radii and other sources of resistance like many of the contact style filament sensors seem to make nothing but trouble with softer/flex filaments and such.
Put on wheel base- I bought one for my Prusa XL in hardware store. Huge printers must be on wheels. :)
Sure would love a video on how to code the timelaspe camera like you do. My default settings show the nozzle movement.
Slightly lesser, but still irritating complaint: Rear mounted power switches.
Absolutely correct. Unbelievable that some geek punched these out without feedback. My BLX1C has and extended ptfe tube fed into the 4 way manifold along with the 2 AMS I have. The spool is on the top
Hi, since Bambu labs is hinting about a new flagship printer in 2024 - If I only want a reliable (ABS ASA Nylon TPU) closed "just work" printer and the current bed size is enough for me I don't care about multi color (tough multi material would be interesting depending on price but not a necessity) what could they bring in a new printer that would be worth to wait "If" they announce something (not to mention announcement means nothing If I need to wait a year to be able to buy it)
Ayo!! That reach around sounds wild 😂😂😂
Why don't you like the rear mount? Its not like almost everyone backs up their printer to a wall. :)
I have the Bambu X1C and only use the AMS never even mounted the rear spool holder because it's such a pain in the @$$
On the flip side my AMS clogged a few months ago and I refuse to take the entire thing apart 🤣
@@UncleJessy it's only 2 screws to take the AMS apart. Super easy
I just had a piece of filament break
Inside one of the PTFE tubes
Only took a few minutes to fix
Rear mounted spool holders are an excellent example of design over function. Spools on the sides just don't look great. At least that's probably what the PR department thinks.
TwoTrees broke the mold Jessy! They put the spool holder on the side of their Bambu clone🎉
I’m another one who had to print some mod so I could load from the side on my Qidi x max3. The run out sensor is still on the back but I can reach that, just. Apart from that it’s a great printer with questionable features! 😁
bambu labs p1s is my next buy, if i didnt have a bunch of bed slingers already i would try the new a1 they have but i want another corexy
Back before klipper and such, I had built/designed a CoreXY printer. I put the spool holder on the side, with the extruder on the front right. It was awesome. so easy to load and unload. Haha. I never got having the spool holder on the back. These spool holders are so cheap too. Like for as nice as the Bambu printers are, the X1/P1 series, their spool holders are cheap as ever.
3:40 This is similar to the Teflon "skate" that Markforged puts in the guide chain for the Bowden tube in the Onyx printers. I get why they did it, they don't want to increase the height because aluminum is expensive, but you get Teflon flakes everywhere. Mmm, microplastic forever chemical fluoridated organic polymers...
Check that PTFE tube in your Bambu Labs printer, I bet you will find that it rubbing against the glass is actually forming a flat spot in the tube, which is also weakening the tube. Ask me how I know ;p
Got a P1S about 2 months ago and while the rear spool is finicky, I think you ranted too much xD
Sure the QIDI Max 3 looks to be the worse of all since that ”contraption” looks like a dry-box which IDK if you can remove it and put it somewhere else.
For Bambu you can print a side mount to fix the rear mount and a riser to fix the PTFE tube drag on the top glass. I printed a riser and in the meantime I got an AMS ... I'll see if I'll need a side mount
At least Creality sends the K1 Max with a printable spool holder that mounts to the side.
We have used "lazy susans" on two of our mini printers, but those larger ones would *shimmy-shimmy* BIG time...
Just like Apple puts all their ports on the back of their desktop Macs - I had to buy a dock for my Mac Mini to get USB ports and a headphone jack where I can actually reach them while seated. Seems design trumps usability with a lot of new products these days. Even cars have lost most physical buttons because designers are trying to achieve a cleaner look but touch buttons and screens are so much harder to use when you're concentrating on driving and need to do something by feel.
move the box to the side, a optional camera is available
Agreed, if you're going to copy Bambu, be smart about it and try to make improvements that make sense. Don't just blindly copy every decision Bambu made. I also suspect a lot of them will lock down their printers and ecosystems as well. While I don't think they necessarily need to go full open source, I'd suggest they keep power users and tinkerers in mind and not lock things down so much it becomes a major problem to repair or tinker with the printer. It also helps give people a reason to buy them instead of Bambu.
After all, if I'm okay with all of the decisions that Bambu made - I'll just buy a Bambu. Why would I buy a clone that's the exact same thing?
Rear mounted spool holders isn't a Bambu exclusive thing. It's been a thing since before Bambu existed and I totally hate it too. Even open source projects like Voron still use this design and it drives me nuts. I'm glad the community has fixes for this sort of thing. Hopefully the trend for chamber mounted spool holders catches on. That would be pretty cool.
Yep. I have a four year old AnyCubic 4Max that rear mounted the spool.. so the practice has been going around at least that long. I modded Rubbermaid containers as dry boxes and use those instead. Super handy to be able to monitor how much filament is left too vs peaking around the back of big enclosed printers.
Never bothered printing the default filament mount for my Voron2.4
Actually the X-Max was out before Bambu Labs even existed. That being said the X-Max3 was an improvement of its former version.
Lazy Susan.... who's going to design one now?
I was just on amazon looking for a huge lazy susan as a joke to show off... now I'm loving the idea of 3D Printing one
That design of putting the filament on the back was not by accident. It wasn’t some engineering guy at Bambu just trying to draw something up during the worst hangover of his life before finally throwing his hands up in the air and saying “eh, screw it, just put it in the least accessible place and let the customer figure it out”. No. This was done on purpose - and not because the buffer and loading is on the rear, but because Bambu wanted to “encourage” people to buy the convo with the AMS, which is a LOT easier and more convenient to deal with and which only takes one time to set up on the rear before you never have to touch it again (aside from maintenance of course).
There’s a reason for everything ;)