Did fireship copyright black backgrounds and red text? Or clipping the subjects of photographs? It's a different font too. Just because you're unable to discern the differences doesn't mean others are as oblivious as you are.
I actually started using Svelte with 5.0 (about a week before it became stable). So I don't actually have any attachment to the older way of doing things. But reading through the migration guide, it really feels like all the changes they made are sensible and done for a good reason. It's much more explicit and less magic this way. SvelteKit really feels like the most "it just works" framework out there to me so far.
honestly, I actually like using Svelte 5 especially after using svelte 4 for a year. The "Predictability" is main factor for me to not hate Svelte 5 (also snippets, love em). In svelte 4, when looking at other people's code, it was seriously hard (rather time consuming) to figure out which variable is supposed to change and which is not.
I want to ask if there is stores in svelte 5 like that in svelte 4. It helps to manage props if there are multiple components right ? I was just getting strated with it in Svelte 4 and then 5 came out..
@@Kmps2341af I am not sure what you mean by "manage" but yes handling props is a bit easy in svelte 5 and less magical with $props and things like $bindable. talking about stores, yes svelte 5 has stores (writable stuff) API as it is, just that now ruins are a "generalized" thing, it is better when possible to use them across app. good luck 🤞
In the end, Runes doesn't change much from before; it's just a different way to make the code more concise, readable, and therefore maintainable. The form has shifted from "$: let count = 0" to "let count = $state(0)"; "$state" is not a function but a compiler directive just like "$:" was. I don't understand why someone would think it's similar to React; they are completely different things. 🤔
The word effect drive people mad i guess, i too was skeptink at the beginning and some things that were possible before now are tricky to achieve, but 90% of the code is better honestly so right now i'm totally in with runes. They provide the best DX still compared to the other frameworks because they rely a lot on the compiler.
Yea “nobody cares” yet it’s universally loved across all languages not just js. 😂 We laugh at the JS scrubs toiling between Js or Js 😂😂 It’s either Vue or Mithril for legitimate apps.
Complain complain complain. It's software. It changes. That's how it is. When things stop evolving they die out. Be grateful for the very clever brains that keep it moving along.
There's a reason why people still love Laravel/PHP and are faithful to that framework. Seriously.. PHP in 2024. Because they do not get betrayed on an early basis. They do not use a framework that changes core functionality on a whim. THE HOLE SELLING POINT OF SVELTE (1) was the simplicity of it. This now ? THIS is 90% REACT. We already have React at home.
Unfortunately, another way to "die out" is to "never be born" in the first place. If breaking changes keep piling up like this, people will eventually normalize them and stop paying attention. Right now, hardly anyone uses Svelte. Maybe some will in the future, but please don’t let it come to the point where nobody wants to use it. "Write less, do more"? My ass. At this rate, it’s on track to become the "fart jar" framework. How is people writing less and doing more when they need to keep up with breaking changes like this. This is wrong.
For the average web app, sure, they all have very similar performance, but I rewrote a highly interactive drag n drop editor from React to Solid and holy shit it's night and day.
I believe it - Solid is so much lighter. In all honesty, I believe Vue and Svelte would have the same impressive performance thanks to their streamlined reactivity systems.
@@boccobadz I mean, React is generally good, has a large community and it allows you to use React Native, which is a game changer for solo devs/small startups, but if you're building heavily interactive apps, it's a no-go.
You are right - as I said in the video, at this point the difference between frameworks are mostly related to technical details and performance in special usecases.
I started to use Vue first and then discovered Svelte and liked it for it's simplicity but if they're just going to look the same, I'd rather user Vue and Nuxt because their community is bigger. I know Svelte was first at a lot of things but losing it's simplicity may be a mistake.
@@kousheralam having used both react and vue 3 in big projects, I can say that these are... inferior to Svelte 5. Now in another big project (we'll be using micro frontend with SystemJS), we'll be using Svelte. 3 months now, so far Svelte hasn't disappointed me yet. Fast, dev friendly, and meets our requirements
Now just waiting for vue vapor to release So we have pin-point reactivity in solid pin-point reactivity in svelte pin-point reactivity in vue zoneless reactivity in angular and react
Haha! Well said. React feels like the solution with the most bloat at this point, even though they added the compiler. Can't beat their ecosystem though :(
@@awesome-codingseriously what does React ecosystem offer that Vue doesn’t match? Vue has full multiplatform support from desktop to mobile to embedded and is the default for ecosystems outside of JS. Meta frameworks Bootcamps Books UI libs CMS Starter Templates SaaS Boilerplates Events Funding Year over year growth Public Roadmap Check check check check check lol I think you like many just kinda say that as a programmed response but it hasn’t been true for quite some time. Svelte however, just kicked its own ass back to ground zero 😂 Why is it so hard for people to give Vue credit (hint: it’s a threat) - which is so stupid! This is what you get when a google engineer designs a framework versus when a journalist designs a framework, it took 4 years to arrive where Vue has been 😂 Oh the butt hurt is strong It’s a f*** frontend library.
Back to react we go. Svelte loved by the developer is because it is different. Because it looks like a plain javascript. Even jquery looks like more javascript than svelte now.
The main thing I don't like about the recent Svelte changes are the file naming requirements and the amount of files/folders that are needed to support them. Other than that, most everything is an improvement for people working on non-solo projects.
This is inaccurate on a couple of points. Svelte uses signals under the hood, just takes away the boilerplate. Svelte 5 rivals SolidJS and Vanilla JS in performance while also keeping the syntactic sugar of Runes. Speaking of Runes, the big deal there is that you don't have to make different versions of your code to run server-side as opposed to client-side. On the server where reactivity doesn't apply, the Runes are removed by the compiler in SvelteKit. This facet simply doesn't exist in other frameworks and is why Svelte moved away from $:, stores, etc. to Runes. Not to look more like other frameworks-which it does now only superficially-but for an enhanced developer experience you won't find anywhere else.
Directly from their announcement: svelte.dev/blog/svelte-5-is-alive "If you change a single property of a reactive object in Svelte 4, the entire object is invalidated, because that’s all the compiler can realistically do. Meanwhile, other frameworks have adopted fine-grained reactivity based on signals, leapfrogging Svelte’s performance." In other words, old compiler reactivity bad (it's pretty much dirty checking), new signals based reactivity good. All other frameworks use the new reactivity, so we need to do it to. That's what they say in their announcement. On top of that they had a bigger issue with store vs component reactivity having different implementations hence limitations. (Details www.builder.io/blog/reactivity-across-frameworks) So a unified reactive system which is more performant was the main driver for introducing runes. The SSR benefits are just one of the outcomes.
I have a svelte 4 project written in over a year time span with so many npm packages installed. I cannot update to version yet until all npm packages have migrated to version 5. Looking forward when the project is migrated to it
I cant predict the future, but I feel that by running into this problem early Angular might become more attractive because they adapted and worked out the issues, now a lot of these frameworks are having their Angular 2 moment but modern Angular is stable and introducing radical new features in a sustainable way.
@@awesome-codinghell no. Angular team has no idea what it's doing. How many times did they completely change some fundamental aspect 5-10 versions in? Reactive Forms, new renderer, standalone components, now runes - all those things existed when Angular was in planing stage and should have been part of Angular since day one, but were ignored, because these people do not learn from others experience, only from their own mistakes, except you have to suffer with them because a lot of idiot managers bought into the marketing.
What I didn't like about Svelte, compared to Solid and React, is that it messes with your ability to express clean and transparent code using FP paradigms by hiding side effects. I don't think I will ever like it because of this.
with runes you can still pass around state still compiler magic makes the code hard to read same problems v4 had if you are gonna do compiler magic make sure it works without the compiler as well
From what I see in the docs they updated their tutorial to svelte 5. Correct me if I am wrong. For a begginer who want to pick an easy framework do create interactive web apps ( and doesnt care to find a job in the industry) do you suggest to learn svelte 5? If not what framework do you suggest?
Am i the only one who hates the heavy push for server side frameworks? I like my websites to have a loading spinner, and then present a fully working page to the user with smooth experience, while server side frameworks have unpredictable behavior and jittery experience just because developers feel the need to overcomplicate things. Isnt this one of the reasons that chatgpt website moved away from nextjs to a different framework Not to mention keeping seperate files for server and client makes perfect sense, while nextjs throws everything in one src file
SSR can significantly simplify things. it was the push towards CSR that overcomplicated web dev. not everything needs to run like a native app, and even still, its just a matter of updating parts of the page rather than calling a full refresh, reactive content binding, and a router to interface with the address bar.
I feel the same. Maybe for static websites, blogs or marketplaces SSR is a must, but for last 10 years I was working on different web apps (not websites) and they all require high interactivity, they do not need SSR. Things like dashboards, internal tools, apps that are protected by sign-in wall (so no SEO+SSR needed). SPA are perfect for that. Simple. Give it some REST API or WebSocket with a backend like Hono and that's it. Deno on top of it makes me love my web stack again.
yeah you are not the only one, the heavy push to server is because cloud providers want to make more money on resources. and client side frameworks don`t make them money when they run on the clients device.
@paw565 Thank you! I am considering doing a comprehensive comparison between React, Angular, Vue Svelte and Solid mostly because I believe they are very similar now.
Vue is simply simple and great. People crying about performance, check its benchmark its still faster then react and other framework. U can argue solid might be faster then vue. But Vue is so simple and eazy to learn. Going from react to vue was a game Changing experience.
@@vaisakh_kmits so easy because its a html first framework, vue use valid html syntax instead of opinionated solution to have js or js-like in html, and this is why we can also use vue with cdn because build step is optional! my favorite things coming from react is working on input form, vue handle form gracefully
@@vaisakh_km Been programming professionally in Svelte 4 / Kit for 2 years now as a SWE III. Switching to Vue 3 composition API atm for 3 months now, haven't tried Nuxt yet. SvelteKit is awesome, Svelte 4 and Vue 3 are basically same thing, Vue 3 less magic, closer to JS, Svelte 4 Actions... Node lifecycle actions and SvelteKit ActionResults are
"...converge into one single library..." It's called Web Components. Any framework you choose will always suffer the issues described. With a standard API this is minimised.
🤔 So the question remains. Is Svelte still better than React? And more importantly what about SvelteKit vs NextJS? If frontend frameworks are becoming similar doesn't it make more sense to got with Next?
There is no comparison... next and react are really complex and are trying to keep backward compatability... same with angular but most other framework and really easy to learn and only has few robust concepts to build anything.. and things like svelte is battery included.. which is a bonus
Next is hard to self-host. And your statement doesn't make sense to me. I could just as easily say If frontend frameworks are becoming similar doesn't it make more sense to got with [SvelteKit|Fresh|Astro|Remix|etc]
@@vaisakh_km Batteries included is what I like to hear. Things like laravel, django etc. I want to focus on backend and databases Svelte like Rust and Go are one of the few technologies that excites me.
@@dezly-macauley 😅 i thought people are going to fight me like batteries included is a bad thing... that's one reason people hate angular... seems go popularised it
People keeps inventing new frameworks to make frontend development easier, until to not writing code, and then they will realize there is thing called AI that can write vanilla Javascript, HTML, CSS on our behalf
It is indeed a different framework, but not in the good sense. It is no longer useful for creating little widgets and embeddable apps, it is just a monster optimized to own the entire APP. Crap
Angular :the real only different framework. All the rest : lets copy each other on anything, keeping the same shitty way of putting everything in just one file and making ten files just for an homepage. Proud to literally hate non angular frameworks. Sorry not sorry.
It's a rewrite from the ground up, and their main new selling point is removing what was previously making Svelte cool and different :)) I'd say it's a different framework.
@awesome-coding maybe I'm biased to svelte. But from my experience react and alikes pruduce tens or hundreds of KB for simple things (and people to reduce it with preact ...etc). While svelte is bare minimum.
“Providing a dev experience similar to the rest of the industry”…. That’s a terrible reason to do a full rewrite. Instead of leading you’re following. So Svelte devs found out that their “reactive” strategy actually doesn’t work in larger projects. Nice.
Pretty much. They had to make the change though. In all fairness larger teams and bigger projects did it as well during the years. After all Angular, React and Vue went through 3 big rewrites / core changes in the past 10 years.
Ah, Svelte 5, finally here to liberate us from the age-old shackles of... writing the exact same CRUD app yet again! Amazing how every year front end frameworks discover a brand-new way to render a button, style a form, or toggle a modal! Who knew CRUD needed such a constant reinvention, right? I’m on the edge of my seat for Svelte 6 to show us the next revolutionary way to map over an array and display user names. Truly, the relentless innovation we’ve all been waiting for 😆 Can't wait to rewrite this exact app... for the 100th time. 🚀
Svelte 5 sucks, it lost practically all the qualities that made it special in exchange for a more powerful and improved reactivity system that only a few will appreciate. In addition to introducing a horrible new syntax like snipets.
I'm a beginner in webdev with 6 months of svelte 4 and svelte 5 feels so much better! Runes make things explicit and it's really helpful when the project grows.
@@MadeInJack I've been developing for years now. Picked up Svelte 4 around when Svelte 5 was announced. Svelte 5 is so, so much better. People who prefer Svelte 4 weren't doing anything serious to begin with.
I thought the same when the first announcement of runes came, but in a year’s time the team behind it has simplified the concept enough for it to make sense. I’ve been using svelte since v2 and I did feel that I wouldn’t like this change, but I’ve actually enjoyed it. Especially since they made the sv cli that actually migrates about 80% of your codebase for you. The only downside that I’ve found is how props and slots are handled, especially in bigger and more complex code bases with this approach.
$props and #snippet implementation is horrible, IMO. Change from constructor to function initialization of components...common.... The rest of the changes can live with.
@@stevenstavrakis6605 I built an ecommerce platform from scratch with every possible feature you might expect, while keeping it fast and secure. Even did wss and my own payment handling, my own multi-selects, charts and other primary components, which tend to be the most complicated to get right. Take it from me, nothing svelte 5 brings helps in any way. It's just uglier and less practical. People just forgot writable() was a thing, and if your state got too complicated you could use that instead of "let something"... Signals are nice, but not at the cost of everything else, and certainly not when the core concept of signals is ~25 lines of code you could polyfill.
Is everybody now copying Fireships thumbnail style to get some more views?
they look completely different
@@pjosxyz It's same art style. Probably for a reason.
@@g0r3ify Is everyone now sticking to this 'trend-police' comment style for attention? 😆
@xsdash Yeah, coz people not wanting to be lured into clicking the wrong videos is probably a too straightforward thing to understand for some people.
Did fireship copyright black backgrounds and red text? Or clipping the subjects of photographs? It's a different font too. Just because you're unable to discern the differences doesn't mean others are as oblivious as you are.
I actually started using Svelte with 5.0 (about a week before it became stable). So I don't actually have any attachment to the older way of doing things.
But reading through the migration guide, it really feels like all the changes they made are sensible and done for a good reason. It's much more explicit and less magic this way.
SvelteKit really feels like the most "it just works" framework out there to me so far.
honestly, I actually like using Svelte 5 especially after using svelte 4 for a year. The "Predictability" is main factor for me to not hate Svelte 5 (also snippets, love em). In svelte 4, when looking at other people's code, it was seriously hard (rather time consuming) to figure out which variable is supposed to change and which is not.
I agree - I don't like it when there is too much magic under the hood.
I want to ask if there is stores in svelte 5 like that in svelte 4. It helps to manage props if there are multiple components right ? I was just getting strated with it in Svelte 4 and then 5 came out..
@@Kmps2341af I am not sure what you mean by "manage" but yes handling props is a bit easy in svelte 5 and less magical with $props and things like $bindable.
talking about stores, yes svelte 5 has stores (writable stuff) API as it is, just that now ruins are a "generalized" thing, it is better when possible to use them across app.
good luck 🤞
@Thankyou.
Don’t need stores because the Normal reactivity “runes” work outside of components.
I'm considering raising chickens. Chickens are cute...
cute? they're hideous!
They also don't have bugs 😅
@@awesome-coding About that. You'd be unpleasantly surprised.
I already started... i was hoping it would catch bugs in my code, but atleast i am getting 2 eggs per day
@@awesome-coding Chickens are just giant bugs
1 year later, Svelte 6 is a Completely Different Framework
Don't be mean! It'll be a least 2 years :D
better change name i just hate Svelte name 😅
In the end, Runes doesn't change much from before; it's just a different way to make the code more concise, readable, and therefore maintainable.
The form has shifted from "$: let count = 0" to "let count = $state(0)"; "$state" is not a function but a compiler directive just like "$:" was. I don't understand why someone would think it's similar to React; they are completely different things. 🤔
The word effect drive people mad i guess, i too was skeptink at the beginning and some things that were possible before now are tricky to achieve, but 90% of the code is better honestly so right now i'm totally in with runes. They provide the best DX still compared to the other frameworks because they rely a lot on the compiler.
The cope is hard
it is a function... nice try diddy. Just come over to react and learn it don`t be afraid.
the react PTSD is bad
In other words, after 5 years of stubbornes, both Angular and Svelte funal submitted that Solid was right all along.
Considering farming after being a web dev now
facts lol
The hope that keeps me going :D
People who think Svelte 5 is worse than 4 liked Svelte for the wrong reasons.
Vue has always had it right.
Just slow & buggy
Boy you are sleeping 😅. vue is fast as f. And in ssr, vue is faster than svelte@@everythingisfine9988
@@everythingisfine9988 as he said, always had it right, lol
And people will still not care. But react and react native are so good
Yea “nobody cares” yet it’s universally loved across all languages not just js. 😂
We laugh at the JS scrubs toiling between Js or Js 😂😂
It’s either Vue or Mithril for legitimate apps.
Complain complain complain. It's software. It changes. That's how it is. When things stop evolving they die out. Be grateful for the very clever brains that keep it moving along.
lol... 'newer is better' ...i take it you consider Win11 an improvement
There's a reason why people still love Laravel/PHP and are faithful to that framework. Seriously.. PHP in 2024. Because they do not get betrayed on an early basis. They do not use a framework that changes core functionality on a whim. THE HOLE SELLING POINT OF SVELTE (1) was the simplicity of it. This now ? THIS is 90% REACT. We already have React at home.
What dumb take, enjoy spinning the hamster wheel
Good software doesn’t “evolve” into an entirely new species every 6 months
Unfortunately, another way to "die out" is to "never be born" in the first place. If breaking changes keep piling up like this, people will eventually normalize them and stop paying attention. Right now, hardly anyone uses Svelte. Maybe some will in the future, but please don’t let it come to the point where nobody wants to use it.
"Write less, do more"? My ass. At this rate, it’s on track to become the "fart jar" framework. How is people writing less and doing more when they need to keep up with breaking changes like this. This is wrong.
For the average web app, sure, they all have very similar performance, but I rewrote a highly interactive drag n drop editor from React to Solid and holy shit it's night and day.
I believe it - Solid is so much lighter. In all honesty, I believe Vue and Svelte would have the same impressive performance thanks to their streamlined reactivity systems.
Solid is by far the best framework out of them all.
The less react out there, the better the web.
@@boccobadz I mean, React is generally good, has a large community and it allows you to use React Native, which is a game changer for solo devs/small startups, but if you're building heavily interactive apps, it's a no-go.
I am already into React so I will keep going. Take one and be very good at it. That is how I see frameworks
You are right - as I said in the video, at this point the difference between frameworks are mostly related to technical details and performance in special usecases.
I started to use Vue first and then discovered Svelte and liked it for it's simplicity but if they're just going to look the same, I'd rather user Vue and Nuxt because their community is bigger. I know Svelte was first at a lot of things but losing it's simplicity may be a mistake.
svelte 5 is awesome, we all should use it baby!!!!!!
its objectively better
@@kousheralam having used both react and vue 3 in big projects, I can say that these are... inferior to Svelte 5. Now in another big project (we'll be using micro frontend with SystemJS), we'll be using Svelte. 3 months now, so far Svelte hasn't disappointed me yet. Fast, dev friendly, and meets our requirements
Now just waiting for vue vapor to release
So we have pin-point reactivity in solid
pin-point reactivity in svelte
pin-point reactivity in vue
zoneless reactivity in angular
and react
Haha! Well said.
React feels like the solution with the most bloat at this point, even though they added the compiler.
Can't beat their ecosystem though :(
@@awesome-codingseriously what does React ecosystem offer that Vue doesn’t match?
Vue has full multiplatform support from desktop to mobile to embedded and is the default for ecosystems outside of JS.
Meta frameworks
Bootcamps
Books
UI libs
CMS
Starter Templates
SaaS Boilerplates
Events
Funding
Year over year growth
Public Roadmap
Check check check check check lol I think you like many just kinda say that as a programmed response but it hasn’t been true for quite some time.
Svelte however, just kicked its own ass back to ground zero 😂
Why is it so hard for people to give Vue credit (hint: it’s a threat) - which is so stupid!
This is what you get when a google engineer designs a framework versus when a journalist designs a framework, it took 4 years to arrive where Vue has been 😂
Oh the butt hurt is strong
It’s a f*** frontend library.
Back to react we go. Svelte loved by the developer is because it is different. Because it looks like a plain javascript. Even jquery looks like more javascript than svelte now.
Fair - their runes solution is really "in your face"
The main thing I don't like about the recent Svelte changes are the file naming requirements and the amount of files/folders that are needed to support them. Other than that, most everything is an improvement for people working on non-solo projects.
Just updated, it was painless. No reason to complain. It’s the same thing, runes just make everything predictable.
This is inaccurate on a couple of points. Svelte uses signals under the hood, just takes away the boilerplate. Svelte 5 rivals SolidJS and Vanilla JS in performance while also keeping the syntactic sugar of Runes. Speaking of Runes, the big deal there is that you don't have to make different versions of your code to run server-side as opposed to client-side. On the server where reactivity doesn't apply, the Runes are removed by the compiler in SvelteKit. This facet simply doesn't exist in other frameworks and is why Svelte moved away from $:, stores, etc. to Runes. Not to look more like other frameworks-which it does now only superficially-but for an enhanced developer experience you won't find anywhere else.
Directly from their announcement: svelte.dev/blog/svelte-5-is-alive
"If you change a single property of a reactive object in Svelte 4, the entire object is invalidated, because that’s all the compiler can realistically do. Meanwhile, other frameworks have adopted fine-grained reactivity based on signals, leapfrogging Svelte’s performance."
In other words, old compiler reactivity bad (it's pretty much dirty checking), new signals based reactivity good.
All other frameworks use the new reactivity, so we need to do it to.
That's what they say in their announcement. On top of that they had a bigger issue with store vs component reactivity having different implementations hence limitations. (Details www.builder.io/blog/reactivity-across-frameworks)
So a unified reactive system which is more performant was the main driver for introducing runes. The SSR benefits are just one of the outcomes.
I have a svelte 4 project written in over a year time span with so many npm packages installed. I cannot update to version yet until all npm packages have migrated to version 5. Looking forward when the project is migrated to it
Svelte 5 should be backwards compatible, just ignore the warnings npm gives you
Svelte 4 and 5 are interoperable, unless your packages rely on internal svelte 4 apis
First!!! best Js framework right now out there.
☝️
How is being backward-compatible being disruptive?
I cant predict the future, but I feel that by running into this problem early Angular might become more attractive because they adapted and worked out the issues, now a lot of these frameworks are having their Angular 2 moment but modern Angular is stable and introducing radical new features in a sustainable way.
You might be right.
One of Angular's biggest advantages is that they really have a team of really experienced professionals working full time on it.
I’d rather use JQuery than Angular 2
@@awesome-codinghell no. Angular team has no idea what it's doing. How many times did they completely change some fundamental aspect 5-10 versions in? Reactive Forms, new renderer, standalone components, now runes - all those things existed when Angular was in planing stage and should have been part of Angular since day one, but were ignored, because these people do not learn from others experience, only from their own mistakes, except you have to suffer with them because a lot of idiot managers bought into the marketing.
@@kassios Good for you
Svelte 5 is backwards compatible. So... Just write Svelte 4 and reap the benefits that libraries using Svelte 5 got to offer.
What I didn't like about Svelte, compared to Solid and React, is that it messes with your ability to express clean and transparent code using FP paradigms by hiding side effects. I don't think I will ever like it because of this.
This is a really good point!
I feel like this is a huge point, can you please elaborate?
with runes you can still pass around state
still compiler magic
makes the code hard to read
same problems v4 had
if you are gonna do compiler magic make sure it works without the compiler as well
I love svelte and Vue but I’m forced to use React since all the libraries I need are React-first. 😢
From what I see in the docs they updated their tutorial to svelte 5. Correct me if I am wrong.
For a begginer who want to pick an easy framework do create interactive web apps ( and doesnt care to find a job in the industry) do you suggest to learn svelte 5? If not what framework do you suggest?
You probably have a better time with NextJS React. When you're starting out, it's better if you have as many example out there as possible.
Am i the only one who hates the heavy push for server side frameworks? I like my websites to have a loading spinner, and then present a fully working page to the user with smooth experience, while server side frameworks have unpredictable behavior and jittery experience just because developers feel the need to overcomplicate things. Isnt this one of the reasons that chatgpt website moved away from nextjs to a different framework
Not to mention keeping seperate files for server and client makes perfect sense, while nextjs throws everything in one src file
SSR can significantly simplify things. it was the push towards CSR that overcomplicated web dev. not everything needs to run like a native app, and even still, its just a matter of updating parts of the page rather than calling a full refresh, reactive content binding, and a router to interface with the address bar.
I feel the same. Maybe for static websites, blogs or marketplaces SSR is a must, but for last 10 years I was working on different web apps (not websites) and they all require high interactivity, they do not need SSR. Things like dashboards, internal tools, apps that are protected by sign-in wall (so no SEO+SSR needed). SPA are perfect for that. Simple. Give it some REST API or WebSocket with a backend like Hono and that's it. Deno on top of it makes me love my web stack again.
@@anton-shubin-live thx i agree fully
yeah you are not the only one, the heavy push to server is because cloud providers want to make more money on resources. and client side frameworks don`t make them money when they run on the clients device.
@ivan.jeremic lol
Ah the angular 2 moment for svelte…😂😂
100%
0%
@@NimbleTron 50%?
@@awesome-coding deal 🤝
I would love to see svelte vs vue comparison.
There are a lot of those
@everythingisfine9988 probably yeah, I just like content made by OP
@paw565 Thank you!
I am considering doing a comprehensive comparison between React, Angular, Vue Svelte and Solid mostly because I believe they are very similar now.
I would very much like to watch that and send it to all the react evangelicals@@awesome-coding
same framework really...
Your animations are so good! How do you make them?
Thank you!
Adobe Premiere Pro, Photoshop, blood, sweat and tears.
Vanilla is much better now, I'll write my own solutions, thanks.
Famous last words :D
Vue is simply simple and great. People crying about performance, check its benchmark its still faster then react and other framework. U can argue solid might be faster then vue. But Vue is so simple and eazy to learn. Going from react to vue was a game Changing experience.
How easy compare to svelte? I am looking to learn it instead svelte as my default go to option..
@@vaisakh_kmvue, I'm learning vue when I was 15 years old back then. when it's vue 2 and options api
@@vaisakh_kmits so easy because its a html first framework, vue use valid html syntax instead of opinionated solution to have js or js-like in html, and this is why we can also use vue with cdn because build step is optional! my favorite things coming from react is working on input form, vue handle form gracefully
@@vaisakh_km use composition api, now that svelte 5 also gonna something similar to ref() it's more or less similar framework now.
@@vaisakh_km Been programming professionally in Svelte 4 / Kit for 2 years now as a SWE III. Switching to Vue 3 composition API atm for 3 months now, haven't tried Nuxt yet. SvelteKit is awesome, Svelte 4 and Vue 3 are basically same thing, Vue 3 less magic, closer to JS, Svelte 4 Actions... Node lifecycle actions and SvelteKit ActionResults are
Svelte is now React 2.0
Solid is React 2.0!
Svelte reminds me react ❤
if svelte being react-like is what you like about svelte, shouldn't you just use react?
exactly! Svelte becomes more and more like React
@@statuschannel8572 only svelte is reactive. Where react is not 😏
Everything reminds me of react these days.
Makes me glad I controlled my itch of jumping ships from Vue3 to Svelte 3 back in the day. I feel like a winner , betting on the right horse.
In all fairness, Vue is pretty good as well.
"...converge into one single library..." It's called Web Components. Any framework you choose will always suffer the issues described. With a standard API this is minimised.
You are right. I'm just wondering why people are so reluctant to use them.
so it becomes react, cool I've never learnt it
Fair!
🤔 So the question remains. Is Svelte still better than React? And more importantly what about SvelteKit vs NextJS?
If frontend frameworks are becoming similar doesn't it make more sense to got with Next?
There is no comparison... next and react are really complex and are trying to keep backward compatability... same with angular
but most other framework and really easy to learn and only has few robust concepts to build anything.. and things like svelte is battery included.. which is a bonus
Next is hard to self-host. And your statement doesn't make sense to me. I could just as easily say If frontend frameworks are becoming similar doesn't it make more sense to got with [SvelteKit|Fresh|Astro|Remix|etc]
@@vaisakh_km Batteries included is what I like to hear. Things like laravel, django etc. I want to focus on backend and databases Svelte like Rust and Go are one of the few technologies that excites me.
@@dezly-macauley 😅 i thought people are going to fight me like batteries included is a bad thing... that's one reason people hate angular... seems go popularised it
At the end of the day, the best framework in 2024 is the one you are the most productive in. The details between all these frameworks are minimal.
What I'm afraid is it will be next react, vue, angular all over again. Isn't svelte supposed to SIMPLIFY things ?
why is calling a function complicated for you? Shouldn`t you first learn to code before jumping into a framework?
People keeps inventing new frameworks to make frontend development easier, until to not writing code, and then they will realize there is thing called AI that can write vanilla Javascript, HTML, CSS on our behalf
Yes - that's pretty much the trajectory of web dev :D
I hope that day arrives soon. Frontend is painful for me lol
welcome to React Svelte devs lol
Haha fact!
isnt this just ref and reactive in vue
These are signals, which are different form Vue's proxy based reactivity, but the results are similar.
Astro my beloved...
Yep - V5 was released a few days ago.
ITS ALWAYS LIKE THIS ANGULAR, REACT NOW SVELTE.
And Vue, and Solid :)
the negative title for clickbait is not appreciated.
😅 Cute. Svelt is just discovering the things that the react team learned 10 years ago coming from KnockoutJs…
Knockout JS was right all along
This is not true, Svelte 5 is the same framework, but easier.
You have to learn only 4 new functions, and it makes dev easier for everyone.
i learned something, but nothing, but still something
That's my entire life summed up in one phrase
How did every main js fw became so bad?
Never seen a more obvious FireShip copy
So Svelte becomes Vue
Nope.. becomes React. Svelte is now 90% react , 70% Vue.
@@i3looi2 You clearly don't know 1% about svelte.. Just a React fanboy daydreaming
What is a dependencies array@@i3looi2
@tranquangthang8897 We don't know because the React compiler hides them away :D
"Predictability" 😂
It is indeed a different framework, but not in the good sense. It is no longer useful for creating little widgets and embeddable apps, it is just a monster optimized to own the entire APP. Crap
They have to be if they want to compete with the rest of the big guys :(
at this point there is not point of using svelte over react or vue because they become same...
That's a good thing for us devs.
+1 for raising chickens 😂
Angular :the real only different framework.
All the rest : lets copy each other on anything, keeping the same shitty way of putting everything in just one file and making ten files just for an homepage.
Proud to literally hate non angular frameworks. Sorry not sorry.
Angular is pretty sweet and actually pretty easy once you start getting into it
"Completely different framework" is wrong.
It's a rewrite from the ground up, and their main new selling point is removing what was previously making Svelte cool and different :))
I'd say it's a different framework.
@@awesome-coding no its not
@@ZAcharyIndy Agree to disagree? :))
@@awesome-coding Svelte 5 is cool.
anyone who said "completely" different, I guess they never code in Svelte 3 and 4
Does sveltekit work with svelte 5 now?
Another day, another jslib.
Now, new and improved ... React mixed with KnockoutJS syntax.
Its js, what do you expect 😂
😂
no performance is not the same! in svelte the heavy-lefting is done at build time not run time. run time.
Is this difference visible in your regular average web app?
@awesome-coding maybe I'm biased to svelte. But from my experience react and alikes pruduce tens or hundreds of KB for simple things (and people to reduce it with preact ...etc). While svelte is bare minimum.
“Providing a dev experience similar to the rest of the industry”…. That’s a terrible reason to do a full rewrite. Instead of leading you’re following.
So Svelte devs found out that their “reactive” strategy actually doesn’t work in larger projects. Nice.
Pretty much. They had to make the change though. In all fairness larger teams and bigger projects did it as well during the years. After all Angular, React and Vue went through 3 big rewrites / core changes in the past 10 years.
No thanks, Angular its fine to me
Shame!
Runes look a little like hooks but hey who am i
😅
U don't need framework to unify things, client should just act as CQRS, especially now with serve functions....
If I wanted react I would use react what a dumb change
second🎉
✌️
✌️
Ah, Svelte 5, finally here to liberate us from the age-old shackles of... writing the exact same CRUD app yet again! Amazing how every year front end frameworks discover a brand-new way to render a button, style a form, or toggle a modal! Who knew CRUD needed such a constant reinvention, right? I’m on the edge of my seat for Svelte 6 to show us the next revolutionary way to map over an array and display user names. Truly, the relentless innovation we’ve all been waiting for 😆 Can't wait to rewrite this exact app... for the 100th time. 🚀
Hey! You should handle marketing for them! You are pretty good at it 😅
Just use Vanilla JS at this point 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I am - it's called Solid JS :))
annnnd, i understood nothing
😅 sorry - I'll do a better job next time.
Svelte 5 sucks, it lost practically all the qualities that made it special in exchange for a more powerful and improved reactivity system that only a few will appreciate. In addition to introducing a horrible new syntax like snipets.
I'm a beginner in webdev with 6 months of svelte 4 and svelte 5 feels so much better! Runes make things explicit and it's really helpful when the project grows.
@@MadeInJack I've been developing for years now. Picked up Svelte 4 around when Svelte 5 was announced. Svelte 5 is so, so much better. People who prefer Svelte 4 weren't doing anything serious to begin with.
I thought the same when the first announcement of runes came, but in a year’s time the team behind it has simplified the concept enough for it to make sense. I’ve been using svelte since v2 and I did feel that I wouldn’t like this change, but I’ve actually enjoyed it. Especially since they made the sv cli that actually migrates about 80% of your codebase for you. The only downside that I’ve found is how props and slots are handled, especially in bigger and more complex code bases with this approach.
$props and #snippet implementation is horrible, IMO. Change from constructor to function initialization of components...common.... The rest of the changes can live with.
@@stevenstavrakis6605 I built an ecommerce platform from scratch with every possible feature you might expect, while keeping it fast and secure. Even did wss and my own payment handling, my own multi-selects, charts and other primary components, which tend to be the most complicated to get right.
Take it from me, nothing svelte 5 brings helps in any way. It's just uglier and less practical.
People just forgot writable() was a thing, and if your state got too complicated you could use that instead of "let something"...
Signals are nice, but not at the cost of everything else, and certainly not when the core concept of signals is ~25 lines of code you could polyfill.
FIreship 2
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