I feel like all the people hating on svelte 5, don't understand what an improvement this really is. Just take a moment and try to understand how signals work, and you will be blown away by its simplicity. Not like react at all.
@@kkebo i don't know if you used both in production but getting something from idea to live, up and running in svelte, is far easier than react. React has other pros, its not a "react" bad "svelte" good situation.
@@kkeboyou can get shit done eventually with React sure. You can also write your sites in C and get the same shit done. But as IronMaidzen said, I also don't think you've seriously used Svelte. (FYI I've worked with React a LOT including the newest NextJS) After truly having experienced the bliss Svelte brings you, working in React feels like a bureaucratic dystopia. I promise you. React is like filing an entire tax form to built any trivial small reactive element. Especially where it gets to complex components, the code length difference ratio between React and Svelte grows to about 5 to 1. Maybe more.
The benefits for a business to switch to svelte aren't just substantial enough to justify investing the time, resources etc to do it. Not to mention the lesser resource pool of svelte developers = costlier & harder to find/replace resources.
Svelte 5 looks awesome for people that appreciate code that is maintainable for a long time. Angular could have been the framework that does reactivity via compiler, they are basically 90% there. They already statically analyze all your code. But somehow they are scared or not willing to do it. I love what svelte is doing here. I'm tempted to rewrite one of my vue apps into svelte 5, just to get a feel for it.
New svelte looks awesome, but when I look at this, on every new feature I had on my mind only one thing - vue had this ages ago… but for no reason vue don’t have as much hype as it deserve
Vue2 to 3 migration was a mess and massively hurt the ecosystem so people moved on. Even messier than Python split years ago. At least that was my experience. And now most frameworks implement stuff Vue had for years but nobody remembers that.
Svelte 5 Introduces : 1. Universal Reactivity 2. Signals under the hood : state, derived 3. Nested CSS 4. Built-in Animations : Fade, Fly, Scale, Draw, Blur 5. use:actions - Can Integrate any library into svelte --- we don't need to download tons of dependency - redux, framer motions or any other library to manage this ...we have every feature that developer needs honestly svelte 5 made it to write clean code - easy to understand
#1 - Muddies the water and makes the code arguably worse to read, components should be reactive, everything else should just be normal vanilla logic, just try to debug a custom react hook for a second... #2 - Great, and and what's the real change over the hood? #3 - "npm i -D scss" + "
looks really good, I think Rich Harris' blog post captured a lot of what I found icky about Svelte and honestly can't think of a bad thing mentioned in this video. Definitely gonna spin up a Svelte 5 app soon
This looks fantastic, I wasn't sold initially but the upsides over the previous syntax are clear. Single reactivity system that is opt-in, no weird templating syntax for dealing with event handlers, extremely straighforward passing of props. Somehow this just seems to hit the initial design philosophy of svelte even more than its previous versions, this looks uncomplicated with no magic (even though under the hood there is clearly still magic). Some minor things I don't like have been brought up by Ben. I believe helpers for preventDefault, once, event bubbling etc should be built in, these are just too common so every project is going to define these pretty much globally right off the bat. Snippets I love the idea of, and I'm happy they added it, coming from Vue it had always been annoying to me that I need to make micro components for a component, even though that micro component is only used by that one component. But this implementation of snippets seems fairly limited, I hope they expand upon it. Thanks for the rundown Ben!
By god SVELTE 5 is a marvel, I love it so much, really since I tried svelte, I knew that this was my framework, and although I am relatively new to svelte, I got to witness its update. I think I've used it enough to say that the only thing that broke my heart are the event modifiers, please bring them back hahaha they were a precious jewel, they were always welcome and they speed up the work a lot.
I think the best take-away from this is no migration pain. Being able to jump into the newest major release is awesome. It's something that React fails horribly at. Migrating from VUE 2 to VUE 3 was pretty painless and continues to be so through 3.x. I think this is a pretty important metric that some frameworks seem to disregard. It sucks for developers to be version locked because of breaking changes due to a lack of foresight and consideration for backwards compatibility by the framework authors. Again something React and Angular are very guilty of.
Watching the web front end community reinvent the wheel every 6 years just to eventually end up with what they already had, declaring it too complex, then starting on the next mission to reinvent the wheel… always funny.
@@Vulume Not to this degree or this pace. I haven’t seen the same churn on desktop, game, or even mobile UI. Web tech sucks but rehashing the same frameworks and libraries over and over with new names and syntax differences doesn’t make it better. The root of the problem lies with the slow and inept W3C. Has since they formed.
@@JohnSmith-op7ls Very few people are writing desktop UIs, and even then web UI frameworks have come to the desktop. The big old ones are stuck and there are dozens of wrappers with their own paradigms that are often language specific. The churn is funny but great it's not for nothing, and if you account for the number of users it's not any worse than in desktop times.
@@Vulume It’s far worse than desktop, web is still struggling to provide what desktop apps were doing decades ago. Doesn’t matter how common desktop app dev is now, totally besides the point. Replace it with native mobile if you want and it still holds. Point is, web front end is held back by the incompetent W3C and people waste their time and energy on a treadmill trying to rehash more ways to do what desktop and native mobile apps have been doing for ages with far less hassle. HTML was never meant to do what it’s asked to, CSS has always been a hack to get it there, JS is awful, the APIs lag decades behind where they should be. I mean, HTTP didn’t even have a PUT verb until really late in the game. Imagine going two decades before the people making standards realized updates are a thing, and also they should be called PUT because being unintuitive is fun or something.
0:44 Hey, Ben dude, watch your words! IT IS FORTUNATE that THEO is SUPER INTO REACT world! Otherwise we would not even see your in the first place, lol :D
I am waiting for the next update in Svelte, where WebSocket support will be integrated natively, similar to how HTTP requests are handled. For example, functions like GET() or POST() could be used for HTTP, and similarly, WebSocket could be handled with a function like WS(). ✌️✌️
looks really nice. how does sveltekit functionality compare to nextjs? are there any glaring reasons to stay with next, other than the obvious smaller community and hiring pool?
Unpopular opinion, but I clicked the title and thumbnail to hear Theo's take on the release and feel a little rug pulled, even though I do enjoy this more comprehensive breakdown. It was just not what I was expecting and the host change for this subject could have been telegraphed better in the title and thumbnail.
Svelte is pretty much the same as Angular, but less complex and less powerful. Some basic syntax comparison: Svelte: const someState = $state(0) Angular: const someState = signal(0) Svelte: {#if source} {/if} Angular: @if (source) { } Svelte: action()}> Angular: --- Oh, and btw, Vue is almost the same as Angular
Man, I'm going to miss event modifiers so much. I like basically everything else I saw (and I was honestly very skeptical about runes), but the event changes I am really bummed about.
They are aware. Lucia the package is deprecated. Lucia the concept isn't. Lucia is now a guide for how to do auth, and that's what the svelte team added : following that guide to set up auth from the cli..
“Svelte 5 in like React”. This is the scariest thing i’ve heard since I fell in love with Svelte 😨 Please don’t tell me it has “useEffect” or something similar!!
what about sveltekit which use svelte 4 with the page store or all the export let data: LayoutServerData, etc etc ? It is part of the migration or it will be handle later by another version of sveltekit which will migrate all the core syntax with svelte 5 ?
I don't like the idea of having that many dollar symbols spread all around the code. That looks like jQuery. I would prefer something like: let reactive count = 1; const derivative double = count * 2; And something similar to $: for effect.
A DSL to basically deal with JS being a garbage language beyond simple animations. Language, folks, not the brave efforts of the folks trying to mitigate that garbage by magic in V8 and Deno. Luckily, there is a handful of proper languages targeting that same execution environment.
Didn't know Jack Harlow was so into web dev
my thoughts exactly 😅
💀
😂
I started watching after reading your comment and for a second I actually thought Ben was Jack Harlow hahah
@@ricardor8044this!
0:20 I almost expected Rich Harris to show up xdd
Same lmao
all we get is poor harris
Lowkey expected Theo to walk out and just come back with another t-shirt on.
Black hoodie!
I feel like all the people hating on svelte 5, don't understand what an improvement this really is. Just take a moment and try to understand how signals work, and you will be blown away by its simplicity. Not like react at all.
0:45 "The soy React world" - the phrase made my day, ty
svelte is my fav framework
Music to my years! Yes Svelte 5 is better. Better than nextJS, switch today, thank me later.
Svelte is such a blessing for getting shit done.
you could say the same thing with React.
@@kkebo no, use both and then you will see. Don't get this as react bad, svelte good. For complex/enterprise apps I would rank react over svelte.
@@kkebo i don't know if you used both in production but getting something from idea to live, up and running in svelte, is far easier than react. React has other pros, its not a "react" bad "svelte" good situation.
@@kkeboyou can get shit done eventually with React sure. You can also write your sites in C and get the same shit done. But as IronMaidzen said, I also don't think you've seriously used Svelte. (FYI I've worked with React a LOT including the newest NextJS) After truly having experienced the bliss Svelte brings you, working in React feels like a bureaucratic dystopia. I promise you. React is like filing an entire tax form to built any trivial small reactive element. Especially where it gets to complex components, the code length difference ratio between React and Svelte grows to about 5 to 1. Maybe more.
glad to see ben on this video!
Thanks!
wait
@@bholmesdev😂
Svelte 5 is good and all but.. can we talk about how Ben has adopted Theo's mannerisms??
😂
It's the shirt.
It shows how we're shaped by our environment!
is contagious xD , but gives you powers
I hate that it's automatic brain process and you can't just not adopt someone else mannerisms
The issue with non-React/Angular frameworks is that it's much harder to get a job in
The benefits for a business to switch to svelte aren't just substantial enough to justify investing the time, resources etc to do it. Not to mention the lesser resource pool of svelte developers = costlier & harder to find/replace resources.
We just switched away from react at work and boy is everyone in the team happy we don’t have to deal with react anymore.
I‘d rather sleep under a bridge and loot trashcans for a living than working with Angular again.
yes and ReAcT hAs biGgEr eCoSisTem
Well, if you dont know how to sell it, yes.
i've never seen such an upgrade run this easily and smoothly!
Theo, if you are held in Rich's basement and are forced to say good things about something other than React, blink twice.
Rich doesnt need force, he is the Web Jesus, he preaches and people come.
Svelte 5 looks awesome for people that appreciate code that is maintainable for a long time. Angular could have been the framework that does reactivity via compiler, they are basically 90% there. They already statically analyze all your code. But somehow they are scared or not willing to do it. I love what svelte is doing here. I'm tempted to rewrite one of my vue apps into svelte 5, just to get a feel for it.
Svelte is what Angular wants to be.
Svelte is supreme for enjoying your day to day.
New svelte looks awesome, but when I look at this, on every new feature I had on my mind only one thing - vue had this ages ago… but for no reason vue don’t have as much hype as it deserve
This, this, a million times this.
Yes! I'm glad I'm not the only one.
It is literally Vue3 composition API
Vue2 to 3 migration was a mess and massively hurt the ecosystem so people moved on. Even messier than Python split years ago. At least that was my experience. And now most frameworks implement stuff Vue had for years but nobody remembers that.
Svelte 5 Introduces :
1. Universal Reactivity
2. Signals under the hood : state, derived
3. Nested CSS
4. Built-in Animations : Fade, Fly, Scale, Draw, Blur
5. use:actions - Can Integrate any library into svelte
---
we don't need to download tons of dependency - redux, framer motions or any other library to manage this ...we have every feature that developer needs
honestly svelte 5 made it to write clean code - easy to understand
nr 4 and 5 have existed since svelte 3, nested css also if you used a preprocessor using lang="..." syntax.
#1 - Muddies the water and makes the code arguably worse to read, components should be reactive, everything else should just be normal vanilla logic, just try to debug a custom react hook for a second...
#2 - Great, and and what's the real change over the hood?
#3 - "npm i -D scss" + "
all what you had in solidjs for long
now I want to see ryan carniato in theo's studio .. please make it happen 😂
looks really good, I think Rich Harris' blog post captured a lot of what I found icky about Svelte and honestly can't think of a bad thing mentioned in this video. Definitely gonna spin up a Svelte 5 app soon
This looks fantastic, I wasn't sold initially but the upsides over the previous syntax are clear. Single reactivity system that is opt-in, no weird templating syntax for dealing with event handlers, extremely straighforward passing of props.
Somehow this just seems to hit the initial design philosophy of svelte even more than its previous versions, this looks uncomplicated with no magic (even though under the hood there is clearly still magic).
Some minor things I don't like have been brought up by Ben. I believe helpers for preventDefault, once, event bubbling etc should be built in, these are just too common so every project is going to define these pretty much globally right off the bat.
Snippets I love the idea of, and I'm happy they added it, coming from Vue it had always been annoying to me that I need to make micro components for a component, even though that micro component is only used by that one component.
But this implementation of snippets seems fairly limited, I hope they expand upon it.
Thanks for the rundown Ben!
Svelte is awesome, i love it so much!
By god SVELTE 5 is a marvel, I love it so much, really since I tried svelte, I knew that this was my framework, and although I am relatively new to svelte, I got to witness its update.
I think I've used it enough to say that the only thing that broke my heart are the event modifiers, please bring them back hahaha they were a precious jewel, they were always welcome and they speed up the work a lot.
An endorsement for anything not related to the React/NextJS ecosystem coming from Theo says a lot.
Edit: Wait, it's not him! lmao
Svelte is a blessing to web dev
Nice video, just started to dive into Svelte 5 and SvelteKit. Looks great.
wow this might be my favorite vid on the channel
Surely Theo is aware that title is very scary to svelte people
Love this! found ben through the algorithm when he made the video about switching stacks. I didn't know he did Theo's thumbnails!
I think the best take-away from this is no migration pain. Being able to jump into the newest major release is awesome. It's something that React fails horribly at. Migrating from VUE 2 to VUE 3 was pretty painless and continues to be so through 3.x. I think this is a pretty important metric that some frameworks seem to disregard. It sucks for developers to be version locked because of breaking changes due to a lack of foresight and consideration for backwards compatibility by the framework authors. Again something React and Angular are very guilty of.
I svelte this in my soul
Epic collab! I remember finding Ben when he did a lot of Golang videos
I’m rooting for Svelte and Vue. These two are the best IMO
I love Theos faces on the thumbnails, it looks like he just sat on a bag of grapes.
Glad to hear it’s out and about. Sounds like a great excuse to get into it again
Watching the web front end community reinvent the wheel every 6 years just to eventually end up with what they already had, declaring it too complex, then starting on the next mission to reinvent the wheel… always funny.
based
This has been going on since before the web. UI is hard. It's a bigger mess on desktop thb.
@@Vulume Not to this degree or this pace. I haven’t seen the same churn on desktop, game, or even mobile UI. Web tech sucks but rehashing the same frameworks and libraries over and over with new names and syntax differences doesn’t make it better.
The root of the problem lies with the slow and inept W3C. Has since they formed.
@@JohnSmith-op7ls Very few people are writing desktop UIs, and even then web UI frameworks have come to the desktop. The big old ones are stuck and there are dozens of wrappers with their own paradigms that are often language specific. The churn is funny but great it's not for nothing, and if you account for the number of users it's not any worse than in desktop times.
@@Vulume It’s far worse than desktop, web is still struggling to provide what desktop apps were doing decades ago. Doesn’t matter how common desktop app dev is now, totally besides the point. Replace it with native mobile if you want and it still holds.
Point is, web front end is held back by the incompetent W3C and people waste their time and energy on a treadmill trying to rehash more ways to do what desktop and native mobile apps have been doing for ages with far less hassle.
HTML was never meant to do what it’s asked to, CSS has always been a hack to get it there, JS is awful, the APIs lag decades behind where they should be. I mean, HTTP didn’t even have a PUT verb until really late in the game. Imagine going two decades before the people making standards realized updates are a thing, and also they should be called PUT because being unintuitive is fun or something.
Ben's way of articulation was very good. Very similar to Theo's.
Runes and snippets are actually better that previous suntax
Svelte has always been better than React.
As a PHP developer, I am thrilled to see more dollar signs.
Tanstack Start + Query with Svelte 🤤
Always bet on Rich Harris.
It seems like Svelte is trying to appeal to a certain demographic of web developers. I dont know who asked for these changes but good for them tho !
Yes, the developers who enjoy DX
@@justinoneill2837 Not really, but to each their own
6 minutes ago is crazy
17:03 I don't like how it feels like Angular
Yeah reminds me of ng content
Still more into Vue than Svelte but looks cool
0:44 Hey, Ben dude, watch your words! IT IS FORTUNATE that THEO is SUPER INTO REACT world! Otherwise we would not even see your in the first place, lol :D
Wow the sv cli is really cool especially how it integrates auth, although Lucia is being deprecated :(
Wow! Sharing the mic! Kudos!!
Zuck is the copycat GOAT
His team will take their good ideas and bring it over to React , as he should 😊
I am waiting for the next update in Svelte, where WebSocket support will be integrated natively, similar to how HTTP requests are handled. For example, functions like GET() or POST() could be used for HTTP, and similarly, WebSocket could be handled with a function like WS(). ✌️✌️
being able to run svelte 5 with Deno 2 is awsome, no prettier, eslint or vitest. Less config, more building
I've been meaning to test DENO v2 out but I dunno where this leaves PNPM
looks really nice. how does sveltekit functionality compare to nextjs? are there any glaring reasons to stay with next, other than the obvious smaller community and hiring pool?
I misread the title and got excited. I thought it said "Svelte 5 is like React, But Butter"
hmm, i think the event dispatcher should be good one…
Svelte 5 solves those issues via : host feature and honeslty we can pass events form child to parent comp via props
17:19 that's really good.
that got me suprised ngl
same
Can we do the same but for Vue/Nuxt? 😲🔥
"soy react world", wonderful burn sir!
Unpopular opinion, but I clicked the title and thumbnail to hear Theo's take on the release and feel a little rug pulled, even though I do enjoy this more comprehensive breakdown. It was just not what I was expecting and the host change for this subject could have been telegraphed better in the title and thumbnail.
I haven't use the bun package manager yet. What's the advantage over pnpm?
I believe it's faster written in rust.. but DENO v2 is out now
EDIT:
- BUN is written in Zig
- DENO is written in Rust
- NODE is written in C++
So YOURE the guy that is putting together the clickbait fake tweets? Smh
little do they know, I make almost all of those myself...
😂
thanks for the download, great stuff
I told my 2y old, Ben, that this guy here is also named Ben. Now everytime he sees Ben, he says he’ll save him from work and bring him home 🤣
How is that like react? 😅 its closer to vue than anything
soy theo vs chad ben 😆
Svelte is pretty much the same as Angular, but less complex and less powerful.
Some basic syntax comparison:
Svelte:
const someState = $state(0)
Angular:
const someState = signal(0)
Svelte:
{#if source}
{/if}
Angular:
@if (source) {
}
Svelte:
action()}>
Angular:
---
Oh, and btw, Vue is almost the same as Angular
Man, I'm going to miss event modifiers so much. I like basically everything else I saw (and I was honestly very skeptical about runes), but the event changes I am really bummed about.
This might be a pretty easy fix with actions?
Lucia, one of the packages it proposes to install, is no longer maintained as of 3 days ago
Been acknowledged, they are going to switch it out soon.
They are aware. Lucia the package is deprecated. Lucia the concept isn't. Lucia is now a guide for how to do auth, and that's what the svelte team added : following that guide to set up auth from the cli..
Good job dude! I'll checkout your channel :)
The snippet and render syntax is so ugly. I prefer anything that renders to have an element tag syntax .
Cross-over episode!!!
Svelte runes are literally Vue3 composition..
I loved the event listeners how they where, f em
I always wanted someone read the documentation for me
Love Ben's channel. Go Ben!
“Svelte 5 in like React”. This is the scariest thing i’ve heard since I fell in love with Svelte 😨 Please don’t tell me it has “useEffect” or something similar!!
"TODO LINK TO TUTORIAL" xD
Svelte 5 is finally here?!
Svelte 5 was the one that pushed me into nextjs. Although the svelte cli looks amazing... Can we have the same in next now?
I am so so tired of the 15+ frameworks / libraries in the JavaScript ecosystem.
🎻
what about sveltekit which use svelte 4 with the page store or all the export let data: LayoutServerData, etc etc ? It is part of the migration or it will be handle later by another version of sveltekit which will migrate all the core syntax with svelte 5 ?
But I move from react to svelte because svelte is not like react.
So Svelt is becoming old React, while React is becoming old Svelt... I miss programming.
Hey, Ben here is awesome!
killing it on the content
collaboration
No fucking way. Ben Davis? WAIT YOU MAKE HIS THUMBNAILS?
I don't like the idea of having that many dollar symbols spread all around the code. That looks like jQuery. I would prefer something like:
let reactive count = 1;
const derivative double = count * 2;
And something similar to $: for effect.
Ironically, $: was the reason I never adopted Svelte.
You missed it bro!
Soy React world earned an instant like from me 🤣
Awkward that they put lucia in the sv cli, it just got deprecated :)
Everything is apparently better than react even react!
What is Jack Harlow doing here?
I love this Theo, great watch ❤😅
9:40 how would it work when lucia is being deprecated
bringing Jack Harlow to explain svelte is a bit excessive but ok
A DSL to basically deal with JS being a garbage language beyond simple animations. Language, folks, not the brave efforts of the folks trying to mitigate that garbage by magic in V8 and Deno.
Luckily, there is a handful of proper languages targeting that same execution environment.
vanilla js 4 life
This video was sponsored by Theo🙃
Why do you'll accept this nonsense... it is all so unreasonably complicated... don't get it.
Because it isnt.
@@erickmoya1401 believe me, it is. let alone you have to wrap all dynamic values in a wrapper makes all things so complicated and cumbersome.
Well.. I don't know man... it's just like your personal opinion. I haven't tried it so I don't have an opinion.