Caribbean MD vs. DO? | OldPreMeds Podcast Ep. 310
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ย. 2022
- This premed was accepted to a Caribbean MD school- but wants to know if they should hold out for a DO acceptance in the states.
Our question this week is taken from the Premed Hangout. (Ask your own questions at medicalschoolhq.net/apply/!)
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Why am I watching this I literally am in medical school procrastinating
LMAO me too.
Let's get back to studying 😂
HAHA ya same!
Lol so relatable!
😂
I don't wanna even go to medical school I'm already in another field
People care too much about the MD title to the point where they go to the Caribbean to avoid the DO title despite the Caribbean being MUCH worse than DO. Regardless I think people should do whatever they need to do to make their physician dream possible.
FACTS patients don't even give af. They just want to be seen by a physician.
MD and DO are essentially the same nowadays.
What makes the Caribbean much worse? Can you be more specific??
@@Ledaddy236
1) You’re not taught by MDs or DOs because the schools cant get any.
2) Curriculum is bad so you use outside resources to teach you materials for USMLE
3) Since its not in the US, you’re an IMG so you have almost half the chances of matching into anything as compared to a US med student with the same stats.
4) tuition is 1.5 to 2x as high as normal med schools, its pretty normal to be almost 500k in debt as opposed to the US med school average of 250-300k.
5) any signs of failure within the program and they kick you out before you fail USMLE and make their stats look bad for more future applicants that fall into their predatory trap. US med school help you to graduate while carribean med school just want your money.
Look online, there are more stories of students explaining their time there.
@@Ledaddy236 Caribbean medical schools are for profit plus you’re not promised to match in the US. They’re very expensive. People would go to the Caribbean just to avoid the DO title. If you have a choice between a DO school and the Caribbean then chose DO.
As a Caribbean student, I’d say first hand to choose DO. Though I had a traumatic event occur 2 weeks before my MCAT (my 4 year old passed away unexpectedly), I was on the wait list for two DO schools & only got a “yes” from a Caribbean school. I am at one of the “big 4” but hear me, if you can make a Caribbean school your last choice please do so. I am actually doing well thus far in my studies but it is NO CAKE WALK! It’s a business here, I’ve seen it with my own 2 eyes. Weigh your pros & cons.
You have my condolences. I cannot even begin to imagine what it must have been like to go through all of that and on top of it take the MCAT 2 weeks later. Good luck in the Caribbean, sounds like you know what you're doing and are very capable!
Yep- informed decisions are key! Thanks for sharing.
How do they approach clinicals in the event of storms/huricanes at Curebean medical schools? In the event of poweroutages? Do Do students trained at an American school have the same rights and privilidges after they graduate and complete all required training and test as MD students who are trained at an American school?
@@davidsoto4394 They train at US hospitals. You don't do clinicals in the Caribbean. You do have the same privileges but its not that easy though.
Octavia. I am writing on a friends account because I don’t really do social media. I felt compelled to let you know that I died once when I was 11 I grew up in a home where I did not go to church or synagogue. I believe in God.… But in a more metaphysical spiritual way, I’m saying this because I want you to know that when I crossed it was the most peaceful, loving feeling that I’ve ever experienced in my life. I want you to know that our soul really does continue. I was very much a live on the other side just without a body. as horrible as it is to lose your child which I can’t even begin to understand the pain and I’m so sorry about that… I just want you to know that her soul really does live on and she experiences your entire life with you just in another dimension. even if it’s hard to wrap our minds around it I now know that it’s true and it has nothing to do with anything that anyone has taught me in a religious institution. Please know that she sees you and she’s proud of everything that you’re doing and if you allow her to show you signs that are meaningful to you, he will start seeing them be open to it. Lots of love to you.❤❤❤❤
I grew up in the Caribbean and can confirm 3 important points. First, at least where I am from there are many American medical students because they couldn't get into any U.S school.
Second, the quality, rigor and overall infrastructure of the program is way lower than any accredited U.S. medical school ( we don't even require the MCAT). Third (this one is interesting) Even with the lower quality, there are MANY doctors in the U.S who came here to study medicine, went back to the U.S, passed the required equivalency examination that he mentioned, got into a residency and today are decent/great doctors with long careers. Which makes you think about how many students are not accepted in U.S medical schools who have the capacity of being perfectly competent doctors under U.S standards but the competitive nature of medical schools does not give them a chance. The requirements and holistic review is too strict.
It needs to be emphasized how expensive Caribbean MD schools have become. It is not unusual to end up $400,000 in debt. If you never match, which does happen, that money has to be paid back. You have to be a good student with excellent study habits and a burning passion for medicine that will get you thru the competition and hard times at a foreign school and allow you to be one of the 60+% of American IMGs who match.
I can’t believe people are still asking this. I mean it feels like it’s 1985 when someone asks this question. DO is so much safer than Caribbean. Having said that there are some excellent physicians from AUC, Ross and St George’s.
"some"
DO is not inferior to MD. In 2020, they officially merged, and residency programs are no longer MD versus DO-they are, in fact, grouped together. I know surgeons who are DOs. My obgyn was a DO who delivered my babies. All excellent doctors. Your MCAT score does not determine whether or not you will be a good doctor. It only determines which med school you may get into.
@@SejalofManhattan Yes I am glad we agree!
As a 3rd Year DO Medical student that turned down multiple MD school acceptance letters, anyone can be a wonderful doctor. I chose to peruse my medical education and become an Osteopathic Physician under my own decision, and I have absolutely no regrets
As a DO can you apply to any residency’s without being discriminated upon? Because I heard both the DO council and MD council are merging their residency programs
@@xplicitgoofy1015 Some residency directors have a bias toward DOs and some have a bias toward MDs, it is very program dependent.
@@kenmit007 I know but still that bias is decreasing every year there is absolutely no difference between the two degrees you learn the same things like I mean the same exact things only difference is DO at the end of your name instead of MD. I mean like the old ages are over and a lot of understanding directors won’t have a bias
@@kenmit007 Like I met this residency director and he was like “I only like MD applicants” I slapped him and was telling me how wrong he was to have a bias for only MD applicants and after that he changed his views
(This is a joke don’t take it serious lol)
@@xplicitgoofy1015 I am a current DO medical student. You are almost correct. DO medical graduates also have 500+ hours of OMM (OMT) training.
Caribbean/ UAG in Mexico produce excellent Doctors. Easy in-hard to get out. Both countries you have to pass the same boards(USMLE) as US counterparts. I know many doctors from both countries in all specialties. It can be done. You put in the work, you will get it done. If others have done why not you? Mexico (UAG is the only accredited US School and the only school you can get medical school loans) has been providing US doctors for >40 years. Nothing against DO's, but as an IMG, you'll have the "stigma awhile" but you will have "MD" after your name. As a DO, you have it your entire career. It is what it is.
This was excellent advice! I have erstwhile PA colleagues who went to Caribbean schools and are attending MD s (one went to OUM). However, they told me that they were HIGHLY motivated AND, totally supported by family. I can't imagine how tough it's going to be for IMGs now, with the STEPs being "P/F"! 🤔👋🏽👨🏽⚕️
The merge of DO residencies under the MD accreditation body (ACGME) has further narrowed the gap between the 2. However, if you plan on going DO and want to specialize, most DOs take both COMLEX and USMLE boards (both step 1 and 2). Just some additional hoops to jump through when going DO.
Not true anymore, COMLEX is now equivalent to USMLE. a lot of programs have started to accept if you only have COMLEX. This is a new thing, so I am sure with every year more and more programs will be like this. More important is still recommendations; general scores; etc.
I think a very important point that was made was to research the school. Especially if it's not one of the big 4, you really need to find out if the accreditation is valid and if you'll be able to sit for exams/apply for residency.
The hurdles are massive even for USMD let alone DO and Caribbean
My son is in first year DO and elected over Caribbean! He loves it.
I am an AUC parent, my son passed his Step 1 on his first try, now doing his 3rd year rotations in NYC. He did not wait or re-apply after getting his BS. This is how I look at it. If you are trying to match into Ortho, Plastic, or Dermatology, forget about Caribbean schools because the chance is really rare (I don't think DO has much chance either). However, if you are just aiming at IM or FM, it is actually very doable. Each year the big 4 (or 5) pumps hundreds of students into residency in primary care ( with still some in surgery, EM,, etc....) Life is hard on the island and they really have to study hard because the schools will try to weed them out during the first 2 years. However, if you can get out 1 or 2 years early without waiting for another 1 or 2 cycles, that's additional $250K to 600K of earning capacity! That's especially important for the non-traditional.
DO has a significantly higher chance than IMG at matching competitive specialties, albeit still less than USMD. My school matches multiple students to the specialties you listed.
Buddy, DO has a much much higher chance of matching to comp residencies compared to IMGs. Idk where you got that notion that they’re on equal playing fields. If anything IMGs go into primary care at much higher rates compared to DOs
Excellent video.
St. George has a deal that if you start there and then get accepted to a US Medical School they will refund the tuition for the first semester.
Try 2 cycles and then go Carrib. Ross>sgu imo cause they have good USCE.
You’re 100% right about that MCAT it’s no way getting around it.
DO is not inferior to MD. In 2020, they officially merged, and residency programs are no longer MD versus DO-they are, in fact, grouped together. I know surgeons who are DOs. My obgyn was a DO who delivered my babies. All excellent doctors. Your MCAT score does not determine whether or not you will be a good doctor. It only determines which med school you may get into.
Why even ask this? The stats are clear. Go DO
I love your shirt.
I’m just gonna say this. Don’t go to the Caribbean if you’re not willing to put in the work. I have 5+ family friends who went there and came out successfully because they busted ass. I’m not a fan of the negativity that surrounds individuals who go there because at the end of the day, they’re doctors contributing to our broken healthcare system and physician shortage. The elitist culture of this community is a large contributor to why people are opting out of becoming doctors and instead are pursuing PA/NP among other things. I think that if someone is going to opt for the Caribbean route, they need to know it won’t be a cake walk. Getting in is the easy part, staying there and remaining competitive is another story. This isn’t an endorsement to go Carribean but these schools mainly the big 4, offer and opportunity to students and if they come in ready to rock then they should be ok. Just my input. Good luck to everyone applying now or in the future :)
Thank you for this comment!!! That’s exactly it - getting in is the easy part, passing and making it to graduation is the hard part. It’s not just going through the regular medical curriculum, it’s doing it while live in a foreign country with suboptimal and even scary or unhealthy living conditions, professors who up and leave without notice, and some weird policies, on top of catching illnesses from a foreign place your body isn’t used to, among other things. If you can make it through Caribbean medical education, you can make it through anything!!
Thank you for that sentiment. People don’t realize how hard it is to actually study at a foreign medical school, getting in is the easy part making it out is very difficult. It is not easy. Be prepared to work very hard, and be very accommodating in terms of living conditions.
As a graduate of a Caribbean top 4 med school and a current resident physician in the US, I agree with most of your observations. However, I just want to add the following: 1. Not as difficult to get in but I have met applicants who were not accepted. 2. Be prepared to work extra hard as the curriculum is similar to US med schools but without the “university support”. 3. Attrition rate 11:07 is much higher so at the end the high achievers are left that can succeed anywhere. 4. Top 6 Caribbean medical schools should only be considered. 5. Clinical rotations are in the US. 5. As an IMG certain specialities are extremely difficult to enter because certain programs want US med graduates. That is the reality. 6. DO degree only recognized in the US so not able to work in another country if so desired later on. 7. The most important aspect regardless of whether you studied in the US or elsewhere is that everyone must write the USMLEs. Again, IMGs must work harder as compared to US med students. 8. Caribbean schools are for profit but are run by American physicians who are familiar with the US healthcare system. To conclude, you must be a very good student, self-motivated, disciplined , determined and resilient to succeed as a Caribbean med student. If you have these traits, I would recommend if other options are not viable but I would do a MD degree over a DO just for its universal acceptance.
This is just wrong, there are like 65 countries that allow US DOs full practice authority. There is no reason to go to a Caribbean school over a US DO besides ego and wanting MD after your name
@@Medicineandlacrosseand not getting in of course. Remember DO schools have 6-8% acceptance rates which are extremely competitive too but not quite US MD level (3-4% acceptance rates).
You should talk to people about the Oschner School in Australia and the Sackler one. They seem to have match rates about the same as DO without the OMM. Seems like it'd work for people who don't mind living way far away. Also, they have the possibility of getting clinical experience while waiting for another round of match.
I'd add the caveat to 8:02 -- ONLY if you are willing to make a huge gamble and if you have HUGE reserves of money, that you would be fine with spending 100K out of to just "give it a shot." If you can't make it into a US school MD or DO after 4 cycles, I think that just jumping to the islands carries a huge risk of even deeper debt with nothing to show.
All great advice, for sure. But the question was: Caribbean MD vs. DO. Right?
It's a terrible video.
The licensure has changed as California has stopped using an approved list. They are now using ECFMG certification as the barrier.
Poland's Entry test for med school is pretty competitive to the MCAT.
Are you sure?
@@emeksb4823 No
The match rate for DOs is the same as MDs this year, around 92%, match rate for US-IMGs was in the 50s%.... the facts speak for themselves. This shouldnt even be a question.
But for specialties it's harder, right?
Hi. Are schools in PR like the med school in Ponce considered Caribbean?
Medicine has changed dramatically. MD/DO is way to go. Foreign med schools are much easier to get in but is a big gamble. One must do very well academically and score very well in boards to get recognized. A lot of time and sacrifice will be invested to fight a big uphill battle. Although there is a lack of doctors nationwide, PAs and NPs have been filling the need. It all depends on what your goals are. If you don't get in the US, and you really want to be an MD and accept all the risks, that is fine but one must seriously look for alternatives if they do not match to residency.
I have friend of mine he told me to go to UNIBE medical school do you think it’s a good idea it’s the only medical school accredited here in the United States and there’s a few doctors graduates from there your advice
What about us Med school?
I agree with the advice not to go to a Caribbean medical school unless you have to, but would argue there is no reason you should ever have to go to a Caribbean medical school.
Yes there is. Canadian means I can't get in US DO even if I had a 520 MCAT.
@@hansomekim1219 I am not Canadian and thus cannot speak to your intricacies, but I stand by my comment for domestic US students.
@@Orangesoda65 I agree with you
I agree with many of your comments. I was wait listed three yrs in a row had to shit or get off the pot according to my Dad. So I went to sgu without regret. Did a competitive surgery residency, then a fellowship. Nobody gave a crap where I went to school during my residency No interest in a DO.
To me a DO had a lot more negatives.
I had a good gpa and mcat. Med school was super hard. Sgu has gotten extremely competitive as well. Good luck if you want it bad enough you can make it happen!
Here we go AGAIN
Delay clinical experience and go to Caribbean school? What if you find out you actually don't care being around patients in medical school? Risky move.
I want a zoom in of your tshirt please...what does it say????
A lot of St. George’s kids do clinicals at one of hospitals I work In Bronx and they’re pretty good. And my second job hire mainly New York medical grads and they’re so bad at Medicine lol. They’re clueless . Lol Caribbean or American schools one thing I’ve learned being in the medical field all my life is you can’t teach passion. I’m currently a pre-med student and I am planning on going to D.O and no I don’t have a low GPA. I think Lecomm fit my lifestyle and that’s my main choice. One of my best friends used to be a nurse and he’s now a Doctor from St. George’s and he’s the only one they hire to be an attending
2023 match rates for IMG (U.S and Non-U.S) vs D.O were 67% vs 91.8% respectively. Choose wisely. Cheers😊
Little deceiving data, it tends to be very school specific; sgu has a 97% match rate, schools in Mexico are in the 50s.
Is studying medicine in Ireland a good choice?
Yes cos if the US doesn’t work out for getting a residency you can practice in Ireland, UK. And after you practice in the UK or Ireland you can also go to Australia, New Zealand … so it keeps more doors open.
No
Laughed when i saw the thumbnail
Carribean MD is on the bottom of the totem pole. Programs usually go USMD>USDO>>>>>FMG(graduates who aren’t US citizens)>>>>IMG(Caribbean grads).
Yeah I agree with you. Tell that to the IMG Neonatologist who has to be Board certified in Pediatrics(3 years of Residency) followed by 3 years of PeriNatal/Neonatal Medicine and pass the Board Certification for Neonatology. You know who is consulting that IMG Neonatologist? The US Pediatricians. Get outta here with that logic. My Son is a Pediatric Cardiologist who went to UAG. You know who consults him? US Pediatricians mainly. Follow the logic here......Oh BTW, he makes double what the US Pediatricians MD make. It just comes down to how hard you bust your butt. IT CAN BE DONE!!! Wh have one Interventional Cardiologist where I am from. Guess where he is from? A US IMG. Where do you think his consults come from? Right, you're getting it. It is not the Med School People. It is what is in your brain and your skill set. Period.
@@armandosolis3560 then send all your grand kids there
@@Seansyy62 As long as they make more money than you, why not!!!
Silly comment
if you score well on the USMLE step 1 and step 2 like getting above a 260 and graduate from a Caribbean medical school, can I match you to top hospitals like Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Cleveland clinic, UCSF, etc.?
Ofc you can for IM. But if you want to do Int Rads or plastics you can too but at community hospitals. Idk if you know how high a 260 is tho.
America needs doctors. Go carrib if u must.
Quick story, when I was younger, I hurt my neck and went to an MD and he ended up putting me on muscle relaxants and pain pills. I was having migraines at the time and none of this was doing me any good. I was walking around in a haze then I remembered a DO that my parents took me to as a kid, and he was still practicing so I decided to see him . He simply had me lay down and popped my neck and spine and the next day I had almost total relief no more migraines and no more migraines in the last 42 years. I also find The DO’s more approachable than MDs. This is generally speaking. Obviously, there are some great MDs out there, but in this situation that I was in the DO was able to solve my problem.
DOs are not some subpar physicians let’s get that straight 😐
I personally choose DO and I always well 👍
What if I go to China for medical
Order the #44. Mandarin chicken with snow pea. It’s delicious!
@@edhcb9359 Funny… not
Medical schools in Taipei are excellent if you can gain admission.
if you're goal is to practice in the US, IMGs, regardless of where they're from, will face greater difficulty gaining residency admission
The only thing that is easy about a Caribbean School is that it is easier to get into. That is it.
At the end of the day you many many IMG that are doctors giggling in the US while the haters flock the internet to be negative. US medical schools have ridiculous requirements and non-trads are sometimes in a position to never be able to make up those requirements. So you either have a chance of going Caribbean or having a 0 percent chance of becoming a physician. At that point it is the matter of how much you want to become a physician.
Not even close lol.
As a member of the general public, I don’t care so much if a doctor is a pun MD or DO. Both are probably equally qualified. If we are splitting hairs though, I’d probably search to find a US trained MD o maybe a doctor from the UK or Canada or somewhere.
Please note that it is where you do your residency training that is important not your med school. Most physicians in the US have trained in the US regardless of not studying in the US (28% of US doctors have studied outside of the US).
Nobody cares about the public's opinion on this issue. This isn't about impressing them since the average person is extremely ignorant about the healthcare system and even the least competent doctors regardless of background are untouchable, especially in areas where there just aren't enough doctors around for patients to pick and choose who will treat them. I've seen it happen.
Premeds care more because they're concerned with matching to residencies and impressing institutions that will take them.
GO GATORS!!!!!!!
Have you been struggling with AUC or MCAT, if it your first attempt or more than once, if you're too busy you can schedule a study. Get to Mrs Margaret for AUC or MCAT assistance, I'm so happy I finally passed my exams thanks to her. she's got a phenomenal qbank that guides you okay.
Moral of the story...stop talking and giving recommendations you are even qualified to give!
Any education from the States > Caribbean. In this case, no question DO school is way better. 43% of Caribbean can’t even get a residency. There is zero qualifications to get admitted into a Caribbean school.
That's not accurate.
@@Pdmc-vu5gj look at data. It’s accurate.
@@Beck-Stein Not for the big 4 Caribbean schools.
@@Pdmc-vu5gj looked it up. The big 4 residency placement is about 60% still bad.
@@Beck-Stein I have 75 percent....it's not ideal.
MD>DO>>>Caribbean
Don’t get me wrong, the residents that I’ve worked with have been amazing doctors despite being a DO or going to the Caribbean but now adays going to the Caribbean is gonna be a crutch. STEP 1 is P/F meaning that research and connections are what are gonna get you in. Stay in the states
Lmao the title made me literally laugh out loud . A Caribbean school = clown school
Ehhh....I know an MD who went to a Caribbean medical school. Now practicing a family medicine doctor in Florida. Makes good money. Hot wife.
No.
I saved you 11 minutes.
Rather be an MD than a DO.
I would rather have an MD next to my name than a DO
True, I grew up in the south and it’s a big negative. People associate them with chiropractors rightly or wrongly.
That do or die attitude might keep you out of med school if you aren't in already.
@@ChrisH930S exactly lol I don’t want to be associated with osteopathic manipulation therapy and chiropractic Voodoo 😂 MD> DO any day
@@greeng6914 Not the same. DOs take a complex exam and not USMLE. USMLE is far more difficult! Also, MDs don’t waste time learning spinal manipulation maneuvers.
I bet you'd also prefer to have a general medical license in the united states as well.
If you have to attend the Caribbean then you aren’t smart enough. Just pick a different career. Like me still trying for the nba at 5’1”.
That's not true. Someone may not be the best student. But still a good doctor. How many people do you know who were average in school but super successful in the working world? I know many.
@@Pdmc-vu5gj none to be honest
I totally agree with you. Retake the mcat and go to US school.
I don't agree
US MD >>>> DO > IMG MD