MD vs DO: Which Should YOU Choose? Allopathic or Osteopathic?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ค. 2020
- What's the difference between MD and DO, really? Is MD better? Should you apply to both? I'm sharing my perspective on all this today.
If you found this video helpful, be sure to subscribe, hit that notification bell, and check out all our Meded Media podcasts at premedpodcasts.com.
To hear what residency directors have told me about whether they prefer MDs over DOs, check out my Specialty Stories podcast at specialtystories.com
Here are some of the points I cover in this video:
• Are the career opportunities equal for MDs and DOs?
• What was the myth that led me to only apply to MD schools?
• Is it true that DOs can't become surgeons?
• Do DOs need to be worried about the MD/DO residency merger?
• What should you know about the USMLE and COMLEX board exams?
• What is osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT)?
• In what sense do DOs actually have to learn more in medical school than MDs?
• What have residency directors have told me about DO vs MD students coming into their residency programs?
• Can you still become the head of a department, academic hospital, or other institution as a DO?
I shadowed a DO cardiothoracic surgeon and she was the most dedicated, caring physician I've ever shadowed. I would never wanna do her job though. She's in her 40s and still in debt, her hours are ridiculous, she's still single, and because she's always on call, people she's known have thrown her pager across the room. But if anyone's willing to make that trade-off, her job is tremendously rewarding. She literally saves lives. I saw one patient in the clinic whose heart had stopped midsurgery and she had to manually pump his heart with her own hand before linking it up to a machine or whatever they do. She was so happy to see him doing well, and she hugged and cried wih the patient.
Wow!
send her number my way
Soy Boy Beta Male, weirdo
How tf is she in debt if she’s a surgeon?
@@fifaplayer-ve2zb she probably hasn't been paying her debt aggressively. Either that or she's in a ton of debt (like 600k+ which is def possible nowadays)
Loved hearing this, thanks! I am starting at a DO school this July and was slightly worried about changes with residency but this made me feel a lot better. Keep up the hard work :D.
Dr. Gray speaks the truth! The ED I scribe at is affiliated with our state MD school, yet the ED director is a fantastic D.O. physician!
Great topic choice Dr. Gray. Really wanted to hear your perspective.
I have been debating which route to choose for years. This was such a comprehensive comparison, and it was the most informative video I've seen on this topic. You're the best!
Dr. Gray I’m a Non-Trad starting my premed journey and I absolutely love your videos 👍
as a DO student, I was extremely happy and somewhat humbled watching this. There are myriad of things about going to an Osteopathic school that DO students tend to think are potential setbacks, contingencies, or potential roadblocks to matching in a competitive program or specialty, but these days the beasts of those fears really don't exist, and the historic borders and hurdles are starting to blur more and more each year. In addition, there actually is some data in support of OMT being clinically beneficial, but many of the studies have yet to be reproduced and the sample sizes are usually inadmissibly small (hopefully there is more broad-spectrum data to be found in the coming years). thank you for such an amazing video and your true, kind words!
Can’t wait to make it to this point in my med school journey :) really loving your channel and the information you give
OMS-1 that just finished my first year today. I'd recommend just getting in, choosing the best school for you out of your acceptances, and being a consistent medical student.
I really needed this, studying for MCATs at the moment. Thank you for your perfect non-bias explanation!
Thank you for this episode. Finally a straight up answer to this answer/ debate.
Thank you. You are also helping pre med advisors like what I sometimes do. This is the most balanced assessment that I’ve heard on MD vs DO (from an MD)
This is the first video of yours I’ve viewed... you come off as very likable and showed your empathetic nature in this video...
Your views are skyrocketing cause your awesome Dr. Gray!
This video came in a perfect time! I’ve been doing research on the difference on these to help me figure out what would be best for me :)
Great content. Thanks for this, just what I need to hear ✊🏾
Thank you for this video! I’ve been searching what’s the difference between the two for a few months now. A like your perceptive on both.
I have been listening to your podcasts since before I started med school. I was working as medical assistant before med school and would often commute for an hour or more to get to job sites. I would listen to your podcast everyday. Now I am a rising 3rd year and take Step 1/Level 1 next week. Thank you!
awesome!
I’m a registered nurse, I’m in the commuting era and have been listening to him since I was a nursing student . I’m manifesting your position for mine . Sending Goodluck your way
"If I can feel when something releases in muscles ,whether you want to call it Anecdotal , Placebo ....., IM A FAN" lmao!! You're hilarious!
I totally agree with you Dr.Gray!
This person's communication skills are outstanding. Also as a MD he was very complimentary of DO's. Good guy.
Loved your take here. Thank you for the knowledge. Go Vols.
I also am an exercise science major. This really hit hard. Thank you for this advice!!
Great convo. Needed to hear this!
Great advice! Thank you for your wisdom...🤗🤗🤗
Thanks for the great content Dr. Gray, your channel and podcast are a goldmine of resources!
thanks for the great video, can you talk about the step 1 being changed to pass/fail and how it affects DO and carribean students?
I just googled this question LAST NIGHT. I still don’t know the difference- about to watch the vid rn
What did you learn?
I appreciate Dr. Grays candor in medicine.
Thank you for making this video! So many of people I know follow this myth between MD vs DO
I went the allopathic route back in 1988. Back in the day, it was harder for DO students to match into competitive residencies. However, in my career (Pediatrics) I’ve encountered many DO grads who were excellent pediatrics subspecialists. It comes down to grades and USMLE scores. If you’re great at what you do the degree doesn’t matter so much.
Pick whatever you get into! Life is short.
Absolutely loved this video!!
Thanks for breaking this down for me! 🏆
The charting outcomes in terms of match rate for US DO's was 90% and 93% for US MD's for the first year of the combined match
I have had this mindset that I have to apply to only DO schools, because I am a nontraditional student who doesn't have a 3.8 GPA. From listening to some of these videos and podcasts, it is kind of changing my mind. I would love to figure out how to chat with you about this!
I’m going to be a non traditional student, I’m going to do an MD, there is no reason why you can’t do it. In the U.K. they have the access certificate for mature students, it’s only a year, you just need a B/6 in GCSE maths and English. What ever it is you need in your country, just work towards it. Retake if you have to and study hard for it.
I rarely comment on yt videos but thank you so much for this video!! It helped me so much
The merger so far seems to have been amazing for US MD and DO and wrecked IMG MD. But the passfail is a huge concern now
My original mcat exam date was cancelled due to covid, and now I’m nervous if my application will be less favored because I apply later than I anticipated. Should I wait another year to apply early, or should I apply late this cycle? Thanks for any advice on this novel issue
How much does the difference in philosophies behind each practice affect the training process? I greatly prefer the holistic approach to care of DO, instead of focus on treatment of signs and symptoms. As a technician that is my personal bent; solve the source of the problem and prevent it from occuring again. How you approach data significantly affects how you interpret and respond to it? Does choosing a DO vs. MD school have a large impact on this?
Thankyou for this. very informational
I think as the years go by, DO schools are no longer “sheltering” weaker students since DO programs are increasingly becoming as competitive as MD schools. This competition means that the merger won’t be much of a struggle for a lot DO students. The entrance academic gap between MD and DO school is slowly thinning. Both MD and DO schools mostly take a holistic approach to admissions and most accept students with high stats, so the difference isn’t as stark as people make it out to be. But I like your take on this. It’s very raw, honest, important and neutral.
thank you for the video!
Could you please do a video on IMG MD schools.
Hey Dr. Gray, I’m currently applying I was wondering if you could take a look at my application? Mexican-American student with a highish GPA and low MCAT.
Not really much data on OMM because not a lot of studies on OMM get funded unfortunately. I hope our DO brethren can change that with this upcoming generation of DO physicians.
DO is def better. It's like getting an MD and then adding on OMT, which is honestly a big bonus. Who doesn't like getting a massage?
There is a huge difference in training as well as well as scores. Several DO doctors have said that the opportunities are not as good because they cannot get into specialties as easily as an MD.
There is no "huge difference in training." The scores are lower to get into DO school and the residency options might be more limited, but the training is identical.
As an aspiring Family Med or PM&R with a fellow in Sports, I really wanna go to a DO school cause of OMM/OMT that is something I can use while working to better help patients. But it’s understandable someone going into a Surgery, Radiology, Cardiology, a field that you won’t be using it that much, it doesn’t make sense to learn something you won’t be using or have the opportunity to use. It just depends on what the individual wants but they’re basically the same.
May I ask why the DO residency programs merged with allopathic,
if it will hurt a non traditional DO student and if just plain bias still exists? Seems like it was advantageous for DO to have their own DO residencies…
I had a classmate who is super intelligent he had 4.0 GPA and chose to go the DO route instead of MD
Nice! There is an old myth that you apply to DO schools if you have a subpar undergrad career but all medical schools are competitive. Like Dr Gray said you are the variable. I only applied to DO schools as well because i love the philosophy
Thank you for this
Thank you so much!!!!!
I didn't realize that you also went to UF for undergrad, Go Gators! I have to admit though, the pre-med advisors at UF are not good at all.
They're bad just about everywhere, haha.
The first merged match was actually this year (no AOA match just acgme) and DOs had their highest match rate in history. DO match rate 91% and about 94% for USMD. The argument about losing protected DO spots is legitimate though but looks like former AOA programs still took mostly DOs with the first merger match.
I imagine that will change fast. I mean idk about you but I pick the best candidate for the job, not differentiating by race, religion, professional degree, etc. Fact of the matter is that MD had better test scores than DO in undergrad, and on average, that will likely carry over into professional school for Step/Comlex scores. Obviously there are always exceptions to every rule, but you'll see the trends shift towards MD slowly but surely. There's no justification to pick a lower scoring DO over an MD candidate other than bias, and people claim there is no bias MD vs DO right?
@@alphaspartan I agree but also as they become more merged the averages of stat requirements have slowly been crawling upwards at D.O schools
@@alphaspartan I don't agree. Does that mean a Harvard MD grad will always be picked over a Temple University MD grad because harvard is "better?" Just because you got into Harvard doesn't mean you are better than a Temple grad. Same thing goes for MD vs DO. They are all med schools...med school isn't about how smart you are either...Hard work in med school is more important that how "smart" you are when taking the USMLE. If you are applying for a job after college, does that mean that the Harvard grad will always get the job over the U Penn grad??? I don't think so...
@@brians1337 let's be honest, if the interviewer knew you well, the name of the school on your degree would mean diddly squat. But the interviewer probably doesn't know you well. You're most likely just a name on a piece of paper with some facts about yourself. How does this interviewer or adcom differentiate between the 200 people who applied for the position (and try to do it objectively mind you)? Stats and brand recognition. "Oh these two students both have a 4.0 and 528, what else do I know about them? Well this one went to Harvard and the other went to St. James in the Caribbean... Hmmm 🤔 which do I want to invest $1 millions dollars into"? I'm not saying it's fair/right but it's reality. Denying reality won't change the facts that life is sometimes unfair and recognizing the situation for what it is, is the best way to go about changing it, or at least making the best out of it.
@@alphaspartan Yes, but the situation you are presenting is unrealistic. no one has the same stats going into an interview. So someone went to harvard, class rank #221 and someone else went to temple, class rank #2. you interview both candidates because rarely do companies interview just one candidate...this is reality. Who do you think they would choose? Harvard may impress me, but I think I may go with the gu that was #2 in his class. This is a very likely scenario that happens all the time in job interviews. same when applying to residencies. Let's be honest, it's nice to have an ivy league education. But there are a whole lot of other circumstances and stats that you will be judged on (class rank one on them), not just whether you have went to a 1st tier or 4th tier MD school, or whether you went to an allopathic or osteopathic medical school.
Thanks! That was really helpful.
Didn’t the AMA intentionally limit the supply of physicians to increase demand and therefore job security and salary? I wonder how the growing popularity of DO factors into this and how the AMA is reacting?
There will always be a physician shortage so job security isn't a factor that i as a DO student am worried about. The AMA has always had a grudge against us in the past but at the time of the Vietnam War, when there was a shortage of physicians in the military (DOs were barred initially from serving) the AMA got overturned and thr government ordered for DOs to be let in. That was also the same war that PAs were born out of, funny enough.
As far as recent years, however, i think that the AMA has at least outwardly been more accepting of DOs, as my campus personally has an AMA club and lets DO students join at the mire of some older DOs here. Can't say whether or not they truly accept us but its a step in the right direction.
A lot has changed since this video was posted. I know surgeons who are DOs. My obgyn was a DO who delivered my babies. All excellent doctors. Your MCAT score does not determine whether or not you will be a good doctor. It only determines which med school you may get into.
Didn't the residency programs merge?
some students who have a high ego and only care to be MD's
I don't know about that...with step 1 going p/f, DOs are going to put at an even greater disadvantage. Not that you can't get the residency of your choice with a DO but it's irrefutably more difficult.
asdfasd ehhh I don’t know what ur saying buddy know many DO’s who got in but obviously it’s a bit harder but nonetheless u will get into a residency even with subpar scores.
@@Russianboyz95 asdfasd is telling the truth guys (as someone who is going to a DO school himself). DO will make it harder to get a more competitive residency spot. *all other things equal*, they will choose the MD over the DO just because of the historic stigma, regardless of the facts. I would say it's analogous to saying you don't believe anyone would ever be racist against you, that was a thing of the past but we're over it now. would you argue against me then? I bet you would. Well trust me, there's still a stigma no matter how hard you guys pretend there isn't... but DO is still better than RN.
I met a girl with a subpar app. I suggested she apply to some DO schools. She said “I want that MD on my coat.” To me that said everything, and now it seems she is on her second unsuccessful application. What she said told me that she wasn’t in it for the right reason.
@@XxKiDCuDiFTWxX you are 100% right. One of my friends told me she wouldn't apply DO (refused to tell me why but I'm assuming arrogance) but ended up throwing away like $600 and a year of her life after scoring a 487 on the mcat! You can't even get into a DO school with stats like that lol. Something tells me she is not going to be a doctor period. I got a 511 and have only been accepted at DO schools do far.
Loved this video!! Will u do a video talking about carribean med schools as well?!?
Could you make a video on OMM? I’m leaning towards DO since I have an interest in primary care
Most of it is quack, what DOs say is that they basically fake it.
@@Vazcov1609 hello, fresh 2nd year here. I would say that most students fake it if they have no interest in it long term, but at the very least have great palpatory skills. I havent encountered anything yet that i personally deem as quackery because i can re-assess for myself that a specific technique worked for my patient (right now my classmates are my patients). I can tell the difference between an acute msk injury vs a chronic one and we become experts in the msk system in order to apply the theories behind the techniques we do. Most of what people have an issue with is craniosacral, which i haven't gotten into yet, but muscle energy, myofascial release, hvla, and counterstrain can all be re-assessed with patient input for their reduction of pain. Like Dr Gray said, even if some of it may be placebo, it's still better than thr current opioid epidemic that is the alternative right now.
Vazcov1609 Which DOs say that?
Honestly, os there any stratification based on GPA to either choose MD or DO? Bceause my advisor suggested that if someone with a GPA around 3.5 should prefer a DO because it's much harder to go for MD. I have no idea about this, can you help me with that?
You can still get into MD schools with a 3.5 GPA. Its just a lot easier to get into DO schools with bad gpa and bad mcat.
@@nickmcghee8547 thank you
Have you taken the MCAT? What does your science GPA look like? Most DO schools have a cut off too. The low stats they display on their pages are usually to just get people to apply. If you're concerned about your GPA, you can bring that up with a masters degree (look into bridge programs).
Not yet but have to take it after few months.
Thank you
@@nickmcghee8547 i don't think you can get into DO school with "bad" gpa and "bad" mcat these days...but if it makes u feel more superior, go believe it. most DO/MD schools have more than enough qualified candidates to fill their class.
How about Caribbean schools?
I would say huge discrepancy b/w Caribbean schools vs MD/DO schools in terms of residency opportunities. I believe Caribbean students also have to compete with MD/DO students to get into MD residency
Why are the residents at most top 25 ortho programs over 90% MD then if MD and DO are equal?
I would think a lot of this has to do with the amounts of DOs (>57%) that go into family medicine and not ortho programs, but not entirely sure.
Bias + MD students on average tend to do better academically than their DO counterparts.
my same thought.. strong premeds dont even apply DO. And All prestigious Medical Programs, Schools and teaching hospitals are MDs.... they aren't equal lol
I am an MD but degree (MD or DO) is irrelevant. In the past, there may have been a slight advantage for MD getting into most selective residency programs. Not really a factor now. There are more qualified medical school applicants than places (MD or DO).
Totally agree! It's funny when internet people who haven't even been through the process post back rebuttals to this information.
For the most part I agree with you, but let me share some of my perspective. I am an Idaho resident, going to an MD school out of state this fall. ICOM (Idaho's first medical school, DO) started up a few years ago, so naturally it attracts tons of Idaho residents who are otherwise having trouble getting into medical school or just want to stay home.
Unfortunately, the bias you mention at the beginning of the video may be a bit more widespread than you think. When I was shadowing a gen surg at an Idaho hospital, just as ICOM was finishing development, I was relaxing in the surgeons lounge while waiting to watch the next surgery. I got to talking with some of the more long-standing physicians there and we got on the topic of ICOM. Multiple physicians voiced that, more or less, that school is "trash" and "we will not hire anybody who goes there."
I have heard this sentiment voiced elsewhere as well. I have worked with doctors who are fine with UW students spending rotations with them, but dread ICOM students. The aspirations may be equal, but I do not agree that "opportunities are just as equal as they can get" based on what I've seen and heard.
This is quite interesting but I wouldn't take this as a blanket statement for all DO schools. ICOM is new and not accredited, so I understand the apprehension to take those students. At the same time though, ICOM has no history yet. I know students at ICOM, they're very smart students that will be just as good as an MD student doing a rural rotation in back water Idaho.
N=1, not every DO school is ICOM
Old white guy MD bias. I have met lots of incompetent MDs
so what is the major distinction between DO and MD besides the OMT? And why is there a separation if they are practically the same thing? I heard DO's aren't really recognized in other countries and that might be the only con.
The International Labor Organization (ILO), an agency of the United Nations, issued a letter affirming that U.S.-trained osteopathic physicians are fully licensed physicians who prescribe medication and perform surgery. The acknowledgment draws a clear separation between American DOs, who are medical doctors, and non-physician osteopaths trained outside of the United States. Within the international standards that classify jobs to promote international comparability across occupations, U.S.-trained DOs are now categorized with all other physicians as medical doctors. This event took place in June of 2018 and started a relay of events and opened doors for DO's as more countries started to understand and give full recognition to US trained medical doctors with the D.O. degree, e.g. the Association of Medical Councils of Africa (AMCOA) approved a resolution in 2019 granting the AOA’s request that AMCOA recognize U.S.-trained DOs as fully licensed physicians with practice rights equivalent to MDs, opening its 20 member countries, which include Botswana, Gambia, Ghana, Kenya, Lesotho, Liberia, Malawi, Mauritius, Namibia, Nigeria, Rwanda, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, South Africa, South Sudan, Swaziland, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia, and Zimbabwe to DO's.[40] (Note: Some of the member African countries of AMCOA had independently licensed DO's before; however, this recognition unifies those who did or did not). Furthermore, DOs may work internationally with any humanitarian organization such as the World Health Organization and Doctors Without Borders. Very few US DOs leave the country, but the list that you see on Wikipedia is a licensure summary of the DOs that have left the country for private practice. Out of the 78 countries approached, 76 have given them full surgical and medical practicing rights, including Australia, Germany, UK, etc; only Barbados and France restricted them to OMM only. France is also an ish country b/c it allows DO physicians and surgeons to do clinical rotations there. What about the rest of the countries? Well, a DO has to go there and apply for recognition (99% chance you will be recognized with a residency training and 100% chance you will be recognized with ACGME residdency). So if you want recognition from Kazakhstan Medical Council, well, be the DO that puts that country on that list. The world has gotten smaller now; people have ways to figure that the osteopaths in their countries are not US DOs.
can I transfer from DO program to MD program
No
yes it is possible
With the pass/fail USMLE Step 1 exam it's hard to definitively say "The opportunities are about as equal as you can get". This in my opinion will give less opportunities to DO and IMG students. And even before the exam changes to pass/fail, statistics show that less DO students place into specialties and surgery than MD students.
Samuel, you also have to factor in the fact that there are roughly 100 more MD schools than DO schools.
If you want a competitive specialty like cardiology or gastroenterology you should go MD. Big picture is equal though he is right.
It depends on HOW LONG YOU WANT TO LIVE (smile)!
why isnt DO and MD merged together? if the only difference is OMT, then add it to the MD curriculum and unify the diplomas. It doesnt make sense to me
Being DO is objectively worse for your career, match rates don't lie. It would be interesting to see the lists account for step score
Perfectly said on this channel. Not like the many egoistical youtube MD doctors who talk down DOs to make themselves feel better, such as Andre Pinesett, Buck Parker, Kevin Jubbal, etc.
It’s not their fault. The discrimination is real. Who knows? Things may change
Buck Parker's logic on Caribbean schools being better than DO because of the MD label is ridiculous. DO is a million times better than Caribbean in terms of matching and residency options. The bias will hopefully change over time since younger doctors might understand that DOs are just as qualified as MDs to be physicians.
I mean if you want to have a realistic look just look at the NRMP charting outcomes. The numbers tell the truth.
Little specific. What about DO’s wanting to be anesthesiologists?
Anesthesiology is very possible.
Anesthesia isnt as competitive to get into as it used to be. So many of my colleagues have obtained residencies in anesthesia. Still need decent boards scores, great personality, and have to work your ass off but def doable!
Anesthesiology is one of the top 5 most common fields for DOs, along with family medicine, pediatrics, internal medicine and emergency medicine. Again, it's depend on your stats and how well you connect with residency programs during you rotations that will help you the most in getting matched.
Liban 4ever I suppose I’d have to work my ass off in an MD program as well! Thank you for the info
Robert Nguyen I wasn’t aware of that statistic. Very reassuring.
Can DOs practice abroad?
Not everywhere there are restrictions in some places (such as Spain).
@@kenzmaddoc1975 who tf would wanna practice in Spain but thank you!
Lets be honest, it all boils down to stats at the end of the day.
facts, but stats being equal, there will always be that MD > DO bias... can't deny it Astro.
@@alphaspartan That's... literally my whole point.
@@OrganicDolphin excellent. I'll see you at NASA School of witchcraft and wizardry then 😅
Go GATA!
I’ve heard DO is better and I’ve heard it’s not as good. It seems like it depends on who you ask.
They both learn the same thing but unfortunately there will be some difficulty matching into some super competitive specialities but other than that yea they're literally the same.
DO is better. Same training as MDs, but better curriculum and open to natural medicine. MDs, generally, are allopathic-only or the highway...
Can DO's practice in Canada??
No - not usually - we only have md schools here! You can try to get in as an img but it’s tricky!
Yes, they can.
www.osteopathic.ca/
Legally internationally and domestically they are the same
It is so frustrating the large amount of contradictory advice for premeds. Was looking for information on the things I should be paying attention to in choosing a medical school and its not totally but certainly opposite to what he is saying.
The odds of specializing as a do is very low. That’s why 51% are pcps vs 30% mds.
I want to do naturopathic medicine but I am also interested in d.o school can I always switch those degrees ?
What do you mean switch? They're different degrees... So no you can't "switch" them
@@NO1xANIMExFAN wasn’t talking to you durrrrr
@@oliviaarteaga4092 not sure why it matters who you're talking to because it's not like the answer changes
@@NO1xANIMExFAN like I said I wasn’t talking to you 10 months ago mind your business
Medical School Insiders MALDING right now LOL
Are DO students able to get into neurosurgery residencies as easily as MD students?
Neurosurgery is one of the most competitive fields and you are going to need tremendous stats in order to apply, regardless of MD or DO. You're going to need a high step 2 board score, heavy neuro research with publications, and multiple great rotation performances at neurosurgery residency spots.
But All prestigious Medical Programs, Schools and teaching hospitals are MDs.... they aren't equal. strong premeds dont even apply DO. I do think that for weaker MD students the career outcomes can be about the same as most DOs.
That's like saying someone is the dumbest person at Harvard . I say Harvard in the sense that to get to the status of doctor is a prestigious title. Whether it's from big name or small name a doctor is a doctor.
@@daveyjones3016 i see where you’re coming from but even a 220 from Harvard can get into a prestigious IM residency while a 260 DO may get into a mid tier IM residency. I think the opportunities are just different based off of 3rd/4th year clinical rotations as well as ability to get good letters
@@bruceylee8670 I doubt that. 260 will get you into anything.
@@daveyjones3016 thats fair. and that is probably true
need for speed...
I disagree that they are equal. There is nothing wrong with DO schools in my opinion and they DO NOT deserve the negative stigma some give them. It is untrue and, in my opinion, misleading to say the opportunities are the same. Residency match data alone does not support that opportunities are equal. When you really dive in to access to resources, quality of clinical exposure, access to research opportunities, and other factors, I don’t think we would see across the board equality. I appreciate the sentiment here, but it’s not right to say that they are the same thing. The path to certain specialties and other opportunities is more arduous for DO students in general. Again, not a knock, just an opinion that is backed up by data and my own experience.
If you listen to the context of what I say, each student determines their chances, not the degree. And yes, as I mentioned, there are some programs out there with bias. BIG PICTURE-equal. Looking at individual programs theres going to be some bias. At the end of the day, a superstar DO student who found their stride will have any opportunity open to them-aka, equal.
I will admit that I didn’t listen to the entire context of what you said, so I apologize for commenting despite not giving you my full attention. I stopped listening when I heard the 99.9% comments. I agree that individual students create their own destiny and many DOs have achieved their goals despite some of the barriers they face. At the population level, I still feel it’s unfair and misleading to state that the opportunities are equal. I have the utmost respect for all individuals answering the call to medicine. I simply think we need to give prospective students the most accurate information possible. If I had a child pursuing medicine, I would encourage them to build an application competitive for as good an MD program as they can get in to. Top NIH funded MD programs > other MD programs > most DO programs > international. There is a reason people want to go to the top schools: because they have asymmetric access to research, financial resources (merit based scholarships), renowned physicians and scientists, etc. opportunity is not equal and we should give students all the information they need to make an informed decision about their career path. THANK YOU for your passion and interest in caring for the future of healthcare leaders. Please do not se me my comments as disrespectful. I appreciate you and your love for students.
@@zackhansen5773 the reason people want to go into “top” schools is mostly status and perception. In the real world this doesn’t really exist. I am a DO in a high end specialty and work side by side with guys from Harvard and Michigan etc. Frankly I’m unimpressed with lots of these high end schools. I don’t see the difference in my daily work. The individual is the variable not the school. It’s perception and bias.
@@kellanhills1972 Good and true information. Most YT commenters have no idea what they are talking about because they have not been through either process are not currently working in the field of medicine.
Historically MD was always better and more prestigious, but this is no longer the case as 25% of current med students are DOs
MD is still more prestigious. Them being better is subjective but it’s still much harder to get into competitive specialties as a DO than an MD.
@@thesneakygamer4343 The merger of residencies and Step 1 going pass/fail, pretty much killed the prestigious standing in the US. I will say though, if you want to practice in different parts of the world, then I would go MD.
@Tybera this could not be further from the truth. Stop spreading your personal speculation. Step 2CK is still graded, and step 1 becoming p/f has only increased the importance of school prestige.
Steve Chang I agree the merger and step 1 change really hurts DO. Now the residency application is more subjective and will rely more on prestige and research (which is more difficult to get at DO’s).
@@thesneakygamer4343 I completely agree, and this also seems to be the census on large medical online communities. Knowing this now should help us better plan for the future, not denying the reality and choosing to live under the rock with our eyes covered hoping for the best.
The opportunities with an MD are much greater than that of a DO if all things are similar. The recent merger will only make the disparity greater. Choose an MD and never look back.
Wrong. You can acquire any position you want if you work hard enough and play your political cards right. Get that myth out of your head.
@@tommousso1990 In an ideal world, you'd be correct. But that is simply not the case. I just matched into MD predominant program. A lot of places I interviewed, you could tell had a preference for USMD despite not having the best boards.
@@nmodi9 What would u expect applying to MD prominent programs? Try applying to PCOMs neurosurgery program as an MD they'll throw out your application since they only take DOs even with the merger since they require Comlex. Same thing with Rowan U and LECOM Orthopedic surgery programs. There a multitude of US programs (mostly at Osteopathic medical schools and hospitals) that bias against MDs and only take DOs in both PC and specialized residencies and fellowship. Theres also many that take both on a equal plane which includes both a large number of MD and DO schools and hospitals. Finally there are some that heavily biased to only take MDs, which would be essentially the top 20 MD schools and their respective hospitals (DOs can technically still match its just much harder at these programs since they application pool is very saturated with highly competitive MDs). Your argument would only make sense if every DO student was only applying to the top 20 MD schools for residency which is not the case whatsoever. A lil research can clear up a lot of misconception.
More uninformed bias by somebody who cares more about letters than being a good physician
@@nmodi9 Once you start and finish your residency, and start to practice, you will likely find that your current view will change. I don't mean to sound punitive, just saying.
If they're "99.9% the same", then they ought to convert all DO schools into MD schools. And then this silly debate will be over forever.
If they're gonna convert, it's MD to DO, not the other way around because DOs have extra to learn and it's not like they'll abolish omm classes
no need to convert DOs to MDs. they did this in california in the 1960s. this may be your internal bias. Most DOs are happy being DOs (or don't care). It just designates a medical degree was obtained, like MBBS, MD, MBChhs, MB, etc...
PREMEDS! You should choose M.D. if you want more specialty options and an easier route to more competitive specialties. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. D.O.s primarily go into primary care. The grades to get into D.O. schools are much lower on average compared to their M.D. counterparts. Pretty much all applicants treat D.O. schools as a backup. In fact, the majority of D.O.s don't use their manipulative treatment after they graduate. Do D.O. only if you really align with their principles.
M.D.>D.O.>>>>Caribbean MD
You will loose all credit when you say : "I do not need any data" or evidence! That is no different than gibberish!
DOs are typically more adept at natural, non-pharmaceutical treatment options and have, in my experience, MUCH better training on nutrition and food science. Depending on the medical school (MD) you've gone to, you have virtually no training in natural medicine or food medicine. MDs are blinded by the allopathic-only treatment course. I usually put it this way, if I'm in an accident and/or need emergency medical treatment, the allopathic treatment protocol is fantastic. If I want preventative medicine and non-toxic approaches, the natural method typically taught to DOs is BY FAR better, like not even close.
For a country that has an alarming number of people who cannot tell the difference between real and quackery, evidence and religion, science and pseudo-science, it becomes easier to understand why in the United States career options for a D.O. are almost the same as an M.D.