I'll be honest, I'm a competitive brawl player, and as soon as you play competitively for some time you'll see how broken meta knight is. He is the best character in the game for sure. He has the best recovery in the game, and so many moves that are so fast. Moves like up air, down air, shuttle loop, nado, and down smash are some of the best moves in smash history. He can combo, gimp, kill, he can do it all. He's also the best at camping in an already campy game. The reason Ike is not a good character is that he is so slow. Many of his moves are slow (nair, fair, up air, etc), his movement is slow, and his recovery is bad. Despite being strong, he is bad against projectiles and characters with fast moves. Also I don't think you used the most recent BBR tier list. That one has ZSS at 9, olimar at 3, and pikachu at 8. Competitive Brawl is pretty cool, if you ever wanted to get in to it, there's a whole discord server for it called Brawl Central
So I've watched your whole tier list series. I understand your not a competitive Brawl player, but I'll mainly touch upon Ike since you decided he's the best in Brawl. Think of it this way - If your familiar with Smash for the Wii U (aka Smash 4) Shulk was the longest ranged character, but never with that fact alone would I have considered him to be the best in that game. Ike is no different. Ike is mainly been overshadowed because of his laggy moves and overall inconsistency to keep up with the top tiers, even some high tier characters can give him a run for his money (Ex. Lucario, Toon Link, Fox, etc). Sure, Ike has kill power but what good is kill power if your opponent has safe shield options, better projectile camping, effective defensive options and above all, can even gimp you to sustain advantage. Ike falls apart in every category I just listed and this cant be contested otherwise. Throw Ike in a competitive match against a Meta Knight and he is utterly combo food due to his weight, his laggy moves and no kill set ups unless you want to blindly throw out smash attacks in neutral, which is never a fundamentally good idea. I don't need to express my opinion on the rest of your tier list because its unnecessary for me to go there. All I'll say is no matter how you decisively end up loving Brawl and it's content, continue supporting it. It was my first smash game I've owned and periodically revisit it due to nostalgia or simply because I want to binge some Brawl matches.
@@supersmashbrosbrawl-rc7uqalso mk does not die early due to a tech known as momentum cancelling, where using a move out of hitstun greatly reduces your knock back velocity. This combined with meta Knight's up air, the fastest aerial in smash history, lets him easily live to 180+ most stocks, and moves like down smash and shuttle loop can kill very early, along with Nair and dair being incredible gimping tools.
While I absolutely believe in tier lists shifting depending on skill level, and top level tier lists shouldn’t be seen as end all be alls for a game’s cast, because they’re not, and maybe for a casual tier list with items and smash balls included etc I could see him ranking lower, meta knight’s design is so fundamentally opposed to the idea of balance it’s not even funny. What weakness does he have? He has ridiculously fast, safe moves, a near endless recovery, unparalleled strength in the air, and no shortage of consistent kill moves. He has everything you could ever want. You’ve also mischaracterized competitive smash players as all being extremely hardcore mastering every tech imaginable is bad faith interpretation. I do believe he does get better and better as he gets towards top level, but I think if you sat down with even like. A decent competitive meta knight player vs your Ike the massive flaws in your arguments for Ike and against meta knight would begin to show. Ike’s slow speed and terribly exploitable recovery are flaws too big to justify him at #1. Of course his long ranged strong moves are gonna make him feel that good, but playing against any player who knows how to exploit Ike will make those strengths disappear in a heartbeat. All in all I’m not against the idea of someone making their own personal tier list based on different metrics I’m really not, but to assert that the competitive knowledge of the game only applies to certain one per center no lifers (brawl isn’t even a very technical game at all idk where you got the notion people were breaking their controllers trying to play it) while also trying to claim you personally know better from your own experience is I think a disingenuous misinterpretation
If it makes any difference to you, I have meta knight number 9 on my rankings now(which do change after 3 months 'amazingly'). I know most people are hard set in their belief that meta knight is number one in brawl, and if I don't believe that, I must know nothing about this game. I know meta knight has good range on his moves he has the best down smash in the game, his recovery is ridiculous, tornado is virtually impossible to punish, and most of meta knights moves have no lag. I don't know if your a competitive brawl player or if you just lose to meta knight all the time, but I have played this game for the past year and a half almost daily, and I don't just play with meta knight and assume every other character in the game is trash because they have a few laggy moves, or are slow, unlike meta knight. Also, mid level meta knight players wouldn't beat me with ike, even though metaknight is a bad matchup for ike. Which is a big reason ike was so low on the official rankings. This is why the official rankings are a big joke. It's basically Meta knights matchup list. If the character wasn't good versus meta knight, sorry you must not be a good character. I base my rankings on how good the character is, not how good they are versus meta knight. Amazingly enough, it's possible to play well with ike. I am going to tell you a few facts about ike. He is the strongest character in the game. He has the best range in the game. Not all of his moves are laggy. His nuetral attack is the best in the game. Down throw into nuetral air is combo at lower percent. His down tilt is a great meteor smash at ledge because it has great range, and He won't get punished for the lag of the move because the opponent is off stage. His down air also spikes, and if you play enough with ike(like I have) you will be able to spike with it without falling too far down, that ike can't recover. Also Ikes recovery is really good, the problem is he's extremely heavy so his side special isn't as helpful as it would be for lighter characters. His side special is easily gimpable, but only by certain characters. His up special is a great recovery, and that can't be argued. It is a great vertical recovery that is impossible to ledge guard because it has super armor, just like his nuetral special, and his sword can also go right through the stage, hitting any opponent who trys to ledge guard him. If anybody knew how to play correctly with ike and put in the time, you probably wouldn't so easily dismiss him as a bad character. The last thing I'll say about ike is that his side special helps compensate for his lack of speed, his main weaknesses are that he can be gimped, has fast fall speed, and no projectile. Ike is a character who is really good. He just needs to be played with a certain way, unlike meta knight who doesn't have many laggy moves, so whoever is playing with him can throw out random moves and not get punished for it. Your not the first person to try and explain your case for meta knight, but your just telling me things I already know and have heard a million times, but how many things did you know about ike that I told you. It's because meta knight is the character most everyone is familiar with, and has played all the time because their too lazy to try and play with a character who is going to take longer to master(like ike). Look at brawl meta knights smash wiki page and then look at any other characters smash wiki page, except for snakes smash wiki page nobody is even close to the amount of stuff people know about meta knight, every other character their is very little information on. I know your still thinking that their will never be a day that anybody is number one other then meta knight, but their could have been if this game was ever given the proper amount of attention. For example, Melee has been played with in a competitive fashion for many more years then brawl. Melee has a much bigger fanbase, and most all of the characters in melee have gotten much more attention and development then brawls characters. Look up a match of someone playing ike competitively in brawl on youtube. It's not going to be easy to find. Now try finding a match of somebody playing competitively with melee bowser(the worst character in melee). WOW that was pretty easy to find. Melee has received way more development then brawl and that's because not everyone was only playing with one character(aka meta knight). If melee got as little development as brawl, everybody would say fox is far and away the best character in melee, and would never play the game again, (LIKE PEOPLE ARE DOING WITH BRAWL), but since it got so much development, captain falcon, Falco, peach, jigglypuff, and sheik are all thought to be real contenders for best in the game. That can happen with brawl if the whole brawl community wasn't so fascinated by one character, and is ready to dismiss everyone else for being slow and having laggy moves. I LOVE THIS GAME AND WOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN THIS HOUR LONG EXPLANATION, OR SPEND MONTHS MAKING THESE VIDEOS IF I DIDN'T LOVE IT. I assume by your long comment that you love this game to, or more likely you just love meta knight. THE DAY I THINK META KNIGHT IS THE FAR AND AWAY BEST CHARACTER in THIS GAME, AND NO OTHER CHARACTER HAS A CHANCE WILL BE THE DAY BRAWL WILL NOT BE ENJOYABLE ANYMORE, WHICH IS WHY SO MANY PEOPLE GAVE UP ON THIS GAME SO QUICKLY. I could keep going but I'd be surprised if you read this much. If you need to hear more watch my video called 'WHY COMPETITIVE PLAY IS KILLING BRAWL'.th-cam.com/video/TV-OlQW0dbg/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
@@supersmashbrosbrawl-rc7uq i don’t doubt your love for brawl or the legitimacy of your experience. my question is simply, what situations, casual, competitive, anywhere in between, is Ike excelling to be placed over every other character in the cast? range and power are great traits on paper, but those flaws of his come into play in a whole lot more than just the meta knight matchup, and I don’t think those strengths make up for it enough anywhere for him to be placed so high.Again, I think your perception of the community’s perception of meta knight is a little warped. Take a look at grand finals of brawl at smashcon and, just last weekend, riptide. Brawl is still being played competitively, and its biggest tournaments are not being won by meta knight. Brawl is alive and well, and comp isn’t killing it. Riptide’s grand finals featured Chia, and as an ultimate rob player, it’s a lot of fun to see what that character looks like in brawl. I understand not enjoying a game’s competitive scene, it can be a real shitty place sometimes, and finding alternative ways of engaging with a game you enjoy is a great thing. My only word of advice is to not assume that everyone who disagrees with you must be a sweaty meta knight tryhard, because I’m not, I just don’t see the angle from which Ike becomes #1
@odorokibruh And I don't see the angle from which meta knight is number 1. I don't see how meta knight can be number 1 only based off him having the quickest, safest moves in the game, just like you can't see ike being number 1 because he's the strongest, and has the best range. I base my rankings off my experience with brawl, playing with and against every character, not just one, not by watching competitive brawl. Competitive brawl is alive and well, if you only want to see the exact same characters get played with in every match, and I don't even know why it's called competitive brawl, if everyone thinks meta knight is way better than every other character, than it wouldn't be competitive, would it? You will never think Ike has a chance to be a good character if you only watch competitive brawl, because nobody ever plays with him.
This is the best tier list ever made, truly the most competitive out of all of them, GAME AND WATCH AND LUCAS PLAYERS RISE UP
I'll be honest, I'm a competitive brawl player, and as soon as you play competitively for some time you'll see how broken meta knight is. He is the best character in the game for sure. He has the best recovery in the game, and so many moves that are so fast. Moves like up air, down air, shuttle loop, nado, and down smash are some of the best moves in smash history. He can combo, gimp, kill, he can do it all. He's also the best at camping in an already campy game.
The reason Ike is not a good character is that he is so slow. Many of his moves are slow (nair, fair, up air, etc), his movement is slow, and his recovery is bad. Despite being strong, he is bad against projectiles and characters with fast moves.
Also I don't think you used the most recent BBR tier list. That one has ZSS at 9, olimar at 3, and pikachu at 8.
Competitive Brawl is pretty cool, if you ever wanted to get in to it, there's a whole discord server for it called Brawl Central
So I've watched your whole tier list series. I understand your not a competitive Brawl player, but I'll mainly touch upon Ike since you decided he's the best in Brawl. Think of it this way - If your familiar with Smash for the Wii U (aka Smash 4) Shulk was the longest ranged character, but never with that fact alone would I have considered him to be the best in that game.
Ike is no different. Ike is mainly been overshadowed because of his laggy moves and overall inconsistency to keep up with the top tiers, even some high tier characters can give him a run for his money (Ex. Lucario, Toon Link, Fox, etc). Sure, Ike has kill power but what good is kill power if your opponent has safe shield options, better projectile camping, effective defensive options and above all, can even gimp you to sustain advantage. Ike falls apart in every category I just listed and this cant be contested otherwise. Throw Ike in a competitive match against a Meta Knight and he is utterly combo food due to his weight, his laggy moves and no kill set ups unless you want to blindly throw out smash attacks in neutral, which is never a fundamentally good idea.
I don't need to express my opinion on the rest of your tier list because its unnecessary for me to go there. All I'll say is no matter how you decisively end up loving Brawl and it's content, continue supporting it. It was my first smash game I've owned and periodically revisit it due to nostalgia or simply because I want to binge some Brawl matches.
Ike Just Strong & Long Range Attacker.
Meta-Knight is Great in Brawl!
I Rank Melee Yoshi Number 14th in Mine SSBM Tier List
bro has not found the neutral b or down smash button on meta knight, also mk has longer range than ike
Compare ikes sword to meta knights sword. Yeah, Ike has the better range.
@@supersmashbrosbrawl-rc7uqalso mk does not die early due to a tech known as momentum cancelling, where using a move out of hitstun greatly reduces your knock back velocity. This combined with meta Knight's up air, the fastest aerial in smash history, lets him easily live to 180+ most stocks, and moves like down smash and shuttle loop can kill very early, along with Nair and dair being incredible gimping tools.
While I absolutely believe in tier lists shifting depending on skill level, and top level tier lists shouldn’t be seen as end all be alls for a game’s cast, because they’re not, and maybe for a casual tier list with items and smash balls included etc I could see him ranking lower, meta knight’s design is so fundamentally opposed to the idea of balance it’s not even funny. What weakness does he have? He has ridiculously fast, safe moves, a near endless recovery, unparalleled strength in the air, and no shortage of consistent kill moves. He has everything you could ever want. You’ve also mischaracterized competitive smash players as all being extremely hardcore mastering every tech imaginable is bad faith interpretation. I do believe he does get better and better as he gets towards top level, but I think if you sat down with even like. A decent competitive meta knight player vs your Ike the massive flaws in your arguments for Ike and against meta knight would begin to show. Ike’s slow speed and terribly exploitable recovery are flaws too big to justify him at #1. Of course his long ranged strong moves are gonna make him feel that good, but playing against any player who knows how to exploit Ike will make those strengths disappear in a heartbeat.
All in all I’m not against the idea of someone making their own personal tier list based on different metrics I’m really not, but to assert that the competitive knowledge of the game only applies to certain one per center no lifers (brawl isn’t even a very technical game at all idk where you got the notion people were breaking their controllers trying to play it) while also trying to claim you personally know better from your own experience is I think a disingenuous misinterpretation
If it makes any difference to you, I have meta knight number 9 on my rankings now(which do change after 3 months 'amazingly'). I know most people are hard set in their belief that meta knight is number one in brawl, and if I don't believe that, I must know nothing about this game. I know meta knight has good range on his moves he has the best down smash in the game, his recovery is ridiculous, tornado is virtually impossible to punish, and most of meta knights moves have no lag. I don't know if your a competitive brawl player or if you just lose to meta knight all the time, but I have played this game for the past year and a half almost daily, and I don't just play with meta knight and assume every other character in the game is trash because they have a few laggy moves, or are slow, unlike meta knight. Also, mid level meta knight players wouldn't beat me with ike, even though metaknight is a bad matchup for ike. Which is a big reason ike was so low on the official rankings. This is why the official rankings are a big joke. It's basically Meta knights matchup list. If the character wasn't good versus meta knight, sorry you must not be a good character. I base my rankings on how good the character is, not how good they are versus meta knight. Amazingly enough, it's possible to play well with ike. I am going to tell you a few facts about ike. He is the strongest character in the game. He has the best range in the game. Not all of his moves are laggy. His nuetral attack is the best in the game. Down throw into nuetral air is combo at lower percent. His down tilt is a great meteor smash at ledge because it has great range, and He won't get punished for the lag of the move because the opponent is off stage. His down air also spikes, and if you play enough with ike(like I have) you will be able to spike with it without falling too far down, that ike can't recover. Also Ikes recovery is really good, the problem is he's extremely heavy so his side special isn't as helpful as it would be for lighter characters. His side special is easily gimpable, but only by certain characters. His up special is a great recovery, and that can't be argued. It is a great vertical recovery that is impossible to ledge guard because it has super armor, just like his nuetral special, and his sword can also go right through the stage, hitting any opponent who trys to ledge guard him. If anybody knew how to play correctly with ike and put in the time, you probably wouldn't so easily dismiss him as a bad character. The last thing I'll say about ike is that his side special helps compensate for his lack of speed, his main weaknesses are that he can be gimped, has fast fall speed, and no projectile. Ike is a character who is really good. He just needs to be played with a certain way, unlike meta knight who doesn't have many laggy moves, so whoever is playing with him can throw out random moves and not get punished for it. Your not the first person to try and explain your case for meta knight, but your just telling me things I already know and have heard a million times, but how many things did you know about ike that I told you. It's because meta knight is the character most everyone is familiar with, and has played all the time because their too lazy to try and play with a character who is going to take longer to master(like ike). Look at brawl meta knights smash wiki page and then look at any other characters smash wiki page, except for snakes smash wiki page nobody is even close to the amount of stuff people know about meta knight, every other character their is very little information on. I know your still thinking that their will never be a day that anybody is number one other then meta knight, but their could have been if this game was ever given the proper amount of attention. For example, Melee has been played with in a competitive fashion for many more years then brawl. Melee has a much bigger fanbase, and most all of the characters in melee have gotten much more attention and development then brawls characters. Look up a match of someone playing ike competitively in brawl on youtube. It's not going to be easy to find. Now try finding a match of somebody playing competitively with melee bowser(the worst character in melee). WOW that was pretty easy to find. Melee has received way more development then brawl and that's because not everyone was only playing with one character(aka meta knight). If melee got as little development as brawl, everybody would say fox is far and away the best character in melee, and would never play the game again, (LIKE PEOPLE ARE DOING WITH BRAWL), but since it got so much development, captain falcon, Falco, peach, jigglypuff, and sheik are all thought to be real contenders for best in the game. That can happen with brawl if the whole brawl community wasn't so fascinated by one character, and is ready to dismiss everyone else for being slow and having laggy moves. I LOVE THIS GAME AND WOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN THIS HOUR LONG EXPLANATION, OR SPEND MONTHS MAKING THESE VIDEOS IF I DIDN'T LOVE IT. I assume by your long comment that you love this game to, or more likely you just love meta knight. THE DAY I THINK META KNIGHT IS THE FAR AND AWAY BEST CHARACTER in THIS GAME, AND NO OTHER CHARACTER HAS A CHANCE WILL BE THE DAY BRAWL WILL NOT BE ENJOYABLE ANYMORE, WHICH IS WHY SO MANY PEOPLE GAVE UP ON THIS GAME SO QUICKLY. I could keep going but I'd be surprised if you read this much. If you need to hear more watch my video called 'WHY COMPETITIVE PLAY IS KILLING BRAWL'.th-cam.com/video/TV-OlQW0dbg/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
@@supersmashbrosbrawl-rc7uq i don’t doubt your love for brawl or the legitimacy of your experience. my question is simply, what situations, casual, competitive, anywhere in between, is Ike excelling to be placed over every other character in the cast? range and power are great traits on paper, but those flaws of his come into play in a whole lot more than just the meta knight matchup, and I don’t think those strengths make up for it enough anywhere for him to be placed so high.Again, I think your perception of the community’s perception of meta knight is a little warped. Take a look at grand finals of brawl at smashcon and, just last weekend, riptide. Brawl is still being played competitively, and its biggest tournaments are not being won by meta knight. Brawl is alive and well, and comp isn’t killing it. Riptide’s grand finals featured Chia, and as an ultimate rob player, it’s a lot of fun to see what that character looks like in brawl. I understand not enjoying a game’s competitive scene, it can be a real shitty place sometimes, and finding alternative ways of engaging with a game you enjoy is a great thing. My only word of advice is to not assume that everyone who disagrees with you must be a sweaty meta knight tryhard, because I’m not, I just don’t see the angle from which Ike becomes #1
@odorokibruh And I don't see the angle from which meta knight is number 1. I don't see how meta knight can be number 1 only based off him having the quickest, safest moves in the game, just like you can't see ike being number 1 because he's the strongest, and has the best range. I base my rankings off my experience with brawl, playing with and against every character, not just one, not by watching competitive brawl. Competitive brawl is alive and well, if you only want to see the exact same characters get played with in every match, and I don't even know why it's called competitive brawl, if everyone thinks meta knight is way better than every other character, than it wouldn't be competitive, would it? You will never think Ike has a chance to be a good character if you only watch competitive brawl, because nobody ever plays with him.