CHINATOWN: Corruption & the futile fight against institutional power - Four Play Ep. 11 (Film Noir)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- Often considered one of the greatest films ever made, Roman Polanski's 1974 Film Noir masterpiece Chinatown explores themes of corruption and the futility of fighting against institutional power. Richard, Monte, and Thorin discuss the devastating ending, the banality of the water rights subject matter, the impeccable pacing, and more. They ask if Jack Nicholson's performance is even necessary to this film, especially contrasted to John Huston's dazzling acting in a supporting role, and explore Faye Dunaway's diva turn. Why even call the film Chinatown and what does it say about the perception of the Chinese as The Other?
Film Noir: The Maltese Falcon, Touch of Evil, Chinatown, L.A. Confidential
Four Play selects four iconic films from a theme or genre to meticulously analyze and place in their proper historical context. Hosted by veteran esports commentators Richard Lewis, Duncan "Thorin" Shields, and Christopher "MonteCristo" Mykles, Four Play showcases both legendary Hollywood movies as well as hidden gems outside the mainstream. Be sure to watch along with our hosts each week to get the most of each conversation!
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Editing by Adanion
Art by Atantalas
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0:00:00 - Intro to Chinatown and the understated horror of the ending
0:07:30 - Plot summary the ostensibly boring subject matter of water rights
0:19:40 - The insidiousness of banal, white collar crime
0:28:20 - The naivety of Jake Gittes
0:38:42 - Faye Dunaway and silly tropes of Film Noir
0:45:50 - How the men with noble intentions are framed
0:52:53 - The femme fatale trope in Chinatown
0:58:49 - Is the acting central to the film or unnecessary in the context of the pacing and direction?
1:09:37 - Why the name Chinatown and the perception of the Chinese in the period
1:16:55 - The shocking ending and final opinions
The themes of corruption and the futility of fighting institutional power
#moviereview
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The Maltese Falcon and Touch of Evil were a fantastic watch. I only watched a couple of the movies from the prwvious FourPlays, but im following closely with this Noir series and its giving me a whole new level of appreciation for the craftsmanship of moviemaking and destroying my foolhardy stubbornness of ignoring movies older than myself.
Can't wait to watch chinatown in the next couple days.
"He was a great detective. And a lousy Cop."
I can't imagine any of you will read this, but Chinatown is one of my favorite movies, so I just want to add in my 2 cents. There were a couple things you didn't mention (of I'm sure an thousands long list that have to be dropped to keep a reasonable time).
1. There's the well known fact that, based on some things Gittes says in the film, we are to understand that he used to be more idealistic and worked as a police officer in chinatown only to have had some case go bad that caused him to become jaded and switch to being a private eye. I believe it's supposed to be that he got involved with a woman whom he tried to help only to end up harming, and of course that exactly matches what happens with Faye Dunaway's character as he grows attached to her, tries to save her and her daughter, only to lead the police to her and get her killed. That last line is explicitly summing up his experiences in chinatown but also just so so hammering home the idea that you can be jaded and participate in the cruelty or you can be idealistic and still unwittingly participate in the cruelty.
2. My absolute favorite moment, by far the most philosophical imo, and I think the best moment in the movie is a line by John Huston when he admits to everything. Jake is telling him about the rape, murder, etc. that he knows Cross is guilty of, and Cross says
Noah Cross : I don't blame myself. You see, Mr. Gittes, most people never have to face the fact that at the right time and the right place, they're capable of ANYTHING.
AFI did a best movie villains of all time list and has Cross as right up near the top, and I think it's almost entirely because of this line (also the one about how much better can you eat and how he always wants more money, more power, but let's focus on this one). Cross is an old man who is never shown to be particularly physically intimidating. Everything we learn about his villainy is facts about things he did off screen and years ago. In addition, his plan is this, as you say, kinda boring water rights scheme to make money, no Bond villain shenanigans or comic book super geniuses. However, in this line, he goes to the absolute extreme of noir systemic nihilism. He claims that it really is the system, that even he who controls the system, who has all the money and power, all the connections, is pulling all the strings, that even he is not evil but just doing what anyone in his position would. It's at once horrifying in the sense that it really shows him to be a sociopath who has no regret or remorse for the absolutely awful things hes done and also a challenge to Gittes and the viewer he is a proxy for. How many things have you done that were maybe bad but you knew would never matter? How often do you bend the rules, because it's a minor thing that you don't feel has any serious repercussions. Cross has simply reached the pinnacles of power in our society where he can consider absolutely anything minor and rest easy knowing none of it will ever have serious consequences for him. It takes that classic american dream line that parents everywhere tell their children that if you work hard and succeed, you can do anything you want, and reframes it to how everyone in power generally feels that they have worked for their power, and it is very seductive to think that the power to do a thing gives you the right to do it.
I've been waiting for this one. My grandfather forced me to watch this as a teen after I was saying how old and dated it looked. It was the best punishment I ever received. It made me give so many great films a chance that I would have dismissed otherwise.
This kind of punishment makes me so scarednfor future generations. " sit down its time to wacth Barbie or some Marvel shite" now thats some child cruelty where the CPS should intervene
watched this movie a few years ago, didnt really 'get it' back then. gonna give it a rewatch for sure.
These movies, not just the Film Noir ones, are incredible in the sense of being time capsules for American society and its evolution.
Just for that alone the lists and your commentary of the movies on 'em, has been great and functions like a neat window into the American psyche.
- So cheers for expanding my movie understanding and some of the OG movie inspirations :)
Unlikely I would have watched this movie without this podcast. Super good! Thanks!
I watched this movie for the first time a couple years ago because Thorin made reference to it on an episode of By The Numbers. So glad to see you guys review it here!
thanks for all the free entertaining during my night shifts! ill for sure watch that movie.
We just finished this movie in my university class today. The timing of this podcast is impeccable for me. I'm not a big movie guy so the podcast normally hypes me up to watch the movie. The ending of this one was so surprising and disturbing I feel lucky to have gone in blind.
So what Thorin is saying is that Leena is the femme fatale of esports.
The ending Polanski is one of the funniest dark-humorous part here
This movie was brilliant and the ending was so unexpected and disturbing.
Great movie! Thx for showing it to me guys
This was absolutely fantastic, really enjoyed it, devastating movie
I watched the first 2 series (cosmic horrir, 80s vampires) as they came out, and then thought to myself I could add them all up for Christmas week, knowing I'd have a lot of time off to enjoy them! Restarted watching today with Chinatown, what an amazing film! Super grateful for you guys recommending these movies. Cheers!
the fact that this movie plays on the tropes of classic noir like The Maltese Falcon and Touch of Evil lulls you in to believing that this is still the old world of the Hays Code which really amplifies the shock value when the reveal finally comes at the end.
Thanks for making me aware of such good movies!
This series offers a wonderful insight into the importance of these unique movies, while also providing insight into how Monte, Richard and Thorin view the world. Love it.
This was awesome thx
Banger film, banger discussion
Superb movie, thanks for "making" me watch it
not called the greatest screenplay of all time for no reason. iconic
Love this show, love this movie, keep at it guys❤
This was one of those movies I had only seen once probably 15 odd years ago and man what a movie it is. I agree entirely with Richards statement about how this is a movie you kind of forget about. I could only remember the broad outline of the water plot, the real plot I did not remember at all and I probably was a little too young when I saw it for the first time. This was an excellent opportunity to revisit this classic. I also love how you guys mention this as the best "modern" film noir, I get the reasoning, but it is still kind of strange considering how old this movie is.
My favourite movie of the genre so far, Jack Nicholson was fantastic
What is "fun" about Chinatown is the great dialog, much of which is also quite funny.
Jake Gittes isn't a boring role at all. Nicholson is in every seen and gets to say a lot of great lines. About 5 years after the movie, Nicholson did an interview (with the BBC, I think) in which he said he was glad he took Chinatown over roles in other famous movies because of how interesting a film it is.
A more specific take on the "racist" screwing like a Chinaman joke is that it shows Gittes is rash. He gets an idea in his mind and won't let go of it. It is this flaw that has him absolutely convinced Evelyn Mulwray must have killed her husband near the end of the movie. I also think one possible small flaw of this great film is that Gittes is quite smart or seems so in a number of scenes but becomes less smart or observant when the script needs him to. He saw Mulwray wearing glasses that weren't bifocals at the dam hearing and Cross put on a pair of bifocals in their lunch together. It is true that he was as or more interested in his racing form than the dam hearing in that scene. And smart people can and do make mistakes or miss obvious things. There is also the feeling that Gittes is a little burned out with his job at that point and so comes to the wrong paint by numbers type conclusions.
Polanski's wife had been murdered only a handful of years before Chinatown; I assume that also figured into his idea that Evelyn Mulwray should die at the end.
Lmao at the idea of someone sitting an eight year old down to watch a slow neo noir film about water corruption and failed institutions and then expect them to be mind blown at the “it’s Chinatown” line.
and richard then proceeded to relive a film noir in his life in esports. it all makes sense now.
@@Bscybfan1996 holy crap you're right.😅
It's a great fucking ride
in terms of femme fatales the rosamund pike character in get out is also a modern example
Great film, and I found it super digestible at basically the whole way through. I paused and walked away several times and basically watched it in 3 large chunks. I feel like the only thing I disliked was that Nicholson was the main actor because it's the first Four Play recommendation where I couldn't really separate the character on screen from the actor. I just kept looking at him and thinking, "This is what makes him be the Joker for Tim Burton." I think that Gittes was not a good enough character to not see that Nicholson grin and think it was anyone else than the handful of other characters I've watched him be.
Agree with a lot of your opinions guys but complete miss on Jack's performance. These straight man roles are the hardest to play because you can only show your skill subtly. He bearly reacts to anything and is so relaxed, but you never forgot the look on his face at the end of the film. Something breaks for him and its only the tinyiest crack but its heartbreaking. Seeing some who is so animated play a roll like this is incredible because they radiate energy, like robin williams. Maybe he himself didn't think he was good, i couldn't think of anyone better.
👍
So Quantum of Solace was boring and some might say ‘dry’ because it was about water instead of nuclear weapons 😜
Irrigation is not utilized to its potential in America whatsoever. We could turn the desert blue with extensive irrigation, and what a public works project that would be, how huge a benefit that would be. But it's not desired to be done.
The biggest blackpill is how much we waste in terms of resources, and as you say, in terms of wasted opportunity. As an aside, what blows my mind is how much coal and oil we waste on heating that could be done by nuclear instead. Every drop of oil is precious and we can never get it back. Coal was famously made into various fuels by the Nazi's in WW2, it's also a brilliant resource.
@@Selendeki I appreciate where you are coming from, but there is actually no evidence that oil is a scarce resource. It's a bit of a rabbit hole, and there is plenty of "data" to suggest otherwise.
But by analogy, think about diamond mines. Diamonds are incredibly common, they are essentially worthless in terms of actual rarity. The real issue is that the controllers of the diamond mines have an interest in making them scarcely available.
@@michaelfetter5413 It is by no means scarce, for sure, there are oceans of oil in the ground. I think I will address your point about what I believe you are hinting at, which is abiotic oil. Abiotic oil might be real, it might not be, I don't know. I'm just saying, if we're using ~100 million barrels of oil every day (I thought it was 30 million, another blackpill for me), whatever the process of replenishment is for oil, surely we are outpacing it.
@@Selendeki At this point, "we" is mostly China/India, and if we were truly responsible for ourselves as a nation we would be racing them to use a larger share of it. Thoughts?
@@michaelfetter5413 You're touching on my original concern, which is that nobody is handling oil consumption responsibly. I would prefer more investment in nuclear energy, which has an incredible return on energy invested, from what I recall about 3 times more than even oil.
As you know, this is not the chosen path of most western countries, we are committed to using much more oil and gas to mine, refine and produce materials to build windmills and solar panels. Obviously, this strategy will change, the only question is how much capital will we have wasted before our political class realize their mistake.