Throwing Axeman vs Gbeto
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024
- Analysis of the similarities and differences between Throwing Axemen and Gbetos.
0:40 Overview of their attack, upgrades, and comparison with archers
2:00 Stats comparison
2:40 Cost analysis
3:20 Hidden stuff (bonuses, movement rate, etc)
5:30 vs halberdiers
6:15 vs skirmishers
6:40 vs hussars
7:00 vs eagle warriors and huskarls
7:10 vs champions
7:28 vs rams
7:50 vs onagers
8:15 vs arbalest
8:50 vs hand cannoneers
9:10 vs scorpions
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Game: Age of Empires 2 HD with Forgotten Empires, African Kingdoms, and Rise the Rajas expansions
![Tarkan vs Knight [AoE2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mwlRLRJdbys/mqdefault.jpg)
Disappointed that they're not literally throwing an axeman
Vegard Gloppestad now that would explain the melee damage!
haha true
Took me a moment, but got me giggling.
Well, then that unit would be named throwing axeman man
There should be a mod for that.
Whether you think Throwing Axemen or Gbeto are better, we all can agree on one thing.
We were confused and mildly panicked the first time we started losing Gbetos in battle.
I was like "Wow, they are female? Thats awesome!"
Meanwhile I was like "Is this a bug? Should I report this to the dev? Eh, i'm sure this'll be patched out soon. "
Kaede Akamatsu *meanwhile; I've never played them.*
Yea... yeah of course......
I mean....
*to myself*
Save me Joan.....
RudJohns' gaming channel Why is that awesome?
Perhaps they should pitch shift the Gbeto voice line a tiny bit, to give a subtle contrast.
Gbetos are better for raiding, Throwing Axemen are better for holding the line
I love the Kamayuk. That spear is just so ridiculously long.
Do you think he's compensating for something?
that's what she said
I think it's not so much the length that makes it so ridiculous, but the way the Kamayuk holds it. Phalanx units as well as real-life pikemen/halberdiers held their extremely long weapons more towards the middle of the shaft, so that they could still apply some leverage to turn the weapon easily. The way the Kamayuk holds it, the slightest shear force (so any force that does not point in the exact opposite direction the spear is pointing) would effectively disarm him.
Well, i guess size matters XD
*cries in Militia's mace.
good video; the only thing i feel you forgot to cover is their potential as building destroyers. 30 elite gbetos with arson can destroy a 2100hp building in about 10 seconds which convincingly replaces anti-building siege for a whole army, except against castles (although it's still doable in an emergency).
I was just thinking that. With arson and high-attack infantry like the Gbeto it seems like TC sniping can really be a thing.
i also feel like it might open up a different technique for economy raiding: instead of only targeting vils with gbetos which is a bit of a pain with the long frame delay and no ballistics, you could destroy and deny all the fragile resource collecting buildings and force the enemy to waste time making new and less efficient ones whilst managing all the vils cluelessly walking back to the nearest TC with all their resources.
I think of them as a slightly faster ranged version of shotel warriors, and I think their best at raiding another player's economy.
Or you use Siege Towers with Gbetos for a MASTAPIECE!
Clearly
That "Clearly" was hilarious xD
And that kids is how you win with an unit you believed was useless
got'em!
Guess this is the ultimate strat
Also since the Gbeto are women, they can get married and have melee ranged children
Jart988
only in MP game with frankish ally then.
Should be a team bonus.
They don't need to get married, just to have sex.
*RANGED TEUTONIC KNIGHTS*
@@TheDarthpsi Gbeto jr born out of wedlock has 1 less attack and 1 less armour
Great comparison! You covered every aspect of the units and delivered the information compact and perfectly understandable. In my opinion movement speed is one of the most underrated attribute on units since, besides from microing, you reach your opponents base so much faster (especially over long distances) what can sometimes be a huge factor for a fight or even a gamechanger!
Thanks for your awesome videos!
Not so much, actually he should have conclude that Gbetos are closer to Shotel and Axemen to Champions.
Great video as always! Reminder that making archers against the malians is a bad idea in general since even their halbs are basically huskarls.
You have some of the best damn videos on youtube, Spirit. I always learn a lot when I watch, and you do a great job of showing as well as telling, and of taking questions on from every reasonable angle.
Also, I gotta add, you have a great voice and I love your humor. Just listening makes my day better. Keep up the great work, man.
Gbetos are also good at taking down buildings, though you tend to need at least 20 to do this effectively. Still that group of 20 can easily run through a town and take out any towers, TCs or even military buildings in just a few shots while still avoiding any defensive units they made.
I remember a game on theViper's stream when the enemy had a bunch of castles outside of his base, so viper put a bunch of Gbetos in siege towers, ran the towers past the castles and ungarrisoned the Gbetos in his eco and won the game.
While not good in all situations they are a really fun unit to play with and can pull off some cheesey strategies from time to time
Yeah that was one crazy game...
i was hoping that you'd make a castle age comparison (with castle age tech vs castle age units) because that's when the Gbetos are used the most i think.
GBAITED!
Please, please continue the random wild animal attack during unit introductions.
Another excellent video....you know, maybe someday I might actually play this game....so far, i'm mostly here for the voice....like with Totalbiscuit.....
Yeah, voice that makes all guys wet.
I have not played Age of Empires in months. I do not have all expansions. Still, as soon as I see a new video from Spirit of the Law, I instantly watch it. Why?!
"TOP 10 QUESTIONS SCIENCE CAN'T ANSWER"
Marian S curiosity
HAHA same here
What seems a bit strange in this video is that DPS is usually considered more important for ranged units.
Gbetos + Meat Shield > Throwing Axemen + equivalent Meat Shield.
If not, elephant archers would be an awesome unit.
Most ranged units are not that good when not supported.
I think that the reason why Gbetos cost so much gold they are the 2nd highest non-siege ranged DPS after the inaccurate arambais (unless I forget another unit). Only the combination of relatively short range + low HP + low initiative due to high frame delay prevent them from being OP.
One good thing about these 2 units is that they don't really have hard counters (they have soft counters of course). Even siege could be caught off-guard as both Gbetos and TA do more damages to siege than the feared Mangudais (Mangudais have both high HP, speed and better range so they are overall better).
I'd say T.A. cover a different role for Franks. They're good against things Paladins suffers against and viceversa. They don't have to be the ones supported, they can hold the line and kill halbs while the paladins manouvers (and occupy the most of your concentration). Their range leaving them free to don't move too much and still protect cavalry while also being more effective at dealing with not-ranged infantry (in a similar fashion to Kamayuk). Also Gbetos are very micro-dependent and while their additional speed makes them a very deadly unit in the right hands, it's not really quantifiable.
I do think that TA are great and it's good to see them getting a bit of love after all these years of bad reputation.
Both gbetos are TAs are really suitable in their respective composition. My point is that I feel Gbetos are an awesome "power" unit (with awesome supports from champskarls, light cav and camels) while TAs are awesome "support' unit for Franks main "power" unit which is the Paladin.
"Power" units tend to cost more ressources, especially gold, which explain why Gbetos are more expensive.
Spirit of the Law, you make great videos. You mention every detail about a unit and that's great. The best AOE channel on TH-cam.
1:53 man, that was a quick video. Thanks Spirit!
Hell yeah, I smell a Malian civ overview incoming
See at 1.55 he has already made it and is 26 mins long
No he hasn't. That's a placeholder for when he eventually does make it
I don't have HD, but it sounds like their roles are nothing alike. Throwing Axemen are, at least as designed, the bread and butter of the Frankish army. Their range compensates for the lack of Squires. They're best in large groups where other infantry wouldn't be able to bring its full numbers to bear. They build quickly from cheap Frankish castles. Except against high melee armor opponents like TKs they sort of fill the archer role while also filling the swordsman role and they work well in a group with crossbows or hand cannoneers. They're basically the Frank's preferred answer to almost every question to which the answer isn't knightline or bombard cannons.
Meanwhile you're describing Gbetos as a specialized raiding unit. The Throwing Axeman should be compared to stuff like Zerks and TKs while Gbetos should be compared to stuff like Plumies and Mamelukes.
Actually, you should consider looking at unit mixes. For instance way back in the day someone -- probably Doug Thompson, who seemed to be responsible for most of the theorycrafting -- suggested that above a certain formation size, mixed ranged units with different fire rates or ranges would waste less damage overkilling single targets than homogeneous groups. Eg. mangudai and cavalry archers or hand cannoneers and arbalests. You could also look at which UUs can be effectively bulked up with normal units and which units should be used to do so.
Nathan Brown everything you said is true except for the throwing axemen being bread & butter. No, just no. I'm a 1750 elo and can safely say that no castle age unit can be bread and butter simply from their unavailability. Knights are bread and butter of frankish army
Just because the castle bottleneck prevents units from filling their intended role in 200 pop games does not mean it is not their intended role. The 75 pop limit used by the Ensemble Studios campaigns is suggestive of what the game was actually balanced for, and at that pop limit there's no difficulty maxing out on UU heavy compositions.
+1 nathan, great knowledge of the game and that wasting damage thing with only 1 kind of unit is very nice to know
Yea, another thing that makes gbetos a nice raiding unit is the fact that group of 15 or so with Arson added simply melts the quickwalls, like houses and palisades. To be honest, I never found myself using throwing axemen for anything besides being a halb counter to cover the french paladins - and cav.arch still do it better because they're able to catch up. Sooo, personally, to me throwing axemen is pretty useless, while gbetos definitely have potential. Although, being a high gold cost unit with barely any HP they are really easy to accidentally waste.
Oh, and may I suggest doing a video about how garrisoning units in towers increases their damage? Like, does it work for weird units, like gbetos or slingers? How many units I need in each tower to still contribute to max damage? I always knew it's below the max available room, but had a feeling it's different for different kinds of towers.
1:52 easter egg, he is gone make the malians civ overview
I really hope its comin soon
25min long
@@carlossaez7040 Apparently 21 minutes
I've always wondered how throwing axemen can carry an unlimited supply of axes..
I've always wondered how trebuchets can sling 90kg projectiles over 300 meters.
Heat it's called gravity
Also, what do gbetos shoot?
umm, they can throw 90kg projectiles a lot further than that.
Knifes it seems. It's a little more realistic at least.
Remember guys, Spirit said it here.
Next time you're making an army as Franks. Consider throwing in some Throwing Axemen. ;)
I'm barely competitive and I'm bringing a bunch of new people to this old game. Your videos are very good at teaching things for me!
The "goth game plan" thing in the intro always cracks me up. Great content as always!
What about TC sniping? I think Gbetos have an edge there because of their speed and attack. Also, with arson, infantry sniping TCs (or maybe other buildings?) seems potentially viable in some situations...
Ayyyy reminds me of some snek boi
They might be good at killing villagers, but two stray volleys from a TC can devastate a group of them, they take a long time to fire, and they're damn inaccurate vs moving units. This coupled with the fact that you get them in castle age, only after you build a castle, makes it kinda meh since at that point the enemy either knight rushed you or made shittons of TCs and sniping a few vills here and there won't matter much.
@Sam Fisher
And some siege tower bois
If there is not castle around, 15 20 ghbeto can destroy tc like a cake
King snipe Gbetos
As one who really likes the Franks, there's nothing better than a fully upgraded army of Elite Throwing Axemen, Paladins, and Bombard Cannons, with maybe a trebuchet or two thrown in if I have enough gold
you can even add some hand cannoneer who are very safe and never dies hidden behind line of axemen. very good dps output increase
Love this video. Would love a video in this format comparing the three mesoamerican civ's eagle warriors. Which ones perform best in which situations, etc.
FINE!! you convinced me after a year of watching your videos to buy the game
1:42 Kamayuk forefully shoving his pen.. I mean spear into the watchtower
Feels good when spirit uploads a video we have to wait but the wait is worth it
Nice, now we can focus on comparing Scorpion and Caravels on water nomad style maps.
Btw Spirit, maybe you can consider unlisting your first fish trap video? The data is kind of updated with your traps vs shore video. It's also (seems to be) your second oldest video, while your first one is already unlisted.
You should totally do a video on all the hidden attributes of different units, because I cannot seem to find any information about their hidden attributes anywhere.
google aoe2stats (I dont think I can link on youtube comments)
Oh wow, thank you very much.
Incredible, I tested this yesterday. and there. A video of Spirit of the law for speak for this.
Thanks for the Video Spirit I never knew how to counter the Gbeto properly!
And Malians Overview confirmed nice!
The one advantage of the Gbeto though is it's raiding potential a castle drop from the Malains is much more difficult to deal with than Franks!
The Gbeto just rushes in kills your vills and goes back into his castle if necessary in the castle age this is really a tough thing to deal with if throwing axeman go into my base I can handle them much easier becuase of their speed
There's also a physiological advantage in using the Gbeto to raid. Cavalry tend to draw the player's attention much more than infantry. When being raided by cavalry archers for example their size makes them look threatening, provoking a response much faster and more decisive then the little footmen that is the Gbeto.
1:52 Nice troll
That lion was like 'LOOK AT ME'
Great vid - I love playing franks vs. my friend who plays byzantines for precisely the reason of Elite throwing axemen - I see them as ranged champs that clean up his ranged trash really hard and do well vs. cataphracts as well.
Oh, and of course knights raids are still fun, and you can always retreat to your axemen hoard. The only question is, where do they store all those axes?
Same place the skirmishers store their spears ^_^
They're are Magicians. But psst it's a secret. Don't tell anyone.
So, basically, due to its speed, Gbeto doesn't have the same role as Throwing Axeman but as Mameluke instead. It's a ranged melee cavalry infantry.
I like the axemen, I had a pack of 20 ish raiding, and they tend to take down boats very quickly, and building is also pretty good, combine them with a pack of knights/cavs, and you have a strong destructive force.
I was wondering about this exact thing earlier this week. Nice video. Good job.
@1:53,
*with a chuckle* "Why do these videos take me two weeks to make?"
Good one. XD
Well, for such good quality videos, it does take a good amount of time, effort, and research. So, while I would want you to upload daily (lol), I can understand the gap between 2 videos.
Thanks for the video. Keep up the good work.
Who would have thought 2 years from know that we'd be playing a Remastered AoEII from now
Love the new clips from the intro
Great video for all of us Gbetos fans thanks man :) keep up the good work
And what about using them against buildings and SHIPS? As both make melee damage, they can be used to take down ships harassing the coast, especially in rivers where the ships cant go out of range.
I had excellent results cleaning up Italian ships with Gbeto. I had a few galleons getting their attention, acting as tanks, and the Gbeto just cleaned house and were able to easily dodge attacks with some micro.
Gbeto and Throwing Axeman are both good against ships, assuming they're not outranged.
Great video. I would personally never even bother upgrading the Gbeto, since they're not a primary combat unit. They're raiders, so you just want to make 6-8 of them in Castle Age and run around picking stuff off, especially if your enemy doesn't have cavalry to chase them down. Even though the Elite Gbeto gets 50% more HP, they still aren't really going to be strong enough to build en masse.
Throwing Axeman and Gbeto vs Slinger comparison was missing, but good video.
I know this video is a comparison between Throwing Axemen and Gbetos, but I'm curious about your opinion on how Franks can better protect their Paladins from Halbs/Pikes - with Handcannons or with Throwing Axemen? The Throwing thingies are quite expensive to upgrade and can only produced from castles, while Hand Cannons are not available early in imp, but only require Chemistry and three cheap archer armor upgrades.
1:50 lol, golden moment for this channel right there
SPIRIT OF THE LAW BEST AOE2HD TH-camR EVAR!!!!!!!!!!!111111
Finally more sotl
Your intro is so fun to watch lol
8:52-9:04 The throwing axes traveled without any rotation animation?? V strange looking! Does this happen often? Is it an artifact of the capture tech you're using? Is it reproducible?
The major thing you forgot or not mentioned is the building they are built from. Franks can make more castles to mass them up. Which the gbetos cannot easily match.
Make a video for the most useless unique units please!
Berserks ?
EDIT : just to argue a bit. Berseks are basically DeLuxe champs produced in castle (also a bit more expensive).
Every other UU has a perk that provides an unique advantage in some situational. Even elephant archers and jaguar warriors do have situational uses. And Tarkans finally got this cool +1 pierce armor.
Regeneration does not really provide a distinct edge against anything as a rather low HP frontliner is not the best unit to have a good use of it.
They have bonus with castel's upgrades
Zerks are faster, though, and thus a good raiding unit. Their regen allows them to tank tower/TC shots, run away, heal and strike again.
Edit: worst unique unit is the Organ gun. Have you seen it being used?
I would make an argument that the samuri is a very replaceable unit. Even Spirit of the Law himself, a japanese master doesnt typically use them.
GarlicReturns
Are Huns players finally using Tarkans a little bit more? I think the best way to use Tarkans is to literally destroy the opponents economy(not just force vills into TCs), blow up lumber camps, mining camps, mills, houses, farms,etc. totally cripple the opponent so that they have to spend resources just to come back. Especially I find that destroying farms and houses can be kind of a cheap way to get an early gg.
This kind of playstyle would also be in line with how the Huns raided Europe in the early ADs, destroying houses and economies. Of course this means you really need to get up a castle AND marauders to mass them up properly, but I think we can see more and more players starting to usr tarkans in this meta.
Before 1:56: What most TH-camrs do
After 1:56: What Spirit of the Law does.
I'm supposed to be doing schoolwork right now but you uploaded a video.
Dammit :(
Delay between start of attack in most games is called either "front swing" or "late alpha point" (alpha point being moment when damage is being dealt).
Throwing Axeman have been my favorite unit since I started playing back in 98. They are so tanky now adays. And rip through settlements like wildfire. They're alright vs other units, having such a high health pool now and a ranged melee attack. But the Gbeto is by far a much better raiders and flankers, simply because of their faster movement speed and high attack damage, while also maintaining the ranged melee advantage.
One thing though when considering cost is that the Franks have a discounted castle cost, which means they can start fielding them quicker. This is made up for with the gbeto having such a quick creation speed
Wouldn't the Gbeto's creation speed not count as an advantage considering both they and Axemen are created at the same rate?
Nice playing with you Spirit! I was purple in both games we played, aka S1lv3r :)
I'm sure you recognized a lot of your gameplay in the video. Gotta say I'm surprised by the 1550 elo.
It was my smurf account, im actually 1700++, although i perform alot better in teamgames as opposed to 1v1's
An important point to consider is cavalry get +5 attack. This means you can amass cheap meat shields to get in fast and then swarm with Gbeto. Another point to consider is onagers - when combined, the Malay unit can hold the line by protecting the siege, keeping horses in back and trash or rams in front. I love this civ for its simplicity - the weak HP is irrelevant when you melt everything headed your way.
So what I'm getting from the Gbeto is a West African Ninja vibe complete with throwing knives? Sweet!
Mamelukes, but not mounted.
honestly the axeman should do more damage ... it will be an impressive feeling to have a Waraxe thrown five or six metres hitting you that gonna hurt like hell
Darn it I was going to overview the throwing axe next :P
MALIAN OVERVIEW NEXT CONFIRMED!
Thought the franks UU was paladin.
Hey @Spirit Of The Law, great video as always, but I have a suggestion for you: there’s this game called “Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds”. It’s a SW RTS which is built on the AoE II Genie game engine. With it being a big time for Star Wars, I was thinking you should look into it (and maybe make a video on it please?). It looks a lot like AoE II at first, but it adds enough to make it feel unique (and actually like Star Wars). If you read this, thanks!
Me: alright, let's go... crap, misclicked on youtube, going back to home screeee- new Spirit of the Law video!
finally a new video i have been waiting so long!! when is next civilization overview?
went from 6 views to 1872 in a mili second
I think factor that, although minor, is overlooked in the video is that Frankish castles are cheaper than Malian ones, which means that one could produce Throwing Axemen in greater numbers. Or, to look at it another way, more castles means the more that one can afford to have destroyed without losing production.
i love u spirit of the law
One thing you didn't mention when pointing the weakness against arbalest was for Malians they get the insane piercing armour uprage (was it now +8 when FU), so just a few champs/halbs along side gbetos can do some serious mayhem when faced arbs, or any archer unit in the matter really
I still prefer Gbeto, they are very fast and in a decent number you can destroy buildings pretty fast, like a Town Center and get out :-) - (on the Black Forest if you mass Gbetos in the castle age, you can actually cut through enemy walls very fast and end the game on the spot).
When they were first introduced they had 14 attack, so nerf was needed.
Throwing Axemen on the other hand got buffed HP recently, I think its 20 bonus HP, to encourage using them.
Without the bonus HP I would say Gbetos would win against the Throwing Exmen in every way.
I like using Arambai against buidings lately :D
When will you upload the 25:05 min video (malian civ overview)?
Love your voice
You commented on the wrong youtube channel
Seriously guys, the music used in SOTL's videos is special. Wow the content is just fucked. Amazing
Wat
I want to know what their children will look like...
daddyleon
New Algerian unique unit in AOE4
Haha that might well make sense!!
Gbeto are also pretty nice as fire support for Malian Cavalry, since their speed helps such an army stay fairly mobile.
New Video! Christmas came early. Now only if we could multiplayer game play videos...
1:52 haha the end cards got me
Thats why Franks should always go for a mix of paladins and throwing axemen!
New SoTL video, FeelsGoodMan
i use a group of 60 gbeto in DE as just a roaming siege squad. they can drop an architecture TC in like 7-8 attacks and then peace out. not as pop efficient as actual siege, but way more hit and run-centric and not as vulnerable to being stopped.
I laugh every time at the car spazzing out in the intro.
The gbeto. Able to kite cavalry. And kill them because of their big damage. I think it's a huge advantage, they can murder knights without being a direct counter.
It's probably because of the Gbeto that the Malians can no longer get Halberdiers XD
I still think Gbeto+Malian Pikes are pure murder versus Knights in isolation though haha
Is the Arambai from Rise of the Rajas expansion tecnicaly a mounted Gbeto, since they have similar hit and run tatics, or they are an alternative version of the Mameluke?
I'd say neither (cuz they do pierce damage), but it's a good question... Arambai ftw!
I'd argue they are more of a conquistador. High attack but inaccurate.
Arambai are IMO one of the best eco raiding units in the game, apart from eagle warriors, gbetos and huskarls
AinaweeUAE
If I remember right they need a lot more micro because their accuracy is absolutely atrocious(too lazy to google but really awful) at their natural range but goes up significantly(I want to say something like double the hits land or something like that. again too lazy to google) if you micro inside of it allowing them to fully abuse their high attack
20% Regular, 30% Elite.
I think the Gbeto are stronger vs more tanky units because of the micro potential. Maybe we need a video on hit and run micro against cavalier to show that. Gbeto do a pretty insane job vs War Elephants even, if you can keep a little distance. Making a surprise run in and sniping a TC is definitely easier with Gbeto. Maybe these can be explored a little more in the civ overview?
Is there any chance of you doing another campaign vs history video in the future?
Merry christmas in case there's no new video during the upcoming week :)
Gbeto are female units, I think we don't have any more female warriors.
No, we still have female Spanish villager
And amazon warriors in the editor.
Another advantage for gbetos is their 6 range which allows them to damage town centres with melee damage without taking any damage from the tc
P. S.
Sorry for my english
Doing this before Malian civ overview....
I always saw the axemen as defensive units against siege forces while ghbeto are light raiders to frustrate the enemy’s production.
Next Mangudai vs Camel Archer
aginst eachother camle archer has an advantage, aginst other units MANGUDAI ALL THE WAY
ruso gaming Well the first one is obvious but about the later one Im not sure. In current pro 1v1 meta (=Wololo Kingdoms in Voobly) Camel Archers are considered one of the most OP unit in the game and Berbers should go almost every time with them. Mangudais instead sees usage only in Imperial.
Camel archer is anticavarly archer, camel archer counter mangudais ....
"triumvirate of trash"
oh so you've heard about my three marriages
Hey Spirit, do you stream any aoe matches?