How long do you wait in between shots? I can’t ever find a good answer to this if it is a 70° day, are you still waiting three minutes in between each shot or are you shooting a group at a time? Also, are you shooting a couple shotsof random ammo before Utting your proof so your barrel is already hot?
I don’t think the guys make any more videos these days. I have fire one shot every 40 or so seconds when shooting 5 shot groups. This way the barrel doesn’t get hot and it ensures good long barrel life.
So I drank the Staterlee kool-aid, and his system absolutely worked like magic. It's amazing to see how this works so consistently. The nodes were crystal clear, and easy to interpret.
Now I’m sure I’ve finally reached that point where I need a chronograph. Recently I’ve shot 1/4 and better with a max of 1/2” groups at 100 yards tells me right there why I’m not 7 or 9 hits out of 10 shots at 1000 yards. Factory ammo has been stellar at shorter distances up to 710 yards. Sure there’s some varying results that I don’t think anyone would complain about but for the end game more is needed. I made 5 hits out of 20 or so shots at 1025. Thanks for the vid guys! always enjoy. This helped confirmed its time to take it a step deeper into braking loads down and measuring everything including speed.
I know this is belated, and probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense... but thanks for all the work you guys do on your page and this video channel. that Excel spreadsheet has dropped my round-count for load development considerably, and the data gathered is much more valuable to me now. Cheers guys
Good video folks. I'll be changing some aspects of how I analyze my load data. Particularly graphing in Excel to locate best accuracy potentials. In starting fresh with a new 6.5Grendel AR15 and 130gr Berger AR Hybrid bullets, so I will work up every bit of data from the beginning with this method.
My lawd, what a great video. Thank you guys. Scott is a genius. I am a newbie and I learned so much from this video. I really appreciate you guys for delivering such amazing content and helping us random guys on the internet.
... question... I got a new rifle with new unfired brass... with the cost of all the components today... not making sense to simply firearm the brass to my chamber, how would you start, as in steps. ? 1 . Determine OAL (with a Hornady gauge) ? 2. load up rounds say sets of 3 (in .2 gn increments)... 10/1000's of the max length from #1 3. find the sweet spot ? At what point would you think/consider to increase/decrease the seating depth, At what point would you consider/look at a different primer and what effect that might have? This is for a HOWA 1500, 300 PRC, ADG Brass, Hornady ELDM 225gr, looking at using Federal 215 Large rifle primers be keen to see, maybe you have a video, showing step by step your process.
Hi guys; thanks for putting these vids out here. It is much appreciated; I am relatively new to reloading. However, I have seen others (Hornady, Winning in the Wind) that show that using 5 round groups will not really give you nodes; it is not statistically significant. They suggest that velocity is just directly proportional to powder charge. This is not to say that a given charge doesn't make a difference in dispersion! As I have become quite aware there are many variables associated with internal ballistics that can have an effect on precision. What I don't have at this time is a feel for which have the greatest impact. I am not looking to become a LD or BR precision shooter, but want to work up really good loads for hunting. How about a Pareto chart for all the variables? (Let's exclude the shooter.) Thanks again; great vids.
Excellent episode, I also have noticed the best loads generally have tight ES/SD numbers and I have often thought of running a load test in this fashion... I have always chickened out due to the POI shift from the magnetospeed and for what ever reason my groups with it attached always seem shoot tighter than with out it attached. Which makes me wonder if its dampening harmonics like some of those rubber donuts you can buy for your barrel or if its because of the added length it adds to the barrel, there by dampening the human element by making it take just a little more effort/time to move off target in the micro second you trigger your shot and the bullet leaves the barrel. looking forward to part two.
Niles Coyote Thanks for watching. When we were at SHOT Show we talked to the Magneto Speed folks about group shifts. It has nothing to do with the weight on the barrel, rather it's something similar to ground effect when the bullet passes over the bayonet. Turn the magneto speed in 90 degree increments and you'll see the group move accordingly. While I've noticed that my groups shift, they are the same size with and without the magneto speed.
Ed Mobley I am putting this new (to me) load development method to the test on a new 6.5 creedmoor barrel and will be using the 130 Berger AR Hybrid's and H4350... I hope to finalize tomorrow and use it at a Guardian Match on the 27th. I'll start a thread on the Hide once I am done with development.
So, compared to a Newberry OCW, you are adding SD and ES measurements, over just group size. By shooting in groups by charge weight you don't get the normalizing of all groups to barrel and environmental variations that you would get by using more of a round robin technique (each shot, move to next charge wt & target). Advantage stated is not moving position much by shooting one group at a time, and can use the chrono to calc SD, etc. Do need more shots per charge to get meaningful SD. Big improvement in meaningful result over scatter ladder, though.
ZManiac335 Thanks for watching! That's an excellent summary of the approach. If we had a machine rest, or were supremely confident in our dot drill skills, we would shoot round robin for the very reasons you state. It would be fair to say that this approach is a bit of a compromise.
So ive been told don't back off the lands more then .015 to eliminate the bullet slamming into the lands initally. Backing off the lands .02 and you guys aren't seeing any signs of the bullet jumping into the lands/wearing out your lands sooner then expected or anything inconsistent in the accuracy? I'm just curious. @6.5 Guys
Hi Jake - we have not heard that advice. To the contrary, we've spoken with some bullet manufacturers who recommend even further jump distances. You'll find this piece from Berger interesting where they recommend jump from .030-040 for their VLD bullets: www.bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/
Ed Mobley good read. Might be worth looking into. I havent gotten into the precision shooting side of things with my 6.5 yet. Use it more for hunting and shooting out to 500 ish yards for fun. Might make me want to see how far I can stretch my "hunting" rifle out to.
Guys, I just discovered you today and I'm impressed with the information that you provide in your videos; however, I do have a recommendation that will help us older farts better understand the information - when you mention a product or a procedure or a recipie or whatever, please consider flashing away from the pretty faces and show an example of what you are discussing along with the written words in case we can't understand what you're saying. When I watched the, "A look at rear bags" video, I had to keep cycling back through where each of you were saying, "Wiebad Pump Pillow" and finally I gave up on that and just started blindly googling things such as, "we bag pump pillow" and finally stumbled upon the correct product. Thanks!
+David Hampton - thanks for the watching our videos and the great feedback. The best place to usually find this type of information is on the detailed write-up we have of each video that we post on our website (www.65guys.com). We'll also try to work on adding the product names as either subtitles in the video or in the video information/description on TH-cam.
Question - In your opinion, with a brand new never fired rifle, should I shoot 60ish rounds to lay down copper in the barrel before starting Phase 1 Step 2?
Barrel break-in is one of those religious topics with endless discussions - just search around on the topic. While we don't engage in any type of barrel break-in procedure we have observed that velocities really settle down after the first 100 shots. That being said, I'd feel more comfortable doing my load development after the first hundred rounds. If I had a new barrel would I fire 100 rounds solely for the purpose of load development? No I wouldn't especially if I was shooting 6mm as that represents a good portion of the barrel life.
A lot of people start with a new barrel and work up a load till they find what works, in reality they just got the barrel broken in to a point where it shoots consistently.
Great vids guys, keep them coming. Wanted to ask about the range graph results, there were a couple of loads that had group sizes in the 0.7 inch range. You didn't consider those good loads because of higher SD. BUT, only one of the shots in both cases caused the SD to go up. Statistically speaking, this one shot would be designated as an outlier no? Why wouldn't you load up some more rounds for those loads just to confirm that you do not have/have an outlier?
You make a good point. I could have explored an accuracy node up at the higher loads, but the lower capacity accuracy node seemed to be wider and more forgiving in terms of level of muzzle velocity variation to the powder charge (the flat shelf in curve we talked about) which is the sweet spot I wanted to be in. Also, at the higher end of the curve I didn't want to run into issues of potentially dealing with a compressed load.
caskasnr We're going to do the final post production over the weekend so within the next two weeks. We did a workup on 123 Scenars with H4350 and Varget and 139 Scenars with H4350. The biggest challenge with the 6.5x47 is settling on a load because there are really no bad loads. Most SDs were in the single digits and most groups were under 1/2 inch. I contrast that with load development that I did on the .260 a while back and there were clearly good and bad loads.
A note and a question: 1) In the powder velocity matrix (around the 18:00 minute mark), you've chosen the "stdev.s" function for excel. It seems to me that it should have been the stdev.p function, which calculates the entire population of selected data. 2) In the same graph, what does the red line tracking? It appears that it is mostly tracking the median velocity for each powder charge, but it clearly is tacked to the mean for the first powder charge series of shots. You talk a lot about the "shelf", but never mention exactly what that red line tracks (or did I miss it?)
The Excel sheet was developed using an older version of Excel and uses the STDEV function. As you noted, newer versions of Excel have STDEV.S and STDEV.P. The model can be updated to use the STDEV.P function, which statistically would be more accurate. However, the calculated result usually differs in less than 1 FPS difference - so for visually interpreting the chrono data it makes no practical difference. The key stat of interest should be extreme spread. The Red line isn't actually graphed using Excel - it is 'hand drawn' in an attempt to interpolate a smooth curve function across the average/median points of the different loads. The "shelf" we refer to in the video is that part of the curve where there is very little rise in average FPS from one load to the next or where the curve starts to flatten out slightly.
On the OCW analysis graph (17:46 into the video), is the smooth graph line generated from the Median fps and straight trend line generated from the Average fps ?
Yes. However, with Excel you could change the graph easily to visualize the data the other way. In general I prefer to use a median statistic for group average since it tends to deal better with data outliers compared to a mean statistic, particularly if you are only calculating the mean or median using five shots for the same charge weight.
+John McDonald There isn't an 'algorithm' that we are using. We are comparing the charted data points and comparing against a hypothetical linear relationship (straight line graph) between grains of powder and muzzle velocity. Where we see the curve start to flatten out, that is the plateau we are referring to.
+John McDonald There are some loads we developed with Varget where it's literally a straight line - no plateau. Must be one of the reasons Varget is so popular.
"Effects", not "Affects"... as for chonys, try the labradar (maybe didn't exist when they made this video) handgun and longguns. little temperamental with cans but you can make it work. glad you said 5 shots isn't an accurate sample! too many people shoot 3 shot groups and draw a hard conclusion about their loads based on that. "this 3-shot 1/4 moa group must be the best load!"
@17:45, HOW THE HOLY HECK DID YOU MAKE THAT CHART?!! I just wrecked two nights trying three different spreadsheet programs and every dot, scatter, and line chart I could come up with... only to end up drinking myself to sleep out of frustration. Please, for the love of all that is holy... please show me the ways of the Force, and how to make this chart.
The excel model is available for free as a an Excel file download on our website - www.65guys.com. Search for the article write-up of this video and you'll find the link to the file withing the article. Note that in the spring time frame Steve will be releasing an update to the Excel model to make it a little more user friendly and also have a video episode to provide a tutorial for how to use the model to analyze your chronograph load data.
I'm dumbfound, I have a half-answer in the form on an OpenOffice spreadsheet graph (finally) but it doesn't read as intuitively as yours. Thank you for your time, energy, thought, consideration, and the value you bring to the table. The more I read your website, and the video content you constantly push out, the more I am impressed. You guys are a real quality act. I'm gonna say this in the most heterosexual way I know how... I love you. Keep up the amazing work, and thanks again. Total bro-crush going on over here.
Admittedly, I am not a smart man... but I can tie my own shoes and make a grilled cheese sandwich. I just shot two free nights in the face trying to replicate this exquisite chart format. To no avail. I drank myself to sleep on night two after spending a good half-hour shaking my fist angrily at the sky cursing my creator. Please, for the sake of the children, please move this up your list of "internet things to do". You'd do it for Randolph Scott.
Nice video guys. Great info! Ed, curious if you had a chance to work up your 6.5CM load with the new 130 AR? I just got some and put them through my 260 and was blown away by the velocities. Would like to hear your results. You can contact me on SH at FTRinPA if you want.
Hi - we're not shooting the 6.5 CM yet so don't have anything to share. We will be reviewing the new Lapua 6.5 CM brass with the small primer pocket. Long story short, the small rifle primer pocket results in a very durable case.
Ed Mobley it was fine on my 16" barrels DTA but my custom Remington with a 26" barrel it ruined accuracy. I figured it must be a case of altered harmonics.....
This information is dead on. One consideration one may have is making the OAL short enough to fit in a magazine, (you may be stuck going shorter than optimal OAL.) That's when I cry tears in my beers.
I didn't know how to send you an email message, so I picked one of your videos at random so I could communicate some information to you. I watched one of your Hornady Comparator videos and you didn't know how to align the anvil with its mate. I included a link to show you how. Go to th-cam.com/video/whln3B3DFAY/w-d-xo.html and start at 12:45 minutes into the video. He explains it. Both of my Hornady parts line up exactly, simply by moving the screw on one of them. Credit is given to HornadyLoader. Hope this helps.
Awesome I found this channel..I've been a grendel reloader for a long time but I just got a creed and am learning how to tune a load for my set up
How long do you wait in between shots? I can’t ever find a good answer to this if it is a 70° day, are you still waiting three minutes in between each shot or are you shooting a group at a time? Also, are you shooting a couple shotsof random ammo before Utting your proof so your barrel is already hot?
I don’t think the guys make any more videos these days. I have fire one shot every 40 or so seconds when shooting 5 shot groups. This way the barrel doesn’t get hot and it ensures good long barrel life.
So I drank the Staterlee kool-aid, and his system absolutely worked like magic. It's amazing to see how this works so consistently. The nodes were crystal clear, and easy to interpret.
Now I’m sure I’ve finally reached that point where I need a chronograph. Recently I’ve shot 1/4 and better with a max of 1/2” groups at 100 yards tells me right there why I’m not 7 or 9 hits out of 10 shots at 1000 yards. Factory ammo has been stellar at shorter distances up to 710 yards. Sure there’s some varying results that I don’t think anyone would complain about but for the end game more is needed. I made 5 hits out of 20 or so shots at 1025. Thanks for the vid guys! always enjoy. This helped confirmed its time to take it a step deeper into braking loads down and measuring everything including speed.
Back in my 6ppc 200yd benchrest days my best loads for group shooting had about 60fps es.
I know this is belated, and probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense... but thanks for all the work you guys do on your page and this video channel. that Excel spreadsheet has dropped my round-count for load development considerably, and the data gathered is much more valuable to me now. Cheers guys
Thanks for you positive comment. Happy shooting!
Good video folks. I'll be changing some aspects of how I analyze my load data. Particularly graphing in Excel to locate best accuracy potentials.
In starting fresh with a new 6.5Grendel AR15 and 130gr Berger AR Hybrid bullets, so I will work up every bit of data from the beginning with this method.
Jason McKinney Thanks for watching Jason. Please let us know what you find out.
My lawd, what a great video. Thank you guys. Scott is a genius. I am a newbie and I learned so much from this video. I really appreciate you guys for delivering such amazing content and helping us random guys on the internet.
Glad you enjoyed it!
My life goal is finding a range buddy that looks at me the way you look at each other 😍
So true. LOL.
Lmao
... question... I got a new rifle with new unfired brass... with the cost of all the components today... not making sense to simply firearm the brass to my chamber,
how would you start, as in steps. ?
1 . Determine OAL (with a Hornady gauge) ?
2. load up rounds say sets of 3 (in .2 gn increments)... 10/1000's of the max length from #1
3. find the sweet spot ?
At what point would you think/consider to increase/decrease the seating depth,
At what point would you consider/look at a different primer and what effect that might have?
This is for a HOWA 1500, 300 PRC, ADG Brass, Hornady ELDM 225gr, looking at using Federal 215 Large rifle primers
be keen to see, maybe you have a video, showing step by step your process.
Hi guys; thanks for putting these vids out here. It is much appreciated; I am relatively new to reloading.
However, I have seen others (Hornady, Winning in the Wind) that show that using 5 round groups will not really give you nodes; it is not statistically significant. They suggest that velocity is just directly proportional to powder charge. This is not to say that a given charge doesn't make a difference in dispersion! As I have become quite aware there are many variables associated with internal ballistics that can have an effect on precision. What I don't have at this time is a feel for which have the greatest impact. I am not looking to become a LD or BR precision shooter, but want to work up really good loads for hunting. How about a Pareto chart for all the variables? (Let's exclude the shooter.) Thanks again; great vids.
Excellent episode, I also have noticed the best loads generally have tight ES/SD numbers and I have often thought of running a load test in this fashion... I have always chickened out due to the POI shift from the magnetospeed and for what ever reason my groups with it attached always seem shoot tighter than with out it attached. Which makes me wonder if its dampening harmonics like some of those rubber donuts you can buy for your barrel or if its because of the added length it adds to the barrel, there by dampening the human element by making it take just a little more effort/time to move off target in the micro second you trigger your shot and the bullet leaves the barrel.
looking forward to part two.
Niles Coyote Thanks for watching. When we were at SHOT Show we talked to the Magneto Speed folks about group shifts. It has nothing to do with the weight on the barrel, rather it's something similar to ground effect when the bullet passes over the bayonet. Turn the magneto speed in 90 degree increments and you'll see the group move accordingly. While I've noticed that my groups shift, they are the same size with and without the magneto speed.
Ed Mobley I am putting this new (to me) load development method to the test on a new 6.5 creedmoor barrel and will be using the 130 Berger AR Hybrid's and H4350... I hope to finalize tomorrow and use it at a Guardian Match on the 27th. I'll start a thread on the Hide once I am done with development.
Niles Coyote Thanks Niles!
“Welcom to an utter episode of 6.5 guys”
I’m waiting for the udders.
So, compared to a Newberry OCW, you are adding SD and ES measurements, over just group size. By shooting in groups by charge weight you don't get the normalizing of all groups to barrel and environmental variations that you would get by using more of a round robin technique (each shot, move to next charge wt & target). Advantage stated is not moving position much by shooting one group at a time, and can use the chrono to calc SD, etc. Do need more shots per charge to get meaningful SD. Big improvement in meaningful result over scatter ladder, though.
ZManiac335 Thanks for watching! That's an excellent summary of the approach. If we had a machine rest, or were supremely confident in our dot drill skills, we would shoot round robin for the very reasons you state. It would be fair to say that this approach is a bit of a compromise.
Great video with awesome information. I like the way you break it down with the slides.
Thanks Jeff.
Quit interrupting each other!!! Good lord!!!
Really informative videos - thanks for sharing! What distances would you shoot the 130g VLD's and what group size would you be happy with? Thanks
@23:23 "Stay classy San Diego... Thanks for stopping by"
Awesome series guys.
Neil Harris Thanks Neil
Great Info.
Finally someone explain how to find COL for the regular guy.
Glad you found it helpful!
Do you guys have a link to where I can learn to make graphs like that in Excel?
At what range would you suggest performing this test? Great video!
Thank you for the reply, keep the videos coming, very good info.
Bubbaleeroypjjohnson Thanks for watching!
Is there any way to get this formatted to work in google sheets so we can use it on an iPad/tablet? Awesome videos
So ive been told don't back off the lands more then .015 to eliminate the bullet slamming into the lands initally. Backing off the lands .02 and you guys aren't seeing any signs of the bullet jumping into the lands/wearing out your lands sooner then expected or anything inconsistent in the accuracy? I'm just curious. @6.5 Guys
Hi Jake - we have not heard that advice. To the contrary, we've spoken with some bullet manufacturers who recommend even further jump distances. You'll find this piece from Berger interesting where they recommend jump from .030-040 for their VLD bullets: www.bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/
Ed Mobley good read. Might be worth looking into. I havent gotten into the precision shooting side of things with my 6.5 yet. Use it more for hunting and shooting out to 500 ish yards for fun. Might make me want to see how far I can stretch my "hunting" rifle out to.
Best of luck and thanks for watching!
Guys, I just discovered you today and I'm impressed with the information that you provide in your videos; however, I do have a recommendation that will help us older farts better understand the information - when you mention a product or a procedure or a recipie or whatever, please consider flashing away from the pretty faces and show an example of what you are discussing along with the written words in case we can't understand what you're saying. When I watched the, "A look at rear bags" video, I had to keep cycling back through where each of you were saying, "Wiebad Pump Pillow" and finally I gave up on that and just started blindly googling things such as, "we bag pump pillow" and finally stumbled upon the correct product. Thanks!
+David Hampton - thanks for the watching our videos and the great feedback. The best place to usually find this type of information is on the detailed write-up we have of each video that we post on our website (www.65guys.com). We'll also try to work on adding the product names as either subtitles in the video or in the video information/description on TH-cam.
Question - In your opinion, with a brand new never fired rifle, should I shoot 60ish rounds to lay down copper in the barrel before starting Phase 1 Step 2?
Barrel break-in is one of those religious topics with endless discussions - just search around on the topic. While we don't engage in any type of barrel break-in procedure we have observed that velocities really settle down after the first 100 shots. That being said, I'd feel more comfortable doing my load development after the first hundred rounds. If I had a new barrel would I fire 100 rounds solely for the purpose of load development? No I wouldn't especially if I was shooting 6mm as that represents a good portion of the barrel life.
A lot of people start with a new barrel and work up a load till they find what works, in reality they just got the barrel broken in to a point where it shoots consistently.
Great vids guys, keep them coming. Wanted to ask about the range graph results, there were a couple of loads that had group sizes in the 0.7 inch range. You didn't consider those good loads because of higher SD. BUT, only one of the shots in both cases caused the SD to go up. Statistically speaking, this one shot would be designated as an outlier no? Why wouldn't you load up some more rounds for those loads just to confirm that you do not have/have an outlier?
You make a good point. I could have explored an accuracy node up at the higher loads, but the lower capacity accuracy node seemed to be wider and more forgiving in terms of level of muzzle velocity variation to the powder charge (the flat shelf in curve we talked about) which is the sweet spot I wanted to be in. Also, at the higher end of the curve I didn't want to run into issues of potentially dealing with a compressed load.
Do y’all have a video on brass prep?
can't wait for the next episode guys
caskasnr You'll enjoy it. I actually got a load with an SD of 1
When can we expect it Ed?
caskasnr We're going to do the final post production over the weekend so within the next two weeks. We did a workup on 123 Scenars with H4350 and Varget and 139 Scenars with H4350. The biggest challenge with the 6.5x47 is settling on a load because there are really no bad loads. Most SDs were in the single digits and most groups were under 1/2 inch. I contrast that with load development that I did on the .260 a while back and there were clearly good and bad loads.
Ed Mobley Love the channel guys keep up the good work! The wait for part two is killing me :-)
***** Thanks for watching and it's exciting to know that folks are eager to hear what we have to say. We are humbled.
A note and a question:
1) In the powder velocity matrix (around the 18:00 minute mark), you've chosen the "stdev.s" function for excel. It seems to me that it should have been the stdev.p function, which calculates the entire population of selected data.
2) In the same graph, what does the red line tracking? It appears that it is mostly tracking the median velocity for each powder charge, but it clearly is tacked to the mean for the first powder charge series of shots. You talk a lot about the "shelf", but never mention exactly what that red line tracks (or did I miss it?)
The Excel sheet was developed using an older version of Excel and uses the STDEV function. As you noted, newer versions of Excel have STDEV.S and STDEV.P. The model can be updated to use the STDEV.P function, which statistically would be more accurate. However, the calculated result usually differs in less than 1 FPS difference - so for visually interpreting the chrono data it makes no practical difference. The key stat of interest should be extreme spread.
The Red line isn't actually graphed using Excel - it is 'hand drawn' in an attempt to interpolate a smooth curve function across the average/median points of the different loads. The "shelf" we refer to in the video is that part of the curve where there is very little rise in average FPS from one load to the next or where the curve starts to flatten out slightly.
On the OCW analysis graph (17:46 into the video), is the smooth graph line generated from the Median fps and straight trend line generated from the Average fps ?
Yes. However, with Excel you could change the graph easily to visualize the data the other way. In general I prefer to use a median statistic for group average since it tends to deal better with data outliers compared to a mean statistic, particularly if you are only calculating the mean or median using five shots for the same charge weight.
What curve fitting algorithm do you use for the velocity/sd vs grains of powder. I ask because the "plateau" wasn't so apparent to me.
+John McDonald There isn't an 'algorithm' that we are using. We are comparing the charted data points and comparing against a hypothetical linear relationship (straight line graph) between grains of powder and muzzle velocity. Where we see the curve start to flatten out, that is the plateau we are referring to.
+6.5 Guys Thanks. I was asking because you have a smoothed curve fit to the mean velocity values, not a straight regression line. I'll try this out.
+John McDonald There are some loads we developed with Varget where it's literally a straight line - no plateau. Must be one of the reasons Varget is so popular.
"Effects", not "Affects"... as for chonys, try the labradar (maybe didn't exist when they made this video) handgun and longguns. little temperamental with cans but you can make it work. glad you said 5 shots isn't an accurate sample! too many people shoot 3 shot groups and draw a hard conclusion about their loads based on that. "this 3-shot 1/4 moa group must be the best load!"
is the chronograph excel spread sheet with graph available for download?
Bubbaleeroypjjohnson Thanks for watching. Let me get that up on our web site.
Nice vid I watched the whole thing .
Thank you!
Nice TV. I haven't seen a tube TV in years.
The only trouble is that Scott is a Seahawks fan
@17:45, HOW THE HOLY HECK DID YOU MAKE THAT CHART?!! I just wrecked two nights trying three different spreadsheet programs and every dot, scatter, and line chart I could come up with... only to end up drinking myself to sleep out of frustration. Please, for the love of all that is holy... please show me the ways of the Force, and how to make this chart.
The excel model is available for free as a an Excel file download on our website - www.65guys.com. Search for the article write-up of this video and you'll find the link to the file withing the article. Note that in the spring time frame Steve will be releasing an update to the Excel model to make it a little more user friendly and also have a video episode to provide a tutorial for how to use the model to analyze your chronograph load data.
I'm dumbfound, I have a half-answer in the form on an OpenOffice spreadsheet graph (finally) but it doesn't read as intuitively as yours. Thank you for your time, energy, thought, consideration, and the value you bring to the table. The more I read your website, and the video content you constantly push out, the more I am impressed. You guys are a real quality act. I'm gonna say this in the most heterosexual way I know how... I love you. Keep up the amazing work, and thanks again. Total bro-crush going on over here.
Could you do a video on how you graph your range results in excel? That would be awesome!!!
That's actually in the plans!
Admittedly, I am not a smart man... but I can tie my own shoes and make a grilled cheese sandwich. I just shot two free nights in the face trying to replicate this exquisite chart format. To no avail. I drank myself to sleep on night two after spending a good half-hour shaking my fist angrily at the sky cursing my creator. Please, for the sake of the children, please move this up your list of "internet things to do". You'd do it for Randolph Scott.
Nice video guys. Great info! Ed, curious if you had a chance to work up your 6.5CM load with the new 130 AR? I just got some and put them through my 260 and was blown away by the velocities. Would like to hear your results. You can contact me on SH at FTRinPA if you want.
Hi - we're not shooting the 6.5 CM yet so don't have anything to share. We will be reviewing the new Lapua 6.5 CM brass with the small primer pocket. Long story short, the small rifle primer pocket results in a very durable case.
What happened to the 65 guys??????
Go Hawks!
Yes!
I found I can't shoot for groups with my magnetospeed on as it really opens the groups. I have to do this as a separate stage
While the magnetospeed will change the point of impact, we have not observed it opening up groups. Make sure it's good and tight on the barrel.
Ed Mobley it was fine on my 16" barrels DTA but my custom Remington with a 26" barrel it ruined accuracy. I figured it must be a case of altered harmonics.....
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I know this is old. what if you get low sd and es but group size is over 1moa?
Chocoloco654.. this is not a situation unique to me. many have talked about their best accuracy groups are not the tightest of sd and or es.
Methodology, rule no 1 : avoid prs positions LOL
do i need a crongraph to load develop
If you follow the approach/methodology discussed in this video episode you will need to use a chronograph.
Yes, I feel it is the only way to get the most accurate load
Is that Peter from family guy
This information is dead on. One consideration one may have is making the OAL short enough to fit in a magazine, (you may be stuck going shorter than optimal OAL.) That's when I cry tears in my beers.
Thanks for the comment. Yes, it's very common for shooters to run into mag length restrictions while trying to tune the seating depth of a load.
I didn't know how to send you an email message, so I picked one of your videos at random so I could communicate some information to you. I watched one of your Hornady Comparator videos and you didn't know how to align the anvil with its mate. I included a link to show you how. Go to th-cam.com/video/whln3B3DFAY/w-d-xo.html and start at 12:45 minutes into the video. He explains it. Both of my Hornady parts line up exactly, simply by moving the screw on one of them. Credit is given to HornadyLoader. Hope this helps.
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Hope you have learned not to interrupt!
An udder episode
If you cannot decide on bullet group in a simple 10 round ladder test ? You need to feed you tube for likes
You need to look at the camera 90% and at each other 10 % instead of the opposite you are doing now. Your video is good but hard to watch.
Hey guys i made a video of how to use your spreadsheet!
th-cam.com/video/rAIl14lLQ2w/w-d-xo.html
Get to the point don't waist time giving commentary, what's the best giving formula