Longbow vs. Horsebow - Archery Comparison
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2018
- Was a FAQ, so I put there my 50 cents.
Interesting to see that the higher the arrow weight, the closer the result in speed. But look for yourself.
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Armin Hirmer
Malta Archery
100 Triq Annibale Preca
Lija LJA 1915
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This guy is chill af.
There is nothing chill about f.
@@dqw4w9wgxcq32 Yes there are chill as f
Steppe Warriors: We made a composite bow with sinew and bone and a recurve design that gives our bows a unique draw and power for it's small size, making it versatile and perfect for mounted archery.
Drunk Brit: Just remove the bark and slap a string on it. We'll do push up till we can draw it.
Different cultures, different concept. But the same purpose, that is "how tf do I stab that smug son of a gun right there while standing here"
@@then00brathalos True. I think the real key difference between the bows is in the arrows they shot. The mongols we're shooting a fast, accurate bullet. The English we're shooting Cruise Missiles.
Plus take in the different style and technique of drawing the bow.
The Mediterranean draw doesn't all you to draw the bow at full draw.
The arrow doesn't get pulled back to where the arrow head or tip is on your hand or thumb.
While on the other hand the thumb draw of the eastern styles it allows full draw and easier release. Also draw weight would be as said 70-90 and up depending how far the mongol bows are able to go. Bone and harden wood and other ingredients making the bow is no joke as that's alot stronger than a single piece of thick wood
the steppe bows efectively worked against europeans when mongols did battle against russians on kalka and after conquering eu countrys mongol archers ever was more efective against heavily armours
Khergit Veteran Horse Archer: *"Let me show you how it's done."* -mounts horse-.
@Adalet91 stfu bannerlord
Bannerlord is crap
Horse Archers are trash in game btw (warband)
A couple hundred Swedish Knights ride over the hill and laugh...
@Adalet91 It's the other way around actually. They used be Khuzaits.
As an American who grew up learning to fire rifles and pistols, I have to say there is something almost artistic and pure with bows that firearms lack. Love your videos btw. Gonna subscribe.
I agree. I'm only a newbie and have a cheap Samick Sage recurve bow but every shot I'm in awe of how _right_ it feels to shoot. I've just learned today about these asiatic/horse bows and much prefer the size, design, and functionality. The idea of the thumb draw is also interesting to me and I hope to soon get a cheap beginner asiatic bow to begin training thumb draw
EDIT: btw Mr. Hirmer, I don't know if you read 2 year old comments but love your videos!
I'm a bit of a gun nut myself, and I agree. I don't think I quite got so into guns like I have with archery at the moment. Not only am I going out nearly every week to practice, but I also have gotten into making my own. I don't see myself ever getting into gunsmithing, but bowyering is quite nice.
@@ShadeSlayer1911 I’m the opposite. The analog mechanisms of guns fascinate me. They’re almost like clocks except they have to endure thousands of tiny explosions.
@@Dbbehsuzysgx I find the mechanics of guns to be fascinating too. But the thing is that they're too complex for me to ever see myself crafting them. I enjoy learning about them just fine. But with archery, I can make my own bows.
@@ShadeSlayer1911 Very true and a poorly made gun could seriously hurt you
I have 2 horse bows, 3 recurve bows, 3 long bows and 3 Compound bows. I loved all of them. They are different from each other but they are great to shoot for fun at my backyard. I never hunt. Never have a thinking about going to hunt 😂😂😂. Thank you, Armin. God bless.
Who made your bows?
Better question. Which bow shoots farther?
Hi sir... Which would you recommend for enjoyability? I'm looking for a comparison between all these and can't find one💔 pls help from experience
Wich one do you prefer? :)
Which one of your bows do you prefer?
I love the history and construction methods of historical bows. A beautiful collection you have there, you describe the character of the bows with anologue like 'feel'. I NEED to get back into archery.
Excellent comparison, the summary is really nice.
Thank you Armin!
This is the only video I could find on this topic. Really interesting!
Thank you this was a very informative video for me. It helped me make my decision on which bow to buy.
I’ve always been a longbow archer, but I love the size of a recurve.
There’s just something I like about the feeling of holding a longbow
These videos are great !! Easy to learn terminology..I'm taking notes..too many archery snobs out here in Cali they act like it's privileged information. Wish you were here..the videos make up for it. Thanks again 🙏
Nelson West
Not everyone in Cali is as selfish.
😎👍
🏹🏴🎯
I am no archer, neither I know what bow is the best as you do. Recently I read that in late 17th century a Turkish official in England wanted to attend archery competitions with his composite bow but he wasn't allowed. Anyway he finds a way to enter with the help of embassador. He his arrows reached double the distance the best local archer managed. They were so impressed that they asked him if he was the champion back in Istanbul. He said '' No, with this distance they don't even let me compete, let alone they call me a true archer'' I think his range was somehwere 400 meters
It's like entering cutting competiton with a katana, while all the others have arming swords. Outcome indeed might be impressive, if they dont realize thats pretty much cheating. Ok, maybe not cheating, cause who know what rules were there, if anything is allowed then fine. But its not not fair competition. One is optimized for range, the other is not. If range was priority for longbow, they woulndn't be using heaviest arrows ever used.
Don't know about that m8
Excellent comparison ... I knew already, but liked to see how you demonstrate yourself :P
Armin is such a great archer and teacher. Wish we had him here in Australia 🇦🇺
I love your comparison onthese two types of bows. Interesting to watch and as usual I always learn something new. Thankyou very much Armin 😀🏹
hello,, nice to see you, I'm a archer from indonesia
Hello, nice to see you too :-)
I used to shoot competitively, however my love for different equipment meant I would suffer if I shot different bows. I gave up shooting competitions and just shoot for fun. You have excellent form for adapting to new bows. The muscle memory has to be fast acquired and short term to shoot lots of bows. Instinctive shooting is lots of fun! Thanks for the great video!!!!!
quite a enjoyable video, glad to see what i always thought to be the case was true about the longbow being better suited to heavier arrows.
very informative, wonderful Technic, thank you for the demonstration.
Very interesting, thanks! I dropped out of archery as a teen, and picked up electric guitar. I never lost interest, but was so disappointed when it seemed traditional bows were ignored for new high tech compound bows. So glad to see people loving historical archery!
On another note: I have a 78" arm span and never found arrows long enough for me, plus archery shops were nonexistent back then.
I could have really used a long bow and long heavy arrows comfortably with great effect.
How tall are you ?!
76".@@greenybros
thank you for this video...I love all kind of bows ^^
I'd like for my horse to Bow, but I prefer him Strong.
Haw Haw :p
I don't think those bows in your jard really suit you! rofl!
Great comparison - thanks!
I like your channel of all archery channels the most!
Thank you
thank you for the comparison
Impressed that we even have an actual archery shop in this little island! Definitely going to visit soon 😁
I love that sound of longbow!
I really appreciate the video.
Very interesting,...….thanks so much for posting.
Excellent video! I think a sequel would be to take the same 2 bows and shoot the horn bow with a thumb ring
This is pure art!
we enjoyed your programme
Great accuracy!
I have longbow and a hose bow to and that was very interesting thanks for the demonstration love it 👍👍🎯🎯
Exactly what I was looking for. Shooting a longbow considering a horse bow. This was the next best thing to going to a store and fiddling with them myself. Of course I've been those stores don't exist within a 500 mi radius
He is way way way above my level, I'm just trying to keep up by watching more videos and nitpick what i need to work on.
Thank you!
Btw, it looked like the longbow had a more smooth release and better accuracy than the more compact bows.
nice insights. thank you :)
very nice bow, I really like to see your background video,, thanks a lot
excellent archer this man
My favorite bows are like these two in this video: a Bear Polar, and Csaba Grozer Scythian. As for the arrow on the 'wrong' side: I ALWAYS use the European draw. Have to, since I can't hit the side of a barn using the thumb draw. Many a time I have watched you shoot with the thumb draw, with arrow over the thumb. So I've tried it. The result is that I respect your ability to shoot with accuracy each way! BTW, I'm 75, and have been an archery enthusiast for about 65 of those years.
what ever works for you Tom, stick with it
I personally prefer Turkish composite horse bows over longbows as either way at the period in history where they were used they were becoming obsolete with the advent of better plate armor and crossbows were taking over so bows would become far less about armor penetration and more about distance however for the lightly armored groups who aren’t wearing as much plate a bow still had an effect but as I said plate armor was becoming far more prevalent so bows kind of took a backseat from their former glory as the supreme ranged weapon it still had its place though I’d say when it comes down it at this point it boils down preference and the pros and cons of the weapon Composite bows were better but were far more expensive and less durable and longbows were cheap and durable but less effective
The recurved bow is technically superior. The longbow is more reliable. Neither the crossbow or the most powerful conventional bows could penetrate late medievel steel armour, not even a 1000lb heavy crossbow. However, a longbowman could fire every 5 seconds. The perhaps 5000 archers at the Battle of Agincourt would have been firing up to 1000 arrows a second. Some would find their mark in gaps in the armour, the rest killed the horses and forced the French knights to fight on foot with their visors down.
English longbows > crossbows, but only with years of practice and conditioning.
@@robw7676 I watched Battle of Agincourt where Englishmen were far outnumbered by Frenchmen and Frenchmen had German Mercenaries too. The French and the Germans were heavily armored but they both got toasted by the English Long Bowmen. The rest is history, shows how much Archers can turn the tables in the battlefield.
@Illia S. Ooo, didn't know the detail of the battle. True that, superior strategy and tactics can outmaneuver even larger armies. But I'd personally think that Longbow would be more effective in the sense that you can shoot more arrows, run around and more versatile compared to crossbow. No doubt crossbows are easier to use, have longer distance, stronger penetration but it takes long time to pull the string,.
Whoever came up with the myth that crossbows penetrate armor deserves a kick in the balls. It has spread everywhere.
@@fanrik9583 yeah it got to the point where even early arquebes couldn't penetrate armor sometimes
very Interesting. In 1958 I had a makita short bow 34 lb pull but the laminate cracked after not much use.
Hi armin !😀
I'm a huge fan of longbows !!! In the prezent time , I'm shooting with a hazel piramid bow
( that I've built it myself) , 60lbs at 24" . Great speed , 150/170 fps ...and verry smooth shooting .
Since when has the word 'present' had a "Z" in the correct spelling? there hasn't been a spelling reform in the English language since 1895 [1895]
@@pluckyew297 Maybe Ion is writing in a second language. Try it, it's a little more difficult.
Ion, see you've spelled prezent correctly - the way it's pronounced. G-deal. Hope it finds a huge 'fallowing'.
Pluck-since seven months ago.
pluck Jew get a life
Ty teacher you teach me alot
Thanks well done
Nice now
Thanks for sharing 👍
Never thought about it but it's true what he said about the longbow still being a weapon when the string breaks in battle.
@James Wilkinson Archers usually had side arms, even if just a dagger, but I could imagine a scenario in which you're forced to use your bow if a string breaks and you've got no time to draw your weapon, or lost it...in the heat of battle you never know. And it has more reach than a dagger, also something to consider.
I like how despite your personal preference you choose to not "stack the deck" by only shooting light arrows out of the longbow. I see too many people who obfuscate the reality by only testing each type of bow on what they're good at. I personally like both types of bow, and will especially acknowledge that at low draw weights the longbow design can be quite inefficient.
He even handicapped the horse bow by only using Mediterranean release - those 3~5 extra inches of draw are where the magic happens. He also used a flatbow style longbow, far more efficient than a D-style longbow. He steel-manned the entire process in favour of the longbow and gave it a fair shot, and tbh the Tatar bow held its own, no sweat. Cool 👽
Hi Armin,
I own both the flat long bow and a horse bow from FD. After shooting both bows I enjoy the horse bow more. Less cumbersome and less vibration.
Flaxen Saxon
hello,, nice to see you, I'm a archer from indonesia
Gotcha !! Thanks
If I remember right the current longest range shots are still held with the Mongol style composite recurve bows.
@Cenk Tüneygök 897.66m Hungarian man named Mónus József with his own bow, can't say what design though.
thank you
Just a small point. The Bows used by British archers (especially Welsh) in war were 6'+ long, had a draw weight of 100 lbs+ and fired war arrows weighing 2 lbs or more. The forces involved were so great that the skeletons of these professional archers were heavily distorted by the forces and musculature they developed. Just in case anyone confuses toy 'longbows' with what made history in places like Agincourt;-)
we figured that already out. still LONGBOw is a definition in competitions, not only an english longbow with hundreds of pounds. And no worries, the ancient horsebows had the same poundage
I grew up with long bows and recurve bows, in the past few years I've gained interest in the Asian form of archery, I bought a couple horses bows one is a 60lb manchue and a different style of horse bow that is 45lb bow which is the same lb draw as my Bear recurve but both bows shoot very differently, do you have any suggestions on things I can do to help me adjust to how horse bows function as there shot, or is continuously shooting the only way?
nice job thx
I like how you have your preferences, but you appreciate all bows. Never seen you really say anything bad about a bow. A positive attitude always.
When I bow is crap you will not see a review of it. On the other side I always say what I like and don't like about the bows
@@ArminHirmer Yes, you say what you like about it, and what you don't. But you say it in a respectful manor. That's what I like about your reviews. Keep doing what you're doing 😊
Love the background an music
Which arrows would be the best for it ,at the 50 pound Mongolian bowTennessee prep or USA thank you
Now try that with a true medieval long bow of 140 -160 lb with a 33 inch draw and lets see what the difference its. I'm not sure what the re-curve would be for that era but either way it would be interesting to see the results. Thanks for sharing. Best Wishes n Blessings. Keith Noneya
no worries, the reflex bows had the same draw weight and you end up with the same result. it's physics
Yeah, 30 lb draw weight is a child’s bow. I’d like to see period correct comparisons between various bows throughout history of the typical draw weight for that style of war bow
Depends. There are examples of 166lbs mongolia horse bows, 196lbs Edo period yumi, and korean horsebows that go further distances than a longbow, 82lbs manchu bows out performing a 128lbs yew longbow with the same arrows, ect.
What awesome control and form. Makes me want to shoot
TY TY TY THANKS I LIKED AND SUBSCRIBED :)
Great video Armin :) Thanks for sharing!
I always preferred eastern style curved bows because of his power and am sure that these can outperform english long bow in every aspect. Just imagine that during the 100y war the french would have use these curved bows...am pretty sure currently the main language would be the french on british islands :)
I think the reason why composite bows werent used in western europe is cause of the damp weather, the bows could come apart. The composite bow has been around since ancient egyptian times, so there must be a reason why it wasent used in western europe. But there is also evidence that longbows had curves that flexed away, giving it something similar to a curved bow. There is also the wood that's used, Yew, yew is naturally springy. And if the Longbow is better than the composite bow at shooting heavy arrows, then they would be superior in the hundred years war, as they used heavy arrows to have the best effect against armor.
It depends on the grand strategy of the military Longbows are much cheaper than compared to eastern style composite bows requiring just wood also as the first comment says it was damp so the composite bows of Mongolia would be useless in the dampness of France and the Uk
Both awesome bows! What horsebow were you using in this video? Sadly, I didnt unterstand its name at the beginning.
Also, I'm planning to buy a budged horsebow for around 100 euros. What is your favorite low budget horse bow (maybe a hard question to answer :)) out of the Crimean Tartar, or Mongol bow from alibow and the scythian bow from Flagella Dei (or other bows im not aware of)?
Flagella Dei will be fine if you choose a laminated bow for that price. or you can go with a fibreglass bow from Alibow
AH..Good video man! Unfortunately my laptop seems to feel that my sense of hearing has improved. NOT! I could just barely hear you. It's my understanding that the Turkish recurve held the distance record until the 1970s. You ever do a comparison using one?
William Emerson sí sí 👍👍👍🙌🙌☝☝
I've got a question. I'm currently making myself a string jig to make strings. Actually, two questions! 1. How do you measure bow length on scythian or even mongolian horesebows that are c shaped when in rest? is it still limb end to limb end or do I rest the measuring tape on the top of the C to catch all of the length? 2. could you make a video on various strings and recommended types of loops, dacrons etc for various bows? I'm mainly interested in horsebows or trad recurves, fibreglass ones. how to measure how many loops of what string to what bow :) Thank you, i've been binging your videos for a while now and my notebook of things you inspired me to try is getting very full! :D
I used to have a longbow but always wore an arm guard.
The longbow/flatbow, that You are using for comparison is really subpar with his thick and broad outer limbs, hence the vibration and relatively slow speed.
The best limb designs toward Holmegaard or Andaman bows should outspeed every recurve from same materials. Vibration is also reduced.
The horse bow, on the other hand seems to be at least average, if not even above average, not price wise (I don't know it) but regarding bow design.
So, when we leave bow profiles aside (and we can do that, because latest findings in bow design show, that limb mass placement is even more important; be it what regards behaviour or the speed of the bow), we have one "high gear" bow, with relatively narrow, light outer limbs, and because shorter, it has reduced limb mass further-tatar bow,
and the other, which is just the opposite, "low gear bow"; heavy, thick and broad outer limbs; but longer, and here it gains some speed back despite more limb mass.
These two bow categories (in the sense of limb mass placement, not profile, You can test the two longbows, or horse bows, and get the similar results), react predictable in the way it is showed in your test:
High gear bows favor ever lighter arrows to some limit, until the arrow weight doesn't get to similar to "dry firing" the bow, they are fast from beginning, but they can not move heavier arrows as fast, like it's not possible to start a car uphil in a fifth gear.
Low gear bows start relatively slow, but can move heavier arrows relatively faster, because heavy arrow drains more energy from such a limb, this is showed also in less handshock with heavier arrows. The limit of low gear bow is his inital and end speed; lighter arrows are not predictably faster because of that, and they leave much remained energy in the limbs.
So, my sole objection to this highly interesting video would be: when we are comparing bow categories/designs in general sense, lets take at least averagely effective designs of both varieties, and than make the comparison.
For those that don't know this, and still think, that recurves are faster:
When properly designed, in the sense of limb mass placement and forward profile of the bow, the flatbow is the fastest bow.
I myself have two bows, classic flatbow/longbow, 68", very narrow trapezoid limbs, even narrower outer limbs, light deflex reflex, and one more to hybrid style, heavier riser, 66", extreme deflex reflex, but the string doesn't touch the limb at all. Limbs also very light outer limbs.
I have yet to meet a recurve of any kind, of same poundage, and arrow weight per pound, which is faster.
The last volume of bowyers bible, in the chapter "Bow design and performance revisited", subtitle "Straightbow versus recurve", gives profound explanation of that. Also on other places in the same volume.
My comment is really not meant to be an attack of any kind; more a further explanation for those that are interested, and a suggestion for subsequent videos?
I enjoyed this video all the same immensely; from these two, my vote goes to horse bow also.
I like this channel very much, and I respect and enjoy a wealth of free knowledge in the areas of traditional shooting and bows, which are less familiar to me.
Greetings and best wishes to You, Armin!
You apparently don't understand bow mechanics well. Eastern bow type (horse bow) is far superior to longbows for many reasons if criteria is arrow speed and relation of energy stored/transferred to arrow, also shooting experience and practicality.
It is ridiculous to think straight wooden stick (like an English longbow) could match a bow which is materially and structurally in a much higher class. Almost same as to say compound bow isn't more efficient than a traditional bow.
Flatbow/longbow isn't most efficient traditional bow, no matter how it is designed. LOL
@@bekanav
You didn't understand and read my comment well. There are three very important words in it:
"from same materials".
That means regarding to structure (wood, or other materials), and weight of this material(s), that is, how much the certain limb mass is, and where this weight is placed on the limb.
In other words: comparisons between historical composite recurves, and longbows, or flatbows are irrelevant, because there are three main materials in composite: horn, wood and sinew. These materials also have different inertia and elasticity. It is also possible, that the limbs are also lighter, by the same draw weight, and because of that, even faster.
So, such a recurve can be faster, and often was, than straight bow, but not always.
So, you are right in this regard. But such a bow is not better/faster, because it is recurve, or, because it has such a side profile, but because of the difference in materials, elasticity and inertia.
If it has heavy, big syahs, than often not, because heavy outer limbs counter other benefits like side profile and materials properties so much, that often, good made straight bow (Andaman or Holmegaard design, or pyramid bow) outspeeds recurves in the same draw weight.
We are speaking of a mass principle, or forward profile of the bow. More exact: light, and narrow outer limbs.
Modern laminated bows, which we are comparing, have more or less similar materials: wood and carbon/fiberglass sometimes. It seemed to me, that Armin made comparison of two such bows.
In such a case it is proven, with chronographs and much testing, that recurves can not compete, because they have heavier outer limbs, which are needed because of limb stability and wood strain in the recurve region. But this slows the bow.
The mass principle, even that it was defined from very old bow designs, is again understood in it's full a few years back. Modern traditional bowyers are making a great use of it, and testing that they make, confirm this results. Here on YT, some of the big names also.
Before You post stupid insults here, do Your homework, and read some more.
That recurves are the fastest and most effective bows, is more or less a busted myth nowadays. They are beautiful bows for some, but like it or not, this is the truth, found out between many world bowyers.
Also, I never mentioned english longbow.
As for practicality and shooting experience: various bows were meant to be used in various situations and environments. Ancient recurve in damp conditions of England would be unusable.
ALL tradidional designs have it's merits and beauty in various environments and purposes. Even English longbow with it's stability and ease of construction.
How effective it was, is demonstrated in history.
@@AnimaTriste Same materials LOL. Unfortunately it is impossible to make eastern bow from yew. But it would be possible to make longbow/flatbow from horn and sinew etc and it would suck compared to recurve bow.
Mass principle is only a part which is essential to make a bow efficient, you really think that is all?
For example siyahs are quite light weight structures. I guess you don't understand why they have been developed - most bowyers don't understand them at all. Longbow which bends all the way from the middle is much inferior by its "mass principle" even if siyahs are rigid and don't restore energy at all.
I've designed many bows including compounds which are by far most complex bows and which need some physical understanding. Eastern recurves are also very highly developed bows. Longbows are essentially long wooden sticks, I use to made and shoot them when I was about 10 years old.
And don't worry I've done my homework and I've read most of the literature of this subject. And even more, I have understood what in it is correct and what is stupid beliefs. Quite a lot BS there.
BTW funny this guy who makes these videos seems to have quite unclear understanding how draw length and weight affect to arrow speed. But I'm not surprised, many bowyers are not scientifically oriented but more like some modern day Robin Hoods. LOL
@@bekanav
Obviously Your point here is to insult everybody, not just me.
Sorry that I thought otherwise.
To descend to your level, I'll write:
LOL, LOL, LOL. The other crap, that You wrote about it, I'll leave out. So You can feel better.
But You are more than right: mass principle is just one of the factors of a good bow. Here we agree.
Where we don't is: there are proofs, documented, tested, which You seem to neglect. Scientific proofs.
But I digress: the Earth is flat. This should comfort You. And the fact, that this are the last words, that I write to You.
@@AnimaTriste I'm afraid your "proofs" are just BS. It is just a fact that eastern type bow stores more energy with same draw weight because its limbs are much more stressed, it has much higher pre-tension, it has lever-acting tips of limbs (siyahs), limbs are of optimized composite structure, sinew and bone are much superior limb materials to any wood, horse bow is shorter and lighter in weight still having very long draw etc. etc.
I don't know what this long bow fan cult is but they make themselves fools claiming long wooden sticks are equal or even better than hundreds or thousands of years developed high tech bows. They are not, LOL
thanks
Interesting, would like to see a test with a D shaped self bow and a fast Laminate Horse Bow, both 50lb at 28"
i can never get used to how close your forearm is to the string with the longbow. it makes me nervous
Interesting video! What do think is the optimal (or minimal/maximal) arrow length for each bow in your opinion?
for me always the max draw of the bow and maybe one inch more, just in case
If your ever considering hunting. Arrows should be an appropriate lenth to keep a hunting head well away from your hand at full draw..
03:13 i was actually expecting you to shoot it with thumb release while using the longbow... but it CAN be done right? theoratically? or is there anything to consider not to?
i will appriciate the answer, thanks before!
Of course you can shoot a long bow with thumb :) quite fun
Merci
Ive made a bunch of longbows and I just want to say longbows are delicate when it comes to vibration and it all comes down to mass and energy transfer. all that extra wood absorbing all the energy from the string it all goes into your hand rather than the arrow, making the bow shorter and removing the bulk from the handle will greatly reduce vibration
That is not true. Vibration is based on the woods used and how they were made. I have shot long bows and they had no vibrations at all. They were also made back in the 70's.
@@bobmorton4633 nope.... there are other factors but mass and energy transfer are the main 2.... how old the bow is has nothing to do with it, there are bows made now that totally suck along with bows made 2000 years ago which are incredible...
Excellent comparison! what are your targets made of?
sacks filled with plastic nets
That's a ~ 22% increase in kinetic energy for the lightest arrow. That's actually a significant effect.
I am from Denmark and we have some of the world's best archers with compound bow. So of course I have a compound bow!
Archery is a skill the world will never forget no matter how techie we get, Long Bow, Horse Bow, Compound Bow.. Denmark has always been truly skilled with the Bow, I'm happy it has remained strong there, we all learn stronger skills when we pay attention to the best.
I laughed when you realized you put the arrow on the wrong side 😂😂
me too
Fun and interesting comparison. I have shot both and agree that it depends on the scenario. Historically, if I were a foot soldier or in wet terrain, I would take a longbow simply for ease of maintenance and the fact that most horsebows were made of composite materials, and had glue that required constant upkeep and was sensitive to moisture.
As an aside, to reduce the vibration in the longbow, I would look at adjusting the brace height required for the bow. Brace height is the distance from the bow to the string at the point where you hold the bow and can vary widely from bow to bow. I had a huge problem with vibration in my longbow for years and it sounded much like the bow in the video. A bowyer pointed out that my brace height was off, and I had no clue what he was talking about. After correcting the brace height, the vibration (and noise) almost completely disappeared, arrows were less apt to fishtail (wiggle back and forth in flight), and I my draw weight increased from 45 pounds to 50 pounds.
A general rule of thumb is that a 6 foot (1.82 meter) longbow should have a brace height of about 6 inches (15.24 cm), but again, this varies depending on the make and model of the bow, as well as the habits of the archer, so it takes trial and error to get it just right.
Samuel Zuleger it’s true! Recently I’d discover it by chance.
Long time no see
I was wonder if you could do a video on where you get your arrows from :) I still have trouble finding good arrows consistently and always trying different kinds
itsSaucey wood or carbon?
my carbon arrows I get from bearpaw and I use Goldtip Traditional. Wood shafts from bearpaw, wood arrows from Sarmat Archery and Alibow. Bamboo from Sarmat
the horse bow just looks so much easier and practical to handle and carry as a ranged weapon. Makes you think in terms of survival all the variables you need to consider when you are hunting/in battle and how your gear can affect your ability to effectively move and adapt as the situation unfolds. A big heavy longbow is ideal as long as you have hard cover you don't need to move from, where your food is rationed to you behind castle walls.
But out on the plains, or deep in the forests, a lightweight bow that can be carried easily with one hand, minimize your silhouette, but still provide lethal force is everything you could ask for in what is supposed to be a cheap weapon that you can make with your immediate environment. These bows are awesome either way
My dad got himself a bow recently, when i asked him how many pounds it was he responded by telling me the price (pounds £ we live in the UK). So then i had to explain to them that the draw weight of a bow is measured in pounds. Really i should have just asked what's the draw weight on it to save the confusion. He got himself one at 50 Ibs, i'm thinking maybe that's a bit much for a beginner, but he's a strong guy though. I've not tried it out yet but i'm a slender guy and no where near as strong as my Dad, so i think my shoulders, arms and wrists will get tired pretty fast as i'm also a beginner and not in the habit of using all the archery related muscles I just happen to know more of the theory than the practical.
Horsebow use only with a thumb's ring. Otherwise, there is not enough tension (for long heavy weigt arrows) and energy to completely release the kinetic energy of the limbs.
Seems like little has changed. Cavalry Carbines versus Infantry Rifles had similar comparisons in performance up through World War I. In World War II, it was the difference between early intermediate cartridge weapons (STG-44, M1 Carbine) and their full size rifle counterparts (Kar98k and M1 Garand). Through the Cold War, it's Assault Rifles versus Battle Rifles, and now, Assault Rifles and Assault Carbines versus Personal Defense Weapons. This is truly a fascinating look at the "arms parity" between "mobile forces" and "line forces" that shows, even going back to archery, how and where smaller and lighter weapons are best fielded, versus heavier ones - that the struggle for the "one longarm to rule them all" Goldilocks weapon system has been going on for.. what.. a thousand-plus years?
people like to compare, what can we do :D
@@ArminHirmer Truly a fascinating demonstration, though. Thank you for putting it on the Internet. I've liked Archery since I was a kid. One of my instructors once said that my natural tendency with a bow (my "style" or whatever you want to call it) reminded him more of what a medieval foot archer would do. Ever since then, Archery has interested me.
Can u put beaver balls(silencers) on the long bow to deaden vibrations?
Here is a look at the momentum and kinetic energy transferred to the arrows. All units are Hirmer units, and are arranged from left to right, as in the table shown on the video.
Horse bow momentum 1650 - - - - - -2048 - - - - - 2457
Horse bow kinetic energy: 247500- - - -262144 - - - 287469
Long bow momentum: 1496 - - - - - - 2000 - - - - - 2436
Long bow kinetic energy 203456 - - - -250000 - - - 282576
Conclusion. In both cases, the heavier the arrow, the more momentum and kinetic energy is transferred to it. Overall, the horse bow transferred more momentum and energy to the arrow, making it the more lethal of the two weapons.
Great experiment. Great data!
As an archery old-timer: Longbows are more stable, Turkish-style recurves have more cast (speed ) due to their sharply curved limb giving a 'cam action' to augment the limb, so they have more speed & distance, more touchy on accuracy. There are trade-offs on everything. Longbow = accuracy & penetration, recurve = speed & distance. Yes, longbows handle heavier arrows, recurves do better w/lighter ones. The longbow in this video is actually a reflexed longbow, not true straight-end longbow, just a touch less stable.
Exactly what I was thinking.
bow tension 100 pounds @
Morning measurements of the bowstring draw on the 85 cm boom showed 101 lbs. (46 kg) and I did not hear any crackling or even rustling ..
I've wanted to do this for a long time. I did it.
Bow for Applied Experimental History, the guesses and hypotheses associated with the history of the bow are tested using test methods. Arrow flight range, combat accuracy, initial and final arrow speed, penetration force of various materials, storage conditions, practical application, ease of use and much, muc
With the Japanese long bow you have much less vibration because the grip is down lower on the bow. It's at a vibrational node, so it's less vibration at the grip.
Of course
interesting. i always felt the horse bow was faster but as the war comes on and the weight goes up the heavy shootin longbow
comes into it's own. personally i enjoy both. personally i find the longbow has less hand shock than my horse bow but the extra speed of the horse bow comes in handy out to about 35 yds. one day play mongol- next day play agincourt. hahaha. thank yew have fun gare
john son if they are self bows, the long is stronger every time. Manchu bow strength comes from the composite, the combination of materials. Those wouldn’t have done well in the wet of Agincourt. Even the Manchurian archers would use a wooden longbow in those conditions.
john son obviously it doesn’t just fall apart like it drank from the wrong grail, but it affects the performance. And a long battle in those conditions with those 100+ lb draw weights may cause it to fail. Battles in West Europe were wet, muddy messes. But better to have either bow than an early musket.
@john son Modern methods being superior is a no brainer. Obviously there are wet tropic regions in Asia, but horses are useless in rainforests, they were gained prominence by use in deserts and mountains by nomads. Of course there are ways you can protect it, but even so they would avoid using them in undesirable conditions if they could. I've read somewhere that they had mulberry bows to use if they were in adverse conditions.
There's little doubt that the composite manages to get similar output while being smaller, and perhaps that makes it universally superior, but as the expert in the video says, it's down to personal preference. There is also the fact that a longbow is considerably easier to make, and if one had to make one to survive stranded in the wilderness and wasn't an experienced East Asian Bowyer, the longbow would be a safer bet.
I like longbows and recurve bows, the ones I don't like are compound bows, I mostly chimed in here because it was a response to Gary, and that dude is cool af. Though as the other guy says, Gare probably doesn't care, and I should have left it alone.
@john son Fanboys are problems wherever you go. I had the same instinct, I've seen Horsebow fanboys say longbows are stupid and there is no reason ever to use one, which is just asinine. Like you said, not a whole lot of reason beyond hobby to use any bow, but both have reasons within for one to use them. Horsebows may match the power of a longbow while taking up less room, but there's also the cultural significance it holds in the UK, and for those descended from it (I'm 3/4), and of course Horsebows are historically/culturally significant all over Asia, as well as Greece, Hungary, etc. There's also of course appreciation of the design, and the method that goes into crafting them. The English Bowyer just cut a chunk out of a Yew tree and the thing was nearly halfway there.
The glue's flaws are greatly exaggerated, but I'm overprotective of my favorite things, I'd probably worry about it lol.
I suppose the Hungarian ones are kind of a hybrid...
I'm having an issue with my horsebow. I'm using Mediterranean technique and find my arrows rubbing against my bow. The bow handle has a dark leather wrap and can tell it runs as the fletching is eating away at the leather. Is there a follow-through technique I'm missing?
that will always happen, maybe with a different spine it can get a bit less
Your arrows aren't exactly matching your bow, draw length & your individual shooting style. The spine/arrow length is important here, as Armin said & selecting the correct arrows to start with will help( Good specialised archery shops will help you do that if you can afford it), but if you want to tweek the arrows you have you could try fitting lighter or heavier points(just the next size up or down), larger or smaller fletches (plastic vanes are many times heavier than feathers), or heavier/lighter(or self cut if it's wood arrows) . That may throw your point of aim off though, which may be managable. Alternatively fit a hard arrow pass to where the arrows mark the handle, but make sure it's completely flush with the leather, so wear is reduced. The wear is usually mainly cosmetic. The cheapest solution would be accept the wear & replace the handle leather when it gets too bad.
Interesting ! I have a Mongolian horse bow 30 #, and I'm kinda scared of it, my fellow shooters say that I am pushing the bow and the wood arrows dont come off straight like they do on my recurve bows, apparently I shoot recurve better! Any advice ?
hard to say without seeing you shooting. I guess your release is not crisp and clear enough or the spine does not work with the bow. can have many reasons
I like long bows but they do seam to have more hand shock. Another great video keep them coming. I really like the bodnik bows you have done videos on thank you. By the way do you sell the bows.
thanks for watching. And yes I sell all these bows
Are you sure you are using the right arrows for longbow?Different bows different arrows.
This guys is lit
Not a true longbow but a slightly recurved flatbow, however this video is relevant
Tartempion - not the best horsebow too - indo-persian, mongol and crimean tatar were fare better, this one is early 10 century model.
@Abu Troll al cockroachistan as long as the D shaped longbow doesn't have recurved tips than maybe but most longbows are more efficient compared to flatbows but hardly enough to compare them.
@Abu Troll al cockroachistan no lmao native tribes had the flatbow long before they came into contact with the whites. The only reason why the flatbow is made in the Americas and the yew longbow in Europe is because of wood. Osage orange is not as strong or flexible as yew which is why the osage orange bow had to be flattened to take that pressure because its different than yew.
daylon boender they did have flatbows in europe too before the famed english longbow
Merci pour cette belle et instructive vidéo. Je suis un papy de 74 ans
et je tirais à l'arc à l'age de è ans. A la fête foraine de Pigale de
Paris. Je vais essayez de me fabriquer un arc ancien avec corne, fibre
de tendon etc. Je suis artiste, sculpteur, inventeur. Une expérience
interessante pour moi. Question: il y a bien 20 ans dans une boutique
d'antiquaire, j'ai acheté un petit arc d'indiens des iles. ?? cela me
semblait étres un piège pour touriste. Mais j'ai acheté car il y avait
une chose qui m'a beaucoup surpris. Il y avait une sorte de petit
bouton avec un trou qui était fixé dans la corde de l'arc. Une sorte de
visière qui a pour but d'augmenter la vision. C'est un principe qui est
bien connue. Mais dans le milieu et grande famille du tir à l'arc, je
n'ai jamais entendu parlé de ce truc de visé ? Je connais la sucette
pour la bouche. Si vous avez des informations ?Merci. Patrick Dupré:
Montpellier.
Im going to buy one....😄
Excellent video! One question. would the arrow speed of the horse bow be increased by the speed of the horse? Ex. if the horse is moving at 30 mph, & the arrow is being shot in the forward direction, it seems like the arrow speed would be faster by 30 mph. Penetration force would definitely increase & even surpass the long bow. Considering all other dynamics of shooting from horse back, it is amazing how skilled they were in battle shooting in all directions!
haha good thought. I guess the arrow is already travelling with this speed, so of course it will add up to the overall speed. great question
One thing about long bows is that they are less sensitive to let off string let off twist due to the strength of the limbs.
twist off? never seen a strung bowstring go anywhere but stay on the bow, if your string nocks are damaged maybe.
A graceful weapon if ever there was one.