Great to see all the thinking behind it in real time. I imagine writing the melody and bass line on the piano could be one way to start writing for quartet and then add the middle parts.
This quartet library sounds really great here! I like how this has a more "unified" string quartet placed sound, rather than the typical solo string library sound.
Thanks for the video, Spitfire and Oliver! I’d love to see a series dedicated to you guys’ desk setups and what brought you to build out and acquire the gear you use.
LOL, Hilarious reading all the snarky comments. what a bunch of snobs and trolls. You go Oliver. I really enjoyed what you did here. I hope you get paid well for this. Poetic justice...
i love this ! i hear a lot of potiential there. We have to bring back the old era. Its just a challange to compose (influenced by old music) like this. I also compose filmmusic but this is for me kinda the music i want to compose and bring somehow back in classic. Pls do more of composing in classical, romantic etc. style !
My problem with string quartets is understanding the role of each instrument. I come from a rock/metal guitarist background. So when writing music I've always seen it as "rhythm guitar" melody, "lead guitar" for harmony, "bass guitar" for foundational support. The hook being sometimes on rhythm and sometimes on lead. (I know I'm simplifying it, but I just think of them that way in broad strokes, I mean I didn't even mention lead guitar solos) So when I try writing for string quartet, I wind up treating the two violins like rhythm and lead guitar, one focused on melody, the other on harmony. And I treat cello like a bass guitar, providing the foundation. But I never know what to do with the viola. All I can think is switching the melody to the viola and having both violins on harmony. Kinda like an Iron Maiden style dueling leads.
Inglorious B***ards. Tea party environment. Love the cheerful mood of the music. Love the sound of Sacconi, that's going on my wishlist for a purchase later in the year. I've not heard a better sample library quartet in all the years I've been looking for the realistic sounds.
Nice to see a score make an appearance. Is there anyway you can rewire a notation program to logic so we can see the dots on the lines. I find looking at a piano roll view difficult to really read what is going on in the relationship between notes. The piece sounded fine and keeps within the brief you were given - good work. Thanks for the tutorial.
I'm curious to know why the producer of the scene wanted you to compose something that sounded like Haydn instead of actually using a Haydn string quartet? Mechanical licensing? Budget? Preference? These things always confuse me about the film scoring industry.
Good question Joshua - it was for an ad, so maybe budget or just the fact that itd be harder to edit for them (in the ad there was a sudden cut in the piece and then it needed to follow a little what happened on the screen. I hope I can share it with you so you can see what I mean). Best, O
Gracias, Oliver... this is quite helpful as I'm slowly delving into quartet writing. All of the counterpoint movement keeps this sophisticated despite the simple progression(s)... and simple is always better, imho. After reading through the comments, I had no idea how many armchair composers there were on YT! Or maybe just an armada fresh off the boat, lol. Sounds great Oliver.
We all should definitely write this kind of music with theory in mind! I am doing lots if exercises in voicing and I hear that in this particular piece the melody and variations and counter melodies are fine, but the bass line may be more complex, more inversions of t, s, sii, d7, tvi, harmonic major
Thanks for creating this video. I'm curious if you have written for a cello quartet before and have any thoughts regarding that textural landscape for composing? I'm at the early stages of experimenting with potential themes for a short film on King Arthur and was thinking of having a traditional quartet sound, but now am leaning towards a cello quartet.
Great work, Oliver - and thanks for the analysis and explication. My question is very basic: Does each of the tracks represent an individual instance of the Sacconi library, and Kontakt? Or is each track a separate output in a multi-output setup of a single instance of Kontakt? Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks again, and send more :-)
Yes it is. You have mainly 8 instruments patches. One for each instrument with a "playable" version which is all the "true legato" version. And for each instrument "different articulation" patch. As you can see where he swithces for a triller from the playable to articulation 13.47. And all in all you have this "Ensemble patch which is really good for "Ending chords with the same articulation. The lib is really good, but finally a real Quartett ist sth different. But really impressing for quick short layouts!!
You are of course right there and thank you for pointing this out. F7 is a secondary dominant chord. It is the dominant to Bbmaj7 (which is the subdominant chord of Cmaj7). O
How do you come up with the composition? Do you sketch it out and then orchestrate it or do you do the whole orchestration at once. Also how do you come up with the melodies and the chords to use? I never understood this.
Hello Oliver, I am curious how you have connected the channels. I see that you have ensemble on top and the different strings on the following channels. I also see that all instruments have midi channel 1? On the channel info for each channel it says "all" on the midi ch. Do all channels have a separate Kontakt started up? My biggest question here is; How to make the setup you are using? I also wanna be able to use spiccato, long and pizzicato artikulations on separate channels. Help, please! Regards, Jerry
Thank you Marco. Because for this brief the sound of the sacconi quartet was perfect, these guys are playing together as aa grouo regularly and I feel you can hear that when programming and writing with the library. The sound for this setting needed to be smaller and more traditional classical. The solo strings are great in a larger set up and are sounding a touch more modern. I hope this helps to understand my choice there. Thank you for watching. O
Nice Piece! Regarding the pre-ending harmony problem: I'd suggest to change the Eb to an E natural on the second beat in bar 32... I get your point of using the Eb there, but I think it's just not enough time for the ear to change to the key of F afterwards.The E natural would create some sort of Bb Lydian Sound which feels already kinda "F majorish" = easier to get "home" (Bb Lyd. - C7 - F maj) Would love to hear how you changed it though :)
Hi Pablo. Great input thank you. Have a listen to the piece on soundcloud, I feel ive managed through mixing to make it work, it sits better now. But I will try out your idea of course, makes a lot of sense! Ill get back to you. Best, O
I agree with Ricky! I dont usually write with theory in mind, but when it comes to 'immitating' someone for a media project, it is quite advantageous knowing about it. Best, O
Yes, all very good and valid inputs here! Sacconi offers a specific quartet sound and is designed for this more traditional set up. I have to say I love the flaut and harmonic patches on there too. As mentioned by others, solo strings sound bigger and are more for solo situations withing an orchestral set up. Best, O
@@KevinToine It's only an issue if you want the voices to sound separate and independent. Parallel octaves/fifths make the voices sound like they're one voice, especially in small ensembles. It's not an arbitrary rule or fashion, it's just a technique that you can bear in mind to create a particular effect
you can make a video showing how to go from the score to the daw already transformed into midi ,,, and the articulation changes, for a string quartet ... how do you work this ... thanks in advance
While writing in MIDI (strings, woods, brass) continuous lines like these are usually done with legato patches. Why overlap? Cuz these patches also contain recorded audio of “transitions.” Like when changing from one note to the next, whether that change in note was due to re-bowing or just by changing finger, etc. thereby providing a feeling of realism which wouldn’t otherwise be possible. When the piece needs to be put in front of the real orchestra to play, the overlapping is definitely removed and notes truncated properly. Hope this helps.
I notice you overlap your notes. I used to do this with Logic samples, would you advise this universally or is there a reason to do it for this piece or library in particular? Thanks.
These ate legato patches, so each note needs to be connected to trigger the legato transition. So it will sound like one note to another (you won't hear the overlap note). If it was a longs patch, you wouldn't really overlap them.
You can only do so much with samples versus a real string quartet. For the application the piece was used for its fantastic, it’s not a piece written to be performed in concert it’s written to be underscore
Thanks for posting, it's a good introduction to creating a demo. However, it is somewhat disappointing how unexpressive and strident those strings samples sound.
Strings sound fake, the music style isn't understood and there are some mistakes in the Haydn score shown at the beginning. Seriously what's the point ?
Tu as raison Mathieu! N'étant absolument pas un spécialiste de la chose, j'ai quand même du mal à comprendre cette vidéo qui ne donne pas du tout envie d'acheter une telle librairie.. En revanche réécouter de vrais quatuors oui! Spitfire nous a habitué à mieux..
Nice try! But I think it is your first time you attempt to write a quartet in this style:) The sound of the quartet was not nice balanced (nothing to do with your composition). The live session will sound a lot better. One question... is Dorico involved in this project ?
nice try, just being classically educated string player i hear A LOT of basic voice leading errors. i guess too much education in nowadays is a curse :D
Even with all that great work. .. It still doesn't sound like a real quartet... I think it's impossible to get the real thing without musicians. Especially the violin. Always has that noticeably fake rendition :(
I know nothing about music. Not sure how I got here! Watched the whole thing & loved it! Fascinating.
Great to see all the thinking behind it in real time. I imagine writing the melody and bass line on the piano could be one way to start writing for quartet and then add the middle parts.
This quartet library sounds really great here! I like how this has a more "unified" string quartet placed sound, rather than the typical solo string library sound.
I am a violinist and an aspiring composer. This video was incredibly helpful. Thank you!
Brilliant arrangement, harmony and counterpoint !!!
Great video Oliver thanks for taking the time to share your process with us...
Thanks Oliver, great piece, really informative and this library sounds so well!
Very tastefully arranged, Oliver.
I need to write a string quartet, thanks for this, it was very beneficial
Thanks Oliver, this is really useful. This kind of thing is very new to me and I'd not considered studying sheet music before composition!
Nice mic.
I use the origin daily.
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for the video, Spitfire and Oliver! I’d love to see a series dedicated to you guys’ desk setups and what brought you to build out and acquire the gear you use.
Just found the home studio vids lol thanks!
Any questions please let me know Christopher. Thanks for watching, O
Great job delivering what was asked of you...thx for the vid post.
This is incredible! Thank you! Your work here is a doorway into learning more about counter point so thank you!
This is a great tool to sketch then once this is ready, have real players play it and this piece will sound great.
LOL, Hilarious reading all the snarky comments. what a bunch of snobs and trolls. You go Oliver. I really enjoyed what you did here. I hope you get paid well for this. Poetic justice...
Thank you for sharing this with us and explaining it so well...
i love this ! i hear a lot of potiential there. We have to bring back the old era. Its just a challange to compose (influenced by old music) like this. I also compose filmmusic but this is for me kinda the music i want to compose and bring somehow back in classic. Pls do more of composing in classical, romantic etc. style !
03:57 Don't know why but this part is sooooo awesome
My problem with string quartets is understanding the role of each instrument. I come from a rock/metal guitarist background. So when writing music I've always seen it as "rhythm guitar" melody, "lead guitar" for harmony, "bass guitar" for foundational support. The hook being sometimes on rhythm and sometimes on lead. (I know I'm simplifying it, but I just think of them that way in broad strokes, I mean I didn't even mention lead guitar solos)
So when I try writing for string quartet, I wind up treating the two violins like rhythm and lead guitar, one focused on melody, the other on harmony. And I treat cello like a bass guitar, providing the foundation. But I never know what to do with the viola. All I can think is switching the melody to the viola and having both violins on harmony. Kinda like an Iron Maiden style dueling leads.
Inglorious B***ards. Tea party environment. Love the cheerful mood of the music. Love the sound of Sacconi, that's going on my wishlist for a purchase later in the year. I've not heard a better sample library quartet in all the years I've been looking for the realistic sounds.
🙏 🙏 thank you so much! please do more like this
Nice to see a score make an appearance. Is there anyway you can rewire a notation program to logic so we can see the dots on the lines. I find looking at a piano roll view difficult to really read what is going on in the relationship between notes. The piece sounded fine and keeps within the brief you were given - good work. Thanks for the tutorial.
Thank you for the kind words, I will keep it in mind for future tutorials. Might be able to upload my score for this.... Best, O
I'm curious to know why the producer of the scene wanted you to compose something that sounded like Haydn instead of actually using a Haydn string quartet? Mechanical licensing? Budget? Preference? These things always confuse me about the film scoring industry.
i feel like it might be an advert rather than a film scene, though i dont know if that changes anything
I was wondering that as well (not complaining of course!) since all that stuff is public domain now.
Good question Joshua - it was for an ad, so maybe budget or just the fact that itd be harder to edit for them (in the ad there was a sudden cut in the piece and then it needed to follow a little what happened on the screen. I hope I can share it with you so you can see what I mean). Best, O
Damn Oliver, this is so brilliant.
Gracias, Oliver... this is quite helpful as I'm slowly delving into quartet writing. All of the counterpoint movement keeps this sophisticated despite the simple progression(s)... and simple is always better, imho. After reading through the comments, I had no idea how many armchair composers there were on YT! Or maybe just an armada fresh off the boat, lol. Sounds great Oliver.
We all should definitely write this kind of music with theory in mind! I am doing lots if exercises in voicing and I hear that in this particular piece the melody and variations and counter melodies are fine, but the bass line may be more complex, more inversions of t, s, sii, d7, tvi, harmonic major
lovely Haydn
Would you ever be able to show us how you eq the instruments for mixing? Independent, instruments eq, groups eq, etc...
Absolutely Frank, ill keep it in mind for future tutorials. O
@@OliverPatriceWeder Yes! What Frank said! It would be so helpful to know how you choose to eq and mix the instruments. Great piece!
I'd like you to copy that across to the solo strings and compare them, it's a far more modern library
Andrew Skipper agreed, I used solo strings on a Haydn mock-up and it worked great.
Great idea Andrew
Woaah wow wow wow this is nice
Great effort , slightly plastic ?
Yeah, I heard that too
Thanks for creating this video. I'm curious if you have written for a cello quartet before and have any thoughts regarding that textural landscape for composing? I'm at the early stages of experimenting with potential themes for a short film on King Arthur and was thinking of having a traditional quartet sound, but now am leaning towards a cello quartet.
Great work, Oliver - and thanks for the analysis and explication.
My question is very basic: Does each of the tracks represent an individual instance of the Sacconi library, and Kontakt? Or is each track a separate output in a multi-output setup of a single instance of Kontakt? Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks again, and send more :-)
Yes it is. You have mainly 8 instruments patches. One for each instrument with a "playable" version which is all the "true legato" version. And for each instrument "different articulation" patch. As you can see where he swithces for a triller from the playable to articulation 13.47. And all in all you have this "Ensemble patch which is really good for "Ending chords with the same articulation.
The lib is really good, but finally a real Quartett ist sth different. But really impressing for quick short layouts!!
Majestic
7:40 is that called the secondary dominant?
You are of course right there and thank you for pointing this out. F7 is a secondary dominant chord. It is the dominant to Bbmaj7 (which is the subdominant chord of Cmaj7). O
How do you come up with the composition? Do you sketch it out and then orchestrate it or do you do the whole orchestration at once. Also how do you come up with the melodies and the chords to use? I never understood this.
Hello Oliver, I am curious how you have connected the channels. I see that you have ensemble on top and the different strings on the following channels. I also see that all instruments have midi channel 1? On the channel info for each channel it says "all" on the midi ch. Do all channels have a separate Kontakt started up? My biggest question here is; How to make the setup you are using? I also wanna be able to use spiccato, long and pizzicato artikulations on separate channels. Help, please! Regards, Jerry
Nice work! But why you've not used the Spitfire Solo Strings?
Thank you Marco. Because for this brief the sound of the sacconi quartet was perfect, these guys are playing together as aa grouo regularly and I feel you can hear that when programming and writing with the library. The sound for this setting needed to be smaller and more traditional classical. The solo strings are great in a larger set up and are sounding a touch more modern. I hope this helps to understand my choice there. Thank you for watching. O
This is Amazing! What MIDI Controller did you use?
yamaha p70 i think😂
Can anybody tell me what is that fader thing in his left hand ?
Nice Piece! Regarding the pre-ending harmony problem: I'd suggest to change the Eb to an E natural on the second beat in bar 32... I get your point of using the Eb there, but I think it's just not enough time for the ear to change to the key of F afterwards.The E natural would create some sort of Bb Lydian Sound which feels already kinda "F majorish" = easier to get "home" (Bb Lyd. - C7 - F maj) Would love to hear how you changed it though :)
Pablo Struff You should post some links to your music Pablo!
Hi Pablo. Great input thank you. Have a listen to the piece on soundcloud, I feel ive managed through mixing to make it work, it sits better now. But I will try out your idea of course, makes a lot of sense! Ill get back to you. Best, O
Great!
7:26 when you don't have a clue about music theory and you just nod because it sounds good hahahah
dont really have know theory music man .. Its all about the EAR .. how much you can listen and replicate that sound.
I agree with Ricky! I dont usually write with theory in mind, but when it comes to 'immitating' someone for a media project, it is quite advantageous knowing about it. Best, O
What is the rack holding his analog gear above his electric piano in the background! I want it!!!!
What is the difference between solo strings and this?
I have the solo strings, I think the sound is a bit more modernistic
@@HiLoMusic Thanks for your response! Since solo strings is cheaper and has a bass, its the obvious choice for me. :)
@@thedamnchicken i have it, its my favorite solo string library i own, it matches well with chamber strings!
Solo Strings is recorded to sit with the Spitfire Symphonic Strings vs. standalone like Sacconi.
Yes, all very good and valid inputs here!
Sacconi offers a specific quartet sound and is designed for this more traditional set up. I have to say I love the flaut and harmonic patches on there too. As mentioned by others, solo strings sound bigger and are more for solo situations withing an orchestral set up. Best, O
nice video thanks 😄
I love ya dude, but...parallel octaves. Parallel. Octaves.
There's nothing wrong with parallel octaves or fifths, it's a vert outdated rule
@@KevinToine its writing for string quartets... in the style of Haydn
Check out Eine Kleine Nachtmusik. You might be surprised.
Parallel Octaves...Parallel Fifths...Doubled Leading Tones...Just brush up on the counterpoint!!
@@KevinToine It's only an issue if you want the voices to sound separate and independent. Parallel octaves/fifths make the voices sound like they're one voice, especially in small ensembles. It's not an arbitrary rule or fashion, it's just a technique that you can bear in mind to create a particular effect
What do you aim for with the Limiter ? Do you often try to bump it up to around -14 lufs?
you can make a video showing how to go from the score to the daw already transformed into midi ,,, and the articulation changes, for a string quartet ... how do you work this ... thanks in advance
Hi Ruben,
I actually played in and programmed all the parts in my DAW. So there was no transferring from score into midi. Best, O
Do you do the lead melody first or later
I notice a lot of midi notes overlap? Is that something to do with patches you used? Or general working with strings.
While writing in MIDI (strings, woods, brass) continuous lines like these are usually done with legato patches. Why overlap? Cuz these patches also contain recorded audio of “transitions.” Like when changing from one note to the next, whether that change in note was due to re-bowing or just by changing finger, etc. thereby providing a feeling of realism which wouldn’t otherwise be possible. When the piece needs to be put in front of the real orchestra to play, the overlapping is definitely removed and notes truncated properly. Hope this helps.
great
I notice you overlap your notes. I used to do this with Logic samples, would you advise this universally or is there a reason to do it for this piece or library in particular? Thanks.
These ate legato patches, so each note needs to be connected to trigger the legato transition. So it will sound like one note to another (you won't hear the overlap note). If it was a longs patch, you wouldn't really overlap them.
Pain is the key
I think truing to use a lot of theory to justify your composition is making it be so strained/tense.
2:00 that's a whole tone man :)
Spitfire looks complicated.
Hello Oliver, how much does Spitfire pay you annually?
Really?
literally sounds nothing like a string quartet
what would one go watch if one wanted to hear what sounds literally exactly like a string quartet?
You can only do so much with samples versus a real string quartet. For the application the piece was used for its fantastic, it’s not a piece written to be performed in concert it’s written to be underscore
Agreed - Glad I didn't buy it !
@@jonathankessler4684 That's true but there are dozens of software apps that have significantly more convincing quartet sounds.
Thanks for posting, it's a good introduction to creating a demo. However, it is somewhat disappointing how unexpressive and strident those strings samples sound.
I didn't realize this was for advertising music; those samples are fine.
honestly, it sounds really fake to my ears....
like Hans Zimmer said, no one can ever have orchestra in their finger tips
Strings sound fake, the music style isn't understood and there are some mistakes in the Haydn score shown at the beginning. Seriously what's the point ?
Tu as raison Mathieu! N'étant absolument pas un spécialiste de la chose, j'ai quand même du mal à comprendre cette vidéo qui ne donne pas du tout envie d'acheter une telle librairie.. En revanche réécouter de vrais quatuors oui! Spitfire nous a habitué à mieux..
Nice try! But I think it is your first time you attempt to write a quartet in this style:)
The sound of the quartet was not nice balanced (nothing to do with your composition).
The live session will sound a lot better.
One question... is Dorico involved in this project ?
nice try, just being classically educated string player i hear A LOT of basic voice leading errors. i guess too much education in nowadays is a curse :D
Even with all that great work. .. It still doesn't sound like a real quartet... I think it's impossible to get the real thing without musicians. Especially the violin. Always has that noticeably fake rendition :(
hes smiling he knows he cant write like Haydn Beethoven with spitfire libraries lol hahaha
Sorry man but the writing makes no sense at all.
That was the most idiotic "Classical" string quartet I've ever heard