I only ever used frameless packs my entire life, up until last year when I hiked (some of) the PCT. I was still planning on using a frameless pack, but the record high snow year and ensuing gear necessities finally convinced me to go with a frame. I'll still go frameless any time my TPW is under 10kg, which is 99% of my trips, but for heavier carries a frame is amazing.
Thanks for the comment! Yeah I definitely think it's a case of choosing the right tool for the job. I sometimes find myself wishing for a frame when I'm loaded up with camera gear.
The game changer to frameless packs, IMO, is a vest-type design for the shoulder straps. I recommend the Nashville Cutaway. The wider shoulder straps and integrated pockets spread the load more broadly across your torso and make carrying even 25 pounds a non-issue, at least for me. I’m not sure how the vest system works for well endowed women or large chested men.
@@timbschwartz he stopped making packs, but if you ever see a used Alien Outdoor Novum 40 pick it up without hesitation. By far the most comfortable frameless pack, IMO.
for some reason it didn't work for me. I also tried an hybride from atelier longue distance and also didn't work for me. Now I'm trying a new Palante Joey and it seems promising.
I would recommend first time frameless users shoot for 18 pounds max, including gear, food, and water, for a comfortable experience. I personally carry up to 28 pounds in a frameless pack with comfort, but my shoulders are used to the weight and my frameless pack of choice, which is no longer manufactured, has super wide vest-type shoulder straps that distribute much of the weight across my upper body, rather than focusing just along my shoulders. I agree with what someone else said about the lack of a hip belt. Without the constriction of a belt, my stride easily extends and I can put in more miles in a given time, as a result.
So my Kakwa44 - I kinda feel like it's a hybrid. There's no real frame, but there is a U pole inside. It 'wears' sorta framed as it's super sturdy but 'feels' frameless as it's so UL. It does have magic straps - load lifters. Such an improvement over a std frameless, to tim's point.
Maybe one day! Don't want to get too far off topic, but as it stands right now I prefer to buy all of my own gear. I see nothing wrong with TH-camrs accepting free stuff or anything like that, just at this stage I think it makes the most sense for the channel.
@@jamesbramlett5407 Trust is the most important thing! Sponsorships will need to happen at some point - it's really the only way to make a channel sustainable - but I'm still thinking through what I want that to look like. Thanks for your feedback here!
When I was 59 years old in 2016, I thru-hiked the AT with a ULA Circuit that weighed 28 lbs. fully loaded (14 lb base weight). Would like to do it again when I’m 69. Considered going frameless, but after comparing the weights of the Zpacks Ultra 60L pack and Nero pack, felt the frame would be worth the extra ½ pound. Using one of these Zpacks backpacks, along with today’s lighter gear, would reduce pack weight even further. What do you think? At 69 yrs old, should I use the Nero (18 ¾ lbs fully-loaded) or the Ultra 60 (19 ¼ lbs fully-loaded)? Comments, suggestions and/or feedback greatly appreciated?
Hey! Just checked this out. I haven't been on the Zimmerbuilt website in ages but it looks like he streamlined operations quite a bit - I seem to remember there being dozens of custom designs on there unless I'm thinking of something else. Anywho, after looking that may just be my next tiny pack.
@@timbschwartz oh nice. Chris is such a nice guy. He customized mine-changed all of the mesh for Xpac- for extra durability while bushwhacking. He can make it anyway you want. Ordered it and 4 days later I had it. Can’t recommend enough.
Pulling a frameless pack high and tight on my back so my center of gravity is largely unaffected and no weight bearing hip belt throwing off my stride, I’d say frameless packs are objectively more comfy assuming you don’t overload it.
Ive only winter backpacked so far and im new, so i carry alot of weight... 😂 my pack has 2 metal stays going up the back... with that said its a Mountain Hardware AMG 105L and i normally have a trail weight of 50-55lbs! Have maxed out on a big water carry over 70lbs though and it actually handled it very well 😅
Nice! At some point I'll need to pick up a pack without a hip belt. I could never bring myself to cut if off of my Burn, even then I always just keep it clipped behind my back.
if we talk backpacking..these days light aluminium dac frames weight nothing but add a massive difference in comfort,movement and even back ventilation. some of these vids just make me laugh really.
Thanks for the comment! Aluminum frames are quite light, but we're still talking .5 to 1 lb, which is significant. I think we all have varying levels of comfort with weight on our shoulders. Personally, I've used a frameless pack with 27+ lbs in the relatively rugged Cascades and I enjoy it. Others prefer to have that weight on their hips. All that matters is that we're having a good time!
I only ever used frameless packs my entire life, up until last year when I hiked (some of) the PCT. I was still planning on using a frameless pack, but the record high snow year and ensuing gear necessities finally convinced me to go with a frame. I'll still go frameless any time my TPW is under 10kg, which is 99% of my trips, but for heavier carries a frame is amazing.
Thanks for the comment! Yeah I definitely think it's a case of choosing the right tool for the job. I sometimes find myself wishing for a frame when I'm loaded up with camera gear.
The game changer to frameless packs, IMO, is a vest-type design for the shoulder straps. I recommend the Nashville Cutaway. The wider shoulder straps and integrated pockets spread the load more broadly across your torso and make carrying even 25 pounds a non-issue, at least for me. I’m not sure how the vest system works for well endowed women or large chested men.
I love love love the concept of the Cutaway, just haven't gotten around to picking one up yet. The running vest style looks so darn comfy.
@@timbschwartz he stopped making packs, but if you ever see a used Alien Outdoor Novum 40 pick it up without hesitation. By far the most comfortable frameless pack, IMO.
@@andymytys I'll keep my eye out!
for some reason it didn't work for me. I also tried an hybride from atelier longue distance and also didn't work for me. Now I'm trying a new Palante Joey and it seems promising.
I would recommend first time frameless users shoot for 18 pounds max, including gear, food, and water, for a comfortable experience.
I personally carry up to 28 pounds in a frameless pack with comfort, but my shoulders are used to the weight and my frameless pack of choice, which is no longer manufactured, has super wide vest-type shoulder straps that distribute much of the weight across my upper body, rather than focusing just along my shoulders.
I agree with what someone else said about the lack of a hip belt. Without the constriction of a belt, my stride easily extends and I can put in more miles in a given time, as a result.
So my Kakwa44 - I kinda feel like it's a hybrid. There's no real frame, but there is a U pole inside. It 'wears' sorta framed as it's super sturdy but 'feels' frameless as it's so UL. It does have magic straps - load lifters. Such an improvement over a std frameless, to tim's point.
Glad to hear you've been enjoying it! I should pick one up.
@@timbschwartz maybe DD will send u a demo for channel review
Maybe one day!
Don't want to get too far off topic, but as it stands right now I prefer to buy all of my own gear. I see nothing wrong with TH-camrs accepting free stuff or anything like that, just at this stage I think it makes the most sense for the channel.
@@timbschwartz I feel the same way, and it allows us to trust you even that much more :)
@@jamesbramlett5407 Trust is the most important thing! Sponsorships will need to happen at some point - it's really the only way to make a channel sustainable - but I'm still thinking through what I want that to look like. Thanks for your feedback here!
When I was 59 years old in 2016, I thru-hiked the AT with a ULA Circuit that weighed 28 lbs. fully loaded (14 lb base weight). Would like to do it again when I’m 69. Considered going frameless, but after comparing the weights of the Zpacks Ultra 60L pack and Nero pack, felt the frame would be worth the extra ½ pound. Using one of these Zpacks backpacks, along with today’s lighter gear, would reduce pack weight even further. What do you think? At 69 yrs old, should I use the Nero (18 ¾ lbs fully-loaded) or the Ultra 60 (19 ¼ lbs fully-loaded)? Comments, suggestions and/or feedback greatly appreciated?
Just got a Zimmerbuilt Quickstep 36L pack. It my first frameless pack. Will be interesting.
Hey! Just checked this out. I haven't been on the Zimmerbuilt website in ages but it looks like he streamlined operations quite a bit - I seem to remember there being dozens of custom designs on there unless I'm thinking of something else.
Anywho, after looking that may just be my next tiny pack.
@@timbschwartz oh nice. Chris is such a nice guy. He customized mine-changed all of the mesh for Xpac- for extra durability while bushwhacking.
He can make it anyway you want. Ordered it and 4 days later I had it. Can’t recommend enough.
@@wolfeadventures Awesome! Sounds like it'll be a good summer pack.
Do you put bear canister in the Exodus ?
Pulling a frameless pack high and tight on my back so my center of gravity is largely unaffected and no weight bearing hip belt throwing off my stride, I’d say frameless packs are objectively more comfy assuming you don’t overload it.
Totally agree! For us anyway - I suppose it depends on one's shoulders.
Ive only winter backpacked so far and im new, so i carry alot of weight... 😂 my pack has 2 metal stays going up the back... with that said its a Mountain Hardware AMG 105L and i normally have a trail weight of 50-55lbs! Have maxed out on a big water carry over 70lbs though and it actually handled it very well 😅
Nice! Sounds like an awesome bag. My winter kit is much heavier, as well. Besides, all that matters is that your'e having a good time!
I know that this doesn't speak to all frameless packs but I enjoy not having a hip belt. For me, having my hips move freely is super comfortable.
Nice! At some point I'll need to pick up a pack without a hip belt. I could never bring myself to cut if off of my Burn, even then I always just keep it clipped behind my back.
try to carry 10kg and over in rugged terrain
Not for me but it’s good to get insight as to why some people like them
Glad my ks pack is both
Checked out these packs - they look awesome!
if we talk backpacking..these days light aluminium dac frames weight nothing but add a massive difference in comfort,movement and even back ventilation. some of these vids just make me laugh really.
Thanks for the comment! Aluminum frames are quite light, but we're still talking .5 to 1 lb, which is significant.
I think we all have varying levels of comfort with weight on our shoulders. Personally, I've used a frameless pack with 27+ lbs in the relatively rugged Cascades and I enjoy it. Others prefer to have that weight on their hips.
All that matters is that we're having a good time!
I had a Zpack Nero. Piece of overpriced TRASH. I hated it. BTW ULA will add load lifters at a few buck more to their frameless packs.
Thanks for the tip on ULA, Jhony! I wasn't aware of that.