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People are really stretching this. Tony didn't see anything like that. It was just Age of Ultron. The concept of Multiverses wasn't established yet. Not in the cinema at least
@@williampearson6299 I haven’t started the video yet all the visions given shown the future. Black widows was shown the black widow movie. Thor did lead them to hel. Cap got the dance. An ultron in what if succeeded. Tony saw hulk die on sakar Thor died with oden black widow fell cap solo with thanos in endgame Hawkeye become Ronan
In Loki episode 1, Mobius says the TVA has a Nightmare Department. Maybe they monitor dreams to make sure these multiversal visions don't affect someone's actions into becoming a Nexus Event. Mobius is okay with Loki burning it to the ground because he thinks this Minority Report (Ammut-ish?) precrime enforcement is too creepy.
I think he's spot on with he's theory. And America Chavez is the key. I quote: "As she explains to Benedict Cumberbatch's Doctor Stephen Strange, dreams offer people windows into their multiversal selves. According to America, who has traveled through 73 timelines, no other universe has a variant of her. She knows this because she never dreams. "
@@shadowofthestarsdespair Infinite doesn't mean everything that could possibly happen will happen. For example, there are an infinite number of numbers between 1.0 and 2.0 but none of them are 3.0. (1.1, 1.2, 1.11, 1.22, etc.)
@@SneakyPet3 That "she never dreams" part is actually a pretty good piece of evidence. However, I kind of hate that idea. If I had written this movie, I would never have said that. It's so limiting from a storytelling perspective. Dreams are a great way of getting into a characters head and revealing how they feel about something. Now every dream must be interpreted as another universe? That is actually super lame.
Man that scene with Morbius jumping out of the portal while saying his famous line, “It’s Morbin time” was a masterpiece. It really made me think why the political economical status of our world correlates with Morbius. Truly a masterpiece
when carnage said "LET. THERE. BE... CARNAGE!" as he and and morbius made their grand entrance into the MCU and proceeded to stick their tongues down each other's throats was definitely not what I was expecting, but it's that way of keeping you on your toes that makes it clear why this movie sold over 100 Morbillion tickets. Bravo.
I know a lot of people right now feel a lack of connection and look at Loki, NWH, and MoM as disjointed, but I think the opening of the multiverse is happening slowly, one crack at a time, until it breaks. I think Quantumania is the first film where we will get more in depth answers and really start to see the bigger picture come together.
I like this theory. But I do have a theory. In the comics, and in the MCU confirmed by WandaVision, The Scarlet Witch is a nexus being, only one can exist in the ENTIRE multiverse! Meaning, whilst there can be infinite Wandas, there can only be one Scarlet Witch. Which means that our Wanda just so happened to be the lucky or unlucky variant to been given the chance to become The Scarlet Witch. She is destined to rule or destroy the earth and the multiverse itself!
Not anymore as the Darkhold has been destroyed and there is only one book, same with the book of Vishanti now but the Vishanti gods are still out there to be asked about it and I assume that Chthon is as well.
@@naeemislam1105 um.. I did there were infinite Wandas but one Scarlet Witch. Remember, the Scarlet Witch is not born, she is forged. Therefore, Chthon chose her as the vessel for the Scarlet Witch and there are no other Scarlet Witchs in the multiverse because she is a nexus being.
I think the sacred timeline just allowed the multiverse to remain stable without incursions or people crossing over into other universes. The first Doctor Strange movie showed a vast multiverse with the sacred timeline still in effect. The death of He Who Remains just allowed chaos to happen in the multiverse. Dreams can be symbolic representations of other universes and not the actual universe. It is possible that when you dream, you actually become all the different variants of you through different dreams, but you don't remember.
Also this means that Tony's PTSD dreams in Iron Man 3 were also dreaming of a Tony that went through the same stuff but maybe dealt with it differently or more healthily. In 838 we see Ultron guards that work fine, so maybe their Tony built them, and died before Strange got there which makes sense as there was an empty chair when Strange was before the Illuminati and Iron Man is a very common member of the group in the comics.
Either that or he was busy and did not go there on purpose during the time when our strange went there and would later find the members of the illuminati dead.
@@Drewbiedoobie26 Yeah, probably, but Tony was that way in Endgame and he came out of retirement for the Time Heist but we don't see him there for when the Illuminati stopped Thanos so did Thanos's quest not register the same importance in this universe as it did for the main Tony?
In Loki, the time line splits at every point. Not just points after he left the timeline implying it's either always broken or never broken. Also America says she never dreams. Implying that the reason for that is that she is the only one in the multiverse. She didn't just stop dreaming at one point. She never dreamed so dreams were always connected to the multiverse within America's life time which goes back farther than when Loki left the time line. They also mentioned that Loki is effecting different time lines not different dimensions. They didn't really explain the difference, but they said there is one. Really whichever way you look at it, I don't think you can blame Loki for the connection.
things like prophetic dreams(dreams that depict the literal,not metaphorical future) actually exist, so who's to say dreams in our reality *dont* sometimes glimpse into other universes/tinelines?
Anyone else remember when the ancient one told dr. Strange to open his eye and hit his forehead right where his 3rd eye came out from in the ending of mutileverse of madness
Even though it was an easter egg. In the second iron man movie, during the trial scene. Tony is shown using his cell phone and it had a bunch of contacts. One contact in particular was named the "illuminati" in bright bold letters. Tony may have formed a pre-team on a smaller scale. Tony is always 10 steps ahead of everyone else.
I've been re-watching agents of shield and came across an interesting part. In season 4 during the "darkhold" episodes, Robbie Reyes brings up the multiverse without saying it by name. He mentions how hell is relative. That what we call hell is another dimension. That there is a war that has been raging forever. Sounds like secret wars has been getting set up even with shield... p.s I hope they find a way to bring Robbie Reyes or another Ghost Rider back. He was so much better then movie version...
But didn't they say that this only became possible after the events of Loki? So they were just dreams then, but going forward all dreams should be thought of as seeing into the multiverse??
@@MrCorey213 Bingo. All of time was affected so there’s basically no way to pinpoint Loki in the overall timeline. I think AoU was simply witch visions rather than actual dreams, but there’s likely a universe where that vision played out. Either way, we’re gonna be doing more time traveling with Quantumania, Loki S2, & possibly with the Fantastic 4. The past is irrelevant now & we’ll likely start getting incursions back then soon with Kang & Renslayer creating all kinds of Nexus Events. They could honestly retcon whatever they want from the past movies in the 616 timeline.
@@SpiritxEnigma Yeah why cant people justfigure this out Not even some breakdown peopl cant get it It makes sense storytelling wise And it goes along with some Quantom physics models (appeatantly)
Imagine if variants and a real life multiverse was real. & dreams were essentially the way we see our variant in another universe. Quite the fascinating concept that makes me ponder.
I like to believe that, not because I think they live better life, but because for the fact itself that there are more universes and we are connected to them.
I honestly believe it kind of works like that, I had so many dreams that felt real, once I got chased by a t-Rex in a dream across a bridge, ik it sounds dumb but it felt so real
It should be noted that the trope of "dreams are a means for you to see other existing worlds" thing has been around for as long as the idea of other realms has been a thing. HP Lovecraft in particular did this quite often with his Dream Cycle stories.
Check it..Wanda DID give the avengers glimpses into their multiversal variants because she temporarily allowed them to dreamwalk even though she didn’t know that’s what it was. Loki and Sylvie chronologically released the multiverse after the first avengers film because of the avengers’ actions in endgame. Her ability to even do that at the time she did could maybe be seen as a literal representation of a time paradox, but I think it’s as simple as we the audience not yet knowing that she can do this.. I’m clearly reaching, but whatever this is fun 😂
The Ancestral Plane when T'Challa wanted to see what would become of Wakanda after his father. Maybe he also saw his eventual (scripted) death and getting replaced.
When fury tranks Ned in far from home , now they don't show his dream but I'm gonna go forward with him thinking about becoming a magic slingin,hobgoblin. Lol
But if the multiversal events in Loki flow through “all time, always” then they would have existed throughout the MCU as we’ve experienced it. It wouldn’t be post endgame. Even if it was fixed to a point of time, wouldn’t it be to the invasion of NY in 2012?
Sometimes during deep sleep I dreamt about being intimate with someone who I have never met or saw IRL but felt like we knew each other, faces I've only seen first time in that dream. I always wonder, if it's just my brain playing tricks on me. How can my brain construct such a unique face and persona. Do they exist in real life? If I could draw or print a photo of their faces I might be able to find someone who look exactly IRL
According to show creators, Loki, the multiverse didn't exist until after Loki. Meaning anything Scarlet Witch made Tony see, wasn't multiverse vision. It was just simply mind manipulation.
There's a problem with that tho. America is a teenager and has been hopping universes since she was a child. That means the aftermath of loki started over a decade ago.
Wanda with her kids was in a universe where she took Agatha's offer of Agatha would show her how to keep her kids only if Wanda gave up her powers. Notice Wanda with Kids never used her powers plus the boys had no powers meaning Vision no longer existed in Agatha's plan. But the Darkhold was well known, it was Agatha all along.
Didn't Agatha tell her that once cast a spell can never be changed and therefore the world she had created would always be broken, there was no way for her to keep her kids without keeping the hex around Westview.
In retrospect to one of my comments on a previous video: these are actually good theories and who am I to say they are incorrect until more information is released but I personally believe that dreams only became windows into variants' lives during the events of Endgame... Kevin Feige stated that the events of Loki opened our timeline (616) up to the wider Multiverse but through the perspective of the characters inside the timeline it has always been a Multiverse so with that information combined with the fact the events of Loki take place paradoxically outside of and during all time, I believe it would be that moment in Endgame where Loki escapes with the Tesseract that the timeline was officially opened to the Multiverse and dreams became windows into variants' lives and dreams before this point were just dreams
Hey Ryan I don’t usually comment on your videos but I just wanted to say that your videos are A.M.A.Z.I.N.G seriously I watch every single video of you talking about everything from the multiverse you explain everything so well so yeah I wanted to let you know
So theoretically every time someone in Final Destination has a premonition, they are really briefly seeing versions of themselves in the multiverse that didn't survive the disaster😮😮😮
Your scientific knowledge is not up to date. For instance, it's been reported how the discovery has been made that our memory is not stored in our brain (more of a filter) but are stored in a cloud in the quantum field.
Didn't Strange say Wanda seemed to have destroyed all of the darkholds across the multiverse by destroying Wundagore, when the book he recovered from sinister strange burned up? Or was that a misdirect?
The events during Age of Ultron could be interpreted as occurring after the sacred timeline was destroyed. We don't know exactly when Loki takes place, but we know it's after Avengers and if time doesn't move in the TVA all of the events of Loki could have take place shortly after the end of Avengers, meaning that the sacred timeline has been broken for much longer than we think.
OMG! someone is finally addressing this. I've been saying that tonies vision from wanda was an alternate reality all along. I've been saying the mind stone loki brings is from anlinear alternate future. I've been saying Thanos has his own timeloop. I've been saying it for years. yet for some reason no one has ever addressed it till now. thank you Ryan. You and I apparently are the only people who care about the details. next up you should talk about the devils anus, relativistic timetravel, lokis ability to enchant on sakaar and the fact he couldn't do it in the TVA before confronting Aliath. this rabbit hole goes deep. for one loki most likely made his reputation on sakaar after the first Thor movie. especially because he black hole loki fell into after Thor destroyed the rainbow bridge is the devils anus. that's how Thor valkery/loki and Banner all arrive at asgaard in ragnarock. and the person I believe actually saved the sakarans was valkery disguised as loki, which may also mean that Thor electrocuted valkery ... We've known about the multiverse and timetravel as early as the first avengers. the end credits song foreshadows the death and rebirth of universes. I'm just a little sad it took so long for content creators to talk about this. So far screen crush is the best at dissecting relevant overarching plot points.
I guess the way I see it is that dreams CAN be insights into other universes. The film made it sound absolute... but it makes more sense that America Chavez was just being dramatic
Dreams were just dreams, until the multiverse exploded and dreams connected EVERYONE with their multiversal selves... why?! By what mechanism would this possibly happen? Wanda isn't connected to everyone. Also, the Morgan Stark angle is the flimsiest part of this. I get that you wanted one more thing to chalk up to this theory, but the truth is much simpler: Tony was ready to settle down, had a dream, and later followed through on one - very insignificant - aspect of that dream. For all we know, the Morgan in his dream was a redhead. With two heads! A conjoined twin that built better suits than he ever did, and went back in time to kill Thanos before Tony could do the snap and get the last word!
Two problems with that. 1 the last part of loki happened outside of time and space. You can't really say "when" the multiverse exploded. 2. America said she can't dream. That implies ALL dreams are views into the multiverse, and since she's a teenager that means dreams have been working this way for a while.
Bro not all dreams are multiversal it’s like this. If you dream a memory it’s a memory dream. If you dream something that has never happened to you it’s multiversal. Simple as that.
I honestly think some dreams are glimpses to the multiverse, some are a compilation of what you've seen. Reason I believe it's a glimpse into the multiverse is i haven't seen wrestling in years, i was in high school, i dreamnt of me watching wrestling, a voice told me "Look at these three, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose." After i woke up i wrote the names down, went to youtube after school, looked them up and it was real. Prior to high school no one in my life no one told me about wrestling, i honestly think me from a different universe got me back into wrestling, and i have fun watching AEW, WWE, impact, NJPW and others, so thanks parallel me 😁👍
Multiverse is a shrewd way for marvel movie production to create a different stories without have to follow the canon of the main storyline. Which lead to more movies and money. Very clever business.
Scarlet Witch is tied to Dark Phoenix. Same Red powers. I believe that they come from the 7th infinity stone that was whatever queen who was so powerful that she turned herself into a red gas.
I actually had the multiverse dream theory when I watched loki. Didn’t watch anything or read anything about it, but just thought enough about everything and came to that really awesome conclusion. So cool
Spoiler alert in case this is right: …I think you have good theories. Marvel can do anything because Loki series changed the TVA. So it’s like they never pruned branches or won’t prune universes. And instead of the multiverse war being won, it’s now still ongoing. The TVA didn’t recognize Loki because instead of pruning they are making branches. So marvel can say characters are crossing over or never were pruned or always existed( I.e variants never were removed). Hence daredevil and kingpin showing up and not being weird except to the audience. Different Wanda theory: the mind stone unlocked her dormant power. Perhaps she wished away all mutants in the past. I.e house of M is secretly in the past. I think her vision is her in the past. Hence the difference between universe 838 and 616.
We can also say that infinity stones of a universe acts as a box for the universe, and now since infinity stones are gone there is no box. Hence people can now see there versions in other universes in the dreams.
Wouldn't the effects of Loki take place after avengers 1? Since that's the moment in time Loki went to the TVA, and the TVA is outside of time and space. So dreams would be connected to the multiverse ever since avengers 1?
The events of Loki take place outside of time, so there's no way to pinpoint the beginning and end of the multiversal branching we see when He Who Remains dies. The only logical (though it still presents paradoxical concepts) explanation is that the multiverse has always existed and that the TVA's sole purpose is to prune timelines that lead to the emergence of Kang. I know, it becomes more complicated the more you think about it. Hopefully they explain some of this in Quantumania.
I honestly think there's no mutants in the main mcu verse. There's too much established history for mutants to have existed all along. And I don't think having them suddenly spring up is gonna work with xmen story lines.
The multiverse always existed to the people in the timeline since the TVA is outside of the timeline everything happening in the TVA has always been happening at the same time in every moment of the timeline.
With the elder demons being established in Multiverse of Madness I hope that means Cyttorak is also in the MCU and we get to see Juggernaut, or even better, Unstoppable Colossus.
The fact Cthon predicted the events of the multiverse and created the Darkhold indicates that multiversal branches form off one another in predictable ways. This means that there are intrinsic forces that are fundamental to the existence of a multiverse, one of those being the Scarlett Witch. We also know from He Who Remains that this multiverse goes through cycles of expansion and contraction. In a metaphysical way this explains the evolution of detail the audience observes in the marvel multiverse from the pages of a comic to that of a big screen feature. While this may simple be explained as art, if the multiverse were real this would indicate a sort of reverse echo effect; one where the audience observes different branch universes reflecting off one another such that the signal (story) of the multiverse as a whole is reinforced and strengthened. The cycle is: the signal/story being refined during a period of contraction, and then adulterated during a period of expansion in order to find the strongest arc to focus on in the next cycle of contraction. As only a single multiversal bundle can exist at a (hyper) time, this means every iteration of a multiverse (in the sequence of expansion and contraction) contains a Scarlett Witch. Even ours.
Well, this totally contradicts the meaning for the show Loki, since before Loki and Sylvie killed kang the conqueror if a new branch of the original timeline was to be created the TVA would step in and stop it from happening and breach the timeline. So, the thought that multiple dreams of the same thing keep happening is false especially since they all happened before the TVA got totally destroyed because if they event were to happen the TVA would just come breach the reality so don't you think if those were of another universe in the MCU that they would step in? Maybe this whole thing could also be refuted from the fact that there are already different universes besides the original 616. But I don't believe they would be allowed to see that. But who knows all we could do is guess?
But Loki, new variant timelines would begin a breach, and the TVA had to stop them before the branch went too far. This would suggest that in the time it take the TVA to enter the variant timelines to reset it, people in the Sacarate Timeline could dream of their divergents.
Evil Strange told 616 Strange he was the Reason he was having Nightmares! He was Corrupted by the Dark-Hold and was killing off other Strange’s in the Multiverse And he Wanted Christine!
I think the soul world, ancestral plane all lie in the space between this multiverse!!!! So when t Chala goes to ancestral plane he travels his subconscious there!!! Same goes to moonknight!!! It’s like they all are dreaming and connecting to the beliefs of all the multiverse characters!!
I think Kang will take Wanda back to that moment to warn Stark about what he does if he does what he wants to do next, the part that shocks him the most is when Wanda tells him that the avengers get him & Natasha killed so he changes his mind and then all the MCU are officially ignored 👀
I still don't get how Wanda has all these different versions when all through WandaVision we were told that the Scarlet Witch is a constant and the same in every reality. ?
This is a super good theory except for one point- Wanda supposedly destroys all darkholds in the multiverse. Which would make her potentially the one and only scarlet witch going forward and thus we have the mcguffin for secret wars.
On the whole, 'Wanda coming back for future big-time multiversal stuff'(cthon fully-possessing her aside), I can't help but have one line come to mind: "Daddy? No more Mutants." ....
When it comes to the dreamscape the one verybimportant critical lens for this subjective view would surround the concept of the third eye. information of potential futures and past conflicts etc. the mindstone seems to be at the center of looped time. it loops information that creates alternative paths in time.
What’ll really wrap your mind is does the breaking of the sacred timeline occur shortly after Loki takes the tesseract and leaves 2012 or is the timeline considered broken after endgame
For that moment in Age of Ultron: 1. Wanda didn't know about the existence of multiverse and The Darkhold yet 2. Tony was not dreaming but just hallucination causing by Wanda's hex power
I think you’re on to something, but there’s room for some dreams to not be visions from another universe, because there is still memory. Basically, your dream could show you a part of the multiverse, but could also show you a part of your universe; so it’s not the case that all dreams show the multiverse. But America Chavez saying she has no dreams at all throws a wrench in that.
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People are really stretching this. Tony didn't see anything like that. It was just Age of Ultron. The concept of Multiverses wasn't established yet. Not in the cinema at least
Ima look into this furniture… look’s comfy
@@williampearson6299
I haven’t started the video yet
all the visions given shown the future.
Black widows was shown the black widow movie.
Thor did lead them to hel.
Cap got the dance.
An ultron in what if succeeded.
Tony saw hulk die on sakar
Thor died with oden
black widow fell
cap solo with thanos in endgame
Hawkeye become Ronan
When do we get plot holes in moon knight
*_Hm. But where does all the visions and dreams from the X-Men movies fit in all this?_*
In Loki episode 1, Mobius says the TVA has a Nightmare Department. Maybe they monitor dreams to make sure these multiversal visions don't affect someone's actions into becoming a Nexus Event. Mobius is okay with Loki burning it to the ground because he thinks this Minority Report (Ammut-ish?) precrime enforcement is too creepy.
I don't think every dream is a vision of the multiverse. Just some of them. Also, visions do not equal dreams.
Yep. That one with Tony and the baby, I can believe. But not this video
I think he's spot on with he's theory. And America Chavez is the key. I quote: "As she explains to Benedict Cumberbatch's Doctor Stephen Strange, dreams offer people windows into their multiversal selves. According to America, who has traveled through 73 timelines, no other universe has a variant of her. She knows this because she never dreams. "
In a multivariate universe thier are infinite posababilties where anything can happen so yea it happend in one
@@shadowofthestarsdespair Infinite doesn't mean everything that could possibly happen will happen. For example, there are an infinite number of numbers between 1.0 and 2.0 but none of them are 3.0. (1.1, 1.2, 1.11, 1.22, etc.)
@@SneakyPet3 That "she never dreams" part is actually a pretty good piece of evidence. However, I kind of hate that idea. If I had written this movie, I would never have said that. It's so limiting from a storytelling perspective. Dreams are a great way of getting into a characters head and revealing how they feel about something. Now every dream must be interpreted as another universe? That is actually super lame.
Man that scene with Morbius jumping out of the portal while saying his famous line, “It’s Morbin time” was a masterpiece. It really made me think why the political economical status of our world correlates with Morbius. Truly a masterpiece
when carnage said "LET. THERE. BE... CARNAGE!" as he and and morbius made their grand entrance into the MCU and proceeded to stick their tongues down each other's throats was definitely not what I was expecting, but it's that way of keeping you on your toes that makes it clear why this movie sold over 100 Morbillion tickets. Bravo.
Agreed. I think he made the movie for sure
@@nostalgiatrip7331 wait what
@@mranderson4001 yes
@Tux Dude.. Screw your profile pic. I was rubbin' my screen too long tryna take that one little hair off. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤣🤣
I know a lot of people right now feel a lack of connection and look at Loki, NWH, and MoM as disjointed, but I think the opening of the multiverse is happening slowly, one crack at a time, until it breaks. I think Quantumania is the first film where we will get more in depth answers and really start to see the bigger picture come together.
I like this theory. But I do have a theory. In the comics, and in the MCU confirmed by WandaVision, The Scarlet Witch is a nexus being, only one can exist in the ENTIRE multiverse! Meaning, whilst there can be infinite Wandas, there can only be one Scarlet Witch. Which means that our Wanda just so happened to be the lucky or unlucky variant to been given the chance to become The Scarlet Witch. She is destined to rule or destroy the earth and the multiverse itself!
This makes the most since. 100% agree
@LAST ACTION NƎGRO that could be entirely possible.
Not anymore as the Darkhold has been destroyed and there is only one book, same with the book of Vishanti now but the Vishanti gods are still out there to be asked about it and I assume that Chthon is as well.
thats stuoid because it showed another wanda
@@naeemislam1105 um.. I did there were infinite Wandas but one Scarlet Witch. Remember, the Scarlet Witch is not born, she is forged. Therefore, Chthon chose her as the vessel for the Scarlet Witch and there are no other Scarlet Witchs in the multiverse because she is a nexus being.
I think the sacred timeline just allowed the multiverse to remain stable without incursions or people crossing over into other universes. The first Doctor Strange movie showed a vast multiverse with the sacred timeline still in effect. The death of He Who Remains just allowed chaos to happen in the multiverse. Dreams can be symbolic representations of other universes and not the actual universe. It is possible that when you dream, you actually become all the different variants of you through different dreams, but you don't remember.
Also this means that Tony's PTSD dreams in Iron Man 3 were also dreaming of a Tony that went through the same stuff but maybe dealt with it differently or more healthily. In 838 we see Ultron guards that work fine, so maybe their Tony built them, and died before Strange got there which makes sense as there was an empty chair when Strange was before the Illuminati and Iron Man is a very common member of the group in the comics.
Either that or he was busy and did not go there on purpose during the time when our strange went there and would later find the members of the illuminati dead.
Wouldnt he be retired, raising his daughter then?
Oops that makes more sense, Tony was talking about how if Ultron was successful he would retire.
@@Drewbiedoobie26 Yeah, probably, but Tony was that way in Endgame and he came out of retirement for the Time Heist but we don't see him there for when the Illuminati stopped Thanos so did Thanos's quest not register the same importance in this universe as it did for the main Tony?
@@gabrielmurray929 he stayed behind on earth to be the last line of defense
I don’t think anything before Loki was a dream connecting to the multiverse but I enjoy your content! Keep up the great work!
In Loki, the time line splits at every point. Not just points after he left the timeline implying it's either always broken or never broken.
Also America says she never dreams. Implying that the reason for that is that she is the only one in the multiverse. She didn't just stop dreaming at one point. She never dreamed so dreams were always connected to the multiverse within America's life time which goes back farther than when Loki left the time line.
They also mentioned that Loki is effecting different time lines not different dimensions. They didn't really explain the difference, but they said there is one.
Really whichever way you look at it, I don't think you can blame Loki for the connection.
There was a multiverse in the MCU before Loki. (series)
things like prophetic dreams(dreams that depict the literal,not metaphorical future) actually exist, so who's to say dreams in our reality *dont* sometimes glimpse into other universes/tinelines?
Anyone else remember when the ancient one told dr. Strange to open his eye and hit his forehead right where his 3rd eye came out from in the ending of mutileverse of madness
Even though it was an easter egg. In the second iron man movie, during the trial scene. Tony is shown using his cell phone and it had a bunch of contacts. One contact in particular was named the "illuminati" in bright bold letters. Tony may have formed a pre-team on a smaller scale. Tony is always 10 steps ahead of everyone else.
Well now he's 10 steps below everyone else.
I've been re-watching agents of shield and came across an interesting part. In season 4 during the "darkhold" episodes, Robbie Reyes brings up the multiverse without saying it by name. He mentions how hell is relative. That what we call hell is another dimension. That there is a war that has been raging forever. Sounds like secret wars has been getting set up even with shield... p.s I hope they find a way to bring Robbie Reyes or another Ghost Rider back. He was so much better then movie version...
But didn't they say that this only became possible after the events of Loki? So they were just dreams then, but going forward all dreams should be thought of as seeing into the multiverse??
The thing is, the events of Loki happen outside of time. Throughout all of time, the multiverse exists.
@@MrCorey213 Bingo. All of time was affected so there’s basically no way to pinpoint Loki in the overall timeline. I think AoU was simply witch visions rather than actual dreams, but there’s likely a universe where that vision played out.
Either way, we’re gonna be doing more time traveling with Quantumania, Loki S2, & possibly with the Fantastic 4. The past is irrelevant now & we’ll likely start getting incursions back then soon with Kang & Renslayer creating all kinds of Nexus Events.
They could honestly retcon whatever they want from the past movies in the 616 timeline.
@@SpiritxEnigma Yeah why cant people justfigure this out
Not even some breakdown peopl cant get it
It makes sense storytelling wise
And it goes along with some Quantom
physics models (appeatantly)
e
Imagine if variants and a real life multiverse was real. & dreams were essentially the way we see our variant in another universe. Quite the fascinating concept that makes me ponder.
So many horror dreams i have i feel bad for my alternate self 😅
Somewhere in the Multiverse is my variant that has to run backwards to escape his biggest fears. 😨😱
So when you have a falling to your death dream...
I like to believe that, not because I think they live better life, but because for the fact itself that there are more universes and we are connected to them.
I honestly believe it kind of works like that, I had so many dreams that felt real, once I got chased by a t-Rex in a dream across a bridge, ik it sounds dumb but it felt so real
It should be noted that the trope of "dreams are a means for you to see other existing worlds" thing has been around for as long as the idea of other realms has been a thing.
HP Lovecraft in particular did this quite often with his Dream Cycle stories.
Check it..Wanda DID give the avengers glimpses into their multiversal variants because she temporarily allowed them to dreamwalk even though she didn’t know that’s what it was.
Loki and Sylvie chronologically released the multiverse after the first avengers film because of the avengers’ actions in endgame.
Her ability to even do that at the time she did could maybe be seen as a literal representation of a time paradox, but I think it’s as simple as we the audience not yet knowing that she can do this..
I’m clearly reaching, but whatever this is fun 😂
Nah you need the darkhold to dream walk. She can't do it on her own.
@@TheZettabytetv truuuuuue!!!
Are there any other examples of dreaming in the MCU?
When morbius dreamed about his movie making 1 morbillion dollars at the box office
The Ancestral Plane when T'Challa wanted to see what would become of Wakanda after his father. Maybe he also saw his eventual (scripted) death and getting replaced.
When fury tranks Ned in far from home , now they don't show his dream but I'm gonna go forward with him thinking about becoming a magic slingin,hobgoblin. Lol
How about Scott's dream in ant man and the wasp when Janet Van Dyne contacts him from the quantum realm?
If dreams can easily move between MV like that I wonder how strong "Nightmare" would be!
But if the multiversal events in Loki flow through “all time, always” then they would have existed throughout the MCU as we’ve experienced it. It wouldn’t be post endgame. Even if it was fixed to a point of time, wouldn’t it be to the invasion of NY in 2012?
I do hope they’ll bring back a version of pietro one day, there’s a lot the MCU could do with his character
It sucked they killed him off right away
Sometimes during deep sleep I dreamt about being intimate with someone who I have never met or saw IRL but felt like we knew each other, faces I've only seen first time in that dream. I always wonder, if it's just my brain playing tricks on me. How can my brain construct such a unique face and persona. Do they exist in real life? If I could draw or print a photo of their faces I might be able to find someone who look exactly IRL
We don’t come here for thoughtful analysis. We come here for you Doug
According to show creators, Loki, the multiverse didn't exist until after Loki. Meaning anything Scarlet Witch made Tony see, wasn't multiverse vision. It was just simply mind manipulation.
Yea the multiverse didn't open up until after loki, screencrush is REALLY reaching here
There's a problem with that tho. America is a teenager and has been hopping universes since she was a child. That means the aftermath of loki started over a decade ago.
@@TheZettabytetv I chalk that up to bad writing 😅
Wanda with her kids was in a universe where she took Agatha's offer of Agatha would show her how to keep her kids only if Wanda gave up her powers. Notice Wanda with Kids never used her powers plus the boys had no powers meaning Vision no longer existed in Agatha's plan. But the Darkhold was well known, it was Agatha all along.
Didn't Agatha tell her that once cast a spell can never be changed and therefore the world she had created would always be broken, there was no way for her to keep her kids without keeping the hex around Westview.
In retrospect to one of my comments on a previous video: these are actually good theories and who am I to say they are incorrect until more information is released but I personally believe that dreams only became windows into variants' lives during the events of Endgame...
Kevin Feige stated that the events of Loki opened our timeline (616) up to the wider Multiverse but through the perspective of the characters inside the timeline it has always been a Multiverse so with that information combined with the fact the events of Loki take place paradoxically outside of and during all time, I believe it would be that moment in Endgame where Loki escapes with the Tesseract that the timeline was officially opened to the Multiverse and dreams became windows into variants' lives and dreams before this point were just dreams
Hey Ryan I don’t usually comment on your videos but I just wanted to say that your videos are A.M.A.Z.I.N.G seriously I watch every single video of you talking about everything from the multiverse you explain everything so well so yeah I wanted to let you know
Tony saw the MorbiusVerse🦇
I normally don't like what doug has to say, but he's on point today
Thanks Doug, your questions teed up Ryan’s explanation. Good job.
So theoretically every time someone in Final Destination has a premonition, they are really briefly seeing versions of themselves in the multiverse that didn't survive the disaster😮😮😮
Wrong universe but great theory though
What do you think of our theory?
The Multiverse didn't exist during Avengers: Age Of Ultron.
Your scientific knowledge is not up to date. For instance, it's been reported how the discovery has been made that our memory is not stored in our brain (more of a filter) but are stored in a cloud in the quantum field.
I stopped dreaming several years ago so I'm assuming my alternate self from other universes all died. RIP
I can't get enough of these videos man great job
Didn't Strange say Wanda seemed to have destroyed all of the darkholds across the multiverse by destroying Wundagore, when the book he recovered from sinister strange burned up? Or was that a misdirect?
The events during Age of Ultron could be interpreted as occurring after the sacred timeline was destroyed. We don't know exactly when Loki takes place, but we know it's after Avengers and if time doesn't move in the TVA all of the events of Loki could have take place shortly after the end of Avengers, meaning that the sacred timeline has been broken for much longer than we think.
We are like the dreamer who dreams, and then lives inside the dream.
Guaranteed plot one way or another in the Secret Wars: Scarlet and America end up going to the multiverses TOGETHER to recruit
OMG! someone is finally addressing this. I've been saying that tonies vision from wanda was an alternate reality all along. I've been saying the mind stone loki brings is from anlinear alternate future. I've been saying Thanos has his own timeloop. I've been saying it for years. yet for some reason no one has ever addressed it till now. thank you Ryan. You and I apparently are the only people who care about the details.
next up you should talk about the devils anus, relativistic timetravel, lokis ability to enchant on sakaar and the fact he couldn't do it in the TVA before confronting Aliath. this rabbit hole goes deep. for one loki most likely made his reputation on sakaar after the first Thor movie. especially because he black hole loki fell into after Thor destroyed the rainbow bridge is the devils anus. that's how Thor valkery/loki and Banner all arrive at asgaard in ragnarock. and the person I believe actually saved the sakarans was valkery disguised as loki, which may also mean that Thor electrocuted valkery
... We've known about the multiverse and timetravel as early as the first avengers. the end credits song foreshadows the death and rebirth of universes.
I'm just a little sad it took so long for content creators to talk about this. So far screen crush is the best at dissecting relevant overarching plot points.
Makes me wonder If / When we might see Sleepwalker, there's a Sleepwalker action figure in the Dr. Strange: MoM action figure line.
I guess the way I see it is that dreams CAN be insights into other universes. The film made it sound absolute... but it makes more sense that America Chavez was just being dramatic
9:51 that Dear Sister call back though
While this in theory is really cool. I’m so happy there’s no truth to this cause I be having some crazy dreams 😭😭😭
Has anyone else noticed Ryan has this funny blinking thing he does
Dreams were just dreams, until the multiverse exploded and dreams connected EVERYONE with their multiversal selves... why?! By what mechanism would this possibly happen? Wanda isn't connected to everyone. Also, the Morgan Stark angle is the flimsiest part of this. I get that you wanted one more thing to chalk up to this theory, but the truth is much simpler: Tony was ready to settle down, had a dream, and later followed through on one - very insignificant - aspect of that dream. For all we know, the Morgan in his dream was a redhead. With two heads! A conjoined twin that built better suits than he ever did, and went back in time to kill Thanos before Tony could do the snap and get the last word!
Two problems with that. 1 the last part of loki happened outside of time and space. You can't really say "when" the multiverse exploded. 2. America said she can't dream. That implies ALL dreams are views into the multiverse, and since she's a teenager that means dreams have been working this way for a while.
Bro not all dreams are multiversal it’s like this. If you dream a memory it’s a memory dream. If you dream something that has never happened to you it’s multiversal. Simple as that.
I honestly think some dreams are glimpses to the multiverse, some are a compilation of what you've seen.
Reason I believe it's a glimpse into the multiverse is i haven't seen wrestling in years, i was in high school, i dreamnt of me watching wrestling, a voice told me "Look at these three, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose." After i woke up i wrote the names down, went to youtube after school, looked them up and it was real. Prior to high school no one in my life no one told me about wrestling, i honestly think me from a different universe got me back into wrestling, and i have fun watching AEW, WWE, impact, NJPW and others, so thanks parallel me 😁👍
Multiverse is a shrewd way for marvel movie production to create a different stories without have to follow the canon of the main storyline. Which lead to more movies and money.
Very clever business.
I think it's sacrilege that mark Ruffalo hasn't had the chance to have his own solo hulk movie but I'm hoping they're saving it for maestro
There’s been an issue with other studios having the rights to Hulk solo films. He can appear in other movies, but not headline it.
Multiverse was always open. The whole before/after it breaking is only from The Void's timeline which is a separate dimension altogether
“People come here for thoughtful analysis, and you’re just making shit up” that’s hilarious
Scarlet Witch is tied to Dark Phoenix. Same Red powers. I believe that they come from the 7th infinity stone that was whatever queen who was so powerful that she turned herself into a red gas.
One doesn’t experience self transcendence, the illusion of self only dissipates..🎈
Multiverse of madness 💯🔥🔥
String theory suggests that everything is happening somewhere. Dreaming about it is just coincidence.
I actually had the multiverse dream theory when I watched loki. Didn’t watch anything or read anything about it, but just thought enough about everything and came to that really awesome conclusion. So cool
Spoiler alert in case this is right: …I think you have good theories. Marvel can do anything because Loki series changed the TVA. So it’s like they never pruned branches or won’t prune universes. And instead of the multiverse war being won, it’s now still ongoing. The TVA didn’t recognize Loki because instead of pruning they are making branches. So marvel can say characters are crossing over or never were pruned or always existed( I.e variants never were removed). Hence daredevil and kingpin showing up and not being weird except to the audience.
Different Wanda theory: the mind stone unlocked her dormant power. Perhaps she wished away all mutants in the past. I.e house of M is secretly in the past. I think her vision is her in the past. Hence the difference between universe 838 and 616.
We can also say that infinity stones of a universe acts as a box for the universe, and now since infinity stones are gone there is no box. Hence people can now see there versions in other universes in the dreams.
Wouldn't the effects of Loki take place after avengers 1? Since that's the moment in time Loki went to the TVA, and the TVA is outside of time and space. So dreams would be connected to the multiverse ever since avengers 1?
The events of Loki take place outside of time, so there's no way to pinpoint the beginning and end of the multiversal branching we see when He Who Remains dies. The only logical (though it still presents paradoxical concepts) explanation is that the multiverse has always existed and that the TVA's sole purpose is to prune timelines that lead to the emergence of Kang.
I know, it becomes more complicated the more you think about it. Hopefully they explain some of this in Quantumania.
I think that the opening scene from Loki episode 6, where the shot of the two universes are being shown, is the incursion happening in real time.
I really wish that Professor X had a moment with Wanda where he acknowledged her as a mutant since she had her abilities as a child.
I honestly think there's no mutants in the main mcu verse. There's too much established history for mutants to have existed all along. And I don't think having them suddenly spring up is gonna work with xmen story lines.
The red flash at the end was Wanda releasing Chathon setting up a redemption arc and she teams up with the Midnight Sons
The multiverse always existed to the people in the timeline since the TVA is outside of the timeline everything happening in the TVA has always been happening at the same time in every moment of the timeline.
Love you videos bro. Easy to listen and eat cereal too
We’re was Shang chi in this movie? He was talking to wing in the post credit scene of Shang chi
With the elder demons being established in Multiverse of Madness I hope that means Cyttorak is also in the MCU and we get to see Juggernaut, or even better, Unstoppable Colossus.
The fact Cthon predicted the events of the multiverse and created the Darkhold indicates that multiversal branches form off one another in predictable ways. This means that there are intrinsic forces that are fundamental to the existence of a multiverse, one of those being the Scarlett Witch. We also know from He Who Remains that this multiverse goes through cycles of expansion and contraction. In a metaphysical way this explains the evolution of detail the audience observes in the marvel multiverse from the pages of a comic to that of a big screen feature. While this may simple be explained as art, if the multiverse were real this would indicate a sort of reverse echo effect; one where the audience observes different branch universes reflecting off one another such that the signal (story) of the multiverse as a whole is reinforced and strengthened. The cycle is: the signal/story being refined during a period of contraction, and then adulterated during a period of expansion in order to find the strongest arc to focus on in the next cycle of contraction. As only a single multiversal bundle can exist at a (hyper) time, this means every iteration of a multiverse (in the sequence of expansion and contraction) contains a Scarlett Witch. Even ours.
Man you should write for marvel or write your own comics and or shows. Some of your theories and plot analysis are just amazing.
Scarlet witch and Jean Gray's Phoenix have so much in common it's crazy
Even Freud had to admit that "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
Did anyone else pause the AllForm ad to see what Ryan looks like in something other than a blue polo??
Well, this totally contradicts the meaning for the show Loki, since before Loki and Sylvie killed kang the conqueror if a new branch of the original timeline was to be created the TVA would step in and stop it from happening and breach the timeline. So, the thought that multiple dreams of the same thing keep happening is false especially since they all happened before the TVA got totally destroyed because if they event were to happen the TVA would just come breach the reality so don't you think if those were of another universe in the MCU that they would step in? Maybe this whole thing could also be refuted from the fact that there are already different universes besides the original 616. But I don't believe they would be allowed to see that. But who knows all we could do is guess?
But Loki, new variant timelines would begin a breach, and the TVA had to stop them before the branch went too far. This would suggest that in the time it take the TVA to enter the variant timelines to reset it, people in the Sacarate Timeline could dream of their divergents.
I clicked on this thinking "Doug better be in this one!"
Side note that intro is fire.
Evil Strange told 616 Strange he was the Reason he was having Nightmares! He was Corrupted by the Dark-Hold and was killing off other Strange’s in the Multiverse And he Wanted Christine!
I think the soul world, ancestral plane all lie in the space between this multiverse!!!! So when t Chala goes to ancestral plane he travels his subconscious there!!! Same goes to moonknight!!! It’s like they all are dreaming and connecting to the beliefs of all the multiverse characters!!
Nice call there, in fact every time Wanda mess with someone mind she might just giving them a glimpse
People keep mentioning the events of Loki but the ending of Loki takes place outside of time. So the multiverse exists all through time.
you can't talk about the mind stone bringing chaos and the Scarlett witch without addressing vision and order.
DUDE
What a good catch
I think Kang will take Wanda back to that moment to warn Stark about what he does if he does what he wants to do next, the part that shocks him the most is when Wanda tells him that the avengers get him & Natasha killed so he changes his mind and then all the MCU are officially ignored 👀
I still don't get how Wanda has all these different versions when all through WandaVision we were told that the Scarlet Witch is a constant and the same in every reality. ?
I’ve been saying for ages that Pietro somehow got space stone related power so I can’t say how excited and pleased I was to see I’m not the only one!
This is a super good theory except for one point- Wanda supposedly destroys all darkholds in the multiverse. Which would make her potentially the one and only scarlet witch going forward and thus we have the mcguffin for secret wars.
Allform snaps together sofa king fast
I bet they didnt even come up with multiverse idea back then lol especially that scene
I like that furniture place
Nicely done...keep it up!
Can we give a shout out to Doug holding Ryan's feet to the fire and having no part of his retcon BS? :)
I doubt every dream is a vision into a multiverse. They said the only reason this is possible because of what happened in Loki
And America has been universe hopping since she was a child. So the aftermath of loki did just start with no way home or doctor strange 2.
In thr multiverse Doug buys the futniture!
Would be cool but dreams ≠ visions especially ones caused by someone else directly trying to show you something bad
On the whole, 'Wanda coming back for future big-time multiversal stuff'(cthon fully-possessing her aside), I can't help but have one line come to mind: "Daddy? No more Mutants." ....
When it comes to the dreamscape the one verybimportant critical lens for this subjective view would surround the concept of the third eye. information of potential futures and past conflicts etc. the mindstone seems to be at the center of looped time. it loops information that creates alternative paths in time.
What’ll really wrap your mind is does the breaking of the sacred timeline occur shortly after Loki takes the tesseract and leaves 2012 or is the timeline considered broken after endgame
For that moment in Age of Ultron:
1. Wanda didn't know about the existence of multiverse and The Darkhold yet
2. Tony was not dreaming but just hallucination causing by Wanda's hex power
Nice video!
I think you’re on to something, but there’s room for some dreams to not be visions from another universe, because there is still memory. Basically, your dream could show you a part of the multiverse, but could also show you a part of your universe; so it’s not the case that all dreams show the multiverse. But America Chavez saying she has no dreams at all throws a wrench in that.
In black Panther, he’s on the spiritual plain. Not multiverse related
Interesting theories. I enjoy these videos.