Bad timing as LS just got a HUGE update. TLDR: - A feature to render fake frames at low resolution to increase base performance. - LSFG 1.1 removed, as 2.3 has been tested to surpass 1.1 in performance anyway.
@Taavett With a mix of medium textures and low settings, running the ingame performance FSR and using Frame Gen from Lossless Sclaing, it kept me around 60+ fps. I think if my CPU was a bit more modern (using Ryzen 7 1700) it could have easily been over 60fps a majority of the time. I wouldn't say it was an ideal experience, but was playable and if I had no choice but to play it that way, I'd still have fun in hunts
Oh that's good to hear. I tried in game fsr and fsr frame gen and it felt absolutely awful and fsr also looked absolutely terrible. Didn't think to try loseless scaling hopefully in the next demo
@mas0ny149 Something to keep in mind is they did say the FSR was better in more recent builds of Wilds so it may be fixed on release. Also frame gen uses more VRAM so you may need to lower textures and details to make it more playable on lower Memory GPUs
I refuse to use fake AI frames and pixels. i will never give in. For now on if I pay over $500 for a graphics card and over $400 for cpu. I expect playable 1440p modern games. If not I will just find another hobby or play older games. Devs and drivers need to optimize their products, I'm afraid this will allow them to be lazy. I'm all natural!
I mean we've had interpolation built into tvs for years. I've been wondering for nearly 10 years why PCs, which are thousands of times stronger than a TV processor, weren't doing it. Only about a year ago AMD even acknowledged they had developed it over 7 years ago, they just didn't release it.
@@Touma134 I mean, you _could_ turn your HDD/SSD into RAM for a while now. If you could create a NAS config and put it to cloud, you likely could mess around and technically download RAM.
@@Crazzzycarrot-qo5wr It add almost no input delay now it's so small now it's entirely unnoticeable even on mouse basically 60fps feels exactly how 60fps should feel instead of it feeling like it was 40fps back then it's that good now.
In PS4 era we got 100% faster gpu in just 3 years from gtx760 to gtx1060 with 3 times more memory. Now rtx4060 is not even faster than PS5, while 1060 was much faster than PS4. RTX4070 is gtx1060 of our time, but with a 70 series name and the price.
You can't keep adding complex looking textures and lighting and think it's not going to put more load on your system. You can bypass the "devs" by just putting everything on ultra LOW settings.
One of the most useful programs ever. I use it with Elden ring to hit 120 fps while still running Easy Anti Cheat. Also can be used with emulators with games that have a 30 fps cap.
Almost everytime I have tried lossless scaling there have been visual artifacts usually my character flickering invisible. So really it isn't lossless , when my characters losing his head haha
You can try using LSFG 1.1 instead of LSFG 2.3 it has less artifact from my experience but unfortunately now you have to choose 2.11 version from the beta section because LSFG 1.1 is reomved in 2.12.
@@AnANas00-x3p The input latency is really really small like like were talking about less than 10ms so basically 60fps with FG added on looks like 120fps but still feels like 60fps when it use to feel like it was 40fps.
Brother there is a bot comment on top of all the comments, try keeping your community safe from these scams. Edit: I think he removed the comment, good on him!
The issue with latency is not just the added latency of the tool, but the inherently high latency of low base FPS. Base 30 fps is going to feel unresponsive no matter how good the frame generation is, but going from 60 to 120 feels okay.
@@EatsTofu X2 is like the best out of X3 and X4 in terms of fidelity so i'd say no, it's very good especially on quality mode for me, i think the minimum requirement for X2 is 30 fps, 45 fps for X3 and 60 fps for X4
Hi Vex, Thanks so much for this review - great job as always! Just a quick note: the framerate is capped because setting "Max latency" to 1 limits it to the monitor's refresh rate. It needs to be at least 2, preferably 3 (with 3 being the recommended setting for AMD GPUs), or you can use Sync mode OFF (Tearing) with VRR to avoid visible tearing. Also, check out version 2.12 - it includes a "Resolution scaling" option that can really help lower-end GPUs.
The framerate could be capped in the game settings, which is a good idea if you are running frame gen, which is why I am baffled that neither AMD nor Nvidia allow you to cap the framerate or use a defined scaling factor. Running unlocked on a low spec machine is bad enough. Throw frame gen in the mix and you're in for a stutterfest.
2.12 Takes a small (but necessary) step further. Here is the gist from the developer: "Introduced a new "Resolution Scale" option for LSFG. This feature allows input frames to be processed at a reduced resolution while generating output at the original resolution. For example, when playing at 1440p, setting the scale to 50% enables LSFG to generate 1440p output from a 720p input. This provides a performance boost with only a minor quality trade-off (depending on the game). Note that this is not related to image scaling; rather, it reduces the amount of information available to LSFG for motion estimation." Also, if you're on Windows 24H2, it is now recommended for users to use "WGC" instead of "DXGI" now. This is because "Microsoft changed how the Desktop Duplication API (DXGI) functions, making it heavily reliant on MPO (Multiplane Overlay) support. Without MPO, DXGI cannot reliably distinguish between updates from game window and the LS window when both are displayed on the same monitor. This prevents it from capturing only new frames, thereby breaking the existing framepacing algorithm." Your experience may vary if your system has "MPO" enabled.
@@prussian_core MPO has been a part of Windows drivers since Windows 8.1. It is enabled by default and can only be disabled using registry tweaks. Basically, if you don't know about it, you don't need to worry about it.
Afmf2 doesnt turn itself off if u change the search mode to 'high'. Afmf 2 is the best in quality and latency between fsr, lossless scaling. Select searchmode 'high' and Quality mode.
AFMF 2 has horibble UI ghosting and can't differentiate between shadows, objects and character models. LSFG has absolutely better quality than FMF and even search mode high, it can turn off. Unlikely to turn of but can. Latency might be slightly better than LS but there's no other advantage to FMF.
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat no it doesnt. Afmf2 has zero ghosting if yourbase fps is above 60fps and select quality mode. Afmf2 is the best at both quality and latency.
I have been using lossless scaling for a while now, and it's a lifesaver on my 1660 ti optiplex build. Its crazy getting 120fps on a 5 year old mid range budget gpu with a 7 year old cpu.
What is crazy is playing Forza Horizon 4 at 1440p60 on a 12 year old GTX 670 and 10 year old i7 and being just as competitive in ranked racing as you are on a modern system capable of running the game at 1440p at high refresh rate with native rendering.
years dont matter dude, xeon e5 ivy-bridge is exactly same perfomance of i7 from 12-14th gens and xeon phi are equivalent to 13-14th gen i9 or xeon 1st gen videos are already out here in youtube seach it out u will see.But yeah if u bought an i3 7 years ago thats a different story
your the man. 4070 ti super owner hear and you saved me from upgrading to the 50series. Well be a dedicated subscriber because of this video. Also your a braver man than me, NVIDA is scary.
im gonna type this just in case some one has a problem with the fps. you can only use one frame gen method meaning you either chosse the in game frame gen or lossles scaling because if you use both lossles will have to work 2 times harder to give you more frames because it has to add more frames to the game and than do it again for the frame gen leading it to be lower than it should be which makes your computer run the game slower than it would using only one method for the frame gen.
Would you rather pay $800 for fg and a new gpu or you use a gpu that doesn’t have fg and spend $7. Think people rather the cheaper option. This proves nvidia is holding back. Trillion dollar company and this dude does better FG for $7.
Lossless scaling works with dual GPUs, so if you have a configuration that supports the second GPU, you could buy something like a 5500 XT run the scaling off of that card. You need a card at least as powerful as the 6600 XT to comfortably do 4K scaling, but it removes the performance hit that you get from activating the frame generation. It is also much more difficult to run on Nvidia cards, and you'll find better results on low end AMD cards, even compared to higher-end Nvidia cards As for cards capping out without setting VSync on, there is a limit to how many frames a card can push depending on how intense the scenario is.
I do the same, with my $220 RTX 3060ti as the main GPU and a $36 RX 5600XT as the secondary GPU. Not the best combination, but it works with most games. Definitely better performance than just using the 3060ti or using the iGPU for LS. Note: cap your frames using the games limiter or with Rivatuner. The performance will be smoother.
if graphics is too hard for the gpu, just lower the settings and you could get enough fps. But the CPU might also put a hard cap in heavy NPC or action scenarios and that's when lsfg is gold!
Still trying to figure out how to make this work reliably. Need to take a deep dive into settings because I'm sure that's part of it. a recent test with YT didn't scale right. It also doesn't seem to do anything with popular subscription streaming services, probably due to HDCP. I would imagine if I were just trying to watch a ripped video file on VLC, it would probably work fine.
I like the fact you can use this software when playing media files, I watched Dune II yesterday with lossless scaling @ 4x and it made the whole experience so smooth and buttery fluid on my PC Monitor, you can even enable when you switch TH-cam to fullscreen. 👍
AFMF 2 isn't turning off at high mouse speeds. This could be due to altered settings or because you're using a 1080p monitor with the settings set to 'auto.
Cool feature with the frame gen is it can be used in non gaming scenarios. Hardcore Henry is a movie that has a very special spot in my heart but 24fps really hurts it being a first person movie but frame generating can get it to go well above 60 and it really helped with some of the "motion sickness" from the shakey cam
Bro, i needed info on how to use LS the best, but i already had it on with just youtube. stable 60/120 and i do believe THIS is the future of ai enanched watching anthing. subbed and liked :D
@@__-fi6xg I'm pretty sure that not being able to play all games on Ultra settings doesn't make a card low-end. Maybe in terms of cards you can buy brand new it's on the lower end, but it's definitely not low-end in terms of cards that are actually in use right now.
The thing that I really like is that it works as a separate window and can be captured separately. I did that to stream Wind Waker, which is natively 30fps. OBS was capturing the clean, original footage at 30 FPS, and I was watching LS at 60 FPS. I didn't get motion sickness, and the viewers didn't see the artifacting.
Just when I thought this app couldn't get any better. The FG resolution scale option is genius. LSFG on a 4K screen used to be really expensive on the GPU so you had to change your whole screen's resolution depending on the game at was annoying, but this solves the issue!
@@yarincool1237 there is something wrong there. @80fps+ base i'm ok with the input lag when I add 2x FG. At 120 FPS base it should be much better. Just a little heads-up for you: you should limit the overall fps a little lower than your monitor refresh, else you could get small stutters. When I need to use LSFG, I limit my base fps to 1/2 -3fps of my screen refresh rate (79FPS). So I get 158FPS on my 165Hz monitor and it's perfectly smooth and responsive. I also use G-SYNC ON+VSYNC ON and Low Latency mode ON/ULTRA from the nvapp.
@@edalecu I could say the same. You dont know how to use afmf2 properly. Btw how I cant use it properly? It should go like click scale and done? And yet, still bad image quality without using the upscaling part and massive drops. So....
You can technically do 20x if you go into custom. But I don't suggest going past 5x(i stay around 2x/3x). Its upscale is great too(in windowed/borderless setting). Also if there's the option on the game you're playing you can use fsr frame gen/dlss with it too.
I played Ghost of Tsushima with LS 2.1 with x3 FG at 240fps and hz and it was amazing. Seems to work really well at higher fps. Need to give it a go with more games with the latest version.
3x isn't so bad if you're starting with 80fps. But most of us are using the app to squeeze more life out of older hardware. If you can only get the game to run at 30fps at your chosen settings along with the overhead of scaling and FG, you really only want to use 2x FG. And you don't even wanna see what 4x FG looks like when the GPU is only rendering at 20fps, lol.
I think the best way to test this, is on older GPUs, so we can actually see some fps going up... Because going up of 60 fps is a plus, but 60 is the lowest target
I"ve used Lossless Scaling on quite a few games, but for whatever reason I was getting a bunch of random crashes while running it with Phasmophobia. I tested quite a few different settings yet didn't get it to a point where I felt it was stable. It's been really good on the other games I've ran it with though! Definitely recommend.
Basically yeah, but the contrast between the comments on the ces presentation and this video is crazy. nvidia ces comments are all about 'oh fake frames', 'ai garbage' and 'it looks so bad'. While the comments here are like 'it looks fine' and 'download more fps!!'. It's worse than even fsr. The only advantage is you can use this on any gpu for pretty much any game, even those that don't support dlss/fsr/xess.
@user1-theOGit’s better than FSR+ This is on any GPU basically no matter how bad, DLSS is exclusive to GPU at minimum cost of 549 so far (DOSS 4) This costs only 7 bucks Plus if I remember correctly it can stack using LSFG and native frame gen (dlss or FSR)
One use case you didn't go over in the video is using Lossless Scaling to play games that are locked at 60FPS at whatever FPS you want. Makes a massive difference in some games.
@@walter1824lossless scaling looks better and has better features, it also works on every gpu and any application. Afmf 2 can't quadruple your fps. It can also not do the frame gen upscale thing. It also isn't ai.
@@Spectrulight"Lossless scaling looks better" Citation needed. Vex is not a valid citation. "it also works on every application" Not really? It depends on whether the specific frame capture method is supported. No capture = no FG. "Afmf2 can't quadruple your FPS" Why would you ever wanna do that? "It can also not do the frame gen upscale thing" AMD drivers also have built-in FSR 1 in the form of Radeon Super Resolution. They can, in fact, do both upscaling and frame gen. "It also isn't AI" And that's relevant... how, exactly? I never understand why AI is supposed to be automatically good. Edit: oh, by resolution scale frame gen you mean intentionally downscaling the input image to try to claw back some performance? I mean sure, that's nice, but if the performance was better it wouldn't be necessary.
literally the best app you can get off steam. I use it to just insert FG into ANY Game, I dont go above x2 and dont use anyt scaling other tha nthe game itself. FPS doubled and gpu usage drops (limit the game to 60fps, lossless outputs 120) Your GPU will thankyou, it runs cooler
What features ? lmao what features ? It has no features at all, just bare bones frame gen. It has a performance mode which LSFG also does. It can run on iGPU which LSFG also does. Search mode is more of a fix than a feature lol. Now lemme tell you what features LSFG can do x3 and x4 frame gen resolution scale of generated frames G sync support compatibility across any game that can run in windowed or boderless mode regardless of API supported on any GPU not just one or 2 generation of a single brand. Support for cursor sensitvity adjustment clip cursor options and off course the app includes spatial upscaling options as well.
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat1. X3 and X4 mode are terrible, so that's not even a flex. I don't understand how some people make a fuss about afmf2 artifacts, but try to promote lossless X3/X4 modes, which has even more artifacts and feels terrible. 2. Afmf2 works in full screen, no need to continually switch your game to windowed or borderless. 3. HDR support is terrible using lossless, no issues using afmf2 with HDR. 4. Afmf2 is FREE. However, I do like the fact lossless can be used for non games, I.e movies and videos. Both lossless and afmf2 has their use cases. But Afmf2 is far more convenient.
@@dytub-george7297 Spoken like someone who has never actually used Lossless Scaling before. I recently tried both in Cyberpunk with a very low spec system. Only LSFG produced a playable result because it does the same thing with less overhead. AMD has zero motivation to make AFMF more efficient, whereas that's the only motivation LS devs have.
@@RX7800XTBenchmarks The instructions for LSFG specifically say to use fullscreen mode. Ironically, this didn't work in Cyberpunk like in other games and I had to run borderless. I wouldn't use any frame gen algorithm above 2x. The results will always be terrible, regardless of whose implementation you are using. Even at 2x, in Cyberpunk, I noticed about a 4-6ms increase in frametimes but they were still lower than AFMF. At 2x, LSFG is noticeably superior in my experience to AFMF. Also, LS works with most games and doesn't require baked in support. LS will work on a 15 year old GPU. Lastly, the fact you cannot get a framerate cap with AFMF is why I don't use it and why I'm not going to buy a DLSS 3 compatible GPU either. The conventional 'wisdom' about framerates is very wrong and the only thing running unlocked does is give you inconsistent frametimes and stutter. But, hey, the widespread misconception is how I can stay halfway competitive in an online FPS, sliding into middle age with an as of yet still untreated thyroid problem which gives me brain fog and extreme fatigue, lol. I probably get half my kills because someone running unlocked had a stutter.
Bought this a few months ago, can't ever play games like Minecraft without it, removed my need for always wanting to upgrade my system, Highly recommended
There is an app called something like borderless minecraft and it works super well with LS. It can be downloaded from github. I use it every time i play.
it took you 36 min to explain this? do better, be faster. long videos are boring. people have a maximum attention spand of 15-20min if you are pushing it. anything longer and people will skip most of your videos.
This tool is incredible. I don't know how more people aren't talking about it. I've used it in Crysis 2 Remastered to go from an unstable 100 fps to a stable 140 fps. So I'm running this game at a stable 140 fps at max settings (except for Ray Tracing, which is at High) in 1440p on an RTX 3080 10GB (granted DLSS Quality is on, but it still looks really good). I'm using a Ryzen 5950x, if that matters. Similarly, I've used it in Ghost Recon Breakpoint to go from around 100 fps to 130 fps. In both cases, I have not perceived any loss in image quality or any noticeable artefacts. I don't get how this isn't bigger news in the gaming community.
Another thing I've found with lossless scaling(LS) is it really depends on the specific game you are running, some games respond very well and others not so much. Space Marine II responds extremely well, I've been running it in x2 mode with my frames capped at 80(160 w/ LS) and it's awesome. Remnant II however looks better with AMD's frame-gen as opposed to LS, more visual artifacting in this case. Windwaker HD(CEMU) at x3(30 to 90) is butter, with minor visual artifacting(totally worth it here though imo, even over x2 mode). Deadpool(pcsx3) at x2(30 to 60) benefits from smoothness, but has visual artifacting like Vex was showing with Black Myth Wukong at x4 mode, character model Phasing in and out of existence that sort of thing. Just a few of my experiences, it's a wonderful program and I recommend it!
Yes, YMMV. It doesn't work with literally EVERYTHING. Doesn't work on LA Noire, not that I need it to, lol. Also, while the instructions say you must run the game in fullscreen mode, Cyberpunk only worked with LS using windowed borderless. I have used LSFG with a 12 year old GTX 670. That was mind blowing. 2x scale and 2x FG allowed me to play Forza Horizon 4 at 1440p60. It wasn't perfect - menus would get kinda blurry when moving quickly through them and the moving map was a little shaky. Still usable though. Still was able to do ranked racing as well as I would on a much better system.
Hey! What kinda games could I try LS on CEMU? The ones i have actually have a 60fps mod. I get that if you have a high refresh rate monitor you could benefit anyways but mine is 75hz XD Edit: if it enhances smoothness I'll use it regardless the 60 fps mods
Thanks Vex! I purchased this a while back but didn't really get much out of it - but tried the latest version on my ARC A750 and Star Citizen has gone from 30-40FPS 2k resolution everything on max up to 140! .... and it still looks amazing!! WOO WOO ( Verified FPS with the XBox FPS counter as well )
Best thing is: you can use the framegen in any video. TH-cam, vlc, animes...and it's soo much better than the old stuttery 24/30 fps. You can use it with emulators too. Such a gem.
I would like to mention that there is an optimal setting for Nvidia and AMD GPUs, which is different lower down in the graphical settings. In lossless, the dev stated, “The new "Max Frame Latency" option acts as a balance between latency and performance. There is no best value, as all systems are different. Most likely, the optimal value will be 1 for Nvidia GPUs and 3 for AMD. It should be at least 2 (3 for AMD) if you want LS to be able to render over refresh rate.” In one of their updates to the app, this I believe really helps with the ghosting issue you were seeing with the AMD card.
If you have two GPUs you can make one of them do the FG computational work so the other won't take a hit in the base FPS. The secondary GPU has to be decent though
Very interesting this subject with the two GPUs. I have an RTX 3090 and I play in 4K. What second graphics card can I take with the one I have? And have you gained in latency with two GPUs?
One thing I'd like to add is, while in game frame caps can be fine, I prefer/recommend capping frames at the driver level. So using Nvidia control panel for team green cards or Radeon chill(in AMD Software: Adrenalin Edition) for team red. I've found that in game frame caps often will allow the game to occasionally go above the cap in some situations(sometimes frequently), which can affect smoothness with lossless scaling, the built in options by Nvidia and AMD have always hard capped at what I've set and keep the game locked down.
It would be cool to see a power usage analysis, like just set your gpu to lock at 30 with rivo tuner and then use this to upscale to 120 FPS and then run it basically at 120 to see what your equivalent usage is. I know it’s not all the same, but in talking cost to upgrade this seems like a good comparison. Not only do you not have the new gpu cost but you also don’t have the higher power usage to get to that rather fps. Thinking like you have a 3060 with lossless scaling Vs a 4080 or something to reach rather high FPS.
I have been using lossless scaling for a solid minute now. It clearly won't work for some games but for games that are framerate capped or super cpu bound. Fps capped games (terraria, fallout4/Vegas) and cpu limited such as gta5 and helldivers2. Just make sure you have extra gpu usage to spare! This software eats away at my 4080 like crazy
Haven't played a FO game since I got LS but I may be playing Vegas again soon and will try LSFG. The problem is that, with the Creation engine, load times are tied to framerate. And load times get excessively long in FO4, which is why I will just uncap it and accept the broken ragdoll effects and speech. You run into similar issues with Starfield and it is no accident that the 4090 can manage just over 100fps at 4k Ultra in Starfield. Just under the point where ragdoll physics break. That also means they basically tuned the game to run worse than it has to on lower spec GPUs. As for LS 'eating your 4080 like crazy', that's just absurd. Earlier this year, I played Forza Horizon 4 at 1440p60 on a GTX 670. LS has the most efficient frame gen algorithm. AMD and Nvidia have zero motivation to optimize their frame gen solutions. Lossless Scaling devs don't have any other motivation but to make their algorithm efficient.
LS works amazingly well for my at x2. When I try x3 the latency and artifacting is too much. Very happy with a doubling of my fps though so I'm not complaining. Pretty amazing.
This is a game changer for broken games like Wild Hearts. Even though Im running the game at 60fps by the counter, it feels like its running at 20. With lossless scaling I run that game at 100fps caped at 50, to achieve perfect frame times. Finally I can play it
I think X2 is the best option for people who have setups which can run latest games at around 35 fps at low-medium settings and can use FG to get a pretty solid 60. The other modes are good for people with stronger setups who already get 60+ fps and want to x3 it or x4
I'm an indie game lover, and some of them don't support over 60fps. To name a few: Celeste, Noita and Nova Drift. LS does an amazing job with them! I just have to make sure to go to the nvidia control panel, and set their low latency mode to ultra. It also works wonders with gameplay videos on youtube (maybe even twitch too), I think you didn't mention that. LS can work with any window, not just games.
wow i watched a few videos on this program but yours is the best you did it in much more finer detail and explanation and the likes of 120 fps recording really does show the differences you sold me on this can u give a update on version 3.0 thats out now ?
Saw this vid posted by Daniel Owens, this software is the GOAT I can run games in the emulators at 60fps, even those switch games like Xenoblade Chronicles series. Damn it feels so good.
I use lossless all the time with rtx 4070 in games where the pc port is bad like gta 4 and assassin creed black flag These games with frame generation becomes a whole different games especially in ac black flag case That game is so so beautiful but locked in performance But lossless scaling gave a new life to the game so yeahh Totally recommended if your gpu is powerful enough to render lossless fg properly...
4x frame gen sounds great but, no matter the algorithm, you're going to have some noticeable input lag. LS works best when you limit it to no more than 2x frame gen and 2x scaling. I played Forza Horizon 4 for over 100 hours at 1440p60 on a GTX 670, using 2x LS1 scaling and 2x LSFG 2.1 frame gen. I was just as competitive in ranked racing because the latency increase was basically imperceptible. There were a couple of very minor graphical glitches - the moving map was a little shaky and you would get some distortion when moving quickly through menus. Otherwise, it was a solid result. The best thing about Lossless Scaling frame gen is the fact you can dial in a locked framerate, which you cannot do with either AFMF or DLSS 3. This causes the system to always run at 100% so that any time you get a momentary increase in resource demand, you get a stutter. In general, this is why running an unlocked framerate is always a bad idea, especially on a competitive title. Another thing people don't talk about with Lossless Scaling is the fact that you can use a second, weaker GPU to handle the overhead from the app, leaving your main GPU to put all its effort into rasterization. Neither AMD nor Nvidia allow you to do this and I don't think people realize how much overhead there is with scaling and frame gen. This is why I just laugh when people talk about the 4060 and frame gen. 2x, 3x, 4x from 20fps at 1080p Ultra with RT in Cyberpunk is still going to run and look like crap.
Can you put the strain on onboard graphics? I am using a 980 ti and have a 970 laying around but I don’t have any pci 16 slots left. Would it work on the 970 if I put it in a smaller slot?
If you do x2 mode just cap your frame rate to half your monitor's refresh rate to avoid microstuttering or frame skipping. x3 = 1/3 and x4 = 1/4 of your monitor's refresh rate. I use rivatuner to cap my frames btw and it works great. I you have old hardware like rx 580 or gtx 1060 use performance mode it uses less resources in exchange for very little image quality impact but still worth it.
i have a meaty PC but i still used to lose frames in Guildwars 2 big group content, i've started capping my FPS to 60 and running lossless scaler whenever i play and now not only can i run the big group content with buttery smooth FPS, but my pc is also way quieter when i'm not in the big group content because my fps is capped at "60" (120 thanks to Lossless Scaler) instead of unlimited which i used to have it set too. :D so its a win win!
The only bad thing is that increases the input lag significantly. The frames it generates are not "playable" frames, so you will notice more input lag, specially in FPS games. However it's an awesome tool that you can use to play videogames, watch videos and movies. Yes you can increase FPS for movies or series, and it works.
Rivatuner Nvidia reflex + lsfg has been my way to go for all games for 2 months now its way way better than normal fg... Being able to play every single story game on 180 fps with very good latency have been a dream come true to me
@@juanospina3690Its really simple as it is I just use Nvidia reflex through rivatuner and then Ensure my games have at least a 45-60 base frames and turn on x3 lossless scaling with turning off vsync option in lsfg that's it
psst, hey yall, just a reminder that you dont NEED to use lossless scaling for gaming only, you can literally enable it on like a movie or something and have it at 240fps, im watching arcane with lossless scaling on and its amazing!
Depends on the settings you use, I did feel input lag on 4x, games were running way smoother but moving camera around felt about half a second slower, would not recommend 4x for shooters, great for non competitive games tho, survival games n stuff. Also love 4x frame generation for anime.
@nortonlucas , yeah I was going to use this on single player Games and No Man's Sky because I have like 20 mods lol. But thanks for the insight. I appreciate it.
This is the more most ultimatist guide to Lossless Scaling now :)
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Does it work with emulation?
@@markdove5930 It works for almost every program that displays pixels.
@@markdove5930 From what I've heard, yes
He said on 11 min into video yeah it is working fr them....@@markdove5930
I couldnt find a good manual unfortunately, so have to depend on channels like yours for further explaining on what each buttons do.
ONE step closer to downloading more Ram
At this rate I won't be surprised if it actually happens.
Yawn
I downloaded ram from a bbs in like 1991. It was a script that I put in my autorxec.bat file that gave programs access to extended memory in DOS 🧑🦳
i only have 8gb of ram, i need this to happen
ironically we now have infinite ram, vram is the problem.
Gpu aint bad. Game optimization is
Bingo
Wukong is the better optimized one, talk about Alan wake 2, starfield, last of us, these games are trash in terms of optimization.
@@megurinemiku8201Alan wake 2 is good just not good for anything below 20 series
Yeahhh this software basically beat most driver bassed stuff and its great. I use it in demanding or built like crap games
No it's not @@megurinemiku8201
Bad timing as LS just got a HUGE update.
TLDR:
- A feature to render fake frames at low resolution to increase base performance.
- LSFG 1.1 removed, as 2.3 has been tested to surpass 1.1 in performance anyway.
May i ask what is LS ?
@@tech.curiositylossless scaling... The software that is used in the video.
There's no LSFG 2.4 lmao it's still 2.3, only resolution scaler is new
FG 2.4 doesnt exist yet, its still 2.3
Wait, FG is v2.4 now? I just updated LS to v2.12 and it's still 2.3?
Lossless Scaling made the Monster Hunter Wilds beta actually tolerable to play on my RTX 2060. Love it!
Wow how well does it run?😅
@Taavett With a mix of medium textures and low settings, running the ingame performance FSR and using Frame Gen from Lossless Sclaing, it kept me around 60+ fps. I think if my CPU was a bit more modern (using Ryzen 7 1700) it could have easily been over 60fps a majority of the time. I wouldn't say it was an ideal experience, but was playable and if I had no choice but to play it that way, I'd still have fun in hunts
@AFarCryAway Oh thank you! ❤️
Oh that's good to hear. I tried in game fsr and fsr frame gen and it felt absolutely awful and fsr also looked absolutely terrible. Didn't think to try loseless scaling hopefully in the next demo
@mas0ny149 Something to keep in mind is they did say the FSR was better in more recent builds of Wilds so it may be fixed on release. Also frame gen uses more VRAM so you may need to lower textures and details to make it more playable on lower Memory GPUs
Who would guess we would live through a time where you can just download more FPS lol
I refuse to use fake AI frames and pixels. i will never give in. For now on if I pay over $500 for a graphics card and over $400 for cpu. I expect playable 1440p modern games. If not I will just find another hobby or play older games. Devs and drivers need to optimize their products, I'm afraid this will allow them to be lazy. I'm all natural!
Still no real free ram to download. Shows you never know what life throws at you.
I mean we've had interpolation built into tvs for years. I've been wondering for nearly 10 years why PCs, which are thousands of times stronger than a TV processor, weren't doing it.
Only about a year ago AMD even acknowledged they had developed it over 7 years ago, they just didn't release it.
Dude u can get it for free i didnt pay for lossles scaling lol i used it to play bloodborne horribly optimized rn@CombatMedic1O
@@Touma134 I mean, you _could_ turn your HDD/SSD into RAM for a while now. If you could create a NAS config and put it to cloud, you likely could mess around and technically download RAM.
Thought you're just over-reacting. Tried it, and will probably use it for every game now 🤣
What happens when you use both lossless scaling and dlss/fsr frame gen at the same time?
Definitely not for competitive shooters though. Its good, but the input lag is there.
@@poka26ev2their outputs add-up, sort of... but I think that the latency would be more unbearable than with only one fg at a time.
@@Crazzzycarrot-qo5wr Yeah, first person shooters isnt very good. But singleplayer/story games are wayyy better with this
@@Crazzzycarrot-qo5wr It add almost no input delay now it's so small now it's entirely unnoticeable even on mouse basically 60fps feels exactly how 60fps should feel instead of it feeling like it was 40fps back then it's that good now.
1990s: download more RAM!
2020s: download more FPS!
Devs are bad not GPU's.
Only thing bad about them is the prices currently.
Owners and share holders that only care about profit and push devs to release unfinished games that are bad for devs which is bad for GPUs
Yep all these tools and they aint utilizing let alone optimizing their games and said tools nowadays
In PS4 era we got 100% faster gpu in just 3 years from gtx760 to gtx1060 with 3 times more memory. Now rtx4060 is not even faster than PS5, while 1060 was much faster than PS4. RTX4070 is gtx1060 of our time, but with a 70 series name and the price.
You can't keep adding complex looking textures and lighting and think it's not going to put more load on your system. You can bypass the "devs" by just putting everything on ultra LOW settings.
Gpu pricing is
One of the most useful programs ever. I use it with Elden ring to hit 120 fps while still running Easy Anti Cheat. Also can be used with emulators with games that have a 30 fps cap.
Yes this thing is a godsend with locked 30 fps. Patapon 1,2 and 3on psp emulator looks fantastic
Playing Marvel Ultimate Aliiance 3 and it looks incredible! great program for emulation
thx if i can use it with old school jrpg i could finally play them i can stand 30fps
Almost everytime I have tried lossless scaling there have been visual artifacts usually my character flickering invisible. So really it isn't lossless , when my characters losing his head haha
truu
Cap ur frames to something u archive all the time
Yeah it doesn't like 3rd person shooters very much. Avoid using x3/x4 options for those games. Make sure you have 60 real fps as well.
It's better with controller than with mouse imo, I love using it with emulators
You can try using LSFG 1.1 instead of LSFG 2.3 it has less artifact from my experience but unfortunately now you have to choose 2.11 version from the beta section because LSFG 1.1 is reomved in 2.12.
I'm using this program for awhile now and it's great, you can even generate frames in videos, watching movies in 96fps instead of 24 is wild
I have been saying this and sticking with this statement. Once you've used it. You stop looking at other GPUs. Don't care if it's fake, it's good.
i agree brother these days i can't play without it ,it just doesn't feel right to play native
Input latency.
It's ok for some games, slow games.
@@AnANas00-x3p i reduce it to one frame and i use low latency mode in the settings of the gpu so it's not that big of a problem
@@AnANas00-x3p The input latency is really really small like like were talking about less than 10ms so basically 60fps with FG added on looks like 120fps but still feels like 60fps when it use to feel like it was 40fps.
@@MrAnony0760 fps is good enough for me no FG needed.
i only use it in ffvii remake, and rdr 2, 30fps is unacceptable, used my TV for FG 😁
Brother there is a bot comment on top of all the comments, try keeping your community safe from these scams.
Edit: I think he removed the comment, good on him!
I think TH-cam should try to protect their users/platform, really shouldn't be the responsibility of creators to do this smh
@@babytronsab TH-cam must be promoting these scams? How else would that comment be on the top?
Report Report report: Yeah, bots getting wild out here 😅.
The issue with latency is not just the added latency of the tool, but the inherently high latency of low base FPS. Base 30 fps is going to feel unresponsive no matter how good the frame generation is, but going from 60 to 120 feels okay.
that is what i thought too
Is 30 base to 60 fps fg bad?
@@EatsTofu X2 is like the best out of X3 and X4 in terms of fidelity so i'd say no, it's very good especially on quality mode for me, i think the minimum requirement for X2 is 30 fps, 45 fps for X3 and 60 fps for X4
45 to 144 is almost perfect
"small glitches here an there" says he as the monkey's head fades in and out of existence 🤣🤣
Hi Vex,
Thanks so much for this review - great job as always!
Just a quick note: the framerate is capped because setting "Max latency" to 1 limits it to the monitor's refresh rate. It needs to be at least 2, preferably 3 (with 3 being the recommended setting for AMD GPUs), or you can use Sync mode OFF (Tearing) with VRR to avoid visible tearing.
Also, check out version 2.12 - it includes a "Resolution scaling" option that can really help lower-end GPUs.
@@ths794 incoukdnt get the resolution scaling to work, butnthe fram gen pairs with the in-game resolution scaling well
The framerate could be capped in the game settings, which is a good idea if you are running frame gen, which is why I am baffled that neither AMD nor Nvidia allow you to cap the framerate or use a defined scaling factor. Running unlocked on a low spec machine is bad enough. Throw frame gen in the mix and you're in for a stutterfest.
2.12 Takes a small (but necessary) step further. Here is the gist from the developer:
"Introduced a new "Resolution Scale" option for LSFG. This feature allows input frames to be processed at a reduced resolution while generating output at the original resolution. For example, when playing at 1440p, setting the scale to 50% enables LSFG to generate 1440p output from a 720p input. This provides a performance boost with only a minor quality trade-off (depending on the game). Note that this is not related to image scaling; rather, it reduces the amount of information available to LSFG for motion estimation."
Also, if you're on Windows 24H2, it is now recommended for users to use "WGC" instead of "DXGI" now. This is because "Microsoft changed how the Desktop Duplication API (DXGI) functions, making it heavily reliant on MPO (Multiplane Overlay) support. Without MPO, DXGI cannot reliably distinguish between updates from game window and the LS window when both are displayed on the same monitor. This prevents it from capturing only new frames, thereby breaking the existing framepacing algorithm." Your experience may vary if your system has "MPO" enabled.
@@RE3PTV well?? he did say "Here is the gist from the developer"
@@RE3PTV
Bro is onto something ❌
Bro is on something ✅
How to know about MPO status of the 24h2 pc?
@@prussian_core MPO has been a part of Windows drivers since Windows 8.1. It is enabled by default and can only be disabled using registry tweaks. Basically, if you don't know about it, you don't need to worry about it.
Isn't this just upscaling? This is just LSFG's own upscaler.
I used on Helldrivers 2 my gpu actually can reach 120+fps but this program just "lock" my fps to 120 solid fps and no drop at all. It just amazing
It locks your frame so let’s say you lock it at an FPS that does not fluctuate, you end up with a smoother experience
same I bought LS bcs of the bad fps in illuminate
Afmf2 doesnt turn itself off if u change the search mode to 'high'.
Afmf 2 is the best in quality and latency between fsr, lossless scaling.
Select searchmode 'high' and Quality mode.
Wow, look at this guy you're ruining the script of the video to make AMD look bad! No but seriously, I expected better from Vex..
@FewCan456 If it doesn't work at all with a mouse like it's supposed to, you deserve critique when releasing it on PC...
@@MLWJ1993it's not that it doesn't work but controller input for camera movement is objectively smoother which helps when interpolating frames
AFMF 2 has horibble UI ghosting and can't differentiate between shadows, objects and character models. LSFG has absolutely better quality than FMF and even search mode high, it can turn off. Unlikely to turn of but can. Latency might be slightly better than LS but there's no other advantage to FMF.
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat no it doesnt. Afmf2 has zero ghosting if yourbase fps is above 60fps and select quality mode.
Afmf2 is the best at both quality and latency.
I have been using lossless scaling for a while now, and it's a lifesaver on my 1660 ti optiplex build. Its crazy getting 120fps on a 5 year old mid range budget gpu with a 7 year old cpu.
What is crazy is playing Forza Horizon 4 at 1440p60 on a 12 year old GTX 670 and 10 year old i7 and being just as competitive in ranked racing as you are on a modern system capable of running the game at 1440p at high refresh rate with native rendering.
@@Lurch-Bot How tf are you all not getting unbearable latency?
Doesn't it damage your GPU at all? Or least of all overheat? It's kinda like overclocking boost right?
years dont matter dude, xeon e5 ivy-bridge is exactly same perfomance of i7 from 12-14th gens and xeon phi are equivalent to 13-14th gen i9 or xeon 1st gen videos are already out here in youtube seach it out u will see.But yeah if u bought an i3 7 years ago thats a different story
Try running lossless scaling on a second gpu !
Protip: Use it while watching TH-cam vids.
how
Ok bro
@@yxon1ph Hit "Ctrl + Alt + S" while in TH-cam... or, click "Scale" in the Lossless Scaling App and then click the "Chrome" tab in your bar. Easy! 👍
@@amy-295 Watching Evangelion Neon Genesis @ 120 fps is cool. You should try it!
@@yxon1ph "Ctrl - Alt - S" on any media player or web browser (Chrome or Edge). Enjoy fluid videos 👍
your the man. 4070 ti super owner hear and you saved me from upgrading to the 50series. Well be a dedicated subscriber because of this video. Also your a braver man than me, NVIDA is scary.
im gonna type this just in case some one has a problem with the fps. you can only use one frame gen method meaning you either chosse the in game frame gen or lossles scaling because if you use both lossles will have to work 2 times harder to give you more frames because it has to add more frames to the game and than do it again for the frame gen leading it to be lower than it should be which makes your computer run the game slower than it would using only one method for the frame gen.
What people think
Nvidia frame gen: ITS FAKE FRAME, REEEEEEEEEEE
Downloaded frame gen: ITS PERFECT! I LOVE IT!!!!!
Yes, this is the poor AMDemential fanbase avg logic
We can use it in all games even vids weeeeeee😂
I have a 3060 ti, buying this app costs $3, upgrading GPU to 4th series to use their FG costs way more. Fuck nVidia
@someoneelse8103 really? Uh poor kid... mind even AMD and sony will has their FG AI based so soon 😂😂😂 and you will pay for that 😂😂😂
Would you rather pay $800 for fg and a new gpu or you use a gpu that doesn’t have fg and spend $7. Think people rather the cheaper option. This proves nvidia is holding back. Trillion dollar company and this dude does better FG for $7.
Lossless scaling works with dual GPUs, so if you have a configuration that supports the second GPU, you could buy something like a 5500 XT run the scaling off of that card. You need a card at least as powerful as the 6600 XT to comfortably do 4K scaling, but it removes the performance hit that you get from activating the frame generation. It is also much more difficult to run on Nvidia cards, and you'll find better results on low end AMD cards, even compared to higher-end Nvidia cards
As for cards capping out without setting VSync on, there is a limit to how many frames a card can push depending on how intense the scenario is.
SLI making a comeback?
i use it that way regularly thanks to my iGPU. Results in no hit to base frame rate as long as you can keep iGPU utilization in check.
Do you think free sync also work from the secondary card?
I do the same, with my $220 RTX 3060ti as the main GPU and a $36 RX 5600XT as the secondary GPU. Not the best combination, but it works with most games. Definitely better performance than just using the 3060ti or using the iGPU for LS.
Note: cap your frames using the games limiter or with Rivatuner. The performance will be smoother.
if graphics is too hard for the gpu, just lower the settings and you could get enough fps.
But the CPU might also put a hard cap in heavy NPC or action scenarios and that's when lsfg is gold!
lossless scaling works amazingly with CPU bound games, its amazing. i can even use it for ray traced minecraft XD
I also use lossless scaling to add frames to movies or TH-cam videos it works insanely good
Still trying to figure out how to make this work reliably. Need to take a deep dive into settings because I'm sure that's part of it. a recent test with YT didn't scale right. It also doesn't seem to do anything with popular subscription streaming services, probably due to HDCP. I would imagine if I were just trying to watch a ripped video file on VLC, it would probably work fine.
@@Lurch-Bot exactly with vlc and for TH-cam i tried on Opéra GX full screen nothing changed in the settings it works like a charm
I like the fact you can use this software when playing media files, I watched Dune II yesterday with lossless scaling @ 4x and it made the whole experience so smooth and buttery fluid on my PC Monitor, you can even enable when you switch TH-cam to fullscreen. 👍
I use lossless scaling to great effect. It makes Star Citizen, which is notoriously unoptimized in alpha, play like a dream.
AFMF 2 isn't turning off at high mouse speeds. This could be due to altered settings or because you're using a 1080p monitor with the settings set to 'auto.
Let's not forget that lossless scaling works on games that doesn't have frame gen🙏
this is the biggest win for it not every game has frame gen been using it awhile now
AFMF2 also does not require implementation, just that the engine is using directx 11-12. Both are nutty on emulation for old titles
Does not work on every game
@@dingickso4098 what game does it not work on because I'm yet to find one it doesn't so tell me
@dingickso4098 didn't have any issues
Cool feature with the frame gen is it can be used in non gaming scenarios. Hardcore Henry is a movie that has a very special spot in my heart but 24fps really hurts it being a first person movie but frame generating can get it to go well above 60 and it really helped with some of the "motion sickness" from the shakey cam
we got this before valorant replay system
Very informative and will look into this asap. Thanks man
It even has frame generation resolution scaling now 🙂
Bro, i needed info on how to use LS the best, but i already had it on with just youtube. stable 60/120 and i do believe THIS is the future of ai enanched watching anthing. subbed and liked :D
"trying lower end GPUs" - it's a 6600. feelsbadman
still perfectly fine for 1080p
What cpu do you have
@@__-fi6xg I think the point is that RX 6600 isn't that low end.
@@HunterTracks but it is, i have games that require more than 8 gb in 1080p on ulra
@@__-fi6xg I'm pretty sure that not being able to play all games on Ultra settings doesn't make a card low-end. Maybe in terms of cards you can buy brand new it's on the lower end, but it's definitely not low-end in terms of cards that are actually in use right now.
really god video on how it works and how to use it, not to say how to combine whit the defenitions on the game it self REALLY NICE
Lossless Scaling is the reason why i'm still able to play games on my Ryzen 7 5700G APU.
🍷🗿
is this game running well on r7 5700g with lossless scaling?
@@iGameinParadise I haven't played this game yet.
do i need to use windowed mode or borderless windowed mode sir ?
The thing that I really like is that it works as a separate window and can be captured separately.
I did that to stream Wind Waker, which is natively 30fps. OBS was capturing the clean, original footage at 30 FPS, and I was watching LS at 60 FPS. I didn't get motion sickness, and the viewers didn't see the artifacting.
Dlss needs to stop the fake bs of "it's only possible on 4000 series" or it's dead.
3000 series has older dedicated frame generation hardware, but it's not used
RTX cards has an AI chip which the older cards don't. Hope that helps.
@chypres89 RTX cards aren't limited to the 40 series... hope this helps ❤
And now DLSS 4 (4x framegen) is only on RTX Blackwell (you can now 20x your fps with LSFG, albeit with a fuck ton of glitches)
@@bruhassass 30 series is not the same Hope that helps
Great video Vex. Your content is super interesting and you make it clear and simple to understand.
I got this earlier this year, and it has revitalized my ROG Ally.
Just when I thought this app couldn't get any better. The FG resolution scale option is genius. LSFG on a 4K screen used to be really expensive on the GPU so you had to change your whole screen's resolution depending on the game at was annoying, but this solves the issue!
i tried this and it adds so much input lag it makes my hand hurt from moving the mouse so delayed.
you have too low base FPS 😕
@edalecu 120 fps locked doubled to 240, I don't think that's low.
@@yarincool1237 there is something wrong there.
@80fps+ base i'm ok with the input lag when I add 2x FG. At 120 FPS base it should be much better. Just a little heads-up for you: you should limit the overall fps a little lower than your monitor refresh, else you could get small stutters.
When I need to use LSFG, I limit my base fps to 1/2 -3fps of my screen refresh rate (79FPS). So I get 158FPS on my 165Hz monitor and it's perfectly smooth and responsive. I also use G-SYNC ON+VSYNC ON and Low Latency mode ON/ULTRA from the nvapp.
this video is gold
Too many bugs. Artifacts, random black screens, center screen character models disappearing? Yeah i have none of those issues with AFMF2.
Had you actually tried Lossless Scaling for yourself?
@@JeanOJesus I tried. And its trash. Looks bad feels bad compare to afmf2
@@csincse I bet you don't know how to use it properly
@@edalecu I could say the same. You dont know how to use afmf2 properly. Btw how I cant use it properly? It should go like click scale and done? And yet, still bad image quality without using the upscaling part and massive drops. So....
@@csincseI have been using on terraria/fallout/gta5/Valheim/helldivers 2 with a 4080 😂 and its been working great
You can technically do 20x if you go into custom. But I don't suggest going past 5x(i stay around 2x/3x).
Its upscale is great too(in windowed/borderless setting). Also if there's the option on the game you're playing you can use fsr frame gen/dlss with it too.
I played Ghost of Tsushima with LS 2.1 with x3 FG at 240fps and hz and it was amazing. Seems to work really well at higher fps.
Need to give it a go with more games with the latest version.
3x isn't so bad if you're starting with 80fps. But most of us are using the app to squeeze more life out of older hardware. If you can only get the game to run at 30fps at your chosen settings along with the overhead of scaling and FG, you really only want to use 2x FG. And you don't even wanna see what 4x FG looks like when the GPU is only rendering at 20fps, lol.
@@Lurch-Bot Is x3 much more demanding than x2, i'm not sure about that
I think the best way to test this, is on older GPUs, so we can actually see some fps going up... Because going up of 60 fps is a plus, but 60 is the lowest target
they just updated it to 2.12
I"ve used Lossless Scaling on quite a few games, but for whatever reason I was getting a bunch of random crashes while running it with Phasmophobia. I tested quite a few different settings yet didn't get it to a point where I felt it was stable. It's been really good on the other games I've ran it with though! Definitely recommend.
If any of y’all missed the NVIDIA 2025 CES event, this is it
Basically yeah, but the contrast between the comments on the ces presentation and this video is crazy. nvidia ces comments are all about 'oh fake frames', 'ai garbage' and 'it looks so bad'. While the comments here are like 'it looks fine' and 'download more fps!!'. It's worse than even fsr. The only advantage is you can use this on any gpu for pretty much any game, even those that don't support dlss/fsr/xess.
@user1-theOGit’s better than FSR+
This is on any GPU basically no matter how bad,
DLSS is exclusive to GPU at minimum cost of 549 so far (DOSS 4)
This costs only 7 bucks
Plus if I remember correctly it can stack using LSFG and native frame gen (dlss or FSR)
One use case you didn't go over in the video is using Lossless Scaling to play games that are locked at 60FPS at whatever FPS you want. Makes a massive difference in some games.
Agree. AMD AFMF or whatever its called is super bad. Props to the guy that made lossless scaling actually doing better job than billionaire companies
AFMF or AFMF2
There's also FSR3 frame gen ?
@@walter1824lossless scaling looks better and has better features, it also works on every gpu and any application. Afmf 2 can't quadruple your fps. It can also not do the frame gen upscale thing. It also isn't ai.
@@Spectrulight"Lossless scaling looks better"
Citation needed. Vex is not a valid citation.
"it also works on every application"
Not really? It depends on whether the specific frame capture method is supported. No capture = no FG.
"Afmf2 can't quadruple your FPS"
Why would you ever wanna do that?
"It can also not do the frame gen upscale thing"
AMD drivers also have built-in FSR 1 in the form of Radeon Super Resolution. They can, in fact, do both upscaling and frame gen.
"It also isn't AI"
And that's relevant... how, exactly? I never understand why AI is supposed to be automatically good.
Edit: oh, by resolution scale frame gen you mean intentionally downscaling the input image to try to claw back some performance? I mean sure, that's nice, but if the performance was better it wouldn't be necessary.
@@HunterTracks you need citation for a subjective opinion such as looks?
@@evanmayes1144 I laughed when I saw that, lol.
literally the best app you can get off steam. I use it to just insert FG into ANY Game, I dont go above x2 and dont use anyt scaling other tha nthe game itself. FPS doubled and gpu usage drops (limit the game to 60fps, lossless outputs 120) Your GPU will thankyou, it runs cooler
bro's forgot half the features of afmf 2 and called it bad
What features ? lmao what features ? It has no features at all, just bare bones frame gen.
It has a performance mode which LSFG also does. It can run on iGPU which LSFG also does. Search mode is more of a fix than a feature lol.
Now lemme tell you what features LSFG can do
x3 and x4 frame gen
resolution scale of generated frames
G sync support
compatibility across any game that can run in windowed or boderless mode regardless of API
supported on any GPU not just one or 2 generation of a single brand.
Support for cursor sensitvity adjustment
clip cursor options
and off course the app includes spatial upscaling options as well.
Loss less scaling has bad input lag compared to afmf @@DragonOfTheMortalKombat
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat1. X3 and X4 mode are terrible, so that's not even a flex. I don't understand how some people make a fuss about afmf2 artifacts, but try to promote lossless X3/X4 modes, which has even more artifacts and feels terrible.
2. Afmf2 works in full screen, no need to continually switch your game to windowed or borderless.
3. HDR support is terrible using lossless, no issues using afmf2 with HDR.
4. Afmf2 is FREE.
However, I do like the fact lossless can be used for non games, I.e movies and videos. Both lossless and afmf2 has their use cases. But Afmf2 is far more convenient.
@@dytub-george7297 Spoken like someone who has never actually used Lossless Scaling before. I recently tried both in Cyberpunk with a very low spec system. Only LSFG produced a playable result because it does the same thing with less overhead. AMD has zero motivation to make AFMF more efficient, whereas that's the only motivation LS devs have.
@@RX7800XTBenchmarks The instructions for LSFG specifically say to use fullscreen mode. Ironically, this didn't work in Cyberpunk like in other games and I had to run borderless.
I wouldn't use any frame gen algorithm above 2x. The results will always be terrible, regardless of whose implementation you are using. Even at 2x, in Cyberpunk, I noticed about a 4-6ms increase in frametimes but they were still lower than AFMF.
At 2x, LSFG is noticeably superior in my experience to AFMF. Also, LS works with most games and doesn't require baked in support. LS will work on a 15 year old GPU.
Lastly, the fact you cannot get a framerate cap with AFMF is why I don't use it and why I'm not going to buy a DLSS 3 compatible GPU either.
The conventional 'wisdom' about framerates is very wrong and the only thing running unlocked does is give you inconsistent frametimes and stutter. But, hey, the widespread misconception is how I can stay halfway competitive in an online FPS, sliding into middle age with an as of yet still untreated thyroid problem which gives me brain fog and extreme fatigue, lol. I probably get half my kills because someone running unlocked had a stutter.
Bought this a few months ago, can't ever play games like Minecraft without it, removed my need for always wanting to upgrade my system, Highly recommended
There is an app called something like borderless minecraft and it works super well with LS. It can be downloaded from github. I use it every time i play.
it took you 36 min to explain this? do better, be faster. long videos are boring. people have a maximum attention spand of 15-20min if you are pushing it. anything longer and people will skip most of your videos.
Their loss, he shouldn't compromise
TikTok brain
Sorry you have a useless amount of brain power that makes ya a tik token brain rotted waste of space
This tool is incredible. I don't know how more people aren't talking about it. I've used it in Crysis 2 Remastered to go from an unstable 100 fps to a stable 140 fps. So I'm running this game at a stable 140 fps at max settings (except for Ray Tracing, which is at High) in 1440p on an RTX 3080 10GB (granted DLSS Quality is on, but it still looks really good). I'm using a Ryzen 5950x, if that matters.
Similarly, I've used it in Ghost Recon Breakpoint to go from around 100 fps to 130 fps.
In both cases, I have not perceived any loss in image quality or any noticeable artefacts.
I don't get how this isn't bigger news in the gaming community.
Another thing I've found with lossless scaling(LS) is it really depends on the specific game you are running, some games respond very well and others not so much. Space Marine II responds extremely well, I've been running it in x2 mode with my frames capped at 80(160 w/ LS) and it's awesome. Remnant II however looks better with AMD's frame-gen as opposed to LS, more visual artifacting in this case. Windwaker HD(CEMU) at x3(30 to 90) is butter, with minor visual artifacting(totally worth it here though imo, even over x2 mode). Deadpool(pcsx3) at x2(30 to 60) benefits from smoothness, but has visual artifacting like Vex was showing with Black Myth Wukong at x4 mode, character model Phasing in and out of existence that sort of thing. Just a few of my experiences, it's a wonderful program and I recommend it!
Yes, YMMV. It doesn't work with literally EVERYTHING. Doesn't work on LA Noire, not that I need it to, lol. Also, while the instructions say you must run the game in fullscreen mode, Cyberpunk only worked with LS using windowed borderless.
I have used LSFG with a 12 year old GTX 670. That was mind blowing. 2x scale and 2x FG allowed me to play Forza Horizon 4 at 1440p60. It wasn't perfect - menus would get kinda blurry when moving quickly through them and the moving map was a little shaky. Still usable though. Still was able to do ranked racing as well as I would on a much better system.
@@Lurch-Bot TY for the info, Cyberpunk is a great use case for LS! Pretty impressive FH4 perf too!
Hey! What kinda games could I try LS on CEMU? The ones i have actually have a 60fps mod. I get that if you have a high refresh rate monitor you could benefit anyways but mine is 75hz XD
Edit: if it enhances smoothness I'll use it regardless the 60 fps mods
If they get it compatible with steam deck… We’re golden.
Thanks Vex! I purchased this a while back but didn't really get much out of it - but tried the latest version on my ARC A750 and Star Citizen has gone from 30-40FPS 2k resolution everything on max up to 140! .... and it still looks amazing!! WOO WOO ( Verified FPS with the XBox FPS counter as well )
Tbh I use it (at performance mode) for my GTX 1050 Ti and it's honestly great, I recommend it.
Tried LSFG 3.0 yet? It's comparable to 2.3's performance mode but looks significantly better.
@@ravenger2445 Gonna try it out soon, I hope it pays off
Best thing is: you can use the framegen in any video. TH-cam, vlc, animes...and it's soo much better than the old stuttery 24/30 fps.
You can use it with emulators too.
Such a gem.
I would like to mention that there is an optimal setting for Nvidia and AMD GPUs, which is different lower down in the graphical settings. In lossless, the dev stated, “The new "Max Frame Latency" option acts as a balance between latency and performance. There is no best value, as all systems are different. Most likely, the optimal value will be 1 for Nvidia GPUs and 3 for AMD. It should be at least 2 (3 for AMD) if you want LS to be able to render over refresh rate.” In one of their updates to the app, this I believe really helps with the ghosting issue you were seeing with the AMD card.
If you have two GPUs you can make one of them do the FG computational work so the other won't take a hit in the base FPS. The secondary GPU has to be decent though
Very interesting this subject with the two GPUs. I have an RTX 3090 and I play in 4K. What second graphics card can I take with the one I have? And have you gained in latency with two GPUs?
@@Spyzote my second GPU is RX 580 along with 3090 and it couldn't handle it. Stuttering every 4 seconds. Until I get a new GPU to try I wouldn't know
@@oMeGa0122 Perhaps the second GPU is too weak? Keep me posted when you receive the news
@@Spyzote yeah it's pretty weak with 4gb ram only it can barely run games @ 1080p
as a work laptop player, now switching to gaming laptop (with 240hz screen) i think lossless frame gen will get me the fps i allways wanted :D
One thing I'd like to add is, while in game frame caps can be fine, I prefer/recommend capping frames at the driver level. So using Nvidia control panel for team green cards or Radeon chill(in AMD Software: Adrenalin Edition) for team red.
I've found that in game frame caps often will allow the game to occasionally go above the cap in some situations(sometimes frequently), which can affect smoothness with lossless scaling, the built in options by Nvidia and AMD have always hard capped at what I've set and keep the game locked down.
It would be cool to see a power usage analysis, like just set your gpu to lock at 30 with rivo tuner and then use this to upscale to 120 FPS and then run it basically at 120 to see what your equivalent usage is. I know it’s not all the same, but in talking cost to upgrade this seems like a good comparison. Not only do you not have the new gpu cost but you also don’t have the higher power usage to get to that rather fps. Thinking like you have a 3060 with lossless scaling Vs a 4080 or something to reach rather high FPS.
I love lossless scaling literally use it to watch anime all the time what alot of people might find wrong but i just love it so much
Honestly love this software. It makes my games so much better especially when it performs better than most of the in game frame gen implementations.
for those playing a game, and it is native at 50ish,,use the lossless and lock the fps at 45, with x2 the feeling will be 90...amazing
I have been using lossless scaling for a solid minute now. It clearly won't work for some games but for games that are framerate capped or super cpu bound. Fps capped games (terraria, fallout4/Vegas) and cpu limited such as gta5 and helldivers2. Just make sure you have extra gpu usage to spare! This software eats away at my 4080 like crazy
Haven't played a FO game since I got LS but I may be playing Vegas again soon and will try LSFG. The problem is that, with the Creation engine, load times are tied to framerate. And load times get excessively long in FO4, which is why I will just uncap it and accept the broken ragdoll effects and speech. You run into similar issues with Starfield and it is no accident that the 4090 can manage just over 100fps at 4k Ultra in Starfield. Just under the point where ragdoll physics break. That also means they basically tuned the game to run worse than it has to on lower spec GPUs.
As for LS 'eating your 4080 like crazy', that's just absurd. Earlier this year, I played Forza Horizon 4 at 1440p60 on a GTX 670. LS has the most efficient frame gen algorithm. AMD and Nvidia have zero motivation to optimize their frame gen solutions. Lossless Scaling devs don't have any other motivation but to make their algorithm efficient.
I've been using lsfg on the legion go for a while now and it's a game changer!
LS works amazingly well for my at x2. When I try x3 the latency and artifacting is too much. Very happy with a doubling of my fps though so I'm not complaining. Pretty amazing.
This is a game changer for broken games like Wild Hearts. Even though Im running the game at 60fps by the counter, it feels like its running at 20. With lossless scaling I run that game at 100fps caped at 50, to achieve perfect frame times. Finally I can play it
How's the input delay? That's what everyone's talking about.
if you see the click in 0.25 speed there is a bit of input delay but really works well.
Lossless is awesome, found the app a bit ago and really helps when running on a 2060 laptop (upgrading to a 7900XT desktop soon)
Usually if the fsr frame gen is bad it's because it is fsr 3.0 and not 3.1, so using something like dlss enabler would fix the issue.
I think X2 is the best option for people who have setups which can run latest games at around 35 fps at low-medium settings and can use FG to get a pretty solid 60. The other modes are good for people with stronger setups who already get 60+ fps and want to x3 it or x4
Thanks for the video. I use the afmf 2 and it has been plenty enough so far.
I'm an indie game lover, and some of them don't support over 60fps. To name a few: Celeste, Noita and Nova Drift. LS does an amazing job with them! I just have to make sure to go to the nvidia control panel, and set their low latency mode to ultra.
It also works wonders with gameplay videos on youtube (maybe even twitch too), I think you didn't mention that. LS can work with any window, not just games.
The beta branch of LSFG was recently updated with SGSR upscaling which is supposedly lightweight.
wow
i watched a few videos on this program
but yours is the best
you did it in much more finer detail and explanation
and the likes of 120 fps recording really does show the differences
you sold me on this
can u give a update on version 3.0 thats out now ?
appreciate the video!
Saw this vid posted by Daniel Owens, this software is the GOAT I can run games in the emulators at 60fps, even those switch games like Xenoblade Chronicles series. Damn it feels so good.
I use lossless all the time with rtx 4070 in games where the pc port is bad like gta 4 and assassin creed black flag
These games with frame generation becomes a whole different games especially in ac black flag case
That game is so so beautiful but locked in performance
But lossless scaling gave a new life to the game so yeahh
Totally recommended if your gpu is powerful enough to render lossless fg properly...
4x frame gen sounds great but, no matter the algorithm, you're going to have some noticeable input lag. LS works best when you limit it to no more than 2x frame gen and 2x scaling. I played Forza Horizon 4 for over 100 hours at 1440p60 on a GTX 670, using 2x LS1 scaling and 2x LSFG 2.1 frame gen. I was just as competitive in ranked racing because the latency increase was basically imperceptible. There were a couple of very minor graphical glitches - the moving map was a little shaky and you would get some distortion when moving quickly through menus. Otherwise, it was a solid result.
The best thing about Lossless Scaling frame gen is the fact you can dial in a locked framerate, which you cannot do with either AFMF or DLSS 3. This causes the system to always run at 100% so that any time you get a momentary increase in resource demand, you get a stutter. In general, this is why running an unlocked framerate is always a bad idea, especially on a competitive title.
Another thing people don't talk about with Lossless Scaling is the fact that you can use a second, weaker GPU to handle the overhead from the app, leaving your main GPU to put all its effort into rasterization. Neither AMD nor Nvidia allow you to do this and I don't think people realize how much overhead there is with scaling and frame gen.
This is why I just laugh when people talk about the 4060 and frame gen. 2x, 3x, 4x from 20fps at 1080p Ultra with RT in Cyberpunk is still going to run and look like crap.
Can you put the strain on onboard graphics? I am using a 980 ti and have a 970 laying around but I don’t have any pci 16 slots left. Would it work on the 970 if I put it in a smaller slot?
Bro you can even use it on YT! This is amazing!
If you do x2 mode just cap your frame rate to half your monitor's refresh rate to avoid microstuttering or frame skipping. x3 = 1/3 and x4 = 1/4 of your monitor's refresh rate. I use rivatuner to cap my frames btw and it works great. I you have old hardware like rx 580 or gtx 1060 use performance mode it uses less resources in exchange for very little image quality impact but still worth it.
Yo this tool is dope on FF16. My base is 60 and im getting 180
this thing finally lets me play indie games especially UE4/5 games properly on my 2080 super
only if the best possible visuals aren't compromised, visuals always first, than after that we will consider if there any room for fps
i have a meaty PC but i still used to lose frames in Guildwars 2 big group content,
i've started capping my FPS to 60 and running lossless scaler whenever i play
and now not only can i run the big group content with buttery smooth FPS,
but my pc is also way quieter when i'm not in the big group content because my fps is capped at "60"
(120 thanks to Lossless Scaler) instead of unlimited which i used to have it set too. :D
so its a win win!
The only bad thing is that increases the input lag significantly. The frames it generates are not "playable" frames, so you will notice more input lag, specially in FPS games.
However it's an awesome tool that you can use to play videogames, watch videos and movies. Yes you can increase FPS for movies or series, and it works.
Best software purchase so far for me.
Rivatuner Nvidia reflex + lsfg has been my way to go for all games for 2 months now its way way better than normal fg... Being able to play every single story game on 180 fps with very good latency have been a dream come true to me
Can you explain the process you use?
@@juanospina3690Its really simple as it is
I just use Nvidia reflex through rivatuner and then Ensure my games have at least a 45-60 base frames and turn on x3 lossless scaling with turning off vsync option in lsfg that's it
psst, hey yall, just a reminder that you dont NEED to use lossless scaling for gaming only, you can literally enable it on like a movie or something and have it at 240fps, im watching arcane with lossless scaling on and its amazing!
You think this will even work with a 1660 Super?
@@WizeGuye worked on a shitter 750ti (literally falling to pieces) i dont see why not a 1660
@nortonlucas, sounds good lol. And does it really make input lag bad or is that just from people with like 25 MB speeds lol?
Depends on the settings you use, I did feel input lag on 4x, games were running way smoother but moving camera around felt about half a second slower, would not recommend 4x for shooters, great for non competitive games tho, survival games n stuff. Also love 4x frame generation for anime.
@nortonlucas , yeah I was going to use this on single player Games and No Man's Sky because I have like 20 mods lol. But thanks for the insight. I appreciate it.