Great informative video. I purchased the sink plating kit from Jane Kits and my parts are coming out looking new, but I have the brightened added, fish tank submersible heater in the solution and a fish tank agitator for the solution. I did get a larger 50mm axle nut come out of the zinc mix the same dull grey that you show, but I figured out my Amps were not high enough to plate it correctly. I cleaned the part again, upped the Amps and it now looks like chrome. I use the Caswell calculator to determine a parts area in square cm, then multiply that by 0.00625 to get the Amps required to correctly plate the item. Just keep adding the Amps required for each part placed in the bath and you should be good. I bought my power supply as part of my kit and they do say to use the variable Amp function, not the variable volt function, this way you set the required Amps, and the voltage will chase that setting giving you the correct volts.
I had an issue early on with my zinc plating electrolyte. I inadvertently added all the brightener that was supplied with the kit and the parts always came out looking dull. However, you could polish the parts back to a high lustre with a fine, grey scotchbrite pad or some fine metal polish. The underlying zinc plate was good and it polishes well. I ended up completely replacing my electrolyte with a fresh batch and now the parts come out with a very bright finish. I don't know how true it is but I have read that it is almost impossible to calculate the surface area with any sort of precision. I sometimes use the CAD software to report the surface area but it can become meaningless if there are any machining marks or surface texture on the part. If you are interested you can Google "fractal coastline length". Basically, it states that surface irregularities will soon add up to infinity. I generally just set the voltage to 3 to 5V and set the current low (an intuitive guess) and then monitor the coating as it develops. One thing I was told by a plating expert was to never take the part out of the plating solution to inspect it. If you put the part back with the power on, it will lead to a possible delamination failure in the plated finish. I just bring the part up to the surface of the plating bath without breaking the surface so you can see if it has a shiny finish. I am glad you are getting good results with your home plating setup. I find it to be extremely rewarding to be able to put durable finishes on metal parts without having to pay a lot of money for a professional to do the work for you. I have used professional shops to plate parts and to anodise parts and they always do an excellent job but it's not always economical for small parts or small batches because there may be a "minimum charge" which is sometimes very expensive for a one off part. Regards, Mark
Such a great video, Im currently beginning a car restoration and want to be able to restore my bolts in packages so they don’t get mixed up and this will work great! Thanks so much for the time to make a video on it! I’ll be ripping into it!
I have done some silver plating using one of those "Plug and Plate" kits sold by Caswell. It worked great and they do have a gold plating solution as well. Regards, Mark
Adding brightener will certainly help with getting a brighter deposit. Additionally, the brighteners typically work most effectively at higher current densities, so you may want to increase the current a bit. Obviously, too much current will cause burning (spongy, non-adherent deposit) on the edges.
I really enjoy watching restoration videos and it's awesome to be able to plate items yourself. Thanks for the videos!! The rings I make from coins are plated in brass, I also take coins that represent someones birthday and turn a penny to zinc, quarters to brass, and nickels to copper.
Mark- the huge temperature swing here does the same thing with steel parts and tooling. Massive difference between here and where I started, the desert in south Arizona. We cad plated helicopter parts commercially when doing overhauls by sending them to a propeller shop. Being aircraft, they had to go thru a process to relieve any embrittlement, but it tremendously lessened the chance of rusting. Sink looks like an alternative.
Ha, I know what the secret piece of kit is! Saw your comment on Joe's channel. Thank you for the plating vid. I've done this with circuit boards, didn't realize steel was very similar. I think the dull finish is just from thickness/soak time.
I have to get some zinc brightener for the plating bath. It helps to keep the zinc from going dull as it builds up. Yes, I have now got a Bridgeport. I actually made the video of it's arrival before this last episode of the metal finishing series. It should be out in a day or two. I have wanted one for a long time and I managed to purchase one of only three for sale here in Oz just as Covid 19 came after us. I had to buy the machine sight unseen but I actually got it running just today and it sounds great and everything works so that's a bonus. I have secretly envied Joe Pi and his ability to hog out massive cuts in difficult materials on his machine. Good times ahead I hope! Regards, Mark
a suggestion that some might find useful, because i live in an earthquake prone area and don't like blowing up power supplies, I make cages out of 2 liter soda bottles that i put a number of 1 inch holes in and depending on the shape of the part i am doing i either put the part in plastic cage or the anodes, it never has effected the process and it relieves that sinking feeling you always get in your stomach every time you want to leave while something is still in the tank plating......
Excellent video on Zinc plating. i ordered the book from Jane kits. I have a garage full of old motorcycles that will benefit from a little zinc plating to brighten the fasteners and other bits. Again, excellent joy Mark.
Stephen, I am currently wrestling with trying to decide if I should just get on and use the mill or start tearing it down to do a full restoration and repaint. I got the mill up and running today and everything seems to work OK except maybe for the coolant pump. Unfortunately the paint that is on it at present is not original and it looks like someone painted it with a brush. Eeeww! Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Hi Mark, I reckon deep down you've already decided what to do about the mill. Someone painted it WITH A BRUSH??? We all know you won't be able to walk in the workshop every day and look at that hideous carbuncle for long... it's only a matter of time until you sort it out properly, and that's the bit we're looking forward to 😊
very thorough video on home plating:) I wonder, when you talk about the cleaning of the parts, if not an ultrasonic cleaner is the best way to go, as it gets to all the nooks and crannies of a part, and is also less likely to possibly contaminate the part, and seeing how cheap those have become over the years, I figured it could be a good investment:)?
This is mostly how I clean my parts now. I use a solution of "Simple Green" cleaner and put the parts in a plastic bag or cup and suspend in plain water. My ultrasonic cleaner doesn't have a heater so I sometimes use hot or warm water if the parts might be contaminated with cutting oil or grease. It takes about 10 minutes to cycle the parts this way. However, a heated (hot) bath of alkaline cleaner is the industry standard. Regards, Mark
Hi Mark informative series, I worked for nearly 30 years for a metal finishing company over here in the UK and in the early years in worked at one of the companies within the group that did the commercial zinc plating and we played mainly fasteners in what was called bright zinc the parts never came of full always bright but if they did start to dull the chemical wizard would emerge from his cave take a look throw in a beaker of this and that and back to a bright finish and as you suggest then either dipped in the blue or yellow finish. I have to add that depending on the surface finish some parts could be mistaken for chrome.
Jane Kits do sell a zinc brightener which can be added a few millilitres at a time to help keep the parts shiny. I didn't bother buying it at the time I purchased the zinc plating solution but it's not expensive so I must get some. I did read a forum on the Caswell site a few nights ago and it seems like every second person was asking for advice on how to keep their parts shiny during plating. The reasons given for dull plate were many and varied. But you are correct. Zinc plated parts should have almost a mirror finish if everything is done properly. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 i never really took to much notice of the chemical side unless it impacted om my job which was Maintenance Manager our plant were acid zinc and with 6 monster to look after believe me I was kept busy that stuff eats it way through anything !
great job on the bandsaw table. Mark, I bought a bandsaw which has some rust on the table that's got some pits here and there. There's actually one spot off to the side that's maybe an inch and a half square thats pitted pretty good. If you decided the fix for this table was to take a layer off with machine tools, would the lathe be your go to? Or would you set up a fly cutter in the mill? I don't have a shaper. I do have a surface grinder but I've never ground cast iron and not keen to experiment on a bandsaw table I hope I can use. Thoughts?
Bobby, I ended up casting a new aluminium table for the little saw. I cast some lugs onto it so I could bolt it to the large faceplate on my Colchester lathe. I also sized the table so it would just clear the bed of the lathe. My mill would probably not be able to clean up the whole surface of the table with one pass and this would inevitably lead to a scrappy looking appearance. I have read that lathes will intentionally face a large piece of stock slightly hollow so that the resulting surface will sit flat against another truly flat part. Given that the little bandsaw is only for cutting up sheet stock and thin stock I didn't think it was going to be an issue. I can't really comment on surface grinders because I only ever used on once when I was at college but I believe they are quite capable of grinding cast iron well. Regards, Mark
Always touch the bar (connect the part) before touching the bath. To avoid passive zinc deposit that would compromise the adhesion of the further deposit.
Love the video. Thank you. Could you post the recipe to the bath and the volts/amps in the description. I keep rewinding and missing it. Would love to see your take on copper plating. I have been trying to copper plate my clamps and vicegrips to protect them from weld spatter with little success. interested in cold blue as a corrosion protection on tools I make but sourcing it at a reasonable price. blueing with the gun guys stuff entire machine parts would cost a lot.
I purchased the solution for the zinc plate electrolyte so I don't really know what it's composed of. Jane Kits sell a copper strike solution which can deposit very thick layers of copper but I haven't tried it yet. I have used some cold blue solutions before with mixed results. It tends to look good for a while but it soon wears off and goes a sort of dull brown colour. Parkerising is a hot chemical process which is way more durable and steel parts will go jet black and stay that way. Regards, Mark
I have kept all those samples in my workshop and I plan to revisit the topic in a future video. None of the parts that I have parkerised have shown any sign of corrosion and even parts like a 4 jaw chuck key that takes a lot of wear and tear are still in good condition. It might be a different story if they were outside in the weather but then again parkerising is not the best solution for parts in those environments anyway. Hot dip galvanising is probably best for that. Regards, Mark
Hi Mark, Very helpfull set of vids, thank you for getting me started on Anodising & Electroplating...Q. Where did you get those Zinc Anodes? I have only been able to get Thin Sheet or Bolt on style Boat anodes so far.
Looking up Jane Kits, and noted this. ""NOTE: Constant movement (not air) inside the plating bath is essential, it enables the chemical to mix and assists with distributing the metal irons around the electroplating bath more efficiently. Jane Kits has a product called an Agitator, which is a small impeller type pump, tested to survive inside the plating chemicals. It is strongly recommended to add an"" Nice video. Mate living in Central Qld, tell me some more about rust., 'sa real bugger, Hey!
I do need to get an agitator and it's on the shopping list. As is the zinc brightener which helps to improve the shininess of the plated parts. Yes, our sub tropical climate has a lot to answer for when it comes to destroying metal surfaces! Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Your test sample is not bad after 11 months, here in the corrosion capital of the world that would be only 2 days of leaving it out. I used to work on aircraft, and Tectyl was a standard thing to use on all parts. Cases of the cans per month, and we also ordered it in 200l drums, and would dip whole parts in it for protection, as well as painting it in all cavities. Rifles in the armoury were always stored wrapped in greased cloth, as otherwise they would go black and rust solid in a month or two, so they were all drowned in it. My trainer was a marksman, so every week that pistol would be stripped down to parts, cleaned, oiled and polished after his outing. Even the ammunition left in the magazine as every day carry would be polished till it shone, along with the inside of the magazine, and the leather holster. Airfield has an altitude of zero feet, and at high spring tides your feet might be a little wet walking off the concrete.
Been a good informative little series Mark 👍 I wonder if you have ever though of or tried a dehumidifier? I'm less than 200m from the sea, next stop Antarctica, and have no problems in the shed. Even stuff left outside takes a long time to show corrosion.
I recall reading a series of articles in the Model Engineer magazine years ago where the writer made a dehumidifier from an old bar fridge. I think the notion was to have the evaporator exposed so it would collect the moisture in the air and then drain it outside. I have actually been in the shed just after the sun goes down and on really humid days you can see the sheen of moisture on the surface of some of the heavier chunks of metal in the shop. It's a real problem but I guess there is the compensation of living in a place with such a pleasant climate. I have been to Canada three times and it is a beautiful place but who'd want to live there in the winter? Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Cheap dehumidifier is to find an old split unit AC, and connect it in the shop so that the output air of the evaporator is sucked into the condenser, so that it cools the air, and dumps the moisture, and the cold air is then used to cool the condenser. that way the air coming out is ambient temperature ( just slightly hotter) and very much drier. If you find 2 outdoor units of the same sixe you can put them fan to fan, and then connect them together to make a dehumidifier as well, just needs a little bit of work to bypass the compressor in the one, and join them together piping wide, and then vacuum out and charge again. Not going to win awards, but it works well to remove moisture, around 20l per hour, using a 1200 BTU unit when I did it. was more effective than just plain AC, though of course the room did run a lot hotter, not helped by the 22kW heater in it, but it at least got a lot of the moisture out that was being put in by it.
Insulation helps 😁. Mongrel job in a large tin shed I know but even just doing the roof would be a good thing. Maybe try a large fan an hour each side of sunset, just to get some airflow. Agree about Canadia, us Tassie's start dreaming of Qld about now but living in AvE land.. no thanks. 5ish c is bad enuf, can't even contemplate -30.
Mark, Great series! I'll be using information from all of these "finishing" videos in my own shop. Have you tried the "color" dips on (hot dip) galvanized parts? I wonder if the "color dip" will add any extra level of protection to galvanized parts like gate hinges? Or would that surface have to be "prepared" somehow for the "color dip" to be effective?
Bob, there is an activator sold by Jane Kits which prepares the zinc for the chromate process. I haven't tried it but it would be interesting to see if the gold dip does actually colour the hot dip galvanised parts. I am thinking that if the zinc has been oxidised and looks a bit grey, you could strip the surface back with hydrochloric acid or nitric acid to give it a fresh surface. Nitric is really hard to get these days but hydrochloric is easy enough to get. Regards, Mark
Nice 👍. Are you using brighteners? I use the zinc solution from Jane Kits and parts come out looking as good as zinc plated bolts you'd buy - chrome like. Though I do have trouble getting a consistent finish with the passivating. I find that the passivating stage is very prone to turning sh**.
Geoffrey, I was too cheap to buy the brightener. I just checked the other day and it's actually not that expensive. I must get some. I recall seeing your video on the process and that 's when I found out about Jane Kits. Strangely, I have never had a problem with the passivating but the zinc always comes out dull. I checked on the Caswell forums and it seems that half the queries were relating to dull finishes. I also read through the Jane Kits book and I can't find any reference to the voltage you are supposed to use. Maybe it's not that critical? Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 re voltage. I don't think it matters much. The zinc solution seems pretty forgiving. I lock my power supply somewhere between 1 & 5 amps. I just guestimate depending on how big the parts look. I use a 12v supply but it never gets close to that, normally hovering around 3ish volts I think. There is an acid Jane Kits sell to use between plating and passivating. I think it is necessary if you are using brighteners, but maybe not - I've always used it anyway.
Preso, I know it rains a lot in Queensland but the levee of oxidation is pretty high. Does it have anything to do with your proximity to the ocean (if you are) or could it be on a bench that needs a better ground? And thanks for the playlists. It makes viewing the series much easier.
William, we are about 20km inland from the coast but the main problem is our climate which is sub tropical. We get high humidity in the summer and my workshop is not really insulated or very well sealed (it's just a steel shed). When the sun goes down the temperature drops below the dew point and any metal surfaces get damp with condensation. Metal surfaces also get a coating of dust and fine metal particles which hold the moisture and help the corrosion process along. It doesn't help that I also have a connected wood shop so wood dust migrates everywhere. Regards, Mark
For what it's worth - I use these kits and I'm having real problems with flaking afterwards. Still trying to troubleshoot - I'm pretty sure I clean the parts well enough beforehand (no beading) so it could be that I'm using too much current (I get a slight/moderate fizz off the parts while I'm plating) or I have impurities in my zinc solution (which is definitely not clear like that - slightly orange coloured). However my parts do come out brilliantly shiny - Mark have you added enough brightener to your zinc solution? and kept it topped up?
Sam, in the Jane Kits book they advise to avoid taking the part out of the plating solution during the process. This can cause flaking and delamination of the plate. It's tempting to take it out just to check on the progress but evidently the interruption of current can create a boundary layer which can stop the next layer of plate from adhering. I didn't buy any brightener when I purchased the zinc plate solution so that could be why I am not getting the shiny finish. However, I did read the Caswell plating forum and it seems to be a common complaint and even Caswell don't have a definitive answer to the problem. Jane Kits advise that too much or too little brightener can have the same effect and they suggest adding a few ml's and then trying a test plate, then adding some more and so on. The only real way to get it right is to have a chemist analyse your solution. My problem is I don't do enough of it to refine the technique. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Thanks - and for such great videos. I do know that I had one set of plating that was shiny, the following set came out really dull (like Bunnings galvanised screws) so I added a few ml of brightener and the subsequent set came out super shiny again...
Is the flaking happening between layers of zinc, or between the substrate and the zinc? As Mark said, don't remove your part during the process or you can passivate the surface and the subsequent layer will have poor adhesion. If the flaking is all the way down to the substrate, then your part is not sufficiently clean and/or not activated before plating. You say that the part is clean and has no water beading, so I will suggest that you dip you part in a dilute acid solution to activate the surface. 10% hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid) should work for steel parts, but you will want to rinse the part after the acid very well. I'm not sure which type of zinc electrolyte is in the Jane kit, but if it is an alkaline zinc solution, then the acid will contaminate it. If the Jane kit is an acid zinc electrolyte, then a trace amount of the acid won't have much effect. Additionally, and this is probably not your case, but too much brightener can cause the surface to passivate and cause poor adhesion.
These days I prefer to oven the parts then vegetable oil them. Safer to breathe during and after if youre welding on it, also safer for the environment when you're done
I guess metal finishing techniques are like a tool box full of spanners. You use the one that fits. I like to be able to pick and choose which methods I think suit the situation. I do have a problem with rust in my workshop, mainly due to our subtropical climate and for me, zinc plating is a fairly bullet proof solution. However I do sometimes just use a cold blue or just leave the part bright. It depends on how often the part gets used and in what sort of environment. Regards, Mark
Greg, I can do both nickel plating and nickel cobalt in my workshop. th-cam.com/video/cBtCLqOGy3g/w-d-xo.html Nickel cobalt is as close as you can get to a chrome plate finish without using really toxic chemicals and metals. Nickel is a much warmer looking finish than chrome and you don't tend to see it much these days. Regards, Mark
I get my anodising dyes from Caswell Australia www.caswellplating.com.au/store/store.php/categories/anodizing-dyes but it seems that you can now buy dyes on Amazon www.amazon.com/Anodizing-Dye/s?k=Anodizing+Dye I have only ever used the Caswell products and they are very good. It is very important to ensure that the dyes are kept at the correct PH range. Check out this page to see the correct PH for each Caswell colour forum.caswellplating.com/forum/anodizing-questions/3885-anodizing-dye-ph Regards, Mark
Ahhh! I was wondering when someone would pick that up. That screw is actually a set screw to clamp a sliding stop bar in place. The next time I have the cold bluing kit out I will do it for you. 😁
Jane, I bought mine on Ebay a few years ago and I recalled paying under AU $75 for it. However they are now averaging about AU$145 plus shipping in some cases. www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gophert-CPS-3010-Adjustable-DC-Switching-Power-Supply-0-30V-0-10A-AC100-264V/264347645172?hash=item3d8c58f4f4:g:FMMAAOSwD9dbZ7aj They are a good unit though and I have found mine to be quite reliable. Regards, Mark
Mark, Many thanks for all your videos. I would like to do some of these processes soon. Is it necessary to polish/rub the parts with steel wool every time before passivation? or can the parts just be washed off? Hopefully someday I can buy you a beer if we ever cross paths. Cheers Max
Max, for whatever reason, I have always found that the zinc plate tends to be a bit dull when it comes out of the plating bath. There are zinc brighteners that help to keep the part shiny but I don't have any yet. If you aren't really bothered with the appearance you could just dip it in the chromate and it would still be protected. Beer sounds good! 😁 Regards, Mark
No, it's not anywhere like chrome. It did come out better than I had hoped for though. I have done some brass door handles in a nickel cobalt plate which is as close as you can get to chrome in the home shop. You do need to do the preparation though. Plating of any sort will only highlight bad preparation. It is possible to do a copper strike first which tends to fill any scratches but I haven't actually tried that method. Regards, Mark
Have you tried to measure the thickness of the plating with a micrometer? Glad to see the zinc plated test piece added to your ongoing parkerizing evaluation. Also, you really have to be careful with dip... th-cam.com/video/RwPkAUBr4Sc/w-d-xo.html p.s. Have you tried clear anodizing a jeweled aluminum plate? Just wondering if that might help protect that lovely bandsaw table.
Jane Kits state that their chromate dips are far less hazardous than the industry standard versions. The guys who run the company are mostly vintage car enthusiasts and they started the company after realising that there are lots of people who want to be able to restore their own parts at home. The zinc plating definitely adds some thickness to the part but I haven't measured it to find out if it could mess with tolerances on mating parts. I haven't tried anodising any castings. Until recently I had been making my castings from unidentified scrap aluminium and some grades anodise poorly or not at all. There are always impurities in DIY castings too so it is probably that the anodised coating would take up dye differently to pure 6011 series alloy. If it was just to created a hardened anodised surface then I am sure it would help to improve the durability. Regards, Mark
Nah... no "need" to polish prior to nickle plating. Does have to be super clean, but no polish required. I used to sand blast robotic grippers prior to nickle plating for grip and corrosion resistance.
Most of the parts that I nickel plate are decorative so I do try to get a nice polish on them. For zinc plating I find that it is more of a functional coating. It actually looks good on parts with a bit of texture. Regards, Mark
Great informative video. I purchased the sink plating kit from Jane Kits and my parts are coming out looking new, but I have the brightened added, fish tank submersible heater in the solution and a fish tank agitator for the solution.
I did get a larger 50mm axle nut come out of the zinc mix the same dull grey that you show, but I figured out my Amps were not high enough to plate it correctly. I cleaned the part again, upped the Amps and it now looks like chrome.
I use the Caswell calculator to determine a parts area in square cm, then multiply that by 0.00625 to get the Amps required to correctly plate the item. Just keep adding the Amps required for each part placed in the bath and you should be good.
I bought my power supply as part of my kit and they do say to use the variable Amp function, not the variable volt function, this way you set the required Amps, and the voltage will chase that setting giving you the correct volts.
I had an issue early on with my zinc plating electrolyte. I inadvertently added all the brightener that was supplied with the kit and the parts always came out looking dull. However, you could polish the parts back to a high lustre with a fine, grey scotchbrite pad or some fine metal polish. The underlying zinc plate was good and it polishes well. I ended up completely replacing my electrolyte with a fresh batch and now the parts come out with a very bright finish. I don't know how true it is but I have read that it is almost impossible to calculate the surface area with any sort of precision. I sometimes use the CAD software to report the surface area but it can become meaningless if there are any machining marks or surface texture on the part. If you are interested you can Google "fractal coastline length". Basically, it states that surface irregularities will soon add up to infinity. I generally just set the voltage to 3 to 5V and set the current low (an intuitive guess) and then monitor the coating as it develops. One thing I was told by a plating expert was to never take the part out of the plating solution to inspect it. If you put the part back with the power on, it will lead to a possible delamination failure in the plated finish. I just bring the part up to the surface of the plating bath without breaking the surface so you can see if it has a shiny finish. I am glad you are getting good results with your home plating setup. I find it to be extremely rewarding to be able to put durable finishes on metal parts without having to pay a lot of money for a professional to do the work for you. I have used professional shops to plate parts and to anodise parts and they always do an excellent job but it's not always economical for small parts or small batches because there may be a "minimum charge" which is sometimes very expensive for a one off part.
Regards,
Mark
Great series Mark, I wish I had a teacher like you when I was at school.
Just watched a bunch of zinc plating videos and yours was the best by far Mark. Aussie, Aussie Aussie!
Thanks Peter. It's always nice to get positive feedback.
Regards,
Mark
Such a great video, Im currently beginning a car restoration and want to be able to restore my bolts in packages so they don’t get mixed up and this will work great! Thanks so much for the time to make a video on it! I’ll be ripping into it!
Also should try some gold plating haha that would be cool!
I have done some silver plating using one of those "Plug and Plate" kits sold by Caswell. It worked great and they do have a gold plating solution as well.
Regards,
Mark
Adding brightener will certainly help with getting a brighter deposit. Additionally, the brighteners typically work most effectively at higher current densities, so you may want to increase the current a bit. Obviously, too much current will cause burning (spongy, non-adherent deposit) on the edges.
Clear, concise information - no irritating music.
Thanks very much for taking the time to put this series together Mark. Very informative and excellent results.
THANK YOU MARK, I HAVE BEEN DEOING IT FOR YEARS, WOORKS WELL,. REGARDS FROM THE U.K.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I really enjoy watching restoration videos and it's awesome to be able to plate items yourself. Thanks for the videos!! The rings I make from coins are plated in brass, I also take coins that represent someones birthday and turn a penny to zinc, quarters to brass, and nickels to copper.
Mark- the huge temperature swing here does the same thing with steel parts and tooling. Massive difference between here and where I started, the desert in south Arizona. We cad plated helicopter parts commercially when doing overhauls by sending them to a propeller shop. Being aircraft, they had to go thru a process to relieve any embrittlement, but it tremendously lessened the chance of rusting. Sink looks like an alternative.
You're such a happy hobbyist, nice one....perhaps I should sleep now its 01:36! (or, maybe a digital clock build?)
Ha, I know what the secret piece of kit is! Saw your comment on Joe's channel.
Thank you for the plating vid. I've done this with circuit boards, didn't realize steel was very similar. I think the dull finish is just from thickness/soak time.
I have to get some zinc brightener for the plating bath. It helps to keep the zinc from going dull as it builds up. Yes, I have now got a Bridgeport. I actually made the video of it's arrival before this last episode of the metal finishing series. It should be out in a day or two. I have wanted one for a long time and I managed to purchase one of only three for sale here in Oz just as Covid 19 came after us. I had to buy the machine sight unseen but I actually got it running just today and it sounds great and everything works so that's a bonus. I have secretly envied Joe Pi and his ability to hog out massive cuts in difficult materials on his machine. Good times ahead I hope!
Regards,
Mark
a suggestion that some might find useful, because i live in an earthquake prone area and don't like blowing up power supplies, I make cages out of 2 liter soda bottles that i put a number of 1 inch holes in and depending on the shape of the part i am doing i either put the part in plastic cage or the anodes, it never has effected the process and it relieves that sinking feeling you always get in your stomach every time you want to leave while something is still in the tank plating......
Excellent video on Zinc plating. i ordered the book from Jane kits. I have a garage full of old motorcycles that will benefit from a little zinc plating to brighten the fasteners and other bits. Again, excellent joy Mark.
I found the book to be a very good guide and if I really get stuck I give them a call to clear up any issues I am having.
Regards,
Mark
Quiet a nice lesson and clearly shows with the observance on a few essential steps, just how easy and accessible the process is. 😊
Great series on plating Mark. I have lots of rusty machine bits I can now renew with confidence.
Always look forward to your videos.
What a great series of videos this has been. Thanks alot Mark!!
Good stuff Mark, many thanks. Looking forward to the 'How to zinc plate a Bridgeport' episode...
Stephen, I am currently wrestling with trying to decide if I should just get on and use the mill or start tearing it down to do a full restoration and repaint. I got the mill up and running today and everything seems to work OK except maybe for the coolant pump. Unfortunately the paint that is on it at present is not original and it looks like someone painted it with a brush. Eeeww!
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Hi Mark, I reckon deep down you've already decided what to do about the mill. Someone painted it WITH A BRUSH??? We all know you won't be able to walk in the workshop every day and look at that hideous carbuncle for long... it's only a matter of time until you sort it out properly, and that's the bit we're looking forward to 😊
G’day Presso, excellent series. Cheers, Peter
Great work Mark. Looked familiar, l just stripped mine down and cleaned up the stop bracket.
Cam
I have thoroughly enjoyed this series Mark, and learned much. Thank you so much for sharing!
very thorough video on home plating:) I wonder, when you talk about the cleaning of the parts, if not an ultrasonic cleaner is the best way to go, as it gets to all the nooks and crannies of a part, and is also less likely to possibly contaminate the part, and seeing how cheap those have become over the years, I figured it could be a good investment:)?
This is mostly how I clean my parts now. I use a solution of "Simple Green" cleaner and put the parts in a plastic bag or cup and suspend in plain water. My ultrasonic cleaner doesn't have a heater so I sometimes use hot or warm water if the parts might be contaminated with cutting oil or grease. It takes about 10 minutes to cycle the parts this way. However, a heated (hot) bath of alkaline cleaner is the industry standard.
Regards,
Mark
Really great series, Mark. Thanks.
Wow Mark ! that's a neat process !
Fantastic series! Thanks, Mark!
Hi Mark informative series, I worked for nearly 30 years for a metal finishing company over here in the UK and in the early years in worked at one of the companies within the group that did the commercial zinc plating and we played mainly fasteners in what was called bright zinc the parts never came of full always bright but if they did start to dull the chemical wizard would emerge from his cave take a look throw in a beaker of this and that and back to a bright finish and as you suggest then either dipped in the blue or yellow finish. I have to add that depending on the surface finish some parts could be mistaken for chrome.
Jane Kits do sell a zinc brightener which can be added a few millilitres at a time to help keep the parts shiny. I didn't bother buying it at the time I purchased the zinc plating solution but it's not expensive so I must get some. I did read a forum on the Caswell site a few nights ago and it seems like every second person was asking for advice on how to keep their parts shiny during plating. The reasons given for dull plate were many and varied. But you are correct. Zinc plated parts should have almost a mirror finish if everything is done properly.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 i never really took to much notice of the chemical side unless it impacted om my job which was Maintenance Manager our plant were acid zinc and with 6 monster to look after believe me I was kept busy that stuff eats it way through anything !
great job on the bandsaw table. Mark, I bought a bandsaw which has some rust on the table that's got some pits here and there. There's actually one spot off to the side that's maybe an inch and a half square thats pitted pretty good. If you decided the fix for this table was to take a layer off with machine tools, would the lathe be your go to? Or would you set up a fly cutter in the mill? I don't have a shaper. I do have a surface grinder but I've never ground cast iron and not keen to experiment on a bandsaw table I hope I can use. Thoughts?
Bobby, I ended up casting a new aluminium table for the little saw. I cast some lugs onto it so I could bolt it to the large faceplate on my Colchester lathe. I also sized the table so it would just clear the bed of the lathe. My mill would probably not be able to clean up the whole surface of the table with one pass and this would inevitably lead to a scrappy looking appearance. I have read that lathes will intentionally face a large piece of stock slightly hollow so that the resulting surface will sit flat against another truly flat part. Given that the little bandsaw is only for cutting up sheet stock and thin stock I didn't think it was going to be an issue. I can't really comment on surface grinders because I only ever used on once when I was at college but I believe they are quite capable of grinding cast iron well.
Regards,
Mark
Always touch the bar (connect the part) before touching the bath. To avoid passive zinc deposit that would compromise the adhesion of the further deposit.
Another good one, Mark!
Glad you enjoyed it
Regards,
Preso
nice job mate! thanks for sharing
Love the video. Thank you. Could you post the recipe to the bath and the volts/amps in the description. I keep rewinding and missing it.
Would love to see your take on copper plating. I have been trying to copper plate my clamps and vicegrips to protect them from weld spatter with little success.
interested in cold blue as a corrosion protection on tools I make but sourcing it at a reasonable price. blueing with the gun guys stuff entire machine parts would cost a lot.
I purchased the solution for the zinc plate electrolyte so I don't really know what it's composed of. Jane Kits sell a copper strike solution which can deposit very thick layers of copper but I haven't tried it yet. I have used some cold blue solutions before with mixed results. It tends to look good for a while but it soon wears off and goes a sort of dull brown colour. Parkerising is a hot chemical process which is way more durable and steel parts will go jet black and stay that way.
Regards,
Mark
Great watch thank's Mark. Wonder how the bandsaw mitre plating is holding up after two years?
Cheers
Pete' N.Z
It's still good.
Regards,
Mark
It would be great to see a corrosion test on these vs other methods like Parkerizing with some heated salt spray, etc. Great video though.
I have kept all those samples in my workshop and I plan to revisit the topic in a future video. None of the parts that I have parkerised have shown any sign of corrosion and even parts like a 4 jaw chuck key that takes a lot of wear and tear are still in good condition. It might be a different story if they were outside in the weather but then again parkerising is not the best solution for parts in those environments anyway. Hot dip galvanising is probably best for that.
Regards,
Mark
Hi Mark, Very helpfull set of vids, thank you for getting me started on Anodising & Electroplating...Q. Where did you get those Zinc Anodes? I have only been able to get Thin Sheet or Bolt on style Boat anodes so far.
I got my anodes from Jane Kits here in Australia. janekits.com.au
Regards,
Mark
Nice thanks
Looking up Jane Kits, and noted this.
""NOTE: Constant movement (not air) inside the plating bath is essential, it enables the chemical to mix and assists with distributing the metal irons around the electroplating bath more efficiently. Jane Kits has a product called an Agitator, which is a small impeller type pump, tested to survive inside the plating chemicals. It is strongly recommended to add an""
Nice video. Mate living in Central Qld, tell me some more about rust., 'sa real bugger, Hey!
I do need to get an agitator and it's on the shopping list. As is the zinc brightener which helps to improve the shininess of the plated parts. Yes, our sub tropical climate has a lot to answer for when it comes to destroying metal surfaces!
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Your test sample is not bad after 11 months, here in the corrosion capital of the world that would be only 2 days of leaving it out.
I used to work on aircraft, and Tectyl was a standard thing to use on all parts. Cases of the cans per month, and we also ordered it in 200l drums, and would dip whole parts in it for protection, as well as painting it in all cavities. Rifles in the armoury were always stored wrapped in greased cloth, as otherwise they would go black and rust solid in a month or two, so they were all drowned in it. My trainer was a marksman, so every week that pistol would be stripped down to parts, cleaned, oiled and polished after his outing. Even the ammunition left in the magazine as every day carry would be polished till it shone, along with the inside of the magazine, and the leather holster. Airfield has an altitude of zero feet, and at high spring tides your feet might be a little wet walking off the concrete.
Been a good informative little series Mark 👍
I wonder if you have ever though of or tried a dehumidifier? I'm less than 200m from the sea, next stop Antarctica, and have no problems in the shed. Even stuff left outside takes a long time to show corrosion.
I recall reading a series of articles in the Model Engineer magazine years ago where the writer made a dehumidifier from an old bar fridge. I think the notion was to have the evaporator exposed so it would collect the moisture in the air and then drain it outside. I have actually been in the shed just after the sun goes down and on really humid days you can see the sheen of moisture on the surface of some of the heavier chunks of metal in the shop. It's a real problem but I guess there is the compensation of living in a place with such a pleasant climate. I have been to Canada three times and it is a beautiful place but who'd want to live there in the winter?
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Cheap dehumidifier is to find an old split unit AC, and connect it in the shop so that the output air of the evaporator is sucked into the condenser, so that it cools the air, and dumps the moisture, and the cold air is then used to cool the condenser. that way the air coming out is ambient temperature ( just slightly hotter) and very much drier. If you find 2 outdoor units of the same sixe you can put them fan to fan, and then connect them together to make a dehumidifier as well, just needs a little bit of work to bypass the compressor in the one, and join them together piping wide, and then vacuum out and charge again.
Not going to win awards, but it works well to remove moisture, around 20l per hour, using a 1200 BTU unit when I did it. was more effective than just plain AC, though of course the room did run a lot hotter, not helped by the 22kW heater in it, but it at least got a lot of the moisture out that was being put in by it.
Insulation helps 😁. Mongrel job in a large tin shed I know but even just doing the roof would be a good thing. Maybe try a large fan an hour each side of sunset, just to get some airflow.
Agree about Canadia, us Tassie's start dreaming of Qld about now but living in AvE land.. no thanks. 5ish c is bad enuf, can't even contemplate -30.
Your bandsaw is to be envied!
Mark, Great series! I'll be using information from all of these "finishing" videos in my own shop. Have you tried the "color" dips on (hot dip) galvanized parts? I wonder if the "color dip" will add any extra level of protection to galvanized parts like gate hinges? Or would that surface have to be "prepared" somehow for the "color dip" to be effective?
Bob, there is an activator sold by Jane Kits which prepares the zinc for the chromate process. I haven't tried it but it would be interesting to see if the gold dip does actually colour the hot dip galvanised parts. I am thinking that if the zinc has been oxidised and looks a bit grey, you could strip the surface back with hydrochloric acid or nitric acid to give it a fresh surface. Nitric is really hard to get these days but hydrochloric is easy enough to get.
Regards,
Mark
thats great information.
Nice 👍. Are you using brighteners? I use the zinc solution from Jane Kits and parts come out looking as good as zinc plated bolts you'd buy - chrome like.
Though I do have trouble getting a consistent finish with the passivating. I find that the passivating stage is very prone to turning sh**.
Geoffrey, I was too cheap to buy the brightener. I just checked the other day and it's actually not that expensive. I must get some. I recall seeing your video on the process and that 's when I found out about Jane Kits. Strangely, I have never had a problem with the passivating but the zinc always comes out dull. I checked on the Caswell forums and it seems that half the queries were relating to dull finishes. I also read through the Jane Kits book and I can't find any reference to the voltage you are supposed to use. Maybe it's not that critical?
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 re voltage. I don't think it matters much. The zinc solution seems pretty forgiving. I lock my power supply somewhere between 1 & 5 amps. I just guestimate depending on how big the parts look. I use a 12v supply but it never gets close to that, normally hovering around 3ish volts I think. There is an acid Jane Kits sell to use between plating and passivating. I think it is necessary if you are using brighteners, but maybe not - I've always used it anyway.
Preso, I know it rains a lot in Queensland but the levee of oxidation is pretty high. Does it have anything to do with your proximity to the ocean (if you are) or could it be on a bench that needs a better ground? And thanks for the playlists. It makes viewing the series much easier.
William, we are about 20km inland from the coast but the main problem is our climate which is sub tropical. We get high humidity in the summer and my workshop is not really insulated or very well sealed (it's just a steel shed). When the sun goes down the temperature drops below the dew point and any metal surfaces get damp with condensation. Metal surfaces also get a coating of dust and fine metal particles which hold the moisture and help the corrosion process along. It doesn't help that I also have a connected wood shop so wood dust migrates everywhere.
Regards,
Mark
For what it's worth - I use these kits and I'm having real problems with flaking afterwards. Still trying to troubleshoot - I'm pretty sure I clean the parts well enough beforehand (no beading) so it could be that I'm using too much current (I get a slight/moderate fizz off the parts while I'm plating) or I have impurities in my zinc solution (which is definitely not clear like that - slightly orange coloured). However my parts do come out brilliantly shiny - Mark have you added enough brightener to your zinc solution? and kept it topped up?
Sam, in the Jane Kits book they advise to avoid taking the part out of the plating solution during the process. This can cause flaking and delamination of the plate. It's tempting to take it out just to check on the progress but evidently the interruption of current can create a boundary layer which can stop the next layer of plate from adhering. I didn't buy any brightener when I purchased the zinc plate solution so that could be why I am not getting the shiny finish. However, I did read the Caswell plating forum and it seems to be a common complaint and even Caswell don't have a definitive answer to the problem. Jane Kits advise that too much or too little brightener can have the same effect and they suggest adding a few ml's and then trying a test plate, then adding some more and so on. The only real way to get it right is to have a chemist analyse your solution. My problem is I don't do enough of it to refine the technique.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Thanks - and for such great videos. I do know that I had one set of plating that was shiny, the following set came out really dull (like Bunnings galvanised screws) so I added a few ml of brightener and the subsequent set came out super shiny again...
Is the flaking happening between layers of zinc, or between the substrate and the zinc? As Mark said, don't remove your part during the process or you can passivate the surface and the subsequent layer will have poor adhesion. If the flaking is all the way down to the substrate, then your part is not sufficiently clean and/or not activated before plating. You say that the part is clean and has no water beading, so I will suggest that you dip you part in a dilute acid solution to activate the surface. 10% hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid) should work for steel parts, but you will want to rinse the part after the acid very well. I'm not sure which type of zinc electrolyte is in the Jane kit, but if it is an alkaline zinc solution, then the acid will contaminate it. If the Jane kit is an acid zinc electrolyte, then a trace amount of the acid won't have much effect. Additionally, and this is probably not your case, but too much brightener can cause the surface to passivate and cause poor adhesion.
These days I prefer to oven the parts then vegetable oil them. Safer to breathe during and after if youre welding on it, also safer for the environment when you're done
I guess metal finishing techniques are like a tool box full of spanners. You use the one that fits. I like to be able to pick and choose which methods I think suit the situation. I do have a problem with rust in my workshop, mainly due to our subtropical climate and for me, zinc plating is a fairly bullet proof solution. However I do sometimes just use a cold blue or just leave the part bright. It depends on how often the part gets used and in what sort of environment.
Regards,
Mark
But have you done nickel plating? It's beautiful
Greg, I can do both nickel plating and nickel cobalt in my workshop. th-cam.com/video/cBtCLqOGy3g/w-d-xo.html
Nickel cobalt is as close as you can get to a chrome plate finish without using really toxic chemicals and metals. Nickel is a much warmer looking finish than chrome and you don't tend to see it much these days.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Sorry, I'd forgotten you covered nickel plating already.
How do i find the coloring dips ? how should i search for them please ?
I get my anodising dyes from Caswell Australia www.caswellplating.com.au/store/store.php/categories/anodizing-dyes but it seems that you can now buy dyes on Amazon www.amazon.com/Anodizing-Dye/s?k=Anodizing+Dye
I have only ever used the Caswell products and they are very good. It is very important to ensure that the dyes are kept at the correct PH range. Check out this page to see the correct PH for each Caswell colour forum.caswellplating.com/forum/anodizing-questions/3885-anodizing-dye-ph
Regards,
Mark
Driving me crazy, or am I missing something? All that and you still have an un-plated (pivot?) screw?
Ahhh! I was wondering when someone would pick that up. That screw is actually a set screw to clamp a sliding stop bar in place. The next time I have the cold bluing kit out I will do it for you. 😁
But how much are those power supplies?
Jane, I bought mine on Ebay a few years ago and I recalled paying under AU
$75 for it. However they are now averaging about AU$145 plus shipping in some cases. www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gophert-CPS-3010-Adjustable-DC-Switching-Power-Supply-0-30V-0-10A-AC100-264V/264347645172?hash=item3d8c58f4f4:g:FMMAAOSwD9dbZ7aj
They are a good unit though and I have found mine to be quite reliable.
Regards,
Mark
Mark, Many thanks for all your videos. I would like to do some of these processes soon. Is it necessary to polish/rub the parts with steel wool every time before passivation? or can the parts just be washed off? Hopefully someday I can buy you a beer if we ever cross paths. Cheers Max
Max, for whatever reason, I have always found that the zinc plate tends to be a bit dull when it comes out of the plating bath. There are zinc brighteners that help to keep the part shiny but I don't have any yet. If you aren't really bothered with the appearance you could just dip it in the chromate and it would still be protected. Beer sounds good! 😁
Regards,
Mark
You live close to the sea?
About 20km from the coast but the main culprit is our sub tropical climate and the high humidity we get here in the summer.
Regards,
Mark
Hi Mark where could I email you?
My email address can be found the "about" tab on my YT channel.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Presling Sorry Mark it doesn't show up in the about section. Regards Frank
@@woodworker4063 OK. There is a little button that says "view email address" but you can contact me at mark.presling@gmail.com
Regards,
Mark
at 24:32 .......thereabouts......Chrome ???
No, it's not anywhere like chrome. It did come out better than I had hoped for though. I have done some brass door handles in a nickel cobalt plate which is as close as you can get to chrome in the home shop. You do need to do the preparation though. Plating of any sort will only highlight bad preparation. It is possible to do a copper strike first which tends to fill any scratches but I haven't actually tried that method.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks for the clarification.....cleared a few cobwebs !!!
Have you tried to measure the thickness of the plating with a micrometer? Glad to see the zinc plated test piece added to your ongoing parkerizing evaluation. Also, you really have to be careful with dip... th-cam.com/video/RwPkAUBr4Sc/w-d-xo.html
p.s. Have you tried clear anodizing a jeweled aluminum plate? Just wondering if that might help protect that lovely bandsaw table.
Jane Kits state that their chromate dips are far less hazardous than the industry standard versions. The guys who run the company are mostly vintage car enthusiasts and they started the company after realising that there are lots of people who want to be able to restore their own parts at home. The zinc plating definitely adds some thickness to the part but I haven't measured it to find out if it could mess with tolerances on mating parts. I haven't tried anodising any castings. Until recently I had been making my castings from unidentified scrap aluminium and some grades anodise poorly or not at all. There are always impurities in DIY castings too so it is probably that the anodised coating would take up dye differently to pure 6011 series alloy. If it was just to created a hardened anodised surface then I am sure it would help to improve the durability.
Regards,
Mark
Nah... no "need" to polish prior to nickle plating. Does have to be super clean, but no polish required. I used to sand blast robotic grippers prior to nickle plating for grip and corrosion resistance.
Most of the parts that I nickel plate are decorative so I do try to get a nice polish on them. For zinc plating I find that it is more of a functional coating. It actually looks good on parts with a bit of texture.
Regards,
Mark
24:00 Don’t touch with your bare hands....you’re touching with your bare hands!?!
Pat, it may have appeared that way but I was holding the part with a gloved hand and rubbing it with steel wool in my right hand.
Regards,
Mark