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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มี.ค. 2022
- Let's have a closer look at the impressive project that brought German Car and Aircraft industry together: The Mercedes T80
How did the project start?
How did they structure and fund the project?
Which engineering challenges did the engineers face?
And which tricks and innovations do we see here for the first time before they were used in motorsport decades later?
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Porsche's Lost Supercar: The Auto Union P52
• AUTO UNION P52 (1934) ...
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It's crazy to think about how much earlier race car aerodynamics could have advanced if it weren't for WW2
You mean were it not for germans who supported a deranged maniac.
This car was designed before WWII.
@@scootergeorge7089 he's saying that without ww3 aero on F1 cars etc would have developed earlier
Generally though, WW2 developed aero understanding and funding
@@bradleycruse2763 - Other than some work by German engineers in swept wing technology, I don't see it.
Purely analog, MECHANICAL traction control.
In the 1930s.
I would love to have the technical drawings for that system!
The 2002 Honda CR-V has a mechanical/hydraulic system to engage the rear wheel drive when the front wheels are slipping. The part that compares wheel speeds is within the rear differential housing if you want to look it up.
Edit: One hydraulic pump is geared to the drive shaft (front wheels) and a second hydraulic pump is geared to the rear differential. When one pump is spins faster than the other, a differential pressure is created that applies a hydraulic clutch pack that transmits torque to the rear wheels. The torque is proportional to the difference in front and rear speeds.
The front and rear axles both have an open differential.
@@bdykes7316 That is a viscous coupling within the driveline. I would like to know how Porsche compared speeds of driven and non-driven wheels.
@@earlwebster5351 would be pressure driven . With a regulator valve . As a wheel spins it drives a pump that engages , disengages
@@bdykes7316 Huh, very interesting.
@@earlwebster5351 isn’t that somewhat like VW awd?
Seeing it at the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Stuttgart was quite shocking. its very large and looks a little uncanny, almost like it isn't man-made! A marvelous piece of Engineering
i feel the same. Just was there last week. Stunning thing.
I’ve always thought the 30’s delivered some of the most avant- gard designs and brains. In most design aspects, from architecture to engineering.
I love modernism architecture! Heck look at the fighter airplane the best fighters from 1931 were completly and absoutely outdated by 1939
The Golden Arrow is a special LSR car from the 30's... Visually prefiguring modern racecar designs by virtue of artisrty, physics, instinct.
It's just up the road from me in Beaulieu, an incredible thing!
@@1DEADBEEF1 Well same with fighters of 39 after the world war. It just felt like such a more exciting time in terms of technological advances, so much more happened in so much less time.
If it weren’t for WW1 and the WW2 it inevitably doomed us for, we’d probably have been on Mars in the 20th century already
@@Icetea-2000 well it was ww1 and 2 that only pushed such incredible technological advancement. It was the cold war that ultimately put us on the moon.
@@Redh0und Yeah, I’ve been thinking about this too in the past, but in the end it’s all about competition. Sure, war definitely induces competition greatly, but that’s not the only way to have competition. And especially in World War 2, along with the progress it brought, so much progress was destroyed as well towards the end of the war with europe being bombed to the ground.
The question is, for example would scientists in Germany in the 40s have come up with jet powered aircraft and harnessing nuclear power anyway or was it due to the war? Hard to say, and we can never know for sure. But there’s also no reason to assume scientists wouldn’t come to the same conclusions anyway, war or not. If they’re working on it, they’re working on it. There’s always a base level of competition due to the nature of the scientific environment.
And the cold war wasn’t even a war, it was an arms race, another non-violent form of competition. It was Kennedy pushing scientists to work faster with his claim to put a man on the moon before the end of the decade, not a war. In fact, a war would definitely have halted such an endeavor.
What would be interesting to know is whether we would be far more advanced if we would be in a constant war the last decade that isn’t total destruction but conventional. There’s obviously nowhere to know the alternatives because we can’t look in parallel universes, we can only see ours. But I doubt it, competition in research is always existent anyway.
Man that steel tube underbody support is a work of art. With these beautiful sheet metal knot plates and sweeping bends. Craftsmanship was on a different level back then.
The skins were flat sheets of aluminum or steel, beaten with special hammers over a wooden form, or sometimes freestyled over sandbags. I can't even.
Coach work is still being done.
youtube.com/@bespokecoachworks8919
I really like how you don't just explain how modern race cars work but also interesting old ones
hole hell , they reached 500+ km/h in 1930s ! that is insane engineering.
Thank you for fantastic video yet again.
_Would have_ reached, it never got off the dyno.
You can lead the horse to the water trough but, you can't make him drink
@@raffriff42 in 1938 Rudolf Caracciola reached 432.7 km/h on a public road, with a streamlined Mercedes F1 car. It had a 5.5 litre V12 engine with only 726 hp.
The T80 had a drag coefficient of 0.18 and over 3000 hp. Heavy as it was, 500 km/h was an absolute given. 600kmh was a question mark, but no utopia. It would depend on the wheels and tires holding up.
@@DolleHengst and no strong winds at the test day or would crash like the car from Bernd Rosemeier (RIP)
also the record from Caracciola stood unbroken for yearly 8 decades on public roads before it was broken 2017 on german roads again by a Koeniggsegg Agera S
@@nightstorm5914 True - no winds would be preferred. Also: quite an achievement on public roads, even if it was an Agera RS that broke the record, in Nevada, USA, in november 2017 (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenigsegg_Agera 😉)
That T80 looks absolutely amazing.....half aircraft, half spaceship. What a piece of engineering in the 1930's. Mercedes-Benz have some back-catalogue! Unlike any other manufacturer in history!
As a child, I had a Mercedes Benz book by Shirley Haines that featured the T80 on one of its pages. I remember staring at it for hours on end, thinking it was the coolest looking car ever made. I still think it’s one of the most beautiful cars ever conceived. It’s a shame it didn’t trial, but I admire everything it was made to do: Nothing screams “serious driver” more than piloting a car at its top speed.
As a German I strongly disagree, no one but an American would say that
@@privatesgooglekonto7638 I’m half Polish, quarter English and quarter French, and live in Canada, but thank you for your input. I look forward to all the clips you’ll upload of you piloting your T80 replica down the Autobahn at 700+km/h sustained.
It is all incredible, both from scientific and artistic aspects (I was blown away by a 450HP+ short-wheelbase hotrod, so can only imagine something at this level). This brilliance seems to support the legend of German engineering. Might I suggest the phrasing, "the aerodynamics of the car were on another level". I apologize for being pedantic, but I was raised by two school teachers.
Thanks!
You seem young lmao
Great to see analysis of this historical car.
Best Motorsport Channel on You Tube
Amazing. I didn't know that german auto makers Opel and Mercedes were already using wings for downforce in the 30's.... F1 only started to use wings in the late 60's!
Yes, Opel even in the 1920's. I will cover a bit more of wings in motorsport in future videos.
They weren’t using them for racing.
Love the in depth description
Wow, what an interesting video! So much still to learn about motorsport history. Thanks for helping this not getting lost in time! Best regards from Belgium.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Tolles Video. Bitte mehr von Vorkriegs Technik im Automobilbau. Abo + Like !
Fantastic video!! Thank you
Thanks so much for sharing. 😉👌🏻
Excellent research!
Really enjoy the historical engineering videos, keep them coming!
Thanks so much for this video! I love this era of racing. Pure unfiltered insanity.
Super erklärt, danke !
Ingenious design and features for that Mercedes land speed record car.
Interesting to learn about Ferdinand Porsches history too.
Thank you.
You should read about his ‘other’ history…
Badass....love hearing mention of Porsche.
Wow. The Body Airflow was almost 2 decades ahead on this rig! Impressive!
Super interesting, thank you!
You are welcome!
Sick video. Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Fantastisch!
Nice video. I would not have minded if u'd have gone into the mechanical traction control or why an inverted V was never adopted in cars further.
That is some insane tech for the 1930s.
Also loved the video, you just earned yourself a new sibscriber
Great, thank you and welcome!
Such a great narration voice and a very interesting story.
Glad you enjoyed it!
excellent.
Well made video
Thanks!
wonderful
Brilliant
Ooh this video is such gold.
Really puts some perspective on technology of the late 30s..it was surprisingly qdvanced, and this car was absolutely on another level. What a shame it didn't run..
it did run, 650Km/h on the autobahn, there are videos of it.
@@PhantomWoIf really, awesome. you have a link?
Very nice video and a great analysis about such a strange old machine. I hope we can see more videos like that about historical machines :)
More to come!
@@BSport320 Niiiiice!
Thats just insane to think about the knowledge they already had back then on aerodynamic and crazy big engine manufacturing
Super interessant! 👌🏻 Gerne mehr aus der Zeit. Als Kontrast zum Thema Top Speed wären auch die aktuellen Fahrzeuge von Koenigsegg, SSC etc. sehr interessant! 😬
It’s amazing how speed record cars hit a wall so early and never really made any huge breakthrough since. Sure, they got faster, but not by massive leaps and bounds. Once they figured out that tuna=fast, it was impossible to make something much better than what nature had already designed.
If your talking about cars with engines they advanced but there is little to no reason to make a homologation special like these anymore people are more interested in fasted road car and fast car (rocket/jet engine)
Pretty amazing it wasn't trashed during the war. This some study in aerodynamics.
I know you are more aerodynamically inclined, but I would have appreciated a brief explanation of why the A engine was chosen by Mercedes for the planes over a V type engine.
Otherwise I loved the video, thank you for the interesting and quality videos as always!
Thanks, good point but I wanted this to be about the T80. A and V engines is enough stuff for another video.
@@BSport320 That is more than fair enough. Thank you for your reply and thanks for always putting out interesting content
There are many theories and hypothesis about the upside down V engine.
The more plausible one is that this is easier for maintenance.
The most complicated part, the engine head is the lowest part of the engine and the maintenance crews won't have to climb to the top of the plane to fix the engine.
The other hypothesis is that it's better for packaging and visibility.
The narrow crank case allows the engineers to put machine guns besides it.
BF109 has two machine guns in the nose.
V12 engine is really long and it blocks the view of the pilot when take off or landing.
The narrow nose has a little bit more visibility than conventional V engine.
@@user-om9gy3mg7x That's quite interesting, I didn't know about any of this. Thanks!
@@charliemolda297 You're welcome
These videos have more in depth explanation.
You can check it out.
th-cam.com/video/H1YLwRQLB_I/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/e7R39tJ7psw/w-d-xo.html
Now we know where the idea for the stubby side wings of the W13 come from!
The inverted V engine is interesting, perhaps today's Ilmor V6 could be inverted to hoover up air from under the car...
That's the one featured in Cars On The Road 😮
it’s crazy how much we improved like now we have a medium sized engine that goes 500kmh but back than they had to use 2 massive engines just to reach 400 or 500 kmh
The mechanical traction control!
Can someone tell me what is the car at 2:10 in the lower left corner
Yes, but wings on cars were not widely used at the time, it was Opel who invented the idea and Mercedes was number two to use it.
Opel's wings were also adjustable from the inside of the car while driving, while Mercedes are fixed.
Opel also used an electric accelerator pedal in the rocket cars in 1928.
In the end of the 1960s, the wings returned to racing cars and then to ordinary standard cars after a racing driver had seen pictures of the Opel Rocket Cars.
However, Opel then discovered on its third rocket car that the wings should sit in the front of the car - as on an F1 car - and not in the middle, this knowledge has apparently not been perceived by Mercedes.
Very true and this will be part of a future video about the history of wings.
@@BSport320 well looking at the drawing of the T80 and its aerodynamic features I would say don't pusch it that car is a death trap with that aerodynamic balance it will get air born for a short time before landing on the roof without the diffuser the car wold have a okish balace of down force because the wings ar 50/50 front and rear downforce so they don't press the front down but the back has a huge diffuser behind the wheels not between them that increases the leverage and at the speeds they wanted to crack it Shurly cold lift the front a bit caching the air flow under it .. Mhm and now I'm wondering how the mechanic traction control would behave in that situation
The Opel cars had a center of thrust behind both center of gravity and center of pressure. Only a matter of time until they killed someone.
showing us childhood pictures like wasn't 12 years old 4 years ago.
Can you cover gran Turismo vision gt cars? They gave ridiculous aero setup thats definitely not normal by today standard, im curious how an expert like you think of those aero setup.
Would have been interesting to see if exiting the radiator air downwards would have worked and not caused too much lift. Cobb's Railton Special used ice to cool the Napier Lion Aero-engines and no radiators, thus reducing drag.
The use of ice is still popular in Bonneville speed record cars to this day.
Mercedes/auto union already used ice to cool the engine in 1930's
Can you do a video on kammtail vs teardrop/rounded aero concepts in '60s cars?
Yes, that's on my list already but it was a few decades earlier.
really well done, thx.
Is that a monocoque for the driver? looks like sheetmetal and tube frame to me, hard to tell tho
Yes the driver was in a Aluminium tub
Is the engine sound in the intro the V16 brm f1 car?
What about the two different compression ratios?
I love mercedes T80
For being a 1930s project
This is a surprisingly impressive car.....
It still is to this day
And it scares me how Germans
Over engineer stuff
Will you do an analysis on the new Bykolles PMC Hypercar?
Already on my list :)
Looks fast. Except for the drag inducing wing...
And all this with the your german accent. Einfach herrlich.
Engineering needs to be explained with German accent 😅
Is that a couple of Saltire's on your sheild/coat of arms?.
What's there significance?.
To anybody interested.
The channel owner, although sounding German, I suspect has Scottish genes since I found out the name of the channel has thy Scots surname of Buchan.
It’s the DB603 engine turbocharged??
this thing has run 650Km/h on the autobahn in 1938. mercedes has the original in their vault, including the transmission and all, they build an exact copy of the T80 too. i think it would be great if mercedes produces the T80, that would be the fastest production car.
The T80 was never driven at speed.
Not a "production car".
@@39PSIOnTheDaily ... which is a lie after you deleted the videoproof of it.
@@PhantomWoIf Huh?
i know im a year late but this literally looks like something you would see in a ksp minimal weight to (planet here) video
Are you gonna make a video about the Bykolles Hypercar after they finally showed the real car?
yes, working on it!
Saw the t80 last week in the Mercedes Benz museum such a masterpiece it’s so sad that it just hangs on a wall after you finished tour and is not displayed properly
What more do you want? Did you somehow miss the body-off chassis? After you finished tour? What are you talking about?
Dude the drag coefficient was 0.18. That is an amazing feat of engineering especially since the technology is nearly 90 years old! Yes the nazis were evil but the engineering marvel of that era was astonishing
🤠
What type of tyres could cope with over 400 km/h in the 30s! Unbelivable!
German Grand Prix cars often used Continental race tyres. And speeds of around 400km/h were not too unusual. E.g. if we look back at the 1937 AVUS race or the annual record weeks before the Grand Prix season started.
And everything ended happily ever after.
Man sagte damals wie heute nicht "new German highway". Das heisst "Autobahn". Anglizismen mag ich nicht.
Never seen 'grumpy racing' 😂😂
You did tell us how fast it actually went in the end
Perhaps because it never ran? Slight interruption caused by WW2.
fastest Porsche of its days and I think still is
The DB-601 all the way to the DB-603A are not A engines according to history.
The DB series of engines are Turbo Supercharged inverted V12's
Interesting how downforce as a concept wasn't explored more immediately after the post-war period.
Because no one knew about downforce much less how to exploit it? Either passively with wings or actively like the Chapparal.
¿maybe a Λambda engine?
Die grosse Frage ist die areodynamische Stabilität des T80. Wäre er fahrstabil gewesen oder hätte er "abgehoben"?
Today's record breaking cars have solid wheels because rubber tyres (even today), will not safely go over 300mph.
Every part of this technology made ot possible for Germany to make a war effort.
The Db603 is a beast of a warbird engine😂
What speed did it achieve, then?
none, The Germans were busy tearing Europe apart with tanks
spoke wheels....think about that
Who would have thought, the batmobile originated in Germany!
Using same engine powered many bombers, and fighters during the war; DB 603
Thank you for this wonderful journey into the past. And it is really interesting, that, given everything the Third Reich had, without it, technical development would have been so much more advanced at that time and, today.
Glad you enjoyed it!
One wonders why a 3500hp A 12 motor didn’t find its way into an aircraft. Possibly concerns about durability?
It did. There was a great shortage of the engines so fewer of them made it into the air.
Moo moo po po go fast
so if it ran, what was it theoretically capable of ??
I think only the people involved really know, but as we learned the deformations of the spoke rims limited the speed to around 500km/h. But that's nothing that couldn't have been solved with some more development time.
calling it a instead of inverted v.... thats new... but ok it makes sense. but... what if real A was engine with a cylinder head and 2 pistons and 2 crankshafts... hmmm...
That car was about 40 years ahead of it's time. It have some ground effect. It have wings to keep it on the ground. It have traction control.
THANKS4GIVING
Blows my mind that it took about 60 years to build something that would even get to half of these speeds again. What happened to the engineers paperwork/files? Maybe theyre saving them to continue to money grab from consumers and have something new every 4 years to sell.
If you watched this your 155 mph Audi a8 might need a little love.❤
As crianças do supra Toyota mk4 calaram a boca ☠
In today's day and age so to speak, we don't refer inverted engines as A engines, we call them inverted V engines, the fine example of which you have showed when it comes to the Bf-109
Here in Australia we call the V engines inverted A engines though.
@@robambrose4199 Straight up troll there.
Ignoring.
Here we call that comment a "joke" lol
@@TheOneandOnlyGodHydra One that I of all people interpret differently to the rest.
@@TheOneandOnlyGodHydra Thank-you, it was a joke. I've never even been to Australia - whoosh,
What you want, so I become wgat you want.
an A engine?? its called in inverted V.
You don't explain why the T80 never ran ...
anticlimax! HAHAHAH