@6:54 really interesting stuff right there! but please please please guys, rework the auto generated subtitles! not hate, but its really hard to understand kriegor's lovely french accent. i was searching for a term for the classic beat em up perspective and just spent half an hour googling for "bell perspective". XD but now i got it! its "belt perspective"! so happy to finally find out that there is a term for that. so a big merci to kriegor! 😊💜
Very well done. I'm old enough to have grown up with Double Dragon and Renegade both at the arcades and consoles. Just to put it in perspective, Double Dragon was the Street Fighter 2 of beat em ups at the arcades. At least where I was from. All my friends, neighborhood kids, and kids from school would be talking about it. Sharing strategies and just bragging at how "great" they were at Double Dragon. Now, I'm looking forward to, part 2, the 90s era, which imo is the best era for the genre.
Double Dragon was popular where I grew up as well, but it was NOWHERE near as popular as Street Fighter 2. I'd say even Final Fight was more popular than Double Dragon. And while not a beat'em up, Golden Axe was also way more popular. I'm not downplaying the popularity of Double Dragon but those games were god-tier level of popularity here while DD was S-tier.
@@drlight6677 Where I'm from, Double Dragon and Golden Axe were bigger than Final Fight. Although I think TMNT was the biggest of all because of the license and 4-player element.
I love how in-depth this and your contents goes. From STGWeekly, ShmupJunkie, Mark's. One thing i really enjoy on SHMUP channels is that the community really knows how to go technical and really appreciate that the "minor" things on games is what makes them real good.
Excellent video. Thank you. It's refreshing that the channel rarely indulges in nostalgia when discussing older games and instead focuses mainly on gameplay mechanics.
For someone like me who loves beat em ups, but doesn't know their history and legacy very well, this video was incredible. It's unbelievable how Final Fight was influential for the whole media, and still is to this day. Kriegor is very knowledgeable, it is a pleasure to listen to him ! (and also a blast to read *wink wink*)
Always love your content. Your videos are always aimed at the true fans instead of most TH-cam channels which regurgitate the same boring stuff and always feel like “baby’s first game.” I’ve been hoping so long that you do a Sin and Punishment 2 video really going in depth on it. The thought and effort that went into that game is incredible and so many people missed out. It’s the reason I’ll always keep my Wii. The motion controls were fantastic. People mention the original but the sequel is better in every conceivable way. Sorry this is off topic!
I'm really glad you are connecting with the vibe and the style of the channel!! And yes, I will absolutely cover sin and punishment 2, i love that damn game and have a lot to say about it. It will happen this year!
I'm surprised and also not surprised to see Kriegor here. We've already spoken on the subject of Beat Them Ups on French forums on several occasions so it's not really a surprise to see him on a TH-cam video on the subject. I remember a disagreement we had on Final Fight being the best BTU of all times (he thinks so, and I don't). He is a true BTU passionate and extremely knowledgeable. Great video, very comprehensive. I'm looking forward for part 2!
@@TheElectricUnderground the fun part is that I thought about asking ask him if he knew your channel (I had a feeling he would) but it never came in the conversation. And then I see him here. lol
@@KrieGor27 Hé salut, j'espère que ça va. Il ne faut pas s'en faire, tous les habitués du forum se sont fait ban au moins une fois. ^^ Et sinon j'ai pas vraiment de meilleur, mais ceux qui tournent le plus chez moi c'est SoR4, Denjin Makai 2, SoR2, Cadillacs & Dinosaurs... Ca me peine un peu de pas avoir de BTU Neo Geo dans mes favoris mais en général je les trouve trop basiques (Mutation Nation, Robo Army, Burning Fight...) et je me suis un peu ennuyé sur Sengoku 3 qui est pourtant selon moi le meilleur de la machine. Et Final Fight dans tout ça? Pour faire court, je le classe dans les tops mais il rate les premières marches parce que même si sa recette est très équilibrée j'en attends un peu plus sur le contenu (plus de persos, plus de coups, plus de mécaniques, plus d'environnements), même si je le préfère d'une courte tête à FF3 qui coche plus de cases mais manque de personnalité, d'impact et d'un peu de rigueur.
@@kathleendelcourt8136 et d'ennemis. Le problème de Final Fight 3, c'est ce peu d'ennemis à l'écran et le fait qu'ils aient en plus de grosses barres de vie. Ca rend le jeu un peu mou. Je l'adore sinon, point de vue gameplay. Un très bon BTU 16 bits. Sengoku 3, son soucis pour moi, c'est que les mêmes vagues d'ennemis se répètent et se répètent, ça n'en finit plus. Ils ont en plus souvent un comportement assez basique et, là aussi, trop de vie. Les combos sont sympas et j'aime le fait qu'on puisse choisir entre dommage/portée avec l'arme blanche et combo throw (s) avec le main nue mais rien que pour son battle design, je lui préfère les 2 premiers Sengoku (qui, sur ce point, sont excellent). Techniquement, Final Vendetta est un BTU Neo Geo donc, pour moi, c'est lui désormais le n°1 de la plateforme. Mais si on considère que c'est de la triche, alors je donne la couronne au premier Sengoku. La console n'est pas très réputée pour la qualité de ses BTU. En tout cas, c'est sympa de voir CPC représenté dans cette section commentaire. Je pensais que tu venais de JVC car j'ai eu plusieurs messages là-bas de personnes qui m'ont reconnu. Maintenant, je me demande qui tu es sous cette identité !
Thanks Kriegor for making me appreciate one of my fav games even more : D Final Fight is insanely well designed. The interaction between you & the enemies due to how knockdowns/throws/etc. work gives the whole combat a nice sense of momentum and interconnectedness - you're not just reacting to enemy behavior and poking them, you're actively thinking ahead and setting up favorable situations, knocking enemies down, grouping them up, cornering them, etc. The whole game is also incredibly consistent in terms of its rules (besides Haggar's insta-throw combo, no clue what triggers that), it's not like TMNT games where it's hard to tell what the fuck is happening with hitstun - the hit detection is generous, the hitstun and knockdowns are clear & lengthy. The enemies are so aggressive & dangerous, the sprites are so big and levels so claustrophobic that it really highlights all these crowd control elements. Even later Capcom beat em ups aren't as good at this IMO. Mainly cause they beef up your movesets, increase the size of the play area and make enemies more docile generally. So while you can still play tactically there's not much need, you're one good jump away from resetting the situation. Good point regarding devs being too afraid to put impossible modes in games, that's really something big that's lacking in a lot of retro style games. Even shmups are really restrained compared to some of the insane shit that was going on in the arcades...for the most part. Also, isn't Tecmo Knight technically the first mounted combat game? I guess the mount there is built into the character, but still.
Yeah modern devs are way into the idea of accessibility over longevity. A lot of new beat em ups can be breezed through over a weekend, even on hard mode and then your sort of done.
@@TheElectricUnderground I guess for a lot of indie devs just getting people to play their games feels like an achievement so they're afraid of alienating them with unreasonable & seemingly unbalanced difficulty. Back in the days the devs knew their games were hot shit and that players would put up with a lot because there wasn't anything as badass on the market. Some modern-ish games are still like that, it's the whole promise of Ninja Gaiden after all - we'll give you the coolest most intense spectacle you'll ever experience, you'll put up with any ridiculous crap we cook up!
Thank you Bog Hog. I think Tecmo Knight was released some months after Golden Axe. About Final Fight, it would be the matter of another video but it does have enemies that feel more distinct. They all cover their niches so each set of encounters ends up being highly memorable, something few games have replicated. Either because they were afraid of going as far as having enemies sliding below your jabs or jumping above you. Or because the PCs dominate the screen too much, usually not just because they are fast but because they remain highly mobile when they attack (typical of OpenBor stuff). Or even because they restrain themselves to propose a more coherent progression (AvP not having marines and aliens paired together for example). Also the thing with Final Fight is that even though it cements the genre, it is still today its own thing thanks to how heavy-handed they have been when it comes to giving s (a bit like you with Gunvein ;) ). Haggar's gameplan in particular is like nothing you see in any other BTU outside maybe The Ninja Warriors Again (and Resident Evil 4/5). You're often happy being surrounded as as long as you're having something at jab's range, you can remain pretty safe. His s after the suplex extand to its first jab at which point he can suplex again. It looks broken, but it feels so good and is so addictive.
@@KrieGor27 It seems like they came out the same month (US ver of Tecmo Knight came out before the JP one), cant find more detailed info sadly. Would be pretty cool if Tecmo could have the first mounted bmup achievement though Its a general trend of the genre that extended into the 3D era - everything from arena size to player mobility/attack options got buffed...while enemies either remained the same or even got downgraded. I find that my favorites have this great balance of player vs enemy power, either with the use of player limitations (Final Fight, God Hand) or making EVERYTHING strong and fast as fuck (Ninja Gaiden 2). Also yes FF enemy roster is unmatched outside of maybe SOR2. Not only do they have unique attacks but they also have very different movement patterns. For example Ive always loved how J does footsies just out of range and quickly moves in to attack, then moves out. He could have been a standard boring popcorn enemy, but instead even his design is dynamic and challenges you in unique ways. And it only work as well as it does because your PC can't zoom around the arena, jump 20 feet and do run attacks. This sorta thing would not fly in Punisher or Cadillacs. Blessed game
@@boghogSTG Even if Tecmo Knight would have came out first, the way I see it, it's more like you can switch between two playable characters à la Sengoku. It's not an interactable mount that offers you a new move set until you get rid of it. I completely agree with your sentiment. But if a game like Final Fight came out now, even with the best graphics, animations, etc. both journalists and the general audience would dislike the fact that they feel trapped all the time with no parry/dodge/run mechanic to help them. You would have to propose a lot of difficulty settings and a level by level approach just like SOR4 did. Though I look forward to such things. There's such a timeless pleasure in Final Fight and its many many clones. I find it more elegant and interesting than your typical combo heavy/pattern dodging 2D or 3D modern action game. That's how I ended up replaying most of the BTU from the arcade era.
I assume this Kriegor is the same Kriegor who posts on shmups forum. Very informative guy and always a pleasure to get his input. Until a year or two ago, I really didn't "get" Final Fight. I had played it as part of numerous collections, and I enjoyed it. But I just assumed it was an unfair arcade game. I didn't understand that Final Fight pretty much single-handedly set down every rule to making a good beat em up. I mean, outside of Vendetta, I can't think of many truly excellent beat em ups that didn't at least take some design elements from Final Fight. Final Fight's enemy placement is superb. Each enemy has a defined role but, as Kriegor said, they're never pigeonholed into doing "one und only VON" thing. Holly Wood is a brilliant enemy and an absolute bastard. The motherfucker can fly across the screen, he can throw knives, he can perform a super fast attack at close ranges... Whatever you don't want him to do is what he will do. And then you have the Andores and Slashes, who seem a little more sedate... But if they get their game plan started, they can absolutely rip your lives away. Poison and Roxy force you to learn the combo throw system. Without mastery of a timely backthrow, they will catch you ever time when you're occupied with a pack of enemies. Kriegor already mentioned the amazing characters. Cody, Guy and Haggar all play differently. Cody with his knife game opens up a new dimension of whup-ass for those who like weapons. With invincible throws, a character like Haggar makes perfect sense. Guy is the only one who doesn't seem as fun to me, since he's just "a fast dude." Cody feels fast enough (well, he doesn't, but nobody does in FF.) Maybe there's something about Guy I'm missing. On the difficulty, Final Fight is hard as balls but mostly fair. I still think some of the enemy i-frames are kind of shitty and the game breaks its own rules sometimes (the cage match Andore battle for example, as they look like normal Andores but have way more i-frames during specific animations.) But the game gives you so many tools it's hard to complain too much.
You guys made me go back and look at the genre again. Really good episode and timing. Found the Capcom arcade 1 half off and has some of the games mentioned I never played
As someone who has played Double Dragon and River City Girls but not the older Kunio-kun games, I was shocked to find Misuzu at 8:03 It's crazy to see how much stuff has been carried over three decades!
Misuzu is recurring character in most Kunio games. River City Girls uses characters from the entire universe, even Combatribes gets brought back. Too bad RCG's gameplay isn't as good as Combatribes, but at least RCG is better than modern Japanese made Kunio games.
Well THAT was educational! Had no clue about Samurai and it was great to hear a Final Fight fan explain to me why that game is so important even if I disagree. You'll have to excuse me, I hate Capcom fanboys and think Final Fight gets more credit than it deserves. Of course I say that as a Double Dragon fanboy and as this retrospective showed, that game was REALLY influential and I hate how often it gets dumped on by Final Fight fans. Personally, I'd rather play ANY Double Dragon than Final Fight (even Wander of the Dragon). BUT! I realize there's actually a cultural divide here. Where I grew up, Double Dragon, Golden Axe, and ESPECIALLY TMNT were bigger than Final Fight...but those are all VERY Western games. Made in Japan, but appealing to Western aesthetics and thus were popular here but not in Japan. Final Fight, meanwhile, was HUGE in Japan and was voted the best Arcade game in magazines before SF2 came out so I do have to concede its influence on the genre. Also, wow, 1989 was a STACKED year for Beat 'Em Ups! Also also, your hatred of RPGs is fascinating. But I get it. I feel that way about Resident Evil. Oh and one final random thing if you read this message: If you have an XBone handy, don't sleep on Space Jam: A New Legacy. Yes, they made a Space Jam beat 'em up (it's free) and while the moveset is VERY small, the tight controls, jump cancels, and juggles MADE that game. That and the River City physics on the basketball.
Awesome retrospective! Looking forward to the next part! I loooove beat 'em ups! Also, I noticed Altered Beasts didn't get a mention? Can't wait for the next video
Altered Beast wasn't very influential, was it? Maybe Metamorphic Force took its idea of metamorphosis from it but, at that point, pretty much every game had something you'd see in some other one. And it came out after Bad Dudes which was, IMO, a better game in every aspect (in that style of beat'em up).
Great video from two guys who understand game mechanics. Just a side note: Renegade (as it was known here) had a couple of unofficial sequels on home computers - Target Renegade is worth checking out.
@@TheElectricUnderground Target: Renegade I believe was developed by a UK studio so it actually feels completely different than the Japanese Renegade that came before it.
Thank you to present this genre properly, which is very rare… Mark, as you are a Team Ninja fan, I discovered Metroid: Other M last month and I love it, the best in the franchise since Super imo, with a straight hard mode full of good action. Of course all youtubers hate it B|
Enemies do halt their attacks while throwing in Golden Axe, but since it's at the end of combos and sometimes glitches out so you have to press twice to throw it doesn't work as well there
Surprised that you didn't touch on the subject of "Alchemy" in final fight. Turning all your food into points/score for added difficulty seems like something you'd love.
@@TheElectricUnderground Final Fight's scoring is pretty well explored. Unfortunately there are 2 boss milking strategies that make it a bit lame but the alchemy is just another element that shows how much more Final Fight has going on compared with everything that came before.
Thanks gentlemen for this. I really dug Renegade on my Nintendo Entertainment System. Double Dragon to the recent Fight & Rage & you know me & Mobile phone Maximus 2 the genre keeps on surprising me.
I only like Golden Axe in co op. Single player wise it feels too stiff and clunky but co op you can share parts of the screen and it becomes a lot more fun.
Golden Axe is my top beat em up. There's almost no cheap stuff/deaths and It's great that you the player control the pace of the game yet you still need to figure out how to beat the enemies.
@@TheElectricUnderground Golden Axe seems to be love it or hate it hahaha. But I think a big reason why it doesn't have a bigger following is because Golden Axe 2 , while not a bad game, just didn't live up to the first. It ruined the beast riding system from the first instead of improving upon it. It actually made it disadvantageous to ride a beast.
Fantastic discussion and very in depth on the mechanics that each game added to the genre. Really looking forward to part 2! When can we expect that to be released and how many parts will there be in this series? I'd love a discussion on the recent beat 'em up resurgence.
Im watching the video as of now so maybe you will bring it later but an interesting thing about the beat em up tropes is how they seem to derivate a lot from Hokuto No Ken. I decided to watch the anime after hearing so much about it, specially in Hideki Kamiya interview with Nakamura and it feels like a beat em up made anime hahaha but is actually the other way around
Funny story about the original Double Dragon arcade game: When I was very little, maybe 6 or 7 years old, I was watching two kids who were about twice my age get to the end of the game and beat the machine gun final boss. They then had no clue what to do next as they couldn't advance any further and they thought maybe the game had broken lol. I was telling them "Hey, you guys have to beat each other up now and the winner gets the girl!" They thought I was lying and that I was messing with them so they'd kill one another, I kept telling them over and over "No I'm not kidding I saw my brother and his friend do it!, you have to fight one another to get the girl!!!!". They didn't believe me and the timer ran out and they both game over'd and just looked at me weird and walked away from the machine. I tried to tell them but apparently I was just some dumb little kid, but I knew my stuff lol
@@TheElectricUnderground At my arcade most adults played pinball lol. Now that I'm old I've seriously thought about buying my own table or two just because there's nothing like the real thing even though I do love playing tables on Visual Pinball X, but I just can't convince myself to spend $7,000+ on something for entertainment lol. Maybe if Chicago Gaming Company ever remakes The Funhouse I would, I thought about their Monster Bash remake but now I'm just rambling haha
i decided to try out some Granblue and while playing the main story mode i was thinking: "damn this could be actually quite good if it was a 2D beat em up. but it isnt" i recommend the BOR (open source beat em up engine) games. the community made some great games with preexisting assets.
Damn I wasn't expecting to learn something new so early on in the vid. I consider myself a beat em up connoisseur but I have never heard of Samurai & always assumed that it was Technos (Double Dragon, Kunio, Combatribes.) who refined the formula. Like most people, I thought Kung Fu was the earliest known dna of belt scrollers. Sega has really fallen on hard times for a company that originated practically everything in gaming. Sega even did motion controls, online & expansion packs before anyone else did. Although I could do without any of those 3 innovations.
@Kriegor Have you played the “OpenBor-ish” game which utilized the spectacular large sprites from the IGS PGM’s “Martial Masters” ? It’s titled “MARTIAL MASTERS: NEW LEGEND”, and the OST sounds like a 1970’s Kung Fu Flick !!! MegaDope for my tastes!
No, I've not played that one. To be honest, I don't really like the beat'em up from IGS or Noise Factory (all the Knights of Valour, The Gladiator, Sengoku 3...). About 8 years ago, I was more into them, even had a 1CC on Gaia playing coop with my brother but I started to grow tired of that style of gameplay. IMO, they have bad battle design (undistinctive set of encounters that just repeat themselves way too much), too long juggles, too big life bars, too strong moving chains... I understand their appeal (awesome graphics and animations, big combos) but I'm more into other kind of BTU. Not to spoil anything but we won't discuss them in part 2 which was maybe a mistake in retrospect as, although they didn't bring anything significant, they have a distinctive flair.
@@KrieGor27 it is not made by Noise Factory or IGS, it was made in the last 7-8 years, by someone independently, but re-using the “Martial Masters” sprites, as well as some CAPCOM sprites as enemies/bosses. It adds the suffix: “New Legend” to the same title “Martial Masters” … It’s DOPE AF imho. Would love y’all to critique it!
@@TheElectricUnderground If you like Beat Em Up’s with huge well animated sprites and dope music, I highly recommend checking it out. Best OpenBor type game I’ve found to date.
90s arcade beat em ups are current day action looter games. Games like Cyber punk, Witcher, Destiny, Diablo, warriors are the games that are slow burn beat em up controlling overpower playable character with loot and builds. Arcade shooters are current day skilled games like Soulslike games where you play against NPC with underpowered character that requires heavy skill to over come adversity. Fighting games has similarity with modern day online PvP games like MOBA and FPS that both player are playing against similar situation.
is the audio used for Kriegor the "skype" audio? it would have helped a lot if you could have mixed in his direct audio...for instance, Mark, your audio is crystal clear. (or subtitles ?(google generates BS when it comes to niche content obviously) Don't get me wrong though, this is the most informative video I've ever watched on the subject (and I lived through most of that era), and I'm not dogging on is accent either, I'm french too. Thanks a lot for the video, can't wait for part2 :)
still play renegade and Kung fu master. Both Short, fast and with a lot of density.the others are too Boring and long for my taste.great vídeo. Hoping to see Next parts
Renegade has a special place for me. I remember being amazed at the playful design . It really stood out to me in those days because many action games took themselves very seriously.
I can't remember what year it came out, but you missed Chuck Norris Superkicks. I looked it up, it came out in 1984, the ColecoVision version was the best because it used both buttons.
There are tons of games we didn't cover. In the golden era, there were more than 20 new releases per year, and nowadays, with indies, we are around that count as well. So we had to select the few ones that, we thought, introduced significant ideas we will then see spread into many other titles.
Renegade got 2 home computer sequels; Target Renegade (also on NES) and the absolutely dreadful Renegade III The Final Chapter; which should be avoided like the plague.
@@TheElectricUnderground You might be in for a treat then. It’s pretty challenging but from what I’ve seen from you I think you could definitely sink your teeth in it. Hopefully sooner than later. No rush though. Would love to see your take on it especially since time has passed and a new DLC came out for it. Thanks for the response. Later. Edit: Also the art design was created by the Afro Samurai creator, Takashi Okazaki. Which = eye candy 😃
Am i the only one that hates the desperation move? I don’t like the idea of losing health for doing a move. Also my wife in MAME games just spams it and she doesn’t have to learn how to play 😂😂😂😂. Least with something like Golden Axe she has to learn the game cause there’s no op spammable move.
I really like it. It's kind of complicated to explain why its such a good mechanic, but I'll go over it in more depth in my how to beat em up vid that I'm working on for the future
@@TheElectricUnderground I like River City Ransom. Personally I think one thing I wish modern games should borrow from it instead of the rpg elements is weapon interactivity. I thought it was cool how you could kick around the trash can or use it as a platform. I thought RCR had great potential to be a really cool sandbox beat-em-up. Not sandbox in terms of open world but sandbox in terms of being able to fight in creative ways without having to grind for money. Heck, I wonder if people would like the game more if they played with a money cheat.
It's crazy how much depth Double Dragon and Renegade had. They had even more depth than Final Fight. The NES version pushed it even further. But after that, I think the devs constantly missed the mark.
You must be talking about the awful SNES port, don't play that one it butchers everything about the game. The arcade version is the hardest Capcom beat em up 1cc by a pretty decent margin, and unlike most, the difficulty is pretty evenly spread out. The enemies are as dangerous as the bosses, if not more so.
I hope you cother the birth of my favourite tech made popular by DAIGO HIMURA at EVO the PARRY.Which was actually debut in Capcoms KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND my favourite beat em up ever.
Why do you keep switching between the games and your talking heads what makes your faces so interesting to you.Better to have a small space with your faces in the corner if you must.
I ve tried this a thousand different ways and the small pics on the corner just doesn't work, it always comes across as unpolished. Also the human face is inherently interesting, it s hard wired into your brain to respond to faces. I m personally bored with pure talking over footage, I think that gets stale.
Love the PASSION for these types of games in this vid. This is quickly becoming one of my favorite gaming channels.
I m really happy to hear that!
@6:54 really interesting stuff right there! but please please please guys, rework the auto generated subtitles! not hate, but its really hard to understand kriegor's lovely french accent. i was searching for a term for the classic beat em up perspective and just spent half an hour googling for "bell perspective". XD but now i got it! its "belt perspective"! so happy to finally find out that there is a term for that. so a big merci to kriegor! 😊💜
Very well done. I'm old enough to have grown up with Double Dragon and Renegade both at the arcades and consoles. Just to put it in perspective, Double Dragon was the Street Fighter 2 of beat em ups at the arcades. At least where I was from. All my friends, neighborhood kids, and kids from school would be talking about it. Sharing strategies and just bragging at how "great" they were at Double Dragon. Now, I'm looking forward to, part 2, the 90s era, which imo is the best era for the genre.
Yeah I remember that era and how popular double dragon was!! Also yeah part 2 is when the heavy hitters come out to play :-)
Double Dragon was popular where I grew up as well, but it was NOWHERE near as popular as Street Fighter 2. I'd say even Final Fight was more popular than Double Dragon. And while not a beat'em up, Golden Axe was also way more popular. I'm not downplaying the popularity of Double Dragon but those games were god-tier level of popularity here while DD was S-tier.
@@drlight6677 Where I'm from, Double Dragon and Golden Axe were bigger than Final Fight. Although I think TMNT was the biggest of all because of the license and 4-player element.
I love how in-depth this and your contents goes. From STGWeekly, ShmupJunkie, Mark's. One thing i really enjoy on SHMUP channels is that the community really knows how to go technical and really appreciate that the "minor" things on games is what makes them real good.
I m glad you appreciate the nuanced discussion. Some of the concepts might be a little obscure, but I learned a lot making this ep with kriegor :-)
100%
this, 100%!
Excellent video. Thank you. It's refreshing that the channel rarely indulges in nostalgia when discussing older games and instead focuses mainly on gameplay mechanics.
That is exactly what I'm going for :-) keep the nostalgia in check
Well said.
For someone like me who loves beat em ups, but doesn't know their history and legacy very well, this video was incredible. It's unbelievable how Final Fight was influential for the whole media, and still is to this day.
Kriegor is very knowledgeable, it is a pleasure to listen to him ! (and also a blast to read *wink wink*)
Thank you my friend. 😉
The Crime Fighters PCB is surprisingly cheap for a Konami game that was never ported. I was able to get one for a little less than $100 shipped
This was truly an eye opener. I had no idea about Sega's Samurai. I look forward to part 2!
Glad to hear it!!! I had no idea about it either
Well done. This video is awesome. Thank you so much Kriegor for sharing all the beat'em up history!
Looking forward to part 2!
Thanks for tuning in! Part 2 is gonna be a ton of fun
Always love your content. Your videos are always aimed at the true fans instead of most TH-cam channels which regurgitate the same boring stuff and always feel like “baby’s first game.” I’ve been hoping so long that you do a Sin and Punishment 2 video really going in depth on it. The thought and effort that went into that game is incredible and so many people missed out. It’s the reason I’ll always keep my Wii. The motion controls were fantastic. People mention the original but the sequel is better in every conceivable way. Sorry this is off topic!
I'm really glad you are connecting with the vibe and the style of the channel!! And yes, I will absolutely cover sin and punishment 2, i love that damn game and have a lot to say about it. It will happen this year!
I'm surprised and also not surprised to see Kriegor here. We've already spoken on the subject of Beat Them Ups on French forums on several occasions so it's not really a surprise to see him on a TH-cam video on the subject. I remember a disagreement we had on Final Fight being the best BTU of all times (he thinks so, and I don't). He is a true BTU passionate and extremely knowledgeable.
Great video, very comprehensive. I'm looking forward for part 2!
That s awesome! You all met in the forum street ha
@@TheElectricUnderground the fun part is that I thought about asking ask him if he knew your channel (I had a feeling he would) but it never came in the conversation. And then I see him here. lol
Merci pour ton commentaire Kathleen, c'est gentil ! Du coup, quel est Ton BTU préféré ? :)
@@KrieGor27 Hé salut, j'espère que ça va. Il ne faut pas s'en faire, tous les habitués du forum se sont fait ban au moins une fois. ^^
Et sinon j'ai pas vraiment de meilleur, mais ceux qui tournent le plus chez moi c'est SoR4, Denjin Makai 2, SoR2, Cadillacs & Dinosaurs... Ca me peine un peu de pas avoir de BTU Neo Geo dans mes favoris mais en général je les trouve trop basiques (Mutation Nation, Robo Army, Burning Fight...) et je me suis un peu ennuyé sur Sengoku 3 qui est pourtant selon moi le meilleur de la machine. Et Final Fight dans tout ça? Pour faire court, je le classe dans les tops mais il rate les premières marches parce que même si sa recette est très équilibrée j'en attends un peu plus sur le contenu (plus de persos, plus de coups, plus de mécaniques, plus d'environnements), même si je le préfère d'une courte tête à FF3 qui coche plus de cases mais manque de personnalité, d'impact et d'un peu de rigueur.
@@kathleendelcourt8136 et d'ennemis. Le problème de Final Fight 3, c'est ce peu d'ennemis à l'écran et le fait qu'ils aient en plus de grosses barres de vie. Ca rend le jeu un peu mou. Je l'adore sinon, point de vue gameplay. Un très bon BTU 16 bits.
Sengoku 3, son soucis pour moi, c'est que les mêmes vagues d'ennemis se répètent et se répètent, ça n'en finit plus. Ils ont en plus souvent un comportement assez basique et, là aussi, trop de vie. Les combos sont sympas et j'aime le fait qu'on puisse choisir entre dommage/portée avec l'arme blanche et combo throw (s) avec le main nue mais rien que pour son battle design, je lui préfère les 2 premiers Sengoku (qui, sur ce point, sont excellent). Techniquement, Final Vendetta est un BTU Neo Geo donc, pour moi, c'est lui désormais le n°1 de la plateforme. Mais si on considère que c'est de la triche, alors je donne la couronne au premier Sengoku. La console n'est pas très réputée pour la qualité de ses BTU.
En tout cas, c'est sympa de voir CPC représenté dans cette section commentaire. Je pensais que tu venais de JVC car j'ai eu plusieurs messages là-bas de personnes qui m'ont reconnu. Maintenant, je me demande qui tu es sous cette identité !
Thanks Kriegor for making me appreciate one of my fav games even more : D
Final Fight is insanely well designed. The interaction between you & the enemies due to how knockdowns/throws/etc. work gives the whole combat a nice sense of momentum and interconnectedness - you're not just reacting to enemy behavior and poking them, you're actively thinking ahead and setting up favorable situations, knocking enemies down, grouping them up, cornering them, etc. The whole game is also incredibly consistent in terms of its rules (besides Haggar's insta-throw combo, no clue what triggers that), it's not like TMNT games where it's hard to tell what the fuck is happening with hitstun - the hit detection is generous, the hitstun and knockdowns are clear & lengthy.
The enemies are so aggressive & dangerous, the sprites are so big and levels so claustrophobic that it really highlights all these crowd control elements. Even later Capcom beat em ups aren't as good at this IMO. Mainly cause they beef up your movesets, increase the size of the play area and make enemies more docile generally. So while you can still play tactically there's not much need, you're one good jump away from resetting the situation.
Good point regarding devs being too afraid to put impossible modes in games, that's really something big that's lacking in a lot of retro style games. Even shmups are really restrained compared to some of the insane shit that was going on in the arcades...for the most part.
Also, isn't Tecmo Knight technically the first mounted combat game? I guess the mount there is built into the character, but still.
Yeah modern devs are way into the idea of accessibility over longevity. A lot of new beat em ups can be breezed through over a weekend, even on hard mode and then your sort of done.
@@TheElectricUnderground I guess for a lot of indie devs just getting people to play their games feels like an achievement so they're afraid of alienating them with unreasonable & seemingly unbalanced difficulty. Back in the days the devs knew their games were hot shit and that players would put up with a lot because there wasn't anything as badass on the market. Some modern-ish games are still like that, it's the whole promise of Ninja Gaiden after all - we'll give you the coolest most intense spectacle you'll ever experience, you'll put up with any ridiculous crap we cook up!
Thank you Bog Hog.
I think Tecmo Knight was released some months after Golden Axe.
About Final Fight, it would be the matter of another video but it does have enemies that feel more distinct. They all cover their niches so each set of encounters ends up being highly memorable, something few games have replicated. Either because they were afraid of going as far as having enemies sliding below your jabs or jumping above you. Or because the PCs dominate the screen too much, usually not just because they are fast but because they remain highly mobile when they attack (typical of OpenBor stuff). Or even because they restrain themselves to propose a more coherent progression (AvP not having marines and aliens paired together for example).
Also the thing with Final Fight is that even though it cements the genre, it is still today its own thing thanks to how heavy-handed they have been when it comes to giving s (a bit like you with Gunvein ;) ). Haggar's gameplan in particular is like nothing you see in any other BTU outside maybe The Ninja Warriors Again (and Resident Evil 4/5). You're often happy being surrounded as as long as you're having something at jab's range, you can remain pretty safe. His s after the suplex extand to its first jab at which point he can suplex again. It looks broken, but it feels so good and is so addictive.
@@KrieGor27 It seems like they came out the same month (US ver of Tecmo Knight came out before the JP one), cant find more detailed info sadly. Would be pretty cool if Tecmo could have the first mounted bmup achievement though
Its a general trend of the genre that extended into the 3D era - everything from arena size to player mobility/attack options got buffed...while enemies either remained the same or even got downgraded. I find that my favorites have this great balance of player vs enemy power, either with the use of player limitations (Final Fight, God Hand) or making EVERYTHING strong and fast as fuck (Ninja Gaiden 2).
Also yes FF enemy roster is unmatched outside of maybe SOR2. Not only do they have unique attacks but they also have very different movement patterns. For example Ive always loved how J does footsies just out of range and quickly moves in to attack, then moves out. He could have been a standard boring popcorn enemy, but instead even his design is dynamic and challenges you in unique ways. And it only work as well as it does because your PC can't zoom around the arena, jump 20 feet and do run attacks. This sorta thing would not fly in Punisher or Cadillacs. Blessed game
@@boghogSTG Even if Tecmo Knight would have came out first, the way I see it, it's more like you can switch between two playable characters à la Sengoku. It's not an interactable mount that offers you a new move set until you get rid of it.
I completely agree with your sentiment. But if a game like Final Fight came out now, even with the best graphics, animations, etc. both journalists and the general audience would dislike the fact that they feel trapped all the time with no parry/dodge/run mechanic to help them. You would have to propose a lot of difficulty settings and a level by level approach just like SOR4 did. Though I look forward to such things. There's such a timeless pleasure in Final Fight and its many many clones. I find it more elegant and interesting than your typical combo heavy/pattern dodging 2D or 3D modern action game. That's how I ended up replaying most of the BTU from the arcade era.
I assume this Kriegor is the same Kriegor who posts on shmups forum. Very informative guy and always a pleasure to get his input.
Until a year or two ago, I really didn't "get" Final Fight. I had played it as part of numerous collections, and I enjoyed it. But I just assumed it was an unfair arcade game. I didn't understand that Final Fight pretty much single-handedly set down every rule to making a good beat em up. I mean, outside of Vendetta, I can't think of many truly excellent beat em ups that didn't at least take some design elements from Final Fight.
Final Fight's enemy placement is superb. Each enemy has a defined role but, as Kriegor said, they're never pigeonholed into doing "one und only VON" thing. Holly Wood is a brilliant enemy and an absolute bastard. The motherfucker can fly across the screen, he can throw knives, he can perform a super fast attack at close ranges... Whatever you don't want him to do is what he will do. And then you have the Andores and Slashes, who seem a little more sedate... But if they get their game plan started, they can absolutely rip your lives away. Poison and Roxy force you to learn the combo throw system. Without mastery of a timely backthrow, they will catch you ever time when you're occupied with a pack of enemies.
Kriegor already mentioned the amazing characters. Cody, Guy and Haggar all play differently. Cody with his knife game opens up a new dimension of whup-ass for those who like weapons. With invincible throws, a character like Haggar makes perfect sense. Guy is the only one who doesn't seem as fun to me, since he's just "a fast dude." Cody feels fast enough (well, he doesn't, but nobody does in FF.) Maybe there's something about Guy I'm missing.
On the difficulty, Final Fight is hard as balls but mostly fair. I still think some of the enemy i-frames are kind of shitty and the game breaks its own rules sometimes (the cage match Andore battle for example, as they look like normal Andores but have way more i-frames during specific animations.) But the game gives you so many tools it's hard to complain too much.
He is indeed the very same!!! Yeah until looking at the history I didn’t realize how influential final fight was
Great comment on the general character techniques.
Thanks a lot. Beat’Em Ups is my most favourite computer game genre.
You guys made me go back and look at the genre again. Really good episode and timing. Found the Capcom arcade 1 half off and has some of the games mentioned I never played
I am so happy to hear that! I love the beat em up genre so I thought it would be cool to understand more about it s origin
What a great video, learned a lot about the genre. Thanks!
I learned a lot too ha!
This was awesome! Looking forward to the rest. Great guest
Glad you enjoyed the vid dingo! I hope you learned new stuff, I know I did
I’ve discoverd nightslasher because of you, thanks ^^
Glad to help!
As someone who has played Double Dragon and River City Girls but not the older Kunio-kun games, I was shocked to find Misuzu at 8:03
It's crazy to see how much stuff has been carried over three decades!
It is crazy to learn how early a lot of stuff in these series actually shows up!
Misuzu is recurring character in most Kunio games. River City Girls uses characters from the entire universe, even Combatribes gets brought back. Too bad RCG's gameplay isn't as good as Combatribes, but at least RCG is better than modern Japanese made Kunio games.
Well THAT was educational! Had no clue about Samurai and it was great to hear a Final Fight fan explain to me why that game is so important even if I disagree. You'll have to excuse me, I hate Capcom fanboys and think Final Fight gets more credit than it deserves. Of course I say that as a Double Dragon fanboy and as this retrospective showed, that game was REALLY influential and I hate how often it gets dumped on by Final Fight fans. Personally, I'd rather play ANY Double Dragon than Final Fight (even Wander of the Dragon).
BUT! I realize there's actually a cultural divide here. Where I grew up, Double Dragon, Golden Axe, and ESPECIALLY TMNT were bigger than Final Fight...but those are all VERY Western games. Made in Japan, but appealing to Western aesthetics and thus were popular here but not in Japan. Final Fight, meanwhile, was HUGE in Japan and was voted the best Arcade game in magazines before SF2 came out so I do have to concede its influence on the genre.
Also, wow, 1989 was a STACKED year for Beat 'Em Ups!
Also also, your hatred of RPGs is fascinating. But I get it. I feel that way about Resident Evil.
Oh and one final random thing if you read this message: If you have an XBone handy, don't sleep on Space Jam: A New Legacy. Yes, they made a Space Jam beat 'em up (it's free) and while the moveset is VERY small, the tight controls, jump cancels, and juggles MADE that game. That and the River City physics on the basketball.
Amazing content Keep it up
Thank you very much!!
Its been 2 weeks and im still waiting for the continuation xD
Awesome retrospective! Looking forward to the next part! I loooove beat 'em ups! Also, I noticed Altered Beasts didn't get a mention? Can't wait for the next video
Altered Beast wasn't very influential, was it? Maybe Metamorphic Force took its idea of metamorphosis from it but, at that point, pretty much every game had something you'd see in some other one. And it came out after Bad Dudes which was, IMO, a better game in every aspect (in that style of beat'em up).
Great video from two guys who understand game mechanics.
Just a side note: Renegade (as it was known here) had a couple of unofficial sequels on home computers - Target Renegade is worth checking out.
Man, Target: Renegade. I had that one on NES as a kid. It was too difficult for me back then. Wish I could play it again and finish the fight haha.
Oh that's really cool!! do they play well?
@@TheElectricUnderground Target: Renegade I believe was developed by a UK studio so it actually feels completely different than the Japanese Renegade that came before it.
Thank you to present this genre properly, which is very rare…
Mark, as you are a Team Ninja fan, I discovered Metroid: Other M last month and I love it, the best in the franchise since Super imo, with a straight hard mode full of good action. Of course all youtubers hate it B|
I do need to try it out!!! Thanks for the recommendation it sounds really interesting especially now I can emulate it
Other M plays great, a lot of Ninja Gaiden DNA carried over to that game.
Can’t wait to dive into this. Aside from R-Type and Thunderforce, I grew up playing SoR 2 and 3, and of course Final Fight.
Hell yeah such a nice complimentary genre to shmups
Enemies do halt their attacks while throwing in Golden Axe, but since it's at the end of combos and sometimes glitches out so you have to press twice to throw it doesn't work as well there
how do you manage to find these handsome french gamers like this guy and the guy from the fufufu video
The French just seem to have a high concentration of handsome men ha!
Surprised that you didn't touch on the subject of "Alchemy" in final fight. Turning all your food into points/score for added difficulty seems like something you'd love.
That is a cool aspect! We don't discuss scoring systems too much though since score play in beat em ups is so generally broken and under explored
@@TheElectricUnderground Final Fight's scoring is pretty well explored. Unfortunately there are 2 boss milking strategies that make it a bit lame but the alchemy is just another element that shows how much more Final Fight has going on compared with everything that came before.
Thanks gentlemen for this. I really dug Renegade on my Nintendo Entertainment System. Double Dragon to the recent Fight & Rage & you know me & Mobile phone Maximus 2 the genre keeps on surprising me.
Yes and part 2 is gonna have even more really cool hidden gems!
I only like Golden Axe in co op. Single player wise it feels too stiff and clunky but co op you can share parts of the screen and it becomes a lot more fun.
Golden Axe is my top beat em up. There's almost no cheap stuff/deaths and It's great that you the player control the pace of the game yet you still need to figure out how to beat the enemies.
yeah I'm personally not a golden axe fan, but it is very popular for what i've seen :-)
@@TheElectricUnderground Golden Axe seems to be love it or hate it hahaha. But I think a big reason why it doesn't have a bigger following is because Golden Axe 2 , while not a bad game, just didn't live up to the first. It ruined the beast riding system from the first instead of improving upon it. It actually made it disadvantageous to ride a beast.
Fantastic discussion and very in depth on the mechanics that each game added to the genre. Really looking forward to part 2! When can we expect that to be released and how many parts will there be in this series? I'd love a discussion on the recent beat 'em up resurgence.
Part 2 should be out next month and it should conclude the series! It might be 2 hours or so though ha
@@TheElectricUnderground sounds great, looking forward to it!
Im watching the video as of now so maybe you will bring it later but an interesting thing about the beat em up tropes is how they seem to derivate a lot from Hokuto No Ken. I decided to watch the anime after hearing so much about it, specially in Hideki Kamiya interview with Nakamura and it feels like a beat em up made anime hahaha but is actually the other way around
Does Kriegor have a channel? His commentary is really insightful
I don't believe so!! I encountered him in the wild like a rare Pokemon :-D
I do have one but it's nothing interesting.
Marc, I think it would be sweet to see a vid by you of your top 5 beat em ups that deserve the revival treatment a la SOR 4, TMNT, River City.
For sure! I am going to do a top 30 beat em ups list soon!
thanks for the informative video!
I'm glad you enjoyed!! I learned a lot too ha. Wait till part 2 as well, lots of real deep cuts in that one
Funny story about the original Double Dragon arcade game: When I was very little, maybe 6 or 7 years old, I was watching two kids who were about twice my age get to the end of the game and beat the machine gun final boss. They then had no clue what to do next as they couldn't advance any further and they thought maybe the game had broken lol. I was telling them "Hey, you guys have to beat each other up now and the winner gets the girl!" They thought I was lying and that I was messing with them so they'd kill one another, I kept telling them over and over "No I'm not kidding I saw my brother and his friend do it!, you have to fight one another to get the girl!!!!". They didn't believe me and the timer ran out and they both game over'd and just looked at me weird and walked away from the machine. I tried to tell them but apparently I was just some dumb little kid, but I knew my stuff lol
That s awesome ha!!! It was funny when adults would play at the arcade but be awful at the games
@@TheElectricUnderground At my arcade most adults played pinball lol. Now that I'm old I've seriously thought about buying my own table or two just because there's nothing like the real thing even though I do love playing tables on Visual Pinball X, but I just can't convince myself to spend $7,000+ on something for entertainment lol. Maybe if Chicago Gaming Company ever remakes The Funhouse I would, I thought about their Monster Bash remake but now I'm just rambling haha
i decided to try out some Granblue
and while playing the main story mode i was thinking: "damn this could be actually quite good if it was a 2D beat em up. but it isnt"
i recommend the BOR (open source beat em up engine) games. the community made some great games with preexisting assets.
Yeah we talk about BOR in part 2 (I think)
Damn I wasn't expecting to learn something new so early on in the vid. I consider myself a beat em up connoisseur but I have never heard of Samurai & always assumed that it was Technos (Double Dragon, Kunio, Combatribes.) who refined the formula. Like most people, I thought Kung Fu was the earliest known dna of belt scrollers. Sega has really fallen on hard times for a company that originated practically everything in gaming. Sega even did motion controls, online & expansion packs before anyone else did. Although I could do without any of those 3 innovations.
I'm glad you learned new stuff! I learned a ton when talking to Kriegor as well!
Capcom dungeons n dragons games are awsome
@Kriegor Have you played the “OpenBor-ish” game which utilized the spectacular large sprites from the IGS PGM’s “Martial Masters” ? It’s titled “MARTIAL MASTERS: NEW LEGEND”, and the OST sounds like a 1970’s Kung Fu Flick !!! MegaDope for my tastes!
No, I've not played that one. To be honest, I don't really like the beat'em up from IGS or Noise Factory (all the Knights of Valour, The Gladiator, Sengoku 3...). About 8 years ago, I was more into them, even had a 1CC on Gaia playing coop with my brother but I started to grow tired of that style of gameplay. IMO, they have bad battle design (undistinctive set of encounters that just repeat themselves way too much), too long juggles, too big life bars, too strong moving chains... I understand their appeal (awesome graphics and animations, big combos) but I'm more into other kind of BTU.
Not to spoil anything but we won't discuss them in part 2 which was maybe a mistake in retrospect as, although they didn't bring anything significant, they have a distinctive flair.
I haven't! Open bor is awesome though
@@KrieGor27 it is not made by Noise Factory or IGS, it was made in the last 7-8 years, by someone independently, but re-using the “Martial Masters” sprites, as well as some CAPCOM sprites as enemies/bosses. It adds the suffix: “New Legend” to the same title “Martial Masters” … It’s DOPE AF imho. Would love y’all to critique it!
@@TheElectricUnderground If you like Beat Em Up’s with huge well animated sprites and dope music, I highly recommend checking it out. Best OpenBor type game I’ve found to date.
@@AyeYoYoYooo I will definitely download it.
90s arcade beat em ups are current day action looter games. Games like Cyber punk, Witcher, Destiny, Diablo, warriors are the games that are slow burn beat em up controlling overpower playable character with loot and builds.
Arcade shooters are current day skilled games like Soulslike games where you play against NPC with underpowered character that requires heavy skill to over come adversity.
Fighting games has similarity with modern day online PvP games like MOBA and FPS that both player are playing against similar situation.
is the audio used for Kriegor the "skype" audio? it would have helped a lot if you could have mixed in his direct audio...for instance, Mark, your audio is crystal clear. (or subtitles ?(google generates BS when it comes to niche content obviously)
Don't get me wrong though, this is the most informative video I've ever watched on the subject (and I lived through most of that era), and I'm not dogging on is accent either, I'm french too.
Thanks a lot for the video, can't wait for part2 :)
It s his mic I'm afraid, only so much can be done to improve it
@@TheElectricUnderground oh, I see...too bad then, doesn't change the fact the talk is great :)
still play renegade and Kung fu master. Both Short, fast and with a lot of density.the others are too Boring and long for my taste.great vídeo. Hoping to see Next parts
Renegade looks pretty awesome!! I m excited to try it out, it s crazy how many mechanics it had back then
Renegade has a special place for me. I remember being amazed at the playful design . It really stood out to me in those days because many action games took themselves very seriously.
Will Shredder's Revenge gets mentioned? I can't wait to find out in part 2.
The G.O.A.T beatem up
oh yes it will
Awesome video. Are similar videos about run n guns and perhaps rail shooters in the works? Cheers
Not yet! Rail shooters would be interesting though because there are so few games in the genre and then the genre died such an early death
Respect Marks Grind 🫡
Thank you Jake, this ep was absolutely a grind to edit together! I'm happy with how it turned out though :-)
highly reccomend my beat em up games Urban lockdown and Bad ass babes for PC
If I heard correctly, Kriegor said POW was the first SNK beat ‘em up. But Gang Wars came before.
Oh interesting! Hopefully that wasn’t an error made from me editing out some other point or something
POW was released mid 1988 and Gang Wars mid 1989.
I believe Gang Wars was developed by Alpha Denshi (ADK) and only published by SNK.
Wow my bad. Sorry for the misinformation. For some reason I really thought Gang Wars was at least a year earlier.
Wonder if @electricunderground plans to mention Battletoads arcade for the part II beat em ups?
Yes I think we discussed it!
@@TheElectricUnderground In part one? or you plan to mention that in part 2?
Ho,ca sent la baguette ^^
2D rules
I can't remember what year it came out, but you missed Chuck Norris Superkicks. I looked it up, it came out in 1984, the ColecoVision version was the best because it used both buttons.
There are tons of games we didn't cover. In the golden era, there were more than 20 new releases per year, and nowadays, with indies, we are around that count as well. So we had to select the few ones that, we thought, introduced significant ideas we will then see spread into many other titles.
Renegade got 2 home computer sequels; Target Renegade (also on NES) and the absolutely dreadful Renegade III The Final Chapter; which should be avoided like the plague.
Hey EU, curious if you ever played Furi. If not please do a review for it. Maybe you’ll like it. Just a suggestion. Take it easy.
I ve heard about it! I ve never played it though, I m def open to trying it out
@@TheElectricUnderground You might be in for a treat then. It’s pretty challenging but from what I’ve seen from you I think you could definitely sink your teeth in it. Hopefully sooner than later. No rush though. Would love to see your take on it especially since time has passed and a new DLC came out for it. Thanks for the response. Later.
Edit: Also the art design was created by the Afro Samurai creator, Takashi Okazaki. Which = eye candy 😃
When is the second episode comming out.
❤
Off topic but are you going to review NeverAwake?
I think so at some point yes, just still getting caught up on reviews and some other vids :-)
Karateka 1984, heavy weight champion 1976 should be mentioned
They would more fit into a discussion about fighting games history.
Am i the only one that hates the desperation move? I don’t like the idea of losing health for doing a move. Also my wife in MAME games just spams it and she doesn’t have to learn how to play 😂😂😂😂. Least with something like Golden Axe she has to learn the game cause there’s no op spammable move.
I really like it. It's kind of complicated to explain why its such a good mechanic, but I'll go over it in more depth in my how to beat em up vid that I'm working on for the future
38:41 what game is that? Looks fun
I Was really enjoying final fight lns, until AntiVirus kicked in and said it was malware 😳
oh jeez LOL!
What about Vendetta???
That's in part 2!
I remember too the hype for River City Ransom. It seems the positives for it were open world and rpg elements 🤮
yeah to this day these open world/rpg elements have infected a lot of action games. Even devil may cry has them with it's upgrade system and all that
@@TheElectricUnderground I like River City Ransom. Personally I think one thing I wish modern games should borrow from it instead of the rpg elements is weapon interactivity. I thought it was cool how you could kick around the trash can or use it as a platform. I thought RCR had great potential to be a really cool sandbox beat-em-up. Not sandbox in terms of open world but sandbox in terms of being able to fight in creative ways without having to grind for money. Heck, I wonder if people would like the game more if they played with a money cheat.
Raiden 4 review please
It's crazy how much depth Double Dragon and Renegade had. They had even more depth than Final Fight. The NES version pushed it even further.
But after that, I think the devs constantly missed the mark.
who is Kriegor and why should I trust him? Where are his beat ém up feats?
The man is an encyclopedia of beat em up knowledge! A scholar of the genre
As influential as FF may be, the game is just too damn easy. The AI is laughable and enemies are basically just fodder.
Yeah stay tuned for part 2 where we discuss AVP ha, that game is out of control hard (and awesome)
You must be talking about the awful SNES port, don't play that one it butchers everything about the game. The arcade version is the hardest Capcom beat em up 1cc by a pretty decent margin, and unlike most, the difficulty is pretty evenly spread out. The enemies are as dangerous as the bosses, if not more so.
What??? FF is one of the hardest beat em ups to 1cc.
This needs subtitles
Probably true but I m not one to spend hours putting them together ha
I hope you cother the birth of my favourite tech made popular by DAIGO HIMURA at EVO the PARRY.Which was actually debut in Capcoms KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND my favourite beat em up ever.
oh don't you worry we will absolutely talk about the parry in part 2 :-)
Why do you keep switching between the games and your talking heads what makes your faces so interesting to you.Better to have a small space with your faces in the corner if you must.
I ve tried this a thousand different ways and the small pics on the corner just doesn't work, it always comes across as unpolished. Also the human face is inherently interesting, it s hard wired into your brain to respond to faces. I m personally bored with pure talking over footage, I think that gets stale.
@@TheElectricUnderground I got used to it eventually it was a bit to often in the beginning but I think it became less frequent.
Amazing video!