Jeff Thomson and Imran Khan on recording bowlers' speed
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2010
- Pakistan cricket legend Imran Khan delivered the annual MCC Spirit of Cricket Cowdrey Lecture in 2010. Here Imran and Australia's Jeff Thomson talk about speed guns clocking the pace of fast bowlers
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Thompson bowled a ball at the W.A.C.A. that passed the batsman at head height rose so rapidly that the keeper couldn't touch it at full jump and then hit the sightscreen! Anyone who says they've seen a faster bowler than Thompson has never seen him bowl.
I was at a Shield match at the old Gabba and Thommo bowled a similar ball that landed on the dog track.
Would have been well over 100 mph, even allowing for the bounce at the WACA. Dennis Amiss said that the ball used to hit the bat before the bat was ready to hit the ball.
By watching the way Thommo talks I cant believe he was most aggressive and most lethal....❤
Imran... my god...How articulate..
He knew how to narrate a story or sell a dream..
That's what he is good at only
Begging me aur bhi better hai
@@ritesharora6032 par Modi phekh ne mai Imran se bhi aage hai.
@@trumpetfriday8971 maybe
Articulate are people like Richard Burton, Peter O Toole etc. Imran Khan is a great leader motivator, go getter. But 'articulate' isn't one of them. Just because he looks good doesn't mean he's articulate.
Thommo at his quickest around the mid 70's has not been replicated,The steepling bounce he got off a full length was amazing and petrifying.No doubt he bowled like the wind during his pomp.Akhtar/lee were also very very fast but Thommo had the edge pace-wise with his power and leverage from that unique action.Many times bails flew most of the way to the boundary as well as many many broken bones.Combine the fact that he was extremely hard to pick up and no helmets...
I watched Thommo, Holding, Marshall, Akhtar, Brett Lee and Tait and I reckon there's not much between them, all really fast at their peak, all around 100mph. But Thommo bowled a heavy ball a little like Mitch Johnson, player use to say it was hard to pick up out of his hand and he hit the pitch hard. His combination of pace and intimidation is what made him the most frightening.
So, based on a 10% difference, Thommo was really bowling (using today's measuring model) at about 175 km. No wonder batsmen were terrified. That's just insane.
Pretty sure Marsh was quoted he thought Thommo was 170+ at his quickest..
And they had no helmets! Crazy stuff, I’d be scared shitless.
Except Thommo is talking nonesense.
The fast bowling competition Imran and he were talking about, Thomson was timed at 147. Just watch it on TH-cam
@@craigrodgers9693 your dumbass didn't watch the video did it
175 😂😂😂😂😂
I'd be surprised if he crossed 150 that often.
In 1975 in Perth when Thommo bowled at 160.45 Kim or 99.79 miles an hour it was recorded from his hand then measured at the batting end
so was that accurate or like he really bowled at 170km/h i dont think that is humanly possible?
@@cricketfan1487 no 170 is not possible biomechanically
I think the ball loses about 20km/h by the time it reaches the batsman.
Nonsense if he thinks he's bowling 180km/h
th-cam.com/video/YGcZRxE3kQA/w-d-xo.html
World's Fastest Bowler Competition 1979
Jeff Thomson 147.9 kph fastest speed
Speed measured at hand release
I don't understand, what are they talking about Jeff Thomson bowling 160 kph at the stump?
Imran Khan and Jeff Thomson Great LEGENDS OF THE GAME
imran is now prime minister brooo
@@ehsanullahkhan4102 worst prime minister in the world
@@nishantchoubey7685 Well YOUR AN INDIAN SO I CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR SITUATION!!!✌✌😉😉.
@@ehsanullahkhan4102 so you are saying that he is doing a great job yes or no ?
@@nishantchoubey7685 better than uneducated anpad chaiwala.. 🤣🤣
Legend of cricket will be also a legend of Pakistani politics. 😊
😂😂😂😂
@@shivammehta8284 has kyun rahe ho ?
@@lightyagami8645 imran khan legend of politics Sun kar has Raha tha he was a good player no doubt but as a politician he is a joke
@@shivammehta8284 baat to sahi kahi tumne , wo bekar country ka bekar prime minister ban gaya lekin as a cricket , wo aaj tak asia we best cricketer hai
Politics in a pseudo-democracy? He will lose all reputation and face in no time.
@Aimanali the complete lecture by Imran Khan is on our channel. The entire panel discussion with Finn, Onions, Thomson et al was too long to post on TH-cam - so we posted selected highlights, like this one (above). Hope you enjoy them!
From a book titled the Quicks by Robert Drane. Came out in 2022:
It’s Thommo’s effect we’ll remember. His shattering, pillaging, trucking-well effectiveness. Who cares about statistics? Thommo doesn’t. His influence on a game - on the game - was enormous. Why? Because he was not only inhumanly fast; he made that rock do unprecedentedly vicious things, with steepling, blast-off bounce, from what was previously considered a good length. Good batsmen had their faces, ribcages and life-priorities rearranged. Opponents who’d just come off triumphant series were reduced to pallid, frail wraiths. He made batsmen who dined on good bowlers want to apologise for hitting him to the boundary. Not one worthy archrival stood when he was in the mood to prove batting was a hoax, its greatest practitioners overrated.
Speed guns? Anyone who saw him, or faced him, especially pre-1977, would be amused at the ‘fastest man in history’ contest between Brett Lee and Shaoib Akhtar. Thomson was officially measured, long after the 1976 on-field collision that ruined his bowling shoulder. Two years before that, he’d already hurt it during a tennis match.
The video assessment happened during season 1978-79, when he didn’t play, and had been sitting around drinking beer for months. In fact, he put down a beer to participate in the little exercise. Against Holding, Lillee, Roberts, Khan and LeRoux, he clocked the quickest, around 150, hardly extending himself. The Wild Man surprisingly also proved most accurate. He’d been unofficially clocked three years earlier, at over 160. Lillee, by the way, was timed at mid-150s then, after his comeback with reduced pace.
Ian Chappell, never given to exaggeration, ignores ‘studies’, measurements, or historical judgements. He believed there was Thomson, then daylight, then the frightening Holding. ‘He had another gear’. Rod Marsh was in the front row, as Thommo’s wicketkeeper. I spent a week with him at the Cricket Academy in 1998. He was effusive then about a kid named Brett Lee. Later, he put the Lee-Akhtar ‘duel’ in perspective: ‘If they’re bowling 160, Thommo bowled 180.’ Clive Lloyd faced or played with them all. ‘There’s only one way to play him’, the fearless and ferocious Big Cat said once in his laconic way, ‘and that’s to get up the other end.’
when Shoaib was bowling really quick and everyone was talking about how quick he is then Gavaskar had said during one of the matches,,that thompson average speed was way higher than Shoaibs fastest..They were scary bowlers
+ritesh mallik Did Gavasker say that ? what did he exactly say ?
ritesh mallik it would be stupid of gavaskar to say that because gavaskar never faced shoaib
I believe Gavaskar, he faced Thommo and after he busted his shoulder.
Thommo was a danger man... Respect and love from India
He’s soooo charismatic ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ he really stands out in the rest of them. Now subhan Allah he’s our pm and just like in his cricketing career he’s a legend. May Allah grant him a long long life🤲🏻🤲🏻🤲🏻🥰🥰🥰
Ameeeeen
imran khan legend
He outshines any gorra on any platform!
Our heartthrob Hero Imran 💋
💚🇵🇰
@Choudhry Ali wtf chill out snowflake 🤣
You are crazy and racist. Goras are better than Imran and they outshine and overshadow Imran. Understand!
@@reekssmith6293 Nah you chill out. He is right, the other guy is being racist.
My Dad said that Frank Tyson was as fast as Holding
I've only ever seen two bowlers regularly break a stump, one was Mikey Holding the other was Jeff Thompson, they are the quickest I have ever seen, no one in the modern era has come close!
Brett lee was dangerous quick
Nothing wrong in your comment! Seriously Holding And Jeff Thomson were brutally terrifying. I think Akhtar deserves to be in the list as well
Stumps can be broken at 130 kph. It means nothing in terms of measuring express pace. And Lee has to be the fastest bowler ever as he consistently clocked around 150 throughout his career.
Quality of cricket stumps have gotten better over the years...
Shane Bond up there too
This was very useful to watch as I'd just watched that fastest bowler competition from the 70's last night and thought that it seemed odd that these seemingly ferocious bowlers were just clipping high 130's to max 149. Makes much more sense now
That fast bowling comp was also timed from the hand. I don't know why he says it wasn't.
th-cam.com/video/YGcZRxE3kQA/w-d-xo.html
World's Fastest Bowler Competition 1979
Jeff Thomson 147.9 kph fastest speed
Speed measured at hand release
I don't understand, what are they talking about Jeff Thomson bowling 160 kph at the stump?
ps R.I.P. Tony Grieg, have a look at the clips of Thommo giving the 2 metre tall batsman chin music off just short of a length.
Physics aside for a moment, even though it does stand up of course, ask the batsmen. Viv Richards, Geoff Boycott, Barry Richards, Derek Randall, Malcolm Marshall have ALL stated in interviews Thomo was CONSISTENTLY the fastest bowler they've ever faced...easily!
Problem is, none of those guys ever faced the modern athletes - Lee, Ahktar, Johnson, etc. Guys who had the benefits of the professional era, so we're fitter, stronger etc. sadly, we will never know
+danger2709 if you take into consideration the gradual decrease in human size, then it lends credibility to the theory that bowlers were bowling close to 180kph at that time. (70s and 80s)
Duncan Lievi I can only assume this post is sarcastic?? (I really hope so!)
Humans are getting larger, not smaller. This is a known fact, and has been occurring consistently for hundreds of years.
In addition, the players of the 70's were semi professional. Current era players are full time athletes - so while they are not necessarily more talented, they are unquestionably bigger, strong, faster and fitter.
They also have access to modern footwear (important for a bowler), run ups like bowling greens (condition of grounds is way better), etc ,etc.
There is absolutely zero chance they were bowling at 180kmh back then
World record in long jump and high jump that happened in 80s and 90s are still unbroken. Why ? Athletes are not much fit these days ? :D Dude, facts are facts, you cannot use logic to think modern day bowlers are faster. Anyway Brett Lee holds the official record for the fastest delivery in cricket.
Suhail Hassan Checked the 100m sprint times? Swimming records? Marathon? The list goes on and on...there is simply no question that athletes are fitter and stronger now. To suggest otherwise is to admit you don't want to be taken seriously!
I have seen all these bowlers in action,Thommo,Lilee,Andy,Hadlee,Imran,Holding,Marshall and all these guys were really quick.I think the most difficult to face will be Thomson because of his action.All these guys would have easily clocked easily 90 miles or more 6 balls an over
I don't think Hadlee was ever that fast
Yes, but sunny gavaskar simply recorded great centuries agiainst these lethal bowling attacks on their respective home conditions that too without wearing a helmet. So sunny is greater than all these greats put together.
Jeoff Thompson was far ahead in fast bowling .Imran can't even imagine of his speech.The calibre of Thompson didn't utilized Aussie cricket board. He was iconic of fast bowling.
The '70s was easily the peak of fast bowling. Back in the late '70s Lillee was only fast medium, now he'd be considered fast. You said it, Tyson was probably up there with Thommo and Holding, as was Larwood, but kids don't get taught those extreme actions anymore. Brett Lee is the perfect example, still going fast at his age? He simply hasn't done what Thommo did to his body. Lee has a beautiful action, which enables him to bowl consistently fast for long periods, but it is a safe action.
Being an immature adult is ok, in fact its great in many ways - so long as no one tells you that you were not the fastest ever.
imran always has funny stories JUST LOVE THE GUY
No.
Imran tells the Truth.
He is bowling all-rounder.
In his playing days Imran was a hero in India.Time changed.
Now Imran is Villain.
Coin had 2 surfaces.
The thing is Imran Khan did play with most the Pakistani quicks at their prime. If he says Thompson was quickest , he surely was the quickest .
It was a toss up between Michael Holding and Dennis Lillie as to who was the best fast bowler . Or if you were an aspiring fast bowler and you wanted to copy a style.............either one of those would have been a great choice to start with
A small man Malcolm Marshall is easily forgotten.
Wow What a Attitude Level of Imran Khan😍
Grow up ass
Must watch for those saying Thomson was less than 100mph. Rodney Marsh himself used to say that the balls he collected from Thomson were easily around 165-180 km/h, and he is someone who has seen Lillee and Thommo, The West Indies, Sir Ian Botham, Bob Willis, Imran Khan, Sarfaraz Nawaz etc.
😂😂😂 is it nice living in Dreamland
180 is too much no way a human hand can generate that much pace 160 to 164 seems realistic
Genuine fast bowling is extremely hard on the body, and almost impossible to maintain for a lot of years, which is probably why so many really quick bowlers either had short careers or slowed up as they got older. Modern day bowlers are having longer careers in spite of playing more often, so they are probably holding back a bit in terms of putting maximum effort in.
I saw Thomson and Holding in their primes and I can honestly say I’ve seen no one as fast since. At times, I think it was actually impossible for the batsman to react quickly enough to play the ball, and they simply trusted to luck.
Many batsmen, even great ones, have admitted to being terrified of facing those two.
That's why Holding reduced his pace as early as 1979,choosing to limit his top speed to short bursts,to preserve his career. Do you know if Thomson did the same?
JEFF THOMSON GIVING HIS HUMOROUS JOKEY SKIT ABOUT FAST BOWLING ALONG SIDE IMRAN KHAN. TWO FORMER FAST BOWLERS WHO GENERATE SHEER PACE IN THEIR PRIME BACK THEN.
while the speed competition conducted,the change of speed between holding's fastest ball and jeff thomson's was around 7km/hr itself.no need of speedometers to find minimum speed for covering a speific distance by the ball on full.means minimum possible speed attained-not maximum.it depends on the hight with which the bounced ball lifted and it will not be the speed at the point of release.
So a random Thompson ball on a random day was almost as fast as Shoaib Akhtar's fastest ever ball, I'd say that's a pretty good indication that Thompson was well faster than Akhtar. Akhtar, Lee, Tait all had virtually every ball they bowled in international cricket timed and they all struggled to get one over the speed of a random Thompson delivery. Anyone claiming that any of those bowlers was faster than Tompson is having a tug. Anyone who has seen Thompson bowl would laugh.
I have Actually read record of this timing during WSC at University of WA archives. This is not the one on youtube. the times were(QUICKEST)-
Thommo- 98.9m/158.5k
holding- 94.8/151.
Khan- 92.3/147
roberts- 87.6/140
croft- 88.14/141
procter- 86.2-138.7
Lillee- 85.7/137-(he had stress fracture in 72/73 so he lost about 10 ks)
hadlee- 83.1/133
nawaza- 79.6/128
Imran 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Sahi me pakiatani PM ye hi hona chahiye best wishes imran 😂😂😂😂😂
👍
yep he can and he has hit the sight screen in a test match in Karachi I believe, where its much higher then it was back in the day
the real lagend of cricket 🌲🇵🇰🌲👏🇵🇰👏🇵🇰👏🇵🇰😍👍👍
The TV show that you keep talking about was in 1978, that is after Thompson's famous and disasterous collision with Alan Turner after which he was never anywhere near his fastest again (still faster that Holding). In 1975 during a Test match in Perth he was timed with a release speed of 160.45 km/h during one sample over, the following year he was timed at 160.58. That's only twice in his career and not even the whole game just one over, that he was timed. Aktar had every ball timed.
The other thing to remember about that contest was that due to a contract dispute between the ACB and WSC, Thomson had been forced to sit out a season on the sidelines and had not bowled for many months. He didn't think he was to be included in the contest but on the day Kerry Packer told him he had no choice. He had to borrow another player's outfit and boots and despite being unfit and overweight (his words) and having had a few beers beforehand, he not only won but won convincingly.
Two thespian.....two exceptional phenomenal legendary heroes
Loved to watch Viv play, loved even more when the Aussies got him out, but I think he never reached his potential. I think if he had have played with a weaker bowling outfit he might have every record under the sun. Always got the feeling that he threw his wicket away too easily, because he thought "OK we've got enough runs to win this match, over to you Andy, Michael, Joel, Colin, other random great bowler who would make the first squad in any other team but only gets the odd game for us".
yes he was never really in it for the long haul Viv,that was obvious,if he was at the crease in his 4th hour he'd be touching triple figures by then and you always knew hed be out sooner than later....fact is it was very rare
to see Viv bat past 3.5 hours
In over 50 years of watching cricket, I am absolutely certain that Thomson was- between October 1974 and December 1976- the fastest bowler there could ever have been. He also destroyed the West Indies in 1975-76 and was causig even greater havoc the following year against Pakistan when, having taken two quick wickets, Zaheer was late on a pull off him. The ball spiralled to mid on where Alan Turner and Thomson collided badly dislocating Thomson's shoulder. He was never the same again. Oh yes, for 4 more years, he was still as fast as say, Michael Holding, but that extra super extreme pace was gone. By 1983, he was a mere shadow of his former uniquely extreme self. But I assure you, for that raw, spectacular two year period, he was the most thrilling sight in cricket.
Hi
Do you still enjoy cricket ?
What are the most significant changes u observed as a cricket fan during all this time?
Saw him in NZ in the twilight of his career.....he was frightening enough then!!
The above comments are absolutely on the money. I saw Thommo at Headingley in 1975 which was a slow pitch typically more favorable to medium pace swing bowlers. The ball swung all over except for Thommo - why? Too quick. Ball swung after it passed the batter. Thomson was easily the quickest I've ever seen and Benaud stated that too, with Frank Tyson being up there too (also for a brief shining period). Thomson was probably at his most lethal at the WACA in 1974 (look it up on TH-cam). Watch Ian Chappell's comments on Thommo. I've seen Holding (almost as quick) and Shoaib (ditto) but neither quicker. Thommo also bowled quick pretty much every ball. He was very hard to bat against because he hid the ball behind his body with his slingshot action and I have never seen any other bowler make the ball rear off a length like Thomson. On a quick pitch with a new, harder ball, absolutely unplayable. He didn't do much with the ball in the air (too quick) but got good movement off the pitch both sideways and vertically. Not a thinker like Lillee or Snow or Roberts or Hadlee, but a raw paceman who was just going to dispatch the ball as fast as he could, which, before his shoulder injury I am convinced was well over a 100mph (165kph) delivery.
how old are you sir?
@@johnkelly4926 Ritchie Benaud said Frank Tyson was quicker than Jeff Thomson.
@LordsCricketGround I LOVED it thx a million. when these guys are involved nothing is too long - lol Please post all of it. thx
slam is a strong word, i think it was a graceful omission by two legends of the game.
I have just one word legend
Talking about pace don't forget our Venkatesh Prasad. In an interview he mentioned "when I used to bowl reverse swing.....!" 😁.
Go and search for who invented the reverse swing. 🤣
The use of what we call Radar guns came into cricket in 1975. The guns had been used in the timing of MLB pitchers the season before. To this day guns are part of any US baseball scout equipment when they go on the lookout for talent. They have even timed athletes such as javelin throwers and base their thinking that if the athlete has the raw ability they can mould the specifics around the basics.
The timing referred to with Thommo, Lillee, Andy Roberts and Michael is described in DK's book "Art of Bowling" and took place in Perth in 75 under supervision of UWA Engineering Dept. They used point to point high speed cameras and timing much the same as say, a land speed record or Sir Donald Campbell on water. Thommo is correct in stating a projectile loses velovity in transit and also after landing on pitch. Statistics being shown with bowling graphics on coverage recently concur also.
I recall watching a video resulting from the testing and shown on Australia's ABC which should be in archives somewhere or a museum.
Javed Miandad was batting with Imran in the game he's referring to. Imran couldn't get off strike because Javed didn't want to know. The game took place in Australia and the thing I remember most was the reaction of the crowd. They were roaring with each delivery bowled. I would like to see that game again sometime. Someone out there must have it.
I've faced 125kmh and that was horrendous. 160kmh seems impossible.
I've faced 125kmh with swing for 3 balls. The first, a yorker, I dug out. The second I didn't see until it passed my head. The third I just swung and was so relieved to be caught behind of a fine edge.
C'mon mate even some of the women are around that speed(125) even Perry clocks 120 average with fastest around 125, and not sure if the speed detection was broken but Vlaiminck was clocked at 145 in Oct 2021. I faced a guy(Oliver Boyd)playing Rep country week who was clocked at 147 using the proper system, and he wasn't as quick as a guy from my club(Ken Sims) who made me a non helmet wearer want to wear a helmet in the nets. Now for something funny, I played with guys who must have thought international or state players were super human and reckoned we didn't even face blokes as quick as Warney when talking about this topic in the 90s, well the women speeds prove that wrong unless they too are super human 🙄
@@robertleeimages I've told you a million times, do not exaggerate.
You think Wakar Younis couldn't move the ball in the air? He must have had one of the best inswinging yorkers I've ever seen, and his mastery of reverse swing is better than anything on display these days.
I think the bouncer is less of a weapon these days because of helmets, and the amount of one day cricket, therefore the players don't get to see it as often.
Oh, bouncers still are a weapon even today.
That, with great respect, is an opinon!
Great to see we have experts on speed cameras commenting
😭
Amusing that so many clearly rather young cricket fans are prognosticating on Thomson's speed, making those judgements on the basis of clips that date from the very last days of his career. Any sensible evaluations must take into account the serious shoulder injury that he sustained shortly after lunch on the first day of the first Aus V Pak test in late 1976, an incident that I viewed live on television as a thirteen year old. If you didn't see him prior to that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.
Unlike those posters who make assertions on the basis of clips of Thomson from the 1980's, I know the limitations of my knowledge, and so I will defer to the opinion of the great Richie Benaud, who stated that the fastest he's ever seen were Thomson and Frank Tyson, with Tyson possibly being a tiny bit quicker. Since I've only seen a few deliveries of video of Frank Tyson I am in the same position as those critiquing Thomson without really having a clue, and so am not in a position to argue with Benaud.
Of the bowlers I've seen these are my impressions:- The two consistently fastest bowlers I've seen were Thomson and Holding, Tait and Akhtar AT TIMES got very close to those speeds but could only do it occasionally and only for two or three overs before their speeds dropped off markedly. In addition, Thomson's unusual action made it difficult to pick the ball up early and extracted unusually steep bounce, so I suspect that he was somewhat more awkward than Holding, whose more classical action gave the batsman a far better look at the ball prior to delivery.
"Nonsense", say the cricket kiddies here, "every other sport has seen advances in performance" (not entirely true), "therefore modern bowlers are faster now than they were in the 1970's". This is clearly a logical fallacy of the first order, and doesn't explain why the fastest bowlers ever seen in the game are not playing right now. If Akhtar was faster than Thomson merely by virtue of the fact that he played twenty years after Thomson then it follows that Starc, Steyn et all are faster than Akhtar and Tait ever were. Doesn't work, does it? Clearly this line of thinking is self serving, parochial wishful thinking. To put it bluntly, it's a complete pile of crap.
Finally, I will point to anecdotal evidence, which makes a mess of the "Thomson is exaggerating" excuse. Viv Richards, Clive Lloyd, Benaud as mentioned, and several more have attested to the extreme pace of Thomson. Boycott and Imran Khan have done the same with regard to Holding. Who do you suppose would have a better idea of what they're talking about, great cricketers who actually played against these speedsters, or some kids who were not even born in the same century as these guys played, and who seem more intent anyway on parochial support of their own heroes than the pursuit of truth?
Ultimately all this posturing is just mental masturbation, all bowlers mentioned here were bloody quick, and arguing about who was the absolute fastest is just silly. I think Thomson's the fastest I've seen by a whisker from Holding, but Holding was express for longer because he didn't do his shoulder three years into his career, Benaud thinks Tyson MIGHT have been a wee bit quicker than Thomson, I don't really care, I wouldn't have wanted to face ANY of them, nor would I place any of them in the absolute top ranking of the greatest quick bowlers. Lillee was better than Thomson, Garner was better than Holding, Trueman was better than Tyson, and Akram was better than Akhtar.
@@brownie43212 BULLSHIT !!! I am following cricket from 1999-2000 and ball bouncing off to ropes directly is still a sight that I have not seen ,Now go and hear What Imran and other guys are saying - Ball directly bounced off pitches to the ropes ,Even if you consider the drop in pitches then factor in that the boundary were 85-90 m in Australia and England ,And this is Holding we are talking about ,Thomo was even quicker than Holding
Well said.
I seen Thommo bowling right at the end of his career and he was as fast then as anyone playing today. Ask Kim Hughes about the first time he faced Jeff at the WACA. Incredible story and very scary.
the real leader of Pakistan MASH.ALLAH bless you Khan SAHIB🌲🍀☘🇵🇰👏🇵🇰
Hahaha. Well said. Shall we now close this 'discussion'.
Post-injury Thomson, different timing mechanism, in net conditions, only one over. the only real evidence we have of pre-injury Thomson shows that he was almost certainly faster than Akhtar.
The University of WA team took many measurements during that Perth test match. The 160.45 kph was the fastest. His 2nd fastest was calculated at 159.49 kph. So "random ball" isn't an accurate statement. I've seen Thomson bowl, in 1975, when he was at his peak. Did you? And I can spell his name right. I remember at the time the view was his bowling in that 75/76 series against the Windies was faster than in 74/5 against the poor bleedin; Poms, and as fast as he ever got.
Not sure I agree, he's scored runs everywhere.
I'm Australian.
I watched all the great fast bowlers through binoculars from behind the umpire at the SCG in the 70's and 80's (back when it had "The Hill")
and the ball's trajectory looked different through binoculars when Thommo bowled- there was less dip because gravity simply had less time to act on the ball.
It looked almost magnetic like tracer fire.
The only other bowler I've seen do that is Mitchell Starc on ONE delivery. Thommo did it every ball during some spells.
I managed long ago in high school to replicate the Thommo delivery, and it is true that in most instances it did have less dip. This could only because of the difference in execution, not the speed, as there is simply too insufficient a lowering in time to account for it.
for calulating speed at the point of release a frame at which point of release occured must be extrated and then the speed of the camera film or video recording or playing frames/second.after that the formula for (distance/second)x60x60
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you line up fast bowlers 70s ~ 90s Marshal, Holding, Roberts, Garner, Croft, Ambrose, Lillee, Thomson, Hadlee, Waqar, Wasim, Imran, Donald, etc,
2000s + McGrath, Gillespie (could be in either group but I'll give you them) Akhter, Bond, Lee, Pollock, Steyn, Khan, Anderson, etc.
(sure I've forgotten someone).
Now pick your 3/4 best bowlers, I'd only have room for one out of the second group (maybe), none of the others would make the 2nd or 3rd team.
Mcgrath more depends upon his accuracy
every time I saw Jeff bowling he used to spray the ball all over the place
@LordsCricketGround
Is there any way that I can get the complete discussion by the panel? I wouldn't even mind paying.
Even if we discount the obvious differences in timing methods, one random Thomson ball faster than every single Akhtar ball bar one. If you think Akhtar was faster than Thomson you have never seen Thomson bowl and/or you are having a tug.
Yea his official time was 147kph, my guess is he bowled this speed as an average, with a fast ball around 160 and his tired day-5 ball around 140kph.
Thompson officially recorded 160 kmph before the record being broken after 30 years
Thomo was recorded at 147 kmph not 160. But yeah, his 147 meant 160 or more in modern terms
@@waccasali That's not correct. Listen to this video; Thommo was timed at 159kph *at the stumps*, which as a sports scientist told Thommo would be around 175kph (or 108.5mph) out of the hand. And that was after Thomo had served most of a 1 year ban & had been upstairs in the bar drinking for 2 hours!
@@melbguy1 Don't listen to him. The video is on youtube. Watch this
th-cam.com/video/YGcZRxE3kQA/w-d-xo.html
@@melbguy1 Also, if you'll watch the video you'd come to know that he wasn't actually timed from the point of release to the other end but the speed was calculated by measuring time over a grid of about "5 feet" with the help of a camera. Pretty much the way modern bowlers are timed.
@@waccasali He was also recorded at the WACA during a Test match & found to be 99.75mph, 160.45kmh. This was the speed to the batsman in time, not out of the hand that Ahktar, Lee, Tate etc. Big difference. Watch "Speed Kings" they mention it. Might be on TH-cam. In that era, Dennis Lillee was 97mph, even after his back injury. He would've easily matched Ahktar, Lee etc. Still the greatest.
@LordsCricketGround is there a recording of the complete session - I only saw parts of the lecture. ? Thx
@kamranwasti Very interesting. Do you have copies of that magazine ? Actually that was not the match. It was one Aust vs W.I. Australia batted second. Viv was out on like 4 (mis hooking). Lillee gets annoyed with big Bird. All very exciting. So you see I would not be surprised there are a lot more matches from Packer in Pakistan...Anyway where can i get that magazine (second hand of course).
Thx
Imran was #3, meaning he was faster than Roberts, Croft, Lillee, Hadlee, Proctor, Le Roux or anyone else there other than Thomson and Holding. But Imran could bat too! The only others there who were decent batsmen were Hadlee and Proctor, but Imran was good enough to bat at 5 or 6! The sheer all-round talent in one cricketer boggles the mind.
And Imran was only a few years in to actual international cricket when this competition took place in 1978. He wasn't even close to his peak and when he got to his peak, he could never play for 2-3 years due to injuries. And yet at the time he was still #3 pace-wise. You can guys can probably realise how vicious he must've been had he played during his peak. Not to mention how good he was even past his peak, many should be thankful for not having faced Imran for those 2-3 years of his life as it wasn't just his pace, but sheer skill and ability/threat along with ingenuity as a fast bowler (like reverse swing which was passed on to him by Sarfraz Nawaz). Even for the bowling he did when returned to cricket past his prime and what he did before was enough to declare him an all-time bowling legend, forget his captainship, batsmanship and the fact that he never played for 2-3 in his peak. Crazy legend, but so incredibly humble at the same time.
+z6z61im4s99 You're the bullshit king! Imran was at his fast bowling peak for speed around the time of this competition. As was Holding. I seem to remember Greg Chappell hitting 2 double centuries against Imran at his peak plus many more centuries
@@z6z61im4s99 Imran is older than Michael Holding, so I don't buy that he was not at his peak pace.
None hit 200 against Imran even on a dead wicket, he was too good lol
@@aarifboy Sanjay Manjrekar hit 217 against Pak in Pak in 1989. Anshuman Gaekwad also hit 201 against Imran in 1983.
I know we never saw the best of Wakar in Australia, I think he was injured everytime he toured here? Anyway not sure but I know he never bowled well here.
How quick was Imran ??
@LordsCricketGround
Is there any way I can get the complete discussion? I wouldn't even mind paying.
Athletes these days have better facilities, gyms, enhancers and other crap they didn't have back then. These guys practised the old way on hard turf grass, doing push ups, running marathon circles. not having calculated diets and cardiology trainers and a stretcher. Maybe they weren't as fast as Shoaib and Lee but they certainly must have been tougher as nails. Because if you remember Shoaib at the beginning of his career, he was a skinny guy with a fast speed. Period. Later on in his career he was built like a tank with biceps like a semi-bodybuilder. In the 70s or 80s they wouldn't have the knowledge and access to these tune-ups.
So doofus, cite any fast bowling study showing a statistically significant increase in speed from any particular weight training program!
Samuel stupid study well first and then only make fox wisper lol ! ; only thommo has been genius ! ; ☺😃😆 ! ! .
@@venusgjemini5497 You missed the point. it's not about being built like a tank or bodybuilder. That would have been bad for a fast bowler. Shoaib had serious knee problems, that increased after he gained weight, he was injured frequently and missed many tours and matches. The point is, nowadays players are pampered. Those era were real men.
@Dodgy G How do you know Thommo's testosterone was natural... licked inside his nutsack?
Shoaib was a genuine fast bowler. Even if he was on steroids, and you take his additonal weight out; it doesn't nullify him as a fast bowler. It makes it more amazing that he was able to reach those speeds. Not only was he flat footed, and told by doctors he wouldn't be fit to be a fast runner, and holds world records in speed. But also, he conditioned himself by almost trashing his arm throwing heavy stones and bricks, rocks etc. for hours... Then replace that with a cricket ball when he was on the pitch, and you'd see the likes of Brian Lara going falling to the floor after a bouncer. And FYI, Shoaib faced Lara in the 90s when he was a skinny lad. So there goes the steroid theory....
Quickest were Akhtar, Thompson, Holding, Patterson & Lee
marshall?
@@flyingfalcon5065 bro how quick was Malcolm Marshall
@@manjulakr9637 see some of his clips.
Yeah nah...
Get real.
I can agree with all the points made by u guys but u also got to take in considerations of past players. Sobers in an interview saying that he was beaten by just the pace consistantly by guys like tyson, thommo,Lilliee. and he's got the quickest hand i have probably seen and on pitches that were not covered. How may times to guys like lee and akhtar and tait beat batsmen in just pure pace.
MashaAllah SubhanAllah ❤️ My Hero My PM Imran Khan ❤️🇵🇰
In comparison to Jeff Thompson starc is average medium pace bowler
Kumar Atul Wow The Way Said That. MeaNs AamiR CummiNs BumRah R SpiNNeRs TheN ?
@@bilawalgulfaam2374 😂😂😂
Everybody is compared to Thompson except Lee, Akhtar and Tait
@@bilawalgulfaam2374 lol😂
@@loepesci5996 bond as well
plz upload thomson videos
Is there a scorecard of this match?
If you allow me to comment.Being a person who studied degrees in physics and engineering, I would like to say frankly that it is impossible to calculate the speed of a moving body perfectly if you could not capture a frame at the point of release, with the usual cameras. Rest all are approximations of truths; nothing is perfect while only an approximation of truth is possible. Videos recorded at a film speed of 23 frames/sec can allow u to measure up to 156.5217km/hr.depend more on mathematics and physics to find release speed by taking the event at which ball after pitching traveled almost 90yards in air, according to wisden records. You can prove it, if u record speedometers in car simultaneously and the speed gun results.
Oh really 👀
by the way I saw that video in which they recorded the speeds and they recorded the speeds as soon as the ball left the hand. and Thompson was not faster than shoeb and shaun tate or Brett lee
that's because the modern speed gun records speeds at the batsman's end, not at the bowler's end (like Thompson and Imran Khan)
No they don't. It's recorded over the first lineal metre.
Modern guns record it in the first 1.5 yards out of the bowler's hand, not at the batsman's end...And yes thommo's was also recorded out of his hand not at the batsman's end as they say. Thommo knows this too, that's why he seemed a bit apprehensive to say that until the interviewer kind of pushed him in to it.
FYI Andy Roberts is not slow, he was just as fast as Holding but since he was relatively older and he lost his pace a little.
where is the complete interview
Thomos speed as was stated in this video, was calculated as the ball reached the batsman, after the ball had interacted with the pitch, if the speed measurement that is used now measures the speed of the ball as it is released from the bowlers hand before it has interacted with the pitch, the two speeds are not being accurately compared as one speed is after the interaction with the pitch and the other is before any such interaction
It was stated by who exactly?
Lots of things needs to be considered.
Technology at that time.
Fast Pitches at that time.
Absence of protective equipments at that time.
Moreover bowlers of today looks quicker.
"bowlers of today look quicker". That's exactly what a millenial would say. You realise it wouldn't have been because the cameras captured at lower frames/speed back then. Logic? Remember Bruce Lee was known for speed & power, but whenever they used to do a scene, they literally told him to slow his action down, because the cameras couldn't keep up with his speed. He was relatively from their era... He had to "hold back" just to make his action look fluent on the screen, which means slowing down. And this is Hollywood, they had the best camera equipment they could have at the time. Nowadays kids would get destroyed by the old guard. The Windies four? The Pak bowlers? The Aussies fasties. Fast bowlers nowadays are nothing like before. I remember Imran Khan telling that, the only time he was remotely "uncomfortable" during batting, was when Windies was bowling. At their peak days, aka Fast Bowling era... If you read between the line of his words, he passively suggests they easily beat Pak in those days, which were probably the only team that gave them a race for their money when it comes to fast bowling. One incident he brought up; when the Windies four legends would bowl a delivery, Imran described.. "If I did a swing and a miss for example... within no time that ball flew like a bullet, and hit one of the advertisements boards on the outer edges of the circle, before he turned his head... the impact sounded like a shotgun... I had never seen anything like this in fast bowling... We were always on our edges, because safety was on the line aswell" This is the only time I ever saw Imran talking about "respecting" an opponent's power, other than that he gives zero fucks about anyone and approaches them fearlessly. Now you can look up a particular documentary where the England players had insulted Michael Holding and the Windies pacers, and the whole documentary shows how they were intentionally targetted in the body, with pictures of their bodies, looking like victims of a public lynching... That's because they made racial remarks in their sledging to the Windies which the fast bowlers retaliated. This confirms what Imran said that these guys could literally kill people... They were warned plenty of times that time because they were intentionally beating the crap out of the England players, and then bowling them out at the same time... Don't underestimate the old skool fast bowling just because you didn't witness that era. Only a few fast bowlers nowadays were able to instill that type of fear like Akthar but I'm pretty sure these Windies Fast bowlers would have given him a run for his money... Go look up how they physically demolished the England team with bouncers and all kinds of fast bowling tricks, it looks like a documentary on a gang of hitmen and their victims (the England team). Imran wasn't kidding when he admitted those guys, you did not mess with...
Now bowlers are literally being swept by batsmen are they even quick
Samuel L Jackson also today bowling is about sustaining a relatively high speed over a longer period so actions that would deliver great speed are tampered with and thus reduce overall pace.
IMRAN KHAN TRUE LEADER WE LOVE YOU SO MUCH ALWAYS ALLAH BLESS YOU ALWAYS AMEN SUM AMEN
He was the fastest with strange action actually we should ask for this to that time batsman's how difficult was for them to face Jeff Thomson like nowadays faced Mahalinga ......
Nope he wasn't the fastest, he was the fastest by a mile.
Thommo is like an old fisherman. Faster by the year. Sadly, he's become his era's version of Neil Harvey
So says the complete nobody.
Which match is Imran Khan referring to? Can anyone send me any link to the scores? Please.
In the main lecture, Imran talks about the differences in eras. These days bowlers are expected to throw themselves around in the field rather than conserve energy; are expected to be accurate from ball one; are more conscious of avoiding injury. I don't believe that Thommo got up to 180 kph as sometimes claimed. I'm willing to believe was regularly bowling at 160 or slightly over when at his peak. And that was in an era before batsmen were wearing helmets.
I recon tommo bowled 170
"Modern batsmen also have simply better talent for playing yorkers and fast bowls."
How so?
The bowlers aren't as quick they used to be. Movement now seems mucn more important than pace
Greatest cricketer... Now he'll change history of Pakistani politics for good Insha Allah
I agree. And those overs in the competition were of course not random as past nostalgic people claim. When a guy who is capable of bowling 170 kmph(as claimed) knows it is a fast bowling competition- he will go flat put and usually in 10-12 balls (warm up will precede it) he will bowl at least 165-168 kmph. So if Thommo could bowl only 157 kmph( even after dicey addition of 10 kmph to his speed gun measurement) - at most it seems reasonable he was capable of 157-162 kmph. Same as Akhtar lee tai
Garner and Marshall would fare poorly in "modern times....?????
For one, they weren't playing against W.G. Grace, and two, what are you mixing your lassi with?
Mine's a large one.
Take any bowler from past akram McGrath holding khan waqar vas kapil make them fit and take any best batsman from this era kohli williamson root sharma warner finch morgan babar anyone they cant play them bcz now a days there is no bowling pitches at all all flat pitches around the world
@AIMANALI I first read about them as an 8-year old from the collection of old Cricketer magazines (Pakistani ones) that I had gotten from my aunts and uncles. That was in 1986. Then, as an 11-year old in 1989, I read about the match in "All-Round View" (Imran's second book). And then video came up. You'd probably be able to get hold of the match if you can get to the Channel 9 Archives. Imran had his old open-chested action then.
Totally agree regarding records, but that's all we can objectively go on. Put it this way Sanga is always a big wicket if you get him early you've taken a big step in the match. I certainly agree with you about Cook, I was comparing him with Clarke who I think is over-rated.
Shoaib akhtar at his prime was the real beast, people like bretty lee had pace, but Akhtar bowled "heavier " balls at that speed ! I wont read too much into keeper standing too far in older times as may be even gloves were too thin those days!! Only Akhtar looked fast even in television! we could see even good batsmen of pace playing shots late while facing him !!
Brett Lee is the best speeder