One of my favorite magic systems. Possibly dangerous side effects which encourages casters to 'charge up' more powerful spells a bit longer, and utilizing character skills to do all of it, is wonderfully thematic. As are the other intertwining details such as ingredients and special locations.
I do love the cinematics that the magic system provides. Even for players who aren’t that into the immersive aspects of a class, they serve as a sort of autopilot. Overcharge? Ok. But at your own peril!
Really fun and informative video, thanks for making it. Gonna take a while get familiar with all the rules, but I really like the way magic works in WFRP.
Jeremy Barbic Thanks, Jeremy! I think we are in the same boat... Especially with combat. The system is great but it’s learning curve is steep! Our next episode is going to cover advancement and endeavors (viewer request). Let us know if there is any material you think we should cover! Cheers.
I will be running some WFRP for the first time soon and your videos have been great for getting my head around some of the mechanics. I'll probably give your Tides of Nurgle a look too.
I have a question about Channeling. Let's say you want to cast a Fire Bolt which has CN 4. You make 2 Channeling Tests over 2 rounds and you meet the the +4SL to cast it. 3rd round to make a Language Magick Test to cast the spell, let's say you succeed with +1SL. Do the SL on the Channeling Test apply as well? If not, it makes casting spells super hard and not efficient. You spend 3 turns to make a Fire Bolt that does the same damage than a regular sword? (SL+SB+4)?
This is a good question! My read is that the Channeling Test is essentially charging the proverbial battery for that Fire Bolt. So, you test until you've hit that CN of 4. Then, on your next turn, you make a normal casting check, against a CN of 0. So, I guess they want you to have that last chance to mess up when you're aiming that energy. Hyper realistic? I think so. Maybe a but much for a staple spell like Bolt. As for damage, your example would cause (SL+WB+4) to a location based on the reverse of the casting roll (see page 236). Hopefully, I answered your question. All in, I think I agree with your sentiments on this one.
11:35 No not the Wisdom Bonus, but the Willpower Bonus (page 236). Btw the video is awesome helpful, nice job! And i have 2 questions: 1. Does channelling available for every spell or is it restricted to higher spells? I didnt find any rule for restrictions, so i think any spells can be channelled. What is your opinion on this? 2. If any spell can be channelled, than for example if a sorcerer says, that he will channelling for a spell with low CN like "Aethyric armour" (page 242) which has only 2 CN and the sorcerer gets the +2 SL with the first roll, than what rule should be applied? A) Ok, but he needs to wait for the next turn to cast it, because he channelled that spell. B) Ok, he reached the CN so he can cast it right in that round even if it was channelled. I think A) would be the right answer. What are your thoughts about this?
I'm thinking that since you used Channeling that turn, it counts as your full action. Therefore the spell goes off next turn. Otherwise just a normal casting is required to go off in the same turn.
Thank you for that video, it cleared up some things :) Still, not all of them :) 1. Touch spells - so first a mage has to make a language (magick) test to determine SL (added to damage later) and then test brawling if they manage to hit? And touch spell that are magic missles differs only in using brawl test for hit location, while they damage is still counted based on SL from language test? 2. Can channeling exceed required SL to increase spell power? For example, mage need 4 SL, in tests he rolls 6, what happen with 2 additional SL? Also, is the casted spell determined before channeling or can it be changed during channeling tests? Let's say mage wants to cast spell requiring 8 SL, but he notices, that situation changed and after obtaining 4 SL wants to cast spell requiring 4 SL, can he do that?
matthaios67 Hello! So glad you’re enjoying the series. We’re learning a lot as we go for sure! 1. Yes. First you make the casting roll. I think of this as being able to manifest the energy. This SL goes to damage. The brawling represents being able to touch a target who might be squirming, slashing, biting or whatever else. Some spalls are magic missile but have a range of touch (which... meh). Here, you’d have to use Brawling instead of the casting roll. 2. There isn’t anything in the rules about either of these solid points so I’d guess it winds up being a GM call. I’d say you would need to declare what you’re channeling for because it requires such deep concentration that you’re probably not able to observe the situation. Paying enough attention to pick up on a change in the flow of battle might be enough of an interruption to muddle it up anyway. Personally, though, I’d want my player to ask every time. I’m likely to allow it in return for a miscast or something of the sort. The SL overage up on channeling... The rules don’t cover this except for critical success meaning immediate an charge. Maybe use the Overcasting rule (page 238$ to apply the additional SL to the spell in question? Thanks for the excellent question. This one sparked a text conversation between Eric, James and I. :)
@@MythBrigade Thanks a lot for your answer :) Just to make sure, because you wrote " Here, you’d have to use Brawling instead of the casting roll" - it's used only to determine hit location, but damage is still counted from language test? That's how we were doing it. Also, I'm pretty sure that rulebook does not say anything about failing to 'touch' enemy with successful language test. That could be some cool homerule to have a minor miscast or something like that happen. As for the channeling, today I've found an official answer on one of the forums, that excees SL on channeling does nothing. Again, I think that your suggestion with overcasting could be quite cool. Magic is gathered in one way or another, something should happen with it :) Not being able to change spell while channeling is quite obvious when presented like you did, so I'll stick with it :)
Hi. I'm really enjoying the series and your style. I should imagine that it really comes through when you GM (I've yet to watch your Nurgle stuff). Can you tell me how advantage works with magic? We play that if a mage casts a spell that successfully damages a player he gains advantage (and often more importantly removes advantage from the bad guy). However, the mage doesn't seem to have an outlet to benefit from the advantage. Is this right or should we be using advantage when casting spells? Thank you and keep up the good work. Dan
balin1920 There are 8 orders of magic around which Emperor Magnus (I think) formed colleges. These are all around elements though but the winds of magic. Here’s a solid piece on magical history: warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Colleges_of_Magic
@@MythBrigade I'm tracking the imperial collages. I was referring to the elemental collages of magic. The ones that follow the elemental magic theory humans used before teclis. It was from 1st edition so I was curious if its still around. I liked the concept, they would draw on the winds but with their own theories and with a big emphasis on ingridients.
@@balin1920 Pre-Organized magic is usually referred to Hedge magick or Witchery in 4th ed. There's no well-fleshed out concept for "pre college"-magick
I like how WFRP does magic, its really good. I'm also loving this enrire playlist! I recently bought the WFRP 4E corebook, and this playlist is great for bullet-pointing the rules. So far it feels like a mix between D&D, RuneQuest, and Rolemaster. Great stuff !!!
Interesting. Casting doesn't seem to work like in the Warhammer fantasy tabletop battle game at all. There all lores have a rather specific range of effects (fire is pretty much purely destructive, shadow deals with illusion and translocation, metal is mainly transmutation...) although a bit of damage dealing is part of every lore. Still, the lore of life is very limited in that regard. What's more interesting is that everyone more or less draws from the same ambient energy pool and the likelyhood of success as well as loosing control depends on how much of that energy you draw, with better wizard generally being more efficient (capable of more consistently pulling of the same strength spells with less energy). Also wizards generally only know rather few spells. I'd like to see a system that touches this shared resource and gambling aspect. Maybe something where channeling and casting work a bit differently? I could involve drawing a variable amount per turn (subtracted from the ambient magic) until the casting value is met and somehow containing that amount with skillchecks, resulting in miscasts if you fail (bite more than you can chew). One example would be every point of power above 1 being channeled increasing the difficulty by 10. Also what happened to Dharr? Why is Necromancy Chaos magic?
I don't get casting spells? What does sl mean? When I cast a spell and succeed language but get a 10 and the spell is cn3 it doesn't go off? Because that is an SL1? I don't get it.
sl is success level. cn3 I believe means you need to do a channelling test and get +3 Success Levels on it, then you do a language (magic) test to see if the spell actually works.
I'm looking at a Bray-Shaman (Beastman caster) entry - It has the Spellcaster trait (Beasts plus one of Chaos, Death, or Shadow) So I assume that to cast spells this Shaman has Second Sight, can Channel, and since it has spellcasting as an 'innate ability' I assume that they have the Language (Magick) advanced skill at 30 (Int) plus some advances - maybe 20? for a Language (Magick) skill of between 40 and 60? They would probably readily use Warpstone if it's available to them. Can they use Petty Magic and Arcane Magic? Maybe Petty only.... They can probably Dispel spells of the Lore areas they know? Have I missed an entire section of rules? Is 'Monster' spell casting addressed in detail and I missed it? The entry in the Bestiary chapter under the Spellcaster trait literally just says, "The creature can cast spells" - no cross reference to any other rules or section of the rules. It appears that there is a lot left unsaid about how the GM is to handle 'monster' spell casting.....
I don't like the magic system at all its pretty useless in combat. You need a extremely high chanelling and language skill to be able to cast anything but petty spells before the fight is over. A standard sword and a standard character is more useful.
With you on this point. I run 2nd ed & some of the Casting Numbers & shitty durations are well out of synch BUT that's been easy to adjust. My biggest beef with 4th ed is that it's been a bit D&D'd : what I mean is you can take a talent that avoids any bad miscasts results. That to me says C7 either haven't grasped the underlying theme of the winds of magic or they've pandered to the D&D pussy crowd i.e tried to go to easy on spellcasters. For something that's supposed to based on battle magic those high SL's make it more like ritual spellcasting!
I heavily dislike this system so far. to be able to permanently acces a spell, you guarantee you will be behind the rest of the group - on top of being inherently weaker. When you attempt to cast it, you make a roll to see if you can do it. Then you make another roll to see if you hit. After all these hoops, the effects should be VERY potent - and im pretty sure they are not How it should go: if I am alway half as useful as the other players, because I spend tons of XP on memorizing spells, attempt a spell that can only work with the highest number rolled, and I do roll it - half of the continent is exploded. How it most likely works: I am half as useful as the other players because I spend tons of xp on memorizing spells, attemt a spell that only works with the highest number rolled, and I do roll it - only for it to mildly irritate a single enemy. The more hoops a system puts in place, the more epic the success must be, and they always fail at achieving the effect that would make jumping through all the hoops satisfying. They always generate unrealistic expectations by making everything dificult to execute, and the results never met the expectations they themselves generate
One of my favorite magic systems. Possibly dangerous side effects which encourages casters to 'charge up' more powerful spells a bit longer, and utilizing character skills to do all of it, is wonderfully thematic. As are the other intertwining details such as ingredients and special locations.
I do love the cinematics that the magic system provides. Even for players who aren’t that into the immersive aspects of a class, they serve as a sort of autopilot. Overcharge? Ok. But at your own peril!
Really fun and informative video, thanks for making it. Gonna take a while get familiar with all the rules, but I really like the way magic works in WFRP.
Jeremy Barbic Thanks, Jeremy! I think we are in the same boat... Especially with combat. The system is great but it’s learning curve is steep! Our next episode is going to cover advancement and endeavors (viewer request). Let us know if there is any material you think we should cover! Cheers.
Thanks for tackling Magiks!! We are easing into the system and avoiding magic at first (so players get used to skill tests, combats, etc.)
Carlos Rodriguez Nice! We did all random OC gen and wound up with no casters. The combat system is the heaviest so I think your approach is smart!
Trippy lightning effect.
BossHogg I think it’s a bad ground in one of the LEDs! Lol.
I will be running some WFRP for the first time soon and your videos have been great for getting my head around some of the mechanics. I'll probably give your Tides of Nurgle a look too.
Streaming?!
Very informative!
Glad it was helpful! Is your group streaming the game or playing in person?
I have a question about Channeling.
Let's say you want to cast a Fire Bolt which has CN 4.
You make 2 Channeling Tests over 2 rounds and you meet the the +4SL to cast it.
3rd round to make a Language Magick Test to cast the spell, let's say you succeed with +1SL. Do the SL on the Channeling Test apply as well?
If not, it makes casting spells super hard and not efficient. You spend 3 turns to make a Fire Bolt that does the same damage than a regular sword? (SL+SB+4)?
This is a good question! My read is that the Channeling Test is essentially charging the proverbial battery for that Fire Bolt. So, you test until you've hit that CN of 4.
Then, on your next turn, you make a normal casting check, against a CN of 0. So, I guess they want you to have that last chance to mess up when you're aiming that energy. Hyper realistic? I think so. Maybe a but much for a staple spell like Bolt.
As for damage, your example would cause (SL+WB+4) to a location based on the reverse of the casting roll (see page 236).
Hopefully, I answered your question. All in, I think I agree with your sentiments on this one.
Thanks for these vids.
woeskwee Seldom without error but always a pleasure! Cheers l!!
11:35 No not the Wisdom Bonus, but the Willpower Bonus (page 236). Btw the video is awesome helpful, nice job!
And i have 2 questions:
1. Does channelling available for every spell or is it restricted to higher spells? I didnt find any rule for restrictions, so i think any spells can be channelled. What is your opinion on this?
2. If any spell can be channelled, than for example if a sorcerer says, that he will channelling for a spell with low CN like "Aethyric armour" (page 242) which has only 2 CN and the sorcerer gets the +2 SL with the first roll, than what rule should be applied? A) Ok, but he needs to wait for the next turn to cast it, because he channelled that spell. B) Ok, he reached the CN so he can cast it right in that round even if it was channelled. I think A) would be the right answer. What are your thoughts about this?
I'm thinking that since you used Channeling that turn, it counts as your full action. Therefore the spell goes off next turn. Otherwise just a normal casting is required to go off in the same turn.
Damn Nurgle and that COVID. Great video.
Thank you for that video, it cleared up some things :) Still, not all of them :)
1. Touch spells - so first a mage has to make a language (magick) test to determine SL (added to damage later) and then test brawling if they manage to hit? And touch spell that are magic missles differs only in using brawl test for hit location, while they damage is still counted based on SL from language test?
2. Can channeling exceed required SL to increase spell power? For example, mage need 4 SL, in tests he rolls 6, what happen with 2 additional SL? Also, is the casted spell determined before channeling or can it be changed during channeling tests? Let's say mage wants to cast spell requiring 8 SL, but he notices, that situation changed and after obtaining 4 SL wants to cast spell requiring 4 SL, can he do that?
matthaios67 Hello! So glad you’re enjoying the series. We’re learning a lot as we go for sure!
1. Yes. First you make the casting roll. I think of this as being able to manifest the energy. This SL goes to damage. The brawling represents being able to touch a target who might be squirming, slashing, biting or whatever else. Some spalls are magic missile but have a range of touch (which... meh). Here, you’d have to use Brawling instead of the casting roll.
2. There isn’t anything in the rules about either of these solid points so I’d guess it winds up being a GM call. I’d say you would need to declare what you’re channeling for because it requires such deep concentration that you’re probably not able to observe the situation. Paying enough attention to pick up on a change in the flow of battle might be enough of an interruption to muddle it up anyway. Personally, though, I’d want my player to ask every time. I’m likely to allow it in return for a miscast or something of the sort.
The SL overage up on channeling... The rules don’t cover this except for critical success meaning immediate an charge. Maybe use the Overcasting rule (page 238$ to apply the additional SL to the spell in question?
Thanks for the excellent question. This one sparked a text conversation between Eric, James and I. :)
@@MythBrigade Thanks a lot for your answer :) Just to make sure, because you wrote " Here, you’d have to use Brawling instead of the casting roll" - it's used only to determine hit location, but damage is still counted from language test? That's how we were doing it.
Also, I'm pretty sure that rulebook does not say anything about failing to 'touch' enemy with successful language test. That could be some cool homerule to have a minor miscast or something like that happen.
As for the channeling, today I've found an official answer on one of the forums, that excees SL on channeling does nothing. Again, I think that your suggestion with overcasting could be quite cool. Magic is gathered in one way or another, something should happen with it :)
Not being able to change spell while channeling is quite obvious when presented like you did, so I'll stick with it :)
Question: can Magic Missile-type spells be avoided? Say, opposed Dodge/Language(Magic) or Melee(Parry)/Language(Magic) tests?
Hi. I'm really enjoying the series and your style. I should imagine that it really comes through when you GM (I've yet to watch your Nurgle stuff).
Can you tell me how advantage works with magic? We play that if a mage casts a spell that successfully damages a player he gains advantage (and often more importantly removes advantage from the bad guy). However, the mage doesn't seem to have an outlet to benefit from the advantage. Is this right or should we be using advantage when casting spells?
Thank you and keep up the good work.
Dan
Great video series
Glad you'r enjoying, Dave! Working on an episode plan for 2021 for this and Tides of Nurgle! Looking forward to jumping back into the Old World!
Are elemental collages of magic still cannon?
balin1920 There are 8 orders of magic around which Emperor Magnus (I think) formed colleges. These are all around elements though but the winds of magic.
Here’s a solid piece on magical history:
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Colleges_of_Magic
They still are canon, yes.
@@MythBrigade I'm tracking the imperial collages. I was referring to the elemental collages of magic. The ones that follow the elemental magic theory humans used before teclis. It was from 1st edition so I was curious if its still around. I liked the concept, they would draw on the winds but with their own theories and with a big emphasis on ingridients.
@@balin1920 Pre-Organized magic is usually referred to Hedge magick or Witchery in 4th ed. There's no well-fleshed out concept for "pre college"-magick
I like how WFRP does magic, its really good.
I'm also loving this enrire playlist!
I recently bought the WFRP 4E corebook, and this playlist is great for bullet-pointing the rules.
So far it feels like a mix between D&D, RuneQuest, and Rolemaster.
Great stuff !!!
Interesting. Casting doesn't seem to work like in the Warhammer fantasy tabletop battle game at all.
There all lores have a rather specific range of effects (fire is pretty much purely destructive, shadow deals with illusion and translocation, metal is mainly transmutation...) although a bit of damage dealing is part of every lore. Still, the lore of life is very limited in that regard.
What's more interesting is that everyone more or less draws from the same ambient energy pool and the likelyhood of success as well as loosing control depends on how much of that energy you draw, with better wizard generally being more efficient (capable of more consistently pulling of the same strength spells with less energy). Also wizards generally only know rather few spells.
I'd like to see a system that touches this shared resource and gambling aspect. Maybe something where channeling and casting work a bit differently? I could involve drawing a variable amount per turn (subtracted from the ambient magic) until the casting value is met and somehow containing that amount with skillchecks, resulting in miscasts if you fail (bite more than you can chew). One example would be every point of power above 1 being channeled increasing the difficulty by 10.
Also what happened to Dharr? Why is Necromancy Chaos magic?
I don't get casting spells? What does sl mean? When I cast a spell and succeed language but get a 10 and the spell is cn3 it doesn't go off? Because that is an SL1? I don't get it.
sl is success level. cn3 I believe means you need to do a channelling test and get +3 Success Levels on it, then you do a language (magic) test to see if the spell actually works.
I'm looking at a Bray-Shaman (Beastman caster) entry - It has the Spellcaster trait (Beasts plus one of Chaos, Death, or Shadow)
So I assume that to cast spells this Shaman has Second Sight, can Channel, and since it has spellcasting as an 'innate ability' I assume that they have the Language (Magick) advanced skill at 30 (Int) plus some advances - maybe 20? for a Language (Magick) skill of between 40 and 60?
They would probably readily use Warpstone if it's available to them.
Can they use Petty Magic and Arcane Magic? Maybe Petty only....
They can probably Dispel spells of the Lore areas they know?
Have I missed an entire section of rules? Is 'Monster' spell casting addressed in detail and I missed it? The entry in the Bestiary chapter under the Spellcaster trait literally just says, "The creature can cast spells" - no cross reference to any other rules or section of the rules.
It appears that there is a lot left unsaid about how the GM is to handle 'monster' spell casting.....
Amber magic all day!
I don't like the magic system at all its pretty useless in combat. You need a extremely high chanelling and language skill to be able to cast anything but petty spells before the fight is over. A standard sword and a standard character is more useful.
With you on this point. I run 2nd ed & some of the Casting Numbers & shitty durations are well out of synch BUT that's been easy to adjust. My biggest beef with 4th ed is that it's been a bit D&D'd : what I mean is you can take a talent that avoids any bad miscasts results. That to me says C7 either haven't grasped the underlying theme of the winds of magic or they've pandered to the D&D pussy crowd i.e tried to go to easy on spellcasters. For something that's supposed to based on battle magic those high SL's make it more like ritual spellcasting!
I heavily dislike this system so far.
to be able to permanently acces a spell, you guarantee you will be behind the rest of the group - on top of being inherently weaker.
When you attempt to cast it, you make a roll to see if you can do it.
Then you make another roll to see if you hit.
After all these hoops, the effects should be VERY potent - and im pretty sure they are not
How it should go: if I am alway half as useful as the other players, because I spend tons of XP on memorizing spells, attempt a spell that can only work with the highest number rolled, and I do roll it - half of the continent is exploded.
How it most likely works: I am half as useful as the other players because I spend tons of xp on memorizing spells, attemt a spell that only works with the highest number rolled, and I do roll it - only for it to mildly irritate a single enemy.
The more hoops a system puts in place, the more epic the success must be, and they always fail at achieving the effect that would make jumping through all the hoops satisfying.
They always generate unrealistic expectations by making everything dificult to execute, and the results never met the expectations they themselves generate