Anytime I hear stories about mormons I think of the one time two members showed up to my home and I answered the door in a BLUE DINOSAUR onsie. They immediately laughed so hard, I mentioned I'm a nightshift worker and they said sorry for waking me and left.
Nice. I answered the door wearing a rainbow color shirt and they fled, no one's been back since. Shirt had absolutely nothing to do with queer people (though I am queer), but migraine, it was just colorful because color is fun.
The Kirby rep requiring the husband to be home is probably a sales tactic. "I have to check with my spouse" is a common soft no. If you have both decision makers are present, you can't use the absent spouse as an excuse to put the sales rep off.
It's sadly a lot more than that. In my area, at least, It has to do with who they target, and having them be able to qualify for the credit used to buy the vacuum. It was a way for them to be able to deny claims they pressured someone into signing loan papers if it went to court/collections. They also used it as a way to avoid canceling contracts. If 2 people signed the contract to get the vacuum, 2 people have to sign to cancel.
Coming here to say this! I just attended a timeshare pitch where they required if you had a spouse/live-in partner, you had to bring them & while they didn't say so, it was obviously bc they knew "I can't spend $20k without my partner's approval" would be a common response without it
A few years ago I had someone ask me the same question. It was a genuine question from this company because it was a significant $ amount expense and the person said that the company had been caught out where one person had agreed to the work but their partner said no. As a single person it never occurred to me that this could happen.
I had a window salesman at my door two weeks ago who was being really pushy while I stood there with headphones in my ears and raw chicken on one hand because he interrupted dinner. The guy seriously asked to talk to my husband. I told him I don't have one (I do, but wtf) and he said, "Good that makes it easier!" Said the quiet part out loud.
My son's father abandoned us after finding out that he would be born with hydrocephalus and possible spinal bifida. He was the one who wanted kids and even got me pregnant without my consent. I didn't know about the medical issues until much later in the pregnancy unfortunately. It's sad but men do this all the time. They don't want to have to help out more
The first story makes me so angry. That Mary Kay lady is not just clueless, but evil. I would have just got up and left as soon as she said "When you lose the baby." OMG! 😮
The Kirby story was mine! I'm so glad you liked it. It was surreal during the whole experience. I have two thoughts on why they wanted a couple. First, and this is very patriarchal, they figured the "man" of the household would be the decision maker on larger ticket items. Second, if they could sell us both, then it would be less likely we would return the item because the spouse was in agreement. In our case, it worked in their favor initially because I would have never bought it in the first place if my husband hadn't been so on board.
I got suckered into a Kirby for a hot minute. I did use the three day recission period in Washington state to make them come and pick it up from my husband while I was at work so that I didn't have to face them again.
@Insatia206 they didn't give us that option. It was "you need to bring it to us". But I got to see the inner workings, and that has been the best help ever in seeing through all those types of sales tricks.
Thanks for sharing your story! My husband got suckered (fortunately, temporarily) by a pair of Kirby reps who visited while I was on a business trip. I came home to our Dirt Devil gone and a contract signed to buy a $2k Kirby, while we were still paying off student loans and a car largely on a single income. Oh, and in an APARTMENT with only 1 carpeted room to boot. In no way were we in need of, or budgeted for, a fancy vacuum cleaner. I cried, we argued, and ultimately husband got the purchase canceled and our Dirt Devil back. We get a number of door-to-door calls selling services these days and while the Kirby experience left us wiser, ngl, we have had some of these salespeople wheedle into our homes (at least it was because we actually were in the market for the services this time). Thanks again for sharing :)
Thanks for that great story!! Yes, totally agree with your points! Probably in the same way that Amway targets couples, they wanted both of you present so they can get both of you on the same page 😖
Jordn and McKay (mostly post-LDS channel) just did a story about LDS/MLM pipeline. They played a couple of your clips and gave you a lovely shout out. Something not mentioned in the story is that Utah is a very friendly state to MLM companies and there are quite a few headquartered there. Also, Utah's long time Senator Orrin Hatch was instrumental in the 1970s to keep vitamins/herbal remedies out of FDA regulation which I think helped the oil based MLMs gain popularity.
Was about to comment this! Highly recommend their video to anyone wanting to know more. One of my favorite quotes from that video was "mormon missionaries are used to selling something that nobody wants." 😂
I bopped off to watch the Jordon and McKay video you referenced. It was excellent, a real deep dive into why LDS members are so into MLMs. Thanks for the reference. And the ending was the best part-their cat got right into the camera shot!
I was thinking of this exact video when she prefaced that story. That was a rly well done story & other anti mlm creators have discussed this but J&M def had the ability to do an inside look from having been in the church. They rly prey on that denomination & it’s so sad. If you’re already in one cult you’re at such a higher rate to be sucked into another.
So if we chuck a few cloves of garlic their way, they'll flee into the shadows from whence they came? I mean, nothing else gets them to leave, so it's worth a try.
re kurby (kirby?) reps: if they enter your home WITHOUT permission, it is trespass. if they enter with permission but you later revoke that permission by asking/telling them to leave, it IS trespass. trespass is a CRIME. call the police.
Absolutely. I never understood how ppl allow these sales ppl stay in their home for hours basically holding them hostage. This happened when my sis was shopping for windows. They were there for over SIX HOURS!!!! They wouldn’t leave! I asked her WHY WOULD YOU ALLOW THIS???? If I was subjected to this, I would absolutely threaten calling the police if they didn’t leave when I needed them to. I truly don’t get why it’s so hard to be stern and firm with ppl especially pushy sales ppl who have no respect for your time.
"defiant trespass". ive had to call police to my store after asking someone to leave and they wouldnt. thats all you need to say. youre completely correct!
It's surprising to me that they still use this tactic considering that there are states which allow you to legally take lethal action if someone unwanted is on your property. You can legally be shot for just knocking on the wrong door these days.
@@WriteMeASong7I don’t understand it either. I think people are more scared of coming off rude to a complete stranger who has crossed boundaries than being uncomfortable. Personally, I let go of the fear of seeming rude years ago especially in my OWN home!
Manif someone tried to force themselves into my home and then refuse to leave the cops would be called and they can deal with them. They to sell the police your vacuum lol 😅😅
I am LDS too and served a mission and I completely agree and went through all of the same stuff when I served back in 2014 and ended up going home early because the extremely controlled environment made me mentally ill and caused me to have severe PTSD that after 10 years I am still fighting to get myself under control. The mission even has a designated doctor that you are only able to see for everything that they deem an issue and that man had the nerve to call me fat and make me feel horrible about myself every chance he got that even my companions started making fun of me and making work out even harder and made comments if I ate “too much” that I became anorexic. I now permanent damage to my immune system and body that I cannot get back or reverse. I tell all the new missionaries I talk with to this day about to question the model of the system. I am an active member of the church still but I make sure that everyone hears my story in the church because if this set up is hidden then others will end up like me or worse.
I’m so sorry that happened to you! I generally had a good experience on my mission in Europe, but I’ve heard stories from roommates and friends about bad experiences and mental health crises that I think are so important for people to hear and tell. Some of them I heard before serving my own mission, and I think that helped me. So, I’m glad to hear that you are vocal about your own experience. I hope you are doing well and I wish you the best!
It really a roulette. Same with Pentecostals who go on missions to build wells and clean up from disasters. You could get a good assignment or a bad one. But I do believe if the bad ones, everyone spoke out about them and members came together to fight for change in those areas there would be less bad ones. @@fantasymagic97
Former member, I'm so sorry you went through that💚 I hope you find peace. I found a lot of solace in listening to Mormon Stories Podcast (I loved the church so losing what felt like home was a void) and hearing stories like yours. The members aren't bad (for the most part), the company that is the church is. (For reason I left...caught a "pluto" that was "training his daughter's how to please a husband" youngest was single digit age. When the bishop called to tell me he was off life support and passed I asked what the church would do for his family and other victims, he responded "he didn't really do anything wrong, the children should use that to ponder why Heavenly Father wanted them to do that"... complete blame on the *children* and *God*. Went on to explain his victims not members, there was quite a few, should be pushed for baptism so they can understand God's love is why the perv did that. Absolute disgust. The SP gave similar answer. This was in the PNW just like 4yrs or so ago. Have asked to be excommunicated and told "no need, you have no sin in it". Please stay safe and vigilant. And remember you can still believe in God's amazing love, the morals we were taught from WOW/FHE/YW values ect and not pay a fee to protect those that harm His most pure.)
@@kristanricketts5028 thank you so much. I have been doing therapy for 10 years now that I make sure not to have an LDS therapist so I have a neutral opinion and how to work through all of my stuff. I am on tons of medication that I’ve been told by members and that if I believed more that I wouldn’t need them and let’s just say I lost my crap on them for that. I will admit I stood infront of the my whole home stake presidency and told them that the gospel is true but the people including the leadership are what make the church the problem
My elementary school did book fairs. They used to take away one of your recesses a day if you didn't purchase at least one thing. I guess maybe they were getting kickbacks. I didn't want to repeat the year before when I missed recesses, so I stole $20 from my aunt. (She still holds it against me to this day almost 30 years later) to buy a pencil so I wouldn't get in trouble. When I came clean my mom marched down to the school and screamed at the principle and threatened to go to the school board or paper or something. Suddenly, there was no punishment for not purchasing from the book fair nor a punishment if you failed to sell something from the Christmas catalogue from that weird company that made kids do door to door sales each year. Edit: And yes, after getting the pencil I put the change back in my aunt's drawer.
I’m so sorry! My husband is an elementary school media specialist, and he would never pressure any kid to buy. He would also raise Cain if the administration or county tried to do that. Kids need recess, and kids should never be required to buy from the school.
@@MaidMirawyn I'm sure so much has changed since the early 90s when I was a kid, I think people our age have really made big changes in child focused fields
I loved the Scholastic book fairs at school when I was a kid. This was in the late 80s though and there was definitely no penalty for not buying anything. But I also didn't go to a school that got "recess" either. We had a 20 or 25 minute PE class but that was it. And it wouldn't have worked there at the schools I went to, at least 75-80% of students easily qualified for free or reduced lunches. Wasn't a lot of extra money flying around for the book fair.
I’m so glad you read this letter about the LDS mission. I recently found out that my coworker’s missionary son was eating one meal a day because they didn’t have enough money for food. The members in the (very affluent ) area were supposed to feed the missionaries dinner every night, but it wasn’t happening. He was experiencing symptoms of malnutrition 😱. We sent him gift cards to use for groceries because his family can’t afford to help much (they are already paying about $550/month for his mission). Crazy!
It's incredibly sad how a church that has over 200 billion dollars, asks their young people to pay $500 a month to be their sales people and also lets them go hungry. I grew up LDS and was a member my whole life until 2022. 49 years. My husband and fed the missionaries as often as we could and when we became more financially stable, we often bought them groceries. I am so sorry your friend's son was going through that. When my nephew served his mission in 2017-2019, they were rarely fed by the members. We sent him gift cards for food all the time.
It infuriates me that missionaries go hungry when they're PAYING to be there, and the church has at least $100 billion dollars just stashed away in stock portfolios. But I think the starvation is purposeful--lots of high-demand religions limit food. It affects cognitive function, and makes people easier to control. They're too hungry to think critically about how badly they're being treated.
I've heard so many similar stories about missionaries. Usually, it's because they're in areas that are too food insecure to give food to the missionaries and it's upsetting to hear that it happens in other areas as well. They also don't have time to cook for themselves so it's impossible for them to eat afforably and nutritiously.
Why the church’s not paying them? Genuinely asking, as from outside mission work doesn’t seem optional and something that is in purview of the church why they’re not responsible of the welfare of the missionaries?
Katja, I hope you see this - 1) your English is impeccable; and, you are an exceptionally talented writer! 2) the way you've described your peace in body image, and view of health vs weight, is really wonderful. I can't tell you how much I appreciated hearing what you said, and I have so much respect and admiration for your wisdom on this subject. It cannot be emphasized enough, especially to women: weight is NOT automatically equivalent to health; but, much more importantly, neither weight nor health determine our dignity and the intrinsic worth/value of human life!
Recently LDS mission rules were changed so that missionaries can call home more often; my younger brother got to call my mom every week of his mission from 2020-2022. But honestly, at least LDS missions are only supposed to be 18-24 months and then you go back to living regular life. In contrast, MLMs try to basically keep you until you either drop out without any money left or rise through the ranks. Business practices and religious practices should not mix and I hate hate HATE that Utah and the LDS church, both things I love and that are important to me, are also MLM breeding grounds. Somehow I have only been given an MLM business pitch a couple times in my life despite growing up LDS, but it makes me so sad that many other LDS people are not so fortunate and have even fallen for them. Really, I grew up in the LDS church, I was taught in my family of all LDS members to ask questions and seek answers instead of just blindly following, and I am just baffled that it seems other members don't do that enough. Signed a member of the LDS church that is also anti-MLM
the mission itself might only be 18-24 months but they are super traumatizing and so highly controlled. that was the point of the story. it doesn’t matter how long you’re there bc it’s damaging from day 1
@@clairedeluneonthemoon I know people that found them traumatizing but I also know people (including all four of my brothers) that found them worth the time they put into the mission. Some people also do get sent on missions that really shouldn't have been sent despite the vetting process, and some even get sent home early. It isn't as clear cut as the person writing that email made it out to be.
Thank you amber dawn for this comment. I could have written it myself. Ninja attack, I am so sorry this was so traumatizing for you. I didn’t serve a mission but I’ve met many people who also had traumatic experiences on their missions, and also many people who had incredibly positive experiences. I wish you peace and healing.
I had someone in a previous ward text me out of the blue to tell me the spirit had prompted her to share doterra with me. I'm not anti-mlm, but that text blew my mind. Even better, she's a distant cousin and felt the need to bring that up as well, despite the fact that we hardly interacted at church. 😂
I got into anti-mlm bc true crime got to be a bit too much some times but this still covers everyday crime just not (most of the time) in a physically violent way
I got into true crime as a way to feel safe. I remember Ted Bundy pretended to have a broken arm to get women to walk to his car. I know a lot of tips of what not to do, thanks to true crime. I feel like anti-MLM content gives me that sense of security as well. I know how to shut down MLM huns, thanks to videos like this.
I’m a Latter Day Saint and It is sadly taboo to be anti mlm because of how prevalent they are. Ive been trying my best to talk to people behind the scenes and generally, the younger generation seems to know they’re a scam.
Is it taboo to be anti-MLM in the church, or is it taboo to be anti-mlm in the church culture of that area? I feel like the taboo-ness comes from the culture of the particular area more so than any actual church teachings/doctrine. I'm an active member in an area where we have a decent number, but I don't feel like we are encouraged to support or join MLMs here. I know a couple that have for one reason or another, but they seem more the exception than the rule where I am. I think we need to focus more on changing the culture. I say good on you for working behind the scenes in your area where MLMs are more prevalent, and I hope that it becomes less taboo the more people realize how much of a scam they are. I do think that evangelical religions are more prone to prime people to join MLMs because the members of such religions are taught to share or "sell others" on their beliefs. Serving missions prime you to become sales people--even door-to-door sales people. You learn to accept rejection and loss and keep going. These skills translate well to an MLM job based on the model so I can see why there is a lot of overlap. These skills can be used for good as well as evil, and it can be hard to see the difference. I also think that there can be evil--or perhaps more commonly misguided--people in the church that help perpetuate behaviors and ideas that shouldn't be perpetuated. Unfortunately, we are all fallible.
@@loris6341 to answer your question, guess it really just depends but generally, I think it is the church culture in the area but also individuals that have legitimized and normalized the business model, even outside of lds filled areas like Utah or Idaho. My family that has been notoriously in mlms is entirely based out of Florida. I wouldn’t say we are encouraged to support or join mlms here, but it’s hard to ignore their influence, especially since they’re legitimized. I go to school at byu Idaho and melaleuca HQ is in our backyard, always at career fairs, and their former employees have a strong presence at our school. That Is just one example but i guess what im trying to say is that while it isn’t supported or encouraged, it’s not given the scrutiny or discouragement that it deserves. I’ll be more than happy to elaborate and I also want to make it clear that I don’t disagree with anything you said.
@@loris6341 Amen! Cultural traditions vs Doctrine is a crucial distinction. Edit: and for some people emotional experiences and spiritual experiences are the same, and I think that helps cultural/family traditions seem like spiritual truth.
Re: the Kirby story. I read a psychology book years ago which said that salespeople (not just Kirby ones) are generally taught to speak to a couple together. Apparently couples are easier to talk into things than if the person was on their own. Maybe because they can’t use the “I need to discuss this with my spouse first” excuse.
One of the first things I learned working high-end retail is that unless the couple is shopping together, you're unlikely to close a high-dollar sale until "I speak to my spouse first."
Thank you for being respectful toward the LDS church. I'm an active member who loved my mission but I'm also very anti mlm. It totally makes sense why so many members get roped into these schemes and I wish it wasn't so!
Yes, fellow member here, and I'm so grateful for the way she did her best to be respectful to the church and its members! It's hard to hear when others don't have a good experience in the gospel, but I'm glad that at the end of the day, Hannah was polite, even though you can tell she has her own reservations about it for herself 💕
Also an active member here and I grew up with anti MLM parents and am likewise anti MLM. So glad I had the upbringing I did. I loved my mission but i feel like the experience of my internal rights was different than most because my parents taught me to question. It was that exact kind of questioning that had led my own mom to the church when her Catholic teachers couldn’t answer theological questions or contradicted themselves... off point. I love this content and I’m seriously thinking of sharing it around with ladies I know who are stuck in MLM’s or keep becoming customers of certain ones. I do also want to say that yes church members in the western United States seem particularly susceptible to MLM’s but having lived in a few different countries I don’t see the same thing happening to those members outside this area even though the church has the same structure world wide… so I think local culture also has an influence? 🤔
She’s far more polite than I would’ve been. But Mormons and JWs stopped knocking on my queer-ass door even before the pandemic. I have no tolerance for homophobia/transphobia. (If anyone’s interested, I’d highly recommend 8: The Mormon Proposition, which goes into the history of the ‘church’ and their anti-LGBTQ+ stances and policies, or Latter Days, a gay romantic drama about a Mormon missionary who loses everything when he comes out as gay.)
That’s so interesting, because I came into Catholicism because it’s the only thing that made theological sense to me. I definitely disagree with Mormon theology, but I have such a soft spot for missionaries. In one of our old neighborhoods, they came around all the time and they were just the sweetest people. One time my husband saw them at the grocery store loading their cart with beans and he asked them why. When we found out what their grocery stipend was, we were shocked. So I told them to come over every Wednesday and I would feed them. I made it clear I thought their theology was wacky but I wouldn’t let them go hungry and they just laughed and accepted. I honestly enjoyed having them over and having respectful debates with them. I still keep in touch with some of them. Nicest kids I ever met!
Sadly it will stay so unless the LDS moves away from being a high control group. Growing up in such an enviroment primes you to fall for other high control groups sadly
I'm sorry, the idea of someone seeing a fat person looking out at the water over a bridge railing and assuming that the fat person wants to kill themselves is so freaking funny to me. What an absolutely ridiculous conclusion to come to. You couldn't write satire this good
Russian people are very nice overall but they’re brutal when it comes to talking about other people’s bodies. Like I get honesty is one thing but that’s got nothing to do with bringing up those topics without anyone asking them to.
In Eastern Europe and Asia anything that isn't super skinny is considered fat on average, and it's not even for health concerns as much as it is for vain, shallow reasons. Flashy materialism along with that is also common.
@@AA-iy4gm Oh that's funny. Idk if you are Eastern European, but I'm Polish (here we can argue "is Poland Eastern or Central European?") and the notion that everyone that's not super skinny is suddenly considered fat, regardless of their health complications and wellbeing. Like that sort of thinking happens, but mostly stops once you're out of high school. Afterwards you will stumble onto it in the same situations as in every other country: dating market, comments from elders and such. Like come on, our societies might tend to be culturally conservative (for better or for worse, you decide), but we're not some cultural "other".
@@MothyaveI just love how many eastern European countries debate whether they actually are eastern European while central European countries would never consider them central. It's quite snobby and absolutely ridiculous how we try to establish hirarchies even within the EU. (Source: romenian ancestry, lived in German speaking countries all my life, best friends being slovenian and bosnian, both reporting the same efforts to 'market' their country as central)
@@lv834 Yeah, it is quite weird isn't it? On one side, yes we are in the Eastern part of Europe. On another, being called Eastern European feels like being slapped in the face with a reminder of the Soviet occupation.
I find it completely baffling when people say they can't get a person out of their house. Why is everyone so concerned about being rude when these people are the ones being rude. You are not being rude you are setting boundaries. If they do not leave immediately upon being asked CALL.THE.POLICE.
For the LDS story it's funny that despite all the many many many similarities between the church and MLMs even the church understands not to saturate a market by assigning missionaries specific territory XD
I think it’s assumed that LDS missionaries will be invited to lunch and dinner by people in the community, so they shouldn’t need a lot of money for groceries. $150 per month isn’t much for food, hygiene, and household expenses. 😢
I truly pity them, I haven't encountered missionaries at this point but if I do I'm gonna make sure to offer food, a phonecall or email while making it absolutely clear I'm not interested in their church so they don't get their hopes up
These stories are often filled with such infuriating behavior, but before I get too mad, Zeke's little "prrrrrreow?" makes me giggle. Thank you both for your work on these!
Hearing the LDS story reminded me of a church I attended as a child. It was Baptist, though. The pastor for the Sunday school did his form of "MLM" by offering us candy if we brought our friends in, and each friend was worth one piece of candy, a candy bar if that friend started coming back weekly, he even said that the church bus could pick them up if transportation was an issue. I was probably six at the time, but I can remember wanting that candy, because my family was poor, and of course candy was a rare treat for us, sadly only one of my friends came for one class. It's funny how hearing something can provoke a memory.
Sunday school pastors sure love bribing kids with candy lmao we'd get candy for memorizing bible verses every week... some of them are still engrained in my head because of that lol
As someone who grew up LDS (I am not anymore) I can tell you that it isn't uncommon for many church members to be part of an MLM. As a child I had been taken along to many MLM parties, including Amway, Tupperware, Avon, Mary Kay and probably more but I don't know for sure. I know my mom had bought stuff from Avon and my friends mom even sold Avon (They weren't LDS though). It is crazy how many people from the church did buy and sell MLM products.
I used to be a debt collector at a financing company that mostly financed Kirby vacuums. Being reminded of those ridiculous financing terms gave me chills!! I remember very specifically a three way phone conversation with a woman who's mom got roped into financing a $3k vacuum, and she said "you paid more for this vacuum than you did your car."
I'm Dutch, and I've barely ever encountered MLMs in my country, and I'm starting to understand why. My culture is often criticized for being extremely direct. But a side effect of that is that people have absolutely no problem saying NO. And being told no is not taken as an insult here. Al these people talking about how to find ways to gently say no or get rid of guilt tripping sales people or missionaries is both baffling and highly amusing to me. I actually once stumbled upon an LDS video on TH-cam about how to approach the Dutch for missionaries, and I found it fascinating. But it also cracked me up. For example, it explained why "How are you doing?" is not a greeting here, but a (somewhat intimate) question that people only use with aquaintaces,friends, and loved ones. So when you use it on the streets, people give you a suspicious look and get the heck away from you. It would kind of be like if a random person asked you a specific question about your health on the street. Like 'why is this stranger being creepily familiar with me?'. So all these sales tactics that were carefully curated by US corporates don't work here. Not that the Dutch are immune to sales and religion of course, but you need seriously different approaches in different countries and cultures.
I doubt it’s about Dutch being direct- it’s more about the Dutch govt not letting capitalism & money take priority over its people. My guess is these business are illegal to operate in Netherlands. The US says pyramid schemes are illegal but allow MLM as they are different. They are legal as MLMs ‘sell’ a product
@@KwazyKupkakes I'm pretty sure I've seen at least Tupperware and Doterra around in the Netherlands. But there may be some restrictions on those companies operations here. I don't know.
I never knew that about the Dutch it's really interesting! I'm Australian so we all say "How are you doing/How's it going" to strangers. What would a Dutch person say as an alternative? Would they just say hello to a stranger or do they not speak to then at all when passing?
I concur with the true crime/mlm thing, I like both! For me it's the psychology behind it: how does someone end up committing a crime, how does someone get sucked into an mlm...
Story 4 really did help me realize why I like your videos so much, I am definitely one of those who listen while I work but the problem is I have an audio processing disorder (APD) which makes listening to things really difficult though I have good hearing. So usually I need subtitles on to know what half of the words being said are. So while I agree every time people said your voice is really soothing I thought there was more to it and it is because you’re easy to listen too. It really does make a huge difference for people like me and I wanna thank you for that even if it’s not intentional lol
As a (mostly) active LDS member, I am 100% on board with the fact that the mission system is both dangerous and broken. It's high pressure and so, so easy to turn into a terrible environment for anyone's mental health. The comparison to mlm honestly just makes me more angry that they still haven't fixed the system.
I'm an actve member of the LDS church. My husband and I have been pitched Amway and Primerica. We politely declined! The church discourages members from using our church directories for business or political purposes.
Oh my gosh, yes. I’ve not had this happen for awhile, but over 15 years ago people were using church directories to sell insurance, makeup, clothing, homemaking products, etc.
Yeah I think part of it is also LDS probably have a higher ratio of stay at home moms who are already MLM targets. I did know the church has tried to start warning people, but from the outside the crossover is uncanny.
I found that highly ridiculous and reaching. The goals of our church and of MLMs are entirely different. Whereas we (including this missionary) are entirely there for serving your fellow man, MLMs are all about self, status and wealth. Completely opposite. Do both involve building connections with people, yes they do, but the similarities end there.
I’d agree as an active member of the church, yes, MLM’s highly infiltrate because we all want to be kind and trust our fellow church members. Two things I don’t trust with other people as a member of the church: my kids and my money. Too many people have taken advantage of the kindness of others. I’d also note this isn’t synonymous with the LadS Church only, MLM’s have a way of preying on the religious, because we can trust a friend of our church friend. No is a full sentence and I use it any time a MLM pitch is coming my way.
RE: LDS missionary budget, they are supposed to have dinner with a member of the church every day of the week, which would reduce grocery budget. Just additional info. 😊
that was my story!! we were fed by members but I had severe food restrictions and many of them couldn’t afford to feed me within my guidelines and gluten free/dairy free food is so much more expensive
That depends on the area they're serving in. My brother served his mission in the Dominican Republic around 2015-2017. They were actually not ALLOWED to eat with the members except on holidays like Christmas because the people there could not afford to feed them in most cases. I have no idea what his budget was, but I do know that for most of his mission they actually had hired maids for the missionary apartments who were responsible for cooking for the missionaries. (Near the end of the mission, they no longer had maids.)
i’m glad you read the LDS one. i personally have concerns about the church given their connection to not only MLMs, but the consistent violent crimes against women and children. i don’t agree with religions that follow such a strict path and control people’s lives so much. i think free thinking is the most important thing we have as people here on earth, and groups that try to take that away just ring alarm bells in my head. i think the LDS community needs to acknowledge, while people shouldn’t hate on them, they need to recognize the connection between their religious group and cult like structures/ MLMS / violent and sexual crimes. because the connection is very concerning! but thank you for shedding light on the situation and being respectful! love your videos Hannah!!❤
I love your videos but if i can make one small suggestion: it would help a lot if you named the chapters in your timestamp something more descriptive cause sometimes i want to search for a specific story 🙏 thanks for your work Hannah!
You’re taught to doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith was a powerful line to hear. This one had some rly important stories, as horrific as they were to hear!!
It sounds like he was clear with her that he did not want to keep a special needs pregnancy and she had a choice whether or not to keep it. Which should be every womens right, but with that right comes full responsibility for the outcome. Forcing someone to parent a special needs child is a recipe for disaster. It's better for all involved that he left.
@@Elizabeth-n3v2uI agree with you on that if your choices are not compatible in a topic is important as this breaking up is the way to go. But, and I understand we’re getting a one sided and incomplete story here, the OP’s sentiment comes from the ex’s abandonment of the existing children as well, that’s the story implies, or at least that’s what I took from the wording.
@@Elizabeth-n3v2uit takes two to tango: shouldn't he have considered when he decided to father a child that there's a possibility that it won't all be roses? Why should he do the deed and then decide to skip when the consequences aren't exactly what he wants?
Ah yes, I tell people about the BITE model when I talk about missions and the only reason I realized it fell right into model was because your episode about that book selling MLM. After that I got super uncomfortable with all the MLM horror stories because they sounded a lot like my mission. I’ll add that when I served my mission in the early 2010s, 150 a month was enough for me but it was because we were in N. Florida, and we had a lot of support from the local congregations where we always had dinner with members. I believe the limited funds is partly to encourage missionaries to get into member’s homes so that they’re always thinking about missionaries, and to find people for the missionaries to teach. It also felt a little bit like surveillance. Members of the church watch the missionaries very closely, and have high expectations of us. Like one time the bishop of one our wards told us we needed to smile more, and a few days later our mission president told us that he heard from members of our congregation that we didn’t smile enough so we needed to fix that. @_@
Wow. The smiling thing is so icky. I am glad you didn't have to go hungry on your mission. My husband and I always fed the missionaries as often as we could as well as bought groceries for them when we did a Costco run.
I bet the Kirby rep wanted her husband there so that she wouldn't say, "I would have to talk to my husband first." I am sure that is why they probably told them that.
Why on earth would they take my vacuum cleaner with them? Isn’t this STEALING?!?! Never heard of such thing…If someone takes my vacuum cleaner and then I have to drive 60 miles to get it back, I’ll change them fuel and waste of time.
Some kind of sell are "Buy a new one, and we will take your old one with us" Think like fridge, or washing machine, or car. There is probably some kind of clause like that in the sell contract
I think another interesting aspect of the LDS model is an understanding that you can't keep "recruiters" long term because they'll start questioning too much. If MLMs adopt a similar structure, it would be interesting and horrifying.
Utah is the global hub for MLMs. The state has intentional regulation loopholes that makes it easy to operate a company in ways that would be illegal in most other states.
Gosh, my heart dropped when she mentioned the elevator part. 😢 Even I felt hurt and angry, even though it's not even me, but then realized I'm not surprised.
Adding some thoughts as another LDS member, but thank you so much Hannah for being polite! Too often, I hear people who don't agree with my religion that try to break it down and rip it to pieces. While I can tell you don't necessarily agree with the church, you did your best to remain impartial, and that means a lot 💕 I'll also mention that, yes, in the past especially, there had been a lot of push to not question the gospel and just try harder. However the church has had a greater push on what we call "personal revelation," which is all about finding answers for yourself. If there's something about church history you struggle with, dive into it and find out for yourself what you think. That's been a big push in recent years, and I like to see how that has encouraged us as members to think for ourselves and gain our own opinions on all sides of the gospel. Thank you again for your kindness! I was nervous when I saw the thumbnail, but I'm so relieved to see this didn't turn into a bashing session so all could enjoy!
Thank you for this comment. There's a lot of faith-bashing going on in the comments. The story was very anti-faith imo because it left out the whole revelation process.
Ex-mormon here. So the church encourages you to Google search church history and fact-check stuff now? Or is it just like... Pray about it? This was very discouraged against during my time (90's and 00's)
@@jelyfisherthis was my story!! I have severe PTSD and religious OCD because of my mission. I was known to be one of the most faithful missionaries in the mission and worked extremely hard. The revelation I received was that the way my mission president handled thing was extremely damaging and my very active and faithful family are still appalled all these years later by how I was mistreated. Personal revelation also reveals that the church isn’t for everyone and missions are especially difficult for many many people. Maybe if the story made you feel defensive then you should reflect on why.
@@clairedeluneonthemoonI couldn't finish your story because, whatever your faith was on your mission, I heard a lot of contempt and skepticism. I know my faith, and what you wrote hurts my heart, but it's not because I need to doubt what I know. It's because I'm sad you can't share the same experiences. I'm sorry you got hurt, and I hope you find healing. I won't be replying anymore.
I can't vouch for the actual content of the video because I haven't watched it yet, but if story 3 got you interested in diving deeper into the LDS and MLM connection, Jordan and McKay on youtube recently put out a video discussing it. Could be a good follow-up piece for people seeking more information.
I've been watching you since you were at around 30k subs. I'm so happy that you are basically at 150k!!! I just knew your channel would blow up with all the juicy content being put out at such a consistent pace. 🎉
Lol, grew up LDS and thought it was a cult at eight years old. I remember my father inviting missionaries in because they were often hungry, tired, dehydrated, and some were kind of out of it from walking all day. I was actually friends (in the way a 20 year old can be with a 14 year old) with a missionary and used to sneak her my treats from Sunday school because I felt really bad for her. She visited us pretty frequently because my father always welcomed missionaries and probably because my family never saw anyone go hungry (besides me, I guess)
As an Ex-Mormon, I’m so glad you shared this story. People need to be informed what that church is actually like and what, at the corporate (top) level, it actually stands for. It can suck for the messenger, but those feathers need to be ruffled. Thank you for including it!
One of the lessons from these stories is Stick Up For Yourself! These huns are counting on their marks’ politeness even though their own behavior is aggressive, rude, and highly inappropriate. The woman on the bridge is a great model for all of us. Throw it back at them. (The Kirby reps in your house, esp!)
my cousins grandpa started a construction job at a mormon-owned company when he was younger. he wasn’t mormon. when he got his first paycheck, they had taken it upon themselves to deduct 10% for tithes to the LDS church. his wife stormed down there SO FAST to make them give him his money.
As a very non-traditional LDS person, it’s insane how prevalent MLMs are in the church community. I went back to church for the first time in months and the first talk was introduced by the girl giving her life story and talking about how she got involved with a great ppportunity this last year, starting her own business with Mary Kay. She’s not even 20 yet.
Separate note, from the first story- if you aren’t mentally ready to possibly have a disabled child with heavy medical needs, don’t have kids. How dare the ex husband leave her because of the pregnancy! He has the “luxury” of being able to abandon his own family because he had to take up more responsibility for his newborn while she has additional responsibilities without the support of a loving partner. That was so disturbing and so was the hun interaction. When Hannah read the “when the pregnancy fails” part, I gasped so loud my dog ran over to me from the other room. I seriously hope her and her kiddos are doing so much better now and I wish her all the best.
I would amend this to: don’t agree to have kids with someone before knowing one of you would be willing to keep the child when the other wouldn’t. Like, have that conversation and get on the same page. As long as you both agree what to do in that situation, it’s not an issue. Same principle for if you want kids at all or not.
I literally binged all the mlm horror Stories of you in like two weeks. Fell in love with your channel! Came for the influencer insanity (thank you algorithm), stayed for the mlm content 🤭😍
I've been bingeing your MLM Horror Stories videos. And recently I wanted to talk to a friend who I haven't spoken to in months because I want to work on my friendships. While composing my message, I just got the ick with myself because it sounds like I'm gonna recruit her for an MLM! "When are you available for coffee?" 🤣🤣🤣 Adult friendships are hard
Lmao I remember some random guy vacuuming my bed when I was a kid. We had soo many door to door salespeople come to our house. Anything from meat to vacuums to encyclopedias. So glad that isn’t a huge thing anymore.
Ex-mormon here! Thankfully I never got too deep into the MLMs. I did get pitched a few times, but thankfully while growing up I never dealt with an MLM.
Mad respect to you for still reading that story about the LDS church despite being friends with some Mormons. It's important that the story gets out there.
Just wanted to come in and say Hi! Love the videos! I also love the new influencer videos and started sharing those videos to my daughter's as extra media literacy- especially since I don't have tik tok and didn't realize how ad driven it has become! Thanks for all you do!
I loved this video. So much going on with LDS and a Hun asking a child to steal to help her business. To what length individual will go to enhance their belief systems - whatever it takes to recruit or make money is okay, even when it violates norms, laws, and moral traditions.
I don't listen to true crime channels because I can't find any that don't report on murder cases...and I can't support people making money off of some random person's death that they just found on the Internet....gives me the biggest ick....
The only “true crime” I consume is scams/frauds. For example, the missing crypto queen podcast. Or on TH-cam, coffeezilla. Usually in those the victims want and are able to collaborate. The ones about murders don’t interest me and are an ethical minefield.
Try scambuster channels as well. Coffeezilla and Voidzilla (same person, different formats), Slidebean's Company Forensics videos and James Jani are my faves.
The irony of me watching this after Fundie Fridays just did serveral deep dives on Christian misson organizations, not the LDS, but stilll the connections are absolutely insane 😭
I sold Tupperware 18 years ago. It sort of sold itself, but I didn’t do it more than a couple years. Mostly because I can’t do the aggressive sales approach. The woman who was my director wasn’t “LDS” but she did use her church to start her business. Probably because you start with who you spend the most time with, family, friends, community. 🙂
We had a very similar Kirby experience- they would not do the presentation without us both present- myself and spouse. We decided not to purchase and had to run the guy out and he tried to take our vacuum with him when he left!
You are a true class act, Hannah. Much respect for how you handle these stories and how you draw clear lines with what you are comfortable discussing. Keep the great content coming!
I’m so sad, I’ve been subscribed since 15k and just saw I’d been unsubscribed in the last couple days!? I’m hoping this didn’t happen for a bunch of us, I’ve been so happy for you and your success lately🥰❤️ so proud of you!💓
I was watching a video from a non-MLM creator. He showed a meme where a person meets up with an old friend from 10 years ago, hidden behind the friend's back is a MLM pyramid scheme. People all around the World are waking up to the tactics of the MLM huns.
I got super nervous about this one with the LDS tag on it, because I LOVE your content and I am an active and believing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and sometimes anti MLM gets anti LDS really fast. Anyway, thank you for your respectful handling of the submission. Yeah, there are obvious similarities and a very unfortunate saturation of MLMs in Utah. MLMs totally prey on these poor women who were raised to think they HAVE to stay home with their herd of children, and in the current economy the "work from home bUsIneSS OppOrTUnITiEs" look like a great idea. Thankfully, my parents raised me with a good head on my shoulders and I know better. My faith is my own, and I'm not a blind follower - I can separate my personal faith and beliefs from "Church Culture" (which especially sucks along the Wasatch Front through Utah and Idaho). Thank you for speaking kindly about your LDS loved ones and being gentle with your comments. The pipeline from LDS to MLM is definitely there, but it's pretty nuanced and involves a lot of unfortunate cultural practices that are not actually church doctrine. I promise not all of us "Church Members" are pyramid nut jobs!
I grew up LDS and my mom was a customer for many, many, many MLMs. She brought me and my sister along to several product ”parties” as kids and I always enjoyed them. I think she trusted them more because she was being sold stuff from her friends and fellow believers. It also means when I started looking into selling, no one batted an eye. Thank god I’m shy because it helped me not last long lol. I wish I had gotten a better education on these issues much earlier in life, though, as it would have saved me so much emotional turmoil, my reputation, and of course, money!
I'm also training my english as foreign language with your videos. I'm interested in the subject and also appreciate your vibes and clear pronunciation 😊
I got to the same church, but I am what you call a member only on Sundays, and before I would have listened to this story, I always thought that I wouldn't like my kids to serve a mission.
I’d like to add another perspective of the LDS mission. I served a mission under these rigorous guidelines. I would say that my experience was hard, but transformative in a way that helps me be a better part of society at large. I didn’t feel that middle aged men deemed me worthy, I feel that I decided of my own volition to do it and live in a way that would prepare me to take on a large religious responsibility with no external pressure (I submitted the paperwork in secret while living abroad far from family and friends). It is not a cult practice because those who do not choose to serve are no less worthy than other members and they have no smaller value in the church community. The way it’s organized is tough, and the reason it’s not longer is not so that “recruiters won’t see what’s really going on or ask questions” but rather because it’s unreasonable for anyone to dedicate more of their life to just one thing. I would compare it more to nuns and monks, who live regimented strict lives, but we only do it for a short time and then move on. Many people do similar things with meditation retreats, yoga retreats, etc. that may be shorter or longer. It’s just one way to dedicate your life to a Higher Power and *try* to do good in the world. As far as “doubt your doubts” the sentence ends with “before you doubt your faith” NOT “before you doubt the church or the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith or Jesus”. I think any religion that would be considered far from being a cult would agree! Look to faith to work out your questions, and never be afraid to ask questions. I have doubts all the time, and I sit with them, explore them, talk about them, find information anywhere I want…there’s no control. And should I choose to leave, I would still be loved and embraced by my family. I am not here to convince anyone to join haha but this perspective is not accurate to the actual intentions of LDS missions. Choose to believe me or call me crazy, just felt that it was worth putting in that perspective. Peace and love
I'm glad to see your comment here, it helps because I always get so anxious whenever non-members or ex-members talk about the LDS church, so I'm glad for something to balance the perspective out.
I think of "being worthy," like having done all that is required to be ready to participate in _______, having met the prerequisites for ______. It has nothing to do with the value of a person. In the New Testament, worthy is translated from the Greek word 'hikanos' which means: - Definition: (a) considerable, sufficient, of number, quantity, time, (b) of persons: sufficiently strong (good, etc.), worthy, suitable, with various constructions, (c) many, much. - Origin: From hiko (hikano or hikneomai, akin to heko) (to arrive); competent (as if coming in season), i.e. Ample (in amount) or fit (in character).
Congratulations on your silver play button. Also, congratulations on smashing that by 50% near weeks later. So proud of you been here since before 50k.
My mom's side of the family aren't active, but technically we've all been baptized into, "The Church." I'm, atheist, but when, missionaries come to the door, I say, "we're already mormon, bye bye!"
Indeed, just like how pretty much everyone who deconvents from a religion is accused of "never being a TRUE [insert label]" - because they cannot possibly have had legitimate issues with the belief system
When I was younger, a guy, or maybe two knocked on our door to promote a vacuum. They said, "This vacuum is way better than your vacuum." My mom not knowing much English and loving cleaning, was obviously intrigued. I don't know if this was Kirby, but hearing that this happened in my home state, makes me think that this was maybe Kirby. My mom had to call my dad to confirm with him about a few details. This happened when I was 7, so some details are forgotten. The guy came in to clean our carpet, and he was looking at our vacuum. He showed us "scientific evidence" of why our vacuum was terrible and why we needed an extra powerful vacuum. Someone might know this vacuum, but I remember that you had to make the rug wet with a special spraying solution. Then you wait 30 minutes for the rug to dry. After that, you put in these pads, and I think you add water to the vacuum. Then you vacuum with this heavy vacuum. Then at the end, you take out the pads and look at the dirt that was pulled from your rug. My mom said no because, with a huge family, no one has the time to wait 30 minutes to vacuum a rug. Plus this vacuum was heavy, so it wasn't ideal for a pregnant woman. It was also really expensive, and we already had two good working vacuums. Luckily, after an hour of showing his product, the guy said, "It's okay if you don't want to buy it, and I see that the discount is not changing your opinion, but if you change your mind here's my business card." I was happy we didn't get the vacuum, because it would of made vacuuming a very hard chore.
Wow… I grew up with Elders and Sisters in my house. I lived in a small town and I would see them walking around all day long. We used to have them over for dinner and I can remember hearing stories just like what you’re describing. I heard stories of their debit cards getting declined at the store because the church had taken money out of their accounts. My heart broke for them, which is why my mom always had them over for dinner. Sisters had men answer the door naked, or feeling pressured to go into potentially dangerous situations.
I am an ex Mormon, that grow up in Utah, and know dozens of people in MLMs. I even worked for cooperate at one. My experience was not this girls, though appreciate her insights. Very few MLM members I know served a mission. Mostly, they were stay at home moms, looking to make a side income and/or hobby and/or friends. Utah has very favorable laws for MLM cooperations, and my belief, is that simply due to proximity, the Utahans are targeted. The missions are not as restrictive these days, elders/sisters can frequently and almost daily communicate with family at home. I do think the church’s structure and obsession with authority is off, but that isn’t the point of this comment, I just wanted to add another perspective as someone who 1) grew up in Utah 2) grew up Mormon 3) worked at and MLM and 4) knows many many in MLMs. I am anti MLM but love many in MLMs.
Found out today that my coworker was in an MLM. Not only that, but he was in multiple MLMs, and he actually said the words to me "Amway isn't a scam, and not all MLMs are scams." So he understands that MLMs CAN be scams, but drank enough of the kool-aid to believe that none of the MLMs he was in could have been scams. He's by no means an intelligent person, but then again intelligent people fall for MLMs all the time.
Your (awesome) videos led me to look up Kirby...who was (until recently) owned by Berkshire Hathaway...and that info sent me to a page about the "Direct Selling Association"...and oh dear Lord, the ganglia of these MLMs run so very deep. 😱
Working nights Monday is my day off and it always starts with a nice cup of coffee and these stories. Been subbed since your Posh days and it's amazing to see the steady growth. Congrats Hannah, you deserve it!
Anytime I hear stories about mormons I think of the one time two members showed up to my home and I answered the door in a BLUE DINOSAUR onsie. They immediately laughed so hard, I mentioned I'm a nightshift worker and they said sorry for waking me and left.
Nice. I answered the door wearing a rainbow color shirt and they fled, no one's been back since. Shirt had absolutely nothing to do with queer people (though I am queer), but migraine, it was just colorful because color is fun.
@@waffles3629gonna use this if they come knocking! 😆
The Kirby rep requiring the husband to be home is probably a sales tactic. "I have to check with my spouse" is a common soft no. If you have both decision makers are present, you can't use the absent spouse as an excuse to put the sales rep off.
My coworkers wife tried that while he was at work. The rep made her call him at work. 🤦♀️
It's sadly a lot more than that. In my area, at least, It has to do with who they target, and having them be able to qualify for the credit used to buy the vacuum. It was a way for them to be able to deny claims they pressured someone into signing loan papers if it went to court/collections. They also used it as a way to avoid canceling contracts. If 2 people signed the contract to get the vacuum, 2 people have to sign to cancel.
Coming here to say this! I just attended a timeshare pitch where they required if you had a spouse/live-in partner, you had to bring them & while they didn't say so, it was obviously bc they knew "I can't spend $20k without my partner's approval" would be a common response without it
A few years ago I had someone ask me the same question. It was a genuine question from this company because it was a significant $ amount expense and the person said that the company had been caught out where one person had agreed to the work but their partner said no. As a single person it never occurred to me that this could happen.
I had a window salesman at my door two weeks ago who was being really pushy while I stood there with headphones in my ears and raw chicken on one hand because he interrupted dinner. The guy seriously asked to talk to my husband. I told him I don't have one (I do, but wtf) and he said, "Good that makes it easier!" Said the quiet part out loud.
Aside from everything else in the story, the fact that this gal's husband left her in this situation is heartbreaking and infuriating.
My son's father abandoned us after finding out that he would be born with hydrocephalus and possible spinal bifida. He was the one who wanted kids and even got me pregnant without my consent. I didn't know about the medical issues until much later in the pregnancy unfortunately. It's sad but men do this all the time. They don't want to have to help out more
@@Aashka_The_Mystic I'm so sorry you went through that.
Yes, that is so incredibly terrible. 💔
@@Aashka_The_MysticI’m so sorry. 💔
@@Aashka_The_Mystic I'm sorry you had to suffer from a selfish man. I hope your life situation has gotten better.
The first story makes me so angry. That Mary Kay lady is not just clueless, but evil. I would have just got up and left as soon as she said "When you lose the baby." OMG! 😮
I'm not a violent person, but that phrase might move me to violence.
One of those no words moments ! Just unreal !
I sat with my jaw on my chest for a good ten seconds! Worst hun ever
And saw the neonatal intensive care as a recruitment zone. Holy smokes
That Mary Kay rep is utterly DISGUSTING!!! How inhumane!
The Kirby story was mine! I'm so glad you liked it. It was surreal during the whole experience. I have two thoughts on why they wanted a couple. First, and this is very patriarchal, they figured the "man" of the household would be the decision maker on larger ticket items. Second, if they could sell us both, then it would be less likely we would return the item because the spouse was in agreement. In our case, it worked in their favor initially because I would have never bought it in the first place if my husband hadn't been so on board.
Thanks for sharing your story with us 🤗
I got suckered into a Kirby for a hot minute. I did use the three day recission period in Washington state to make them come and pick it up from my husband while I was at work so that I didn't have to face them again.
@Insatia206 they didn't give us that option. It was "you need to bring it to us". But I got to see the inner workings, and that has been the best help ever in seeing through all those types of sales tricks.
Thanks for sharing your story! My husband got suckered (fortunately, temporarily) by a pair of Kirby reps who visited while I was on a business trip. I came home to our Dirt Devil gone and a contract signed to buy a $2k Kirby, while we were still paying off student loans and a car largely on a single income. Oh, and in an APARTMENT with only 1 carpeted room to boot. In no way were we in need of, or budgeted for, a fancy vacuum cleaner. I cried, we argued, and ultimately husband got the purchase canceled and our Dirt Devil back.
We get a number of door-to-door calls selling services these days and while the Kirby experience left us wiser, ngl, we have had some of these salespeople wheedle into our homes (at least it was because we actually were in the market for the services this time).
Thanks again for sharing :)
Thanks for that great story!! Yes, totally agree with your points! Probably in the same way that Amway targets couples, they wanted both of you present so they can get both of you on the same page 😖
Jordn and McKay (mostly post-LDS channel) just did a story about LDS/MLM pipeline. They played a couple of your clips and gave you a lovely shout out. Something not mentioned in the story is that Utah is a very friendly state to MLM companies and there are quite a few headquartered there. Also, Utah's long time Senator Orrin Hatch was instrumental in the 1970s to keep vitamins/herbal remedies out of FDA regulation which I think helped the oil based MLMs gain popularity.
Was about to comment this! Highly recommend their video to anyone wanting to know more. One of my favorite quotes from that video was "mormon missionaries are used to selling something that nobody wants." 😂
Jason Chaffetz - five term rep of Utah's 3rd - used to work in PR at Nu Skin; subsequently, they were his campaign's largest donor
Don't forget about doTerra Field in Utah! 🥴
I bopped off to watch the Jordon and McKay video you referenced. It was excellent, a real deep dive into why LDS members are so into MLMs. Thanks for the reference. And the ending was the best part-their cat got right into the camera shot!
I was thinking of this exact video when she prefaced that story. That was a rly well done story & other anti mlm creators have discussed this but J&M def had the ability to do an inside look from having been in the church. They rly prey on that denomination & it’s so sad. If you’re already in one cult you’re at such a higher rate to be sucked into another.
Kirby salespeople= vampire: do not allow them to cross your threshold. 😂😂😂
Maybe getting garlic out will make them leave 😅
Yup I've thought about that before. If you invite them in, it's all over
we not here sell is scam lie language
I almost want to say to them “Get thee hence Satan!”
And they both suck 😂
Sounds like Kirby reps are kind of like inviting a vampire in....
😂
So if we chuck a few cloves of garlic their way, they'll flee into the shadows from whence they came? I mean, nothing else gets them to leave, so it's worth a try.
😂😂😂
@@papermintairplane I suppose "I don't need a vacuum cleaner, my housekeeper brings her own." should work.
😂 I say this same thing about all door to door sales people! "Don't invite them in, they can't get you if you don't invite them in!" 🤣
re kurby (kirby?) reps: if they enter your home WITHOUT permission, it is trespass. if they enter with permission but you later revoke that permission by asking/telling them to leave, it IS trespass. trespass is a CRIME. call the police.
Absolutely.
I never understood how ppl allow these sales ppl stay in their home for hours basically holding them hostage.
This happened when my sis was shopping for windows.
They were there for over SIX HOURS!!!! They wouldn’t leave!
I asked her WHY WOULD YOU ALLOW THIS????
If I was subjected to this, I would absolutely threaten calling the police if they didn’t leave when I needed them to.
I truly don’t get why it’s so hard to be stern and firm with ppl especially pushy sales ppl who have no respect for your time.
"defiant trespass". ive had to call police to my store after asking someone to leave and they wouldnt. thats all you need to say. youre completely correct!
It's surprising to me that they still use this tactic considering that there are states which allow you to legally take lethal action if someone unwanted is on your property. You can legally be shot for just knocking on the wrong door these days.
@@WriteMeASong7I don’t understand it either. I think people are more scared of coming off rude to a complete stranger who has crossed boundaries than being uncomfortable. Personally, I let go of the fear of seeming rude years ago especially in my OWN home!
Manif someone tried to force themselves into my home and then refuse to leave the cops would be called and they can deal with them. They to sell the police your vacuum lol 😅😅
I am LDS too and served a mission and I completely agree and went through all of the same stuff when I served back in 2014 and ended up going home early because the extremely controlled environment made me mentally ill and caused me to have severe PTSD that after 10 years I am still fighting to get myself under control. The mission even has a designated doctor that you are only able to see for everything that they deem an issue and that man had the nerve to call me fat and make me feel horrible about myself every chance he got that even my companions started making fun of me and making work out even harder and made comments if I ate “too much” that I became anorexic. I now permanent damage to my immune system and body that I cannot get back or reverse. I tell all the new missionaries I talk with to this day about to question the model of the system. I am an active member of the church still but I make sure that everyone hears my story in the church because if this set up is hidden then others will end up like me or worse.
I’m so sorry that happened to you! I generally had a good experience on my mission in Europe, but I’ve heard stories from roommates and friends about bad experiences and mental health crises that I think are so important for people to hear and tell. Some of them I heard before serving my own mission, and I think that helped me. So, I’m glad to hear that you are vocal about your own experience. I hope you are doing well and I wish you the best!
It really a roulette. Same with Pentecostals who go on missions to build wells and clean up from disasters. You could get a good assignment or a bad one. But I do believe if the bad ones, everyone spoke out about them and members came together to fight for change in those areas there would be less bad ones. @@fantasymagic97
Love this!! As an active member myself I think it's so so so important for ppl to hear your story
Former member, I'm so sorry you went through that💚 I hope you find peace. I found a lot of solace in listening to Mormon Stories Podcast (I loved the church so losing what felt like home was a void) and hearing stories like yours. The members aren't bad (for the most part), the company that is the church is.
(For reason I left...caught a "pluto" that was "training his daughter's how to please a husband" youngest was single digit age. When the bishop called to tell me he was off life support and passed I asked what the church would do for his family and other victims, he responded "he didn't really do anything wrong, the children should use that to ponder why Heavenly Father wanted them to do that"... complete blame on the *children* and *God*. Went on to explain his victims not members, there was quite a few, should be pushed for baptism so they can understand God's love is why the perv did that. Absolute disgust. The SP gave similar answer. This was in the PNW just like 4yrs or so ago. Have asked to be excommunicated and told "no need, you have no sin in it". Please stay safe and vigilant. And remember you can still believe in God's amazing love, the morals we were taught from WOW/FHE/YW values ect and not pay a fee to protect those that harm His most pure.)
@@kristanricketts5028 thank you so much. I have been doing therapy for 10 years now that I make sure not to have an LDS therapist so I have a neutral opinion and how to work through all of my stuff. I am on tons of medication that I’ve been told by members and that if I believed more that I wouldn’t need them and let’s just say I lost my crap on them for that. I will admit I stood infront of the my whole home stake presidency and told them that the gospel is true but the people including the leadership are what make the church the problem
My elementary school did book fairs. They used to take away one of your recesses a day if you didn't purchase at least one thing. I guess maybe they were getting kickbacks. I didn't want to repeat the year before when I missed recesses, so I stole $20 from my aunt. (She still holds it against me to this day almost 30 years later) to buy a pencil so I wouldn't get in trouble. When I came clean my mom marched down to the school and screamed at the principle and threatened to go to the school board or paper or something. Suddenly, there was no punishment for not purchasing from the book fair nor a punishment if you failed to sell something from the Christmas catalogue from that weird company that made kids do door to door sales each year.
Edit: And yes, after getting the pencil I put the change back in my aunt's drawer.
I’m so sorry! My husband is an elementary school media specialist, and he would never pressure any kid to buy.
He would also raise Cain if the administration or county tried to do that.
Kids need recess, and kids should never be required to buy from the school.
@@MaidMirawyn I'm sure so much has changed since the early 90s when I was a kid, I think people our age have really made big changes in child focused fields
I loved the Scholastic book fairs at school when I was a kid. This was in the late 80s though and there was definitely no penalty for not buying anything. But I also didn't go to a school that got "recess" either. We had a 20 or 25 minute PE class but that was it. And it wouldn't have worked there at the schools I went to, at least 75-80% of students easily qualified for free or reduced lunches. Wasn't a lot of extra money flying around for the book fair.
I’m so glad you read this letter about the LDS mission. I recently found out that my coworker’s missionary son was eating one meal a day because they didn’t have enough money for food. The members in the (very affluent ) area were supposed to feed the missionaries dinner every night, but it wasn’t happening. He was experiencing symptoms of malnutrition 😱. We sent him gift cards to use for groceries because his family can’t afford to help much (they are already paying about $550/month for his mission). Crazy!
It's incredibly sad how a church that has over 200 billion dollars, asks their young people to pay $500 a month to be their sales people and also lets them go hungry.
I grew up LDS and was a member my whole life until 2022. 49 years. My husband and fed the missionaries as often as we could and when we became more financially stable, we often bought them groceries.
I am so sorry your friend's son was going through that. When my nephew served his mission in 2017-2019, they were rarely fed by the members. We sent him gift cards for food all the time.
It infuriates me that missionaries go hungry when they're PAYING to be there, and the church has at least $100 billion dollars just stashed away in stock portfolios. But I think the starvation is purposeful--lots of high-demand religions limit food. It affects cognitive function, and makes people easier to control. They're too hungry to think critically about how badly they're being treated.
@@angelofdusk13 That is an excellent point.
I've heard so many similar stories about missionaries. Usually, it's because they're in areas that are too food insecure to give food to the missionaries and it's upsetting to hear that it happens in other areas as well. They also don't have time to cook for themselves so it's impossible for them to eat afforably and nutritiously.
Why the church’s not paying them? Genuinely asking, as from outside mission work doesn’t seem optional and something that is in purview of the church why they’re not responsible of the welfare of the missionaries?
Katja, I hope you see this - 1) your English is impeccable; and, you are an exceptionally talented writer!
2) the way you've described your peace in body image, and view of health vs weight, is really wonderful. I can't tell you how much I appreciated hearing what you said, and I have so much respect and admiration for your wisdom on this subject.
It cannot be emphasized enough, especially to women: weight is NOT automatically equivalent to health;
but, much more importantly, neither weight nor health determine our dignity and the intrinsic worth/value of human life!
An adult in an mlm convincing a 10 year old to steal is absolutely insane. I cannot.
Seriously! And while instilling some fabricated insecurities as well! “The other kids are going to make fun of you.” Gross, hun lady. Super gross.
They have no moral values
Recently LDS mission rules were changed so that missionaries can call home more often; my younger brother got to call my mom every week of his mission from 2020-2022.
But honestly, at least LDS missions are only supposed to be 18-24 months and then you go back to living regular life. In contrast, MLMs try to basically keep you until you either drop out without any money left or rise through the ranks. Business practices and religious practices should not mix and I hate hate HATE that Utah and the LDS church, both things I love and that are important to me, are also MLM breeding grounds. Somehow I have only been given an MLM business pitch a couple times in my life despite growing up LDS, but it makes me so sad that many other LDS people are not so fortunate and have even fallen for them.
Really, I grew up in the LDS church, I was taught in my family of all LDS members to ask questions and seek answers instead of just blindly following, and I am just baffled that it seems other members don't do that enough.
Signed a member of the LDS church that is also anti-MLM
the mission itself might only be 18-24 months but they are super traumatizing and so highly controlled. that was the point of the story. it doesn’t matter how long you’re there bc it’s damaging from day 1
@@clairedeluneonthemoon I know people that found them traumatizing but I also know people (including all four of my brothers) that found them worth the time they put into the mission. Some people also do get sent on missions that really shouldn't have been sent despite the vetting process, and some even get sent home early. It isn't as clear cut as the person writing that email made it out to be.
Thank you amber dawn for this comment. I could have written it myself. Ninja attack, I am so sorry this was so traumatizing for you. I didn’t serve a mission but I’ve met many people who also had traumatic experiences on their missions, and also many people who had incredibly positive experiences. I wish you peace and healing.
I had someone in a previous ward text me out of the blue to tell me the spirit had prompted her to share doterra with me. I'm not anti-mlm, but that text blew my mind. Even better, she's a distant cousin and felt the need to bring that up as well, despite the fact that we hardly interacted at church. 😂
Curious if you’ve read the CES letter?
I got into anti-mlm bc true crime got to be a bit too much some times but this still covers everyday crime just not (most of the time) in a physically violent way
I got into true crime as a way to feel safe. I remember Ted Bundy pretended to have a broken arm to get women to walk to his car. I know a lot of tips of what not to do, thanks to true crime. I feel like anti-MLM content gives me that sense of security as well. I know how to shut down MLM huns, thanks to videos like this.
You might enjoy the podcast Criminal. It's about true crime, but typically not violent true crime.
I’m a Latter Day Saint and It is sadly taboo to be anti mlm because of how prevalent they are. Ive been trying my best to talk to people behind the scenes and generally, the younger generation seems to know they’re a scam.
Is it taboo to be anti-MLM in the church, or is it taboo to be anti-mlm in the church culture of that area? I feel like the taboo-ness comes from the culture of the particular area more so than any actual church teachings/doctrine. I'm an active member in an area where we have a decent number, but I don't feel like we are encouraged to support or join MLMs here. I know a couple that have for one reason or another, but they seem more the exception than the rule where I am. I think we need to focus more on changing the culture. I say good on you for working behind the scenes in your area where MLMs are more prevalent, and I hope that it becomes less taboo the more people realize how much of a scam they are.
I do think that evangelical religions are more prone to prime people to join MLMs because the members of such religions are taught to share or "sell others" on their beliefs. Serving missions prime you to become sales people--even door-to-door sales people. You learn to accept rejection and loss and keep going. These skills translate well to an MLM job based on the model so I can see why there is a lot of overlap. These skills can be used for good as well as evil, and it can be hard to see the difference. I also think that there can be evil--or perhaps more commonly misguided--people in the church that help perpetuate behaviors and ideas that shouldn't be perpetuated. Unfortunately, we are all fallible.
@@loris6341 to answer your question, guess it really just depends but generally, I think it is the church culture in the area but also individuals that have legitimized and normalized the business model, even outside of lds filled areas like Utah or Idaho. My family that has been notoriously in mlms is entirely based out of Florida.
I wouldn’t say we are encouraged to support or join mlms here, but it’s hard to ignore their influence, especially since they’re legitimized. I go to school at byu Idaho and melaleuca HQ is in our backyard, always at career fairs, and their former employees have a strong presence at our school. That Is just one example but i guess what im trying to say is that while it isn’t supported or encouraged, it’s not given the scrutiny or discouragement that it deserves. I’ll be more than happy to elaborate and I also want to make it clear that I don’t disagree with anything you said.
@@loris6341 Amen! Cultural traditions vs Doctrine is a crucial distinction.
Edit: and for some people emotional experiences and spiritual experiences are the same, and I think that helps cultural/family traditions seem like spiritual truth.
You aren’t alone. I find that the highly educated, older LDS members think they’re gross too. It’s the youth that are targets.
@@E-magineMySurprise 100000000% I love the difference you drew between emotions and spirit, that is so important
Re: the Kirby story. I read a psychology book years ago which said that salespeople (not just Kirby ones) are generally taught to speak to a couple together. Apparently couples are easier to talk into things than if the person was on their own. Maybe because they can’t use the “I need to discuss this with my spouse first” excuse.
One of the first things I learned working high-end retail is that unless the couple is shopping together, you're unlikely to close a high-dollar sale until "I speak to my spouse first."
Thank you for being respectful toward the LDS church. I'm an active member who loved my mission but I'm also very anti mlm. It totally makes sense why so many members get roped into these schemes and I wish it wasn't so!
Yes, fellow member here, and I'm so grateful for the way she did her best to be respectful to the church and its members! It's hard to hear when others don't have a good experience in the gospel, but I'm glad that at the end of the day, Hannah was polite, even though you can tell she has her own reservations about it for herself 💕
Also an active member here and I grew up with anti MLM parents and am likewise anti MLM. So glad I had the upbringing I did. I loved my mission but i feel like the experience of my internal rights was different than most because my parents taught me to question. It was that exact kind of questioning that had led my own mom to the church when her Catholic teachers couldn’t answer theological questions or contradicted themselves... off point. I love this content and I’m seriously thinking of sharing it around with ladies I know who are stuck in MLM’s or keep becoming customers of certain ones. I do also want to say that yes church members in the western United States seem particularly susceptible to MLM’s but having lived in a few different countries I don’t see the same thing happening to those members outside this area even though the church has the same structure world wide… so I think local culture also has an influence? 🤔
She’s far more polite than I would’ve been.
But Mormons and JWs stopped knocking on my queer-ass door even before the pandemic. I have no tolerance for homophobia/transphobia.
(If anyone’s interested, I’d highly recommend 8: The Mormon Proposition, which goes into the history of the ‘church’ and their anti-LGBTQ+ stances and policies, or Latter Days, a gay romantic drama about a Mormon missionary who loses everything when he comes out as gay.)
That’s so interesting, because I came into Catholicism because it’s the only thing that made theological sense to me. I definitely disagree with Mormon theology, but I have such a soft spot for missionaries. In one of our old neighborhoods, they came around all the time and they were just the sweetest people. One time my husband saw them at the grocery store loading their cart with beans and he asked them why. When we found out what their grocery stipend was, we were shocked. So I told them to come over every Wednesday and I would feed them. I made it clear I thought their theology was wacky but I wouldn’t let them go hungry and they just laughed and accepted. I honestly enjoyed having them over and having respectful debates with them. I still keep in touch with some of them. Nicest kids I ever met!
Sadly it will stay so unless the LDS moves away from being a high control group. Growing up in such an enviroment primes you to fall for other high control groups sadly
I'm sorry, the idea of someone seeing a fat person looking out at the water over a bridge railing and assuming that the fat person wants to kill themselves is so freaking funny to me. What an absolutely ridiculous conclusion to come to. You couldn't write satire this good
Russian people are very nice overall but they’re brutal when it comes to talking about other people’s bodies. Like I get honesty is one thing but that’s got nothing to do with bringing up those topics without anyone asking them to.
In Eastern Europe and Asia anything that isn't super skinny is considered fat on average, and it's not even for health concerns as much as it is for vain, shallow reasons. Flashy materialism along with that is also common.
@@AA-iy4gm Oh that's funny. Idk if you are Eastern European, but I'm Polish (here we can argue "is Poland Eastern or Central European?") and the notion that everyone that's not super skinny is suddenly considered fat, regardless of their health complications and wellbeing. Like that sort of thinking happens, but mostly stops once you're out of high school. Afterwards you will stumble onto it in the same situations as in every other country: dating market, comments from elders and such. Like come on, our societies might tend to be culturally conservative (for better or for worse, you decide), but we're not some cultural "other".
@@MothyaveI just love how many eastern European countries debate whether they actually are eastern European while central European countries would never consider them central. It's quite snobby and absolutely ridiculous how we try to establish hirarchies even within the EU.
(Source: romenian ancestry, lived in German speaking countries all my life, best friends being slovenian and bosnian, both reporting the same efforts to 'market' their country as central)
@@lv834 Yeah, it is quite weird isn't it? On one side, yes we are in the Eastern part of Europe. On another, being called Eastern European feels like being slapped in the face with a reminder of the Soviet occupation.
I find it completely baffling when people say they can't get a person out of their house. Why is everyone so concerned about being rude when these people are the ones being rude. You are not being rude you are setting boundaries. If they do not leave immediately upon being asked CALL.THE.POLICE.
For the LDS story it's funny that despite all the many many many similarities between the church and MLMs even the church understands not to saturate a market by assigning missionaries specific territory XD
I think it’s assumed that LDS missionaries will be invited to lunch and dinner by people in the community, so they shouldn’t need a lot of money for groceries. $150 per month isn’t much for food, hygiene, and household expenses. 😢
I truly pity them, I haven't encountered missionaries at this point but if I do I'm gonna make sure to offer food, a phonecall or email while making it absolutely clear I'm not interested in their church so they don't get their hopes up
These stories are often filled with such infuriating behavior, but before I get too mad, Zeke's little "prrrrrreow?" makes me giggle. Thank you both for your work on these!
Hearing the LDS story reminded me of a church I attended as a child. It was Baptist, though. The pastor for the Sunday school did his form of "MLM" by offering us candy if we brought our friends in, and each friend was worth one piece of candy, a candy bar if that friend started coming back weekly, he even said that the church bus could pick them up if transportation was an issue. I was probably six at the time, but I can remember wanting that candy, because my family was poor, and of course candy was a rare treat for us, sadly only one of my friends came for one class. It's funny how hearing something can provoke a memory.
Sunday school pastors sure love bribing kids with candy lmao we'd get candy for memorizing bible verses every week... some of them are still engrained in my head because of that lol
All evengelical religions are similar in this way.
As someone who grew up LDS (I am not anymore) I can tell you that it isn't uncommon for many church members to be part of an MLM. As a child I had been taken along to many MLM parties, including Amway, Tupperware, Avon, Mary Kay and probably more but I don't know for sure. I know my mom had bought stuff from Avon and my friends mom even sold Avon (They weren't LDS though). It is crazy how many people from the church did buy and sell MLM products.
It is even more difficult now to have a single income household AND pay 10% of your income to the church.
@@DarkFire1536especially when they don’t even turn it around to help the needy! It just goes into their stock portfolios.
I used to be a debt collector at a financing company that mostly financed Kirby vacuums. Being reminded of those ridiculous financing terms gave me chills!! I remember very specifically a three way phone conversation with a woman who's mom got roped into financing a $3k vacuum, and she said "you paid more for this vacuum than you did your car."
I can't even imagine how hard that job was for you and everyone else with empathy. ❤
I'm Dutch, and I've barely ever encountered MLMs in my country, and I'm starting to understand why. My culture is often criticized for being extremely direct. But a side effect of that is that people have absolutely no problem saying NO. And being told no is not taken as an insult here. Al these people talking about how to find ways to gently say no or get rid of guilt tripping sales people or missionaries is both baffling and highly amusing to me. I actually once stumbled upon an LDS video on TH-cam about how to approach the Dutch for missionaries, and I found it fascinating. But it also cracked me up. For example, it explained why "How are you doing?" is not a greeting here, but a (somewhat intimate) question that people only use with aquaintaces,friends, and loved ones. So when you use it on the streets, people give you a suspicious look and get the heck away from you. It would kind of be like if a random person asked you a specific question about your health on the street. Like 'why is this stranger being creepily familiar with me?'. So all these sales tactics that were carefully curated by US corporates don't work here. Not that the Dutch are immune to sales and religion of course, but you need seriously different approaches in different countries and cultures.
I doubt it’s about Dutch being direct- it’s more about the Dutch govt not letting capitalism & money take priority over its people.
My guess is these business are illegal to operate in Netherlands.
The US says pyramid schemes are illegal but allow MLM as they are different. They are legal as MLMs ‘sell’ a product
@@KwazyKupkakes I'm pretty sure I've seen at least Tupperware and Doterra around in the Netherlands. But there may be some restrictions on those companies operations here. I don't know.
I never knew that about the Dutch it's really interesting! I'm Australian so we all say "How are you doing/How's it going" to strangers. What would a Dutch person say as an alternative? Would they just say hello to a stranger or do they not speak to then at all when passing?
I concur with the true crime/mlm thing, I like both! For me it's the psychology behind it: how does someone end up committing a crime, how does someone get sucked into an mlm...
I'm pretty sure this is how I stumbled across Hannah also, I think she was suggested in my news feed because I watched a lot of true crime stuff. 😅
I think you have a missing link that is Cults ! People who love true crime, also love cults stories, and MLM are commercial cult
Story 4 really did help me realize why I like your videos so much, I am definitely one of those who listen while I work but the problem is I have an audio processing disorder (APD) which makes listening to things really difficult though I have good hearing. So usually I need subtitles on to know what half of the words being said are. So while I agree every time people said your voice is really soothing I thought there was more to it and it is because you’re easy to listen too. It really does make a huge difference for people like me and I wanna thank you for that even if it’s not intentional lol
These stories are why I ignore my doorbell unless I am expecting a friend.
I misread the thumbnail as "lsd" and was so intrigued... Lds's connection to mlm is pretty straightforward issue, but i love your videos nonetheless 👍
Don’t give them drugs too 😂😂😂
I read LSD too 🤦🏻♀️😂
Makes me think of Kirk in the Star Trek movie 😂
As a (mostly) active LDS member, I am 100% on board with the fact that the mission system is both dangerous and broken. It's high pressure and so, so easy to turn into a terrible environment for anyone's mental health. The comparison to mlm honestly just makes me more angry that they still haven't fixed the system.
It really makes you wonder, why does god endorse this?
As an ex mormon.... I've seen so many MLMs in the church. Mary Kay, HerbaLife, Dōterra, etc.
I'm an actve member of the LDS church. My husband and I have been pitched Amway and Primerica. We politely declined! The church discourages members from using our church directories for business or political purposes.
Oh my gosh, yes. I’ve not had this happen for awhile, but over 15 years ago people were using church directories to sell insurance, makeup, clothing, homemaking products, etc.
Yeah I think part of it is also LDS probably have a higher ratio of stay at home moms who are already MLM targets. I did know the church has tried to start warning people, but from the outside the crossover is uncanny.
I found that highly ridiculous and reaching. The goals of our church and of MLMs are entirely different. Whereas we (including this missionary) are entirely there for serving your fellow man, MLMs are all about self, status and wealth. Completely opposite. Do both involve building connections with people, yes they do, but the similarities end there.
@lonijenks1734 the tactics are similar though.
I’d agree as an active member of the church, yes, MLM’s highly infiltrate because we all want to be kind and trust our fellow church members. Two things I don’t trust with other people as a member of the church: my kids and my money. Too many people have taken advantage of the kindness of others. I’d also note this isn’t synonymous with the LadS Church only, MLM’s have a way of preying on the religious, because we can trust a friend of our church friend.
No is a full sentence and I use it any time a MLM pitch is coming my way.
RE: LDS missionary budget, they are supposed to have dinner with a member of the church every day of the week, which would reduce grocery budget. Just additional info. 😊
that was my story!! we were fed by members but I had severe food restrictions and many of them couldn’t afford to feed me within my guidelines and gluten free/dairy free food is so much more expensive
Supposed to, but there’s rarely a safety net where that doesn’t happen.
The problem is that some missionaries dont get invited to dinner often enough or none at all and it seems the church isn't taking that into account
That depends on the area they're serving in. My brother served his mission in the Dominican Republic around 2015-2017. They were actually not ALLOWED to eat with the members except on holidays like Christmas because the people there could not afford to feed them in most cases. I have no idea what his budget was, but I do know that for most of his mission they actually had hired maids for the missionary apartments who were responsible for cooking for the missionaries. (Near the end of the mission, they no longer had maids.)
i’m glad you read the LDS one. i personally have concerns about the church given their connection to not only MLMs, but the consistent violent crimes against women and children. i don’t agree with religions that follow such a strict path and control people’s lives so much. i think free thinking is the most important thing we have as people here on earth, and groups that try to take that away just ring alarm bells in my head. i think the LDS community needs to acknowledge, while people shouldn’t hate on them, they need to recognize the connection between their religious group and cult like structures/ MLMS / violent and sexual crimes. because the connection is very concerning! but thank you for shedding light on the situation and being respectful! love your videos Hannah!!❤
And “indirect” violence against LGBTQ members who decide to unalive themselves. 💔
I love your videos but if i can make one small suggestion: it would help a lot if you named the chapters in your timestamp something more descriptive cause sometimes i want to search for a specific story 🙏 thanks for your work Hannah!
Good idea! I hope she does this :) even if they're labeled with the MLM name that would be helpful.
Wow, I've heard a lot of horror stories now, but the lady telling the child to steal from her grandmother was a new low.
You’re taught to doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith was a powerful line to hear. This one had some rly important stories, as horrific as they were to hear!!
From the bottom of my heart, I wish the first girl's ex a miserable life where none of his dreams come true 😊
Well said
Yesss that. Exactly that
It sounds like he was clear with her that he did not want to keep a special needs pregnancy and she had a choice whether or not to keep it. Which should be every womens right, but with that right comes full responsibility for the outcome. Forcing someone to parent a special needs child is a recipe for disaster. It's better for all involved that he left.
@@Elizabeth-n3v2uI agree with you on that if your choices are not compatible in a topic is important as this breaking up is the way to go. But, and I understand we’re getting a one sided and incomplete story here, the OP’s sentiment comes from the ex’s abandonment of the existing children as well, that’s the story implies, or at least that’s what I took from the wording.
@@Elizabeth-n3v2uit takes two to tango: shouldn't he have considered when he decided to father a child that there's a possibility that it won't all be roses? Why should he do the deed and then decide to skip when the consequences aren't exactly what he wants?
Ah yes, I tell people about the BITE model when I talk about missions and the only reason I realized it fell right into model was because your episode about that book selling MLM. After that I got super uncomfortable with all the MLM horror stories because they sounded a lot like my mission. I’ll add that when I served my mission in the early 2010s, 150 a month was enough for me but it was because we were in N. Florida, and we had a lot of support from the local congregations where we always had dinner with members. I believe the limited funds is partly to encourage missionaries to get into member’s homes so that they’re always thinking about missionaries, and to find people for the missionaries to teach. It also felt a little bit like surveillance. Members of the church watch the missionaries very closely, and have high expectations of us. Like one time the bishop of one our wards told us we needed to smile more, and a few days later our mission president told us that he heard from members of our congregation that we didn’t smile enough so we needed to fix that. @_@
Wow. The smiling thing is so icky. I am glad you didn't have to go hungry on your mission. My husband and I always fed the missionaries as often as we could as well as bought groceries for them when we did a Costco run.
I bet the Kirby rep wanted her husband there so that she wouldn't say, "I would have to talk to my husband first." I am sure that is why they probably told them that.
Why on earth would they take my vacuum cleaner with them? Isn’t this STEALING?!?! Never heard of such thing…If someone takes my vacuum cleaner and then I have to drive 60 miles to get it back, I’ll change them fuel and waste of time.
Some kind of sell are "Buy a new one, and we will take your old one with us" Think like fridge, or washing machine, or car. There is probably some kind of clause like that in the sell contract
They pitch it as a free disposal. We gave them a busted vacuum.
I think another interesting aspect of the LDS model is an understanding that you can't keep "recruiters" long term because they'll start questioning too much. If MLMs adopt a similar structure, it would be interesting and horrifying.
Everytime I hear Avon mentioned in a video, I hear the child from Edward Scissorhands inside my head yell: "Ding dong, Avon lady!"
Utah is the global hub for MLMs. The state has intentional regulation loopholes that makes it easy to operate a company in ways that would be illegal in most other states.
Much respect to Katja; that was BADASS!
Gosh, my heart dropped when she mentioned the elevator part. 😢 Even I felt hurt and angry, even though it's not even me, but then realized I'm not surprised.
Adding some thoughts as another LDS member, but thank you so much Hannah for being polite! Too often, I hear people who don't agree with my religion that try to break it down and rip it to pieces. While I can tell you don't necessarily agree with the church, you did your best to remain impartial, and that means a lot 💕
I'll also mention that, yes, in the past especially, there had been a lot of push to not question the gospel and just try harder. However the church has had a greater push on what we call "personal revelation," which is all about finding answers for yourself. If there's something about church history you struggle with, dive into it and find out for yourself what you think. That's been a big push in recent years, and I like to see how that has encouraged us as members to think for ourselves and gain our own opinions on all sides of the gospel.
Thank you again for your kindness! I was nervous when I saw the thumbnail, but I'm so relieved to see this didn't turn into a bashing session so all could enjoy!
Thank you for this comment. There's a lot of faith-bashing going on in the comments. The story was very anti-faith imo because it left out the whole revelation process.
Ex-mormon here. So the church encourages you to Google search church history and fact-check stuff now? Or is it just like... Pray about it? This was very discouraged against during my time (90's and 00's)
@@jelyfisherthis was my story!! I have severe PTSD and religious OCD because of my mission. I was known to be one of the most faithful missionaries in the mission and worked extremely hard. The revelation I received was that the way my mission president handled thing was extremely damaging and my very active and faithful family are still appalled all these years later by how I was mistreated. Personal revelation also reveals that the church isn’t for everyone and missions are especially difficult for many many people. Maybe if the story made you feel defensive then you should reflect on why.
@@kndr2094yes, you're encouraged to take your concerns to the Lord in prayer. It's an exercise of faith.
@@clairedeluneonthemoonI couldn't finish your story because, whatever your faith was on your mission, I heard a lot of contempt and skepticism. I know my faith, and what you wrote hurts my heart, but it's not because I need to doubt what I know. It's because I'm sad you can't share the same experiences. I'm sorry you got hurt, and I hope you find healing.
I won't be replying anymore.
I can't vouch for the actual content of the video because I haven't watched it yet, but if story 3 got you interested in diving deeper into the LDS and MLM connection, Jordan and McKay on youtube recently put out a video discussing it. Could be a good follow-up piece for people seeking more information.
Watch it!!!! It is a great video!
It is an excellent video. They really show why LDS members are so apt to get into MLMs.
I've been watching you since you were at around 30k subs. I'm so happy that you are basically at 150k!!! I just knew your channel would blow up with all the juicy content being put out at such a consistent pace. 🎉
Lol, grew up LDS and thought it was a cult at eight years old. I remember my father inviting missionaries in because they were often hungry, tired, dehydrated, and some were kind of out of it from walking all day. I was actually friends (in the way a 20 year old can be with a 14 year old) with a missionary and used to sneak her my treats from Sunday school because I felt really bad for her. She visited us pretty frequently because my father always welcomed missionaries and probably because my family never saw anyone go hungry (besides me, I guess)
Your last little note there at the end made me sad - I hope you're doing OK 💕 thanks for sharing your experiences with us here
Good for you realizing it was cult so young!! I wish I could say the same. I hope you are doing ok now 💛💛
I'm LDS and extremely anti MLM 😂 Hard to be like this sometimes since I live 10 minutes from the Yount Living Lavendar farm 🙃
That's exactly how I feel, fellow LDS person that's also anti MLM
Also active LDS and hate MLMs. My parents were not into though and I'm not either.
As an Ex-Mormon, I’m so glad you shared this story. People need to be informed what that church is actually like and what, at the corporate (top) level, it actually stands for. It can suck for the messenger, but those feathers need to be ruffled. Thank you for including it!
One of the lessons from these stories is Stick Up For Yourself! These huns are counting on their marks’ politeness even though their own behavior is aggressive, rude, and highly inappropriate. The woman on the bridge is a great model for all of us. Throw it back at them. (The Kirby reps in your house, esp!)
The rules for Kirby Reps sounds like the rules for Vampires. Don’t invite them in. 😂😂😂
To rob a thief! That’s the movie. Anyone who likes this anti-mlms should watch this movie. Memory unlocked 🤯
Omg to the first woman, I'm sorry about her husband leaving her. That's just awful.
First notification I see after landing in Madrid! My holiday is starting off great!!
my cousins grandpa started a construction job at a mormon-owned company when he was younger. he wasn’t mormon. when he got his first paycheck, they had taken it upon themselves to deduct 10% for tithes to the LDS church. his wife stormed down there SO FAST to make them give him his money.
As a very non-traditional LDS person, it’s insane how prevalent MLMs are in the church community. I went back to church for the first time in months and the first talk was introduced by the girl giving her life story and talking about how she got involved with a great ppportunity this last year, starting her own business with Mary Kay. She’s not even 20 yet.
Separate note, from the first story- if you aren’t mentally ready to possibly have a disabled child with heavy medical needs, don’t have kids. How dare the ex husband leave her because of the pregnancy! He has the “luxury” of being able to abandon his own family because he had to take up more responsibility for his newborn while she has additional responsibilities without the support of a loving partner. That was so disturbing and so was the hun interaction. When Hannah read the “when the pregnancy fails” part, I gasped so loud my dog ran over to me from the other room. I seriously hope her and her kiddos are doing so much better now and I wish her all the best.
I would amend this to: don’t agree to have kids with someone before knowing one of you would be willing to keep the child when the other wouldn’t. Like, have that conversation and get on the same page. As long as you both agree what to do in that situation, it’s not an issue. Same principle for if you want kids at all or not.
I literally binged all the mlm horror Stories of you in like two weeks. Fell in love with your channel! Came for the influencer insanity (thank you algorithm), stayed for the mlm content 🤭😍
Still my favorite in the game. Thank you for the care you put into these videos and the way you discuss these topics.
I've been bingeing your MLM Horror Stories videos. And recently I wanted to talk to a friend who I haven't spoken to in months because I want to work on my friendships. While composing my message, I just got the ick with myself because it sounds like I'm gonna recruit her for an MLM! "When are you available for coffee?" 🤣🤣🤣 Adult friendships are hard
Lmao I remember some random guy vacuuming my bed when I was a kid. We had soo many door to door salespeople come to our house. Anything from meat to vacuums to encyclopedias. So glad that isn’t a huge thing anymore.
Ex-mormon here! Thankfully I never got too deep into the MLMs. I did get pitched a few times, but thankfully while growing up I never dealt with an MLM.
Mad respect to you for still reading that story about the LDS church despite being friends with some Mormons. It's important that the story gets out there.
The $30 kirby purchase from Goodwill made me laugh out loud.
Just wanted to come in and say Hi! Love the videos! I also love the new influencer videos and started sharing those videos to my daughter's as extra media literacy- especially since I don't have tik tok and didn't realize how ad driven it has become! Thanks for all you do!
I loved this video. So much going on with LDS and a Hun asking a child to steal to help her business. To what length individual will go to enhance their belief systems - whatever it takes to recruit or make money is okay, even when it violates norms, laws, and moral traditions.
And just plain objective ethics as well! It’s so disheartening.
I don't listen to true crime channels because I can't find any that don't report on murder cases...and I can't support people making money off of some random person's death that they just found on the Internet....gives me the biggest ick....
With the financial crime/cryptos arrests as of late, Coffeezilla's content might scratch the true crime itch without the violence.
The only “true crime” I consume is scams/frauds. For example, the missing crypto queen podcast. Or on TH-cam, coffeezilla. Usually in those the victims want and are able to collaborate.
The ones about murders don’t interest me and are an ethical minefield.
The podcast Scam Goddess is pretty good. It exclusively covers (of course) scams.
Ridiculous Crime is also really good!
Try scambuster channels as well. Coffeezilla and Voidzilla (same person, different formats), Slidebean's Company Forensics videos and James Jani are my faves.
The irony of me watching this after Fundie Fridays just did serveral deep dives on Christian misson organizations, not the LDS, but stilll the connections are absolutely insane 😭
Thank you for the Playlist. Going through it while knitting today
I cook and do housework while binge listening to Hannah’s content. 😊
Happy knitting and binging 😊
I sold Tupperware 18 years ago. It sort of sold itself, but I didn’t do it more than a couple years. Mostly because I can’t do the aggressive sales approach. The woman who was my director wasn’t “LDS” but she did use her church to start her business. Probably because you start with who you spend the most time with, family, friends, community. 🙂
While this video focused on the LDS church, the same can be applied to really any church or community for people who are doing MLMs.
We had a very similar Kirby experience- they would not do the presentation without us both present- myself and spouse. We decided not to purchase and had to run the guy out and he tried to take our vacuum with him when he left!
Hearing Hannah say "deadass" outloud made me giggle! Love these videos.
You are a true class act, Hannah. Much respect for how you handle these stories and how you draw clear lines with what you are comfortable discussing. Keep the great content coming!
I’m so sad, I’ve been subscribed since 15k and just saw I’d been unsubscribed in the last couple days!? I’m hoping this didn’t happen for a bunch of us, I’ve been so happy for you and your success lately🥰❤️ so proud of you!💓
I was watching a video from a non-MLM creator. He showed a meme where a person meets up with an old friend from 10 years ago, hidden behind the friend's back is a MLM pyramid scheme. People all around the World are waking up to the tactics of the MLM huns.
Thank you again Hannah. You are so kind and respectful, even when the 'characters' in the stories are not deserving. You are an amazing creator!
I got super nervous about this one with the LDS tag on it, because I LOVE your content and I am an active and believing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and sometimes anti MLM gets anti LDS really fast. Anyway, thank you for your respectful handling of the submission. Yeah, there are obvious similarities and a very unfortunate saturation of MLMs in Utah. MLMs totally prey on these poor women who were raised to think they HAVE to stay home with their herd of children, and in the current economy the "work from home bUsIneSS OppOrTUnITiEs" look like a great idea. Thankfully, my parents raised me with a good head on my shoulders and I know better. My faith is my own, and I'm not a blind follower - I can separate my personal faith and beliefs from "Church Culture" (which especially sucks along the Wasatch Front through Utah and Idaho).
Thank you for speaking kindly about your LDS loved ones and being gentle with your comments. The pipeline from LDS to MLM is definitely there, but it's pretty nuanced and involves a lot of unfortunate cultural practices that are not actually church doctrine. I promise not all of us "Church Members" are pyramid nut jobs!
I grew up LDS and my mom was a customer for many, many, many MLMs. She brought me and my sister along to several product ”parties” as kids and I always enjoyed them. I think she trusted them more because she was being sold stuff from her friends and fellow believers. It also means when I started looking into selling, no one batted an eye. Thank god I’m shy because it helped me not last long lol. I wish I had gotten a better education on these issues much earlier in life, though, as it would have saved me so much emotional turmoil, my reputation, and of course, money!
And probably would have helped me to recognize the flaws in the church much sooner, too!
I'm also training my english as foreign language with your videos. I'm interested in the subject and also appreciate your vibes and clear pronunciation 😊
I got to the same church, but I am what you call a member only on Sundays, and before I would have listened to this story, I always thought that I wouldn't like my kids to serve a mission.
I’d like to add another perspective of the LDS mission. I served a mission under these rigorous guidelines. I would say that my experience was hard, but transformative in a way that helps me be a better part of society at large. I didn’t feel that middle aged men deemed me worthy, I feel that I decided of my own volition to do it and live in a way that would prepare me to take on a large religious responsibility with no external pressure (I submitted the paperwork in secret while living abroad far from family and friends). It is not a cult practice because those who do not choose to serve are no less worthy than other members and they have no smaller value in the church community. The way it’s organized is tough, and the reason it’s not longer is not so that “recruiters won’t see what’s really going on or ask questions” but rather because it’s unreasonable for anyone to dedicate more of their life to just one thing. I would compare it more to nuns and monks, who live regimented strict lives, but we only do it for a short time and then move on. Many people do similar things with meditation retreats, yoga retreats, etc. that may be shorter or longer. It’s just one way to dedicate your life to a Higher Power and *try* to do good in the world.
As far as “doubt your doubts” the sentence ends with “before you doubt your faith” NOT “before you doubt the church or the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith or Jesus”. I think any religion that would be considered far from being a cult would agree! Look to faith to work out your questions, and never be afraid to ask questions. I have doubts all the time, and I sit with them, explore them, talk about them, find information anywhere I want…there’s no control. And should I choose to leave, I would still be loved and embraced by my family.
I am not here to convince anyone to join haha but this perspective is not accurate to the actual intentions of LDS missions. Choose to believe me or call me crazy, just felt that it was worth putting in that perspective. Peace and love
I'm glad to see your comment here, it helps because I always get so anxious whenever non-members or ex-members talk about the LDS church, so I'm glad for something to balance the perspective out.
I think of "being worthy," like having done all that is required to be ready to participate in _______, having met the prerequisites for ______. It has nothing to do with the value of a person.
In the New Testament, worthy is translated from the Greek word 'hikanos' which means:
- Definition: (a) considerable, sufficient, of number, quantity, time, (b) of persons: sufficiently strong (good, etc.), worthy, suitable, with various constructions, (c) many, much.
- Origin: From hiko (hikano or hikneomai, akin to heko) (to arrive); competent (as if coming in season), i.e. Ample (in amount) or fit (in character).
Nicely put 😊 thanks for sharing your perspective on this!
Not accurate to the advertised intentions, anyway. Have you looked into the BITE model?
Congratulations on your silver play button. Also, congratulations on smashing that by 50% near weeks later. So proud of you been here since before 50k.
My mom's side of the family aren't active, but technically we've all been baptized into, "The Church." I'm, atheist, but when, missionaries come to the door, I say, "we're already mormon, bye bye!"
Thanks for great videos! :) I was a mormon for six years and I’ve never seen so many MLM sales pitches as in that time
It’s all the same thru any cult, religion or MLMs. If you fail it’s all your fault and no fault of the organization.
Indeed, just like how pretty much everyone who deconvents from a religion is accused of "never being a TRUE [insert label]" - because they cannot possibly have had legitimate issues with the belief system
@@KreeZafiEXACTLY
When I was younger, a guy, or maybe two knocked on our door to promote a vacuum. They said, "This vacuum is way better than your vacuum." My mom not knowing much English and loving cleaning, was obviously intrigued. I don't know if this was Kirby, but hearing that this happened in my home state, makes me think that this was maybe Kirby. My mom had to call my dad to confirm with him about a few details. This happened when I was 7, so some details are forgotten. The guy came in to clean our carpet, and he was looking at our vacuum. He showed us "scientific evidence" of why our vacuum was terrible and why we needed an extra powerful vacuum.
Someone might know this vacuum, but I remember that you had to make the rug wet with a special spraying solution. Then you wait 30 minutes for the rug to dry. After that, you put in these pads, and I think you add water to the vacuum. Then you vacuum with this heavy vacuum. Then at the end, you take out the pads and look at the dirt that was pulled from your rug.
My mom said no because, with a huge family, no one has the time to wait 30 minutes to vacuum a rug. Plus this vacuum was heavy, so it wasn't ideal for a pregnant woman. It was also really expensive, and we already had two good working vacuums.
Luckily, after an hour of showing his product, the guy said, "It's okay if you don't want to buy it, and I see that the discount is not changing your opinion, but if you change your mind here's my business card." I was happy we didn't get the vacuum, because it would of made vacuuming a very hard chore.
Wow… I grew up with Elders and Sisters in my house. I lived in a small town and I would see them walking around all day long.
We used to have them over for dinner and I can remember hearing stories just like what you’re describing.
I heard stories of their debit cards getting declined at the store because the church had taken money out of their accounts. My heart broke for them, which is why my mom always had them over for dinner.
Sisters had men answer the door naked, or feeling pressured to go into potentially dangerous situations.
I am an ex Mormon, that grow up in Utah, and know dozens of people in MLMs. I even worked for cooperate at one. My experience was not this girls, though appreciate her insights. Very few MLM members I know served a mission. Mostly, they were stay at home moms, looking to make a side income and/or hobby and/or friends. Utah has very favorable laws for MLM cooperations, and my belief, is that simply due to proximity, the Utahans are targeted.
The missions are not as restrictive these days, elders/sisters can frequently and almost daily communicate with family at home.
I do think the church’s structure and obsession with authority is off, but that isn’t the point of this comment, I just wanted to add another perspective as someone who 1) grew up in Utah 2) grew up Mormon 3) worked at and MLM and 4) knows many many in MLMs. I am anti MLM but love many in MLMs.
Stop scamming grandma!!!
Found out today that my coworker was in an MLM. Not only that, but he was in multiple MLMs, and he actually said the words to me "Amway isn't a scam, and not all MLMs are scams." So he understands that MLMs CAN be scams, but drank enough of the kool-aid to believe that none of the MLMs he was in could have been scams. He's by no means an intelligent person, but then again intelligent people fall for MLMs all the time.
I just left the LDS (Mormon) church, and I went on a mission too. It destroyed my mental health.
That story about the rep telling the girl to steal money from her grandmother was one of the most outrageous things I have ever heard on your channel.
Your (awesome) videos led me to look up Kirby...who was (until recently) owned by Berkshire Hathaway...and that info sent me to a page about the "Direct Selling Association"...and oh dear Lord, the ganglia of these MLMs run so very deep. 😱
Working nights Monday is my day off and it always starts with a nice cup of coffee and these stories. Been subbed since your Posh days and it's amazing to see the steady growth. Congrats Hannah, you deserve it!