Daleks aren't robots, right? Well, Destiny of the Daleks has a very surprising answer... All footage is the property of the BBC. Music by Frank Klepacki (Mutants - C&C Tiberian Sun soundtrack)
I never considered that they were actually robots. I just took those references as a mix of hyperbole and insult, for the tactical impasse that the Daleks had found themselves at.
I always interpreted them being regarded as Robots in a metaphorical sense. Hell, the books confirmed it as such. Davros was mighty pissed at The Emperor for letting the Daleks stay this way. The Daleks are supposed to be unnaturally detached in their sociopathic thinking. It can easily be misconstrued as robotic. That said, I don't have an answer for the wad of gum scene that Tom Baker picked up.
Given that 'robot' originates from the Czech/Slavic word for slave worker, and the Daleks in turn have become slaves to their own technology. So it makes sense in a way.
I just see it as a time when the Daleks experimented on lower ranking units to see how effective it would be if they let their casing’s internal computer take full control.
Terry Nations Script for Destiny of the Daleks was almost entirely rewritten by Douglas Adams, so I think he was the reason the Daleks are often seen as robots. Course many including myself know better.
The explanation that just this faction of Daleks are robots is really the best way to explain why they’re out of character (being so loyal & obedient to Davros, lack of cunning, etc)
Daleks sometimes try to emulate their enemies to defeat them. It's possible they created these "robots" as a way to understand and better fight the Movellans. Robot Daleks could at least bring them to a standstill if not beat them. Another explanation is that the Daleks could have been completely robotic despite having organic bits, just like the Cybermen. One of the Dalek factions in "Remembrance" had cybernetic bits. It is possible that the Daleks were basically robots at this point in time. (Maybe a desire to return to an organic form contributed to their civil war.)
Jon Pertwee was one of my favourite Doctors, I distinctly remember his story Death to the Daleks, where they land on the planet Exxilon with a sentient city that drains power from surrounding sources, preventing the TARDIS and the daleks' weapons from working. Sarah Jane asks the Doctor how such robots can move at all; he explains "They're only half-robot, inside each of those shells is a lump of hate," and that they move by psycho-kinetic power
I tend to go with the idea that the Daleks were metaphorically robots, or were cyborged to be plugged into the battle computers. Mind you, watching the video I found myself looking at the Daleks and wondering if the peg/spike at the top-center of the domes appeared in any previous or subsequent story, and if there's an interesting in-universe function for it, possibly relating to these Daleks being more robotic.
I think it was more they trusted the battle computers and their internal computers so much that they started to think like computers. It may also link to when Davros made them more logical after talking to the Doctor. Then later on he says in Ressurection that was a mistake and he will return their instincts and understanding of manipulating emotions. As we later see in the new series.
Keep in mind that the definition of "Robot" is a bit fluid. A robot is not necessarily something that acts autonomously. You could very much argue that the Dalek battle armor itself is a robot that is controlled by the Dalek mutant inside. Whether or not that's what Terry Nation had in mind though is another story.
My interpretation was always that these ones were effectively robots instead of actual ones, but nevertheless would only attack if ordered to do so by their battle computers (hence Davros' line about computerised battle fleets) - and hearing that Terrance Dicks did too, well that's good enough for me!
This wild and interesting, funny enough the tabletop rpg refers to Daleks (by the mechanics of the game) as cyborgs because of their heavy dependency on their travel machines. As for the robot confusion, I think it might've just been the showrunner wanting them to fit into his story idea, it wouldn't be the first time a showrunner has played fast and loose with continuity in a tv show for the sake of their vision for episodes, and this is even beyond Dr Who in that regards.
In terms of drama, I think Daleks are scariest when you don't really know what they are or what's in them. I appreciate that fans need SOME answers and enjoy understanding how things are supposed to work in the show. But I think the more the show can do to up the mystery, the better. So I like that their creator gave us something of a paradox here. I hate that they showed the creature inside a Dalek. To me, that's like telling us the Doctor's real name! Since they are the Doctor's true nemesis, I think they should be almost as mysterious as him. If I'd written the Daleks, I wouldn't have touched their origin planet or backstory for decades, keeping everything a mystery :D
I remember when I was a kid, back when the Paradigm Daleks first appeared on screen, I thought the red one (the Dalek Drone), was in fact a robotic dalek, on account of it being called a drone (akin to autonomous vehicles) and how it was described as the soldier of the Paradigm ranks, which seemed like a role that a near-extinct species wouldn't bestow on one of their own kind. I thought that since the Paradigm was supposedly just the 5 daleks, they didn't have any other Progenitors on hand and had to bolster their numbers by using automated dalek casings as frontline soldiers. It wasn't until a few years later, after the Paradigm got sidelined, that I randomly realised that the "Drone" title was just what standard daleks were called anyways, and was probably just a name inspired by drone bees/ants.
My theory is that so few Daleks were made before the Doctor destroyed the incubator room that the Daleks had no choice but to become a largely robotic species with a handful of biological leaders. Consider this, the Daleks were created by Davros and twenty or so were made and sent to destroy the Thals and upon their return the production line starts and more are made but how many are completed before the Doctor destroys the incubator room? And how advanced were these first Daleks without their creator there to make more Dalek mutants? Could they rebuild the incubator room and create more Dalek mutants from the remains of the Kaleds they had killed in the bunker etc or were they stuck without any way to procreate biologically until they experimented more themselves and learned how to do it? But to create more "empty" Dalek casings run by a simple computer program that would follow orders would be relatively simple in comparison and we know that Davros said himself that part of the production line was completely automated. So perhaps the existing few dozen organic Daleks were an elite and commanded the robotic Daleks until they found a way to reproduce organically and create more biological Daleks. Once this was done perhaps then the Movellans realised completely organic "free thinking" Daleks would out match their purely robotic species but by becoming more organic it gave the Daleks a weakness they could exploit ans created their virus as a biological weapon which ultimately decimated the Daleks.
I think this could have some really good story potential. If the Daleks ran out of the original DNA and they did not want to mutate from other beings because they would deem that as impure they would begin to replace themselves with computers I think if low on resources for mutations they will begin to replace themselves with computers however the higher-ups in command will always be mutants
i was under the impression, in the case of these Daleks, most of them were like Drones - with the exception being the "Genesis" Dalek which was probably the only organic one of the bunch.
Interesting to see footage from the fan version of "Power of the Daleks" here. Sidenote: I remember when "Dalek" and "Bad Wolf"/"Parting of the Ways" aired in 2005, fans on Outpost Gallifrey critcised the then-new design, claiming it was TOO robotic, and that RTD obviously didn't understand the Daleks and Doctor Who. I imagine those same fans still exist, in some lonely corner of the Internet.
@@minicle426 it's exactly the same way that fans hated Murray Gold's music in Series 1 -- Davies, in "The Writer's Tale," talks of how Gold was so shaken by criticism of his take of the theme tune that he suggested he step down, only for Davies to insist he stay on -- and now, perhaps those same fans, are cheering Gold's return. It's for reasons like that, that I generally ignore the fandom, even on the occasions I happen to agree with certain criticisms.
i think that more a comparison on how the daleks think, rather then them being machines, both relying on battle computers and not even considering trying UN-logical maneuvers which would break the status quo, two races one machine and one mutant in a tank both lacking any creativity, it why later individual special dalek are allowed to exists to prevent a situation like the movelian-dalek war, such as the cult of skaro, dalek time strategist etc
One other explanation. The novel "War of the Daleks" states that the movelans we're actually Dalek creations and that the entire war was a trick to prevent the destruction of Skaro. It would make sense then that the Daleks in that war would be robots.
Honestly, i never thought to hard about it, but i'm willing to believe they were robots for the story, but maybe had some background reasoning, mayhaps the daleks were losing troops due to the virus, and once deemed safe enough they activated homing mechanisms they built into the casings so that they can limit using up resources on new casings, but eventually their numbers dwindled to a point where they couldn't sustain the war so decided to add artificial intelligence to the existing undamaged casings, obviously programmed to act and function almost identically to regular daleks, but with a higher logic factor built in, they truly had no fear, the only emotion was a slight bit of anger towards the doctor specifically. once complete and activated the first fleet started assessing the situation, and put forward all daleks on the front line of this specific war were to be automated as to limit casualties, and considering the homing automation already in place, it could mean that the daleks could try and mutate themselves to be more resilient to the virus while still staying "pure" as they seem to like to be. roll on say 50 years, the war is at a stalemate, so its decided to find and rescue davros to end the stalemate, because these logic driven machines lack the imagination to form an unorthodox strategy that could give them the upper hand. TL;DR: daleks made their casings robots to win a war and limit casualties with AI and logic, it went wrong so send for davros to be illogical to give the upper hand
Much of the Dalek nature seems to come from the casing and its computers, despite the blobs being genetically engineered psychopaths. This is supported partially in Genesis (the suggestion that the machine limits their actions in some way, I'll have to rewatch it again, memory is foggy) and definitely when Clara tried to talk to the Doctor after Missy stuffed her into a casing. With all that said, it is then possible that the casing can function like a self driving car/tank after the creature has died, for whatever reason, maybe a final order from the Dalek within. That then opens up the possibility that the movelan virus was developed from something that had already devastated the Dalek population. Who knows?
Can't be. Because in the scene where the leader Dalek was interorgating Romana with the line; Answer! Answer! ANSWER!! That Dalek was showing emotion; annoyanc, anger. To which a robot can't show. I think the concept is good. After all, in Genesis, the 4th Doctor destroyed the incubator room of Dalek mutants. As the Doctor would say he "Had little help from a Dalek." So with the incubator room destroyed it would seem logical to make Dalek casings with an AI controling the unit since the original Dalek in Genesis 'killed' Davros so he was unable to organise more. And even so, I would say that the Dalek mutants are robot-like seeing as they do what their on board computer in the casing tells them on certain situations. In Destinty, Davros says to the Doctor 'When the Dalek ship arrives, you WILL accompy us.' To me it could mean the original Daleks from Genesis could be on that ship and on Skaro could be the robotic battalion of Daleks. And the Movelan virus, it could still effect robotic Daleks as the virus could also attack Dalek armor casings and not just the mutant operator.
I always thought in destiny of the daleks the daleks had made them selves totally dependent on there battle computers that they no longer had any strategic thinking and were pretty much machines with creatures inside them that just followed the programming of there battle computers (it’s a very stupid idea to have the daleks as robots and it just makes them ssoooo boring)
Dispite that when I first watched Destiny Of The Daleks, I never thought of it that the Daleks are "robots" until when I was watching some other Dalek story as well as The Five Doctors and realized that they are not robots which they are mutant Kaled machine creatures that were created by Davros on the planet Skaro and these Daleks in Destiny were send to Skaro by the Supreme Dalek in order to understand the robot ways of the Movellans by removing some organic parts with the help from Davros so they can return to their fleets and win the war against the Movellans and Terry Nation might have changed the Daleks in a different way in this Dalek story. Even though that when Davros was created the Imperial Daleks on Necros and then the civil war between two Dalek faction the Imperial Daleks were equipped with the cybernetic parts within their systems at that time.
I can’t second guess Terry Nation’s intentions or if it was Douglas Adams’ idea to make them robots. But if I had to guess, it was probably for the convenience of the story. As for a lore standpoint, I’m inclined to the Terrence Dicks take, their being as good as robots. This robot issue is part of why I don’t think much of Destiny, part of what makes the Daleks interesting is that they’re not just robots, robots can be very boring. I also think the humour in Destiny contributed a lot to the comedic tropes associated with the Daleks and cementing their reputation as a powerful enemy in name only.
nation just fucked up. I think after his mild telling off before he wrote genesis he tried to be creative again and wrote himself into a corner making the daleks match the movellans so the war would be stuck in a stalemate and davros would be needed
The daleks are not robots they alien species of planet skaro in the original series of doctor who I think looks like the mysterons from classic captain scarlet and mysterons from classic series
I blame Douglas Adams for possibly re-editing the story to state the Daleks as robots cause I find it hard to believe that Terry Nation is the one who made them out to be robots after 12 years of him describing the Daleks as genetically mutated aliens inside machines. Im sure even he is not dumb enough to just blow that out of the water
‘Destiny’ seems to keep going out of its way to contradict itself. The Doctor, on discovering the truth about the Movellans, pronounces with disgust that they’re “just another race of robots, no better than the Daleks…” as if there is something inherently contemptible about robotic beings. Yet at the beginning of the story we see him expressing tender concern for K9. In another instance, when the Doctor threatens to blow himself up along with Davros, a Dalek retorts, “Self sacrifice illogical, therefore impossible!” But a little while later, a whole squad of Daleks, rigged out with explosives, set off on a suicide mission… I suppose it’s possible that the Dalek who debated with the Doctor was displaying unusual depths of insight; I.e. “Self sacrifice would make sense for me because I’m a genetically engineered clone serving the greater Dalek cause, but not for you because you’re totally an individualist…” I read somewhere that Adams (who seems to have had form for riding roughshod over his collaborators- did such an extensive rewrite that there wasn’t much of Nation’s script left - and I always thought the notion of two space fleets locked in a logical impasse for centuries sounded like something straight out of ‘Hitchhikers’. It leaves an impression that some of the more glaring inconsistencies in the story may just have been Adams ‘avin’ a larf…
It's an annoying pothole but I like to look it as either The Mutant DNA was breaking down or degrading or the Daleks here are purely robot variants, The Mutants stay safe in the Mothership whilst rebuilding their army.
Daleks are like humans in a way we use our phones to navigate us we use our phones to think for us we go to a data bank to search for information and we use our phones to communicate
I think it’s possible that the natural evolution of the Daleks is to ascend beyond biology because of their entire viewpoint of purity in the universe and trying to go backwards towards a more humanoid form resulted in failure. Biology creates issues for the Daleks and I think it would be very poetic if they were to come to the same conclusion as Rassilon that their ultimate form would be as a being of consciousness that controlled the travel machine. Then their weaknesses would be down to the apparatus that can be fixed rather than risking their own biological purity. However the return serve argument is that the entire point of the Daleks is that they believe they are the ultimate beings in whatever form they take and despite being knowing to have evolved over the years via various means, they have never forced themselves to evolve by-and-large and those singular examples of attempts have resulted in them being executed. It would have to be a unanimous consensus among the entire species as such a notion could result in another Civil War
I think its just a phrasing problem. Dont they find dalek flesh at the start of the episode? I think they just call them robots because this episode focuses mostly on the dalek battle computer, which could be described as a robot. Im sure daleks have targeting systems and all kinds of robotic features that could result in someone mistaking them for robots too.
The Doctor finds a Kaled mutant and says "of course! The Daleks were originally organic lifeforms" Davros also calls the Movellans "another race of robots", referring also to the Daleks
@@dalekbumps Yeah I Agree with Terrance, I always thought that like cybermen, here they are so reliant on logic they may as well be robots, just with an organic mind, and that after destiny, they improved themselves based on what they learned from Davros in a short space of time, knowing that their reliant on logic became a problem so they evolved to use more instinctual thought process and become less reliant on their battle computer. So yeah to me it was always just phrasing of the Daleks. I know the Doctor says "Originally" but that just seemed to me like they used to be more organic in their thought process and less reliant in logic. But that's just my thoughts, I know there are lots of people who would disagree with me.
@Dalek Bumps based on this dialogue you could guess that they have long since discarded organic daleks, but if so, why is there just flesh lying around??
@@consciouslyawarenervesyste5846 I've been asking that same question for years... Destiny of the Daleks is one of those episodes - if you switch your brain off, it's a really fun ride, but the moment you start questioning any of the logic in the story the whole thing falls apart
@@consciouslyawarenervesyste5846 was the jelly thing the doctor picked up ever mentioned as a kaled mutant? I'm not sure it was and people just assumed so it's easy to say it was just another form of life on Skaro
Calling the Daleks robots was a script and continuity error on the part of the writers. Let's not try to explain it as part of the storyline or some far fetched Dalek faction
Perhaps at some point in their history the Daleks' ideological obsession with purity had a brief coalescence with the notion of mechanical purity and the weakness of flesh, only for this belief to be later eschewed and replaced with racial and genetic purity for the majority of Dalek history. This would mean that using, or not using, the "robot" Daleks in various scenarios could be put down to Dalek beliefs at the time, rather than what would make the most operational sense. For example, at the height of robot Dalek usage, not using them for important missions could've been seen as admitting that Dalek robotics and AI had weaknesses and limitations. Similarly when biological purity reasserted itself as the primary Dalek concern, using robots may have been seen as weak and cowardly from the arrogant perspective of biological Daleks, something only an inferior species would rely upon.
Terry Nation wasnt that good a writer. I know he is beloved and rghtfully so but he often wrote his scripts on the fly and with little thought of continuity.
I never considered that they were actually robots. I just took those references as a mix of hyperbole and insult, for the tactical impasse that the Daleks had found themselves at.
I mean I guess you COULD call them Cyborgs, especially if they're the Imperial Daleks who are explicitly partially cybernetic
I was gonna say exactly that. Though I'd say that they definitely are cyborgs since I've seen a few examples of them being "programmed".
I always interpreted them being regarded as Robots in a metaphorical sense. Hell, the books confirmed it as such. Davros was mighty pissed at The Emperor for letting the Daleks stay this way. The Daleks are supposed to be unnaturally detached in their sociopathic thinking. It can easily be misconstrued as robotic. That said, I don't have an answer for the wad of gum scene that Tom Baker picked up.
Given that 'robot' originates from the Czech/Slavic word for slave worker, and the Daleks in turn have become slaves to their own technology.
So it makes sense in a way.
I just see it as a time when the Daleks experimented on lower ranking units to see how effective it would be if they let their casing’s internal computer take full control.
Terry Nations Script for Destiny of the Daleks was almost entirely rewritten by Douglas Adams, so I think he was the reason the Daleks are often seen as robots. Course many including myself know better.
The explanation that just this faction of Daleks are robots is really the best way to explain why they’re out of character (being so loyal & obedient to Davros, lack of cunning, etc)
Daleks sometimes try to emulate their enemies to defeat them. It's possible they created these "robots" as a way to understand and better fight the Movellans. Robot Daleks could at least bring them to a standstill if not beat them.
Another explanation is that the Daleks could have been completely robotic despite having organic bits, just like the Cybermen. One of the Dalek factions in "Remembrance" had cybernetic bits. It is possible that the Daleks were basically robots at this point in time. (Maybe a desire to return to an organic form contributed to their civil war.)
Person: Daleks are robots.
Me: No
Person: But Destiny of The-
Me: *No.*
Jon Pertwee was one of my favourite Doctors, I distinctly remember his story Death to the Daleks, where they land on the planet Exxilon with a sentient city that drains power from surrounding sources, preventing the TARDIS and the daleks' weapons from working. Sarah Jane asks the Doctor how such robots can move at all; he explains "They're only half-robot, inside each of those shells is a lump of hate," and that they move by psycho-kinetic power
They are mutants controling Robots❤❤❤❤
I tend to go with the idea that the Daleks were metaphorically robots, or were cyborged to be plugged into the battle computers. Mind you, watching the video I found myself looking at the Daleks and wondering if the peg/spike at the top-center of the domes appeared in any previous or subsequent story, and if there's an interesting in-universe function for it, possibly relating to these Daleks being more robotic.
I think it was more they trusted the battle computers and their internal computers so much that they started to think like computers. It may also link to when Davros made them more logical after talking to the Doctor. Then later on he says in Ressurection that was a mistake and he will return their instincts and understanding of manipulating emotions. As we later see in the new series.
Keep in mind that the definition of "Robot" is a bit fluid. A robot is not necessarily something that acts autonomously. You could very much argue that the Dalek battle armor itself is a robot that is controlled by the Dalek mutant inside. Whether or not that's what Terry Nation had in mind though is another story.
"Are Daleks robots"
That feels like a philosophy question at times
You know what Terry Nation was thinking of when he decided to make the Daleks robotic in Destiny?
His pay cheque.
My interpretation was always that these ones were effectively robots instead of actual ones, but nevertheless would only attack if ordered to do so by their battle computers (hence Davros' line about computerised battle fleets) - and hearing that Terrance Dicks did too, well that's good enough for me!
"written by the Daleks creator"
Douglas Adams, "well yes but actually no"
imagine how exciting to a child fan of the show it was to have a new Dalek story in 5 years, VCRs were only just becomong a thing
I find the concept fun if not a little ridiculous. Perhaps we could see it revisited.
This wild and interesting, funny enough the tabletop rpg refers to Daleks (by the mechanics of the game) as cyborgs because of their heavy dependency on their travel machines. As for the robot confusion, I think it might've just been the showrunner wanting them to fit into his story idea, it wouldn't be the first time a showrunner has played fast and loose with continuity in a tv show for the sake of their vision for episodes, and this is even beyond Dr Who in that regards.
In terms of drama, I think Daleks are scariest when you don't really know what they are or what's in them. I appreciate that fans need SOME answers and enjoy understanding how things are supposed to work in the show. But I think the more the show can do to up the mystery, the better. So I like that their creator gave us something of a paradox here.
I hate that they showed the creature inside a Dalek. To me, that's like telling us the Doctor's real name! Since they are the Doctor's true nemesis, I think they should be almost as mysterious as him. If I'd written the Daleks, I wouldn't have touched their origin planet or backstory for decades, keeping everything a mystery :D
I never thought of the Daleks as robots.
I thought it was the Movelian and Dalek strategy computers that were stalemated.
Reminds me of how the Transformers are classified as robots. But then some actually contain organic components in their makeup. 🤔
I remember when I was a kid, back when the Paradigm Daleks first appeared on screen, I thought the red one (the Dalek Drone), was in fact a robotic dalek, on account of it being called a drone (akin to autonomous vehicles) and how it was described as the soldier of the Paradigm ranks, which seemed like a role that a near-extinct species wouldn't bestow on one of their own kind. I thought that since the Paradigm was supposedly just the 5 daleks, they didn't have any other Progenitors on hand and had to bolster their numbers by using automated dalek casings as frontline soldiers.
It wasn't until a few years later, after the Paradigm got sidelined, that I randomly realised that the "Drone" title was just what standard daleks were called anyways, and was probably just a name inspired by drone bees/ants.
Another great video keep them coming this alongside your dalek figure customs keeps bringing me back
My theory is that so few Daleks were made before the Doctor destroyed the incubator room that the Daleks had no choice but to become a largely robotic species with a handful of biological leaders.
Consider this, the Daleks were created by Davros and twenty or so were made and sent to destroy the Thals and upon their return the production line starts and more are made but how many are completed before the Doctor destroys the incubator room? And how advanced were these first Daleks without their creator there to make more Dalek mutants? Could they rebuild the incubator room and create more Dalek mutants from the remains of the Kaleds they had killed in the bunker etc or were they stuck without any way to procreate biologically until they experimented more themselves and learned how to do it? But to create more "empty" Dalek casings run by a simple computer program that would follow orders would be relatively simple in comparison and we know that Davros said himself that part of the production line was completely automated. So perhaps the existing few dozen organic Daleks were an elite and commanded the robotic Daleks until they found a way to reproduce organically and create more biological Daleks. Once this was done perhaps then the Movellans realised completely organic "free thinking" Daleks would out match their purely robotic species but by becoming more organic it gave the Daleks a weakness they could exploit ans created their virus as a biological weapon which ultimately decimated the Daleks.
My head canon is that they're meant to bolster Dalek ranks in time of peril, example: Movellan virus
I think this could have some really good story potential. If the Daleks ran out of the original DNA and they did not want to mutate from other beings because they would deem that as impure they would begin to replace themselves with computers I think if low on resources for mutations they will begin to replace themselves with computers however the higher-ups in command will always be mutants
i do like the idea these daleks are a faction and possibly wiped out by the other daleks
i was under the impression, in the case of these Daleks, most of them were like Drones - with the exception being the "Genesis" Dalek which was probably the only organic one of the bunch.
The actual Daleks were on strike, hence why I sent robotic drones to rescue the old git
Interesting to see footage from the fan version of "Power of the Daleks" here.
Sidenote: I remember when "Dalek" and "Bad Wolf"/"Parting of the Ways" aired in 2005, fans on Outpost Gallifrey critcised the then-new design, claiming it was TOO robotic, and that RTD obviously didn't understand the Daleks and Doctor Who. I imagine those same fans still exist, in some lonely corner of the Internet.
Doctor Who fans will always criticise the newest iteration, it's an essential part of the fandom's ecosystem
And now (obnoxious) RTD fanatics are clamouring for his era to return.
The irony.
@@minicle426 it's exactly the same way that fans hated Murray Gold's music in Series 1 -- Davies, in "The Writer's Tale," talks of how Gold was so shaken by criticism of his take of the theme tune that he suggested he step down, only for Davies to insist he stay on -- and now, perhaps those same fans, are cheering Gold's return.
It's for reasons like that, that I generally ignore the fandom, even on the occasions I happen to agree with certain criticisms.
I go with a squad of robotic drones under the command of one living Dalek, the one that stays behind with Davros.
Here's a question - How big on the inside is the time travel machine the daleks have in The Chase?
i think that more a comparison on how the daleks think, rather then them being machines, both relying on battle computers and not even considering trying UN-logical maneuvers which would break the status quo, two races one machine and one mutant in a tank both lacking any creativity, it why later individual special dalek are allowed to exists to prevent a situation like the movelian-dalek war, such as the cult of skaro, dalek time strategist etc
One other explanation. The novel "War of the Daleks" states that the movelans we're actually Dalek creations and that the entire war was a trick to prevent the destruction of Skaro. It would make sense then that the Daleks in that war would be robots.
Honestly, i never thought to hard about it, but i'm willing to believe they were robots for the story, but maybe had some background reasoning, mayhaps the daleks were losing troops due to the virus, and once deemed safe enough they activated homing mechanisms they built into the casings so that they can limit using up resources on new casings, but eventually their numbers dwindled to a point where they couldn't sustain the war so decided to add artificial intelligence to the existing undamaged casings, obviously programmed to act and function almost identically to regular daleks, but with a higher logic factor built in, they truly had no fear, the only emotion was a slight bit of anger towards the doctor specifically. once complete and activated the first fleet started assessing the situation, and put forward all daleks on the front line of this specific war were to be automated as to limit casualties, and considering the homing automation already in place, it could mean that the daleks could try and mutate themselves to be more resilient to the virus while still staying "pure" as they seem to like to be. roll on say 50 years, the war is at a stalemate, so its decided to find and rescue davros to end the stalemate, because these logic driven machines lack the imagination to form an unorthodox strategy that could give them the upper hand.
TL;DR: daleks made their casings robots to win a war and limit casualties with AI and logic, it went wrong so send for davros to be illogical to give the upper hand
Much of the Dalek nature seems to come from the casing and its computers, despite the blobs being genetically engineered psychopaths. This is supported partially in Genesis (the suggestion that the machine limits their actions in some way, I'll have to rewatch it again, memory is foggy) and definitely when Clara tried to talk to the Doctor after Missy stuffed her into a casing.
With all that said, it is then possible that the casing can function like a self driving car/tank after the creature has died, for whatever reason, maybe a final order from the Dalek within. That then opens up the possibility that the movelan virus was developed from something that had already devastated the Dalek population. Who knows?
Can't be. Because in the scene where the leader Dalek was interorgating Romana with the line; Answer! Answer! ANSWER!!
That Dalek was showing emotion; annoyanc, anger. To which a robot can't show. I think the concept is good. After all, in Genesis, the 4th Doctor destroyed the incubator room of Dalek mutants. As the Doctor would say he "Had little help from a Dalek." So with the incubator room destroyed it would seem logical to make Dalek casings with an AI controling the unit since the original Dalek in Genesis 'killed' Davros so he was unable to organise more. And even so, I would say that the Dalek mutants are robot-like seeing as they do what their on board computer in the casing tells them on certain situations. In Destinty, Davros says to the Doctor 'When the Dalek ship arrives, you WILL accompy us.' To me it could mean the original Daleks from Genesis could be on that ship and on Skaro could be the robotic battalion of Daleks. And the Movelan virus, it could still effect robotic Daleks as the virus could also attack Dalek armor casings and not just the mutant operator.
Good clips of the Power of the Daleks Remake in there.
I never saw the Daleks as Robots or Cyborgs but as Alien Mutants instead battle tanks.
In a sense, they are mecha. 🤔
I always thought in destiny of the daleks the daleks had made them selves totally dependent on there battle computers that they no longer had any strategic thinking and were pretty much machines with creatures inside them that just followed the programming of there battle computers (it’s a very stupid idea to have the daleks as robots and it just makes them ssoooo boring)
Dispite that when I first watched Destiny Of The Daleks, I never thought of it that the Daleks are "robots" until when I was watching some other Dalek story as well as The Five Doctors and realized that they are not robots which they are mutant Kaled machine creatures that were created by Davros on the planet Skaro and these Daleks in Destiny were send to Skaro by the Supreme Dalek in order to understand the robot ways of the Movellans by removing some organic parts with the help from Davros so they can return to their fleets and win the war against the Movellans and Terry Nation might have changed the Daleks in a different way in this Dalek story.
Even though that when Davros was created the Imperial Daleks on Necros and then the civil war between two Dalek faction the Imperial Daleks were equipped with the cybernetic parts within their systems at that time.
You’ve done the Dalek Robomen Duplicate Troopers and Puppets but what about the Dalek humans
Can you make a video about Berserker dalek or dalek Hunter-Killers form the war doctor stories pls 🙏
I can’t second guess Terry Nation’s intentions or if it was Douglas Adams’ idea to make them robots.
But if I had to guess, it was probably for the convenience of the story.
As for a lore standpoint, I’m inclined to the Terrence Dicks take, their being as good as robots.
This robot issue is part of why I don’t think much of Destiny, part of what makes the Daleks interesting is that they’re not just robots, robots can be very boring.
I also think the humour in Destiny contributed a lot to the comedic tropes associated with the Daleks and cementing their reputation as a powerful enemy in name only.
nation just fucked up. I think after his mild telling off before he wrote genesis he tried to be creative again and wrote himself into a corner making the daleks match the movellans so the war would be stuck in a stalemate and davros would be needed
The daleks are not robots they alien species of planet skaro in the original series of doctor who I think looks like the mysterons from classic captain scarlet and mysterons from classic series
Yeah, and by the way, I don’t know if the Mysterons had any physical form.
The story was changed mostly by Douglas Adams
I blame Douglas Adams for possibly re-editing the story to state the Daleks as robots cause I find it hard to believe that Terry Nation is the one who made them out to be robots after 12 years of him describing the Daleks as genetically mutated aliens inside machines. Im sure even he is not dumb enough to just blow that out of the water
i always reason they are still cyborgs but have been subsumed by their mechanical side
‘Destiny’ seems to keep going out of its way to contradict itself. The Doctor, on discovering the truth about the Movellans, pronounces with disgust that they’re “just another race of robots, no better than the Daleks…” as if there is something inherently contemptible about robotic beings. Yet at the beginning of the story we see him expressing tender concern for K9.
In another instance, when the Doctor threatens to blow himself up along with Davros, a Dalek retorts, “Self sacrifice illogical, therefore impossible!” But a little while later, a whole squad of Daleks, rigged out with explosives, set off on a suicide mission… I suppose it’s possible that the Dalek who debated with the Doctor was displaying unusual depths of insight; I.e. “Self sacrifice would make sense for me because I’m a genetically engineered clone serving the greater Dalek cause, but not for you because you’re totally an individualist…”
I read somewhere that Adams (who seems to have had form for riding roughshod over his collaborators- did such an extensive rewrite that there wasn’t much of Nation’s script left - and I always thought the notion of two space fleets locked in a logical impasse for centuries sounded like something straight out of ‘Hitchhikers’. It leaves an impression that some of the more glaring inconsistencies in the story may just have been Adams ‘avin’ a larf…
Short answer:No
Medium answer:Sort of
Long answer:No
I like to think they are drones with a dalek as the commder
No, they are cyborgs. Destiny was poorly written.
There's some clips I don't recognise. Could you provide some links?
It's an annoying pothole but I like to look it as either The Mutant DNA was breaking down or degrading or the Daleks here are purely robot variants, The Mutants stay safe in the Mothership whilst rebuilding their army.
Daleks are like humans in a way we use our phones to navigate us we use our phones to think for us we go to a data bank to search for information and we use our phones to communicate
I think it’s possible that the natural evolution of the Daleks is to ascend beyond biology because of their entire viewpoint of purity in the universe and trying to go backwards towards a more humanoid form resulted in failure. Biology creates issues for the Daleks and I think it would be very poetic if they were to come to the same conclusion as Rassilon that their ultimate form would be as a being of consciousness that controlled the travel machine. Then their weaknesses would be down to the apparatus that can be fixed rather than risking their own biological purity.
However the return serve argument is that the entire point of the Daleks is that they believe they are the ultimate beings in whatever form they take and despite being knowing to have evolved over the years via various means, they have never forced themselves to evolve by-and-large and those singular examples of attempts have resulted in them being executed. It would have to be a unanimous consensus among the entire species as such a notion could result in another Civil War
Hey man wheres the footage of the grey looking time war daleks from like at 3:30? If it's from a fan animation it looks cool af
A fan film recreation of Power of the Daleks
@@unimpressedlink2507 ayy thanks 👑👑
Next do history of the character options dalek merchandise
🐙
It does sort of mess canon
I think its just a phrasing problem. Dont they find dalek flesh at the start of the episode? I think they just call them robots because this episode focuses mostly on the dalek battle computer, which could be described as a robot.
Im sure daleks have targeting systems and all kinds of robotic features that could result in someone mistaking them for robots too.
The Doctor finds a Kaled mutant and says "of course! The Daleks were originally organic lifeforms"
Davros also calls the Movellans "another race of robots", referring also to the Daleks
@@dalekbumps Yeah I Agree with Terrance, I always thought that like cybermen, here they are so reliant on logic they may as well be robots, just with an organic mind, and that after destiny, they improved themselves based on what they learned from Davros in a short space of time, knowing that their reliant on logic became a problem so they evolved to use more instinctual thought process and become less reliant on their battle computer. So yeah to me it was always just phrasing of the Daleks. I know the Doctor says "Originally" but that just seemed to me like they used to be more organic in their thought process and less reliant in logic. But that's just my thoughts, I know there are lots of people who would disagree with me.
@Dalek Bumps based on this dialogue you could guess that they have long since discarded organic daleks, but if so, why is there just flesh lying around??
@@consciouslyawarenervesyste5846 I've been asking that same question for years... Destiny of the Daleks is one of those episodes - if you switch your brain off, it's a really fun ride, but the moment you start questioning any of the logic in the story the whole thing falls apart
@@consciouslyawarenervesyste5846 was the jelly thing the doctor picked up ever mentioned as a kaled mutant? I'm not sure it was and people just assumed so it's easy to say it was just another form of life on Skaro
Calling the Daleks robots was a script and continuity error on the part of the writers. Let's not try to explain it as part of the storyline or some far fetched Dalek faction
Perhaps at some point in their history the Daleks' ideological obsession with purity had a brief coalescence with the notion of mechanical purity and the weakness of flesh, only for this belief to be later eschewed and replaced with racial and genetic purity for the majority of Dalek history.
This would mean that using, or not using, the "robot" Daleks in various scenarios could be put down to Dalek beliefs at the time, rather than what would make the most operational sense.
For example, at the height of robot Dalek usage, not using them for important missions could've been seen as admitting that Dalek robotics and AI had weaknesses and limitations. Similarly when biological purity reasserted itself as the primary Dalek concern, using robots may have been seen as weak and cowardly from the arrogant perspective of biological Daleks, something only an inferior species would rely upon.
The use of the term robots could juat be used as an epithet or insult to mock their lack of imagination.
I pick theory number 1 those daleks are from a splinter group
Not really
Terry Nation wasnt that good a writer. I know he is beloved and rghtfully so but he often wrote his scripts on the fly and with little thought of continuity.
They are not robots