I literally left the church, the Lord, whole thing after attending a Bill Gothard Seminar as a teenager. I was already living in an extremely Conservative Christian home, and as I sat in that stadium and heard ALL THOSE RULES, something inside me just snapped. I ended up wandering for 15 years, making a lot of mistakes, before I discovered the true love and grace of God. I am so glad Jinger was able to find a more grace filled Gospel.
what the devil intended for evil God Almighty can turn for good.. God works all things together.. Only God can do this... amazing grace..... May we all be healed in Jesus Christ in Jesus' name.. do it Lord for your Glory... Only you Lord for your glory! trample the works of the enemy... again and again and again.
@@barbourjohn I think it would make more sense if you understood my home of origin. Lovely Christian parents but trapped in a very rigid, fearful, religious spirit. No grace just an angry God who demanded we live under rules and more rules. No drinking, dancing, smoking, movies, bathing suits, etc. And then Bill Gothard trots our MORE rules, more regulations, more restrictions, etc and something inside me snapped.
I was very impressed with this. I also enjoyed seeing the nuances that while she was spiritualy abused, her parents seemed like they were easy to talk to and helpful. I especially was heartened that her father would encourage her to play ball.
My husband and I were introduced to Gothard’s Basic Life Principles through another couple at our church. We were young believers, young parents and seeking wisdom! We were excited during the first 1/2 of that seminar and then he brought up “ungodly melodies.” My father and my husband were both Classical Concert pianists and it became THAT clear that he was speaking extra-biblically : RIGHT there! Years later we moved from Miami to Washington state and while we were homeschooling, we met an entire Bill Gothard group…it was devastatingly heartbreaking. The women in the group accused me of wearing harlot colors - Red and Plum (I’m Cuban with dark skin and I was a Winter - none of them were. My modest dresses were deemed trashy because of the color. It was absolutely heartbreaking to watch the kids growing in such an unbiblical, unhealthy environment - it sounds like her parents were healthy but the group we met were all soooo unhealthy. Yet, as long as they obeyed the Gothard principles, they thought they were above reproach. 😣 …the Gothard principles seem to inherently avoid the one-another’s and there is absolutely no room for actual grace. Thank you Allie - big props for this interview. Ginger - Jesus relentlessly pursued you and rescued you. Praise his HOLY NAME!!! ♥️
Excellent comment! I do wish, though, that. Jinger or Ally had pointed out something critically important: the lack of formal education in this cult that keeps kids woefully ignorant of history, science, literature and pretty much everything academic. I would say that these IBLP folks have the equivalent of a middle school education. Just enough to keep them barefoot and pregnant 🤰
Fully agree! Heartbreaking is a good word for the whole thing. I can’t remember the year that I was introduced to those teachings, however as a singer I knew he was way OFF the music score! I never gave him any credit. Jinger is a brave young lady. And considering how her brother sexually abuse the sisters, I am so disappointed in so much regarding the family which was lead so far away from the true word of God. As a mother I can know the pain Jinger’s mother must have.
A group of these people began to attend a church attended by Billy Graham's daughter, She was doing a wonderful work , with lone mothers , (some of them were UNMARRIED MOTHERS !! Oh dear !! A couple from the group got themselves elected to the Eldership, and the wonderful work being done , was closed down at this couple's insistance. Marriages in this church broke down under pressure from this group. Even one of the Pastors and his wife slept in Separate bedrooms for a while. What was happening in this church made national TV, Then, as suddenly as they had arrived the couple and their friends said ""The Lord is leading us to go somewhere else."" I was on holiday with a cousin in St. Louis at the time, and was appalled by all the damage done to a thriving church , by a small group of extremists , who even quote scripture to ""show that they were right ""
I went to a church 40 years ago as a new Christian that paid for everyone to go to Bill Gothard seminars. I cherished all the "wisdom" from it as a young person craving guidance to follow God. It had a lot of good principles for character building and forgiveness. Fortunately it wasn't my only source of godly wisdom, and I became more established in the Bible directly over time. I was taught the umbrella of authority teaching in our church as well but because my parents weren't legally fixed to these teachings it didn't completely consume me but did control my young adult views until my 30s. However thank God the Lord and His word did set me free from man-made traditions that were around me then. Not until recent years have I learned more about Gothard's own sin and his cult like control over his ministry went hand in hand. I realize now that the umbrella of authority teaching is no where in scripture.
Oh Jinger, I sooo relate. I also was brought up with the Bill Gothard philosophies. I have struggled with intense anxiety about not reading the Bible enough, not praying enough, not loving God enough. Never enough. I am finding freedom now. Thank you so much for sharing.
I relate so much and I never really connected my anxiety growing up with Bill Gothard’s teachings but they were incredibly fear-based and harmful!! It all makes sense now…
Jinger is very classy. She doesn't speak badly of anyone when she speaks. She carries herself with such grace. God Bless her, Jeremy, and their kids. I feel bad for their family living in the shadow of Josh's shame. I know it's not her doing, but all of them are always questioned about it.
I wondered if some of her fear & shame as a child is because of what her brother did to her & other sisters. And not knowing how to handle that as a "Gothard Christian" she probably thought she did something wrong to make her brother act that way toward her. her "punishment" for a sin was her brothers inappropriate acts.
So glad for this testimony. We saw Ginger and her family at Grace Comm church in CA when we were taking our daughter back to TMU ...and smiled knowing they were getting solid teaching and on a great path of gospel truth! God bless you and thank you for sharing and exposing false teaching at the risk of alienatin yourself!
Free Indeed was the name of an Acapella quartet that used to come to our youth church camp every summer and i was obsessed with them! I had all of their cds and posters! I grew up Church of Christ. I hope that many of the things the Vuolos believe and preach now are in line with the teachings of the COC!!❤
I commend Jinger for telling her story, her walk in faith. Thanking God she discerned the true Gospel from her cult like raising. I am happy for her and her Pastor husband to have a "normal" life!
What an incredible interview!!! I think the world of Jinger and Jeremy and seek to emulate their character and unconditional love ❤️ I can’t wait to read her book ❣️
As a teenager I also had unreasonable fears of “being outside of God’s will” The book “Just Do Something” (Kevin DeYoung) was a huge game changer for me.
That book was life-changing for me. It broke the ungodly idea I had always held to that of a decision was right, I would have peace about it….sometimes the right choice IS NOT the easy one. Sometimes there is no right choice; just a choice.
Sounds like a book I have to read! My hubby has been telling me that he thinks it’s time for me to go back to work. It’s always been a dream of mine to be a Spec Ed teacher. My kids are older now, 19 and 17, plus my hubby is working fully from home so there is no reason why not to do it. But I’m so afraid of making the wrong decision and being out of Gods will, that I can’t take the first step.
How wonderful to see the radiant woman Jinger has become! I sensed such a different spirit about her and when she met her husband, I knew he was a man of God. I am 73, and was brought up in a Gothard-like church where I never felt worthy or loved by God. But after marrying at 18, I soon became a mother and was so confused I constantly contemplated suicide. Then I started actually going to Gothard's seminars and became even more confused. God finally got me into a church where I heard about GRACE, and I got free indeed. I just wanted to comment that I believe Jinger, like me, had a particularly tender heart toward God at a young age, which made us even more susceptible to rigid, legalistic teaching. Thank God we're free!
I was busy around my house yesterday and listened to your whole book on Audible. I grew up in a legalistic church. For the last 30 years I’ve been in a reformed PCA church. I still wrestle with some of the things I was taught as a child . Your book was like a breath of fresh air.
I'm curious to know more about her courtship story with her husband, especially in terms of theological differences. I would love to hear his perspective as well at the time and also more about her relationships with other people.
Thank you, Jinger. I'm so glad you wrote this book. Thank you for discussing your fear and guilt in relationship to God. It helped me understand so much.
I went to a seminar in the 80s when I was a teenager in Auckland with my parents, during a break I threw up in a pot plant not knowing I was already pregnant. All week I was guilt ridden throughout the seminar knowing I could not live up to the rules, lifestyle etc. Thankfully I couldn’t really be swept up with the teachings and had to face life’s challenges and accept my situation, disappointing parents etc, but eventually coming to the Lord many years later in his perfect timing. Life is the best teacher, not good principles because He knows who are his and will lead us back to Him. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Loved this interview! I also grew up under Bill Gothard’s teachings. It is so helpful for me to hear this story. My family was similar in that we knew Gothard’s teachings were not the actual Gospel. However, it was the “wise” way to structure and live life. And going against “wisdom” was rebellion. I am excited to read the book!
I grew up around people who judged my mom, my siblings, and myself for not joining Bill Gothard’s teachings. She went to one of his conferences and knew it wasn’t right. I’m so thankful she didn’t. She doesn’t know the Duggars are entangled in his teachings because she likes them but she wouldn’t approve of those teachings. One boy I met when I was in middle school I ran into many years later when we both worked in a Christian bookstore during our college years. I was trying to move out and live closer to college and my job and he was trying to get away from the harmful Gothard home environment he grew up in. He had to hide from his parents that we were going to live together (we weren’t dating each other - just friends) and we were trying to figure out how we were going to pull it off. It never happened because I ended up moving cities away and that’s a whole different story. I just remember him trying to escape that. Not sure if he ever stayed in the faith or not. We lost touch when I moved and I never saw him again. It’s good to see one Duggar after another starting to leave these harmful teachings. Seems it’s the ones that move away from their toxic parents that end up seeing the harm. It’s so hard because many lose the faith over it. I almost did when I got sucked into the NAR for over a decade.
hey girl- This interview with Jinger was so interesting. So happy that she now knows the truth and she can always go to God's word and he can help her and point her to the truth.
If you worry you doubt God. Based on verse in Bible. Can't quote chapter and verse but you can find this devotional in my utmost for His highest. This interview is powerful. Must get her book
loved this, their tactics were actually a very similar formula to the cult God helped me escape, the shincheonji. would love for this channel to discuss them as well, targeted to a lot of young christians on instagram, other social media, & even dating apps claiming to be a "free virutal bible study" and as someone longing for fellowship i fell into the trap. i had so much to unlearn and pray others would escape as well
I see Herman Bavinck's Reformed Dogmatics up there on the shelf! And the collected writings of John Newton! James Boice's commentaries too?! Some fine literature on the Vuolo's shelf! 🥰
What? A Dutch reformed book? I grew up dutch reformed - they did not teach salvation - talk about rules and laws you had to follow - hated it - was saved many years later thank goodness! It did give me my basic believe in God though...
@@rinskepv Me too. Thats why I am a bit confused about it. I grew up reformed had the same fear (still do sometimes) of God If I would do this or if I wouldn’t do this God would punish me And to this day I still struggle sometimes with that even though I know better. Really reformed churches dont preach the gospel. But still teaches that you have to do certain things and hopefully God will look favourible on you. It is not the Gospel.
@@Avi-yp7rx I'm confused too, was up late looking up what reformed meant and what they teach... it must be different from our upbringing because clearly she doesn't feel performance driven anymore. My old fashioned strict by the rules dutch mother became radically saved at home and began going to a Pentecostal church(I was out of the house by then) very strong woman in the faith - basically left her dutch friends etc behind - brave for back then!
@Rinske V I grew up in a “really Reformed” church and have belonged to one my entire life. I never had a list of rules to follow. Salvation is by faith alone through grace alone in Christ alone. The Holy Spirit breaks your heart of stone and leads you to everlasting life. We are still sinners, every day. But because God has saved us from eternal condemnation, I seek to walk with him in all aspects of my life. And I am secure in my salvation. The Dutch Reformed Church does have a lot of legalism built in. I know someone who left that church a few years ago and found true freedom, still within a Reformed context. My cousin has gotten involved in a legalistic Reformed church, and it’s so sad to see. As with every type of Christian belief system, there are those who are good and biblical and those who aren’t. Like Jinger said, it’s disentangling the biblical from the unbiblical.
I appreciated this interview. I went through a similar examining of what I was taught & became reformed. I remember enjoying their TLC show & not knowing much about their beliefs.
This is such a lovely interview. I’ve taken a small mental break from your content due to the dark nature of it, but I loved this message of hope and grace. I really look forward to reading her book.
Such an excellent interview! One clue….we know a tree by it’s fruit. If it induces fear (not godly fear) but anxiety and fear….it’s not of God. Satanic fruit. Perfect love (the love of Christ) casts out fear. What she speaks of is bondage. Praise God for His deliverance! 💗🙌🏻🙌🏻✝️
@Cynthia Fisher yes I don't disagree about the organization but her parents were young didn't know their Bible well enough to know that they were under unbiblical leadership and teaching.
@@ahandfuloffun I’ve been in a legalistic church and I did know the Bible. I don’t think it was because they didn’t know their Bible. The youth probably played into it, but his mom apparently was the one who got them into it. It has to do with being vulnerable and a rule follower.
Allie this was a really encouraging interview! Thank you. Would you be willing to share more details about your testimony? You mentioned being eight years old and saying the “sinners prayer” multiple times, all while wondering if you’re truly saved. I know you’re now reformed so I’m curious to learn more about your faith journey and when/how the Lord saved you.
Excellent interview. The only word I can think of is STRENGTH. How did Jinger have the strength to allow Jeremy into her life. How did she have the strength to open herself to look at a different world. The lord must have guided her toward it. We can only hope that all or some of her siblings, allow themselves to see another world where they are faithful Christians without the man made fears and misinformation. Perhaps even her parents can see another way.
I’m so proud of Jinger for her courage in sharing the dangerous errors of Gothard. He has done such spiritual damage and shipwrecked the faith of untold believers in Christ. I’ve personally been exposed to him for many years and seen how he has trapped my friends into his web of twisted scriptures and outright lunacy! God bless Jinger as she helps to set the captives free in Jesus Christ and his grace❤️
Ok so I was genuinely surprised and encouraged by what Jinger said. I was prepared to be on the defensive because a lot of people tend to swing from one side to the other, but this was very good stuff. And while I do think the respect kind of fear of God is good, the kind of fear that she talked about was all consuming. As a young girl, I went to one of Bill Gothards older conferences and I learned some good truths from it ad far as good advise to read and study God's word, etc. But I feel like in may other areas, he really went off the rail. I think we need to be so careful about this, because it can happen so quickly when a dynamic teacher comes along that we almost make a god out of him. I am so glad Jinger found freedom in Jesus!
I love Allie. She is like a kinder, gentler version of Candace Owens, tackling controversial issues boldly without fear of what others think of our Christian views.
Sometimes destruction happens, but that adversity helps strengthen your faith. The devil attacks his toughest soldiers, but Christ will love you through it
All this talk about fear resonates with me growing up in a German speaking,Mennonite church. I was so afraid,listening to preachers who shouted about damnation and hell. My parents were very strict.What helped was Sunday school where the gentle ladies taught us about a loving God. I struggled most of my life about measuring up to God. I’m 74 now. One thing I was taught and my husband really reenforced that self esteem was just selfishness and self love. It hurt my oldest child terribly as she also has a learning disability. She was bullied ,,,,,,,but the pastors child was a queen bee,,,,,she would even claim to have seizures when her hormones went into hyper overdrive. Anything to get a boys attention. She needed psychiatric care, and perhaps a firmer father. Her father would be preaching away and never noticed how her boyfriend played with the back of her bra. My husband was an usher and he DID notice but when my husband told him the truth he choose not to listen. Fast forward 30 years later after 2 church splits the lovely little VM church in the dale burned down just three weeks ago. It’s so sad. They actually excommunicated us and handed us over to Satan for the destruction of our flesh because they falsely accused an elder of child abuse. We dared to go visit the accused,who were Shantymen missionaries, (who ministered along North Americas longest highway and in logging and oil patch camps)No one was allowed to ask questions and complete obedience was required. We have been shunned for 30 years and yes it DEVASTATED us. People are so gullible. It’s like mass psychosis. (That pandemic was a world wide psychosis as well.Real scientists and doctors were destroyed by corrupt leaders.)People with leadership qualities are usually gifted and charming but often are narcissistic as well, are proud of “being humble” and don’t like accountability. I do think Bill Gothards teachings had good in them at first but it caused people who wanted the best for their families to become narrow minded and over zealous. Some people seem to have benefitted from his strict views because they were likely on the fence spiritually and had a narrow minded upbringing too. But if you took a shy sheltered girl whose parents were already strict it could cause them a LOT of fear. If you took a young insecure boy he could develop into a RIGID man. Or they become rebellious. Or out of curiosity get sucked into porn these days. Iam glad Jill did not speak directly of her family. I think JB and M have also suffered tremendously,as any Christian parents do when one of their children goes astray and instead of being judgemental we should pray for legalistic families. As far as churches go,,,,yes I could write a book. One big red flag I have is WATCH OUT when a group starts to gang up on someone because they don’t give the leadership complete obedience. Our allegiance is to Christ Jesus. If your uncomfortable in a church,,,,,leave. If there is a lot of gossip have the courage to call it out or just leave. This goes for all churches. There is far FAR too much glorifying of those in leadership. They too need accountability. I have no idea what happened to Bill Gothard except that he had qualities of leadership that he took to a rather strict level. I heard that he stopped doing seminars near Seattle and Vancouver BC when his brother divorced. Surely must be well into retirement by now. I can see how some women likely adored him. I have seen women falling for their pastors over the years. Then the pastors taste the “apple”. The devil is alive and well and l can’t warn young women enough. That’s right ladies. After marriage you are unavailable. Flirty girls are the devils delight. Set boundaries guys‼️
I've never heard of Bill Gothard, but I've certainly heard of his teachings. I went to a private "baptist academy" for middle school and they taught everything he did. It really messed me up; I never actually turned away from God, but I gave up on myself because I thought I could never be good enough, I could never follow all those rules and do all the stuff He required of me. I was terrified of God. That and purity culture in my early teens/early 2000s, and I ended up hating myself, being ashamed of my body, and seeing myself as worthless...they would go on and on about how women were "precious jewels" but in reality women were less than nothing. I'm in my 30s now and I'm undoing the damage it did, with help from my current church. It is so good hearing someone speak up about this. I definitely want to buy her book.
Learning balance in all areas of life is a life long journey. I think those seasons weren’t necessarily a bad thing in her life, they were just part of her journey. So thankful she’s growing in her understanding of a life of communion with our living heavenly Father
In my early thirties I became very disenchanted with and left "the Church" and Religion in general because of so much hypocrisy, rules and fear-based teaching. So basically I just deconstructed, but never lost my belief in God. Thirty plus years and many TH-cam videos later, I FINALLY understand the LOVE of God, but now am trying to actually disentangle my prior belief system to develop the relationship I always should have had with Him. It is definitely a process!
"So much grace missing"....I wonder how many times they would sing "Amazing Grace" as she grew up and never believed what they were singing? I am so glad she has found it now and truly feels it!
My husband and his family were deep into bill gothards ATI in the 90's. His parents still espouse his teachings and don't believe anything about the sexual misconduct. So sad and so destructive. His parents banned Christian music like Steve Green and so they were only allowed to listen to classical music and hymns at church. His parents were even part of a church split over Gothards teachings.
Wow, what a testimony Jinger. God is using you mightily!!!!! I love your show and your parents and believe they had your best intentions in their heart but like so many of us they believed the lies of satan where he starts with God's truths but twists them like an enemy of God does. Satan is the prince of lies and it is clear how he deceived your well-meaning parents! I pray that the truth that God has revealed to you will reach the ears of the rest of your beautiful family and they will open their heart and eyes to that life-changing TRUTH! Jesus is truth He is love and His grace is incomprehensible. May your message reach the heart of so many, I pray in the heart-changing name of JESUS!
I have an older brother, who went to a Gothard seminar when he was in his late teens. He smelled the legalism right away, even though he had.only been a believer couple of years. I went to a seminar, at the paid invitation of a good friend, when I was in my mid 20's. Although there was some good teaching there. There was much legalism, and I was put off by Bill's dogmatic stand on music; even Christian music. I was particularly scandalized, though, when I read about some of the corruption that was exposed in the ministry in recent years. I had no idea! It's sad; so sad! I'm Pro-Life, and Conservative, but the extremes that Bill Gothard has taught have done much damage.
My coworker grew up with the Duggars and her family were friends with the Duggars. She is now a lesbian and is attempting to go by he/them pronouns. It's interesting to see how growing up in this environment can pull you closer to God for some, and push you away from God for others.
God is using Jinger in a mighty big way! Without even realizing it, her father Jim bob started the ball rolling on bringing her to the truth of God’s word! It was brilliant, and that’s our God!!! Jinger is so sweet and classy. She spoke the truth and still gave honor to her parents. I pray that the rest of the family finds their way to the truth. When Jesus said it is finished, He meant it!! It’s all grace! I relate to Paul when he said, oh wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death? We are all wretched and sin everyday, and God’s word tells us that a man who thinks otherwise is a liar, and he calls God a liar. We couldn’t possibly repent for every sin, when the Lord Jesus saved me, He saved and forgave me from my past, present, and future sins at once. There is pleasure in sin for a season, but the true believer will come back to Him, and Jinger is so right! Once you are saved you will be miserable to stay in your sin. Raise up a child in the way that it shall go and when it is old it will not depart from it🙏👍❤️! God bless you Jinger, I’m so proud of you🙌🙌🙌❤️❤️❤️🥰
25 years ago my homeschool group had a number of couples who bought into the Gothard teaching. They had as many kids as possible, wore very conservative clothes and the boys had short hair. We had already decided to complete our family with 3 kids weren't going to change that with reversal surgery. We could see a lot of legalism even though most of the people were very sweet. Today my daughter homeschools her 3 and resists any form of Christianity that is legalistic. Thankful for God's leading in this. Gothard teaches against adoption. When I told one of the women I wanted to adopt she told me that would be a big mistake. Now I would say, "I'm sorry you feel that way because I'm adopted. (Into Jesus' family!)"
I find it interesting that these families were obviously trying to apply biblical principles to their lives and you find that legalistic. Women wearing conservative clothes and only dresses and skirts is biblical, men having short hair is biblical, couples being fruitful and desiring to have a big family is biblical. I do think these are very personal principles and not something that should be pushed to those around you, I think the pulpit is a good place to teach those things and obviously within your own family.
@@wendymtzc I must have have missed something! Did Jesus have short hair? Paul says in 1 Cor. that it is better to not marry. That kind of squashes the "be fruitful and multiply" idea. We should not dress like the opposite sex in our culture because we don't want to promote the trans movement. But telling me not to adopt a child was the most disturbing thing in the Gothard movement. Not at all Scriptural. I can tell you have a spirit that is sensitive to the Holy Spirit. Live for Jesus, sister! Your light is shining bright. 🙂
This explains why Jana hasn't left the compound. :-/ Not under the umbrella of authority. I hope all Jinger's siblings come to know the true freedom of the gospel.
Jinger is brave for speaking out! If Christians would just realize that Christ did it all on the cross. If we believe the gospel which is the death , burial and resurrection we are saved. He paid for our sins, we just need to accept it and believe it. We don’t have to keep confessing our sins. They are already forgiven.
I grew up around a lot of these teachings. Thankfully my dad refused to be part of the patriarchal movement. I was the oldest of ten kids and had so many people try to convince me to watch the Duggar show. But I hated these parents selling their family’s daily life for profit. It made me furious then as 1 of 10 who was already gawked at by people in public for being a “modest” homeschooled large family.
We used the ATIA homeschool curriculum- we didn’t go “ nuts” with it- you must make choices for your own family based on your religious understanding- I like Bill Gothard- I believe he is honest. He is just a person , he makes mistake like humans do, he isn’t God.
I am wondering if Jinger being molested by her brother didn’t have anything to do with her anxiety and fear. That happened around the same time as the show starting on TLC.
I'm a first time viewer and am super surprised at how many ads you have! While I don't have a problem with earning a living, but the way you add advertisements within your own videos - and in addition to the YT ads, affects not only the continuity of your presentation, but more importantly, your reputation.
I don’t see much of a difference between deconstruction and disentanglement, I think they’re just different ways of describing what’s needed to take place within much of the church today. Some will need to deconstruct, while others will have to disentangle. Many of us are “losing our religion” to find Jesus..again. I have had to deconstruct/tear down the old frameworks- things other people framed up for me (and a lot of them were lies!), in order to overcome years of religion’s abuse. It’s taken some time to heal, but returning to the Truth of who Jesus is, and remembering who I am in Him has been life changing. “We can demolish every deceptive fantasy that opposes God and break through every arrogant attitude that is raised up in defiance of the true knowledge of God. We capture like prisoners of war, every thought and insist that it bow in obedience to the Anointed One”. -2 Corinthians 10:5 ❤📖 I’m remembering an old song, “If I had a hammer.. I’d hammer out justice …and freedom” Thanks, Gals, for this great conversation! Keep shining!
The best part about this interview is that she answers questions thoroughly without dragging people's names through the mud. She still honors her parents for being loving and God-fearing and God honoring and I think we could all learn something from that.
@@stevesmith1493 we already knew that. Her graciousness is a great example of God's free, undeserved grace toward us, because we are wrong, too....born into sin. Wrong from the beginning and doing wrong knowingly and unknowingly until we die, friend. God doesn't look at us and throw us away. You should take those same pointing fingers and lift them to God in gratitude for His mercy toward you, then put them together with the other 8 fingers and pray for them.
I think we can all find ways, daily, that God blesses us. But the teachings really tore apart their family. I feel for them. Their oldest son is in jail and…… they’ve been through a lot. Monetary blessings are not always the most important.
@@francinesanchez5402 yeah, In my sure that looking back they wouldn't say it was worth it. Definitely need to pray for all of them. There's a ton of healing that they will need that only God can provide. Not to mention the other people still deceived in that teaching.
But think about it, every person who is claiming to preach the “truth” is using the Bible to say that’s what he is doing. That’s why Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) is not the truth. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you are you’re own authority to interpret scripture. You need a church and a magisterium to do it so you are not led astray by evil men and “itchy ears” This is the reason you have thousands of Protestant Denominations who all claim to be teaching from the same Bible. Yet you only have one Catholic Church, which dates back to the Apostles. Protestants have only been around for 500 years. Something to think about 💁🏼♀️
@@kaykay1076 The Holy Spirit is not only our comforter, sent after JESUS' assension to heaven, but John 14:26 , John 16:1, and other passages, show how He would lead us into understanding the truth in GOD'S word as well. There is nothing wrong with others helping us, along the journey of understanding GOD'S word. However, He has promised to show us if we ask. We need to pray to Him, by faith, to open our understanding. Studying GOD'S word is like searching for treasures (Proverbs 2:3-8). It's line upon line (Isaiah 28:10-13) Understanding of principles and GOD's prophecies is to study the harmonious whole in both the old and new testaments. May GOD continue to lead us on that narrow path because there is only one way, not the broad way "anyway goes" to heaven ( Matthew 7:13-14)🙏
@@kaykay1076 Thanks for saying what I wanted to say but was afraid I couldn't say it as gently as you did. I am a convert to Catholicism. I love my evangelical friends..and the Duggars...and believe their faith is sincere, but it's painful to watch sheep wandering. I know many ignorant Catholics wander too. Praying for all souls today!
@@andreawally4488 All true but there are two lungs to divine revelation, scripture and tradition. How did the earliest disciples who witnessed Jesus interpret scripture? What has the Church always taught about about a given principle or doctrine? We can guard ourselves by getting our doctrine and practice from the Church and not a single individual, e.g. Bill Gothard.
@@kaykay1076 THE CHURCH OF CHRIST became because of JESUS CHRIST, and only JESUS CHRIST!!! Catholics follow rules & law, THE CHURCH OF CHRIST FOLLOWS GOD, JESUS, THE HOLY SPIRIT, & THE BIBLE, which is literally GODS WORD!!!
What I love about Jinger's story here is that it shows for true believers, nothing can snatch them (us) out of the father's hand. Many in her shoes would throw the whole of Christianity away. But she persisted and sorted out the false from the true.
I am a member of the lds church and I also have never felt the fear of having to strictly adhere to rules and guidelines. I have felt love and grace and an understanding we are human and make mistakes. It makes me sad that people had a fear based experience with mormonism because that is not the core of the teachings. I think it was culturally perpetuated. I'm glad you found a place where you don't feel that because God is love, forgiveness and grace.
I come from a very legalistic baptist background. The spirit of religion is fully aware in there. My mother told me god would break my legs if I wore high heals. I wore shorts in my house, so I was as asking to get raped. That kind of thing. So, I totally get what’s being said here. I FLED from God, and only came back 3 years ago...and I'm 39. I love Jesus and thr grace he's given us.
I grew up in the Gothard ministry, and also a cult in our church, and I worked closely with Bill at his Headquarters from 1988-1994. The Lord has also helped me untangle those deeply embedded beliefs that actually damaged my relationship with Jesus
@@IWantToMature85 Right it's good to define this. It's a lie to say Christianity has no rules or disciplines. Historically when Christians formed communities under a set of rules, (e.g. the Rule of Bennedict), people joined voluntarily and agreed to them. The leader was approved and ordained by Church authority and did not take this role upon himself or impose his own ideas or Bible interpretations on others.
I first went to a Gothard Basic seminar, correctly called Institute in Basic Life Principles, when I was a rebellious teen. His teaching helped me see my parents in a different light, and harmony was restored to our home. From that point on, my parents, sister and I went to the seminars yearly and looked forward to them with anticipation. God used Bill Gothard's ministry to turn my life around. I've been happily married for 30 years because of principles I learned at that seminar! We didn't follow all the recommendations that are available through the home schooling arm of the ministry. That is a separate organization called ATI, or Advanced Training Institute. We know many families who used those materials and liked them. It's ridiculous to just hear of one person's experience and unique home situation and see the entire ministry through that person's experiences!!!
A friend paid for my husband and I to attend a Bill Gothard seminar when we were newlyweds in 1983. We walked out about halfway through the first session… the legalism was outrageous; he went so far as to list specific (normal) sexual activities within marriage and condemn them and was very condemning toward parents. Come to find out, he himself was unmarried with no children!! Yes, a real expert! I’m so glad we had the discernment to walk out
I was invited by an older Christian woman to attend one of Gothard’s conferences years ago. I was shocked by his low view of women. Wives were to place their husband before God and obey their husband even if what their husband asked them to do was immoral. Her husband’s will always was primary. Women were promised God’s blessing if they obeyed their husband no matter what. A woman gave her testimony of how she was asked by her husband to participate in doing something she knew to be wrong. But she obeyed her husband and believed that God blessed her for her “obedience” ignoring her own knowledge of right and wrong from the Bible.
My parents went to those seminars too in the 80s at least twice. All of these false teachings about authority and submission really messed up their marriage because my dad was a controlling narcissist and it fed into his need for power, adoration and control. My poor mother couldn’t voice her opinion or disagreement with anything he said or did without creating a huge argument and lots of hard feelings and bitterness between them. I now understand how bad the cultish teachings of Bill Gothard were for our family!
We were introduced to Gothard through our church friends. Many mature Christians were misled by Gothard. We also went to several seminars, and we were part of his home school program. We didn’t strictly adhere to all that was taught, and we left when the program seemed too controlling. Later we learned about really disgusting, abusive, and even more controlling things that were being reported, as taking place, within the organization. The lesson we learned is to be extremely, careful about the teaching that you allow yourself to sit under, and constantly be checking, to make sure, that what you are currently being taught lines up with scripture. Be Bereans!
A mature Christian would have discernment not to believe Bill Gathered. Just because someone’s been a believer for years doesn’t mean they are mature in the faith . If you don’t study the Bible and understand it and be a believer for years makes you a baby Christian . Many believers don’t study . The Bible says to medicate on the word day and night .
An example that even mature Christians can be misled is that Elizabeth Elliot was one of the speakers, at one of Gothard’s homeschool conferences, that I attended. In our modern times, Elizabeth Elliot was an example of a very, mature believer. I have the utmost respect for Elizabeth Elliot. I doubt that she would have had anything to do with the Gothard organization, had she known what was actually going on behind the scenes. Sometimes a teacher gains respect, as a very sound biblical teacher, and later in their ministry they become swayed off the path. This may be the case with Gothard. No human is infallible, no matter how mature they are, in Christ, because we live in a fallen world. Sanctification is an on going process, throughout our lives. Satan is the father of lies, and he does his most deceptive work, when he deals is partial truths. Our job is follow the mandate given to us by Jesus, and by Paul, which is to be constantly aware that false teachers, will arise among the flock. Again I say, we must be “Bereans”!
I hope that Jim Bob and Michelle can understand what their children, and Jinger in particular, went through trying to live up to that impossible standard and have some empathy for the younger ones that are still at home.
It’s very telling they have not come out and offered support to Jinger as she tells her story. Jinger extended so much grace to them and from them…crickets. Do better Jim Bob snd Michele.
@@cindykoerner6719 actually they are supportive of her choices, from what she has said. They may not be perfect but at least they love their children even while disagreeing with them.
Why would Jinger leave though? Look at how she is dressed. Apostolic Pentecostals dress their own way. She's appearing on national TV and appearing like those of the world. This makes it seems like she wanted to fit in and be like the majority. Why go on GMA? That program favors the left in their political coverage. If she was spreading the word of God, they wouldn't have her on their show. She wasn't doing this when TLC was still paying her.
So proud of her! Hope to hear more disentanglement stories rather than deconstruction stories. I also love how intentional she was about honoring her parents while sharing her experience.
This young woman is so gracious when speaking about her parents, as well as Bill Gothard. Her maturity is admirable and love for the Lord shines as a light in a dark place.
@@IWantToMature85 She hasn't called her family a cult. She has called Gothard's IBLP cult-like, which it is. So many young people have been harmed by well-meaning parents following his extra-biblical rules (there's nothing in the Bible requiring women to wear their hair long and curly, adult children being required to live with their parents until they are married, drums being used to summon demons, and that there is an "umbrella of authority" that everyone must remain under or bad things will happen. Bill Gothard taught all of those things and many much more harmful things.) Jim Bob and Michelle raised their children in a fear-based religion and that's a sad shame. Even so, Jinger has professed her love for them and has NOT criticized them directly.
@@IWantToMature85 Just like your employer has a dress code, but your employer isn't a cult. There are several characteristics that many experts agree on that make a group cult-like: 1. A charismatic leader that claims to have knowledge or a system that no one else possesses and who will often not tolerate questions or doubts. 2. Isolation and fear of non-members of the group. 3. The group has a measure of control over personal actions like dress, eating and food habits, marriage decisions, where you can live, and with whom you can associate. 4. The claim that God or a higher authority dictated or endorses the group. 5. You may be punished or shunned if you decide to leave the group. There are more. Bill Gothard's IBLP checks a lot of those boxes in total or in part. I am a devout Christian and yes my denomination has some expectations for behaviors (such as treating each other like Jesus would). However, we are all free to question and discuss doctrine, we make free choices about whether to work, how to dress, with whom to associate, and my church would never try to dictate whether or not you use birth control, homeschool or whether a woman works outside of the home. And people who leave our church or denomination are still loved and friendly with the members. So certainly not all churches are cults (even though some non-believers try to claim that). Bill Gothard's program controls pretty much every aspect of the lives of his followers, especially the women, it's very legalistic and there is little room for grace. I'm glad that Jinger found her way out.
God bless Jinger for her courage. I think it’s HILARIOUS that JimBob insisted that Jeremy watch Gothard’s videos. 😅 Instead of converting Jeremy to Gothardism, Jinger saw the Light! Way to go, JimBob!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
She went from one cult to another, one male owner to another. She's not free, and she's not courageous - she's a victim of religious abuse and brainwashing, just a different brand now than before.
Be careful! Were you a close friend of the Dugger’s. Were you their neighbor?? Did you know them personally?? Are you not aware of how TV stations push their preferred narrative?? If you live in a glass house do NOT throw stones. The TLC network should go off air. All they do is exploit people. Countless people have been hurt by them. Dr. Phil is another example. If you want to attack anyone we’ll try Benny Hinn or Kenneth Copeland. They ARE false profits. I’m just a bit concerned re your flippancy.
@@katharineshade9550 well, he didn’t follow his parents guidance in life. He has a free choice to walk that life. Unfortunately, with Jinger’s new theological beliefs she believes God preordained that her brother would do those things, and he had no other choice because his path was fixed in stonebefore he was born. I believe he had his own freedom to truly choose to do those things or not, and he chose to do them finding himself where he is today, because of his own sin not because God predetermined his path. Calvinism “reformed theology” is pretty twisted:/
@@AlanaL3 It's not twisted, it's biblical. The bible says God doesn't tempt or do evil but that we will always sin according to our enslaved will and God judges us for that according to our responsibility. In His love and mercy He saved many by grace for His glory. The New Testament says we were dead and enslaved to sin and now we're enslaved to Christ because God saved us. Nowhere does the bible talk about "free will." If God is so holy and we are evil enough to deserve eternal judgement, how could we possibly make "the right choice" to follow God? Ezekiel 36 says God replaces our heart of stone with a heart of flesh and puts His spirit in us to make us follow His commandments. How does a heart of stone choose God? "Free will" isn't required for love, because love comes from God. God is love. We love Him because He first loved us. Jesus said in Matthew 11:27 that He reveals the Father to whom He chooses and in John 6:44 that no one can come to the me unless the Father draws Him. You may disagree but just don't make the mistake of saying it's twisted or a false religion if you don't understand it. Reformed theology resulted from the protestants returning to the Bible. If you want to know more read something like the Westminster confession. The 5 point TULIP everyone talks about was merely a response to Arminius, who came after reformed theology and wanted to pull it back a little towards Roman Catholicism. The issue is monergism vs synergism. I used to think exactly like you. I don't mean this rudely, but I don't think the light bulb ever went off for you, because once it does, the gospel is glorious.
My dad loved Bill Gothard. He had me go to his seminar and I walked away from that thinking how legalistic and oppressive it was. My dad was a wonderful Christian man, but when he would go to the seminar, he'd become really bossy for about a week, then go back to being the loving father he always was.
Lol! Yes! Glad that he would let it go after a while... Another seminar that I have hated was "Love and Respect". :p My husband and I went to one and he was so annoyed by the whole thing! Once we start making more "rules" and emphasizing small parts of scripture as the "whole truth and nothing but" the problems start. ALL scripture is true but taking something out of context and making rules around that is where it breaks down.
I developed a real sympathy for, specifically, the girls of the Duggar family. In about 2009 My sister, sisters friend and I were eating at Panera in Madison WI when they noticed a few of the older Duggar sisters come in and order. They were stopped by so many people, asking to say hi or taking pictures that they left without any food. I felt terrible, no child should face this kind of publicity where they can’t even get lunch. Kids can’t consent, even to fame and what it comes with.
Interesting point. No, children can’t consent to fame. I started taking them off the internet because i felt this same way. Why am I blasting them out there? Interestingly the algorithms respond favorably to children. Especially noticeable on Instagram. I got creeped out.
@@saraz9017 it’s bad for family vlogger kids too. While I disagree with his methods and views on Christianity, you should check out some of the Dad Challenge Podcst’s earlier episodes. He has a few on exposing the demographics on these children of family vloggers. It’s disturbing.
@@jennprescott2757 very interesting. I will look into it. An old high school acquaintance became a well known vlogger. They ended up having kids to satisfy their fans and show. 🥺Wild.
So glad that Jinger was on your show! Growing up I thought the Duggar's had similar beliefs to other families I saw in my area that wore only skirts and dresses, but didn't realize till later more of the "why" of why they dressed and acted the way they did. I would say the difference between detangling and deconstruction would be the authority of the Bible...Deconstruction is taking standard Christian theology and church teaching for thousands of years and throwing out anything that doesn't fit modern sensibilities or "feel good" to that person. What Jinger is describing is taking everything she was taught about God and the world and comparing it to what the Bible says with the Bible being the ultimate authority. I also admire how highly she still talks about her parents even if she disagrees with the theology they have been taught.
Yes, her parents deserve a lot of credit. They handed on their faith, such as it was, to this beautiful young woman, and were loving to her. They guided her successfully, even through an eating disorder.
I have never watched an episode on your channel but I just wanted to say this was an excellent interview. No name calling or shaming just how God has redeemed.
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I literally left the church, the Lord, whole thing after attending a Bill Gothard Seminar as a teenager. I was already living in an extremely Conservative Christian home, and as I sat in that stadium and heard ALL THOSE RULES, something inside me just snapped. I ended up wandering for 15 years, making a lot of mistakes, before I discovered the true love and grace of God. I am so glad Jinger was able to find a more grace filled Gospel.
Glad you made it back to the true Gospel Robyn welcome home!
Curious. What was the big thing that so triggered you?
what the devil intended for evil God Almighty can turn for good.. God works all things together.. Only God can do this... amazing grace..... May we all be healed in Jesus Christ in Jesus' name.. do it Lord for your Glory... Only you Lord for your glory! trample the works of the enemy... again and again and again.
Wow, I am so proud of you Jinger. Jeremey saved your life.
@@barbourjohn I think it would make more sense if you understood my home of origin. Lovely Christian parents but trapped in a very rigid, fearful, religious spirit. No grace just an angry God who demanded we live under rules and more rules. No drinking, dancing, smoking, movies, bathing suits, etc. And then Bill Gothard trots our MORE rules, more regulations, more restrictions, etc and something inside me snapped.
What a wondeful woman! How she lovingly handled the differences in beliefs with her parents is such a master class in grace and kindness.
I was very impressed with this. I also enjoyed seeing the nuances that while she was spiritualy abused, her parents seemed like they were easy to talk to and helpful. I especially was heartened that her father would encourage her to play ball.
Her parents have always taught her the right things about Christianity. She is so fake
Samantha are you involved in IBLP?
This makes her seem rebellious. Children are NOT above their parents.
Lol this is literally a child on a media tour to defame and criticize her parents. This is extremely unhonorable and anti-Christian
My husband and I were introduced to Gothard’s Basic Life Principles through another couple at our church. We were young believers, young parents and seeking wisdom! We were excited during the first 1/2 of that seminar and then he brought up “ungodly melodies.”
My father and my husband were both Classical Concert pianists and it became THAT clear that he was speaking extra-biblically : RIGHT there!
Years later we moved from Miami to Washington state and while we were homeschooling, we met an entire Bill Gothard group…it was devastatingly heartbreaking.
The women in the group accused me of wearing harlot colors - Red and Plum (I’m Cuban with dark skin and I was a Winter - none of them were. My modest dresses were deemed trashy because of the color.
It was absolutely heartbreaking to watch the kids growing in such an unbiblical, unhealthy environment - it sounds like her parents were healthy but the group we met were all soooo unhealthy. Yet, as long as they obeyed the Gothard principles, they thought they were above reproach. 😣
…the Gothard principles seem to inherently avoid the one-another’s and there is absolutely no room for actual grace.
Thank you Allie - big props for this interview.
Ginger - Jesus relentlessly pursued you and rescued you. Praise his HOLY NAME!!! ♥️
Excellent comment! I do wish, though, that. Jinger or Ally had pointed out something critically important: the lack of formal education in this cult that keeps kids woefully ignorant of history, science, literature and pretty much everything academic. I would say that these IBLP folks have the equivalent of a middle school education. Just enough to keep them barefoot and pregnant 🤰
Fully agree! Heartbreaking is a good word for the whole thing. I can’t remember the year that I was introduced to those teachings, however as a singer I knew he was way OFF the music score! I never gave him any credit.
Jinger is a brave young lady. And considering how her brother sexually abuse the sisters, I am so disappointed in so much regarding the family which was lead so far away from the true word of God.
As a mother I can know the pain Jinger’s mother must have.
😣
Jinger's parents were anything but healthy
A group of these people began to attend a church attended by Billy Graham's daughter, She was doing a wonderful work , with lone mothers , (some of them were UNMARRIED MOTHERS !! Oh dear !! A couple from the group got themselves elected to the Eldership, and the wonderful work being done , was closed down at this couple's insistance.
Marriages in this church broke down under pressure from this group. Even one of the Pastors and his wife slept in Separate bedrooms for a while. What was happening in this church made national TV, Then, as suddenly as they had arrived the couple and their friends said ""The Lord is leading us to go somewhere else."" I was on holiday with a cousin in St. Louis at the time, and was appalled by all the damage done to a thriving church , by a small group of extremists , who even quote scripture to ""show that they were right ""
Allie, you're a great interviewer. May the good God continue to bless his beautiful daughter, Jinger!
No freaking way did you get Jinger on here! The crossover of the century! I feel so blessed to hear you both together ☺️
Yes! I’m fan-girling out at this crossover! 😝😍
Well said lol😂
"Freaking" is just another way of saying the curse word.
language?!
Isn't Jinger acting liberal? She disowned religion and appeared on GMA.
I went to a church 40 years ago as a new Christian that paid for everyone to go to Bill Gothard seminars. I cherished all the "wisdom" from it as a young person craving guidance to follow God. It had a lot of good principles for character building and forgiveness. Fortunately it wasn't my only source of godly wisdom, and I became more established in the Bible directly over time. I was taught the umbrella of authority teaching in our church as well but because my parents weren't legally fixed to these teachings it didn't completely consume me but did control my young adult views until my 30s. However thank God the Lord and His word did set me free from man-made traditions that were around me then. Not until recent years have I learned more about Gothard's own sin and his cult like control over his ministry went hand in hand.
I realize now that the umbrella of authority teaching is no where in scripture.
Oh Jinger, I sooo relate. I also was brought up with the Bill Gothard philosophies. I have struggled with intense anxiety about not reading the Bible enough, not praying enough, not loving God enough. Never enough. I am finding freedom now. Thank you so much for sharing.
I relate so much and I never really connected my anxiety growing up with Bill Gothard’s teachings but they were incredibly fear-based and harmful!! It all makes sense now…
Jinger is very classy. She doesn't speak badly of anyone when she speaks. She carries herself with such grace. God Bless her, Jeremy, and their kids. I feel bad for their family living in the shadow of Josh's shame. I know it's not her doing, but all of them are always questioned about it.
I wondered if some of her fear & shame as a child is because of what her brother did to her & other sisters. And not knowing how to handle that as a "Gothard Christian" she probably thought she did something wrong to make her brother act that way toward her. her "punishment" for a sin was her brothers inappropriate acts.
So glad for this testimony. We saw Ginger and her family at Grace Comm church in CA when we were taking our daughter back to TMU ...and smiled knowing they were getting solid teaching and on a great path of gospel truth! God bless you and thank you for sharing and exposing false teaching at the risk of alienatin yourself!
Was it the church where John MacArthur preaches?
Really admire her relationship with the Lord. Praise God for what he's doing in their lives!
Free Indeed was the name of an Acapella quartet that used to come to our youth church camp every summer and i was obsessed with them! I had all of their cds and posters! I grew up Church of Christ. I hope that many of the things the Vuolos believe and preach now are in line with the teachings of the COC!!❤
I commend Jinger for telling her story, her walk in faith. Thanking God she discerned the true Gospel from her cult like raising. I am happy for her and her Pastor husband to have a "normal" life!
What an incredible interview!!! I think the world of Jinger and Jeremy and seek to emulate their character and unconditional love ❤️ I can’t wait to read her book ❣️
This sure points out the importance of being taught by the Holy Spirit through the truth of God’s Word.
Excellent interview & love seeing Jinger's transformation & see God working in her life!
As a teenager I also had unreasonable fears of “being outside of God’s will” The book “Just Do Something” (Kevin DeYoung) was a huge game changer for me.
That book was life-changing for me. It broke the ungodly idea I had always held to that of a decision was right,
I would have peace about it….sometimes the right choice IS NOT the easy one. Sometimes there is no right choice; just a choice.
@@ChalkboardCreativeHomeschool yes! Well said!
Sounds like a book I have to read! My hubby has been telling me that he thinks it’s time for me to go back to work. It’s always been a dream of mine to be a Spec Ed teacher. My kids are older now, 19 and 17, plus my hubby is working fully from home so there is no reason why not to do it. But I’m so afraid of making the wrong decision and being out of Gods will, that I can’t take the first step.
Great book
Just saw this book recommended in a Facebook group I’m in. Definitely going to check it out.
How wonderful to see the radiant woman Jinger has become! I sensed such a different spirit about her and when she met her husband, I knew he was a man of God. I am 73, and was brought up in a Gothard-like church where I never felt worthy or loved by God. But after marrying at 18, I soon became a mother and was so confused I constantly contemplated suicide. Then I started actually going to Gothard's seminars and became even more confused. God finally got me into a church where I heard about GRACE, and I got free indeed. I just wanted to comment that I believe Jinger, like me, had a particularly tender heart toward God at a young age, which made us even more susceptible to rigid, legalistic teaching. Thank God we're free!
Much more detailed and over all a superior interview of Jinger about her book than any other I’ve seen. Excellent!
Always saw something powerful on Jinger’s life when i used to watch the tv show ❤️ God bless her
I was busy around my house yesterday and listened to your whole book on Audible. I grew up in a legalistic church. For the last 30 years I’ve been in a reformed PCA church. I still wrestle with some of the things I was taught as a child . Your book was like a breath of fresh air.
I'm curious to know more about her courtship story with her husband, especially in terms of theological differences. I would love to hear his perspective as well at the time and also more about her relationships with other people.
In the book they wrote together, they mention that Jim Bob didn’t want her to court him because his views weren’t quite as conservative as theirs.
@@whitneydavis7443 funnily enough, shortly after posting this I came across the book they wrote together online and currently listening on audio 😄
This was great to watch and helped me have compassion on some legalistic people I know. Thank you!
Thank you, Jinger. I'm so glad you wrote this book. Thank you for discussing your fear and guilt in relationship to God. It helped me understand so much.
I went to a seminar in the 80s when I was a teenager in Auckland with my parents, during a break I threw up in a pot plant not knowing I was already pregnant. All week I was guilt ridden throughout the seminar knowing I could not live up to the rules, lifestyle etc. Thankfully I couldn’t really be swept up with the teachings and had to face life’s challenges and accept my situation, disappointing parents etc, but eventually coming to the Lord many years later in his perfect timing. Life is the best teacher, not good principles because He knows who are his and will lead us back to Him. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Loved this interview! I also grew up under Bill Gothard’s teachings. It is so helpful for me to hear this story. My family was similar in that we knew Gothard’s teachings were not the actual Gospel. However, it was the “wise” way to structure and live life. And going against “wisdom” was rebellion. I am excited to read the book!
I grew up around people who judged my mom, my siblings, and myself for not joining Bill Gothard’s teachings. She went to one of his conferences and knew it wasn’t right. I’m so thankful she didn’t. She doesn’t know the Duggars are entangled in his teachings because she likes them but she wouldn’t approve of those teachings.
One boy I met when I was in middle school I ran into many years later when we both worked in a Christian bookstore during our college years. I was trying to move out and live closer to college and my job and he was trying to get away from the harmful Gothard home environment he grew up in. He had to hide from his parents that we were going to live together (we weren’t dating each other - just friends) and we were trying to figure out how we were going to pull it off. It never happened because I ended up moving cities away and that’s a whole different story. I just remember him trying to escape that. Not sure if he ever stayed in the faith or not. We lost touch when I moved and I never saw him again.
It’s good to see one Duggar after another starting to leave these harmful teachings. Seems it’s the ones that move away from their toxic parents that end up seeing the harm. It’s so hard because many lose the faith over it. I almost did when I got sucked into the NAR for over a decade.
hey girl- This interview with Jinger was so interesting. So happy that she now knows the truth and she can always go to God's word and he can help her and point her to the truth.
If you worry you doubt God. Based on verse in Bible. Can't quote chapter and verse but you can find this devotional in my utmost for His highest. This interview is powerful. Must get her book
loved this, their tactics were actually a very similar formula to the cult God helped me escape, the shincheonji. would love for this channel to discuss them as well, targeted to a lot of young christians on instagram, other social media, & even dating apps claiming to be a "free virutal bible study" and as someone longing for fellowship i fell into the trap. i had so much to unlearn and pray others would escape as well
I see Herman Bavinck's Reformed Dogmatics up there on the shelf! And the collected writings of John Newton! James Boice's commentaries too?! Some fine literature on the Vuolo's shelf! 🥰
Jeremy's office!!!!!!
What? A Dutch reformed book? I grew up dutch reformed - they did not teach salvation - talk about rules and laws you had to follow - hated it - was saved many years later thank goodness! It did give me my basic believe in God though...
@@rinskepv Me too. Thats why I am a bit confused about it. I grew up reformed had the same fear (still do sometimes) of God If I would do this or if I wouldn’t do this God would punish me And to this day I still struggle sometimes with that even though I know better. Really reformed churches dont preach the gospel. But still teaches that you have to do certain things and hopefully God will look favourible on you. It is not the Gospel.
@@Avi-yp7rx I'm confused too, was up late looking up what reformed meant and what they teach... it must be different from our upbringing because clearly she doesn't feel performance driven anymore.
My old fashioned strict by the rules dutch mother became radically saved at home and began going to a Pentecostal church(I was out of the house by then) very strong woman in the faith - basically left her dutch friends etc behind - brave for back then!
@Rinske V
I grew up in a “really Reformed” church and have belonged to one my entire life. I never had a list of rules to follow. Salvation is by faith alone through grace alone in Christ alone. The Holy Spirit breaks your heart of stone and leads you to everlasting life. We are still sinners, every day. But because God has saved us from eternal condemnation, I seek to walk with him in all aspects of my life. And I am secure in my salvation. The Dutch Reformed Church does have a lot of legalism built in. I know someone who left that church a few years ago and found true freedom, still within a Reformed context. My cousin has gotten involved in a legalistic Reformed church, and it’s so sad to see. As with every type of Christian belief system, there are those who are good and biblical and those who aren’t. Like Jinger said, it’s disentangling the biblical from the unbiblical.
I can’t wait to listen to the book. She’s brave for writing it.
I appreciated this interview. I went through a similar examining of what I was taught & became reformed. I remember enjoying their TLC show & not knowing much about their beliefs.
Great interview with a sweet gal. So glad she's found the Truth!
This is such a lovely interview. I’ve taken a small mental break from your content due to the dark nature of it, but I loved this message of hope and grace. I really look forward to reading her book.
I needed to hear this! Thank you both!❤️🙏
Such an excellent interview! One clue….we know a tree by it’s fruit. If it induces fear (not godly fear) but anxiety and fear….it’s not of God. Satanic fruit. Perfect love (the love of Christ) casts out fear. What she speaks of is bondage. Praise God for His deliverance! 💗🙌🏻🙌🏻✝️
Excellent interview. Jinger's story is great example of how you can be deceived and manipulated if you don't know your bible.
It’s not about not knowing your Bible. It’s about being in an organization that twists the scriptures and being brainwashed by it.
@Cynthia Fisher yes I don't disagree about the organization but her parents were young didn't know their Bible well enough to know that they were under unbiblical leadership and teaching.
@@ahandfuloffun I’ve been in a legalistic church and I did know the Bible. I don’t think it was because they didn’t know their Bible. The youth probably played into it, but his mom apparently was the one who got them into it. It has to do with being vulnerable and a rule follower.
Allie this was a really encouraging interview! Thank you. Would you be willing to share more details about your testimony? You mentioned being eight years old and saying the “sinners prayer” multiple times, all while wondering if you’re truly saved. I know you’re now reformed so I’m curious to learn more about your faith journey and when/how the Lord saved you.
It was really great listening to Jinger. I have experience with Gothard and understand what she is talking about.
Excellent interview. The only word I can think of is STRENGTH. How did Jinger have the strength to allow Jeremy into her life. How did she have the strength to open herself to look at a different world. The lord must have guided her toward it. We can only hope that all or some of her siblings, allow themselves to see another world where they are faithful Christians without the man made fears and misinformation. Perhaps even her parents can see another way.
I’m so proud of Jinger for her courage in sharing the dangerous errors of Gothard. He has done such spiritual damage and shipwrecked the faith of untold believers in Christ. I’ve personally been exposed to him for many years and seen how he has trapped my friends into his web of twisted scriptures and outright
lunacy! God bless Jinger as she helps to set the captives free in Jesus Christ and his grace❤️
Ok so I was genuinely surprised and encouraged by what Jinger said. I was prepared to be on the defensive because a lot of people tend to swing from one side to the other, but this was very good stuff. And while I do think the respect kind of fear of God is good, the kind of fear that she talked about was all consuming. As a young girl, I went to one of Bill Gothards older conferences and I learned some good truths from it ad far as good advise to read and study God's word, etc. But I feel like in may other areas, he really went off the rail. I think we need to be so careful about this, because it can happen so quickly when a dynamic teacher comes along that we almost make a god out of him. I am so glad Jinger found freedom in Jesus!
I left the Southern Baptist church so I could freely follow Jesus. I love this!
It was so great to hear your journey...thanks for sharing
Thank you Jinger❤
I love Allie. She is like a kinder, gentler version of Candace Owens, tackling controversial issues boldly without fear of what others think of our Christian views.
Sometimes destruction happens, but that adversity helps strengthen your faith. The devil attacks his toughest soldiers, but Christ will love you through it
Great interview! Also, loving the video quality and color grading! So thumbs up to whoever is doing that 👏 .
All this talk about fear resonates with me growing up in a German speaking,Mennonite church. I was so afraid,listening to preachers who shouted about damnation and hell. My parents were very strict.What helped was Sunday school where the gentle ladies taught us about a loving God. I struggled most of my life about measuring up to God. I’m 74 now. One thing I was taught and my husband really reenforced that self esteem was just selfishness and self love. It hurt my oldest child terribly as she also has a learning disability. She was bullied ,,,,,,,but the pastors child was a queen bee,,,,,she would even claim to have seizures when her hormones went into hyper overdrive. Anything to get a boys attention. She needed psychiatric care, and perhaps a firmer father. Her father would be preaching away and never noticed how her boyfriend played with the back of her bra. My husband was an usher and he DID notice but when my husband told him the truth he choose not to listen. Fast forward 30 years later after 2 church splits the lovely little VM church in the dale burned down just three weeks ago. It’s so sad. They actually excommunicated us and handed us over to Satan for the destruction of our flesh because they falsely accused an elder of child abuse. We dared to go visit the accused,who were Shantymen missionaries, (who ministered along North Americas longest highway and in logging and oil patch camps)No one was allowed to ask questions and complete obedience was required. We have been shunned for 30 years and yes it DEVASTATED us. People are so gullible. It’s like mass psychosis. (That pandemic was a world wide psychosis as well.Real scientists and doctors were destroyed by corrupt leaders.)People with leadership qualities are usually gifted and charming but often are narcissistic as well, are proud of “being humble” and don’t like accountability.
I do think Bill Gothards teachings had good in them at first but it caused people who wanted the best for their families to become narrow minded and over zealous. Some people seem to have benefitted from his strict views because they were likely on the fence spiritually and had a narrow minded upbringing too. But if you took a shy sheltered girl whose parents were already strict it could cause them a LOT of fear. If you took a young insecure boy he could develop into a RIGID man. Or they become rebellious. Or out of curiosity get sucked into porn these days.
Iam glad Jill did not speak directly of her family. I think JB and M have also suffered tremendously,as any Christian parents do when one of their children goes astray and instead of being judgemental we should pray for legalistic families.
As far as churches go,,,,yes I could write a book. One big red flag I have is WATCH OUT when a group starts to gang up on someone because they don’t give the leadership complete obedience. Our allegiance is to Christ Jesus. If your uncomfortable in a church,,,,,leave. If there is a lot of gossip have the courage to call it out or just leave. This goes for all churches. There is far FAR too much glorifying of those in leadership. They too need accountability.
I have no idea what happened to Bill Gothard except that he had qualities of leadership that he took to a rather strict level. I heard that he stopped doing seminars near Seattle and Vancouver
BC when his brother divorced. Surely must be well into retirement by now. I can see how some women likely adored him. I have seen women falling for their pastors over the years. Then the pastors taste the “apple”. The devil is alive and well and l can’t warn young women enough. That’s right ladies. After marriage you are unavailable. Flirty girls are the devils delight. Set boundaries guys‼️
I left this movement with my husband three years ago. I'm so happy we are no longer believing or teaching these things.
Perfect love casts out fear. Good for you girl! You are being perfected in love. Fear is of satans kingdom
I've never heard of Bill Gothard, but I've certainly heard of his teachings. I went to a private "baptist academy" for middle school and they taught everything he did. It really messed me up; I never actually turned away from God, but I gave up on myself because I thought I could never be good enough, I could never follow all those rules and do all the stuff He required of me. I was terrified of God. That and purity culture in my early teens/early 2000s, and I ended up hating myself, being ashamed of my body, and seeing myself as worthless...they would go on and on about how women were "precious jewels" but in reality women were less than nothing. I'm in my 30s now and I'm undoing the damage it did, with help from my current church. It is so good hearing someone speak up about this. I definitely want to buy her book.
Learning balance in all areas of life is a life long journey. I think those seasons weren’t necessarily a bad thing in her life, they were just part of her journey.
So thankful she’s growing in her understanding of a life of communion with our living heavenly Father
In my early thirties I became very disenchanted with and left "the Church" and Religion in general because of so much hypocrisy, rules and fear-based teaching. So basically I just deconstructed, but never lost my belief in God. Thirty plus years and many TH-cam videos later, I FINALLY understand the LOVE of God, but now am trying to actually disentangle my prior belief system to develop the relationship I always should have had with Him. It is definitely a process!
"So much grace missing"....I wonder how many times they would sing "Amazing Grace" as she grew up and never believed what they were singing? I am so glad she has found it now and truly feels it!
Wow I am 34 and I still feel this way. I feel like nothing of this world is interesting
My husband and his family were deep into bill gothards ATI in the 90's. His parents still espouse his teachings and don't believe anything about the sexual misconduct. So sad and so destructive. His parents banned Christian music like Steve Green and so they were only allowed to listen to classical music and hymns at church. His parents were even part of a church split over Gothards teachings.
Wow, what a testimony Jinger. God is using you mightily!!!!! I love your show and your parents and believe they had your best intentions in their heart but like so many of us they believed the lies of satan where he starts with God's truths but twists them like an enemy of God does. Satan is the prince of lies and it is clear how he deceived your well-meaning parents! I pray that the truth that God has revealed to you will reach the ears of the rest of your beautiful family and they will open their heart and eyes to that life-changing TRUTH! Jesus is truth He is love and His grace is incomprehensible. May your message reach the heart of so many, I pray in the heart-changing name of JESUS!
Kudos to Jinger for speaking out 👏🏽
Love to hear this Jinger!
Great program! Amen!
Love Jinger! Thanks for sharing!
Beautifully said.
I hope her parents watch this and open their eyes and heart
I have an older brother, who went to a Gothard seminar when he was in his late teens. He smelled the legalism right away, even though he had.only been a believer couple of years. I went to a seminar, at the paid invitation of a good friend, when I was in my mid 20's. Although there was some good teaching there. There was much legalism, and I was put off by Bill's dogmatic stand on music; even Christian music.
I was particularly scandalized, though, when I read about some of the corruption that was exposed in the ministry in recent years. I had no idea! It's sad; so sad! I'm Pro-Life, and Conservative, but the extremes that Bill Gothard has taught have done much damage.
My coworker grew up with the Duggars and her family were friends with the Duggars. She is now a lesbian and is attempting to go by he/them pronouns. It's interesting to see how growing up in this environment can pull you closer to God for some, and push you away from God for others.
God is using Jinger in a mighty big way! Without even realizing it, her father Jim bob started the ball rolling on bringing her to the truth of God’s word! It was brilliant, and that’s our God!!! Jinger is so sweet and classy. She spoke the truth and still gave honor to her parents. I pray that the rest of the family finds their way to the truth. When Jesus said it is finished, He meant it!! It’s all grace! I relate to Paul when he said, oh wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death? We are all wretched and sin everyday, and God’s word tells us that a man who thinks otherwise is a liar, and he calls God a liar. We couldn’t possibly repent for every sin, when the Lord Jesus saved me, He saved and forgave me from my past, present, and future sins at once. There is pleasure in sin for a season, but the true believer will come back to Him, and Jinger is so right! Once you are saved you will be miserable to stay in your sin. Raise up a child in the way that it shall go and when it is old it will not depart from it🙏👍❤️! God bless you Jinger, I’m so proud of you🙌🙌🙌❤️❤️❤️🥰
God bless you both~. This was so interesting….
25 years ago my homeschool group had a number of couples who bought into the Gothard teaching. They had as many kids as possible, wore very conservative clothes and the boys had short hair. We had already decided to complete our family with 3 kids weren't going to change that with reversal surgery. We could see a lot of legalism even though most of the people were very sweet. Today my daughter homeschools her 3 and resists any form of Christianity that is legalistic. Thankful for God's leading in this.
Gothard teaches against adoption. When I told one of the women I wanted to adopt she told me that would be a big mistake. Now I would say, "I'm sorry you feel that way because I'm adopted. (Into Jesus' family!)"
I find it interesting that these families were obviously trying to apply biblical principles to their lives and you find that legalistic. Women wearing conservative clothes and only dresses and skirts is biblical, men having short hair is biblical, couples being fruitful and desiring to have a big family is biblical. I do think these are very personal principles and not something that should be pushed to those around you, I think the pulpit is a good place to teach those things and obviously within your own family.
@@wendymtzc Adoption is bad???? The bible literally says that true religion is caring for the orphans.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr when did I say adoption is bad?
@@wendymtzc I must have have missed something! Did Jesus have short hair? Paul says in 1 Cor. that it is better to not marry. That kind of squashes the "be fruitful and multiply" idea. We should not dress like the opposite sex in our culture because we don't want to promote the trans movement. But telling me not to adopt a child was the most disturbing thing in the Gothard movement. Not at all Scriptural. I can tell you have a spirit that is sensitive to the Holy Spirit. Live for Jesus, sister! Your light is shining bright. 🙂
@@wendymtzc In my post above I said Gothard said adoption is bad.
This explains why Jana hasn't left the compound. :-/ Not under the umbrella of authority. I hope all Jinger's siblings come to know the true freedom of the gospel.
She is so sweet.
Jinger is brave for speaking out!
If Christians would just realize that Christ did it all on the cross. If we believe the gospel which is the death , burial and resurrection we are saved. He paid for our sins, we just need to accept it and believe it. We don’t have to keep confessing our sins. They are already forgiven.
I grew up around a lot of these teachings. Thankfully my dad refused to be part of the patriarchal movement. I was the oldest of ten kids and had so many people try to convince me to watch the Duggar show. But I hated these parents selling their family’s daily life for profit. It made me furious then as 1 of 10 who was already gawked at by people in public for being a “modest” homeschooled large family.
Did Jinger and Jeremy watch the videos and bring up these questions in front of Jinger's parents? and if not how did they get around that "rule"
We used the ATIA homeschool curriculum- we didn’t go “ nuts” with it- you must make choices for your own family based on your religious understanding- I like Bill Gothard- I believe he is honest. He is just a person , he makes mistake like humans do, he isn’t God.
I am wondering if Jinger being molested by her brother didn’t have anything to do with her anxiety and fear. That happened around the same time as the show starting on TLC.
Wondering the same!
She’s amazing ❤️
I'm a first time viewer and am super surprised at how many ads you have! While I don't have a problem with earning a living, but the way you add advertisements within your own videos - and in addition to the YT ads, affects not only the continuity of your presentation, but more importantly, your reputation.
So good! Thanks Allie!!
I don’t see much of a difference between deconstruction and disentanglement, I think they’re just different ways of describing what’s needed to take place within much of the church today. Some will need to deconstruct, while others will have to disentangle. Many of us are “losing our religion” to find Jesus..again. I have had to deconstruct/tear down the old frameworks- things other people framed up for me (and a lot of them were lies!), in order to overcome years of religion’s abuse. It’s taken some time to heal, but returning to the Truth of who Jesus is, and remembering who I am in Him has been life changing.
“We can demolish every deceptive fantasy that opposes God and break through every arrogant attitude that is raised up in defiance of the true knowledge of God. We capture like prisoners of war, every thought and insist that it bow in obedience to the Anointed One”.
-2 Corinthians 10:5 ❤📖
I’m remembering an old song,
“If I had a hammer..
I’d hammer out justice
…and freedom”
Thanks, Gals, for this great conversation! Keep shining!
The best part about this interview is that she answers questions thoroughly without dragging people's names through the mud. She still honors her parents for being loving and God-fearing and God honoring and I think we could all learn something from that.
And God honored her parents .
Yes. We can learn they were wrong.
@@stevesmith1493 we already knew that. Her graciousness is a great example of God's free, undeserved grace toward us, because we are wrong, too....born into sin. Wrong from the beginning and doing wrong knowingly and unknowingly until we die, friend. God doesn't look at us and throw us away. You should take those same pointing fingers and lift them to God in gratitude for His mercy toward you, then put them together with the other 8 fingers and pray for them.
I think we can all find ways, daily, that God blesses us. But the teachings really tore apart their family. I feel for them. Their oldest son is in jail and…… they’ve been through a lot. Monetary blessings are not always the most important.
@@francinesanchez5402 yeah, In my sure that looking back they wouldn't say it was worth it. Definitely need to pray for all of them. There's a ton of healing that they will need that only God can provide. Not to mention the other people still deceived in that teaching.
Her fiancé did the right thing by telling her to go back to the Bible to find peace. That's really wonderful to hear.
But think about it, every person who is claiming to preach the “truth” is using the Bible to say that’s what he is doing. That’s why Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) is not the truth. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you are you’re own authority to interpret scripture. You need a church and a magisterium to do it so you are not led astray by evil men and “itchy ears” This is the reason you have thousands of Protestant Denominations who all claim to be teaching from the same Bible. Yet you only have one Catholic Church, which dates back to the Apostles. Protestants have only been around for 500 years. Something to think about 💁🏼♀️
@@kaykay1076 The Holy Spirit is not only our comforter, sent after JESUS' assension to heaven, but John 14:26 , John 16:1, and other passages, show how He would lead us into understanding the truth in GOD'S word as well. There is nothing wrong with others helping us, along the journey of understanding GOD'S word. However, He has promised to show us if we ask. We need to pray to Him, by faith, to open our understanding. Studying GOD'S word is like searching for treasures (Proverbs 2:3-8). It's line upon line (Isaiah 28:10-13) Understanding of principles and GOD's prophecies is to study the harmonious whole in both the old and new testaments. May GOD continue to lead us on that narrow path because there is only one way, not the broad way "anyway goes" to heaven ( Matthew 7:13-14)🙏
@@kaykay1076
Thanks for saying what I wanted to say but was afraid I couldn't say it as gently as you did. I am a convert to Catholicism. I love my evangelical friends..and the Duggars...and believe their faith is sincere, but it's painful to watch sheep wandering. I know many ignorant Catholics wander too. Praying for all souls today!
@@andreawally4488 All true but there are two lungs to divine revelation, scripture and tradition. How did the earliest disciples who witnessed Jesus interpret scripture? What has the Church always taught about about a given principle or doctrine? We can guard ourselves by getting our doctrine and practice from the Church and not a single individual, e.g. Bill Gothard.
@@kaykay1076 THE CHURCH OF CHRIST became because of JESUS CHRIST, and only JESUS CHRIST!!! Catholics follow rules & law, THE CHURCH OF CHRIST FOLLOWS GOD, JESUS, THE HOLY SPIRIT, & THE BIBLE, which is literally GODS WORD!!!
What I love about Jinger's story here is that it shows for true believers, nothing can snatch them (us) out of the father's hand. Many in her shoes would throw the whole of Christianity away. But she persisted and sorted out the false from the true.
Yes! I was just thinking that. Im so grateful she didnt walk away completely.
Yes, this!!
God knew Jingers heart!
Lmao, way to judge other people's lived experiences.🙄
Yes!
I get her 💯 after leaving Mormonism of 34 yrs for a true biblical relationship with Christ.
My experience with LDS is way different. I’ve never felt this fear of God. I’m happy you found another church to join.
I am a member of the lds church and I also have never felt the fear of having to strictly adhere to rules and guidelines. I have felt love and grace and an understanding we are human and make mistakes. It makes me sad that people had a fear based experience with mormonism because that is not the core of the teachings. I think it was culturally perpetuated. I'm glad you found a place where you don't feel that because God is love, forgiveness and grace.
Same! I left the LDS church this year and I feel the same.
Same. I'm also a former Mormon and this was so relatable.
I come from a very legalistic baptist background. The spirit of religion is fully aware in there. My mother told me god would break my legs if I wore high heals. I wore shorts in my house, so I was as asking to get raped. That kind of thing. So, I totally get what’s being said here. I FLED from God, and only came back 3 years ago...and I'm 39. I love Jesus and thr grace he's given us.
I grew up in the Gothard ministry, and also a cult in our church, and I worked closely with Bill at his Headquarters from 1988-1994. The Lord has also helped me untangle those deeply embedded beliefs that actually damaged my relationship with Jesus
Oh my, me too, I too went to seminars in the 80's and took me years to untangle the lies and unbiblical teaching.
Legalism is so destructive. I’m so glad you got free!
Kristen Rasmussen what do you mean by Legalism? Most people today in the progressive space would consider Allie that.
@@IWantToMature85 Right it's good to define this. It's a lie to say Christianity has no rules or disciplines. Historically when Christians formed communities under a set of rules, (e.g. the Rule of Bennedict), people joined voluntarily and agreed to them. The leader was approved and ordained by Church authority and did not take this role upon himself or impose his own ideas or Bible interpretations on others.
I first went to a Gothard Basic seminar, correctly called Institute in Basic Life Principles, when I was a rebellious teen. His teaching helped me see my parents in a different light, and harmony was restored to our home. From that point on, my parents, sister and I went to the seminars yearly and looked forward to them with anticipation. God used Bill Gothard's ministry to turn my life around. I've been happily married for 30 years because of principles I learned at that seminar! We didn't follow all the recommendations that are available through the home schooling arm of the ministry. That is a separate organization called ATI, or Advanced Training Institute. We know many families who used those materials and liked them. It's ridiculous to just hear of one person's experience and unique home situation and see the entire ministry through that person's experiences!!!
A friend paid for my husband and I to attend a Bill Gothard seminar when we were newlyweds in 1983. We walked out about halfway through the first session… the legalism was outrageous; he went so far as to list specific (normal) sexual activities within marriage and condemn them and was very condemning toward parents. Come to find out, he himself was unmarried with no children!! Yes, a real expert! I’m so glad we had the discernment to walk out
I was invited by an older Christian woman to attend one of Gothard’s conferences years ago. I was shocked by his low view of women. Wives were to place their husband before God and obey their husband even if what their husband asked them to do was immoral. Her husband’s will always was primary. Women were promised God’s blessing if they obeyed their husband no matter what. A woman gave her testimony of how she was asked by her husband to participate in doing something she knew to be wrong. But she obeyed her husband and believed that God blessed her for her “obedience” ignoring her own knowledge of right and wrong from the Bible.
My parents went to those seminars too in the 80s at least twice. All of these false teachings about authority and submission really messed up their marriage because my dad was a controlling narcissist and it fed into his need for power, adoration and control. My poor mother couldn’t voice her opinion or disagreement with anything he said or did without creating a huge argument and lots of hard feelings and bitterness between them. I now understand how bad the cultish teachings of Bill Gothard were for our family!
Gothard had a strong hold on a church I was in. Hated it. Felt like I was back in the cult I grew up in.
Weren’t they called “Basic Youth Conflicts”?
Bills never been married 😆 of course he doesn’t want couples to enjoy each other.
We were introduced to Gothard through our church friends. Many mature Christians were misled by Gothard. We also went to several seminars, and we were part of his home school program. We didn’t strictly adhere to all that was taught, and we left when the program seemed too controlling. Later we learned about really disgusting, abusive, and even more controlling things that were being reported, as taking place, within the organization. The lesson we learned is to be extremely, careful about the teaching that you allow yourself to sit
under, and constantly be checking, to make sure, that what you are currently being taught lines up with scripture. Be Bereans!
Show thy self approved. We must know the word of God to be able to discern the truth! If you know God TRULY CALL A SPADE A SPADE!
Same!
A mature Christian would have discernment not to believe Bill Gathered. Just because someone’s been a believer for years doesn’t mean they are mature in the faith . If you don’t study the Bible and understand it and be a believer for years makes you a baby Christian . Many believers don’t study . The Bible says to medicate on the word day and night .
An example that even mature Christians can be misled is that Elizabeth Elliot was one of the speakers, at one of Gothard’s homeschool conferences, that I attended. In our modern times, Elizabeth Elliot was an example of a very, mature believer. I have the utmost respect for Elizabeth Elliot. I doubt that she would have had anything to do with the Gothard organization, had she known what was actually going on behind the scenes. Sometimes a teacher gains respect, as a very sound biblical teacher, and later in their ministry they become swayed off the path. This may be the case with Gothard. No human is infallible, no matter how mature they are, in Christ, because we live in a fallen world. Sanctification is an on going process, throughout our lives. Satan is the father of lies, and he does his most deceptive work, when he deals is partial truths. Our job is follow the mandate given to us by Jesus, and by Paul, which is to be constantly aware that false teachers, will arise among the flock. Again I say, we must be “Bereans”!
Gods grace right there. I grew up with Bill Gothard teaching and legalism. So glad the Lord showed me His Doctrine of Grace
🌷🌷🌷👊🏻📖
Same. The doctrines of grace helped set me free
Same!!!
Ditto
Did they say they were saved by grace but then just not in practice actually acting like it? Was it like the words didn't match reality?
I hope that Jim Bob and Michelle can understand what their children, and Jinger in particular, went through trying to live up to that impossible standard and have some empathy for the younger ones that are still at home.
Yes..indoctrination in the highest form!
It’s very telling they have not come out and offered support to Jinger as she tells her story. Jinger extended so much grace to them and from them…crickets. Do better Jim Bob snd Michele.
Do better? Why should they have to go public for your sake? Jinger seems to be giving grace we could all learn from that.
@@cindykoerner6719 actually they are supportive of her choices, from what she has said. They may not be perfect but at least they love their children even while disagreeing with them.
Why would Jinger leave though? Look at how she is dressed. Apostolic Pentecostals dress their own way. She's appearing on national TV and appearing like those of the world. This makes it seems like she wanted to fit in and be like the majority. Why go on GMA? That program favors the left in their political coverage. If she was spreading the word of God, they wouldn't have her on their show. She wasn't doing this when TLC was still paying her.
So proud of her! Hope to hear more disentanglement stories rather than deconstruction stories.
I also love how intentional she was about honoring her parents while sharing her experience.
Yes 🙌🏼
Disentanglement over deconstruction....love that!
I love this woman!!!! I always knew she was different
@@AdrienneJung.M Yesss 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
@@marissaplotnikov7311 She's awesome!
This young woman is so gracious when speaking about her parents, as well as Bill Gothard. Her maturity is admirable and love for the Lord shines as a light in a dark place.
Did she leave Christianity though? Why is she appearing on talk shows calling her family a "cult?" I can't respect that.
@@IWantToMature85 She hasn't called her family a cult. She has called Gothard's IBLP cult-like, which it is. So many young people have been harmed by well-meaning parents following his extra-biblical rules (there's nothing in the Bible requiring women to wear their hair long and curly, adult children being required to live with their parents until they are married, drums being used to summon demons, and that there is an "umbrella of authority" that everyone must remain under or bad things will happen. Bill Gothard taught all of those things and many much more harmful things.) Jim Bob and Michelle raised their children in a fear-based religion and that's a sad shame. Even so, Jinger has professed her love for them and has NOT criticized them directly.
@@juliachildress2943 but apostolic also have women wear their hair long with skirts. They aren't a cult.
@@IWantToMature85 Just like your employer has a dress code, but your employer isn't a cult. There are several characteristics that many experts agree on that make a group cult-like: 1. A charismatic leader that claims to have knowledge or a system that no one else possesses and who will often not tolerate questions or doubts. 2. Isolation and fear of non-members of the group. 3. The group has a measure of control over personal actions like dress, eating and food habits, marriage decisions, where you can live, and with whom you can associate. 4. The claim that God or a higher authority dictated or endorses the group. 5. You may be punished or shunned if you decide to leave the group. There are more. Bill Gothard's IBLP checks a lot of those boxes in total or in part. I am a devout Christian and yes my denomination has some expectations for behaviors (such as treating each other like Jesus would). However, we are all free to question and discuss doctrine, we make free choices about whether to work, how to dress, with whom to associate, and my church would never try to dictate whether or not you use birth control, homeschool or whether a woman works outside of the home. And people who leave our church or denomination are still loved and friendly with the members. So certainly not all churches are cults (even though some non-believers try to claim that). Bill Gothard's program controls pretty much every aspect of the lives of his followers, especially the women, it's very legalistic and there is little room for grace. I'm glad that Jinger found her way out.
so her parents did well in that regard, teaching her the Godly concepts that she displays today. I think M and JB tried their best.
.
God bless Jinger for her courage. I think it’s HILARIOUS that JimBob insisted that Jeremy watch Gothard’s videos. 😅 Instead of converting Jeremy to Gothardism, Jinger saw the Light! Way to go, JimBob!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
She went from one cult to another, one male owner to another. She's not free, and she's not courageous - she's a victim of religious abuse and brainwashing, just a different brand now than before.
Be careful! Were you a close friend of the Dugger’s. Were you their neighbor?? Did you know them personally?? Are you not aware of how TV stations push their preferred narrative?? If you live in a glass house do NOT throw stones. The TLC network should go off air. All they do is exploit people. Countless people have been hurt by them. Dr. Phil is another example. If you want to attack anyone we’ll try Benny Hinn or Kenneth Copeland. They ARE false profits. I’m just a bit concerned re your flippancy.
Jinger is so well spoken. You can tell she has put in a lot of time thinking and praying about this process . Great communication skills.
And that her parents did a great job raising her.
@@AlanaL3 But not with Josh, apparently.
@@katharineshade9550 well, he didn’t follow his parents guidance in life. He has a free choice to walk that life. Unfortunately, with Jinger’s new theological beliefs she believes God preordained that her brother would do those things, and he had no other choice because his path was fixed in stonebefore he was born. I believe he had his own freedom to truly choose to do those things or not, and he chose to do them finding himself where he is today, because of his own sin not because God predetermined his path. Calvinism “reformed theology” is pretty twisted:/
@@AlanaL3 It's not twisted, it's biblical. The bible says God doesn't tempt or do evil but that we will always sin according to our enslaved will and God judges us for that according to our responsibility. In His love and mercy He saved many by grace for His glory. The New Testament says we were dead and enslaved to sin and now we're enslaved to Christ because God saved us. Nowhere does the bible talk about "free will." If God is so holy and we are evil enough to deserve eternal judgement, how could we possibly make "the right choice" to follow God? Ezekiel 36 says God replaces our heart of stone with a heart of flesh and puts His spirit in us to make us follow His commandments. How does a heart of stone choose God? "Free will" isn't required for love, because love comes from God. God is love. We love Him because He first loved us. Jesus said in Matthew 11:27 that He reveals the Father to whom He chooses and in John 6:44 that no one can come to the me unless the Father draws Him. You may disagree but just don't make the mistake of saying it's twisted or a false religion if you don't understand it. Reformed theology resulted from the protestants returning to the Bible. If you want to know more read something like the Westminster confession. The 5 point TULIP everyone talks about was merely a response to Arminius, who came after reformed theology and wanted to pull it back a little towards Roman Catholicism. The issue is monergism vs synergism. I used to think exactly like you. I don't mean this rudely, but I don't think the light bulb ever went off for you, because once it does, the gospel is glorious.
Also, I meant to say read the Canons of Dort.
My dad loved Bill Gothard. He had me go to his seminar and I walked away from that thinking how legalistic and oppressive it was. My dad was a wonderful Christian man, but when he would go to the seminar, he'd become really bossy for about a week, then go back to being the loving father he always was.
😂 kind of funny
This is really interesting
Same 😂
Lol! Yes! Glad that he would let it go after a while...
Another seminar that I have hated was "Love and Respect". :p My husband and I went to one and he was so annoyed by the whole thing! Once we start making more "rules" and emphasizing small parts of scripture as the "whole truth and nothing but" the problems start. ALL scripture is true but taking something out of context and making rules around that is where it breaks down.
I’m so glad he forgot about it after a week!
such a good interview! thank you for spreading the word
I'm surprised Allie was so ignorant on the IBLP movement and Bill Gothard tho
I developed a real sympathy for, specifically, the girls of the Duggar family. In about 2009 My sister, sisters friend and I were eating at Panera in Madison WI when they noticed a few of the older Duggar sisters come in and order. They were stopped by so many people, asking to say hi or taking pictures that they left without any food. I felt terrible, no child should face this kind of publicity where they can’t even get lunch. Kids can’t consent, even to fame and what it comes with.
Interesting point. No, children can’t consent to fame. I started taking them off the internet because i felt this same way. Why am I blasting them out there?
Interestingly the algorithms respond favorably to children. Especially noticeable on Instagram. I got creeped out.
@@saraz9017 it’s bad for family vlogger kids too.
While I disagree with his methods and views on Christianity, you should check out some of the Dad Challenge Podcst’s earlier episodes. He has a few on exposing the demographics on these children of family vloggers. It’s disturbing.
I think the episode is Bombshell Truths About the Dangers of Family Vlogging.
Ll
@@jennprescott2757 very interesting. I will look into it. An old high school acquaintance became a well known vlogger. They ended up having kids to satisfy their fans and show. 🥺Wild.
So glad that Jinger was on your show! Growing up I thought the Duggar's had similar beliefs to other families I saw in my area that wore only skirts and dresses, but didn't realize till later more of the "why" of why they dressed and acted the way they did. I would say the difference between detangling and deconstruction would be the authority of the Bible...Deconstruction is taking standard Christian theology and church teaching for thousands of years and throwing out anything that doesn't fit modern sensibilities or "feel good" to that person. What Jinger is describing is taking everything she was taught about God and the world and comparing it to what the Bible says with the Bible being the ultimate authority. I also admire how highly she still talks about her parents even if she disagrees with the theology they have been taught.
She has such class! There are so many things she could say but chooses to be graceful with her words. The world needs more like her.
Wow. So encouraging to see how she can condemn the false teaching her parents believed without dishonoring her parents. Such maturity and grace.
Yes, her parents deserve a lot of credit. They handed on their faith, such as it was, to this beautiful young woman, and were loving to her. They guided her successfully, even through an eating disorder.
I have never watched an episode on your channel but I just wanted to say this was an excellent interview. No name calling or shaming just how God has redeemed.