Please take a second to like and subscribe! You all rock and I am so humbled to have a spot where I can share ideas, opinions, and my experience with you all. Thanks for the support.
The Sette 270 is AU$530 and the Niche Zero is around AU$1600. If they are very similar in what they produce there is really only one winner. Just bought the Sette 270 to replace my failed Sunbeam, a AU$200 burr grinder. Has made a huge difference to what I can produce from my 12 yo Rancilio Silva.
Very, very important consideration: The "38mm" burrs in the Sette is the dimensions of the inner burr, while the niche "61mm" is the diameter of the outer ring. The actual burr size isn't *that* different, niche is still bigger ofc.
Lance, you rock! I really like your videos because they complement, rather than repeat, what other people do in TH-cam. You have a more down to earth approach to things, while keeping professional and educational. Keep up the excellent work!
Really hope that you get a chance to do a detailed review of the DF64 similar to what you did with the Baratza Vario. Talking about alignment, modifications, and blind tasting against the Vario + (or modded Vario) would be very cool to watch. So much community discussion is currently revolving around the DF64.
Lance, you rock! Thanks for this video and all the latte art ones - definitely helped to get me in the right direction. Breville Infuser and now Sette 270.
I never would have thought to compare these two and would have assumed it would be no comparison. Thanks for doing this, I actually own the 270wi and feel vindicated. Thanks to Clive Coffee for their advice.
Bro…Idk why I’ve been longing to subscribe. Just did! To me, you are fastly becoming the next James Hoffman. Well explained, well mannered, enthusiastic, connoisseur, and fun! Keep doing what you are doing brother! 👊🏾
I had the Sette 270v2 for 2 years, it's really a good grinder, it produces really fluffly grind without any lumps (in no time) ! Really impressive ! its only weak point is the noise! I sold it and bought a Eureka Mignon Specialita'. I didnt noticed any improvement in flavor or body, maybe a subtle improvement in clarity ? i'm not sure. But it's definitively more quiet, and the build quality and aesthetic is way superior. Keep in mind those grinders were not designed for single dosing. Only the Niche was. Thanks Lance for the video, it's always fun to watch !
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Ahah yeah, good point :D noisy but in a short amount of time because it's fast. 😅 but i prefer the Specialita too :p two times slower but really quiet ! @Lance Hedrick Mignon Single dose is coming soon :D Merry Christmas guys !
Absolutely. The whole point of diminishing returns. My impetus for this video was in response to the insane difficulty of obtaining a niche. I hope people see this and know if they can't get a niche, it's not the end of the world haha
@@LanceHedrick very glad to hear, also your channel has opened up all sort of possibilities...life has given me rainbows recently and I want to make Informed and smart purchases that will make sense in my mouth:)
I have had the sette for 6 months now. Yes, it is loud, it is 10 seconds of your day - get over it. For the ultra low retention, reliability, small footprint and reasonable price point I have been very happy with it. I got the base model for less than $300 US, it did not have the step-less ring and I thought I would not need it. As I get further into making espresso I can see the benefit to having that option. It is available for an extra $100 and I will buy it in the future, easy to add on. Because I prefer to single dose I did not need the features of the 270wi. I did have to use their customer service and it was as fantastic as everyone says it is (I messed up the one/off micro switch when I first cleaned the burrs, newer models don’t have that fail point.). Excellent comparison review, LH does a great job. Clear example of the law of diminishing returns, I will spend the difference on good coffee beans.
Hey Lance! It would be also really interesting to carry out the similar battle between handgrinders for pourover (or other filter brewing methods), for example 1Zpresso (J or K series), or Timemore (popular C2 or their premium X model) vs Comandante. Price difference is like double, but some people say taste difference is negligible. Would be really nice to hear your opinion
I’m very new to the realm of nice home coffee, but I’ve found the sette fits perfectly into my tastes. I really like darker, bitterer roasts and brews and (likely because of this) have found the sette perfect for infusion brews or things like the hario switch. Plus its impossible to argue with the price to performance ratio. While I might enjoy the niche if I ever get my hands on it, I can see almost anyone getting into home espresso getting years out of a sette.
“Lance U Rock” I’m very happy you made this video. I have the Sette 270 and always wondered if ‘upgrading’ to the Niche was necessary. Glad to know. The Breville Dual Boiler with Sette 270 was actually my home workhorse team for years (until I sold my BDB in order to preorder the long-awaiting Odyssey Espresso Argos). FWIW- I also got a 3D printed single-dose hopper with a weighted auger for my Sette, and found the quality of the grounds was improved as a result. Thanks again, and keep up the great content.
Thanks, Lance. My Niche arrived back in October after struggling to buy one for several months. I went through more espresso than I would have expected during the first week of ownership, but the Niche is doing great now. The espresso tastes really good.
Hey Lance, what was the roast level on those beans? I've been tempted by the Niche because I've heard it's better for light roasts than the Sette, while they might perform similarly on medium to dark. Is that true? Would love to get some comparative tasting across multiple coffees, doesn't need to be a blind test. This topic is one I've been waiting a long time for someone to do, so thanks!
I had a sette for a couple of years and upgraded it for a niche a year ago. The difference in shots wasn’t as big as I had thought it would be. But I’m sure the niche will still be grinding long after the sette is dead. Th niche has far superior build quality. And if you’re into light roasted coffee I don’t think the sette will handle the density and hardness in the long run. No problem with the niche there. I liked the sette but I have no regret upgrading to the niche.
Exactly! Not a big deal. But, in the long run, for some people who have the means, the niche could be a much better option for build quality and for not having to do replacements
@@LanceHedrick I had to repair mine. The gear box is 50 EU and It's a pain to install. Doable for someone who's handy, but certainly not for everyone. The simpler repair is the motor+gearbox combo. It's about 100 EU. A lot easier to install, but still not trivial. Since it's bound to break down after about 1500 grinds, the Sette is not a grinder I would recommend. If I had known this, I wouldn't have gotten the sette. Now I'm stuck with a loud grinder that requires a finicky repair every three years.
Hey Lance- You rock! I think this was a great idea for a video and was well executed and I enjoyed it. However, I did have a few suggestions that I think could make comparisons videos like these even better. First, I think instead of just talking about the workflow, maybe we could watch your workflow with both grinders for just the first shot. That way u can talk about as well as show the real world impacts of the improvements of the Niche and show how it’s easier, faster, better distribution, sound while actually grinding, etc. This would seemingly be more useful than just mentioning those concepts. My second suggestion is with regards to the stirring. I really enjoy your video style and transparency in process and I do think it’s a good idea to show it for the first shot to mitigate questions, but showing the thorough stirring on the 2nd and 3rd shots instead of just mentioning that you repeated the procedure seemed like video time better spent on showing the shots or the workflow. Lastly, I focused on trying to guess which one was the Niche, rather than which one you preferred. For the 2nd shot, you guessed wrong because of the body but the other one was more clear and was the Niche. Which did you prefer and why? Would some prefer the body? I think focusing on what is better and worse within the shots is more useful than just seeing if a talented coffee professional can guess the grinder. Anyways, love the content, keep up the great work, and hopefully the feedback is received in the spirit in which it was intended. Merry Christmas
Thanks for the comment. Tried to speak in terms that were not subjective in the sense that I was telling which one I preferred but more so giving terms that I thought represented the cups well so that you could draw your own conclusions. If you go back and watch the tastings, you will see that I was quite descriptive with what I was tasting. But but, your notes are definitely noted and I will do better in the future
I had the Sette 270 for about 3 years and upgraded to the Niche last year. I find the Niche a bit easier to dial-in my shots and cleanup is great. Adding the portastand and funnel from Decent makes it an even better setup as the metal cup isn't great for grinds with some static. But the big complaint I had with the Sette was that it was too darn loud (obnoxiously so in a home setting). My wife is so much happier now that she can sleep in on weekends :).
Absolutely! So you have noticed that the taste is not incredibly different, though there are certainly differences, the biggest upgrade is in the quality of build, the quietness of the grinding, and the workflow.
Prior to grinding. Dose beans in a dosing jar, one spritz of water OR two (and I mean two) droplets of water. Shake the jar with your hand covering the opening, then dump in grinder and go!
Lance, you rock! Here in Aust, the Sette 270 (not the Wi) is currently on sale for AUD $539 and the Niche is on sale as well from the same online store for AUD $1789. While we could probably find them cheaper if we looked hard enough, the Niche is still 3x more expensive than the Sette. The Sette was on my list for a new grinder to upgrade from my Breville SGP but instead went with the Urbanic 070s from Lance's Budget Grinder Showdown video from last month. The Urbanic with titanium burrs from Amazon was AUD $450 landed in Aust. More than happy to have the option of a flat burr grinder at that price.
Absolutely! I'm so glad that you went with that grinder. It truly is a fantastic grinder. And if you take some Teflon tape and put them on the threads you can make the knob stepless. Which will open up a whole new host of different grind sizes.
@@LanceHedrick Thanks for that tip Lance, that will be my job for tomorrow. Thanks again for your awesome videos!! My Kono dripper arrived today in the mail and we have just tried your first recipe which we loved. Will have a go at the second recipe tomorrow and then look for some teflon tape. ;)
Now that was useful. I was happy with my Sette 30 with the 270 adjustment ring. Did month of research. It is loud, yes but I am single and it does not bother anybody and its only for a few seconds anyways. I always thought the high prices of some grinders are insane and way out of my reach. The Niche is beautiful though. But you confirmed my suspicion that after you reached a good level, it does not make a huge difference and definitely not a several hundred dollars or thousand dollar difference. I am now very happy with my Sette and concentrate now to find a good espresso machine I can afford. My current machine is OK. Got it for $40 on Facebook. Was $1500 new but it is not as manual as I want it to be so.... Almost saved up for a Gaggia. :-) By the way... You rock!
GREAT timing on this video! I have had the Sette 270 for over a year and a half now and have a love/hate relationship with it. I like the way it looks, it works pretty well for single dosing and make good grinds. but GOD I am sick of the noise!!! (also annoyed on how the dial tends to move while grinding). So after much debate I finally ordered my Niche Zero this week and this video re-assures me that I made the right choice!!! Thanks!!
Yes! Congratulations on getting one! They are definitely fantastic grinders and will be a huge step up in work flow and consistency from your current setup
Having had both of these, Lance is spot on. The flavor for money is not significantly different. However, the work flow on the Niche is certainly superior which is a small thing that adds up with daily use. Additionally, Baratza’s great customer service not withstanding, the Niche is noticeably quieter and built much more solidly (less likely to need service).
From my experience the most obvious difference of two grinders with same type of burr (conical here) is gonna be clarity, which is the most significant influence of fines in the taste. Other than that, all the "body", "sweetness" etc is very subjective. However, flat burr can have a rather big difference in taste vs conical, as the shape of the ground particles are different when inspected closely, which will influence the total surface area given a similar ground particle size.
Absolutely! You have nailed it right on the head, Martin! Thank you for sharing this. I will definitely hit more of this in future videos when I dive more into flat burr sets, but it's nice that you have put this here for people to see.
I got frustrated with my Sette 270. The noise is one issue but that is not what frustrated me. I despise the adjustment on the Sette. I could spend a long time dialing in an espresso bean. Then if I move to a courser Aeropress setting, moving back to the finer espresso setting produces a completely different result. It was infuriating. I had to start from scratch again. After a few times of that I ordered the Niche.
Lance.... you rock Love this kind of vid, more of these comparisons please! Lots of reviews focus too much on design, work flow etc rather than quality in the cup. And the comparison between different products is so useful. Df64 vs cheap 60mm flats vs Forte would be really cool
I need to finally just pony up and buy DF 64. I'm just so low on money. I've been blowing through my monthly budget through patreon like it's going out of style haha
Nice simple explanation. No "extra" montage or special effect used. Just grinder and coffee. Love it. I favor Niche Zero also but almost fed up waiting for stock to come
@@LanceHedrick sorry for the weird English I was using voice to text. My name is Matt! I spoke with you off of bears phone a month or two back! Thanks for helping me improve!
I owned Baratzas for years. I liked them but not the sound. I got about 5 years out of each. Then I used the Lido hand grinder for a decade. I can not go back to the sound of the Baratzas. Now I have the Niche Zero. It actually sounds so nice. The Build quality is at another level. It may be the last grinder I buy. Time will tell. I love the Niche for my clever-dipper water first method. The more round shaped grinds fall to the bed before the fines. I get 30 second pour-downs with 31 grams of coffee & 500 grams of water. And yummy coffee.
@@LanceHedrick Honestly I think I might. With my 400 micron Kruve screen- less than a gram of fines with 31 grams of beans. (fines role in pour-over are complicated though) I can easily be overwhelmed by the main flavors and lose the symphony of subtle flavor changes from beginning middle and to the long. I also like my flavors on a velvety silky pallet for my flavors. Niche delivers for me in these two areas. I found that I have to grind significantly more coarse with the Niche in my pour-overs(maybe the because the Niche creates a less uniform grind size). If I were to compare pour-overs with the Niche to a flat burr grinder, I would not use the same pour over recipe. I would not be getting the best out of one of them-or both. As a 25 year coffee enthusiast(My coffee journey started at Intelligentsia's first cafe on on Broadway in Chicago), we are in a high-point for grinders. Incredible high-quality choices and options--for every brew method and for every palette! When I bought my first Lido-that was basically it(in my budget;). Now so many great choices--easily at the level of the Niche. Good times :)
Lance, you rock. I really dig the concise, but in depth nature of your videos. I was wondering what espresso setup you think meets the point of diminishing returns. I’d like to buy once and not have to consider upgrading (at least for a while lol). What is, in your opinion, the best espresso grinder and espresso machine “for the money”. I’m willing to spend more for things like speed, quiet operation, and a “seamless” user experienc. And of course tasty espresso. I also really like making milk based drink. Big milk guy lol. Thanks for you time, Lance.
Hey Alex! In my opinion, which I feel I've made pretty clear in my videos though I know I have a ton to wade through, I believe the endgame budget setup is something like a Breville dual boiler for the espresso machine and then if you are more so into milk drinks than anything else, honestly the niche grinder is incredible. On the other hand you could get the vario grinder which I have made a video on because it can do both filter coffee and espresso quite well.
Thanks Lance your awesome 👍😉 Happy to hear that the sette holds up the way it does. I have had my eye on the Niche since it came out but the price tag is just too steep! I ended up getting the sette and I love it (maybe more so now even 😂)
Thanks Lance, you rock! Love your videos and you have already helped me improve my espresso dramatically across your videos. I am looking at upgrading my grinder from the ECM C54 as I can’t fine tune it enough depending on the beans. The Niche looks awesome and is in my budget, I love that it is stepless and the workflow is perfect for me, but I am not sure if flat or conical is more preferable for espresso. Do you recommend the Niche or something else with that budget in mind? I am even happy to shell out a bit more for something very special.
So, you know, you really do rock. Initially I was using an M47 for espresso, and I was able to dial in pretty much as I needed to. But as I’m sure you know it’s a lot of work. When I got my Niche, the biggest difference I noticed was how fluffy the grind was, I ended up moving to a larger basket 😳
Dope video. Thanks for the awesome comparison. There’s always more expensive things, new things and hype. But this day in age we can make great coffee on fairly in expensive equipment. Case and point your cheap vertical burr grinder video.
Absolutely. Weighing pros and cons and price are all considerations, of course. But, I mainly wanted to dispel the FOMO so many have on missing out on these. They're great (niche) but not revolutionary imo
Sadly, that is the nature of espresso. Your shots are always going to vary a little bit based off of the nature of coffee beans being different in every sample dose you take. On top of that, the high pressure and the Is difficulty of being perfect with putt preparation every shot is impossible
Good comparison, but with that espresso machine you can't get consistent shots even if you have 2k dollars grinder. You need a real prosumer machine which makes every single shot the same. I have the breville and no shot is the same, made over 10k shots with it in 4 years of use.
Had the Sette 270 for a few years (had the 270w before, until it broke). I now have an issue with the 270 where the grind adjusting ring vibrates round making the grind more course. As for the noise, ok it is louder, but lets get real, its only running for 5-6 seconds. Steaming my milk is equally as loud and for far longer too.
@@LanceHedrick Its nothing to do with the threads though. The micro adjuster ring 'clicks' into each step with 2 ball bearings. Its as if these bearings aren't locking it into each step allowing it to vibrate round. I have a video on my TH-cam channel showing what i mean. I have messaged Baratza and will see what they suggest. This is the second machine i have had. The first was the 270w that packed up after only a couple of months. It was repaired and then broke again and they suggested i go for this instead, which i did.
I have the Sette 270 Wi paired with Gaggia Classic (modded) and while the espresso tastes great its far from the best coffee I ever tried. So I've been considering to upgrade the grinder, but I tried the espresso from coffee shops with Atom 75 and Mazzer Super Jolly and they are just soo much sourer and too bright (I know the blend would be different but can't think of another way to compare with other grinders). In the end I still keep the Sette for the easiness of grinding by pressing a single button until something with bigger burrs that's not ridiculously expensive comes on the market. Btw if you're willing to open up the Sette and fill it with sound deadening it lowers the noise by a few decibels and lowers the pitch.
yeah the niche is just over $1200 USD where I am. The Sette is unbelievably loud in comparison but I don't think it's all that bad. if someone ends up coming up with a noise reduction noise kit, it'd be awesome.
Hey Lance you rock! Would love to see a more in depth review of the 7. I own one and I find dialling in quite hard, difficult to predict how much a letter in microdial will change in seconds
I'm sure the burr size and geometry played a part in it, but I know flat burrs at lower rpm generally give more clarity, and less body (less fines most likely), and higher rpm = more body and less clarity (more fines most likely), so I'm thinking that was a factor as well here.
Congratulations! I think you will love it. While I'm critical of it in the video, it is an exceprional grinder. Both from a quality of build point of view to a user friendly point of view
We use the Sette 270wi for our decaf in our cafe. The noise is... not pleasant.. But honestly I cant hold a conversation over our Eureka Olympus either. The amount of plastic in the Sette is a bit... unfortunate. But it keeps the cost down. Always tradeoffs. The 'close switch' broke on it which is annoying... but $10 to fix. I have a DF64 coming in next week we might try for a single origin offering for a couple weeks before it is relegated to home use. I'm curious how it holds up in a cafe environment. If you are looking for something else to review, the picopresso is on my radar. Few reviews of it out there. I just sold my nanopresso to justify getting the pico for camping/travel. Will pair with a 1zpresso K-plus that i use for filter... travel is usually an aeropress but with the picopresso I can up my game. If it was just to pair with the pico I would have gotten the J-max, but having multiple electric grinders at home seems... silly... so I got the Kplus for filter and to up my travel game (vs pre-grinding before a trip).
I’m normally a 19 - 20 g in, 38 out, but tried your twenty and fifty today (twice!). Not sure which I like better, but happy to have two recipes. It really worked with the Honduras I have, and the juiciness my Vario with SS burrs brought out. Cheers!
Could you give me an idea of what you're referring to? Into? Are you wanting videos on green buying or on roasting or on tasting or on grading? I have a lot of videos planned, but I'm hitting things that I think are pertinent to the current situation into my current following base. Thank you for engaging
My complaints wth my Sette 270 are: - ITS INCREDIBLY LOUD!!! 87 decibels. No conversation can continue in a 25m radius when I grind a shot. - Not robust - a tiny spash of water from my steamer killed the LCD screen.. TWICE! The bean flow control plastic bit broke off inside the hopper without impacting anything. Had to replace the gearbox as well. Sure they fix it, but I have no good coffee in the mean time!
excellent thanks! I guess as a flat white drinker either of these will be fine for me. Perhaps I should be saving my money for some nice beans and ear plugs :)
Same. I only keep a day or two of beans in the hopper and grinding to weight directly into the portafilter is just sooooo easy. Especially for that first Americano at 5am, hitting my 18g preset is super easy and doesn’t require any thinking or fine motor skills.
Pros on the Sette: Price, Speed, Pros on the Niche, Nice to use, Quiet, Cons on the Sette: Loud, may not last without repairs Cons on the Niche: More $$, Maybe hard to get (or a bit of a wait).
Going from the 270wi to the Niche, the biggest difference to me was the ease of dialing in. Maybe I didn't know what I was doing, but I had such a hard time with the settle.
I bought the Sette 30, later bought the adjustment to upgrade to capacity of the 270 which I think is a great option with Baratza. I use the 270 for espresso & pour over-no complaints.
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Please take a second to like and subscribe! You all rock and I am so humbled to have a spot where I can share ideas, opinions, and my experience with you all. Thanks for the support.
I mean, my analyses on the cups produced were spot on. Happy to do more tasting to prove this in future videos
Hey Lance , happy holidays 🎄🎄
Glad to see your rocking!!!!🙏🏼😀💪
Let’s go get tattoos!!!
Happy holiday's Eric! I hope you're holding down the West Coast for me
The Sette 270 is AU$530 and the Niche Zero is around AU$1600. If they are very similar in what they produce there is really only one winner. Just bought the Sette 270 to replace my failed Sunbeam, a AU$200 burr grinder. Has made a huge difference to what I can produce from my 12 yo Rancilio Silva.
Very, very important consideration: The "38mm" burrs in the Sette is the dimensions of the inner burr, while the niche "61mm" is the diameter of the outer ring. The actual burr size isn't *that* different, niche is still bigger ofc.
Good call.
Good point, I was kind of chocked when he mentioned the size difference!! :)
You'd think they'd market it as the larger, number that's generally what they do! Like peak wattage for speakers.
size does matter said by my mistress!
Lance, you rock! I really like your videos because they complement, rather than repeat, what other people do in TH-cam. You have a more down to earth approach to things, while keeping professional and educational. Keep up the excellent work!
Thank you so much Jose! That means a lot. I'm so stoked you're here to support
Really hope that you get a chance to do a detailed review of the DF64 similar to what you did with the Baratza Vario. Talking about alignment, modifications, and blind tasting against the Vario + (or modded Vario) would be very cool to watch. So much community discussion is currently revolving around the DF64.
Lance, you rock! Thanks for this video and all the latte art ones - definitely helped to get me in the right direction. Breville Infuser and now Sette 270.
Fantastic! That is wonderful news. Thanks for taking the time to drop a comment!
I never would have thought to compare these two and would have assumed it would be no comparison. Thanks for doing this, I actually own the 270wi and feel vindicated. Thanks to Clive Coffee for their advice.
Bro…Idk why I’ve been longing to subscribe. Just did! To me, you are fastly becoming the next James Hoffman. Well explained, well mannered, enthusiastic, connoisseur, and fun! Keep doing what you are doing brother! 👊🏾
Thank you so much! Means a lot. Really appreciate the support and kind words!
I had the Sette 270v2 for 2 years, it's really a good grinder, it produces really fluffly grind without any lumps (in no time) ! Really impressive ! its only weak point is the noise! I sold it and bought a Eureka Mignon Specialita'. I didnt noticed any improvement in flavor or body, maybe a subtle improvement in clarity ? i'm not sure. But it's definitively more quiet, and the build quality and aesthetic is way superior. Keep in mind those grinders were not designed for single dosing. Only the Niche was. Thanks Lance for the video, it's always fun to watch !
I went the same route you did. Can't really have a Sette with sleeping kiddos in the house! I love the Specialita!
Thank you for sharing your experience! And what you said sounds right. I would suspect higher clarity in the grinder you now have
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Ahah yeah, good point :D noisy but in a short amount of time because it's fast. 😅 but i prefer the Specialita too :p two times slower but really quiet !
@Lance Hedrick Mignon Single dose is coming soon :D Merry Christmas guys !
Single dose! Nice! I need to get my grimy barista fingers on one
Lance you rock. Also, you rock. Keep on rocking in the free world.
Appreciate the honest comparison, it really shows how difficult it is to taste differences at some point when the grinders are "good enough"
Absolutely. The whole point of diminishing returns. My impetus for this video was in response to the insane difficulty of obtaining a niche. I hope people see this and know if they can't get a niche, it's not the end of the world haha
@@LanceHedrick very glad to hear, also your channel has opened up all sort of possibilities...life has given me rainbows recently and I want to make Informed and smart purchases that will make sense in my mouth:)
Heck yeah! Love to hear that
I have had the sette for 6 months now. Yes, it is loud, it is 10 seconds of your day - get over it. For the ultra low retention, reliability, small footprint and reasonable price point I have been very happy with it. I got the base model for less than $300 US, it did not have the step-less ring and I thought I would not need it. As I get further into making espresso I can see the benefit to having that option. It is available for an extra $100 and I will buy it in the future, easy to add on. Because I prefer to single dose I did not need the features of the 270wi. I did have to use their customer service and it was as fantastic as everyone says it is (I messed up the one/off micro switch when I first cleaned the burrs, newer models don’t have that fail point.). Excellent comparison review, LH does a great job. Clear example of the law of diminishing returns, I will spend the difference on good coffee beans.
I wish they made the Sette in different colors like white and maybe less plastic components. I would pay $100 bucks more for that
So incredibly looking for this viddy. Lance your Rock!
Hey Lance! It would be also really interesting to carry out the similar battle between handgrinders for pourover (or other filter brewing methods), for example 1Zpresso (J or K series), or Timemore (popular C2 or their premium X model) vs Comandante. Price difference is like double, but some people say taste difference is negligible. Would be really nice to hear your opinion
Would love to see this content Michael!
Funny you ask this-I am currently working on one of these videos with 6 hand grinders that I think are at the best
Lance you rock.
And thanks for your job, it's amazing. I love nerdiness and thoroughness in your videos, right on point.
Thank you so much Jose! Your comment means a lot.. Appreciate the support!
When you have the opportunity please do a Eureka Mignon SD vs Niche comparison. You rock.
I will see about getting my hands on one of those as soon as possible
Lance, you ROCK.
Lance… 9 months later you still rocked it. Thanks for sharing the knowledge!
exactly the video I needed! thanks Lance!
I’m very new to the realm of nice home coffee, but I’ve found the sette fits perfectly into my tastes. I really like darker, bitterer roasts and brews and (likely because of this) have found the sette perfect for infusion brews or things like the hario switch. Plus its impossible to argue with the price to performance ratio. While I might enjoy the niche if I ever get my hands on it, I can see almost anyone getting into home espresso getting years out of a sette.
Lance you Rock!
“Lance U Rock”
I’m very happy you made this video. I have the Sette 270 and always wondered if ‘upgrading’ to the Niche was necessary. Glad to know.
The Breville Dual Boiler with Sette 270 was actually my home workhorse team for years (until I sold my BDB in order to preorder the long-awaiting Odyssey Espresso Argos).
FWIW- I also got a 3D printed single-dose hopper with a weighted auger for my Sette, and found the quality of the grounds was improved as a result.
Thanks again, and keep up the great content.
I think I'm going to get one of those lever machines when they come out. I'm excited to mess around with it
Lance, you rock.
Thanks, Lance. My Niche arrived back in October after struggling to buy one for several months. I went through more espresso than I would have expected during the first week of ownership, but the Niche is doing great now. The espresso tastes really good.
They are great grinders! When considering workflow x quality x aesthetics, hard to beat
Thank you Lance, you rock. I’m still searching and researching budget grinders.
That is awesome! I hope you find some useful information on my channel
Hey Lance, what was the roast level on those beans? I've been tempted by the Niche because I've heard it's better for light roasts than the Sette, while they might perform similarly on medium to dark. Is that true? Would love to get some comparative tasting across multiple coffees, doesn't need to be a blind test. This topic is one I've been waiting a long time for someone to do, so thanks!
The coffee was light! I almost exclusively drink lightly roasted coffees and have used the sette for years with them
Thanks for the great content and easily reachability for questions! Awesome!
For sure! Thank you for watching and supporting!
I had a sette for a couple of years and upgraded it for a niche a year ago. The difference in shots wasn’t as big as I had thought it would be. But I’m sure the niche will still be grinding long after the sette is dead. Th niche has far superior build quality. And if you’re into light roasted coffee I don’t think the sette will handle the density and hardness in the long run. No problem with the niche there. I liked the sette but I have no regret upgrading to the niche.
Agreed! 100%. Thank you for this comment!
Thank you for your comment. Sadly, I can't hear you over my Sette 270.
When my Sette dies, I order a $40 part, get it in under a week, install in five minutes, and I’m up and running again. Not a big deal.
Exactly! Not a big deal. But, in the long run, for some people who have the means, the niche could be a much better option for build quality and for not having to do replacements
@@LanceHedrick
I had to repair mine. The gear box is 50 EU and It's a pain to install. Doable for someone who's handy, but certainly not for everyone. The simpler repair is the motor+gearbox combo. It's about 100 EU. A lot easier to install, but still not trivial.
Since it's bound to break down after about 1500 grinds, the Sette is not a grinder I would recommend. If I had known this, I wouldn't have gotten the sette. Now I'm stuck with a loud grinder that requires a finicky repair every three years.
Hey Lance- You rock!
I think this was a great idea for a video and was well executed and I enjoyed it. However, I did have a few suggestions that I think could make comparisons videos like these even better. First, I think instead of just talking about the workflow, maybe we could watch your workflow with both grinders for just the first shot. That way u can talk about as well as show the real world impacts of the improvements of the Niche and show how it’s easier, faster, better distribution, sound while actually grinding, etc. This would seemingly be more useful than just mentioning those concepts. My second suggestion is with regards to the stirring. I really enjoy your video style and transparency in process and I do think it’s a good idea to show it for the first shot to mitigate questions, but showing the thorough stirring on the 2nd and 3rd shots instead of just mentioning that you repeated the procedure seemed like video time better spent on showing the shots or the workflow. Lastly, I focused on trying to guess which one was the Niche, rather than which one you preferred. For the 2nd shot, you guessed wrong because of the body but the other one was more clear and was the Niche. Which did you prefer and why? Would some prefer the body? I think focusing on what is better and worse within the shots is more useful than just seeing if a talented coffee professional can guess the grinder.
Anyways, love the content, keep up the great work, and hopefully the feedback is received in the spirit in which it was intended. Merry Christmas
Thanks for the comment. Tried to speak in terms that were not subjective in the sense that I was telling which one I preferred but more so giving terms that I thought represented the cups well so that you could draw your own conclusions. If you go back and watch the tastings, you will see that I was quite descriptive with what I was tasting. But but, your notes are definitely noted and I will do better in the future
I had the Sette 270 for about 3 years and upgraded to the Niche last year. I find the Niche a bit easier to dial-in my shots and cleanup is great. Adding the portastand and funnel from Decent makes it an even better setup as the metal cup isn't great for grinds with some static. But the big complaint I had with the Sette was that it was too darn loud (obnoxiously so in a home setting). My wife is so much happier now that she can sleep in on weekends :).
Absolutely! So you have noticed that the taste is not incredibly different, though there are certainly differences, the biggest upgrade is in the quality of build, the quietness of the grinding, and the workflow.
Have you tried adding a spritz of water to negate the static when grinding? It made a huge difference for me with static and chaff spray
Absolutely! RDT is very important foe reducing static.
@@tomfletcher7848 when and how do you apply it?
Prior to grinding. Dose beans in a dosing jar, one spritz of water OR two (and I mean two) droplets of water. Shake the jar with your hand covering the opening, then dump in grinder and go!
Lance, you rock!
Here in Aust, the Sette 270 (not the Wi) is currently on sale for AUD $539 and the Niche is on sale as well from the same online store for AUD $1789. While we could probably find them cheaper if we looked hard enough, the Niche is still 3x more expensive than the Sette.
The Sette was on my list for a new grinder to upgrade from my Breville SGP but instead went with the Urbanic 070s from Lance's Budget Grinder Showdown video from last month. The Urbanic with titanium burrs from Amazon was AUD $450 landed in Aust.
More than happy to have the option of a flat burr grinder at that price.
Absolutely! I'm so glad that you went with that grinder. It truly is a fantastic grinder. And if you take some Teflon tape and put them on the threads you can make the knob stepless. Which will open up a whole new host of different grind sizes.
@@LanceHedrick Thanks for that tip Lance, that will be my job for tomorrow.
Thanks again for your awesome videos!!
My Kono dripper arrived today in the mail and we have just tried your first recipe which we loved. Will have a go at the second recipe tomorrow and then look for some teflon tape.
;)
love it! Thanks for engaging, Steve. Talk soon
Lance, you rock! I love my Sette 270. Thanks for the great comparison, you made me appreciate my grinder even more.
Now that was useful. I was happy with my Sette 30 with the 270 adjustment ring. Did month of research. It is loud, yes but I am single and it does not bother anybody and its only for a few seconds anyways. I always thought the high prices of some grinders are insane and way out of my reach. The Niche is beautiful though. But you confirmed my suspicion that after you reached a good level, it does not make a huge difference and definitely not a several hundred dollars or thousand dollar difference. I am now very happy with my Sette and concentrate now to find a good espresso machine I can afford. My current machine is OK. Got it for $40 on Facebook. Was $1500 new but it is not as manual as I want it to be so.... Almost saved up for a Gaggia. :-)
By the way... You rock!
Heck yeah! Thanks for sharing! I love reading about the set ups of people here. Cheers and happy brewing!
GREAT timing on this video! I have had the Sette 270 for over a year and a half now and have a love/hate relationship with it. I like the way it looks, it works pretty well for single dosing and make good grinds. but GOD I am sick of the noise!!! (also annoyed on how the dial tends to move while grinding). So after much debate I finally ordered my Niche Zero this week and this video re-assures me that I made the right choice!!! Thanks!!
Yes! Congratulations on getting one! They are definitely fantastic grinders and will be a huge step up in work flow and consistency from your current setup
Having had both of these, Lance is spot on. The flavor for money is not significantly different. However, the work flow on the Niche is certainly superior which is a small thing that adds up with daily use. Additionally, Baratza’s great customer service not withstanding, the Niche is noticeably quieter and built much more solidly (less likely to need service).
From my experience the most obvious difference of two grinders with same type of burr (conical here) is gonna be clarity, which is the most significant influence of fines in the taste. Other than that, all the "body", "sweetness" etc is very subjective. However, flat burr can have a rather big difference in taste vs conical, as the shape of the ground particles are different when inspected closely, which will influence the total surface area given a similar ground particle size.
Absolutely! You have nailed it right on the head, Martin! Thank you for sharing this. I will definitely hit more of this in future videos when I dive more into flat burr sets, but it's nice that you have put this here for people to see.
I got frustrated with my Sette 270. The noise is one issue but that is not what frustrated me. I despise the adjustment on the Sette. I could spend a long time dialing in an espresso bean. Then if I move to a courser Aeropress setting, moving back to the finer espresso setting produces a completely different result. It was infuriating. I had to start from scratch again. After a few times of that I ordered the Niche.
Lance.... you rock
Love this kind of vid, more of these comparisons please! Lots of reviews focus too much on design, work flow etc rather than quality in the cup. And the comparison between different products is so useful. Df64 vs cheap 60mm flats vs Forte would be really cool
I need to finally just pony up and buy DF 64. I'm just so low on money. I've been blowing through my monthly budget through patreon like it's going out of style haha
Agree with you, Amen and Amen, superbly fun and superbly done
Thank you so much for the support! Really appreciate it
Nice simple explanation. No "extra" montage or special effect used. Just grinder and coffee. Love it. I favor Niche Zero also but almost fed up waiting for stock to come
The wait for one of the grinders is a little ridiculous. That was actually the impetus for making this video.
@@LanceHedrick Awesome! Any recommendation from Eureka or Mahlkonig? Easier to get
I'd get the x54 and buy the steel burrs from baratza they put in their Forte and switch the burrs, personally
@@LanceHedrick amazing idea! let see if i can find it here
For sure! I think that would be an awesome grinder
Lance, you rock!
Lance Rock I have the pleasure of briefly speaking to him on the phone because I'm an onyx customer and he's very nice and I appreciate that
Hey! Thank you so much for saying that! What is your name? I hope you are doing well!
@@LanceHedrick sorry for the weird English I was using voice to text. My name is Matt! I spoke with you off of bears phone a month or two back! Thanks for helping me improve!
! Very cool! So glad that you're improving and enjoying what you're doing
Hey! My grinder! I never see content about the Sette so thanks.
Fantastic! I hope you enjoyed it
I owned Baratzas for years. I liked them but not the sound. I got about 5 years out of each. Then I used the Lido hand grinder for a decade. I can not go back to the sound of the Baratzas. Now I have the Niche Zero. It actually sounds so nice. The Build quality is at another level. It may be the last grinder I buy. Time will tell. I love the Niche for my clever-dipper water first method. The more round shaped grinds fall to the bed before the fines. I get 30 second pour-downs with 31 grams of coffee & 500 grams of water. And yummy coffee.
Nice! I can't stand the niche for filter. You must have a unicorn machine! Fantastic. Mine lives in a cabinet mostly.
@@LanceHedrick Honestly I think I might. With my 400 micron Kruve screen- less than a gram of fines with 31 grams of beans. (fines role in pour-over are complicated though)
I can easily be overwhelmed by the main flavors and lose the symphony of subtle flavor changes from beginning middle and to the long. I also like my flavors on a velvety silky pallet for my flavors. Niche delivers for me in these two areas.
I found that I have to grind significantly more coarse with the Niche in my pour-overs(maybe the because the Niche creates a less uniform grind size). If I were to compare pour-overs with the Niche to a flat burr grinder, I would not use the same pour over recipe. I would not be getting the best out of one of them-or both.
As a 25 year coffee enthusiast(My coffee journey started at Intelligentsia's first cafe on on Broadway in Chicago), we are in a high-point for grinders. Incredible high-quality choices and options--for every brew method and for every palette! When I bought my first Lido-that was basically it(in my budget;).
Now so many great choices--easily at the level of the Niche. Good times :)
Lance, You Rock!
Lance, you rock.
Lance, you rock. I really dig the concise, but in depth nature of your videos. I was wondering what espresso setup you think meets the point of diminishing returns. I’d like to buy once and not have to consider upgrading (at least for a while lol). What is, in your opinion, the best espresso grinder and espresso machine “for the money”. I’m willing to spend more for things like speed, quiet operation, and a “seamless” user experienc. And of course tasty espresso. I also really like making milk based drink. Big milk guy lol. Thanks for you time, Lance.
Hey Alex! In my opinion, which I feel I've made pretty clear in my videos though I know I have a ton to wade through, I believe the endgame budget setup is something like a Breville dual boiler for the espresso machine and then if you are more so into milk drinks than anything else, honestly the niche grinder is incredible. On the other hand you could get the vario grinder which I have made a video on because it can do both filter coffee and espresso quite well.
Thanks Lance your awesome 👍😉
Happy to hear that the sette holds up the way it does. I have had my eye on the Niche since it came out but the price tag is just too steep! I ended up getting the sette and I love it (maybe more so now even 😂)
Is heck yeah! You got yourself a really good grinder. You're only really missing out on nice workflowing build quality.
Thanks Lance, you rock! Love your videos and you have already helped me improve my espresso dramatically across your videos. I am looking at upgrading my grinder from the ECM C54 as I can’t fine tune it enough depending on the beans. The Niche looks awesome and is in my budget, I love that it is stepless and the workflow is perfect for me, but I am not sure if flat or conical is more preferable for espresso. Do you recommend the Niche or something else with that budget in mind? I am even happy to shell out a bit more for something very special.
If you have the ability to get the lagom p64, I'd highly recommend that!
Hey Lance, is there a way I can contact you directly? Not sure if you have a public email, Unfortunately I am not on Facebook.
kylelancehedrick@gmail.com
I'm ready for the Niche Zero vs Eureka Oro Showdown!
I'll need to get that oro!
Lance you rock!
Lance you rock!
So, you know, you really do rock.
Initially I was using an M47 for espresso, and I was able to dial in pretty much as I needed to. But as I’m sure you know it’s a lot of work. When I got my Niche, the biggest difference I noticed was how fluffy the grind was, I ended up moving to a larger basket 😳
For sure. The grinds are very fluffy. I would recommend getting a coller for your portafilter. It makes preparations so much easier
Dope video.
Thanks for the awesome comparison.
There’s always more expensive things, new things and hype.
But this day in age we can make great coffee on fairly in expensive equipment.
Case and point your cheap vertical burr grinder video.
Absolutely. Weighing pros and cons and price are all considerations, of course. But, I mainly wanted to dispel the FOMO so many have on missing out on these. They're great (niche) but not revolutionary imo
Lance
You
ROCK 🤘🏻
Hey!
Thank
you!
Lance, you rock!
Thank you!
LANCE...YOU ROCK!!!
Nah Tyler. All you, Friend!
Lance you ROCK!
What kills me with the sette 270 is the inconsistency between shots, probably my workflow but interesting to hear your shots were also varied!
Sadly, that is the nature of espresso. Your shots are always going to vary a little bit based off of the nature of coffee beans being different in every sample dose you take. On top of that, the high pressure and the Is difficulty of being perfect with putt preparation every shot is impossible
Lance, you rock! I love your content.
Thank you so much Marty! Your support means a lot
Lance... you rock
Good comparison, but with that espresso machine you can't get consistent shots even if you have 2k dollars grinder. You need a real prosumer machine which makes every single shot the same. I have the breville and no shot is the same, made over 10k shots with it in 4 years of use.
Had the Sette 270 for a few years (had the 270w before, until it broke). I now have an issue with the 270 where the grind adjusting ring vibrates round making the grind more course.
As for the noise, ok it is louder, but lets get real, its only running for 5-6 seconds. Steaming my milk is equally as loud and for far longer too.
If for the issue you are experiencing, find the threads and use some Teflon tape.
@@LanceHedrick Its nothing to do with the threads though.
The micro adjuster ring 'clicks' into each step with 2 ball bearings. Its as if these bearings aren't locking it into each step allowing it to vibrate round. I have a video on my TH-cam channel showing what i mean. I have messaged Baratza and will see what they suggest.
This is the second machine i have had. The first was the 270w that packed up after only a couple of months. It was repaired and then broke again and they suggested i go for this instead, which i did.
Oh interesting! I'd love to see that vid. That's disheartening to hear, friend
Lance, you rock!
What about Sette 270 vs DF64?
I have the Sette 270 Wi paired with Gaggia Classic (modded) and while the espresso tastes great its far from the best coffee I ever tried. So I've been considering to upgrade the grinder, but I tried the espresso from coffee shops with Atom 75 and Mazzer Super Jolly and they are just soo much sourer and too bright (I know the blend would be different but can't think of another way to compare with other grinders). In the end I still keep the Sette for the easiness of grinding by pressing a single button until something with bigger burrs that's not ridiculously expensive comes on the market. Btw if you're willing to open up the Sette and fill it with sound deadening it lowers the noise by a few decibels and lowers the pitch.
Sounds to me like the deciding factor is how much you can tolerate the noise of the sette.
Lol that's a good way to boil it down haha!
“Lance you Rock”
yeah the niche is just over $1200 USD where I am. The Sette is unbelievably loud in comparison but I don't think it's all that bad. if someone ends up coming up with a noise reduction noise kit, it'd be awesome.
An old rocker from way back
Hey Lance you rock! Would love to see a more in depth review of the 7. I own one and I find dialling in quite hard, difficult to predict how much a letter in microdial will change in seconds
For sure. That makes sense. I may try to get that on the queue. List is currently long haha!
I'm sure the burr size and geometry played a part in it, but I know flat burrs at lower rpm generally give more clarity, and less body (less fines most likely), and higher rpm = more body and less clarity (more fines most likely), so I'm thinking that was a factor as well here.
Lance, you rock!
Lance, you rock!
Lance, you rock!
Lance, you rock!
I bought a niche a month ago. I won’t receive it until January but I’m super stoked!
Congratulations! I think you will love it. While I'm critical of it in the video, it is an exceprional grinder. Both from a quality of build point of view to a user friendly point of view
Lance, you rock.
We use the Sette 270wi for our decaf in our cafe. The noise is... not pleasant.. But honestly I cant hold a conversation over our Eureka Olympus either. The amount of plastic in the Sette is a bit... unfortunate. But it keeps the cost down. Always tradeoffs. The 'close switch' broke on it which is annoying... but $10 to fix. I have a DF64 coming in next week we might try for a single origin offering for a couple weeks before it is relegated to home use. I'm curious how it holds up in a cafe environment.
If you are looking for something else to review, the picopresso is on my radar. Few reviews of it out there. I just sold my nanopresso to justify getting the pico for camping/travel. Will pair with a 1zpresso K-plus that i use for filter... travel is usually an aeropress but with the picopresso I can up my game. If it was just to pair with the pico I would have gotten the J-max, but having multiple electric grinders at home seems... silly... so I got the Kplus for filter and to up my travel game (vs pre-grinding before a trip).
I have definitely had my eye on that specific model. I will try to acquire 1. Thanks for watching and supporting!
Oh Lance... you rock🪨
Lance you rock!
Thanks Kane! And thank you for supporting the channel
I’m normally a 19 - 20 g in, 38 out, but tried your twenty and fifty today (twice!). Not sure which I like better, but happy to have two recipes. It really worked with the Honduras I have, and the juiciness my Vario with SS burrs brought out. Cheers!
Absolutely! I have a multitude of recipes. Really depends on the coffee I'm using. I actually usually do even longer shots lol.
Lance, you rock
Eric, you rock!
Less equipment talk, more about actual coffee please!!
Could you give me an idea of what you're referring to? Into? Are you wanting videos on green buying or on roasting or on tasting or on grading? I have a lot of videos planned, but I'm hitting things that I think are pertinent to the current situation into my current following base. Thank you for engaging
Lil late, but lance, you rock
Lance, you rock.
My complaints wth my Sette 270 are:
- ITS INCREDIBLY LOUD!!! 87 decibels. No conversation can continue in a 25m radius when I grind a shot.
- Not robust - a tiny spash of water from my steamer killed the LCD screen.. TWICE! The bean flow control plastic bit broke off inside the hopper without impacting anything. Had to replace the gearbox as well. Sure they fix it, but I have no good coffee in the mean time!
I am enjoying the workflow with the 270 wi and no static for me.. perhaps florida..
Lance, you rock!! ❤
excellent thanks! I guess as a flat white drinker either of these will be fine for me. Perhaps I should be saving my money for some nice beans and ear plugs :)
Some others have commented, try the Eureka Mignon vs the Niche. I have a Eureka and love it. Great buy for the money
I will need to get my hands on one of those. I have the atom 65 at home and have not been impressed
Lance you rock!
Lance, you rock.
I have the 270WI and the workflow is just great without weighing everything. I waste very little coffee dialing things in
True! Workflow is massive
Same. I only keep a day or two of beans in the hopper and grinding to weight directly into the portafilter is just sooooo easy. Especially for that first Americano at 5am, hitting my 18g preset is super easy and doesn’t require any thinking or fine motor skills.
100x Lance you Rock 😉😉
Pros on the Sette: Price, Speed,
Pros on the Niche, Nice to use, Quiet,
Cons on the Sette: Loud, may not last without repairs
Cons on the Niche: More $$, Maybe hard to get (or a bit of a wait).
Going from the 270wi to the Niche, the biggest difference to me was the ease of dialing in. Maybe I didn't know what I was doing, but I had such a hard time with the settle.
Yes. You are correct in that observation. Nothing wrong with your capability of dialing in. thanks for engaging!
Lance, you rock!
I bought the Sette 30, later bought the adjustment to upgrade to capacity of the 270 which I think is a great option with Baratza.
I use the 270 for espresso & pour over-no complaints.
Fantastic! That's awesome!