This is why I’m not a studio engineer. There is a special place in heaven for these people. This is literally my hell. I like making live music but the studio is just something else entirely.
Man this is great!! Funny thing I started using this technique last month not even knowing its actually a technique.. Lol.. I'm confident now!! Thanks bro!!!!
I was about to make a comment "what about using Waves Vocal rider" and then You mentioned using Waves Vocal Rider so... It's all good now :D I'm a happy person
You are teaching me so much.. I am using all your knowledge on this new song I am finishing Can't wait to complete the journey..Thank you so much!!! Great person you are..Wish i could get you to master my tracks and song but will continue and learn...Kitty Terry
Instead of automating the volume and then sending the voice to an aux track, couldn't I just put a gain plugin at the start of my chain and automate it ?
Great news Rob now I Think I finally understand. Thanks very much! I have that Vocal Rider too (and many other Waves-plugins). Makes me very confused when Waves says in the manual that Vocal rider should be the last pluging, but that makes no sense. Of course it shall be the first plugins as you said to write the automation-line, and after that comes compression and other plugins. There is also a 3:d way to write automation similar to clipgain and that´s done by moving the fader up and down, I-ve tried but it´s a bit difficult.
This video was so helpful! I never really considered front-end automation - was doing it the other way around. This made so much sense. Thanks for the great tips!
Great video Rob. Simple thing to do but so effective. Sometimes we fall into the trap of using the compressor to do the heavy lifting when all we needed was some selective clip gain or automation before the compressor. Automate a gain plugin at the head of the effects chain might be the way I'll use this trick. This will leave the vocal treatment all on one channel and keep the volume fader for final automation when getting near the end of the mix. Thx.
Great video as always, Rob! Can't find the cheat sheet link, though! Thanks for your videos they are helping me a LOT and I've gotten back into mixing thanks to you. I had a bit of a low self esteem thing going on in my home setup workflow, but thanks to you I feel a lot more confident! Keep doing what you're doing
What if the vocal track is drowned by the instruments, no matter the amount of gain that you add to it? Maxing out the gain knob (+24dB) makes the track clip, and I wanna keep it in the ballpark (rms -18dBFS). I solve this with make up gain from the compressor that I put afterwards. It does the trick. So the standalone gain knob shown in the video may sometimes just not be enough to get a level for the vocals that can sit well at the forefront of the mix.
You can do clip gain in Logic. I prefer it that way because when you automate the tracks you can’t control the volume by the fader once you put automation on the track.
I dont know if you can do this in logic but in ableton you can copy the automation of one parameter and apply it to another. So in this case I can easily copy the track gain automation and apply it on 'utility'(a simple plugin, used often for gain adjustments)
Great video thanks. There seems to be a debate about the vocal rider, whether it should be used before or after compression, or both. And both arguments makes total sense to a newbie to mixing like me. I guess I’ll try both techniques and just see what sounds best
This is the only video that does what I was thinking of, automation before compression, but I need it in GarageBand! Is adding a Gain before the compressor and then doing an automation on that, the same as what you are doing here? Automation before compression?
If you want your vocals to be even and forward in the mix, like you hear on commercial recordings, use two compressors in series. That’s a standard trick. I’ve never seen anyone automate the levels before compression. That’s what compressors/limiters are for.
In another video you talked about gain automation on the vocals. In this video you are talking about volume automation those are 2 completely different things right? Which one is better?
I made a vocal recording recently and the dynamics are HUGE and that's how i found this video - i just couldn't get the compressor to work. But how do i know how much dynamics to remove with clip gain automation?
Do you have a video for gating breaths out of vocals? I use waves deBreather but it still has breaths in my vocals and I’m totally lost 🤦🏾♂️🙆🏾♂️ I don’t want to cut out the breaths because the vocals won’t sound right
This might be a really Noob question but... Once I have automated the volume how can I bring the entire volume up or down during the rest of the mix? Thanks
Would it make sense to do your gain stage, eq, then volume automation first, then once you’re happy with how it’s sounding, bounce that down and then you can keep it to a single track again? Make sense or am I forgetting any factors that would still require access to those initial steps?
this seems to be quite a time-consuming work without that much of an effect in the end mix if you do it throughout the entire vocal track and not only on some "extreme" peaks or lows. On the other hand, I am quite happy with the stock compressor, using the various presets, rather than tweaking the settings manually. Quite often I use "studio vocal" preset which seems to work well for me.
What is the difference between routing the vox track to separate aux track then put compression on it, and setting the compression plugin to “post-fader” mode?
Awesome Rob! It sounds more natural to my ears if i set the plugin to only reduce loudest peaks gain (range set -6db to 0db). If i allow the quietest parts to go up (maintaining the default -6db +6db range), maybe it doesn't sound as good. What do you recon? Combined with Waves mv2 (upward compressor), i get very consistent and transparent results!
Rob, I've been looking for this answer and can't get a plain, straightforward answer: If my wave form goes outside of the track, do I lose that bit of the signal?
If you have an i-5 CPU at 1.4Khz & 1600Mhz RAM you will need to slow the song tempo down to 50% in order to achieve this same level of automation detail. It is a sloppy mess if your CPU and RAM are slow.
Okay, this really opened my eyes. I've been pulling my hair out over my vocal performances being slightly uneven in volume, and compression/limiters could never fully rectify it, yet this is so simple I cannot believe I hadn't thought about manually automating the volume! Great job on the video, and great tip!
Do you think that a combination of techniques might not be advisable? Specifically, parallel compression can, to a degree, address the disappearing vocal problem. I'm wondering if a vocal would sound overly processed if these techniques are combined.
Many times I prayed but my prayers weren't answered right away.
KLM you cant petition the Lord with prayer ;)
haahhahahha
I prayed to the mix but it still took an entire day to automate
This is why I’m not a studio engineer. There is a special place in heaven for these people. This is literally my hell. I like making live music but the studio is just something else entirely.
Man this is great!! Funny thing I started using this technique last month not even knowing its actually a technique.. Lol.. I'm confident now!! Thanks bro!!!!
I will always use automation after now. Thanks for very nice video.
It's so useful!
blademaster 1 this is facts def on the bandwagon now 💪🏼
I love the sound of this song. The texture in the piano is really awesome too.
MAAAAAAN 🙌🏾 sigh of happiness!! I’m mixing my first song and I’ve been searching for a good video. Thank you 🙏🏾 🤘🏾
I was about to make a comment "what about using Waves Vocal rider" and then You mentioned using Waves Vocal Rider so... It's all good now :D I'm a happy person
Kind of great trick that save energy to find out 'what should I do with my mix' situation!
Thank you, brother!!
You are teaching me so much.. I am using all your knowledge on this new song I am finishing Can't wait to complete the journey..Thank you so much!!! Great person you are..Wish i could get you to master my tracks and song but will continue and learn...Kitty Terry
Instead of automating the volume and then sending the voice to an aux track, couldn't I just put a gain plugin at the start of my chain and automate it ?
yes
You really have a gift for teaching. Thank you for this clear explanation of compression
Would love to hear about how using TWO compressors might change your strategy.
Great news Rob now I Think I finally understand. Thanks very much!
I have that Vocal Rider too (and many other Waves-plugins). Makes me very confused when Waves says in the manual that Vocal rider should be the last pluging, but that makes no sense. Of course it shall be the first plugins as you said to write the automation-line, and after that comes compression and other plugins.
There is also a 3:d way to write automation similar to clipgain and that´s done by moving the fader up and down, I-ve tried but it´s a bit difficult.
This video was so helpful! I never really considered front-end automation - was doing it the other way around. This made so much sense. Thanks for the great tips!
Also, who is the artist? I'm interested in buying the music.
Great video Rob. Simple thing to do but so effective. Sometimes we fall into the trap of using the compressor to do the heavy lifting when all we needed was some selective clip gain or automation before the compressor. Automate a gain plugin at the head of the effects chain might be the way I'll use this trick. This will leave the vocal treatment all on one channel and keep the volume fader for final automation when getting near the end of the mix. Thx.
Great video as always, Rob! Can't find the cheat sheet link, though! Thanks for your videos they are helping me a LOT and I've gotten back into mixing thanks to you. I had a bit of a low self esteem thing going on in my home setup workflow, but thanks to you I feel a lot more confident! Keep doing what you're doing
Whoops! The link is there now!
So glad to hear we could help! Keep it up!
What if the vocal track is drowned by the instruments, no matter the amount of gain that you add to it? Maxing out the gain knob (+24dB) makes the track clip, and I wanna keep it in the ballpark (rms -18dBFS).
I solve this with make up gain from the compressor that I put afterwards. It does the trick. So the standalone gain knob shown in the video may sometimes just not be enough to get a level for the vocals that can sit well at the forefront of the mix.
Excellent tip! This was a nice vocal track for your demo.
You can do clip gain in Logic. I prefer it that way because when you automate the tracks you can’t control the volume by the fader once you put automation on the track.
I could be completely wrong, but I believe that's one of the reasons he setup the output to a separate track with the processing.
I dont know if you can do this in logic but in ableton you can copy the automation of one parameter and apply it to another. So in this case I can easily copy the track gain automation and apply it on 'utility'(a simple plugin, used often for gain adjustments)
Great video thanks. There seems to be a debate about the vocal rider, whether it should be used before or after compression, or both. And both arguments makes total sense to a newbie to mixing like me. I guess I’ll try both techniques and just see what sounds best
Nice!
Great bro! your videos are 10/10! I'm learning a lot with your content! Keep it up!
You’re a GOD! Thank you for this. Now I know I don’t have to buy Vocal Rider. I’ll just do it the old fashioned way THANKS!
Well done tutorial. Thank you.
Our pleasure!
This is the only video that does what I was thinking of, automation before compression, but I need it in GarageBand! Is adding a Gain before the compressor and then doing an automation on that, the same as what you are doing here? Automation before compression?
If you want your vocals to be even and forward in the mix, like you hear on commercial recordings, use two compressors in series. That’s a standard trick.
I’ve never seen anyone automate the levels before compression. That’s what compressors/limiters are for.
Automate + 2 compressors = Radio Vocals
In another video you talked about gain automation on the vocals. In this video you are talking about volume automation those are 2 completely different things right? Which one is better?
I use this technique all the time.
Thanks again for another great video. What do you think of Melodyne, do you use it. Or have you ever used it.
Very good trick, I use it all the time!
I made a vocal recording recently and the dynamics are HUGE and that's how i found this video - i just couldn't get the compressor to work. But how do i know how much dynamics to remove with clip gain automation?
Brilliant video- so helpful- thanks so much for your time :)
Hey man, this is a really cool video, thanks for posting, I will share it and let people know. Keep up the great work mate.
Glad we could help!
Good stuff.
Would automating the input gain on the compressor on your vocal chain do the same thing as your technique here?
Kurt Willems Yes, that's another great way to do this!
4th revision... I feel you bro. This is why I'm at this video tbh, haha
this is so helpful, thank you!!
I am considering buy vocal rider...after watching this...I know what to get...thanks
Do you have a video for gating breaths out of vocals? I use waves deBreather but it still has breaths in my vocals and I’m totally lost 🤦🏾♂️🙆🏾♂️ I don’t want to cut out the breaths because the vocals won’t sound right
This might be a really Noob question but... Once I have automated the volume how can I bring the entire volume up or down during the rest of the mix? Thanks
Would it make sense to do your gain stage, eq, then volume automation first, then once you’re happy with how it’s sounding, bounce that down and then you can keep it to a single track again? Make sense or am I forgetting any factors that would still require access to those initial steps?
Very helpful video. Thanks a lot!
Thanks for watching!
this seems to be quite a time-consuming work without that much of an effect in the end mix if you do it throughout the entire vocal track and not only on some "extreme" peaks or lows. On the other hand, I am quite happy with the stock compressor, using the various presets, rather than tweaking the settings manually. Quite often I use "studio vocal" preset which seems to work well for me.
My compressor isn’t responding to the automation via the side chain
Using the gain plugin and riding that works
AAH THANK U SO GOOD SO CLEAR V HELPFUL
What is the difference between routing the vox track to separate aux track then put compression on it, and setting the compression plugin to “post-fader” mode?
The vocal is being sent to an aux with compression after having been automated. That's the reason for that. :)
Really excellent video. Do you know if there is an automation effect in Audacity?
Thanks! Not sure about Audacity.
Awesome Rob! It sounds more natural to my ears if i set the plugin to only reduce loudest peaks gain (range set -6db to 0db). If i allow the quietest parts to go up (maintaining the default -6db +6db range), maybe it doesn't sound as good. What do you recon? Combined with Waves mv2 (upward compressor), i get very consistent and transparent results!
Whatever works for you! Finding your own sounds and processes is what mixing is all about :) Glad the video helped!
adjusting the clip gain of the vocal so that all of the phrases are a similar level works on this too?
Yes! Similar concept.
I have logic but I dont have waves vocal rider, how to I get it ?? 😭Its not an option under audio units
Vocal Rider is a plugin made by Waves!
You can get outlaw lite its a free plugin by wa production
Rob, I've been looking for this answer and can't get a plain, straightforward answer: If my wave form goes outside of the track, do I lose that bit of the signal?
Depends on how your DAW displays waveforms. The best thing to check is your meters for clipping.
I learned a lot. Thanx!!!
Awesome! Glad we could help.
If you have an i-5 CPU at 1.4Khz & 1600Mhz RAM you will need to slow the song tempo down to 50% in order to achieve this same level of automation detail. It is a sloppy mess if your CPU and RAM are slow.
Okay, this really opened my eyes. I've been pulling my hair out over my vocal performances being slightly uneven in volume, and compression/limiters could never fully rectify it, yet this is so simple I cannot believe I hadn't thought about manually automating the volume! Great job on the video, and great tip!
So glad we could help!
Do you think that a combination of techniques might not be advisable? Specifically, parallel compression can, to a degree, address the disappearing vocal problem. I'm wondering if a vocal would sound overly processed if these techniques are combined.
Great question! And an interesting thought. It would definitely be worth trying out!
You can also compress the vocals first and then apply automation. Afterwards, apply basic automation to the vocal bus.
Ima be honest I do automation but why automate vocals
My jaw physically dropped at 8:39
Cool right?
You didn't explain compression properly. And I didn't hear any change that it made to the vocal. Even your vocal rider settings were not noticiable.😡
this looks like way too much and why would you add gain, shouldnt u only reduce gain because compression will bring those things up with makeup
man you speak too fast hahaha
or maybe i'm too high