Piper Tomahawk- what they don't tell you
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ค. 2022
- PA38 Piper Tomahawk spin stuff and flying tips.
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In a T-34C Mentor I was made to execute a skidded turn stall on my checkride. The intention was for me to lose control. I did. We started at 8,000 ft. and entered a spin around 5,000 ft., and recovered somewhere around 3,000 ft.
Lesson learned.
It was actually designed by very talented engineers for instructors. They could have made it fly differently if they were tasked with that. But they produced exactly what Piper wanted.
As someone considered buying a Tomahawk, this video was extremely helpful and informative...thank you!
You're very welcome! Thanks for the comment!
Ive owned 2 a 1978 and a 1980 Tomohawk II, I have 150 hrs in the Tomohawk and always liked to take family or friends for rides having them look at tail when I stalled or spun them, had many wide eyes look back at me when tail started rocking up and down, I never let the spin to go more than 3 full times and always with aux fuel pump on, never had an issue.
I worked at a FBO in Norman, Ok.we had 6 in our fleet, the only one we had go down was because the instructor let student get to low on simulated forced landing, it was over 100 degrees with a 2000 hour tired engine, they hit hard enough to bend spar with both wings folded up about 3 feet. (student and instructor walked away)
if I could find a well maintained one I would have no worry in buying one, anyone that looks at one the main spar has a time limit of 11,000 hours (could be higher now I didn't look)
HAHA! Yeah that T-tail likes to move around when you're spinning it. It really freaked people out at first, from what I hear. So Piper came out with an AD to reinforce the tail. No tails ever broke, from what I've heard. Even before the AD. Great little plane, in my opinion. And great to teach the basics of flying on. Thanks for the comment!😁
I currently own and enjoy flying my 1979 T-hawk. It's always been my favourite sport/trainer 2 seater since I first tried a brand new one (before stall strips were added) when I was a flight instructor back in the day. My first exploratory, self-checkout spin was actually more of a snap roll! So - WOW! My current aircraft with the stall strips ensures a progressive stall occurs from the inboard to the outboard sections, the ailerons remain effective until break, and the entire sequence feels akin to C-152s and other planes I've spun.
One point I make to people who worry about 'traumahawk' tales usually perpetuated by people who've never flown them. In your flying 'career' you'll probably fly a non-trainer aircraft that may actually be certified "INTENTIONAL SPINS PROHIBITED." Those planes have had very little research done into their stall/spin characteristics. They probably spin suddenly and aggressively, with very little assurance that recovery is even possible in all conditions. So, always follow Caution Item One with any aircraft: Respect the Specific Instructions and Limitations in the POH for that aircraft - and spinning near the ground will be hazardous to your health!
Great video chat about the Mighty T-Hawk. Still my favourite 2-seat sport plane.
Thanks for the in-depth comment! It's hard to not like the plane once you've flown it, eh?😁
The seat tracks are inclined so that if you go full back, it goes full down. As you move full forward it moves full up. Clever
HI Graham , thanks for your video, i m currently doing my recurrent ppl training in cape town, south africa, this video had made me understand the aircraft better.
Thanks, man! Good luck with the flying!😁
Section 4 p.27 of the POH references engine stoppage during spins
LOL! You are correct! I wonder if that was sitting in my subconscious somewhere when things got quiet. Thanks for the great comments!
Your cap and hairstyle make you LOOK artistic 😮 lol
Would you consider addressing Flutter? I noticed in a power on Stall... look behind you at the Horizontal Stabilizer... it was in a state of flutter... that is when I decided .. no more intentional stalls in The Trauma Hawk... thanks for passing on your knowledge.
Thanks for the comment! Yeah, that T-tail flops around a lot, but none have ever broken and Piper came out with a directive to stiffen it up a bit. I've done hundreds of rotations in the Tomahawk and have no hesitation about giving 'er a spin. But everyone has their own comfort level. I know airline captains that hate stalls and spins. You're in good company!
It may have been flopping around a bit but that wasn’t aerodynamic flutter. That is a completely different dynamic and almost always a high speed phenomenon.
Great video , I want to know Is it the best aircraft to learn to fly ? I am planning to go for PPL , and want to buy an a/c.
Hi Benni! The best airplane is the cheapest airplane. Good luck!
Thank you for your FANTASTIC, very helpful video!
4 of these myths are reviewed here:
Pa38 Stall Mush but Not Spin:
th-cam.com/video/FKYp5GNleOw/w-d-xo.html
Pa38 Turning Stall but Not Spin:
th-cam.com/video/K9jNULRkzFc/w-d-xo.html
Pa38 Normal Spin:
th-cam.com/video/_1vwCYDWUx8/w-d-xo.html
Pa 38 Base to Final (x-controlled) Skidding Spin:
th-cam.com/video/M39_KupBeto/w-d-xo.html
Awesome videos! Thanks for sharing them!
I noticed there is never any comparison between the Tomahawk and Beech Skipper. Are these two aircraft so much alike?
Good question! I've never flown a Skipper. I'd imagine the performance would be about the same, but the Skipper would be lighter on the controls. Just a guess. Now you've got me thinking, "Hmm. I wonder where I could get a ride in a Skipper?"
@@superpilotish As a future aircraft owner, I’m looking at time builders with relatively inexpensive annuals. But I’m 265, so useful load will always be my issue.I’ve looked at both Skipper, Tomahawk, C-150 and the Ercoupe.
Training in a Tomahawk…you don’t mention carb icing perhaps contributing to the prop stop?
Airspeed…glued to it…and the ball.
Best ROC…70 kts.
🏴
Good thinking, robinmyman! In both cases, we checked for carburetor ice before the maneuver. The Tomahawk is pretty good for not creating carb ice- even on days where the temperature and humidity are optimum for that. I think I've only gotten it once in about a thousand hours of flying the Tomahawk. Even then I wasn't too sure. Thanks for the comment!😁
@@superpilotish I became very non-complacent about carb icing "that hardly ever happens" when the previous owner took me on a sightseeing flight over some snow capped coastal mountains on a sunny autumn day in B.C.. After several minutes of gradual descent at a low power-setting (i.e. 1800-2000rpm ish) he opened the throttle to continue heading home and the engine went into severe rough! I kicked myself for not actively monitoring his (non) use of carb heat... the engine didn't die, thankfully, we struggled down the rest of the mountainside, stayed high and landed. By the time we'd taxxied in and did a run-up, all was smooth - further assurance that it was "just" carb ice. I later checked the Official Carb Ice guide charts and the temps/humidity were in the "Severe Ice Possible" range. Further reading of the Lyc. engine manual assured me that it is Entirely Fine to leave the carb heat on Hot during an entire approach and landing - just ensure it is off/Cold in case of go around. That's what I routinely do now.
@@gcorriveau6864 Great advice!👍
As an owner. The manual does not require carb heat. Because of the location of the carb it isn’t required. It’s still equiped. Just in case it runs rough. But in most situations the checklist doesn’t call for carb heat
We’re you ever an airline F O or Captain ? AHHHHH ……YES ahhha or ahhha NO ?
Nope. I've been a flight instructor my whole time in the aviation biz. Thanks for the comment!😁
No matter how good your intentions are as the author of this video, your a poor representative for describing the flying qualities of the Tomahawk. If you have watched this video and think you have been provided expert knowledge on the spin qualities of the Tomahawk you are sadly mistaken. Please do yourself the favor and research both the POH and basic aerodynamics and you’ll discover how mistaken and poorly explained this material is. When properly understood, and properly trained the Tomahawk is a safe, reliable and enjoyable little airplane. Like any airplane it does not respect ignorance and poor airmanship.
Thanks for the comment!😁