after so long, (and yes i know its beta still) it feels great to see Elemental shaman doing respectable damage and is high on the list. They kind of Deserve it after being ignored for a long time.
Don't they have a bugged talent that if fixed would make them drop down to mid/right below mid? We should never expect shaman to be anywhere near the top lol. Top spots are reserved for rogue, mage, lock, and occasional udk. Everything else fights for mid and to not be bottom.
Isn't it funny that even when people are supposed to be testing everything out they all play whatever they think is the best? Maybe test everything so they can do a good job balancing.
@Ermji no higher damage doesn't mean more fun. If it was a 1 button rotation and it was highest damage they would all be testing that out. They just want to be top damage.
Man i hope Warcraft Logs will differentiate between the subspeccs now that we have them. Clumping them together in the specc will do the weaker sub speccs no help.
@@Trunka34i assume you mean between pulls, not actually during a fight. You can change hero talents any time you can change your normal talents, so yeah you can change them for a raid boss easily
@@Trunka34 as long as you arent in combat or in a place that keeps you from changing your normal talents, like a mythic plus key, you can change your hero talents. So yeah you can swap between grove and elune between pulls in raid
You mentioned hero talents are supposed to do around 20% of a spec's damage. Aldrachi Reaver does around 50% of havoc's damage, and is over 35% ahead of fel-scarred. Aldrachi Reaver was also seemed to be designed with the goal of making all havoc players either reroll or quit the game, so if it stays on top good luck finding 5% magic damage for your raids.
God as a frost DK lover (breath and no breath. both are incredible on beta right now with their playstyles. both hero talents feel amazing). I REALLY. REALLY hope frost doesnt get fucked over in the crossfire of the inevitable nerf to unholy
Death knight both frost and unholy will go back to low B tier or C tier maybe D tier for frost, like it always does even when they buff them they nerf them right away if they are doing good but wont nerf other specs that are doing good which makes no sense
@@tony9099 As much as this has happened in the past. unless they tune a few key factors WAY WAY back, i think the talent changes for frost will keep it competitive. the scaling they added from both killing machine casting a free glacial advance (applying the weapon enchant MUCH more consistently than the rime proc one. even in addition to) even without needing to have the runeforge on your weapon. as well as icy death torrent (melee crits do frontal damage). they now have a lot more scaling mechanics to allow them to do much better than they did before with gear outside of "do i have enough haste/crit to keep breath up perma?" as they move away from that idea. So unless specifically those 2 things get nerfed in functionality or MAJOR damage nerfs. I have high hopes this time around
@@Gotae27 well ill joing u man i got hopes too that frost stays competitive, and i do like these changes they are very positive for frost and sounds fun aswell love what theyre doing, can only hope they stay good for a whole at least
Oh wow, the 3 button spec, BM hunter is top tier. Haven’t seen that a billion times before. Ridiculous to see such a brain dead spec always being picked
BM hasn't been a 3 button spec for 12 years bro. In TWW it has more buttons than most other ranged specs. It still retains full mobility which makes it easier to play, but calling it a 3 button spec is just ignorant. Explosive Shot Cobra Shot Kill Command Barbed Shot Bestial Wrath Bloodshed Dire Beast Kill Shot That's 8 buttons, not counting their major CD. As a comparison, all mage specs have 6 or less.
@@samward1317 That's still very few buttons for a spec that can attack while moving at all times, and is extremely forgiving in the rotation if a mistake is made. Not to mention very little amount of outside utility they are required to provide for their groups. I've mained BM as well as Frost/Fire Mage at high M+ keys, heroic/mythic raiding and BM is way easier than Mage specs and it's not even close.
@@samward1317Kill shot is an execute with an cd, all the other skills are 30secs click and done shit for st or 1m+cds, wait until you hear what shit rogue is doing between their st filer spamming. Realistically you would be just spamming kill command and mantain frenzy at 3 stacks with barbed shot and using cobra shot when kill command is in cd...that's just 3 buttons lol. BM is just for people that are too coward to be melee and too unskilled to play a caster lol.
I hope survival can be a single target king again. I dont like the bomb build that much, i feel like they just keep removing abilities from survival, rip chakrams and death chakrams, rip serpent sting and its stacking damage i wish they made cleave baseline so you could choose to spend a talent to upgrade it or not.
Sort of yes, but you can also see a lot of those logs are over 3 minutes, which is a decent gauge of sustained dps not just burst. Definitely the earlier the team wipes the better Arcane and UH DK will look due to their burst profile, but I think 3+ mins is starting to get accurate measures
Which is why I ignored the shortest and least valuable one, other logs at 3-4 minutes start to be representative enough Especially if they keep following the results of previous tests with 5-6-7 minute kills of Heroic Bosses
They've barley started with tuning dps right now. These lists are just for fun at this point because tuning is just going to change everything in the next month.
Definitive tuning usually comes down as the expansion releases, and now that we're back to having a week break before Mythic opens, they'll come in that week as well. But Blizzard has a definite track of not completely gutting an OP Spec on release due to the reluctance on angering all the players who rushed to that FOTM pick
Now that we have subbspeccs there is already the problem that only the better subspecc is played on Raid Testing so Blizzard has almost no data to tune the weaker one properly. It will take a month after the raid has openend on live till the weak subspeccs get buffed cause it mostly take Blizz 4-6 weaks to gather data and do something against it.
Also, can you break it up in Subclasses already? A Specc is no longer a specc, its now 2 subspeccs that can wieldly differ in dps/healing or survivability.
@@Izenhart Gotcha, just whenever the numbers do come out if possible. I know a lot of people use youtube to pick mains and they end up disappointed cause theyre not even doing the content most people post about (.ie mythic raiding & super high keys) lol
Im not sure if mythic raid logs that on average didnt get past 2-3 min are the best way to gauge strength. There are a ton of mythic guilds doing the heroic bosses and have full kills on every boss and profile type. When I look at those results they differ heavily from your tier list here other than S tier.
There's an old game design principle which states that the devs should save the players from themselves. Maybe Blizzard should just remove rogue so that people wont feel like they need to play such a terrible class
man, finally arms warrior enjoyers can rejoice because their spec is no longer average. not even that awaken fyrak axe can save you in the first week of the launch
One can argue if you are able to play all (3) class specs hunter is in a better spot than they were most of DF. Between having a good option in ST (BM) and a solid option in AOE (MM/SV) you have an option for most raid bosses. Our buff still sucks dick but it’s better than nothing I suppose.
Hey Izen. As always great content man. Im a tank player, didnt get access to the beta. Could you do one for tanks or reference me to where I could compare? Ive been a VDH main for a long time and cant decide if rerolling or staying
Havoc is in the same boat, except with the most garbage hero tree actually doing good damage. Doesnt matter how much damage it does if it was designed with the goal of "what do havoc players hate the most" as the whole tree, the gameplay is horrible.
Its not fair to base testing reviews on dps in youtube and stream videos. Of course, streamers and youtubers are going to highlight the flashy specs with big numbers. Can you imagine them streaming assassin rogue...booooooring! They are trying to have some semblance of fun too. These are all people that play on the higher end of the game, every class in their hands is going to perform differently than the "average player" these guys are testing mythic in tier without strats and guides from method/echo/limit like most players. They are the 90th% (generally), play what looks fun, and do your best. Half your guilds/ groups are bad at the game on comparison. Have fun with your money, However that looks for you.
LOL specs are doing 10x the damage of others... GG hahahaha omg. WoW is taking several pages out of Diablo 4s book! hhahahaha and people get paid a lot of money to non-stop work on this elusive concept called balance. That's one hell of a cushy job if this is satisfactory to the higher ups after 2 years of work.
Glad I don't have to decide which class to main right now. Most of my toons are in the bottom tier of the dps tierlist.
Start stocking up on some good quality Hopium...there is more than 1 month left!
@@Izenhart I will !!
Feel you pain was rely hoping for shadow main this expansion
@@Kujra Same here, I've always mained shadow.
@@michaelvittori8525 fingers crossed 🤞 balancing goes abit better before release
after so long, (and yes i know its beta still) it feels great to see Elemental shaman doing respectable damage and is high on the list. They kind of Deserve it after being ignored for a long time.
I would need more than that to play the squishiest dps spec in the game.. Squishies like shammies should be able to do more damage to compensate
I just leveled one and thought they would be bad in tww. Glad i was wrong 😁
Don't they have a bugged talent that if fixed would make them drop down to mid/right below mid? We should never expect shaman to be anywhere near the top lol. Top spots are reserved for rogue, mage, lock, and occasional udk. Everything else fights for mid and to not be bottom.
@@ch.kv.i’d suggest checking out all the new defensives shammies got mate
You had to say something DIDN'T YOU!?
Isn't it funny that even when people are supposed to be testing everything out they all play whatever they think is the best? Maybe test everything so they can do a good job balancing.
Indeed, people seem to forget they are testing not practicing.
Anytime i watch a raid fight or an M+ run, its typically filled with Arcane mages. Pretty boring imo
Well because people like to try out stuff that looks more fun to play.
@@Ermji and by everyones own flawed logic, fun to play = doing the most damage.
@Ermji no higher damage doesn't mean more fun. If it was a 1 button rotation and it was highest damage they would all be testing that out. They just want to be top damage.
I love being a rogue main
I feel you I'm a Feral main.
Don't worry you still probably out dps 90% of the community
Man i hope Warcraft Logs will differentiate between the subspeccs now that we have them. Clumping them together in the specc will do the weaker sub speccs no help.
ppl will play the best spec damage wise anyway. Is it possible to change during a fight or is it like covenants?
@@Trunka34i assume you mean between pulls, not actually during a fight. You can change hero talents any time you can change your normal talents, so yeah you can change them for a raid boss easily
@@zuralani1 Can you change your entire hero spec between pulls? Like go from elunes chosen to keeper of the grove as a druid?
@@Trunka34 as long as you arent in combat or in a place that keeps you from changing your normal talents, like a mythic plus key, you can change your hero talents. So yeah you can swap between grove and elune between pulls in raid
Arms blows, again. What a shocker.
Devestation shouldn't be tuned to be below Augmentation. How much love are they going to keep giving Augmentation?
D E L E T E A U G
You mentioned hero talents are supposed to do around 20% of a spec's damage. Aldrachi Reaver does around 50% of havoc's damage, and is over 35% ahead of fel-scarred. Aldrachi Reaver was also seemed to be designed with the goal of making all havoc players either reroll or quit the game, so if it stays on top good luck finding 5% magic damage for your raids.
Truly a sad day. Thanks Izen!
Demolish is arms, not fury.
Feral being bad is iconic to the devs not knowing what to do with the spec
Better for us hardcore feral mains. Less wannabe kitties = less complaining about Bloodtalons.
God as a frost DK lover (breath and no breath. both are incredible on beta right now with their playstyles. both hero talents feel amazing). I REALLY. REALLY hope frost doesnt get fucked over in the crossfire of the inevitable nerf to unholy
Death knight both frost and unholy will go back to low B tier or C tier maybe D tier for frost, like it always does even when they buff them they nerf them right away if they are doing good but wont nerf other specs that are doing good which makes no sense
@@tony9099 As much as this has happened in the past. unless they tune a few key factors WAY WAY back, i think the talent changes for frost will keep it competitive. the scaling they added from both killing machine casting a free glacial advance (applying the weapon enchant MUCH more consistently than the rime proc one. even in addition to) even without needing to have the runeforge on your weapon. as well as icy death torrent (melee crits do frontal damage). they now have a lot more scaling mechanics to allow them to do much better than they did before with gear outside of "do i have enough haste/crit to keep breath up perma?" as they move away from that idea. So unless specifically those 2 things get nerfed in functionality or MAJOR damage nerfs. I have high hopes this time around
@@Gotae27 well ill joing u man i got hopes too that frost stays competitive, and i do like these changes they are very positive for frost and sounds fun aswell love what theyre doing, can only hope they stay good for a whole at least
Oh wow, the 3 button spec, BM hunter is top tier. Haven’t seen that a billion times before. Ridiculous to see such a brain dead spec always being picked
BM hasn't been a 3 button spec for 12 years bro. In TWW it has more buttons than most other ranged specs. It still retains full mobility which makes it easier to play, but calling it a 3 button spec is just ignorant.
Explosive Shot
Cobra Shot
Kill Command
Barbed Shot
Bestial Wrath
Bloodshed
Dire Beast
Kill Shot
That's 8 buttons, not counting their major CD.
As a comparison, all mage specs have 6 or less.
Arc is not far off a 3 button spec... again. Aff is dumbed down. I think this is becoming a design philosophy easing us into eventual pruning 😆
@@samward1317bm is still one of the if not the easiest class to play 😅
@@samward1317 That's still very few buttons for a spec that can attack while moving at all times, and is extremely forgiving in the rotation if a mistake is made. Not to mention very little amount of outside utility they are required to provide for their groups. I've mained BM as well as Frost/Fire Mage at high M+ keys, heroic/mythic raiding and BM is way easier than Mage specs and it's not even close.
@@samward1317Kill shot is an execute with an cd, all the other skills are 30secs click and done shit for st or 1m+cds, wait until you hear what shit rogue is doing between their st filer spamming.
Realistically you would be just spamming kill command and mantain frenzy at 3 stacks with barbed shot and using cobra shot when kill command is in cd...that's just 3 buttons lol.
BM is just for people that are too coward to be melee and too unskilled to play a caster lol.
I hope survival can be a single target king again. I dont like the bomb build that much, i feel like they just keep removing abilities from survival, rip chakrams and death chakrams, rip serpent sting and its stacking damage i wish they made cleave baseline so you could choose to spend a talent to upgrade it or not.
Hmm the problem with the mythic logs is that most of the logs are just the first 10% of the boss and then the raid wipes
Sort of yes, but you can also see a lot of those logs are over 3 minutes, which is a decent gauge of sustained dps not just burst. Definitely the earlier the team wipes the better Arcane and UH DK will look due to their burst profile, but I think 3+ mins is starting to get accurate measures
Which is why I ignored the shortest and least valuable one, other logs at 3-4 minutes start to be representative enough
Especially if they keep following the results of previous tests with 5-6-7 minute kills of Heroic Bosses
Good news is that Blizzard still has time to tweak DPS numbers. Crossing fingers that they make some good decisions.
They've barley started with tuning dps right now. These lists are just for fun at this point because tuning is just going to change everything in the next month.
Definitive tuning usually comes down as the expansion releases, and now that we're back to having a week break before Mythic opens, they'll come in that week as well.
But Blizzard has a definite track of not completely gutting an OP Spec on release due to the reluctance on angering all the players who rushed to that FOTM pick
Now that we have subbspeccs there is already the problem that only the better subspecc is played on Raid Testing so Blizzard has almost no data to tune the weaker one properly. It will take a month after the raid has openend on live till the weak subspeccs get buffed cause it mostly take Blizz 4-6 weaks to gather data and do something against it.
Damn my 2of my 3 TWW mains have one specs in top tier. If shadow priest is that bad, I may replace it with Dragonflight main, lock.
Can you do this for heroic? I feel the bulk of the player base dont really push far into mythic raiding
Can kind of only sum up the results of what Blizzard makes available for testing, this week was just Mythic Raid only
Also, can you break it up in Subclasses already? A Specc is no longer a specc, its now 2 subspeccs that can wieldly differ in dps/healing or survivability.
@@Izenhart Gotcha, just whenever the numbers do come out if possible. I know a lot of people use youtube to pick mains and they end up disappointed cause theyre not even doing the content most people post about (.ie mythic raiding & super high keys) lol
i hope sub rogue gets a little bit more love
Keep hoping bud
I’m not worried about FDK damage.
Death bringer is gonna be a tank and they make your party tankier.
Im not sure if mythic raid logs that on average didnt get past 2-3 min are the best way to gauge strength. There are a ton of mythic guilds doing the heroic bosses and have full kills on every boss and profile type. When I look at those results they differ heavily from your tier list here other than S tier.
Very helpful thank you mate, any link to access the beta logs? :)
Funny that as a CE tank player I have to keep track of the DPS power rankings to get an idea of what I will be playing 🥲😂
Fury gang rise up we dont do anything but atleast we have chad aoe dps :D
Can you help me how can i put boss abilitys on the screen like you have, for example Boss Charge ability? Thank you
There's an old game design principle which states that the devs should save the players from themselves. Maybe Blizzard should just remove rogue so that people wont feel like they need to play such a terrible class
man, finally arms warrior enjoyers can rejoice because their spec is no longer average. not even that awaken fyrak axe can save you in the first week of the launch
How does havoc is in this spot, when every havoc main youtuber almost cry about it state?
So is Elemental running into the same problem that Ret did post rework now? You don't really have a build that can AOE and Single target?
Unholy DK in the Top 3 on Beta? Prepare for nerf bat rectally inserted.
Frl 😂 can't wait to see all the fotm DKs leave my class alone
They already nerfed unholy like 5 times.
One can argue if you are able to play all (3) class specs hunter is in a better spot than they were most of DF. Between having a good option in ST (BM) and a solid option in AOE (MM/SV) you have an option for most raid bosses. Our buff still sucks dick but it’s better than nothing I suppose.
Can someone share a link to this data I cant find it anywhere
Are the logs correctly re-assigning damage to augmentation again in TWW beta ?
Warlock dk monk/rogue enhanc/ surv
Man Priest getting shafted on Disc and Shadow ;____;
You should see the tanks of copium I have for the secret Mythic Raid Meta of a Disc-Oracle build.......It'll happen.....I'm sure of it.....
@@Izenhart let me in on some of that copium lol
Hey Izen. As always great content man. Im a tank player, didnt get access to the beta. Could you do one for tanks or reference me to where I could compare? Ive been a VDH main for a long time and cant decide if rerolling or staying
I will!
Just starting with DPS cause...you know...
Will you be doing a list on M+ as well?
Frost Dk still feels like shit. Rework when ?
You didnt even talk about WW
it feels strange to see 2 classes i like doing great (ele and frost dk)
Give it time, blizzard will put them where they belong...at the bottom. I hope I'm kidding, I hope you get to enjoy them for once at/near the top!!!!
So... retribution dps is sucking now?
That funny see havoc top cause all video put him at low lvl.
Is the elemental shaman good in tww
Rogue is in such a sad state right now. They need reworks desperately, and I'm not sure they're going to get it in time.
Class is dead. So many ppl on the discord swapping mains
Havoc is in the same boat, except with the most garbage hero tree actually doing good damage. Doesnt matter how much damage it does if it was designed with the goal of "what do havoc players hate the most" as the whole tree, the gameplay is horrible.
Rogue can’t be meta it fucks mythic plus remove shroud
where do you get the logs from?
Wtf was that intro xD
He used to do history intros.
Holy paladin Joan of Arc
It’s called history, you kids don’t learn about it anymore sadly and that’s why we’re repeating history.
You're telling me you don't have a shrine dedicated to Joan of Arc in your home?
Get out of here, apostate
@@Izenhart 😄
As a mage I’m so tired of arcane always being bis for raiding at start of expansions
Are the rogue hero talents still bugged?
It's getting....slowly....unbugged....
@@Izenhart standby for last minute bug fix / buff and outlaw is top dps, and probably fire again cause why not, blizzard things
Its not fair to base testing reviews on dps in youtube and stream videos. Of course, streamers and youtubers are going to highlight the flashy specs with big numbers. Can you imagine them streaming assassin rogue...booooooring! They are trying to have some semblance of fun too.
These are all people that play on the higher end of the game, every class in their hands is going to perform differently than the "average player" these guys are testing mythic in tier without strats and guides from method/echo/limit like most players. They are the 90th% (generally), play what looks fun, and do your best. Half your guilds/ groups are bad at the game on comparison. Have fun with your money, However that looks for you.
Bm again over mm or survival can we just agree that this braindead spec should be the worst hunter spec dps wise.
Tired of seeing BM hunters. Easiest class and spec and they top charts always
LOL specs are doing 10x the damage of others... GG hahahaha omg. WoW is taking several pages out of Diablo 4s book! hhahahaha and people get paid a lot of money to non-stop work on this elusive concept called balance. That's one hell of a cushy job if this is satisfactory to the higher ups after 2 years of work.
Numbers tuning has barely started man lol. This is just for entertainment
@@v1llian30 Prepatch is in a week dude. Time is running out.
@@v1llian30 it's been a numbers tuning problem for a decade
shouldnt be any raid testing
you speak like a robot
true its accent is hilarious lol
@@doomdoom9716 i think he is from balkan XD
That's how much the last encounter with your mom scarred me
So? Leave if you don’t like it?
People want ret nerfed as they’re doing laughable damage 😂😂😂 honestly, wow players are all bots at this point. Has to be with such npc comments.
@landrybt you both have no clue what u yapping bout
Ret has been abysmal almost the entirety of WoW.
I say let them have some time in the sun
Wtf is this English? Sounds like super Mario is playing wow
Way to be super duper racist, garbage pile.