Bachelorette - (Greg & Katie #5) - Therapist Reaction
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Dr. Kirk Honda, couples therapist, reacts to Greg and Katie on The Bachelorette. Includes clips from The Bachelorette, season 17.
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Trigger Warning: This episode may include topics such as assault, trauma, and discrimination. If necessary, listeners are encouraged to refrain from listening and care for their safety and well-being.
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#TheBachelorette #PsychologyInSeattle - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![เปิดใจ "อาจารย์เบียร์ คนตื่นธรรม" อดีตเคยสุดทุกทาง ถ้าใช้หนี้หมดไปบวชแน่ l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IxeE0xVhy08/mqdefault.jpg)
I literally wish Dr. Kirk was on this episode saying all this to them would have relieved me of so much stress watching LMAO
Yes!
Something that’s interesting is that very early on, Katie said to Greg: I feel like you’re going to leave at some point and it scares me (something along those lines). Intuition!!
Yeah, exactly. And I think her intuition was seeing red flags the whole time. Which is why she didn't say I love you and quit the show for him. She wanted more time because she wasn't sure.
She said it to him a few times throughout the season! That’s why she was always reassuring him. Intuition for sure
Yes!! This made me think he may have had mini breakdowns that they didn't show.
@@mykidsaresupercute But she told her producers and Kaitlyn she wanted to go home after he left. She invested way too much in a guy she saw red flags in.
“Please take care of yourself because you deserve it. You really, really do.” I know this is Dr. Honda’s outro but for some reason today when I heard it, it made me cry. 😭❤️
Lol so stoked you are doing this part too!!
These clips are so insightful … thank u so much!!! It’s helped me personally a ton and it’s so entertaining ❤️🙌🏽
OMG people cannot at all times be perfectly emotionally attuned to their partners. There are so many people on Twitter, etc. who think that Katie was in the wrong to not perfectly mirror Greg after he poured his heart out. She listened and was kind and understanding that is enough!
well said!
I think the majority are more upset about her conniving, vindictive manner on AFR. That's where she lost the majority of support.
Spreading rumors because she was jilted by a guy she obviously wanted and wanted to make him toxic in the dating pool and in Bachelor circles. Backfired as most saw thru her. 🤣
@@mstea2234 Absolutely nailed it!
Yes!!
@@mstea2234 correct!
Something to remember here is that Katie and Greg watched the last two episodes minutes before having this conversation. Katie and Kaitlyn have both said that after the fight/break up Katie felt like she did something wrong but didn't know what, so watching it and realizing how much she was giving yet Greg was still accusing her of giving him nothing and just up and leaving she was angered, and rightfully so. If Katie had been able to watch it at home, well before speaking to Greg, I think the conversation probably would have been much different. Katie seems like a very reasonable and level-headed person.
I also think hearing him say he had no regrets triggered her. I feel if he said he regretted how he approached things, she wouldn't have been as mad.
Exactly
To me, the non clinical, lay person of usage of "gaslighting" in this case refers to the fact that, despite her clear reassurance to him over and over again, he continues to accuse her to her face that she didn't do that. That she never validated his feelings. And you see her struggle with that in their talks that next day. The "I don't know what I did, but I don't think I did this" thing. And her righteous anger at him in the final show having watched their interactions back shows he made her seriously question whether she did do enough (she did).
True. But he truly believed it to be true, which is not gaslighting in my opinion. To me at least, gaslighting is intentional, done with malice. This guy truly and 100% believed the false narrative he created in his head.
@@LoveLaw right. It's not the clinical definition (purposeful malice) but what I've seen as the common usage. I didn't say it was right.
I feel the same way! She said “im trying to listen to you” and hes like “no your not!” Hes also accusing her of “not being Katie”
I would call that gaslighting because it’s definitely making her question her reality
I struggle with this, because even non-clinically, the word came from an old movie where a husband is trying to make his wife think she’s crazy by changing the gaslights in the house, and pretending like she’s “seeing things” when she notices. The pop culture roots have always involved intentionality and manipulation in the concept. Two people seeing the same events in different ways and disagreeing over it is really normal and I don’t think should be vilified as gaslighting. He can legitimately feel like he wasn’t validated the way he needed, and she can legitimately know she did everything she was comfortable doing, and if it wasn’t enough, then they just aren’t compatible at this time. I worry when we accuse others of gaslighting us just for disagreeing with us, it reflects an internal insecurity in our own beliefs and a bit of blameshifting. Mostly, I don’t doubt my own reality just because someone disagrees with me, and they can really try to argue their reality to me (especially if they want me to agree as a form of validation) but I don’t think they’re “gaslighting” me. I just think they really want my validation, and it’s my job to set clear boundaries.
There is no DSM definition for gaslighting. Gaslighting can be intentional or unintentional.
Greg has tortured artist vibes. I bet women will be falling over their feet to be the one to comfort him. He will be just fine.
loool
That kind of guy doesn't have much to offer in a relationship. I get the needy, whiny vibe from my cat. Don't want it from my boyfriend.
I hope that you are going to do the flip side and break down Katie’s interactions with Blake, her eventual pick. There wasn’t a lot because the show spent so much time on the drama, but there is a night and day difference between the two men.
Yes! Would love to see him analyze their various interviews too. I think Chicks in the Office had one where they asked both of them about the Greg situation
@@deecee7042 ALL the interviewers asked them about Greg. It was unbelievably rude. Blake took it well, but after a full day of that I'm sure he was done.
@@LK-rt9cb didn't Blake move onto Taisha first and then Katie? He's tenacious for sure.
@@LK-rt9cb It’s interesting viewing, for sure 🤣
@@LK-rt9cb omg he wasn’t in love with Clare, she gave no time to anyone and they all stayed on except one guy. This Bachelorette hoping narrative is so lame. Blake also said he wanted to come on earlier with Katie but they kept postponing it. He was really interested in Katie. The Tayshia storyline was just that. A fake story to make the show more interesting.
I’m most annoyed that some people say Katie can’t still be angry. ESP if she found love with Blake. Ummm did we watch the same thing?
Angry yes…but she came off vindictive and was calling out his rude behavior while shouting and being rude. It was hypocritical especially since her whole story revolves around calling out mean girl behavior on Matt’s season and she came off as just that … a mean girl!
@@dionebest9960 I’m not saying the communication was okay. But people saying “she and Blake won’t work out because she’s obviously not over Greg” -completely incorrect. Like Dr Kirk said, she was embarrassed on tv, and may be even more now that she wasn’t under complete control on the tell all. I’m just saying you can be angry at a person for years for less
It's almost as though people think that women can't have two concurrent thought patterns 1/ Katie be perfectly happy with her engagement and furthermore in love with Blake 2/ be justifiably angry because Greg treated her so appallingly on national TV leaving her devastated/ devoid of confidence / nearly ruining her chance of love through this process ; And yes it is annoying that the people you refer to require this simplistic response from Katie._.. So we can easily all see there are Shades of Grey and no simple black and white answers because Katie has had to deal with so much extraordinary pressures
@@dionebest9960 she just rewatched what happened behind the scenes which I'm sure brought her back to the feelings she felt, as well as worse, as she now didn't believe he ever loved her. I think when he said, he didn't regret anything, that was salt in a wound and gasoline on a fire. She lost all differentiation and instead of coming at it with a cool head she was mad and disregulated in her response.
@@harrylederman1679 yes Harry yes🙌
She gave him lots of validation throughout the season because he NEEDED it. He would have bailed much sooner had she not spent as much time as she did trying to make him feel special. That’s a lot for any relationship and impossible in the context of the Bachelorette. In my opinion, he wasn’t ready or strong enough to make it through a situation where he’s competing for someone’s love when he’s still in a place where he needs to be safe, first and foremost. I’m sorry Katie was hurt, but I don’t think it was intentional. Not that he’s not responsible for his actions-just that he didn’t join the show with the explicit decision to break her heart.
Exactly, sad all around
I 100% agree. Very well said. His behaviour on the show was not appropriate at all, but it does not make him a bad person. He has some issues and insecurities, which he has acknowledged and owned up to in his interview with Nick Vial. The guy is 28 and has experienced alot of loss and trauma in his life and has alot to learn as we all do at that age, and even as we get older. Life is about growing, making mistakes (which we all do) and learning from mistakes (which we hope we do). I wish the best for him.
Although I would say in watching it back, he should have been able to see something that he did he could ah e done better, but he seemed to say he wouldn't change a thing... which is pretty callous.
@@kairu5607- He is human and made a mistake. Simple. Ideally, it would of been better if he acknowledged his mistakes on AFR, but he finally acknowledged and owned up to his mistakes in his interview with Nick Vial. It still matters if eventually a person apologizes and realizes their mistakes vs not doing it all. Some people never acknowledge or apologize their mistakes at all. He, at least did. I wish him the best.
@@SilkyShish Actually he was coached by a PR agency right before the Nick Viall interview, ABC is interested in him being bachelor so he needed to do that. Also, a contestant may not give interviews unless it is revised by ABC, that is why Luke P, Jed and others could never defend themselves or share their stories. It's a tight contract. You can actually catch some Dear Shandy, reddit and youtube phrases that were taken word by word like being a "petulant child" and such. I guess we'll never know the extent of his "apology".
I'm so glad you reacted to this, I saw a lot of people on twiter saying Katie was in the wrong and that Greg's behavior was "romantic" but all I saw were red flags and emotional manipulation, whether intentional or not. I really do hope Greg gets the help he needs so that he can have healthier interactions with women in his relationships moving forward
I was thinking to myself that Greg was gaslighting her into believing that she was cold and gave him No validation, when in reality he had no intentions of getting engaged or married to any lead, whether he liked them or not. And that he was trying to convince her it was HER fault, “I deserve better than this”, when in fact he is just too cowardly to admit he doesn’t want to be with her. He kept giving so many weak excuses why they shouldn’t be together and then dipped. I do believe he wanted an out.
facts!
He's an actor. He tried getting on the show 3x and wanted to make it close enough to the end that he'd get his own spin-off. When his family told him that she placed him as a front runner, he decided he needed to abort, so he created this false narrative that she rejected HIM. He set her up to tell him she loves him, even though he knew she couldn't do that. That was his objective, to put her in a compromising position that was unreasonable of him to ask, but that could be masked by this fascade of him being "overly romantic". He couldn't dump her bc that would make him too much of a jerk to be in the running as a lead of his own season. It had to be set up in a way that he was the bruised victim with the broken heart. You could clearly tell that that's what was happening here, which is why he won't admit that he did anything wrong. It's also why he claims to be genuinely happy for her, bc he never truly wanted to be with her. She was just a pawn in his ambitious game. Sadly, there are now rumors that he's the next bachelor. If so, his plan worked. Welp, I hope that season's ratings tank, bc he's a royal shit show and doesn't deserve any glory for his behavior.
@@YourMajesty143 okay seriously why can't people see this????? i could tell he was acting wayyy before home town. his dates were extremely emotionally superficial, he wouldn't make direct eye contact, he'd say very vague and cheesy lines, his body language and words screamed disingenuous and "am i pulling this off? i think it's working"...
it was obvious he was acting a role as a "awkward sweet shy guy" that is "falling for her"...his emotions were extremely fake like Zack Efron High School Musical overacting fake and cheesy. i knew he was trying to get clout and become famous / the next Bachelor, and he would dump her before things got too real at the end but do it in a way to get sympathy.
i was so annoyed how people blamed Katie but my sister explained to me people will always side with a narc. you will always lose everyone in your life to a narc because they will always be believed over you and you will be blamed, isolated and traumatized. i just hope she gets therapy and heals from this.
Dr. Kirk should react to Aunt Lindsey during hometowns.
So glad you reacted to this and so thankful that you can see both sides! It's really interesting getting your professional opinion on why people may be acting the way that they are, rather than "this person is the bad guy and the other person is the good guy" the world is not black and white like that!
Yes! This is the reason why I hate the Dr. Phil Show so much! He paints everyone as good guy/bad guy and he offers these extremely simplistic solutions that won’t help anyone. For a trained therapist to do that-to exploit vulnerable people for the sake of making money is terrible.
Katie & Gregg were total strangers but if he did trust her from the first Rose and date, she accepted Blake into the mix later. That was deception. So he's basically bk at square one. Who is this lady & can i trust her? it's already 25 men that he's in line with and now Blake? Lol. Gregg was reasonable imo. Gregg4Bachelor. Good luck Katie&Blake
It was traumatic to see how Greg reacted and treated Katie! I think so many of us have gone through similar painful manipulative experiences. I would love it if you were to review her and Blake instead to see in contrast how great of a listener he is! Especially on their first date when she shared her past sexual assault experience.
Did you then go on national TV and spread rumors about him? And if telling someone how you feel and opting to actually leave when it's not reciprocated, there's tons of abusers out there. Simply moving to end a relationship where they aren't on the same page, isn't generally looked at as manipulative.
@@mstea2234 No one is calling Greg manipulative for choosing not to continue the relationship. It's the way that he does it and the way that he speaks to her while he's ending the relationship. Just because you have a good reason to break up with someone doesn't make yelling at them and making them feel like shit okay.
@@pastichio_ was her yelling ok?
@@dionebest9960 Nope, neither of them yelling is okay. And her yelling does not make Greg's yelling okay. And anyone is allowed to feel traumatized by either situation.
Let's all stop justifying shitty behavior with more shitty behavior.
@@pastichio_ I think u are making the point I was trying to bring out with my question
Your voice sounds really deep today.
Hope you're feeling ok and don't have a cold or anything. If you do, hope you get well soon.
Mayb a diff mic?
That's what I was thinking on his last video! It just sounds deeper. Glad someone else noticed
I noticed the same thing too! I am worried Dr. Honda either is sick or didn’t have a good night of sleep
He probably lost his voice on Darcy & Stacey
That’s what I was thinking too, very chest voice
I think the confusion with calling this gaslighting came more from Greg being convinced he knew what Katie was thinking and feeling and telling her what she “truly” felt to her face.
If Greg says "You filled a hole in my heart" one more time, I'm going to put a hole in my brain.
lol
Dr. Kirk is so wise🧠🦉
Was this some kind of male entitlement thing with Greg? He said that he did a very special opening up of himself for her, and he let himself be vulnerable for the first time and "gave her everything." Did he then feel entitled to "everything" back from Katie, and then he felt wronged because she didn't give him what he thought she owed him?
Great question!
Besides the fact that he is male, what separates "male entitlement" from "entitlement"? I encourage people to remove bias that's included from associating something with gender.
@@flourpolyester201 It's relevant because of privilege.
@@flourpolyester201 Because male entitlement is a phenomenon, and this type of behavior is strongly associated with it. When it comes to general tendencies in dating, men tend to act entitled quite often, and women don’t.
So true, she was incredibly emotionally vulnerable since their very first interactions (she opened up about her dad to him first, let's not forget) and she NEVER held it over his head like he owed her for it. Being emotionally vulnerable with someone is an expectation in a healthy relationship, not a bargaining chip
I don't think that people realize, Katie can be happy with Blake even though initially he wasn't her "front runner". Greg was her first choice, but then the way he acted changed it for her. And she didn't "settle" for Blake.
Exactly. How someone deals with conflict is VERY important when seeking a partner, and Greg demonstrated he does not deal with it well. That’s enough to change your feelings for someone. Blake, on the other hand, was told by Katie how heartbroken she was that Greg and Michael left, and instead of emotionally reacting and making a fight about it, he turned it into a conversation of explaining his feelings and trying to understand her better. He wanted her to know that he was scared to hear that, but he still wants to stay and work it out with her. It was NIGHT AND DAY from her experience with Greg the day before. It had to be incredibly refreshing for her. You want to feel like your partner and you are on the same team when you go through conflict. Greg has not learned how to do that, and Katie found that out in the end, so her feelings can change and her “first pick” can change as well.
I always loved Blake and Katie but seeing how Blake opened up vs when Greg did was when I knew he was such a great match for her. They just seem to have the same energy and logic. Or at least imo from TV time lol
I just realised one of the most important relationships in my life was filled with gaslighting 😲. I had no idea! I thought she was just being difficult. My best friend for many years would always find a way to blame me for things, change conversations we had (even ones over text where there is proof of who said what) and make it my fault she acted in a way that hurt me, tell me I did things I didn't do etc.. And I would end up apologising just to end the torture. Even if I caught her in the lie and confronted it, it would somehow switch around like a magic trick. People around me told me she was not good to me but the friendship was so important to me and I was so confused. A few years ago (thanks to amazing friend, who showed me what friendship really is!) I managed to get out but looking back on things without the 'rose-coloured glasses' is terrifying and painful. I'm so relieved to not be alone in my experience of this, though I hate that others have faced this same pain.❤
Love that you got clarity!! It's such a relief when you're able to finally understand what exactly happened in a situation like that when you tried and tried to make sense of it for so long. I had that moment when I realized an ex was a narcissist. I just couldn't figure out certain things out, because I assumed deep down he thought and felt as I did. (I was young!) I eventually realized he didn't, nor does anyone. I had a somewhat similar situation to you as a young child. There were really fun times, then times where her entire demeanor would change and she would be so cruel. Give me silent treatment, act like I didn't exist. Completely turn things around on me,and make things my fault. I would be devastated and so confused. I just wanted to make it right, and tty yo please her, but there was no pleasing her. She wanted to see me hurt for some reason. Eventually one day in high school she told me she was embarrassed to be seen with me because I spoke to a kid who's legs were deformed at birth. Gave me an ultimatum not to talk to him anymore. I said of course I will still talk to him. He's nice, and he doesn't deserve that. The next day and the entire remainder of high school she pretended like I didn't exist. I said hi, and she literally pretended like no was even there speaking to her. Her father died when she was really young, and she was in his bed that night. Her mom and stepdad were cold af. Completely emotionally unavailable, and she was a highly emotional child. I think she must have had a lot of emotional trauma from all she went through. Even though she was like 3 or 4 when that happened, I'm guessing her dad was more of the loving one? Her mom wasn't. When he died, she probably felt on an island. Her older brother was very sweet and really nurturing with her. I'm glad they had each other at least. So they didn't feel completely alone. I didn't speak to her after the high school incident other than we're from a small town, so I ran into her a few times with other friends from that town when we moved to college.
Thank you for sharing your story. Good for you for being able to reflect back and see how you've grown. All the best to you in your healing journey.
I believe that what most people meant when they said Greg was gaslighting Katie is his behavior during the break up. He had decided to leave before the interaction (probably after she didn’t say I love you) but he made Katie believe that she did something much more terrible to him that caused the breakup and him purposely not fully elaborating on those circumstances (manipulation?) caused confusion for Katie. At least, that’s how I read most of the comments. According to the definition you outlined, it still doesn’t meet gaslighting criteria but I get people’s confusion.
I think when she said I was listening to you and he says you weren't listening, that would def be to deny her reality and meet the criteria for gaslighting
I honestly have no words. That break-up was hard to watch. The ending was equally hard. I wish them both the best. I also hope they do not pick Greg to be the next bachelor.
I do.
You KNOW he’s going to be, though… 😒
It's crazy, because I was team Greg the entire time!!! Then he pulled that manipulative stuff at the end, and I was shocked. I felt so bad for Katy in that moment. I knew she was blaming herself, but that she would watch it back, and then she'd get mad! To me it seemed like he was looking for an out. It could just all be trauma, but I don't know... my senses are screaming something is up with that. He was looking for anything wrong in that moment. I was surprised when I saw so many bachelor fans were mad at Katy for yelling at him though. Have you never got upset at a guy who broke your heart? I was cheering her on when she vocalized everything in this scene. I was actually extremely impressed how perceptive she was. Most people wouldn't have picked up on what she did.
He needs a lot of reflection and therapy before he's ready to date anyone
I don’t think that would be good for his mental health honestly
For all those who say if she’s happy with Blake why is she still angry at Greg? Ummm 🤔 whatttt?? If someone hurts me it doesn’t detract from the love I have for my partner. It’s two different things. She’s entitled to get angry at him for what he did AND at the same time also be happy with Blake.
The Bachelor/ette franchise needs to hire you! Imagine the closure an insights you could bring to these people.
The bachelor/ette franchise is a lot more interested in drama then closure and insights. If Dr. Kirk’s insight deescalates the drama then the bachelor/ette probably won’t want him. Haha
I think I finally understand the difference between the clinical definition of Gaslighting & the current interpretation that has surfaced online in recent years, thank you for explaining again Dr. Honda. Based on the clinical definition I don't think Greg gaslit Katie. However, I think the reason ppl were calling this situation Gaslighting is because Greg was invalidating Katie's experience & taking zero ownership. His verbiage was very manipulative & accusatory causing Katie to second guess her own actions & feeling like "Am I crazy? Am I the bad guy? What did I do?" when she in many ppls opinion did nothing wrong. She was very clear in her communication & supportive. Greg was adamant that she wasn't & would not allow her the room to even defend her actions. His opinions became facts in his mind. Even his apology took zero ownership he said "I'm sorry you feel that way." instead of "I'm sorry for the way I spoke to you, I did not intend to make you feel that way, I genuinely cared for you."
It seems she read a lot of rumors on Twitter that he went to an esteemed acting school, which he did ,that he always talked about being famous and that this was his third attempt to get on The Bachelorette. So obviously most of these people are attractive and charismatic enough to meet love in their private life, I would assume that the majority of them are looking to get famous and not necessarily find love....they are often repeats. I think he thought he would get dumped a little sooner and he really just wanted to be the bachelor
🎯🎯🎯
You explain things so well and in my opinion you got it right 100%. I also think Katie is going to do well. Sad that so many people have torn her apart over her anger, when she had a right to be angry. I also believe there is a campaign by some psychologists (and the public) to expand some definitions like gaslighting and narcissisms. Nothing wrong with that though. I see the public being engaged in these discussions as a good thing. Whatever helps them understand dysfunctional/abusive relationships.
Yes she had a right to be angry but the bigger question is did it serve her? NO. It made her look mean and vindictive. Her anger was justified but lashing out like she did was immature.
@@shelleycharlesworth5177 if it made her feel better to chew him out that's all that matters. What you think of her doesn't matter. I don't think it made her look vindictive at all. That's just your opinion.
I cannot deal with Greg's vocal fry. Fingernails on a chalkboard.
Dr Kirk "i've done this for 25 years" Honda. We love you doc !
I was gaslit in an abusive relationship and it made me feel like I was a psycho. In this situation, I think people are trying to reference Greg saying she wasn't listening and didn't validate him when she actually did. 🤷♀️
Possibly that is the reason people falsely accused him for gaslighting. But, people need to be careful about misusing words and the word "gaslighting" was completely inappropriately used to describe Greg's behaviour. Was his behaviour immature, wrong and very insecure?? YES! But, it was definitely not gaslighting. So, to read and hear Katie falsely accusing him of gaslighting is irresponsible. By the way, I too was a victim of abuse and was gaslit constantly. So, I am sorry you experienced this as well.
I mean, technically he did tell her she wasn't listening to him, when she said she did and technically that is denying her reality.
Gaslighting in mainstream is a colloquial term. It's making someone question their own sense of reality. Making them question their own feelings via emotional pressure or manipulation. Essentially, the gaslighter is 'telling/convincing' you how you feel, which may not be reflective of how you actually feel.
Humans understand situations through narratives. It's very difficult to take something as a straight that is what it is.
“He might have been a little upset, but I think he would have been okay, maybe.” 😂
Is there a term for her definition of gaslighting then? cause I've experienced the same kind of situation but after hearing you dont think its gaslighting is it just in my head? now im confused
@@Sam-bb7cd interesting, I understand Dr. Honda’s definition and took it as 100% fact but reading your response I see what you mean. Sometimes this deceit may be conscious or subconscious but it doesn’t take away the impact it had on the victim. Hmmm I’ll listen to Dr. Ramani’s version too. Thanks for the reflective insight
Picking sides is so weird to me. We don’t even truly know these people so it’s strange that people pick one and think everything the other person is abusive, manipulative, a narcissist etc etc. 🙄 I see it a ton with Mike and Natalie from 90day too.
Simple narratives are easier to understand...
...even if they're made up.
100% agree. There is no nuance on the internet. Even as I browse Reddit, people make very confident claims on the 90 day cast as if they live with the cast.
My understanding of why people used gaslighting to describe Greg's behavior isn't because he was trying to get her to commit early. It was because he repeatedly said things that countered the reality of what had happened, countered her memory of how she had behaved towards him, made her second guess herself in ways that were untrue and unfair, and make her feel she couldn't trust her memories and experiences of their interactions. Unfortunately I can't recall an example at the moment.
So in my mind this falls into the evolving definition of gaslighting. I heard it articulated this way: The act of undermining somebody else’s reality by denying facts, by denying the environment or by denying their feelings. It can be done on purpose but not necessarily so; it can be done unconsciously. And it's not a one time occurrence, it has to be repeated. (I'm not saying everybody on the internet agrees with this of course!) I agree with you that a new definition is needed for the campaign of intentional acts you described where someone is intentionally and actively trying to make a person think they are imagining things/not in touch with reality, etc. in an abusive relationship.
He was not gaslighting her and Dr. Honda's confirmation of the definition completely supports this. People need to be careful about misusing words and the word "gaslighting" was completely inappropriately used to describe Greg's behaviour. Was his behaviour immature, wrong and very insecure?? YES! But, it was definitely not gaslighting. So, to read and hear Katie falsely accusing him of gaslighting is irresponsible.
@@SilkyShish Dr. Honda gave the traditional, clinical definition of gaslighting but also proposed that this definition may be morphing, as happens with many words over large spans of time. He said that if this is happening with gaslighting, he thinks that's okay, as long as there is a new word reserved for victims of traditional gaslighting. I agree with that. We might not like that the definition of words change, but it is a fact that it happens sometimes.
For me, the updated definition of gaslighting really helped in my healing journey, so for me it's been a benefit. I was able to see that mostly well-meaning people in an institution I was part of were systematically enacting a kind of group think gaslighting, with people in power denying and sometimes pathologizing me when I attempted to shine a light on systemic blind spots and biases that were harmful. Even though this was not a conscious campaign on their part, they nevertheless functioned unwittingly to keep these blind spots in place and marginalize and hurt those who challenged them. The power dynamics involved reverence for those in greater positions of authority, which even more privileged their view over those of us with less power, and slowly made me, for one, over an 8 year period, lose contact with my own knowing. It took years of therapy to extricate myself from this lack of faith in myself, and I'm still working with it. Gaslighting was the most healing and empowering word I found to capture how I was treated and the affect it had on me. It helped me make sense of my experience and also help a small pool of friends in the organization eventually shift their old view and come to validate what I had sensed, seen and felt as being the truth. Which was also part of my healing. I would always qualify the term when I used it by making clear I was referring to gaslighting that was often unintentional.
@@celesteland - Thank you for your comment and sharing. I listened to what Dr. Honda said about gaslighting and played it back 4 times to truly grasp it. And from his definition, he was very clear in its definition. And of course it is the clinical definition, which should be adhered to. Any other loose definition is dangerous and irresponsible territory because then we can all go around claiming someone is gaslighting someone when it is actually not the case at all. And Dr. Honda did not say Greg was gaslighting Katie at all. And I did not think so either from my own experiences in psychology.
As for your own trauma and experiences. Thank you so much for sharing all you have been through. I am so sorry you went through that trauma. I can relate as I was part of of an organization where I saw others (not so much myself) mistreated and made to feel it was their fault and it was so disheartening. I had to leave that organization because I could not stand seeing how it was hurting so many people. I ended up filing a government complaint about them. I will not question or challenge whatever term you have found to help you heal and overcome your traumatic experience. If you felt gaslit and this has helped you to move forward and heal, then I give you nothing but respect and praise. All the best. :)
Doc, you skipped past him saying he regretted ✨nothing✨. Specific quotes Greg had during the breakup:
“You’re not Katie right now.” “You weren’t listening to me.” “You mowed right past what I said.” “You’re just being the Bachelorette right now.” “I deserve better than this.”
You didn’t respond to his earlier “joking around” where he would do something or say something during a date, then when she brought it up later he’d say, “What are you talking about?” “I never said that.” “That didn’t happened.”
You’re not taking into context the stories that came out about Greg which Katie is referencing. He’s been accused of verbally and emotionally abusing past girlfriends. People have come forward saying he’s not shy or awkward but outgoing and confident. All that came out early on before people knew how far he was going to go in the season. It’s also been revealed that he was nearly cast on two previous seasons of this show and is friends with a head producer. So he knew the format. These things imply that he was being lined up for the Bachelor and that’s why he had that huge shift after professing his deep love for her, and why he blame shifted everything onto her.
He knew she couldn’t reciprocate fully and it would be a good excuse for him to run before the over night dates and engagement.
👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼
🎯 yes. This is a comment Honda should read.
Greg's vocal fry is so annoying. I didn't watch the show, only Dr Honda's reaction videos.
I absolutely love this series of Katie and Greg! Thank you!
Please watch and analyse the relatively short show “Back with the Ex“ (Australian show on Netflix)!
That was good!
I feel so bad for Greg having the studio audience there.
I think having a conversation like this would be so hard when 100 people applaud the other pew persons point. I think that plays a factor into him not being open during this.
Ngl as angry as I got for Katie while watching the blow up with Greg.... I kinda saw a bit of myself in him. Obviously I’d like to think (or at least I hope) I don’t come across as the same magnitude of unreasonable (or unreasonable at all lmao) as Greg did during that interaction,
but in terms of him being a generally sad dude who never opens up, then becoming super elated and quick to vulnerability once he found something that seemed as idealistic as what he’s always dreamed of, only for him to cut himself off and leave when he got the slightest sense that things weren’t going how he felt they should likely as a result of him being hyper aware as means of self protection... I can understand his train of thought bc I have a similar one at times, which became even more evident to me after watching your videos in the situation.
I’m a little saddened at the magnitude of hate that he’s getting. I’ve been diagnosed and in treatment for mdd for a few years now, and I’m actually working on my avoidant attachment style with my therapist rn (we’ve been focused on it for over a year now), so past experiences in addition to your thorough explanations made it easier to see that while the way he was acting was very much unfair and hurtful to Katie (and I don’t mean to downplay it in anyway, she was fr in love and he just slam dunked her with the whole thing) it would be wrong to title him as a bad person or a gaslighter based on this situation. Me recognizing that the audience reaction he got wasn’t completely deserved still feels lacking in the grand scheme of things, as it isn’t really coming from a place of pure hearted empathy bc if I wasn’t the way I am atm I could’ve easily had the same reaction as majority of the audience, since without all that context it just seems like unfounded unexplainable cruelty.
Idk I just hope this experience doesn’t scar him more. And I hope Katie is happy with the guy she ended up with, she handled the situation really well. Also tbh I did not watch the whole season, only skimmed the last few episodes after getting a bunch of ads for it that seemed interesting enough, so if it’s actually worse than what is emphasized in those last episodes then I really can’t speak on that. Sorry for the long comment lol.
I'm more concerned with Katie. Gregg recently lost his Dad but he seem to have a loving family not the Aunt Lindsay and Tattoo family life
Thank you for clarifying what gaslighting is. I hope Katie sees this.
I think the audience clapped because they related to the fact that they don’t know who Greg is. I don’t !
Ahhhhh, been waiting for this!!
I like Dr. Honda's fair assessment both partners' (Katie and Greg's) behavior and possible psychological motivations. I also like how he specifies that as a therapist he doesn't take sides in a couple's conflict. I think side-taking comes from an idealized mindset--like if we're thinking of Katie and Greg's relationship as a story in a fictional book. We imagine where we want the story to go, how we want the conflict to get resolved. The "side" you take can definitely be subjective in that case--we make take the side of the "character" we relate more to or the character we admire more for some reason.
16:30 lol I immediately thought it was Gabby Hannah saying “gaslighting” to everyone who tells a narrative different from her bias narrative 😂
I have been waiting for this one!
For the *most* part I don’t think Greg was there purely as an actor, but I do think it’s sus that he was catch for Claire’s season, had tried to get on multiple times before that, and never spoke to her about being an aspiring actor while he was there. So to say he was only there for Katie is clearly false, because he would have said the same to Claire 🤷🏻♀️
I don’t know… I don’t think he was entirely wrong. He said multiple times to her something along the lines of “it’s either real or it’s not” and I understand that. Why sit there and” play the game” till the end if you know its him?… why go on dates and kiss other men and string them along “if it’s me in the end…” Especially when the last Bachelorette got away with getting engaged a week in… He mentioned her “being too focused on being the bachelorette” in a sense of, playing this character till the very end as opposed to focusing on the actual journey of finding love… She didn’t want to take accountability for that by simply saying “ I am the Bachelorette”…
As someone who has a degree in counseling, I really didn't like when the audience cheered. I'm glad that I'm not the only one. All I see are two hurt human beings.
Yeah I felt like the producers pushed them to clap. And yeah it was painful
I agree with you. Katie's behaviour on AFR was completely over the top and vicious and immature. Even though, she had a right to be angry, It was not a healthy or positive way to communicate or express anger. And then to falsely accuse him of being an actor and lying. That was really petty and childish. And for the audience to cheer this was disturbing to me.
I think I read somewhere that if you are part of the studio audience at the bachelor or bachelorette, you will get cue cards that tell you when to clap, to laugh etc. and you need to commit to following them. That's how the production wants to push further the narrative they built of for example a "villain" who doesn't receive an applause, or a person wronged getting all the sympathy from the public. Now, I am not sure, if this is true. I just think it is very possible because in most studio audiences it is quite common procedure and seeing how this franchise so cruelly toys with the emotions of their contestants, I wouldn't put it past them.
@@marijasalome9686 - Good point!
Another thing is you’re right he doesn’t have to apologize for having issues but he does need to apologize for wasting her god damn time. It’s so clear that he’s not emotionally or mentally the best right now. And just for that whole scene that he did he needed to apologize.
OMG YOU REACTED IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS. THANKS DR KIRK HONDA ❤️. I ADMIRE THE SHIT OUTTA YOU
Dr. Honda, talking about avoidant attachment, loss, and grieving, I don't think anyone's mentioned this but in an interview after this episode, Greg talked about how he started going to therapy after his father passed away. I believe he was going 2-3x per week for over a year and had a great connection with this therapist until his therapist got diagnosed with stage four cancer and also suddenly passed away! I don't think Greg was emotionally ready to be on this show when this season began filming; his dad passed away in late 2018, then his therapist in late 2019 if not early 2020, and this season started in March of 2021...
In other news, I wish you would've shared your thoughts on Katie's aunt and mother. Her upbringing sounds interesting, and I can see it playing a role into her comportment on this episode. I also didn't care for the way her aunt treated Blake; it felt like she was trying to put HIM down just for being male.
You can gaslight unintentionally. No ones saying he’s a bad person or a manipulator but he did gaslight her. Gaslighting is making someone question their own sanity. He didn’t do it intentionally, I think he was just too emotional and clearly doesn’t know how to control his feelings and it just happened.
I watched a recent interview with Greg and he totally took responsibility for his behavior towards Katie. I agree that I think he genuinely loved her. In the podcast he talked about his father's death and the fact the he saw a therapist twice a week for 10 months after his dad died. He became very attached to the therapist but then he suddenly died of cancer too. He recognized that Katie filling a hole in his heart was a lot to put on her and that really he wanted to heal and bring the best of himself to a relationship and he needed to take the time to work on his losses in therapy as was doing that.
I hope Dr Honda responds to this because it really helps fill in the story from Greg's side. I hope these 2 can reconnect some day
I saw the interview too and I totally give him props for taking responsibility for his poor behaviour on the show. But, I also hope Katie will see her behaviour on AFR was over the top and vicious. She completely attacked him and falsely accused him of being an actor and lying. That was out of line no matter how angry she was.
There's an interesting follow up with Greg on Nick viall podcast which gives a bit more background on history with therapy after his father died.
Yes! Having his therapist who was helping him navigate the loss of father, die almost in the same way will mess up a person really bad. I hope he continues to receive the therapy that he says he started.
Greg also accepted responsibility for acting like a petulant child and said he wanted her to leave the Bachelorette for him as a sign of her commitment (paraphrased). Sheesh, she dodged a bullet.
Dr Kirk, most people are demonizing Katie, not Greg.
Thanks to the production edits. They definitely gave Katie the Rachel Lindsey treatment and I hated to see it. All that stuff with Greg was very triggering and they gave us no warnings.
I wouldn't say it's most people, but it's disturbing how many people are actively defending Greg's behavior online.
@@bethnshermy yes, so many defended him and trashed her and often trashed Blake too.
Sad that they didn't want a healthy, loving relationship to win.
As they should. Katie's behaviour on AFR was completely over the top and vicious and immature. Greg screwed up and his behaviour was not acceptable on the show. So, even though, she had a right to be angry, It was not a healthy or positive way to communicate or express anger. And then to falsely accuse him of being an actor and lying. That was really petty and childish. Two wrongs (behaviours from either one of them) do not make a right.
@@SilkyShish it's so funny, you tell me not to talk to you and then you reply on my comments. Double standard much? If I didn't know better, I'd think that you missed me 😏
Did you cut out the Meryl Streep part?
I wish you were the therapist on the show! Unfortunately they use corrupt "psychologists" who take all of the contestants trauma and feed it to the producers so they know exactly how to manipulate them. I listened to a podcast about how they kept driving a contestant around after she was eliminated until she cried, and the only way they got her to cry was mentioning a family member who had passed away (and they made it look like she was crying over the bachelor)
when he talked about confirmation bias all i could think about was darcey and her accusations of georgi
It’s just the fact he didn’t say sorry!!! Like what???
Idk if it was just me but some of the time it seemed like there was edited in clapping for Katie and edited out clapping for Greg
So, like in Young Frankenstein… “What hump??”
Just a heads up, a lot of the clapping/audience reaction sounds in these types of episodes are added in post! The bachelor recap podcast "Chatty Broads" is hosted by an ex-contestant and she talks a lot about editing tactics used by the bachelor franchise to paint certain narratives. Also, I would love a Chatty Broads x Psychology in Seattle podcast episode one day! I think their audience would like you and benefit from your podcast.
And as someone who has definitely misused the word gaslighting before, my (mis)understanding of it was that it could be applied to situations where one person is denying another person's reality which was why I thought Greg might have been gaslighting Katie during their breakup.
I think the people saying it is gaslighting are referring to him changing the narrative that it was actually her fault. And trying to make Katie feel like she's the one that did something wrong. But again that's not gaslighting. It's not great but it's not gaslighting.
he looks quietly devastated
Thank youuuuuu!!!!
I think people us gaslighting as “lying”.
They need to hire you to give therapy to contestants in the franchise.
Just to answer imo what I thought was gaslighting is that he was rewriting their history up to the last conversation and thats why she was saying I'm so confused what did i even do wrong. Thats the part i thought was gaslighting because she was questioning her reality, like maybe she didn't validate him...maybe she did offend him or wasnt listening some how...was she the bad person that ruined it all etc. Or when he says it hurts me that you think all i wanted was an i love you when that is actually what he was saying.
I'm so glad you addressed the audience's blind support of Katie. I found that Katie's (and Bachelor Nation's) attack on Greg was totally inappropriate--we know that just because someone acts happy and cocky in real life doesn't mean that's reflective of how they feel. Him presenting a happy personality doesn't mean he wasn't deeply sad inside, and let's not pretend that the internet never lies about anything. On another level, this man is clearly in a fragile and vulnerable place, and I can't imagine sitting on a stage and just having to take it as someone you loved labels you a gaslighter and a liar and totally discredits your feelings and experiences while everyone cheers. Katie is justified in and entitled to her anger, but I don't think this was the setting to appropriately confront Greg.
I don't think Greg was right for the show (someone who has jealousy and insecurity issues should never be a Bachelorette contestant--that's why I would never join!), but I don't think he deserves to be hated or publicly shamed because he had a trauma response that caused him to act irrationally and unfairly and be a bit of a jerk.
I agree. Thank for such an accurate analysis and comment.
Bachelor nation need to see this video. That Katie and Greg conversation was kinda confuse us about what was Greg thinking and who he is.
Greg went to a 4-year acting school that teaches psychological methods of acting. I think that's why Katie was thinking he was just trying to go on the show for that. But I think the reason he went to acting school was to try and get a better grip on his emotions and to gain more confidence. Plus she's hearing his EX's that have said he was super controlling and mean.
The inaccuracy
It’s possible he could be controlling and mean. Usually people like that have been severely wounded in the past. Not saying he’s right for doing that, but I will say he walks away each time. People do the best with what they’ve got, remember, he’s a young 27 emotionally immature and stunted at a young age. Sure, he needs help, he does try, it may not click for him for many more years.
@@StormyDay But a lot of people aren't giving the victims of this behavior the same grace and understanding.
@@chelseygarrett4221 what victim? His victims? I think you’re using the word “victim” a little heavy handed.
@@dionebest9960 I'm sorry but which part do you believe is inaccurate?
I think people confuse gaslighting with reverse psychology 🤔
I can see his pain and I really feel sorry for him. I think though that he doesn’t realise that he has/had a distortion. That’s what traumas do to us, they let us react in unreasonable and sometimes hurtful ways. But he really seems to be an honest and kind person. He should get therapy and he will be a good partner once he sees his contribution. There is hope and love for everyone, never give up Greg! and seek help for your depression, it will get better! I really wish him all the best.
Thank you for the brief explanation on gaslighting, I need to watch the in depth video. I think ppl overuse the word gaslighting.
Sir, can you do an analysis on Aunt Lindsay? Your environment is important in determining who you are. Thx. you.
Dr. Kirk can you react to Greg interview on the Viall files podcast?
I second this.
oh man can you do a reaction video to inside out??
I strongly disagree with you here Dr. Honda, covert narcissists will unintentionally gaslight to manipulate partners because of learned behavior and as a defense mechanism. Gaslighting does not always need to be fully intentional.
I feel like that might not be the same thing by professional definition? I'm not sure. I think Dr. Honda is talking about the clinical definition. What you're saying might be categorized as smt else since it is a symptom resulted from a different disorder bc the intent isn't there. Plus he did say there are some unconscious part to those who gaslight sometimes. At the surface level tho, there needs to be a layer of intention to gaslighting (often in abusive relationship) and that's what separates it from those doing it unintentionally. As he said, to clump them all together would take away from the severity of the clinical definition of gaslighting that is more intentionally abusive and alarming. If we are clumping it together than there needs to be a separate words for those being intentionally manipulated to really highlight the difference.
@@julie91295 my definition is coming from a clinicians guide to emotional abuse in relationships. It is used by social workers, and trauma specialists. I am not sure if psychologists use a different one, but from my professional experience they use a similar one to mine. I think Dr. Honda may be working from an outdated book
@@julie91295 - I agree with you. And Dr. Honda is bang on with his description of the proper definition of "gaslighting". Greg was not doing that.
Could you analyze some of the clips from the podcast that Greg did with The Vial Files?
Yes please!!
I understand in normal situations, we can say that he wasn’t pretending. But with cameras around, it’s reasonable to think he was “acting”. He auditioned for the show 3 different times so it’s very possible he was acting. To me, it did not look genuine. He was doing way to much in my opinion. Plus the whispering on all the scenes triggered me for sure, super cringe
His sister signed him up for Becca’s season and he turned down the chance to go back on the show the second time for Claire’s after it got postponed because he didn’t think she was the one for him after she was announced. So he didn’t audition at all for it. They wanted him on the show 🤷🏻♀️ sure he wanted to go on but he didn’t audition 3 times. That’s not what happened. He didn’t even send his application in the first time.
If you watch Nick Viall's podcast, Greg speaks about this. Someone applied for him to be on Hannah B's season but he didn't accept going into it coz he was young. And then for Clare's he had to return coz of Covid, but then they called him back and he knew it was Clare as the Bachelorette, he didn't go through with it coz he was not into her. So you can say that in a way, he was only interested in Katie and actually came to the show for her. People really need to stop judging someone based on 1 or 2 things they hear on the Internet. Also, lots of other contestants were supposed to be in someone else's season but then got recast for one reason or the other.
@@jengreeeen thank you for clearing that up! I’m not a fan of the bachelorette or anything so it’s good to know!
I stand by my opinion that it could be acting solely based on it being a reality show but my other reasons are unfair
Thank you for explaining gas lighting. As I understand it, I agree 100% with your evaluation. Greg had distorted thoughts which he was expressing to her in a disrespectful manner. This happened in one night, not over the course of a longer period of time. The behavior he displayed was far from the clinical definition of gas lighting. I really don’t like people casually throwing this term around, which Katie did, because it does a big injustice to those who actually experience it. I wish people would be more intentional with the language they use, understand the depth of a concept, and apply it correctly.
Agree.
I will say that I have experienced gaslighting. The clinical version. Very clear and well documented. The behavior he displayed does not take away from my experience. In fact, I recognized it as gaslighting behavior. I think a lot of people are in this position (although, not all). I also recommend Dr. Ramani.
Yess!! Thank you, it’s like people nowadays see a term “defined” by some social media influencer or some therapist and then they run with the term and it gets misused, which causes harm to people who Actually suffer from the symptom/disorder, in this case, gaslighting. And people do this with all kinds of psychological terms(Idk if psychological is the right word?) or with disorders like borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder and symptoms like dissociation, which when you dismiss and misuse terms like that that describe serious suffering and pain, you are stigmatizing the people who go through that, you make it harder for those people to get compassion from family and friends, it’s harder for these people to get the correct help from medical professionals. And it’s not cool, and so many times all it takes is googling the new term you came across and looking at multiple sources to get the real definition
@@Catsheal - I don't think Katie or people like her are misinformed about the proper definition of "gaslighting" because of social media, etc.. They close not to educate themselves properly and learn the correct definition of something before throwing it around. Greg did not gaslight her. He was being an immature and petulant child, but definitely not gaslighting her.
@@SilkyShish I mean they wouldn’t know the word because they see it on social media and the misinformation spreads like wildfire. But I agree these people don’t bother to educate themselves
He doesn't seem honest to me. Feels like he's acting. It reminds of a male character from Twilight.
Eta: I don't watch this show nor did I know about the acting class stuff, but it did come across that he was acting
I think Greg went too far in the initial fights, but to me it was clear that he was in a really bad headspace and distraught. Even though he sucked and was acting irrational and pretty rude, it was understandable and, from my perspective, was not really malicious?? Watching it, it felt like, clearly this is a Greg issue that he has to work on and at that point, nothing Katie could do would have helped him because he was spiraling. Even though he did lash out at her, if we looked at it objectively, it was not really a personal attack but a projection.. but I suppose that is hard to internalize: knowing that at that point, she does not have to take responsibility for his insecurity.
And while I understand that he really hurt Katie and confused her and left her feeling distraught, I think it was a really low blow for her to accuse him of acting the whole time. Like Dr. Honda said, it feels pretty clear that this guy is going through a lot of personal issues, trauma, and grief. And it feels like he has been maybe one of the most genuine people on this show in terms of voicing his struggles and being vulnerable (to the extent that he is over sharing and catastrophizing his concerns). And if she accuses him of acting, then it's kind of an accusation on his family for also being actors??! They attested that he has really been struggling and hasn't even confided in them about the death of his dad. Additionally, would a man who semi recently lost his father then use the death of his father to build clout with the bachelorette just to get more screen time on the show?? He would really have to get his story straight with his family and be an oscar worthy, deranged actor to have concocted a story like this. So I feel like accusing him of acting on live television, given all these points, is really Katie taking it too far. Especially as someone who had also lost her father a few years ago.
But then again, I think this accusation really felt like a "you hurt me so I am going to hurt you too." I get that it was coming from a place of hurt and may have also been her transferring trauma from past relationships onto him in this moment. Idk, it's just really messy and shows that they both stopped viewing the other's actions with positive intent which in turn wrecks any meaningful understanding and productive conflict moving forward.
Overall, I think both of them were wrong and both of them were right, at different points. Apparently the initial fights lasted for hours and it is possible that some nasty things were cut, we will never know. But I do just feel like the "acting" comment was in really bad taste and not fair. It devalues any vulnerability that he did share with her and it feels like a personal attack. Frankly, it is an attack on his character. And to compare, I don't think he really ever consciously stooped that low to make an attack on her personal character. So idk, that comment just doesn't sit right with me.
You should do an episode on james saroka. I think hes a good example of a gas lighter (i think anyway)
He has a lot of pain, not just because of his dad but after his dad death went to therapy and his therapist died too so idk lets be lest judgy and have more compassion like dr honda says you don’t have to put up with it but we can have compassion
Oh my god, Greg's voice tremors, it's like he took acting classes from a B-list Meryl Streep. I fully believe he went on this show to jumpstart his acting career. He's so demonstrative. His every word rings so false. Imagine dating someone who was method acting their whole life.
I disagree.
@@SilkyShish good for you
@@bigwhy6845 - Lol. And good for you for having a completely false assessment of him. Do your research buddy.
Katie was also becoming TikTok famous before The Bachelor so you could say something similar about why she got on the show too. Most of the cast is somewhat Internet famous or wanting to be.
Greg reacts to his performance on the show on the podcast The Vial Files, can be watched on TH-cam. I loved seeing what he has to say, introspection and all, and would you to hear your thoughts on it.
Are you going to react to the rest of the conversation between the two of them? There's a bunch of stuff that Greg said that you didnt react to and he gives his side of the story. You could also react to the Vial Files podcast where they have Greg on and he gives an in depth conversation on his situation and thoughts over everything. I feel like Greg has barely had a voice outside of that.
Dr kirk in an interview with nick vial (on youtube) Greg is a lot more open about everything and even talks about therapy! May give some more insights and he was a lot more introspective and regretful that when on here and during the dumping
Greg seems to have a variation of a narcissistic personality disorder, he needed constant reassurance which she freely gave multiple times & when she clarified herself even in the last few moments together..he picked her apart for, "supposedly"..not using an exact phrase atm. Even when she went back, after things cooled down, he proceeded to blameshift it All on her. poor guy..😒
Greg was hurtful in some moments towards Katie in their fight, but, think Katie was going way too hard at ATFR. I have other reasons as to why i dislike katies behaviour, but it's usually not recieved well because it has to do with race. Im just glad this season is a wrap lol
I also think that the reason of 'you know what you signed up for' is not as black and white when youre near the end. Greg is right, youre days away from an engagement and shes still expressing her feelings to him in the context of the show instead of just in general. Its a tough situation all around
I agree with your points here. Katie's behaviour on AFR was completely over the top and vicious and immature. Even though, she had a right to be angry, It was not a healthy or positive way to communicate or express anger. And then to falsely accuse him of being an actor and lying. That was really petty and childish.
The show killed this relatio ship byt showing greg how blake and her ware on their date. And she was inlove and kissing blake.. So in his mind.. She loves blake.. But maybe she loves him too. So when he told her that he loves her and she didnt respond in a positive manier, he just put in his head that she loves blake more.. It is like.. Your fears become true. And he was right.. Now she is with blake🤷🏽.. If she really loved him more.. She would have stayed single till now.. And maybe they could have been together again in the future. And also.. Greg waited and waited for months.. Thinking she would look for him but when he saw her instagram, he realised that she must be engaged with someone else. Sooo.. It is a very very sad story
lol so we cant trust anyone from acting school now ? thats lowkey triggering cause i've ben accused of manipulating so many times when i was younger because of my intense emotions, mostly by my parents, and I would totally have seen them say something like bringing up the acting school agrument.
Greg isn’t stupid I’m pretty sure he realized he was no longer the front runner and panicked....
You could totally see she was way more sexually attracted to Blake and their goals in LA aligned way better than Greg.
I loved him from day one on the show- he was wholesome and ready for a family.... but the moment Blake came you could see all her attention went right to Blake and Greg was asking without asking “don’t make me second place” and he realized he was going to be second place and she couldn’t say yes or no which upset him