Easily the best League show out there. Dom when he is motivated and talking about the game in a constructive way, like the Lucian Nami segment, is easily the best League analyst/personality out there. And you both have better chemistry than even SI IMO Shame it only covers LEC but we will take it.
@@coybackus7665 so you need a play by play caster, who would you take instead? Maybe quickshot? Or initialise? I just think drakos personality wise would make for a great cast with Dom, and we already know he has great chemistry with cadrel
1:10:35 What's crazy is that if you watch LEC mic check you'll hear that Markoon calls "We have no wave guys, I think go elder no?" and Miky says "we have a wave, we have wave, need to end" which I find mind blowing.. you'd think it would be the rookie calling to end and the veteran calling for elder, not the other way around
I feel like Dom's analysis just gets better when he's trying not to compare to the east/be negative because instead his criticism becomes much more objective like when he was talking about nami ult usage
You are right but sadly 95% of Nami players think "ah but if I hit the bubble and then combo with R then we get the perfect engage" - like NO! that happens 1 time out of 100 and 99 times you will have stood in place for 2 seconds casting Q W R in melee range and miss the enemy carries at the same time. It's just not a thing but it feels like it should be. I grief every time I'm on Nami too but I'm not duo with Upset and Unforgiven XD
When you watch the Voicecomms for the Excel game markoon even says , that they should go elder and miky says they have a wave inb4 Gragas barrel happens. Kinda sadge that the "rookie" had the better call...
@@triggerbutton9208 I leave too or say get a support who isn't overshadowing a call from a jgl lol that series was so rough to watch cause xl should of beaten fnc
The west for the most part is awful with Nami/Lucian.. But i have seen even in the LPL teams having Lucian/Nami.. be winning and then the Sivir/Zeri + Yumi or Lulu gets a pick/wins a fight and just completely outscales and takes over because its also easier to play/navigate teamfights compared to lucian/nami I don't know (especially in the West) why you would put yourself into that situation Also if FNC do the same type of drafting G2 did (vs MSF) and they did vs Excel.. they will just lose Don't leave open Yumi, Zerri or Sivir.. stop fucking target banning Zanzarah.. he really is not that good even with his picks.. and he can still go down to sej/skarner and be his usual fairly decent self. Ban Neon out the fucking game.. pick or ban Sylas and Yumi.. Irrelevant off Orn/sej type tanks G2 have the ability and team play to allow MSF to get this stuff and still win.. FNC do not
G2 feels like a much more confident team and they are flexible enough to do everything, give msf comfort pick and see how they can play and they still lose
@@hana_irl123 agreed. They are also extremely flexible beyond the draft. Every single player can play a carry. Even targamas can play senna and be a huge damage source. Teams like fnatic are only really successful if their bot is carrying. Maybe it’s the environment where they don’t allow other roles to carry. But it seems like the only playstyle they choose to have is win through bot. Which they have the botlane players to do, but it makes their playstyle extremely predictable.
@@atcharaphunsanson7956 Zeri and Yumi have over 51% win rate in LPL playoffs (you know the good teams).. this is with Zeri being picked by far the most of any champ And besides even if the actual win rate was low.. it doesn't invalidate the actual point i am making.. Zeri + Yumi are ALWAYS in the game until the nexus is down.. i have seen it happen in the LPL and LCK who operate on a higher level then the LEC and WAY WAY higher level then the LCS.. if it happens in those regions.. there is no reason to be opting into these matchups in EU/NA
@@atcharaphunsanson7956 Winrate only matters if all teams have equal strength. If the best team picks a weak champion it will have unrealistic winrate. If the worst team picks a strong champion it will have unrealistic winrate.
Game 2 G2 vs MSF wasn't G2's botlane issue, just draft diff as they drafter 1 carry comp with no other damage sources, they played better than MSF but simply got outdamaged in fights
You made LEC Euphoria unwatchable for me by being too good in comparison. They hardly ever say anything of interest on that show, all of their opinions are bland and basic. You on the other hand... What an intriguing (and way more accurate at that) assessment of the league. Ty.
I wonder if anyone can actually give a good justification for Yamato as a coach after this split. Like aside from having a bigger name and a deeper voice, I'd actually say he isn't any more qualified to be the coach for this team than Mephisto is for Vitality. I mean okay, everyone knew coming in that he has bad game knowledge (compared to the likes of Dylan Falco etc.) but with these players it shouldn't really matter. He was supposed to be the guy who could bring these already great players together and channel them into a great team by improving their communication, getting their philosophies to work well with the others and getting their personalities on the same page. But exactly that seemed to be their biggest issue over the entire year. Actually in the beginning of spring it seemed to be better than it is now which suggests that he was not only unable to solve the issues coming up over time but he actually let them pile on and thereby get bigger and bigger which is reflected be the team getting progressively worse when it came to communication and being on the same page throughout the year. It seems like he really was just very good at making people around him believe that he is this sophisticated guy who is well read on philosophy and all that while actually just knowing enough to appear as an expert to people who know nothing. Like even his hallmark speeches seem to have the opposite effect. They might work with rookies but any experienced veteran will just cringe at them (look at Wunder in any of their videos) and take nothing from them because they really are just empty calories. Same when he streams. He is either saying nothing or things that are objectively wrong with enough conviction and authority to make people believe him. I honestly think that a real coach (like Dylan) could have done so much with these players but with Yamato their talent (and the incredible amount of money the org must have paid for them) seems to just be waisted. Its honestly like buying the best and finest ingredients and then cooking them in some shirty oil, without any seasoning and on a stove that can't produce even heat.
as a casual 400k nami myself, its SO EASY to throw down an ult and immediately bubble 2/3 people after the knockup... 3 free seconds of aoe cc, FREE! like, she is such a powerful champion, for years in my opinion, and seeing the way both western pros and casuals play her, is extremely lackluster.
1:38:40 but Thorin, the LPL superteams also didn't do well. TES and JDG were not what would be described as a "superteam" on formation, and out of the remaining 4 teams in gauntlet only LNG fits the description. G2, MAD and Rogue are the top 3 teams in playoffs currently in LEC and were also not formed as superteams, so that's a bad point.
I don't share Dom's opinion on Upsets performance in the series. Yes he did get caught in some situations but he did the most damage (iirc) in every teamfight they displayed. In his Twitch game he was just a manace no one could even fight him. I don't think fanatic wins this game with any other western adc especially not in a game 5 Lucien Nami game. Just my opinion. Great show, keep it up!
The Twitch game where he would've lost the entire game walking into Seju by himself? He's lucky Nukeduck and Mikyx didn't want to win that series or that play would've been pointed to way more.
Lucian Nami for Fnatic has been horrible to watch, people know about it they just don't want to play it because there are so many easy pairings or stronger ADCs
i have a topic why is europe so weak this year? is it because all the rebuild rosters need more time? is it bc certain key players dont have enough support or bc vit and fnc didnt work out?
I don’t think they’re super weak specifically, I think that the top teams didn’t spike in the regular season (except 2nd rr g2 which was like 8-1). And the bottom teams really stepped up. AST sk and excel were all pretty clean compared to what we’ve seen from them in the past. Even bds was taking games off top teams like rogue and g2. But also I think one problem with EU is that they play bo1’s during the regular season. No bo5 practice beyond scrims and playoffs. Eastern teams constantly play series so they have a ton of practice in it.
@@skaddyvenom7613 noone would watch the games then, people already dont give a shit about series with the bottom 4 teams in them and making it into 2-3 games is pure torture
Actually the decision for Fnatic is easy. Keep the roster and get a real coach who can actually bridge these players and get them to actually talk. Because the way they play it seems like Yamato never even adressed their obvious misalignments and just expected the players to just work it out. Basically just get Dylan.
Imo Fnatic is dumb if they dont go for Vetheo+Neon in the offseason. Ship Humanoid to NA where he wants to be and Upset has just not worked out for 2 seasons
I hate this narrative about Rogue. Why should they need to win worlds in order to get some praise? Why is not enough to be a top 3 EU team. They beat MAD but people still think less of them.
@@joaomiguel178 Exactly dude, it was team changes, not team improvement. They lost their best players and still competing. Why do people hold this team to higher standards than the one from the last year? People set the standard for them to win worlds and they are shiting of them for not being the best team in the world.
@@daniflesariu4584 It is hard to describe logically why people doesn't believe in Rogue. I don't believe in Rogue because for me they don't have the "winner" aura. They can win in regular split how many times they want but in the most most important moment they will 100% choke and until Rogue prove me wrong they will stay the same team for me, and for a lot of ppl too
The narrative isn’t that they’re bad. It’s that they aren’t specifically good in best of 5’s, high pressure situations, and clutch moments. Rge vs mad was a bit better because they did clutch up. But historically, they’ve always been a top regular split team, and drop out in the last few rounds of playoffs. No one is saying rogue is on par with sk and ast. But they are NOT on par with teams that are quite experienced and good in high stakes like g2 and historically fnatic. It’s not surprising no one has any bo5 expectations for them because they always seem to come up short, regardless of how good they are on paper.
@@antosqa7343 I also don't believe in Rogue to win. That's why I don't understand why people are not giving them credit for what they managed to do with so few resources and they rather prefer to shit on them.
@JASON Fry Here is the think day after day he chnges his opinion. It's not dumb it's funny :> One day he says G2 is strong day after that they are not. He is seen as an expert my dear so who makes the dumb comments ;]
@@matrema69 g2 is the strongest team in lec by far rn, but did not have the best series against msf. idk how thats a 'strange take' to you. literally both can be true at the same time lmao
This unique episode is finally revealing the mind-blowing secret info everybody was waiting for:
Thorin is an OTP Nami.
Figured him to be a top laner.
Easily the best League show out there. Dom when he is motivated and talking about the game in a constructive way, like the Lucian Nami segment, is easily the best League analyst/personality out there. And you both have better chemistry than even SI IMO
Shame it only covers LEC but we will take it.
Dom switching from being your everyday gameplay streamer to the analysis type streamer he is nowadays was one of the best things to happen in league.
Oh fuck can you imagine the cadrel drakos Dom tricast for a bo5
@@Dardobul drakos doesn't get me hype in that trio at all
@@coybackus7665 so you need a play by play caster, who would you take instead? Maybe quickshot? Or initialise?
I just think drakos personality wise would make for a great cast with Dom, and we already know he has great chemistry with cadrel
@@Dardobul caedrel is shite
1:10:35 What's crazy is that if you watch LEC mic check you'll hear that Markoon calls "We have no wave guys, I think go elder no?" and Miky says "we have a wave, we have wave, need to end" which I find mind blowing.. you'd think it would be the rookie calling to end and the veteran calling for elder, not the other way around
I feel like Dom's analysis just gets better when he's trying not to compare to the east/be negative because instead his criticism becomes much more objective like when he was talking about nami ult usage
More like trying not to compare to LPL
Thorin is 100% right on Nami. I've played a few thousand games of her too and it hurts to watch some of these western supports play her.
They need loose goose as a positional coach frfr
Right goos. It hurts to just see them throw the ult everytime.
Thats not something you want to admit
Thorin admitting he has loads of games on Nami, respect.
Nami players should just treat nami wave the same way they treat Renata wave. It‘s the same concept
You are right but sadly 95% of Nami players think "ah but if I hit the bubble and then combo with R then we get the perfect engage" - like NO! that happens 1 time out of 100 and 99 times you will have stood in place for 2 seconds casting Q W R in melee range and miss the enemy carries at the same time. It's just not a thing but it feels like it should be. I grief every time I'm on Nami too but I'm not duo with Upset and Unforgiven XD
When you watch the Voicecomms for the Excel game markoon even says , that they should go elder and miky says they have a wave inb4 Gragas barrel happens. Kinda sadge that the "rookie" had the better call...
I was just about to comment this. It was so sad to listen to.
lol markoon must be leaving next year
@@triggerbutton9208 I leave too or say get a support who isn't overshadowing a call from a jgl lol that series was so rough to watch cause xl should of beaten fnc
Really like this episode from dom i feel like he put alot more effort into his analysis
The west for the most part is awful with Nami/Lucian.. But i have seen even in the LPL teams having Lucian/Nami.. be winning and then the Sivir/Zeri + Yumi or Lulu gets a pick/wins a fight and just completely outscales and takes over because its also easier to play/navigate teamfights compared to lucian/nami
I don't know (especially in the West) why you would put yourself into that situation
Also if FNC do the same type of drafting G2 did (vs MSF) and they did vs Excel.. they will just lose
Don't leave open Yumi, Zerri or Sivir.. stop fucking target banning Zanzarah.. he really is not that good even with his picks.. and he can still go down to sej/skarner and be his usual fairly decent self. Ban Neon out the fucking game.. pick or ban Sylas and Yumi.. Irrelevant off Orn/sej type tanks
G2 have the ability and team play to allow MSF to get this stuff and still win.. FNC do not
G2 feels like a much more confident team and they are flexible enough to do everything, give msf comfort pick and see how they can play and they still lose
Why does zeri have a below 50% win rate in LPL if what your saying is true?
@@hana_irl123 agreed. They are also extremely flexible beyond the draft. Every single player can play a carry. Even targamas can play senna and be a huge damage source. Teams like fnatic are only really successful if their bot is carrying. Maybe it’s the environment where they don’t allow other roles to carry. But it seems like the only playstyle they choose to have is win through bot. Which they have the botlane players to do, but it makes their playstyle extremely predictable.
@@atcharaphunsanson7956 Zeri and Yumi have over 51% win rate in LPL playoffs (you know the good teams).. this is with Zeri being picked by far the most of any champ
And besides even if the actual win rate was low.. it doesn't invalidate the actual point i am making.. Zeri + Yumi are ALWAYS in the game until the nexus is down.. i have seen it happen in the LPL and LCK who operate on a higher level then the LEC and WAY WAY higher level then the LCS.. if it happens in those regions.. there is no reason to be opting into these matchups in EU/NA
@@atcharaphunsanson7956 Winrate only matters if all teams have equal strength.
If the best team picks a weak champion it will have unrealistic winrate.
If the worst team picks a strong champion it will have unrealistic winrate.
Dom is the coach and ratirl is the analyst
Game 2 G2 vs MSF wasn't G2's botlane issue, just draft diff as they drafter 1 carry comp with no other damage sources, they played better than MSF but simply got outdamaged in fights
Do they actually play better than misfits because from what I saw Zanzarah did actually be proactive with Sejuani with bot ganks
You made LEC Euphoria unwatchable for me by being too good in comparison. They hardly ever say anything of interest on that show, all of their opinions are bland and basic. You on the other hand... What an intriguing (and way more accurate at that) assessment of the league. Ty.
I wonder if anyone can actually give a good justification for Yamato as a coach after this split. Like aside from having a bigger name and a deeper voice, I'd actually say he isn't any more qualified to be the coach for this team than Mephisto is for Vitality. I mean okay, everyone knew coming in that he has bad game knowledge (compared to the likes of Dylan Falco etc.) but with these players it shouldn't really matter. He was supposed to be the guy who could bring these already great players together and channel them into a great team by improving their communication, getting their philosophies to work well with the others and getting their personalities on the same page. But exactly that seemed to be their biggest issue over the entire year. Actually in the beginning of spring it seemed to be better than it is now which suggests that he was not only unable to solve the issues coming up over time but he actually let them pile on and thereby get bigger and bigger which is reflected be the team getting progressively worse when it came to communication and being on the same page throughout the year. It seems like he really was just very good at making people around him believe that he is this sophisticated guy who is well read on philosophy and all that while actually just knowing enough to appear as an expert to people who know nothing. Like even his hallmark speeches seem to have the opposite effect. They might work with rookies but any experienced veteran will just cringe at them (look at Wunder in any of their videos) and take nothing from them because they really are just empty calories. Same when he streams. He is either saying nothing or things that are objectively wrong with enough conviction and authority to make people believe him. I honestly think that a real coach (like Dylan) could have done so much with these players but with Yamato their talent (and the incredible amount of money the org must have paid for them) seems to just be waisted. Its honestly like buying the best and finest ingredients and then cooking them in some shirty oil, without any seasoning and on a stove that can't produce even heat.
as a casual 400k nami myself, its SO EASY to throw down an ult and immediately bubble 2/3 people after the knockup... 3 free seconds of aoe cc, FREE! like, she is such a powerful champion, for years in my opinion, and seeing the way both western pros and casuals play her, is extremely lackluster.
1:38:40 but Thorin, the LPL superteams also didn't do well. TES and JDG were not what would be described as a "superteam" on formation, and out of the remaining 4 teams in gauntlet only LNG fits the description. G2, MAD and Rogue are the top 3 teams in playoffs currently in LEC and were also not formed as superteams, so that's a bad point.
TES was 100% a supposed superteam when Zoom came
Western teams playing Nami too literally - using the ult to fish
I don't share Dom's opinion on Upsets performance in the series. Yes he did get caught in some situations but he did the most damage (iirc) in every teamfight they displayed. In his Twitch game he was just a manace no one could even fight him.
I don't think fanatic wins this game with any other western adc especially not in a game 5 Lucien Nami game.
Just my opinion. Great show, keep it up!
The Twitch game where he would've lost the entire game walking into Seju by himself? He's lucky Nukeduck and Mikyx didn't want to win that series or that play would've been pointed to way more.
Kinda sucks that there’s a show with my favorite 2 commentators and they don’t talk about the LCS. Feels bad
Like Dom said, he's trying to be less negative, easiest way to achieve that is to never mention LCS
Western support players cant play nami for shit. the amount of times i see them miss easy 4 man ults is astronomical.
Great show! I love Nami now!!
Lucian Nami for Fnatic has been horrible to watch, people know about it they just don't want to play it because there are so many easy pairings or stronger ADCs
Although its bad fnc is still the best lucian nami bot we have in EU sad but true
i have a topic why is europe so weak this year? is it because all the rebuild rosters need more time? is it bc certain key players dont have enough support or bc vit and fnc didnt work out?
I don’t think they’re super weak specifically, I think that the top teams didn’t spike in the regular season (except 2nd rr g2 which was like 8-1). And the bottom teams really stepped up. AST sk and excel were all pretty clean compared to what we’ve seen from them in the past. Even bds was taking games off top teams like rogue and g2.
But also I think one problem with EU is that they play bo1’s during the regular season. No bo5 practice beyond scrims and playoffs. Eastern teams constantly play series so they have a ton of practice in it.
Hopefully we stop with boring BO1s format. It's right about time to spaw into Bo3s.
@@devinmurphy6575 i dont think an eu team can get out of groups this year maybe if they get a lucky draw
@@skaddyvenom7613 noone would watch the games then, people already dont give a shit about series with the bottom 4 teams in them and making it into 2-3 games is pure torture
@@Nnothingg- i mean there are no weak teams in lec besides bds so almost all series would be somewhat interesting
53:30 lmfao
Actually the decision for Fnatic is easy. Keep the roster and get a real coach who can actually bridge these players and get them to actually talk. Because the way they play it seems like Yamato never even adressed their obvious misalignments and just expected the players to just work it out. Basically just get Dylan.
Imo Fnatic is dumb if they dont go for Vetheo+Neon in the offseason. Ship Humanoid to NA where he wants to be and Upset has just not worked out for 2 seasons
LEC looks really bad for sure but NA looks beyond hopeless dogshit this year..
Both are hopeless dogshit lol G2 looks good sure they get to beat up on rge/fnc but that's as far as it goes
Fnatic fans unironically saying that Fnatic has the best macro in the region lmao.
where have you seen that :D
@@botnerrolf7282 check r/Fnatic
@@valentinyovkov6488 can we all just agree to ignore reddit at this point. We all know the biggest lunatics in this community are on that platform.
Im Fnatic fan and i think they play so bad right now.
betting on rogue LOL
I hate this narrative about Rogue. Why should they need to win worlds in order to get some praise? Why is not enough to be a top 3 EU team. They beat MAD but people still think less of them.
because that was impressive in 2020 summer the first time they did it its 2022 summer and theyve shown 0 improvement despite team changes
@@joaomiguel178 Exactly dude, it was team changes, not team improvement. They lost their best players and still competing. Why do people hold this team to higher standards than the one from the last year? People set the standard for them to win worlds and they are shiting of them for not being the best team in the world.
@@daniflesariu4584 It is hard to describe logically why people doesn't believe in Rogue. I don't believe in Rogue because for me they don't have the "winner" aura. They can win in regular split how many times they want but in the most most important moment they will 100% choke and until Rogue prove me wrong they will stay the same team for me, and for a lot of ppl too
The narrative isn’t that they’re bad. It’s that they aren’t specifically good in best of 5’s, high pressure situations, and clutch moments. Rge vs mad was a bit better because they did clutch up. But historically, they’ve always been a top regular split team, and drop out in the last few rounds of playoffs.
No one is saying rogue is on par with sk and ast. But they are NOT on par with teams that are quite experienced and good in high stakes like g2 and historically fnatic.
It’s not surprising no one has any bo5 expectations for them because they always seem to come up short, regardless of how good they are on paper.
@@antosqa7343 I also don't believe in Rogue to win. That's why I don't understand why people are not giving them credit for what they managed to do with so few resources and they rather prefer to shit on them.
Tom Brady owns you thorin
I feel a fnc win in summer
What year are you watching? Because it can't be this one
@@magnificentsswiper6274 when fnc is the worst always seems to clutch up playfoffs. Gameplay related? absloutly nothing
@@ferminandresparra3266 mad is going to rape them
@@magnificentsswiper6274 time to bet for them homie
It;s funny. You watch all the shows and you can see how thorins opinin change depending who he's talking too. It's just too funny xD
NA guy that acomplished nothing talking to CS guy about EU Lol :D
@JASON Fry Here is the think day after day he chnges his opinion. It's not dumb it's funny :> One day he says G2 is strong day after that they are not. He is seen as an expert my dear so who makes the dumb comments ;]
@@matrema69 g2 is the strongest team in lec by far rn, but did not have the best series against msf. idk how thats a 'strange take' to you. literally both can be true at the same time lmao
who cares about thorins opinion kekw