Very enjoyable video, and your science demonstration illustrated the point perfectly. I never liked foam because it eventually degrades to sticky dust. Looking forward to the next instalment. 😊
I love your style of delivery , it actually makes me get excited to build my own layout. I am hoping to move to the country this year with my husband and get building.. All the best Alex
Aw, thank you! Moving to the countryside will be very exciting - I know, I moved out of London to a very rural area around 14 years ago! You'll love it - and I can't wait to hear about your progress on your layout.
Charlie Bishop (Chadwick model railway) did a similar test of trackbed and glue and found that using a rubber based glue such as copydex (diluted 1:4 for ballasting) maintained the noise reduction of the underlay used.
When I built my model railway in the 1970s, I used cork road bed. It worked fine. In its day, it was state of the art for us modellers in the USA. Bill and Janet from California
I used cork underlay on my previous layout. All very good, Until I ballasted and used pva glue on my woodland scenic ballast. I found it made the cork hard and this increased the noise levels. This foam underlay sound like a great idea. Thank you.
Underlay - reminded me of a line from a Victoria Wood sketch "well I put my underlay down before the gripper rods" (or something to that effect) - putting the cart before the horse!
Great stuff as usual Dawn. I am in the process of building a small round layout I have called Lord Willoughby's Steam Extravaganza. It is based on a real railway built by one of my ancestors and ran from 1855 to 1873. It was known as The Edenham Branch and ran for some four miles in the Lincolnshire countryside. All that remains are the station which is now a pub and a bridge. Its great fun and I have a Rapido Lion to run on it! It will go with the other five layouts sitting/running in my large garage! If you are ever near Market Deeping you'd be welcome to pop in for tea and chat and Grumpy is welcome too!
Not sure whether it's your BBC training, natural talent, or both, but you really do know how to present a piece to camera. That was an extremely clear, informative, and entertaining film. I will very seriously consider using your chosen material when I start mybl retirement project: a comprehensive upgrade of the current layout. My major concern is whether it will degrade badly over time. But there again, if it's used in the kitchen fitting industry it shouls be fine for a couple of decades at least. Did I hear you say "ometer" at one point??? Yes? Oh no.... 😮
I did my entire layout (13'5 x 6ft) with the flooring underlay for 27 quid, laid the track and will cut the excess off after laying is complete with an angled scapel. Great stuff.
Great tutorial Dawn, professionally presented , informative and well explained. But behind the scenes the amount of work preparing for this latest episode must be extremely time consuming, so very well done.
I used 6mm laminate flooring underlay for my entire layout and also as a brick wall covering for sound dampening in my loft. Fantastic alternative product for under the track. I purchased a 12metre x 1 metre roll for only £12.99. Easiest way to cut it to shape is to tack the track down temporarily on the underlay then use a craft knife and cut around the track.
Thanks. Interesting video. I used 2 or 5 layers of 5mm floor underlay (underlay) foam on my layouts. However, I do cover the whole layout with it. It allows features to be cut out of it for things lower than track level. Culverts, streams, ponds etc. Then I glue layers together and cut with a hot wire to make mounds etc On the layout with 5 layers, there will be a river going under a water mill, so the outflow of the water needs to be considerably lower than the track. I can do all of this without having to cut holes in the baseboard. Useful to know the sound values for it. I bought a can of spray sleeper grime to age my track. Quick and simple, but I'm sure you have a more detailed option. Thanks again. David
Great idea to cut out layers for ponds and streams. . I’m doing the opposite… building them up 😊 I haven’t seen spray cans of sleeper grime - that sounds very simple and easy. I’ll take a look - thank you!
@@modelrailwayquest RailMatch do a sleeper grime spray. I found it on eBay. A quick coating to take the gloss off the sleepers and rail, then clean the tops of the rail after. Care would be needed near point blades. Be interesting to see how you do your. 👍
Be interesting to see how this turns out. Another film you could do is "The 39 Steps" from 1936 with Robert Donat and Madeleine Carroll. The scene on the Flying Scotsman as it crosses the Forth Bridge and Hannay forces himself on Pamela in the carriage before having to escape the police. (Saucy!) 👍
The top you were wearing with the coordinates 34°N @ 118 W. I found the location, it is a neighborhood southeast of downtown Los Angeles, CA. Bill and Janet from California
Hi Dawn. Nice video. As it's aimed more at people new to hobby, maybe point out in next video , that the underlay / foam trackbed needs to go under any platform areas or the pre built ones from Hornby , Peco, Bachmann etc will be too low and look very strange with coaches next to them. Also ,although you have a sub title under section regarding the glue , it's extremely important to emphasise not to use solvent glues with this flooring underlay as very toxic fumes can be released, in an enclosed room this could be very serious. I learnt the hard way , using poly weld on " yellow foam " insulation, which has the same fire retarder impregnated in it, the cause of the toxic fumes. Just a heads up, not criticism. It's all about learning. Keep up the good work. ❤
You are 95% correct Dawn, underlay is a complex subject, a phone app is not as accurate as a proper SPL meter, but near enough. Those that have done extensive testing have proved that closed cell foam is actually quieter than cork, your test was was not like for like in thickness and the foam you used is somewhat harder than other closed cell foams available that can give better results than cork. In reality the are other factors involved such as the base board design that can enhance sound (the thinner the top, the more it reverberates) or deaden it by the use of thick wood under the base board or even thick foam below below the baseboard.
Definately agree about the base board and its materials, after all it is resonance sounding through it that we hear. Its thickness, density and position/spacing of supports, can all make a big difference. Often pondered fixing other materials to the underside but so far haven't, due to wiring and point motors.
That`s better a far more interesting episode, but when trying the loco switch to "high resistance", as then the loco will not shoot across the track so quickly. That`s if it`s a Hammatt and Morgan controller? To aid and assist in passing the wiring beneath the track add a couple of paper or plastic drinking straws into the gaps, these will aid re fitting the wires if the wring has to be modified at all.. Also, these tubes will act as a sort of secure wiring loom for additional wires that may be required elsewhere upon the board or at a later date. Again, a first-class presentation with that `Smile` added as an additional bonus. Finally, why is one adding the cost of tools employed in the build? Well take care both.
very interesting choice of trackbed, thanks for the tip re: the tramline, tram rails usually have a flat section of rail on the outside of the groove used by the wheel's flange - to depict this I am gluing 1.5mm square evergreen plastic strip (catalogue No.153) which has been painted silver to match the rails to the outside of the tracks ... the top of the plastic strip is flush with the top of the rails. btw, I am using code 100 track
@@modelrailwayquest So far what I have done is experimental - proof of concept - I plan to build the live version of the track next month (September 2024) I've placed two photos of my trial on the RMweb forum page about tram tracks but cannot add a web link here as the message fails to post
I'm glad I found this channel. One observation, this project is really about set design and not model railways. Everything here would apply to Gerry Anderson productions.
Well, as a big fan of Gerry Anderson that's not a bad thing in my eyes. But if it were just a set then it would be a diorama. I love the idea of movement on a layout and love model trains - so combining the artistic element and trains is perfect in my eyes! :-)
Another quality video, and even a scientific demonstration too. Great substitute for cork, sorry 'Model Train Cork' - I hate to think how many model makers and railway modellers pay over the odds, when just a little common sense can knock ££££ of your hobby. Having said that, the cost of your track seems very expensive to me, but then again I'm a general model maker, not a train modeller. anyway great video, and look forward to the next one, "underlay, underlay!" 🙌
I am just getting back into starting a model railway after 40 years (retirement project for the Grandkids of course!) we always used to use what we called softboard or insulation board on top of plywood for sound insulation, I don't understand why it is unpopular now as it is still available, I have no doubt Someone will let me know why Excellent channel too bty
@@modelrailwayquest Its called natural fibre insulation sheet (there is a trade name which escapes me) its 8ft x 4ft sheets used for notice boards too> I thank you for your feed back
@@cedarcam Ah, sundeala. I talk about using this for the baseboard in Episode 2. It's great stuff but not great for damper climates as it can warp. But think perhaps if using in small amounts that are glued down as underlay, that might not be a problem?
I have been told off by Hornby. They say flammable materials should not be used under the track. I would carry out a flammability test with any underlay you plan to use. Apart from that, thanks for an interesting and well-made video ;-}
Hello Dawn, the noise level is likely to be raised a bit when you glue the roadbed material to the base board. Grumpy Cameraman's voice kind of sounds like that of the actor Bernard Fox!
shame you can't add another to your underlay test, closed cell foam tape, i buy it 50mm wide and in big 20 meter rolls for £25. multibuy discount too. found it years back, called armaflex but that brand has a higher price, used it everywhere on my layout on my channel. self adhesive too.
A simple question as to one`s sound deadening ("drumming") experiment. As the base board will be set upon legs or trestles, will it not `drum` more than that as per our experiment being sat upon the carpet❓ Take care.
Dawn, your tally was not complete. You forgot to add in the cost of tea. It's fun watching your videos, but this one was especially beneficial as I never thought of using floor underlayer.
UNDERLAY, UNDERLAY! In American English we call that same stuff "ballast" when it applies to trackbed. Good cost-cutting measures here for all. Ron uses a lot of low-cost styrofoam & building materials for the model airplanes, boats, and trains. The JAGRAF/X family AKA JAGRAFX. 🚂 "Works on Paper, Film, & Special F/X 🚂
Thank you! We call the fine gravelly stuff 'ballast'... is that what you mean? Or the actual underlay itself? Hello to the JAGRAFX family in Colorado! :-)
@@modelrailwayquest Your correct. The "gravely stuff" is "ballast" here across the pond as well. Some folks use cork underlay or other building materials for a model layout rather than purpose-manufactured model shop materials to conserve on costs. Other materials and colors are added to bring the ballasted rail to life. Thanks for the conversation. ❤️ rhj/hmj
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 84 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องศึก vs เมืองไทย"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3kuzsAIDf1c/mqdefault.jpg)
Very enjoyable video, and your science demonstration illustrated the point perfectly. I never liked foam because it eventually degrades to sticky dust. Looking forward to the next instalment. 😊
I love your style of delivery , it actually makes me get excited to build my own layout. I am hoping to move to the country this year with my husband and get building.. All the best Alex
Aw, thank you! Moving to the countryside will be very exciting - I know, I moved out of London to a very rural area around 14 years ago! You'll love it - and I can't wait to hear about your progress on your layout.
Layout is coming along nicely. Thank you for the sound demonstration.
Thank you!
Charlie Bishop (Chadwick model railway) did a similar test of trackbed and glue and found that using a rubber based glue such as copydex (diluted 1:4 for ballasting) maintained the noise reduction of the underlay used.
Interesting! I'll take a look.
An excellent video Dawn have watched it twice it was very interesting
Thanks so much Michael! Glad you found it useful.
Great video. I really enjoyed that. Mexican cameraman is a real professional
It's starting to come together Dawn 😊
It is and it's very exciting!
Painting the board black is a great idea. Thanks.
Thank you!
I paint my underlay a matt brown colour. That way, if there are any gaps in the static grass or other scenery then it looks like earth.
When I built my model railway in the 1970s, I used cork road bed. It worked fine. In its day, it was state of the art for us modellers in the USA. Bill and Janet from California
Excellent video Dawn
Thank you Malcolm! 🙂
Just what I needed !
You're welcome! 🙂
Interesting material but I like how you make tram tracks with it. Love seeing the update and it is starting to take shape. Great Video
Thanks Simon - see you later?
@@modelrailwayquest I see you for the livestream 👍
I used cork underlay on my previous layout. All very good, Until I ballasted and used pva glue on my woodland scenic ballast. I found it made the cork hard and this increased the noise levels. This foam underlay sound like a great idea. Thank you.
That's a very good point - we learn from our mistakes (hopefully!) - well, Grumpy doesn't... :-)
Awesome stuff Dawn. When I get around to doing my track, I will definitely be revisiting this.
Perfect! Please keep me posted on your layout progress! :-)
Underlay - reminded me of a line from a Victoria Wood sketch "well I put my underlay down before the gripper rods" (or something to that effect) - putting the cart before the horse!
😂
Awesome Dawn, great information and Guidence please keep it up best regards Andrew from Downunder ;)
Thank you Andrew!
Making some good progress there Dawn. 👍
Thanks - starting to see it come together!
Just realised you were using the Timbscale mini knife!
I was! It’s really useful - thank you!
Brilliant Dawn, great video very easy to follow, looking forward to your progress
Aw, thank you Maura. x
Great stuff as usual Dawn. I am in the process of building a small round layout I have called Lord Willoughby's Steam Extravaganza. It is based on a real railway built by one of my ancestors and ran from 1855 to 1873. It was known as The Edenham Branch and ran for some four miles in the Lincolnshire countryside. All that remains are the station which is now a pub and a bridge. Its great fun and I have a Rapido Lion to run on it! It will go with the other five layouts sitting/running in my large garage! If you are ever near Market Deeping you'd be welcome to pop in for tea and chat and Grumpy is welcome too!
Not sure whether it's your BBC training, natural talent, or both, but you really do know how to present a piece to camera. That was an extremely clear, informative, and entertaining film.
I will very seriously consider using your chosen material when I start mybl retirement project: a comprehensive upgrade of the current layout. My major concern is whether it will degrade badly over time. But there again, if it's used in the kitchen fitting industry it shouls be fine for a couple of decades at least.
Did I hear you say "ometer" at one point??? Yes? Oh no.... 😮
Aw, thank you Stephen! Oh no, an "ometer" crept in!! :-)
Awesome stuff love it enjoying watching thank you 🚂👍😃😎♥️
Thank you!
I've got to say you're braver than me with an open pot of PVA on a carpeted floor. The first place my knee would go..... Loving the channel!
Now you've mentioned it! :-) There was a secret piece of newspaper under it...
I did my entire layout (13'5 x 6ft) with the flooring underlay for 27 quid, laid the track and will cut the excess off after laying is complete with an angled scapel. Great stuff.
Fantastic! 😊
great job !
Thank you!
Great tutorial Dawn, professionally presented , informative and well explained. But behind the scenes the amount of work preparing for this latest episode must be extremely time consuming, so very well done.
Thank you Chris! I love making the videos!
I used 6mm laminate flooring underlay for my entire layout and also as a brick wall covering for sound dampening in my loft.
Fantastic alternative product for under the track.
I purchased a 12metre x 1 metre roll for only £12.99.
Easiest way to cut it to shape is to tack the track down temporarily on the underlay then use a craft knife and cut around the track.
Brilliant! Model railways, lofts... great price too :-)!
Thanks. Interesting video. I used 2 or 5 layers of 5mm floor underlay (underlay) foam on my layouts.
However, I do cover the whole layout with it. It allows features to be cut out of it for things lower than track level. Culverts, streams, ponds etc. Then I glue layers together and cut with a hot wire to make mounds etc
On the layout with 5 layers, there will be a river going under a water mill, so the outflow of the water needs to be considerably lower than the track. I can do all of this without having to cut holes in the baseboard.
Useful to know the sound values for it.
I bought a can of spray sleeper grime to age my track. Quick and simple, but I'm sure you have a more detailed option.
Thanks again. David
Great idea to cut out layers for ponds and streams. . I’m doing the opposite… building them up 😊 I haven’t seen spray cans of sleeper grime - that sounds very simple and easy. I’ll take a look - thank you!
@@modelrailwayquest RailMatch do a sleeper grime spray. I found it on eBay. A quick coating to take the gloss off the sleepers and rail, then clean the tops of the rail after. Care would be needed near point blades.
Be interesting to see how you do your. 👍
Yes, that's a good point: it's always easier to "build down" (OOBill would agree).
Be interesting to see how this turns out. Another film you could do is "The 39 Steps" from 1936 with Robert Donat and Madeleine Carroll. The scene on the Flying Scotsman as it crosses the Forth Bridge and Hannay forces himself on Pamela in the carriage before having to escape the police. (Saucy!) 👍
The Nigella Lawson of model railways does another great demo again
The top you were wearing with the coordinates 34°N @ 118 W. I found the location, it is a neighborhood southeast of downtown Los Angeles, CA. Bill and Janet from California
Is that right? Wow... thanks for checking! :-)
Hi Dawn. Nice video. As it's aimed more at people new to hobby, maybe point out in next video , that the underlay / foam trackbed needs to go under any platform areas or the pre built ones from Hornby , Peco, Bachmann etc will be too low and look very strange with coaches next to them.
Also ,although you have a sub title under section regarding the glue , it's extremely important to emphasise not to use solvent glues with this flooring underlay as very toxic fumes can be released, in an enclosed room this could be very serious. I learnt the hard way , using poly weld on " yellow foam " insulation, which has the same fire retarder impregnated in it, the cause of the toxic fumes.
Just a heads up, not criticism. It's all about learning. Keep up the good work. ❤
Very good points @terrynutlob4073 - thank you!
You are 95% correct Dawn, underlay is a complex subject, a phone app is not as accurate as a proper SPL meter, but near enough. Those that have done extensive testing have proved that closed cell foam is actually quieter than cork, your test was was not like for like in thickness and the foam you used is somewhat harder than other closed cell foams available that can give better results than cork. In reality the are other factors involved such as the base board design that can enhance sound (the thinner the top, the more it reverberates) or deaden it by the use of thick wood under the base board or even thick foam below below the baseboard.
Thanks Timbersurf - it’s all very interesting. Yes, not “scientific conditions” but my aim was to hopefully illustrate the point.
Definately agree about the base board and its materials, after all it is resonance sounding through it that we hear. Its thickness, density and position/spacing of supports, can all make a big difference. Often pondered fixing other materials to the underside but so far haven't, due to wiring and point motors.
That`s better a far more interesting episode, but when trying the loco switch to "high resistance", as then the loco will not shoot across the track so quickly.
That`s if it`s a Hammatt and Morgan controller?
To aid and assist in passing the wiring beneath the track add a couple of paper or plastic drinking straws into the gaps, these will aid re fitting the wires if the wring has to be modified at all..
Also, these tubes will act as a sort of secure wiring loom for additional wires that may be required elsewhere upon the board or at a later date.
Again, a first-class presentation with that `Smile` added as an additional bonus.
Finally, why is one adding the cost of tools employed in the build?
Well take care both.
very interesting choice of trackbed, thanks for the tip
re: the tramline, tram rails usually have a flat section of rail on the outside of the groove used by the wheel's flange - to depict this I am gluing 1.5mm square evergreen plastic strip (catalogue No.153) which has been painted silver to match the rails to the outside of the tracks ... the top of the plastic strip is flush with the top of the rails. btw, I am using code 100 track
That sounds very interesting - would be great to see the finished product. :-)
@@modelrailwayquest So far what I have done is experimental - proof of concept - I plan to build the live version of the track next month (September 2024)
I've placed two photos of my trial on the RMweb forum page about tram tracks but cannot add a web link here as the message fails to post
I'm glad I found this channel. One observation, this project is really about set design and not model railways. Everything here would apply to Gerry Anderson productions.
Well, as a big fan of Gerry Anderson that's not a bad thing in my eyes. But if it were just a set then it would be a diorama. I love the idea of movement on a layout and love model trains - so combining the artistic element and trains is perfect in my eyes! :-)
Another quality video, and even a scientific demonstration too.
Great substitute for cork, sorry 'Model Train Cork' - I hate to think how many model makers and railway modellers pay over the odds, when just a little common sense can knock ££££ of your hobby. Having said that, the cost of your track seems very expensive to me, but then again I'm a general model maker, not a train modeller.
anyway great video, and look forward to the next one, "underlay, underlay!" 🙌
I am just getting back into starting a model railway after 40 years (retirement project for the Grandkids of course!) we always used to use what we called softboard or insulation board on top of plywood for sound insulation, I don't understand why it is unpopular now as it is still available, I have no doubt Someone will let me know why
Excellent channel too bty
Thank you Paul - I'll take a look at softboard
@@modelrailwayquest Its called natural fibre insulation sheet (there is a trade name which escapes me) its 8ft x 4ft sheets used for notice boards too> I thank you for your feed back
@@paulentwistle6343 The trade name may be "Homasote".
@@paulentwistle6343 I never used it but think it was called Sundealer
@@cedarcam Ah, sundeala. I talk about using this for the baseboard in Episode 2. It's great stuff but not great for damper climates as it can warp. But think perhaps if using in small amounts that are glued down as underlay, that might not be a problem?
I have been told off by Hornby. They say flammable materials should not be used under the track. I would carry out a flammability test with any underlay you plan to use. Apart from that, thanks for an interesting and well-made video ;-}
Indeed!
Don’t put the meter near grumpy might go off the scale 😂 doing a great job of the layout so far 👍
He'd break it, don't you think?
@@modelrailwayquest deafen’itly think you could be right there
@@stevenbarnett2497 Ha! I see what you did there! ;-)
Hi Dawn, what’s the depth of the wood floor underlay and where’s the best place to get it?
It's around 5mm thick - do a quick Google search of Fine Floor Techni-Board. I just checked and I've seen it as cheap as £12 for 10 panels. :-)
Hello Dawn, the noise level is likely to be raised a bit when you glue the roadbed material to the base board. Grumpy Cameraman's voice kind of sounds like that of the actor Bernard Fox!
Yes, agreed, thank you. Bernard Fox? I need to do a quick Google… 😊
shame you can't add another to your underlay test, closed cell foam tape, i buy it 50mm wide and in big 20 meter rolls for £25. multibuy discount too. found it years back, called armaflex but that brand has a higher price, used it everywhere on my layout on my channel. self adhesive too.
That sounds brilliant - we might do a test! Watch this space.
I'll share a picture on my channel
A simple question as to one`s sound deadening ("drumming") experiment. As the base board will be set upon legs or trestles, will it not `drum` more than that as per our experiment being sat upon the carpet❓
Take care.
We shall find out!
Very enjoyable, more videos involving you leaning forward would be very welcome
Dawn, your tally was not complete. You forgot to add in the cost of tea. It's fun watching your videos, but this one was especially beneficial as I never thought of using floor underlayer.
😂🫖 - silly me! That’s at least £10 I need to add on to the tally! 😂
Are you sure its a decibel-o-meter and not a "decibel holder" 🤭🤣
😂😂 ooh you! Don’t start… 😂😂😂
UNDERLAY, UNDERLAY! In American English we call that same stuff "ballast" when it applies to trackbed. Good cost-cutting measures here for all. Ron uses a lot of low-cost styrofoam & building materials for the model airplanes, boats, and trains. The JAGRAF/X family AKA JAGRAFX. 🚂 "Works on Paper, Film, & Special F/X 🚂
Thank you! We call the fine gravelly stuff 'ballast'... is that what you mean? Or the actual underlay itself? Hello to the JAGRAFX family in Colorado! :-)
@@modelrailwayquest Your correct. The "gravely stuff" is "ballast" here across the pond as well. Some folks use cork underlay or other building materials for a model layout rather than purpose-manufactured model shop materials to conserve on costs. Other materials and colors are added to bring the ballasted rail to life. Thanks for the conversation. ❤️ rhj/hmj
@@JAGRAFX I will be weathering the ballast a little later - that's the part I really enjoy! :-)