And people think matching up USB cables and connections is tricky! Strange, isn't it, that the prevailing USB cable is now USB-C??? Something about that letter C! But seriously, thanks for this very clear explanation of a rather confusing subject. As a 60 year old new sax player, this topic was particularly perplexing. Yet another example of "non standard" standards.
There are C Tenor (Soprano etc) Saxophones too (F Saxophones too) which are being revived. Having saxophones in every key makes it easier to transpose on the fly to match the ranges of Singers especially on Church Gigs (thanks to extended range).
I now understand what a transposing instrument is, and how to do the transposition. I've subscribed, left a thumbs up and left a comment. (to thank you for it)
andrew oldroyd The StockMarketCrash/Big Band Music happened so the innovations for Mouthpieces didn’t happen for the C-Mel the way they did for the ‘Big4Horns’
Technologically they could make all horns non-transposing but a lot of this stuff holds over from when they couldn't. All the music that was written for Bb, F, Eb instruments etc. helps keep it that way. Also the melody sax had a smaller bore I guess so that it wouldn't play as loud, guess some people disliked this. They wouldn't have to be made like that though. I had a Conn Melody for a min, had some cool features, rolled tone holes, tuner built into the neck. Would have loved for it to have been a tenor--or not needing a full repad even lol.
Apparently Adolphe Sax originally intended his instrument to be in C and F. At that time, he intended them to be orchestral instruments, but they didn't catch on. Then the Wall Street crash and the Depression wrecked the musical instrument market and sax manufacturers had to reduce their ranges. The beginning of the big band craze in the mid '30s made the Bb and Eb popular and marooned the C-melody sax in the music of an earlier period.
Hi Scott, awesome as always...I'm a follower from the UK.....just for your info about the "Brass" family....it's the same for fingerings on valved instruments.... soprano cornet, tenor horn, Eb Bass or tuba are all Eb transposing whereas trumpet, cornet, baritone, euphonium, Bb Bass are Bb transposing. Now trombones in are usually written in bass clef which means they are pitched in concert but in brass bands in the UK the tenor trombone is written in treble clef so becomes a Bb transposing instrument ( different slide positions....urgggh!) I'm afraid French horn is pitched in F so it's out there on its own !!!! Sorry about the length of explanation but I'm a brass player who has seen the light n left the dark side 10 years ago at the age of 40 for alto n tenor sax....hope to catch you for a Skype lesson sometime .....
It's all kind of crazy. All of this could have been corrected by Adolph Sax by saying they are all C instruments. Just have different fingering for soprano/tenor and alto/Bari sopranino bass etc... There F tubas, Bb tubas, and C tubas but they are all considered Concert pitched instruments. You did a great job explaining it that's just my pet pive that all instruments should be in C🎶😉🎵
Thanks for the video..awesome video. Guys Scott is also a wonderful instructor via Skype. Learned so much with just one lesson.This is Collins by the way.
At the most basic, there is octave transposition. Where a written note is played, but due to the size of the instrument, it's an octave higher or lower. It makes sense to standardize the transposition fingerings so that there would not have to be another clef implemented or the use of ledger lines. Early instruments didn't have complex key work so there are limitations in ease of play. Having transposing instruments meant that pieces could be played better because the instrument could play in a certain key more easily. The A-clarinet is a holdover of this. As technology improved and fingering systems, etc, certain instruments became more preferred for pitch and overall sound in their families. I've read that a clarinet in C is pretty terrible sounding as it is smaller than a B-flat clarinet; and smaller instruments tend to have more issues with tuning.
A saxophone is a transposing instrument because they were used in military marching bands like trumpets and saxhorns. This Belgian inventor invented the saxophone round 1840. By 1846 Sax had designed saxophones ranging from sopranino to subcontrabass although not all were built. Composer Hector Berlioz wrote approvingly of the new instrument in 1842 but despite his support saxophones did not become a standard part of the orchestra. Their ability to play technical passages easily like woodwinds yet project loudly like brass instruments led to their inclusion in military bands in France and elsewhere. His reputation helped secure him a job teaching at the Paris Conservatory in 1857.(the last part comes from Wikipedia).
Hi Scott Thank you for all your videos. I play Tenor and find music, especially Indian classical all in Alto. I love to play on Tenor that classical music, I wish you post a video to easily transpose from Alto to Tenor. Thanks again
It's one step counter clockwise on the circle of 5ths/4ths. When the alto is in A the tenor is in D. With the alto is in D the tenor is in G. When the alto is in G the tenor is in C.
Hey Scott, As a beginning amateur saxophone player I benefit a lot from your videos, thank you for that! You explain how the different saxophones transpose very clearly, which is something I came to lean recently, but you do not explain why they have to (as suggested in the video title). Although I see that the fingerings remains the same, why are none of the popular types in C, like the C melody saxophone? Is there a historical perspective to this or mainly the sound? Cheers! (ps. I use the circle of fifths to transpose, 10 minutes on the clock for tenor and 15 for the alto, helps me to remember!)
I don't know why the C melody sax became less popular. It was way before my time. I've played a few and the range feels really strange, but that could just be because I'm so use to the other main 4 saxes. There isn't a real concrete reason that I could find about why instruments transpose outside of the fingerings, but the fingerings are a really important aspect. Could you imagine playing a tenor sax and alto sax and have to learn different fingerings for the same written note? I tend to focus more on the "how do you transpose" side than the "why do you transpose" side.
nice explanation - thanks. I suppose you didn't quite cover why on earth it's not convention to refer to saxophone notes by their concert pitch though.
This gives me a headache. I've for over 20 years. I threw the sheet music away. I went straight to the piano and hit the C note and found the fingering to match that note and that was C to me. I did the rest of the notes the same way. I didn't learn the standard way. So when the piano or guitar player is in the key of G. I think in the same way. I'm in the same key by how I learned it.
Actually if you want to be perfectly correct about saxophones transpositions, and consider also the specific register, it's even more complicated: The soprano is a whole step up from the piano, the alto is a major sixth up, the tenor is a major 9th up, and the bari is an octave plus major 6th up! I know this information isn't that usefull for most people, but if you are working on some composition or arrangment that takes care of specific pitches and specific registers- this is important to know.
Totally off subject. One of the (many) big mistakes I've made in life was getting rid of my SEVENTY-THREE! That one behind you looks like mine I bought in '74. I WANT IT BACK!!! (haha!)
Hey Scott, i just bought my alto and start to play :) I have a little question when it comes to solo - just for understanding :=) not at that level yet From my guitar i know i can solo with a GMaj pentatonic to a Backing Track in the Key of GMaj. So on my alto i have to use the EMaj Pentatonic to be in tune with the same backing track, right?
Now check out these magical tricks! Every baritone saxophonist knows that he can play a bass clef part... tuba, trombone, euphonium, by pretending the sheet music has a treble clef, and adding three sharps or subtracting three flats. And in general, flats become naturals, naturals become sharps. Similarly, a tenor saxophonist can read a tenor clef part, again, pretending it is a treble clef, and adding TWO sharps, subtracting TWO flats, etc. As far as C and F saxes, it is not just the pitch, they have a different timbre. The C Melody has a timbre somewhat between that of tenor and alto. It is lighter, not as full bodied as tenor. Likewise, the F Mezzo Soprano has a timbre between that of alto and soprano sax. Interestingly, the first saxophone A. Sax built was actually a C bass sax. Next came a C soprano. The C and F instruments were going to be intended for use in orchestra.
I comprehend what you’re saying however I couldn’t possibly think of that at the same time I’m playing. And I’m not sure what is meant by the major and or minor up and downs. Does it mean you’re looking at a major scale and going down 3 1/2 steps or a minor scale and going up a whole step.?
To transpose when you sight read takes A LOT of practice, but knowing the transposition for tracks and piano players is pretty easy. For alto just think 3 half steps down from the concert (piano) pitch. For tenor just think one whole step up for the concert pitch.
Down a minor 3rd and up a major 6th end up on the same note. It's two ways of getting to the same place. The easiest way for you to think about it if you don't understand the theory is DOWN 3 HALF STEPS.
So the transposition from concert pitch to alto sax are the same notes as the relative minors would be from that note? Ex: Concert C = Alto Sax A , Concert Eb = Alto Sax C and so on?
First, I didn't make it up 🤣 Music has been written this way for 100s of years. I'm just explaining why. I'm glad that they came up with it, or playing multiple saxophones would be nearly impossible.
I really like the explanation of transposition for an Alto. As a recovering Trumpet player I learned to sign transpose Bb. Add 2 sharps to the key signature and play up a whole step. Look at the music and play different notes. This is doable even when sight reading. Been there did that. I still need to think about the key signature mod needed for Eb but playing up 3 half steps is a good start. I am betting a big reason for building Saxophones in Bb and Eb is those are the transposition of the corresponding Brass band instruments. The Sax was originally designed to sonically bridge between Woodwind and Brass Instruments in a military band context. The most common Trumpet is in Bb as is the Baritone horn which corresponds to the voicing of a Tenor Sax. The Brass Alto Horn and Alto Sax have similar voices and again are both in Eb. The Soprano Sax and Trumpet get the same parts and are both in Bb. Saved a lot of thinking for Military Bands. Yes, C and Bb Trumpets are fingered the same.
That's some great insight. I looked all over to get at the exact reason why they were pitched in Bb and Eb and I couldn't find a definitive answer anywhere.
@@ScottPaddock Do you think that's an inherent property of a saxophone in C though, or rather the design(s) of those specific horns in that era? Also they use either an alto or tenor reed (and mouthpiece, in most cases). I'd be curious to hear a modern reinterpretation of a sax in C with it's own bore design, mouthpieces and reeds.
@@Danieldiazsax Right, I've heard that; he's using a vintage (very old design) horn with an alto mouthpiece and reeds so that doesn't answer the question of how a modern design C sax with its own reeds and mpc would sound.
If you want to call all of the notes/keys/scales by their incorrect names and not be able to switch between alto and tenor, you could technically do that, but it would make your life a lot easier if you used the transposing instrument notation. For example a high G on the clarinet, flute, alto sax, tenor sax, bari sax, and C melody sax all have the same fingering, and look the same on the music staff. If you did not use transposing instrument notation, you would have 4-5 different fingerings that were on bass clef, alto clef & treble clef. It would be EXTREMELY difficult to read music and learn all of the different fingerings.
I don't get why you don't just call the note what it actually is on the piano. Is it just to learn a more uniform fingering faster? So the fingerings is referred to as the same note across instruments?
Yeah, if we called it the name of the piano note then the fingerings for alto & tenor would be completley different. Same with all of the brass instruments, it's a very confusing system that actually works well 😁
"Written C sounds the Key" Play a C on the page on a Bb horn & a Bb shows on the tuner. Play a C on the page on an Eb horn & an Eb pops out. Play a C on the page on an F horn & an F sounds. Play s C on the page on a G horn...etc.
I was only saying the other day why do we have to transpose. Why for example when we first learn to play don't we finger a A but call it c then we wouldn't have to transpose. I completely didn't think about tenor etc having to learn completely new fingerings for them. How dumb am I. Lol. Xxx xxx
@@ScottPaddock Now they finally are because having saxophones in all 12 keys & every octave makes it easier to transpose in order to fit the ranges of vocalists. It doesn't hurt to have these different sounds from different sizes of saxophones in all keys & octaves that can blend in to create a really special.
They were extremely popular in the 1920s. It allowed people to easily read vocal music and play it on saxophone without transposing. I heard that Conn sold almost as many C melody saxes back then as they did altos.
I want to learn the saxophone but now I’m confused and upset. If it’s an Eb then why can’t we call it an Eb?? Why does it have to be called a C when it’s actually not? If it’s a C then why are we calling it an A???
I didn't make the rules. 😂😅🤣 It is a bit confusing, but if on a sax we called a C a C on every instrument, then when switching between the alto and tenor sax you would read music completely different because a C would not be fingered the same on each instrument.
Scott, What is it that Im missing? For Key Signature, lets say : P=Piano, T=Tenor , A=Alto From P to T : P+2#=T; from P to A: P+3#=A I also understand what you are saying: Bb(P), B, C(T) and C(A), C#,D, Eb (P) --- Transposed notes to play. Using same format as Key Signature P +2# = T --> matches Key Signature - Tenor is 2 seminotes above Piano A + 3# = P or P - 3# = A - Alto is 3 seminotes below Piano -- But it does not match Key Signature Why is that? Thank you in advance for any input.
😂🤣😂 Hey James, the sax is made of brass, but considered a woodwind instrument because it makes sound with a vibrating reed. "Brass" instruments (like a trumpet & trombone) make a sound by buzzing into the mouthpiece. Also, sax is often called part of the "brass section" in a horn band (like Tower of Power or Earth Wind & Fire) but we're really woodwind players in disquise 🥸
I don’t transpose. I’m playing the tenor in a small band. I have never seen a tenor sheet. We are all playing with a sheet in concert key. Nobody cares about what it is “for me”, neither do I. Why not just call the D on the tenor for C.
Hans Thjomoe if you’re all Tenor players in your band with no other instruments that’s fine to play with a sheet in concert. if you’re playing with other instruments like alto sax or piano/guitar it’s going to sound horrendous. If you are playing with other instruments and it sounds fine then your sheet is not in concert and has already been transposed.
Imagine if you just learned both instruments by their concert pitch, like for example if you had perfect pitch. It wouldn’t be that hard to think of each note of each instrument because you learned it that way. Wouldn’t it be easier to talk between saxophones or go from one to another if you’re lifting? One thing I’ve recently wondered is I have an alto but I really like a lot of tenor. For example a lot of rock stuff is for tenor. Also I really like Illinois Jacquet and that early rock sound seems to originate from him (or similar players). So how can I learn this tenor stuff using an alto? An important part of that sound is using the range of the instrument. For example playing really low notes for effect. The same effect on alto would be using the lowest notes but now trying to lift a song I’d have to transpose it. Maybe lifting it on piano first and then transposing it and learning it on alto? I use cubase. Maybe I can pitch-shift a recording? Naturally, professionals would just use a tenor.
I love your tutorials. That is the greatest example of an explanation for transposition on woodwind instruments I have ever heard.
And people think matching up USB cables and connections is tricky! Strange, isn't it, that the prevailing USB cable is now USB-C??? Something about that letter C!
But seriously, thanks for this very clear explanation of a rather confusing subject. As a 60 year old new sax player, this topic was particularly perplexing. Yet another example of "non standard" standards.
Thanks Scott very informative ! You have a way of breaking subjects much easier to comprehend.
There are C Tenor (Soprano etc) Saxophones too (F Saxophones too) which are being revived. Having saxophones in every key makes it easier to transpose on the fly to match the ranges of Singers especially on Church Gigs (thanks to extended range).
It’s so smart to Think it in the Way: three half tones down
Yeah, 3 half steps sounds way easier to figure out than a minor 3rd 😁😁
Thanks Scott. Another clearly explained musical concept. It had been a mystery until now!
I now understand what a transposing instrument is, and how to do the transposition. I've subscribed, left a thumbs up and left a comment.
(to thank you for it)
You make understanding the saxophone so easy. Thank you!
😁😁😁
Thanks Scott; really useful as ever & very well explained cheers
Thanks, it took me a couple times to get it right. This isn't the easiest thing to explain.
Thanks, that absolutely made sense!
I always think, "whatever the note preceding the instrument is, that's the note a piano has to play to produce its C."
I wonder why the C-Melody sax became obsolete after being so popular in the 1920s. No transposition necessary
I don't know. I've played a few and didn't love the sound of the range, but not sure why it just went away.
andrew oldroyd
The StockMarketCrash/Big Band Music happened so the innovations for Mouthpieces didn’t happen for the C-Mel the way they did for the ‘Big4Horns’
Technologically they could make all horns non-transposing but a lot of this stuff holds over from when they couldn't. All the music that was written for Bb, F, Eb instruments etc. helps keep it that way. Also the melody sax had a smaller bore I guess so that it wouldn't play as loud, guess some people disliked this. They wouldn't have to be made like that though. I had a Conn Melody for a min, had some cool features, rolled tone holes, tuner built into the neck. Would have loved for it to have been a tenor--or not needing a full repad even lol.
Apparently Adolphe Sax originally intended his instrument to be in C and F. At that time, he intended them to be orchestral instruments, but they didn't catch on. Then the Wall Street crash and the Depression wrecked the musical instrument market and sax manufacturers had to reduce their ranges. The beginning of the big band craze in the mid '30s made the Bb and Eb popular and marooned the C-melody sax in the music of an earlier period.
Hi Scott, awesome as always...I'm a follower from the UK.....just for your info about the "Brass" family....it's the same for fingerings on valved instruments.... soprano cornet, tenor horn, Eb Bass or tuba are all Eb transposing whereas trumpet, cornet, baritone, euphonium, Bb Bass are Bb transposing. Now trombones in are usually written in bass clef which means they are pitched in concert but in brass bands in the UK the tenor trombone is written in treble clef so becomes a Bb transposing instrument ( different slide positions....urgggh!) I'm afraid French horn is pitched in F so it's out there on its own !!!! Sorry about the length of explanation but I'm a brass player who has seen the light n left the dark side 10 years ago at the age of 40 for alto n tenor sax....hope to catch you for a Skype lesson sometime .....
This sounds like an algebra problem 😂😅🤣
It's all kind of crazy. All of this could have been corrected by Adolph Sax by saying they are all C instruments. Just have different fingering for soprano/tenor and alto/Bari sopranino bass etc... There F tubas, Bb tubas, and C tubas but they are all considered Concert pitched instruments. You did a great job explaining it that's just my pet pive that all instruments should be in C🎶😉🎵
Very helpful
Muito bom Scott 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Great lesson Scott clear and slow. Now I know it
👍👍
It’s a good explanation of the differences, but nothing about why it’s so. Why not just call the Bb on the tenor for C?
It’s super amazing!!!!!
Thank you Scott 🎷👍🏼
👍👍
Thanks
Thanks for the video..awesome video. Guys Scott is also a wonderful instructor via Skype. Learned so much with just one lesson.This is Collins by the way.
Thanks Collins!
Nice!!
Thanks for the explanation of how the transposition works. But still, 'why' were instrument made transposing in the fist place?
Besides to have the same fingerings through out an instrument family, I'm not sure.
At the most basic, there is octave transposition. Where a written note is played, but due to the size of the instrument, it's an octave higher or lower. It makes sense to standardize the transposition fingerings so that there would not have to be another clef implemented or the use of ledger lines. Early instruments didn't have complex key work so there are limitations in ease of play. Having transposing instruments meant that pieces could be played better because the instrument could play in a certain key more easily. The A-clarinet is a holdover of this. As technology improved and fingering systems, etc, certain instruments became more preferred for pitch and overall sound in their families. I've read that a clarinet in C is pretty terrible sounding as it is smaller than a B-flat clarinet; and smaller instruments tend to have more issues with tuning.
They say the C-melody sax has not nice sound. Hard to say, I never heard. But on YT are vudeos and they sounds good.
A saxophone is a transposing instrument because they were used in military marching bands like trumpets and saxhorns. This Belgian inventor invented the saxophone round 1840. By 1846 Sax had designed saxophones ranging from sopranino to subcontrabass although not all were built. Composer Hector Berlioz wrote approvingly of the new instrument in 1842 but despite his support saxophones did not become a standard part of the orchestra. Their ability to play technical passages easily like woodwinds yet project loudly like brass instruments led to their inclusion in military bands in France and elsewhere. His reputation helped secure him a job teaching at the Paris Conservatory in 1857.(the last part comes from Wikipedia).
Thks Scott
👍
Hi Scott
Thank you for all your videos. I play Tenor and find music, especially Indian classical all in Alto. I love to play on Tenor that classical music, I wish you post a video to easily transpose from Alto to Tenor.
Thanks again
It's one step counter clockwise on the circle of 5ths/4ths. When the alto is in A the tenor is in D. With the alto is in D the tenor is in G. When the alto is in G the tenor is in C.
There's also C & F members (etc) that are being revived.
Super style
Hey Scott,
As a beginning amateur saxophone player I benefit a lot from your videos, thank you for that!
You explain how the different saxophones transpose very clearly, which is something I came to lean recently, but you do not explain why they have to (as suggested in the video title). Although I see that the fingerings remains the same, why are none of the popular types in C, like the C melody saxophone? Is there a historical perspective to this or mainly the sound? Cheers!
(ps. I use the circle of fifths to transpose, 10 minutes on the clock for tenor and 15 for the alto, helps me to remember!)
I don't know why the C melody sax became less popular. It was way before my time. I've played a few and the range feels really strange, but that could just be because I'm so use to the other main 4 saxes. There isn't a real concrete reason that I could find about why instruments transpose outside of the fingerings, but the fingerings are a really important aspect. Could you imagine playing a tenor sax and alto sax and have to learn different fingerings for the same written note? I tend to focus more on the "how do you transpose" side than the "why do you transpose" side.
If you playing tenor sax the chords on sheet music is for piano or tenor sax? Do have to transpose the chords or just improvise on the sheet music?
nice explanation - thanks. I suppose you didn't quite cover why on earth it's not convention to refer to saxophone notes by their concert pitch though.
This gives me a headache. I've for over 20 years. I threw the sheet music away. I went straight to the piano and hit the C note and found the fingering to match that note and that was C to me. I did the rest of the notes the same way. I didn't learn the standard way. So when the piano or guitar player is in the key of G. I think in the same way. I'm in the same key by how I learned it.
Actually if you want to be perfectly correct about saxophones transpositions, and consider also the specific register, it's even more complicated: The soprano is a whole step up from the piano, the alto is a major sixth up, the tenor is a major 9th up, and the bari is an octave plus major 6th up!
I know this information isn't that usefull for most people, but if you are working on some composition or arrangment that takes care of specific pitches and specific registers- this is important to know.
Thank you! I was looking for this comment, as the video is not completely accurate.
Totally off subject. One of the (many) big mistakes I've made in life was getting rid of my SEVENTY-THREE! That one behind you looks like mine I bought in '74. I WANT IT BACK!!! (haha!)
Hey Scott, i just bought my alto and start to play :) I have a little question when it comes to solo - just for understanding :=) not at that level yet
From my guitar i know i can solo with a GMaj pentatonic to a Backing Track in the Key of GMaj.
So on my alto i have to use the EMaj Pentatonic to be in tune with the same backing track, right?
Yes. We are 3 half steps down from the concert pitch
Now check out these magical tricks! Every baritone saxophonist knows that he can play a bass clef part... tuba, trombone, euphonium, by pretending the sheet music has a treble clef, and adding three sharps or subtracting three flats. And in general, flats become naturals, naturals become sharps. Similarly, a tenor saxophonist can read a tenor clef part, again, pretending it is a treble clef, and adding TWO sharps, subtracting TWO flats, etc. As far as C and F saxes, it is not just the pitch, they have a different timbre. The C Melody has a timbre somewhat between that of tenor and alto. It is lighter, not as full bodied as tenor. Likewise, the F Mezzo Soprano has a timbre between that of alto and soprano sax. Interestingly, the first saxophone A. Sax built was actually a C bass sax. Next came a C soprano. The C and F instruments were going to be intended for use in orchestra.
I comprehend what you’re saying however I couldn’t possibly think of that at the same time I’m playing. And I’m not sure what is meant by the major and or minor up and downs. Does it mean you’re looking at a major scale and going down 3 1/2 steps or a minor scale and going up a whole step.?
To transpose when you sight read takes A LOT of practice, but knowing the transposition for tracks and piano players is pretty easy. For alto just think 3 half steps down from the concert (piano) pitch. For tenor just think one whole step up for the concert pitch.
Scott, why is it down a MINOR 3rd or up a MAJOR 6th? Major or minor how do you know what is major and what is minor?
Down a minor 3rd and up a major 6th end up on the same note. It's two ways of getting to the same place. The easiest way for you to think about it if you don't understand the theory is DOWN 3 HALF STEPS.
Do you get the popping noise from your keys in the Mic recording?
Sometimes, usually my sound is louder than the keys so you can't hear it unless I'm playing really soft
@@ScottPaddock I have a samson AWX and is designed for horns, but you can hear the keys especially when I'm not blowing into the horn
So the transposition from concert pitch to alto sax are the same notes as the relative minors would be from that note? Ex: Concert C = Alto Sax A , Concert Eb = Alto Sax C and so on?
Correct!
Thanks for everything you do 🙌🏽
Is the fingering on a C melody different?
No, the fingerings on all of the saxes are the same.
Whats that strap youre using? Is it comfortable?
I built it myself. When the pandemic is over I'm going to do a tutorial on how to make it. Yes, it's super comfortable.
👍🏼
I'm trying hard to understand this (guitar and piano player here) but all I get is that the sax players use the wrong names.
First, I didn't make it up 🤣 Music has been written this way for 100s of years. I'm just explaining why. I'm glad that they came up with it, or playing multiple saxophones would be nearly impossible.
I really like the explanation of transposition for an Alto. As a recovering Trumpet player I learned to sign transpose Bb. Add 2 sharps to the key signature and play up a whole step. Look at the music and play different notes. This is doable even when sight reading. Been there did that. I still need to think about the key signature mod needed for Eb but playing up 3 half steps is a good start.
I am betting a big reason for building Saxophones in Bb and Eb is those are the transposition of the corresponding Brass band instruments. The Sax was originally designed to sonically bridge between Woodwind and Brass Instruments in a military band context. The most common Trumpet is in Bb as is the Baritone horn which corresponds to the voicing of a Tenor Sax. The Brass Alto Horn and Alto Sax have similar voices and again are both in Eb. The Soprano Sax and Trumpet get the same parts and are both in Bb. Saved a lot of thinking for Military Bands.
Yes, C and Bb Trumpets are fingered the same.
That's some great insight. I looked all over to get at the exact reason why they were pitched in Bb and Eb and I couldn't find a definitive answer anywhere.
why not C and F ?..
Fortunately for the most musicians you can change your chords to your instrument on iReal
Yeah, that makes it MUCH MUCH MUCH easier.
Hence the invention of the C Melody Sax. Wish I had one. Not that I need one.
Have you ever played one? I'm not a fan of the sound. I think that's why the other 4 are far more popular.
@@ScottPaddock Do you think that's an inherent property of a saxophone in C though, or rather the design(s) of those specific horns in that era? Also they use either an alto or tenor reed (and mouthpiece, in most cases). I'd be curious to hear a modern reinterpretation of a sax in C with it's own bore design, mouthpieces and reeds.
lukasalihein go check Dave Pollack he has videos were he plays the C melody
@@Danieldiazsax Right, I've heard that; he's using a vintage (very old design) horn with an alto mouthpiece and reeds so that doesn't answer the question of how a modern design C sax with its own reeds and mpc would sound.
@@lukasalihein Bass clarinet reeds work well with old C-mel mouthpieces.
I am not a sax player. isn't that this transposition is just a technical illusion? Can I learn the fingering using their concert keys?
If you want to call all of the notes/keys/scales by their incorrect names and not be able to switch between alto and tenor, you could technically do that, but it would make your life a lot easier if you used the transposing instrument notation. For example a high G on the clarinet, flute, alto sax, tenor sax, bari sax, and C melody sax all have the same fingering, and look the same on the music staff. If you did not use transposing instrument notation, you would have 4-5 different fingerings that were on bass clef, alto clef & treble clef. It would be EXTREMELY difficult to read music and learn all of the different fingerings.
@@ScottPaddock Noted on that. So there is a fingering that binds with the scale.
I don't get why you don't just call the note what it actually is on the piano. Is it just to learn a more uniform fingering faster? So the fingerings is referred to as the same note across instruments?
Yeah, if we called it the name of the piano note then the fingerings for alto & tenor would be completley different. Same with all of the brass instruments, it's a very confusing system that actually works well 😁
"Written C sounds the Key"
Play a C on the page on a Bb horn & a Bb shows on the tuner.
Play a C on the page on an Eb horn & an Eb pops out.
Play a C on the page on an F horn & an F sounds.
Play s C on the page on a G horn...etc.
I was only saying the other day why do we have to transpose. Why for example when we first learn to play don't we finger a A but call it c then we wouldn't have to transpose. I completely didn't think about tenor etc having to learn completely new fingerings for them. How dumb am I. Lol. Xxx xxx
There are a lot of moving parts! 😁
There are C Saxophones too & they're becoming way more popular these days
True, and true. I don't know why they never took off.
@@ScottPaddock Now they finally are because having saxophones in all 12 keys & every octave makes it easier to transpose in order to fit the ranges of vocalists. It doesn't hurt to have these different sounds from different sizes of saxophones in all keys & octaves that can blend in to create a really special.
They were extremely popular in the 1920s. It allowed people to easily read vocal music and play it on saxophone without transposing. I heard that Conn sold almost as many C melody saxes back then as they did altos.
@@camthesaxman3387 They're becoming more popular these days.
I want to learn the saxophone but now I’m confused and upset. If it’s an Eb then why can’t we call it an Eb?? Why does it have to be called a C when it’s actually not? If it’s a C then why are we calling it an A???
I didn't make the rules. 😂😅🤣 It is a bit confusing, but if on a sax we called a C a C on every instrument, then when switching between the alto and tenor sax you would read music completely different because a C would not be fingered the same on each instrument.
Haha I've played saxophone for over 20 years 😅
It's confusing!!!
?????????????😮😮😮😮
Scott, What is it that Im missing?
For Key Signature, lets say : P=Piano, T=Tenor , A=Alto
From P to T : P+2#=T; from P to A: P+3#=A
I also understand what you are saying:
Bb(P), B, C(T) and C(A), C#,D, Eb (P) --- Transposed notes to play.
Using same format as Key Signature
P +2# = T --> matches Key Signature - Tenor is 2 seminotes above Piano
A + 3# = P or P - 3# = A - Alto is 3 seminotes below Piano -- But it does not match Key Signature
Why is that?
Thank you in advance for any input.
I don't play Brass he says with absolutely nothing but brass instruments in the camera frame
😂🤣😂 Hey James, the sax is made of brass, but considered a woodwind instrument because it makes sound with a vibrating reed. "Brass" instruments (like a trumpet & trombone) make a sound by buzzing into the mouthpiece. Also, sax is often called part of the "brass section" in a horn band (like Tower of Power or Earth Wind & Fire) but we're really woodwind players in disquise 🥸
If they'd only had a capo for the sax
😂🤣🤣 Life would be soooooo much easier!
@@ScottPaddock u r the man !
Ok, now I have a headache!!! 🤣🤣🤣
I think I Real Pro will transpose for you.
Yes it does.
I don’t transpose. I’m playing the tenor in a small band. I have never seen a tenor sheet. We are all playing with a sheet in concert key. Nobody cares about what it is “for me”, neither do I. Why not just call the D on the tenor for C.
Hans Thjomoe if you’re all Tenor players in your band with no other instruments that’s fine to play with a sheet in concert. if you’re playing with other instruments like alto sax or piano/guitar it’s going to sound horrendous. If you are playing with other instruments and it sounds fine then your sheet is not in concert and has already been transposed.
Why not call Bb on the tenor for C?
Imagine if you just learned both instruments by their concert pitch, like for example if you had perfect pitch. It wouldn’t be that hard to think of each note of each instrument because you learned it that way.
Wouldn’t it be easier to talk between saxophones or go from one to another if you’re lifting?
One thing I’ve recently wondered is I have an alto but I really like a lot of tenor. For example a lot of rock stuff is for tenor. Also I really like Illinois Jacquet and that early rock sound seems to originate from him (or similar players). So how can I learn this tenor stuff using an alto?
An important part of that sound is using the range of the instrument. For example playing really low notes for effect. The same effect on alto would be using the lowest notes but now trying to lift a song I’d have to transpose it. Maybe lifting it on piano first and then transposing it and learning it on alto? I use cubase. Maybe I can pitch-shift a recording?
Naturally, professionals would just use a tenor.