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Saxophonist with absolute pitch here. I started on violin as a youngster and thus grew accustomed to concert pitch. When I started alto sax at age 11 I swore there was something wrong with my instrument because my C’s were coming out as Eb’s. Then someone explained transposition to me. Mild pain, but I eventually got used to it. Then, in college as a freshman, I was asked to play tenor 2 in our school’s big band. It was my first time playing a Bb sax, and it BROKE MY BRAIN! (for a while at least…) At that point my mind had been accustomed to concert pitch in most theory/writing exercises, **and had hard-coded Eb transposition to saxophone fingerings**. Even though I consciously knew that t sax was a Bb instrument… when reading / fingering a C, my brain subconsciously expected an Eb, and when Bb came out instead, the cognitive dissonance was almost too much to handle. It took me a solid 3 weeks to get over it.
I can relate. I have a hard time playing guitar music with a capo, they frequently write the frets relative to the capo (Capo at 3rd fret, therefore 3rd fret=0), and I can't get used to it. Same for people saying a different note name than the literal pitch of their voice. Always makes my brain go cross-eared.
@@EthnHayabusa that’s gotta be a pain! One would almost think it’d be better to learn/practice the music “un-capo’ed” so the chord names / fret numbers made sense, but then I could see things getting “cross-eared” again once it was finally time to put the capo back on
For me is the opposite, my first instrument was clarinet and I developed like an "instrument specific absolute pitch", meaning i hear everything transposed
@@ThomasSantosCanal1 Can you transpose on the fly while sight reading, say a flute or violin part? Is that a common ability for musicians who play transposing instruments? Thanks!
you all prolly dont give a shit but does someone know a tool to log back into an Instagram account? I was dumb forgot the account password. I love any tricks you can give me.
I was surprised that I needed to explain this to my piano teacher. I’m a sax player so it comes naturally to me. But what I couldn’t explain was why Bb seemed to have won out in history with so many instruments in that key. It seems like you could have made those instruments at bit smaller and you would be in C, saving a lot of confusion and not changing the range much.
I bet it’s a funny quirk of history. Like many things, it probably made sense at the time. For brass instruments, I think timbre might have been an issue. Bigger horns are darker sounding and smaller are brighter. And manufacturing wasn’t so hot 150 years ago so they probably defaulted to a slightly bigger horn.
When Adolph Sax invented the Saxophone he built it in two families, the Eb/Bb family for wind orchestras and marching bands and the F/C family intended for the symphony orchestra. The Eb/Bb family survived, probably because it was adopted by French military bands. The F/C family didn't survive, probably because the Saxophone didn't get a permanent seat in the symphony orchestra.
Natural horns with crooks and no valves, sound best in the keys of Eb, E and F. Higher keys place the 'diatonic' harmonics (8-12) in an uncomfortably high range. Lower keys make the sound and articulation messy, because the tubing is too long with respect to the narrow bore.
It's because back then the technology didn't allow the winds to go chromatic and beyond the natural harmonic series. Therefore there were a bunch in different keys
As a professional french horn player, transposing is a way of life. Our horn is mainly pitched in F but we are routinely required to play orchestra parts pitched in, E, E flat, D, C, A, B flat and even H (B natural).
Why not just call the key of B Maj. the key of B Maj. ?? = B C# D# E F# G# A# ...Then you only have to think of what note isn't sharp (E Nat.) H ? What for !!?? Seems archaic, stuffy, and redundant...
@@MarkInLA In Germany, B or round B is for the B-flat. Yes, it comes from old customs when most songs sung in hexachord of C, F, or G. In those system the only note altered is B with two different version, the lower B (the flat one) and the higher B. The flat one uses plain B (or round B) due to similarity to flat symbol. The higher one uses H or square B for its similarity to sharp or natural symbol.
There are some shortcuts you can take to make life easier. Reading an Eb part in treble clef is the same as reading concert pitch in bass clef, adding three sharps. Reading a Bb part in treble clef is the same as reading concert ptich in tenor clef, adding two sharps. Once you think of transposition as a game of "which clef am I reading this in?", it becomes way easier in my opinion. Especially if you're unfortunate enough to be afflicted with perfect pitch like I am.
As someone who’s played guitar his whole life and just had to move his fingers around to play any scale, and who now has started seriously practicing wind instruments, this continues to blow my tiny mind...
I have been a vocalist most of my life. The first time I became aware of transposing instruments is when I went back home for my class reunion. A former classmate, who was a composer, asked me to rehearse the instrumentalists while he ran an important errand. He gave me the sheet music to hand out to the musicians. That is when I noticed different key signatures on the score. It was quite a revelation!
I’m still a bit lost I get the transposing idea But if an instrument is playing c and is a concert pitch instrument then whatever the other instruments need to do to match that depends on their key/tuning What I don’t get is if a is 440 what freq are they playing??? Wouldn’t it be a 440 for them ?? I’m pretty confused by this and no one I know seems to be able to explain it clearly to me
It’s a weird thing. It’s tough, especially if you don’t deal with it on a regular basis. Maybe it’s helpful to think of transposing instruments like a capo on a guitar. On capo 2, you can play what feels like a C chord but D is coming out. Anyone listening hears a D chord, but the guitarist is thinking of a C chord since that’s what their fingers are playing. For some keys, that can make playing much much easier. Don’t worry too much about the details though. Horn players know what to do if you tell us it’s a Blues in C. We can adjust for ourselves. And if you’re writing music in a modern notation program, the computer just does it automatically if you tell it what instrument it’s for. Hope that helps!
Here’s the weird one to me tho They’re not actually playing a “d” Over the piano “c”since they’re transposing it to match pitch or key? I get the capo guitar thing and playing the c chord but it’s d But a c is a freq not a fingering So how can the horn play a c but it’s actually another note or feels like a note it’s not to them That seems ridiculous to me I get that they are keyed differently
Bagpiper here. I've been transposing tunes to the pipes for the last few months using software (turns out Europe's "Final Countdown" is exactly in my octave+1 range!) but this explanation helps me understand what it was I've been doing. Pipers almost never perform with music in front of them, so it's a matter of memorization anyway; I'm amazed other musicians can do this on the fly with their sheet music!
Nice!! Sight transposition can be a hard skill to build, but it’s really useful for some players. And it made me a better reader in general because music is so much easier when you don’t have to transpose.
Here's a fun one: I played the euphonium/baritone horn in HS band and for those of us who started on trumpet, our sheet music would be in b-flat in the treble clef, but for those of us who started on trombone, our sheet music was in c in the bass clef!
Yeah! That’s a common solution for beginner trumpet students who later realize they aren’t well matched to the instrument but have already invested time learning to read music and don’t want to learn a new set of fingerings.
Same! I played trombone, so when I started playing in a ska band with people who were self-taught on guitar and bass, trying to be in key with people who didn't read music was a nightmare for me.
This really helped after years of not getting it. The part I'm still struggling with is figuring out major and minor intervals and what that means as far as changing keys for transposing instruments...
Yeah, it can be challenging. I did two a couple vids about intervals. Major scales so really help memorize and understand all that stuff. My latest video is all about that. :-)
Yeah! I’ve seen those parts before but wasn’t sure who in the world used them. I can’t think of any other bass clef transposing instruments, except for bass but that’s only at the octave.
This is also in (English) brass bands. The weird thing being: tenor/alto trombones and tubas read treble in Bb, but the bass trombone reads traditionally Bass clef in C
Trombones are rarely transposed, except for old piston trombones and in brass bands. Euphonium and tuba however, are almost always transposing instruments here, so we need euphonium in treble clef Bb and tuba (or bass) in Eb or Bb depending on the instrument, in both bass and treble clef. The easy thing about it is that every brass instrument has the same fingerings, from piccolo trumpet down to tuba. Often people go larger in instrument when they get older.
As someone whose only instrumental experience has been with strings, I could never understand the whole Bb clarinet/Eb alto sax/F horn etc. thing. Thanks for at least getting me closer. (PS. I sing bass so I don't worry about the octave transpositions for tenors.)
I find this fascinating because I kind of already knew it, but I wanted to test myself. So that's what I did. In 2015, when I was in marching band in high school as a clarinetist, there was a song we played in the stands that everyone had a written part for except the flutes. The section leader pointed that out to the band director and he said "Who's willing to write the part?" So I volunteered. I basically took the clarinet part, transposed it up an octave, and made it concert pitch. Overall, it took me about 3 days to finish. To this day, the flutes still have that part.
The fact that trombone parts are mostly written in C bass clef, means that you can easily read them as treble clef for baritone sax - just remember to add 3 sharps...
As a former oboist in high school: Often flutes and oboes have similar parts, only the flutes are written an octave higher. In a perfect scenario I would've suggested taking the oboe part and using it instead of clarinet. But in a marching band situation instead of concert band, it probably doesn't make much practical difference.
Had great "fun" doing all the transpositions for brass instruments to cover them during a Christmas cantata presentation; our local ensemble had no brass players, so had to cover them as best can on an old but capable electronic organ. The organ had quite good PCM sound, so quite realistic simulation. Had to write in all the parts in Finale, then switched back to "concert pitch" to enable playback on the keyboard. But it was a great practical lesson on the array of transposing instruments.
I wish your TH-cam Channel existed way back when I was learning music theory! Transposition is my kryptonite and you packaged it so well in 7 minutes for anyone to understand!
Thanks, Josh! It’s such a weird thing, especially if you don’t play those instruments and live the life, it can be difficult to make it intuitive. Eb and F transpositions are still a bit challenging for me. But for better or for worse, I don’t also have to deal with transposing with perfect pitch. ;-) Hope to play together again soon!
I'm realizing just how much I bluffed through 10 years of woodwind performance as a youth. Older and wiser now, and I'm finally understanding the music education part.
Fun fact: the soprano, sopranino, alto and bass recorders are all transposed instruments but the tenor recorder is at concert pitch. Despite this, music for these instruments are written like they were all concert pitch instruments e.g. the soprano recorder has its lowest C an octave higher than middle C, but that C is written as middle C in its music. The alto recorder (which is in F) has its music still written in F on staff.
I started playing Euphonium in my brigade band then switched to trumpet. Reading sheet in trumpet was difficult. I mastered to read in tonic solfas and mastered all the major keys scales. So I just needed the concert pitch and I am good to go. Because I would read in the transposed key on the score and play with the fingering of the concert key.
Thank you so much ! I understood that my trumpet is lower in pitch but I could not wrap my mind around how to quickly transpose with my friend that plays guitar. and this solved that problem for me, so thanks again
I have two diatonic accordions which can naturally play the three main keys it comes with, but also two additional keys. However they’re harder to play. In my GCF accordion I can also play D and Bb, and with my FBbEb accordion I can also play the additional two keys of C & Ab. So all I have to do is switch between the two accordions. My advice for anyone trying to play diatonic accordion is don’t waste your money on a GCF accordion. Instead buy the EAD and FBbEb because you have completed the 10 keys out of the 12 as EAD can also play B & G. Once you learn where the scales on the buttons are. You don’t have to use different fingering as the button steps are the same across all diatonic accordions. The only difference is that the tone chances depending on the accordion’s key.
"Glockenspiel" is a German name, which does in fact have a meaning. Translating it literally would be "bell play", but I guess Englisch never bothered to come up with a name that doesn't require the use of another language.
Fun fact: you missed a saxophone in the family, in 2003 a new saxophone was created pitched an octave above soprano saxophone and it’s called soprillo saxophone. It’s so small, the octave vent that is normally on the neck is actually in the mouthpiece itself.
I like to think of transposing like a math proportion. I play Bb tenor sax, so when I’m comparing me to an alto I think C/G = x/F where F is just an example I’m trying to get to. So I’m looking to play the same not that altos call F on my tenor. I think, well, F is two half steps under G, so I just have to move C two half steps down and I get Bb. You can also use the circle of fifth, I usually mess up when I try that though.
Trumpets come in many keys. A written C on the page always comes out as the key of the trumpet. A Bb trumpet sees a C and a Bb comes out, an Eb trumpet sees a C and an Eb comes out. If you ever were presented with a trumpet in the key of unicorn, a written C would produce a unicorn. They’re very rare instruments but they do follow the same rules of transposition as regular horns.
through the years I've developed "relative" pitch and was asked to play my trumpet with a well-known european diva and her pianist in our church. the music for this was " let the bright Seraphim" and in the key of C. I borrowed a "C" trumpet from a friend, but had to play it mechanically, as I was struggling with the different pitch of the instrument. I only hear in Bb.
Yeah, playing different pitched trumpets is a real trip if you’re not used to it. All the notes are in the wrong place! But I find them really useful tools sometimes. Especially piccolo in A. It’s a favorite.
Thank you very much for the great explanation. I frequently paused and rewound several sections because I could not keep up with the spoken pace (English is not my first language). I would think if you slow down the speech a little bit, this would be very helpful to many people like us. Thank you sincerely.
@@jacksontrewick17 Wow. What a big difference did it make when I slowed down the video ! Thank you for your help, it was indeed very helpful and appreciated. Thanks.
English is my first language and I found the speaking pace very annoying. Like many TH-cam videos, it's artificially sped up. It resembles the "possible side effects may include" blurb at the end of drug ads, except it's through the whole damn video.
Not artificially sped up, just edited to remove superfluous pauses. The pace will never be right for everyone so I picked the style of video I wanted to make. If I went slower I’d upset a different swath of viewers who want to just get on with it! ;-)
As an oboist, the only time I had to think of transposing was when I was on English horn duty, and needed to play the correct note for tuning purposes.
Tenors are so special they get two clefs: tenor clef (the real one) and vocal tenor clef (or octave treble clef, i.e. the treble clef with the little 8 below it).
Amazing video! I'm a jazz band teacher and this is perfect, even for the little ones (Years 7-8s). I love your marbled paper background. Do you have a tuturial on how you achieved that?
I play recorder. Recorders are all C instruments even though some are based on C and some on F. Recorder players learn to finger their instruments differently if they are playing F or C instruments. If you then pick up bass recorder, you have to learn to read bass clef even though it's basically a large F recorder. In fsct the basic fingerings are the same, they just produce different notes, There are advantages and disadvantages. It would be nice if it was a transposing instrument and you simply use the same fingering all the time. On the other hand, it makes you a much more flexible reader. It seems more difficult at first but you soon get used to it.
I have been still trying to figure all of this out, especially since I have music experience, it's just frustrating with "transposing" instruments like it's harder to write music or put them all in C or if it's a Bb trumpet, put the key in Bb instead of C so it's easier to read
If you’re dealing with beginners, you probably want to choose a beginner friendly key(zero or 1-2 accidentals when transposed). Or if you’re writing something extremely technical, you might check in with the instrumentalist to make sure it’s playable, but aside from that just write what you want to write and let the program transpose it(or let the musician figure it out, were used to it).
@@BradHarrison I tend to make that same embarrassing mistake that I get so used to bass clef when I’m given B flat treble clef I think it’s bass clef! 😝😂 Oh, oh! I swear to god Brad matey! Not all of them but quite a few of the Winx Club’s songs are in E major and even though I transposed them to G flat major, I’ve learned the hard way that it may indeed be easier to just read that concert pitch key signature as it is! And yes! I admit! It proper confuses my brain reading concert treble clef instead of B flat treble clef cuz I think it’s B flat treble clef but transposing can be tedious. And yes! I still agree with what you said in this video! Transposition exists cuz it saves you time having to re-educate yourself. Somebody in a brass band plays cornet they wanna have a go at tenor horn next. The E flat treble clef saves them the hassle just getting their chops to readjust somehow! Oh yeah! The bass trombonist in a brass band ALWAYS reads bass clef because even though that trombone is just like trombones 1 and 2. Have their part written in B flat treble clef, it’ll be unnecessarily difficult because of all those bottom ledger lines.
What about recorders? Treble and Descant recorders have the same fingering but the sound you hear is different. Instead of transposing, they call the notes a different name. The descant is in C (all holes covered is lower C) but on the treble, that is called and written as F. I couldn’t play the treble at school because I found it hard to play the same fingering for different notes. Yet when I was in my twenties, I picked up the saxophone quite easily.
Excellent thank you. As a very late beginner it took me ages to realise that all Western Music is based on intervals of the chromatic scale. Therefore scales are simply a shift of the standard interval pattern. One can simply change the Key signature. The example at 4:45 can be achieved by changing the key signature from C no sharps and flats to A that is F# C# G#.
Probably just lucky. Think of all the videos you get served that aren’t eerily applicable. Those happen all the time but you don’t notice. We only notice those wild coincidences. Glad to have you here though!
Part of the whole thing about having instruments written in transpositions is that the tessitura of the working ranges lies better across the staff, whether the instrument is in treble or bass clef. One thing that they teach in the music systems in Italy is sight singing in the different clefs--treble, alto, tenor, baritone, and bass. When I was stationed in Italy in the 1980s, my landlady's son was a sax player who had studied this way when he was a kid, and he could sight-sing in any clef. It was amazing to watch. And with the different clefs, tessitura wasn't an issue. I started out on trombone at age 11 and started piano at age 14. Personally, I think every musician should be taught to read treble and bass clef. If they did this, it would eliminate the need for transpositions altogether, as well as the C clefs. Clef reading is just another skill. Trombonists, bassoonists, violists, and cellists learn to use bass, tenor, and alto clefs, so I know it's not that hard to learn--keeping it to treble and bass would really make things easy. Doing that would keep a tessitura range from the C two octaves below middle C on the piano to an F two octaves and a fourth above it. Within that span, there would only be two ledger lines to deal with on either end. The rest could be handled with either 8vb or 8va markings. Obviously, I've given this a lot of thought over the years. I'm a retired USAF piano player who was in for 27 years--played a lot of gigs and concerts and wrote a lot of music. Respectfully, PMH
I may be misunderstanding you, but I play clarinet and I don't think that learning bass clef or alto/tenor clef would solve the issue. The Bb clarinet range already fits fairly neatly on a treble staff, even at concert pitch. We are used to dealing with ledger lines anyway due to a large range. The problem is, I want to be able to go between Bb clarinet and A clarinet and Eb clarinet without changing fingerings for when I see a written note. Also in my experience, sight singing is based on intervals, not absolute pitches or fingerings, which is very different to sight reading on instruments, where I think in terms of fingerings.
@@hannahbevan809 I'll give your answer a lot more thought, but you've made a very good point that I hadn't considered--that about consistency of fingering. Yes, I agree that it would be a bit of a steep learning curve to learn all the different ones. But...it's not like you're learning 12. If I remember correctly, there are clarinets in A, Bb, C, D, and Eb--is that right? So, five versions of fingerings. The alto, bass, contra alto, and contra bass would all line up as the same as their treble clef counterparts. So, only five fingering sets. (I know...I'm being a little facetious saying that.) Some examples of other instruments that do this: alto trombone, the tubas, the horns (they transpose like mad, both at sight, and playing on the Bb side of the F horn), and piano. Piano's a funny one, because unlike the guitar where you can learn one scale pattern or chord arpeggio pattern, and apply it to all twelve keys, you have to learn twelve different fingerings for the 12 majors, and 12 for the minors. But, muscle memory being what it is, and taking a long time to build up, I can see the advantage of learning one set of fingerings rather than several. For me, it would be like playing everything in the key of C and using a transpose button on a keyboard so I wouldn't have to play in F# major or Ab minor--which are much harder to play in. Funny thing about my friend in Italy--he could not only sing in all the clefs, he could also play in all of them on his tenor, so I still think there's something to using the various clefs as a substitute. I'll give this some more thought when I have a chance and get back to the blog soon. Have a good day, and thanks for joining in the discussion.
@@peterharrison5833 I may also add that after I wrote my comment I tried imagining what the fingerings would be like on my clarinet if it were in concert pitch. I found that especially in the upper register (most commonly played), the natural notes, as in those that line up with white keys on a piano, would end up aligning with metal keywork, as opposed to open tone holes. This would not only be harder to learn, as it doesn't feel very logical to have completely different fingerings for, say C and C#; it also provides less agility of play in the most commonly played keys. Having said that, of course we still have to play these combinations of notes anyway to match the pitch of other instruments, but I suppose in solo works, it is nice to have keys like C major, F major and G major be the easiest to play.
Way back in the 1970s I played trombone in my HS band. Either I was absent on key transpose day or it didn't apply. I noticed the trombone section was absent in this video as well.
Trombone doesn’t transpose. They read notes as they sound. Tubas too. Euphonium sometimes transposes to Bb treble, sometimes concert pitch bass clef. Hope that helps!
It should be "Everything you need to know in seven minutes so you don't fail music class." Otherwise it implies I would fail music class in seven minutes. Outside of that grammar issue, this is great content!
I got a clarinet thinking "now I have a chromatic instrument, I can play anything!" then I watched this video, now I'm like "dang, having 12 pennywhistles was easier"
When you say "When C is written as written for music on clarinet, the sound will come out a b-flat." Does this mean the word "written" is in concert pitch? Or does "it is written for clarinet" mean it is already-transposed music?
That’s kind of the whole thing, isn’t it? If a clarinet plays what they define as C, it’s going to sound like a Bb as far as the piano is concerned. If they play a C from music that’s been translated for the clarinet, they think and read C but Bb comes out. If they’re looking at piano music, concert pitch, and play the C they know, it will come out as Bb(and it will sound real bad if the piano plays that C against the Bb the clarinet is playing). So the clarinet has to transpose concert music up a tone so it agrees with the piano. They would see the piano’s C and transpose it up a tone to their D so that the C comes out.
My brain hurts! I have made some effort, but all my life I've never had this skill. I'm in awe of those who can do this on the fly. And, I realized long ago I had only a smattering of talent, never really had the gift others had.
@@BradHarrison Agreed. That's basically where I'm at, it's just staggering how deep the weeds get. You get to a point where you think you understand and/or accept things as "it just is" then something else comes along and you're like, wtf, bruh.
When I was in music school, I always felt solid in the thing we learned last week, but this new thing was real tough. Every week. ;-) Even now, my theory is pretty strong but there’s just so so much. You can’t learn it all, but that’s okay. New things can still be fun and interesting and useful.
Thanks for the great video😉. I still haven’t found a good enough reason why😫 they’ve made all these instruments transposing. I’ve leaned to play saxophone(Bb and Eb) in concert pitch. There are just too many confusion and complications in my opinion. I guess if you only play what’s written on the sheet, you’ll have no problem. But Imagine playing jazz and having to transpose keys and chord changes as well😩
It makes some keys easier for some instruments and changes the accessible/desirable range. Do you change fingering when you play tenor vs alto? The whole point of transposing instruments is that a C fingering is always a C, but you can play in different keys without adjusting.
@@BradHarrison yes bud I do change my fingering from tenor to bari or alto, for instance, my C fingering on tenor (D for Bb tenor sax)would be the fingering for F on alto. Practically I think making the one small shift of changing your fingering between alto and tenor in order to play according to the sounding pitch , would have been an easier option than having to have sheet music in different keys playing the same music, constantly having to transpose when you speak to guys playing Concert pitch. I also find explaining this to students a bit overwhelming. I know it’s not impossible to do both, but the benefits in transposing doesn’t out-way the complications it creates, for me at least…. yet😀. But it’s always interesting to have this discussion. 😉
That’s not the way most saxophonists deal with things but tubas do! They change fingerings depending what instrument they’re playing(C, Bb, Eb, F). But tubas always read concert pitch bass clef. What do you do when you’re handed a piece of music transposed for alto or tenor sax? Use another set of fingerings? Or transpose the music in your head?
I honestly never realized it was that simple. I always thought transposition was wizardry that you would have to take a music theory class to understand.
Simple? You must be joking. I am familiar with the theory of keys, etc, but am not a player and gave up half way through. I still can't visualise what the score that a clarinetist plays from, for example, looks like. It was moving far too fast for me.
Most clarinets are in Bb so everything they see is written a tone higher than it sounds in concert pitch. If the piano is playing in C major, the clarinet plays everything a tone higher, which puts them in D major.
@@BradHarrison Thanks for taking the trouble to reply, but I'm afraid your reply just deepens my confusion. What does the clarinettist's score look like? If the pianist plays a C does the clarinet score say B flat and the player has to mentally 'play up a tone? Or does the score have a C on the first ledger line below and the clarinet has to work out what to play to produce a C. Does the clarinettist transpose in their head as they go along? If they do, that sounds very demanding indeed.
Happy to! Parts are usually transposed for transposing instruments, specifically so they don’t have to do it in their head. The clarinetist is looking at music they can just read as normal. If the piano is in C major, the clarinet is looking at music in the key of D. If they don’t look at each other’s music, they wouldn’t even know that transposition is a thing because it would all sound correct because the music has already been transposed. Modern notation software does this automatically. If the clarinetist is given concert pitch music(or if that looking over the pianists shoulder to play along), then yes they would have to transpose in their head. That’s a skill that advanced musicians do tend to acquire but it’s not usually a concern for beginners or even intermediate players.
It’s all part of a language! It’s definitely a bit complicated and takes a while to learn but almost everything at a high level is. There’s a difference between cooking a microwaveable product and creating a gourmet meal from scratch. You need a lot of skills and vocabulary to execute an advanced meal and hardly any to nuke some noodles. They’re both food and both might even be enjoyable. But they’re different in a variety of ways.
@@harmono8766 Is it too "complicated to weed out people"? Or is it not too complicated because "it's just scales"? I'm not sure the point you're making.
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Saxophonist with absolute pitch here. I started on violin as a youngster and thus grew accustomed to concert pitch. When I started alto sax at age 11 I swore there was something wrong with my instrument because my C’s were coming out as Eb’s. Then someone explained transposition to me. Mild pain, but I eventually got used to it.
Then, in college as a freshman, I was asked to play tenor 2 in our school’s big band. It was my first time playing a Bb sax, and it BROKE MY BRAIN! (for a while at least…) At that point my mind had been accustomed to concert pitch in most theory/writing exercises, **and had hard-coded Eb transposition to saxophone fingerings**. Even though I consciously knew that t sax was a Bb instrument… when reading / fingering a C, my brain subconsciously expected an Eb, and when Bb came out instead, the cognitive dissonance was almost too much to handle. It took me a solid 3 weeks to get over it.
I’ve heard a bunch of stories of people with perfect pitch struggling with transposing instruments! It seems like such a blessing and a curse.
I can relate. I have a hard time playing guitar music with a capo, they frequently write the frets relative to the capo (Capo at 3rd fret, therefore 3rd fret=0), and I can't get used to it. Same for people saying a different note name than the literal pitch of their voice. Always makes my brain go cross-eared.
@@EthnHayabusa that’s gotta be a pain! One would almost think it’d be better to learn/practice the music “un-capo’ed” so the chord names / fret numbers made sense, but then I could see things getting “cross-eared” again once it was finally time to put the capo back on
For me is the opposite, my first instrument was clarinet and I developed like an "instrument specific absolute pitch", meaning i hear everything transposed
@@ThomasSantosCanal1 Can you transpose on the fly while sight reading, say a flute or violin part? Is that a common ability for musicians who play transposing instruments? Thanks!
Thank you so much, nobody has ever helped me with my trumpet in 🦄. This helped me so much!
It’s an odd transposition but the principles are the same. You see a C, you get a 🦄
I looked it up, and there's actually a trumpet called the Brasspire Unicorn and it's in C! No wonder it's a unicorn!
Thank you!!! I couldn't figure out what was going on!
Life hack: have an instrument in every key so you can always play the same scale for your scale test
The Music Illuminati want to know your location.
👀
* laughs maniacally in electric keyboard *
you all prolly dont give a shit but does someone know a tool to log back into an Instagram account?
I was dumb forgot the account password. I love any tricks you can give me.
@Sergio Finley Instablaster ;)
I was surprised that I needed to explain this to my piano teacher. I’m a sax player so it comes naturally to me. But what I couldn’t explain was why Bb seemed to have won out in history with so many instruments in that key. It seems like you could have made those instruments at bit smaller and you would be in C, saving a lot of confusion and not changing the range much.
I bet it’s a funny quirk of history. Like many things, it probably made sense at the time. For brass instruments, I think timbre might have been an issue. Bigger horns are darker sounding and smaller are brighter. And manufacturing wasn’t so hot 150 years ago so they probably defaulted to a slightly bigger horn.
When Adolph Sax invented the Saxophone he built it in two families, the Eb/Bb family for wind orchestras and marching bands and the F/C family intended for the symphony orchestra.
The Eb/Bb family survived, probably because it was adopted by French military bands.
The F/C family didn't survive, probably because the Saxophone didn't get a permanent seat in the symphony orchestra.
They did make a C sax in the early 20th century. They sound pretty awful.
Natural horns with crooks and no valves, sound best in the keys of Eb, E and F. Higher keys place the 'diatonic' harmonics (8-12) in an uncomfortably high range. Lower keys make the sound and articulation messy, because the tubing is too long with respect to the narrow bore.
It's because back then the technology didn't allow the winds to go chromatic and beyond the natural harmonic series. Therefore there were a bunch in different keys
As a professional french horn player, transposing is a way of life. Our horn is mainly pitched in F but we are routinely required to play orchestra parts pitched in, E, E flat, D, C, A, B flat and even H (B natural).
H?
@@thomasthedankengine123 In Germany, a B natural is called "H."
I have never heard of H. Wow!
Why not just call the key of B Maj. the key of B Maj. ?? = B C# D# E F# G# A# ...Then you only have to think of what note isn't sharp (E Nat.) H ? What for !!?? Seems archaic, stuffy, and redundant...
@@MarkInLA In Germany, B or round B is for the B-flat. Yes, it comes from old customs when most songs sung in hexachord of C, F, or G. In those system the only note altered is B with two different version, the lower B (the flat one) and the higher B. The flat one uses plain B (or round B) due to similarity to flat symbol. The higher one uses H or square B for its similarity to sharp or natural symbol.
Thank you for including the guitar. It is so often left out of discussions of classical instruments. Maestro Segovia is smiling down on you 😇.
"Tenors like to think they're special." As a lyric baritone, that line nearly made me blow soda out of my nose.
Trumpet in Unicorn is my favourite key. Thanks for clear explanation.
There are some shortcuts you can take to make life easier. Reading an Eb part in treble clef is the same as reading concert pitch in bass clef, adding three sharps. Reading a Bb part in treble clef is the same as reading concert ptich in tenor clef, adding two sharps. Once you think of transposition as a game of "which clef am I reading this in?", it becomes way easier in my opinion. Especially if you're unfortunate enough to be afflicted with perfect pitch like I am.
I needed this, thank you. I’m also a perfect pitch person, and I hated thieve things so much
I have perfect pitch, and I can't do the transposing thing!
crikey my friend you may have saved me hours! Thanks!!
I’m a low brass player with absolute pitch learning alto sax so I just do this when reading the music cuz I’m too lazy to actually adjust 💀
@@Jayquinator-X I'm a perfect pitch person too even though I still have some problems with imagining the pitches of a unplayed written melody.
As someone who’s played guitar his whole life and just had to move his fingers around to play any scale, and who now has started seriously practicing wind instruments, this continues to blow my tiny mind...
Same.
I’m in AP theory and I’m a singer who didn’t even know that other instruments don’t play in C maj. thank u this is so helpful!
I have been a vocalist most of my life. The first time I became aware of transposing instruments is when I went back home for my class reunion. A former classmate, who was a composer, asked me to rehearse the instrumentalists while he ran an important errand. He gave me the sheet music to hand out to the musicians. That is when I noticed different key signatures on the score. It was quite a revelation!
I’m still a bit lost
I get the transposing idea
But if an instrument is playing c and is a concert pitch instrument then whatever the other instruments need to do to match that depends on their key/tuning
What I don’t get is if a is 440 what freq are they playing???
Wouldn’t it be a 440 for them ??
I’m pretty confused by this and no one I know seems to be able to explain it clearly to me
I’m a bass player in a rock band btw 🤘😝
It’s a weird thing. It’s tough, especially if you don’t deal with it on a regular basis.
Maybe it’s helpful to think of transposing instruments like a capo on a guitar. On capo 2, you can play what feels like a C chord but D is coming out. Anyone listening hears a D chord, but the guitarist is thinking of a C chord since that’s what their fingers are playing. For some keys, that can make playing much much easier.
Don’t worry too much about the details though. Horn players know what to do if you tell us it’s a Blues in C. We can adjust for ourselves. And if you’re writing music in a modern notation program, the computer just does it automatically if you tell it what instrument it’s for. Hope that helps!
Bam
Capo
🙏🙏🙏
Here’s the weird one to me tho
They’re not actually playing a “d”
Over the piano “c”since they’re transposing it to match pitch or key?
I get the capo guitar thing and playing the c chord but it’s d
But a c is a freq not a fingering
So how can the horn play a c but it’s actually another note or feels like a note it’s not to them
That seems ridiculous to me
I get that they are keyed differently
1:34 Thank you for mentioning the unicorn trumpet, this one is always forgotten! 😁
Bagpiper here.
I've been transposing tunes to the pipes for the last few months using software (turns out Europe's "Final Countdown" is exactly in my octave+1 range!) but this explanation helps me understand what it was I've been doing. Pipers almost never perform with music in front of them, so it's a matter of memorization anyway; I'm amazed other musicians can do this on the fly with their sheet music!
Nice!!
Sight transposition can be a hard skill to build, but it’s really useful for some players. And it made me a better reader in general because music is so much easier when you don’t have to transpose.
Here's a fun one: I played the euphonium/baritone horn in HS band and for those of us who started on trumpet, our sheet music would be in b-flat in the treble clef, but for those of us who started on trombone, our sheet music was in c in the bass clef!
Yeah! That’s a common solution for beginner trumpet students who later realize they aren’t well matched to the instrument but have already invested time learning to read music and don’t want to learn a new set of fingerings.
Same! I played trombone, so when I started playing in a ska band with people who were self-taught on guitar and bass, trying to be in key with people who didn't read music was a nightmare for me.
This really helped after years of not getting it. The part I'm still struggling with is figuring out major and minor intervals and what that means as far as changing keys for transposing instruments...
Yeah, it can be challenging. I did two a couple vids about intervals. Major scales so really help memorize and understand all that stuff. My latest video is all about that. :-)
For even more fun: trombone parts in France (and Belgium?) are sometimes in bass clef transposed to Bb rather than concert pitch.
Yeah! I’ve seen those parts before but wasn’t sure who in the world used them. I can’t think of any other bass clef transposing instruments, except for bass but that’s only at the octave.
This is also in (English) brass bands. The weird thing being: tenor/alto trombones and tubas read treble in Bb, but the bass trombone reads traditionally Bass clef in C
That explains why loads of my bass trombone parts from music shops in Belgium and Netherlands are bass in Bb!
Trombones are rarely transposed, except for old piston trombones and in brass bands. Euphonium and tuba however, are almost always transposing instruments here, so we need euphonium in treble clef Bb and tuba (or bass) in Eb or Bb depending on the instrument, in both bass and treble clef. The easy thing about it is that every brass instrument has the same fingerings, from piccolo trumpet down to tuba. Often people go larger in instrument when they get older.
After 40 years, I’ve finally understood this shit.
Success!!
Me too ..playing Sax with others I’ve always had to hear the key first
So cool. My brain hurts so much less now. Just play the scale of the interval difference - above or below. Sweet!
As someone whose only instrumental experience has been with strings, I could never understand the whole Bb clarinet/Eb alto sax/F horn etc. thing. Thanks for at least getting me closer. (PS. I sing bass so I don't worry about the octave transpositions for tenors.)
I find this fascinating because I kind of already knew it, but I wanted to test myself. So that's what I did. In 2015, when I was in marching band in high school as a clarinetist, there was a song we played in the stands that everyone had a written part for except the flutes. The section leader pointed that out to the band director and he said "Who's willing to write the part?" So I volunteered. I basically took the clarinet part, transposed it up an octave, and made it concert pitch. Overall, it took me about 3 days to finish. To this day, the flutes still have that part.
The fact that trombone parts are mostly written in C bass clef, means that you can easily read them as treble clef for baritone sax - just remember to add 3 sharps...
As a former oboist in high school: Often flutes and oboes have similar parts, only the flutes are written an octave higher. In a perfect scenario I would've suggested taking the oboe part and using it instead of clarinet. But in a marching band situation instead of concert band, it probably doesn't make much practical difference.
Had great "fun" doing all the transpositions for brass instruments to cover them during a Christmas cantata presentation; our local ensemble had no brass players, so had to cover them as best can on an old but capable electronic organ. The organ had quite good PCM sound, so quite realistic simulation. Had to write in all the parts in Finale, then switched back to "concert pitch" to enable playback on the keyboard. But it was a great practical lesson on the array of transposing instruments.
I wish your TH-cam Channel existed way back when I was learning music theory! Transposition is my kryptonite and you packaged it so well in 7 minutes for anyone to understand!
Thanks, Josh! It’s such a weird thing, especially if you don’t play those instruments and live the life, it can be difficult to make it intuitive. Eb and F transpositions are still a bit challenging for me. But for better or for worse, I don’t also have to deal with transposing with perfect pitch. ;-) Hope to play together again soon!
I’ve never been happier to be a piano player…
I'm realizing just how much I bluffed through 10 years of woodwind performance as a youth. Older and wiser now, and I'm finally understanding the music education part.
Truth spitting facts @ 06:02. Tenor parts in our choir always think themselves this way.
Fun fact: the soprano, sopranino, alto and bass recorders are all transposed instruments but the tenor recorder is at concert pitch.
Despite this, music for these instruments are written like they were all concert pitch instruments e.g. the soprano recorder has its lowest C an octave higher than middle C, but that C is written as middle C in its music. The alto recorder (which is in F) has its music still written in F on staff.
Thank you bro. I'm preparing for grade 6 theory but afraid to ask my doubt to my master. I'm thorough with this topic now
I had to watch three videos before I grasped the concept but you explained it perfectly. The visuals helped a lot.
This has been bothering me forever. Thanks for the video
I started playing Euphonium in my brigade band then switched to trumpet. Reading sheet in trumpet was difficult. I mastered to read in tonic solfas and mastered all the major keys scales. So I just needed the concert pitch and I am good to go. Because I would read in the transposed key on the score and play with the fingering of the concert key.
The thing with saxophones is that they alternate between Eb and Bb
Sopranino - Eb
Soprano - Bb
Alto - Eb
Tenor - Bb
Baritone - Eb
Bass - Bb
Thank you so much for this video, I have been struggling with this for a while, this made it extremely clear!
I can't tell you how long I have waited for this explanation. Well Done!
Thank god this video exists, I was really confused on why transposing instruments was a thing for so long.
Thank you so much ! I understood that my trumpet is lower in pitch but I could not wrap my mind around how to quickly transpose with my friend that plays guitar. and this solved that problem for me, so thanks again
I have two diatonic accordions which can naturally play the three main keys it comes with, but also two additional keys. However they’re harder to play. In my GCF accordion I can also play D and Bb, and with my FBbEb accordion I can also play the additional two keys of C & Ab. So all I have to do is switch between the two accordions. My advice for anyone trying to play diatonic accordion is don’t waste your money on a GCF accordion. Instead buy the EAD and FBbEb because you have completed the 10 keys out of the 12 as EAD can also play B & G. Once you learn where the scales on the buttons are. You don’t have to use different fingering as the button steps are the same across all diatonic accordions. The only difference is that the tone chances depending on the accordion’s key.
I have to say that the Trumpet in Unicorn key is the best! Great video man! Keep doing it!
Thanks! The unicorn is my favorite subtle throwaway joke.
@@BradHarrison Haha, no problems Sir! You're welcome! :)
i didn't have any seven minutes that i've learn a lot but this video. sorry for my english. thanks from Türkiye😇
"Glockenspiel" is a German name, which does in fact have a meaning. Translating it literally would be "bell play", but I guess Englisch never bothered to come up with a name that doesn't require the use of another language.
As an English speaker, it’s also fun to say! “Glockenspiel”.
"Tenors like to think they're special" As a bass singer, I agree
Fun fact: you missed a saxophone in the family, in 2003 a new saxophone was created pitched an octave above soprano saxophone and it’s called soprillo saxophone. It’s so small, the octave vent that is normally on the neck is actually in the mouthpiece itself.
Found your channel by chance and so happy about it. Great video, thanks for sharing
Trombone in Bb. Concert pitch instrument
I like to think of transposing like a math proportion. I play Bb tenor sax, so when I’m comparing me to an alto I think C/G = x/F where F is just an example I’m trying to get to. So I’m looking to play the same not that altos call F on my tenor. I think, well, F is two half steps under G, so I just have to move C two half steps down and I get Bb. You can also use the circle of fifth, I usually mess up when I try that though.
Not to brag, but I’m super comfortable transposing between concert pitch and trumpet in 🦄
What does the unicorn mean? 😅
Trumpets come in many keys. A written C on the page always comes out as the key of the trumpet. A Bb trumpet sees a C and a Bb comes out, an Eb trumpet sees a C and an Eb comes out. If you ever were presented with a trumpet in the key of unicorn, a written C would produce a unicorn. They’re very rare instruments but they do follow the same rules of transposition as regular horns.
@@BradHarrison so that's why they never got on the ark. A unicorn is a natural phenomenon during music! It all makes sense now thank you!
through the years I've developed "relative" pitch and was asked to play my trumpet with a well-known european diva and her pianist in our church. the music for this was " let the bright Seraphim" and in the key of C. I borrowed a "C" trumpet from a friend, but had to play it mechanically, as I was struggling with the different pitch of the instrument. I only hear in Bb.
Yeah, playing different pitched trumpets is a real trip if you’re not used to it. All the notes are in the wrong place! But I find them really useful tools sometimes. Especially piccolo in A. It’s a favorite.
Thank you very much for the great explanation. I frequently paused and rewound several sections because I could not keep up with the spoken pace (English is not my first language). I would think if you slow down the speech a little bit, this would be very helpful to many people like us. Thank you sincerely.
On TH-cam it is possible to adjust a setting on the video so it plays slower. This might help
@@jacksontrewick17 Wow. What a big difference did it make when I slowed down the video ! Thank you for your help, it was indeed very helpful and appreciated. Thanks.
English is my first language and I found the speaking pace very annoying. Like many TH-cam videos, it's artificially sped up. It resembles the "possible side effects may include" blurb at the end of drug ads, except it's through the whole damn video.
Not artificially sped up, just edited to remove superfluous pauses. The pace will never be right for everyone so I picked the style of video I wanted to make. If I went slower I’d upset a different swath of viewers who want to just get on with it! ;-)
Wow, this video was really helpful! I was just scrolling through a usual music theory channel I use and I found this! Subbed already :)
As an oboist, the only time I had to think of transposing was when I was on English horn duty, and needed to play the correct note for tuning purposes.
Tenors are so special they get two clefs: tenor clef (the real one) and vocal tenor clef (or octave treble clef, i.e. the treble clef with the little 8 below it).
Amazing video! I'm a jazz band teacher and this is perfect, even for the little ones (Years 7-8s). I love your marbled paper background. Do you have a tuturial on how you achieved that?
I play recorder. Recorders are all C instruments even though some are based on C and some on F. Recorder players learn to finger their instruments differently if they are playing F or C instruments. If you then pick up bass recorder, you have to learn to read bass clef even though it's basically a large F recorder. In fsct the basic fingerings are the same, they just produce different notes, There are advantages and disadvantages. It would be nice if it was a transposing instrument and you simply use the same fingering all the time. On the other hand, it makes you a much more flexible reader. It seems more difficult at first but you soon get used to it.
And when you feel you need more challenge you can start learning voice flute (tenor) in D or alto in G 😁
Brilliant video.
I have been still trying to figure all of this out, especially since I have music experience, it's just frustrating with "transposing" instruments like it's harder to write music or put them all in C or if it's a Bb trumpet, put the key in Bb instead of C so it's easier to read
If you’re dealing with beginners, you probably want to choose a beginner friendly key(zero or 1-2 accidentals when transposed). Or if you’re writing something extremely technical, you might check in with the instrumentalist to make sure it’s playable, but aside from that just write what you want to write and let the program transpose it(or let the musician figure it out, were used to it).
Hahah ”tenors like to think they are special” love that
Thank you for the excellent explanation that I needed very much.
Trombone and euphonium play both in concert and in B flat!
Yeah! In British brass band and sometimes trumpet players will convert to euph and it can be easier to transition if they keep reading the same music.
@@BradHarrison I tend to make that same embarrassing mistake that I get so used to bass clef when I’m given B flat treble clef I think it’s bass clef! 😝😂 Oh, oh! I swear to god Brad matey! Not all of them but quite a few of the Winx Club’s songs are in E major and even though I transposed them to G flat major, I’ve learned the hard way that it may indeed be easier to just read that concert pitch key signature as it is!
And yes! I admit! It proper confuses my brain reading concert treble clef instead of B flat treble clef cuz I think it’s B flat treble clef but transposing can be tedious.
And yes! I still agree with what you said in this video!
Transposition exists cuz it saves you time having to re-educate yourself.
Somebody in a brass band plays cornet they wanna have a go at tenor horn next. The E flat treble clef saves them the hassle just getting their chops to readjust somehow!
Oh yeah! The bass trombonist in a brass band ALWAYS reads bass clef because even though that trombone is just like trombones 1 and 2.
Have their part written in B flat treble clef, it’ll be unnecessarily difficult because of all those bottom ledger lines.
Brilliant explanations 💯
THANK YOU SO MUCH I WAS DYING BC I COULDNT TRANSPOSE AND NOW I GET IT 😭
What about recorders? Treble and Descant recorders have the same fingering but the sound you hear is different. Instead of transposing, they call the notes a different name. The descant is in C (all holes covered is lower C) but on the treble, that is called and written as F. I couldn’t play the treble at school because I found it hard to play the same fingering for different notes. Yet when I was in my twenties, I picked up the saxophone quite easily.
Very helpful. Thanks for posting!
Excellent thank you. As a very late beginner it took me ages to realise that all Western Music is based on intervals of the chromatic scale. Therefore scales are simply a shift of the standard interval pattern. One can simply change the Key signature. The example at 4:45 can be achieved by changing the key signature from C no sharps and flats to A that is F# C# G#.
Excellent!
Thanks very much for this
Thank you this video was so clear & helpful!
Concise!!! Thank you so much.
"because tenors like to think they're special" they do, they really do
And then there are the Horn players having to know how to transpose in EVERY pitch
Wow...I learned a lot in just 7 min....thanx!
OK, my caregiver, who plays saxophone, was telling me about this concept this morning. So, how did TH-cam know to recommend this video this evening?
Probably just lucky. Think of all the videos you get served that aren’t eerily applicable. Those happen all the time but you don’t notice. We only notice those wild coincidences. Glad to have you here though!
Part of the whole thing about having instruments written in transpositions is that the tessitura of the working ranges lies better across the staff, whether the instrument is in treble or bass clef. One thing that they teach in the music systems in Italy is sight singing in the different clefs--treble, alto, tenor, baritone, and bass. When I was stationed in Italy in the 1980s, my landlady's son was a sax player who had studied this way when he was a kid, and he could sight-sing in any clef. It was amazing to watch. And with the different clefs, tessitura wasn't an issue.
I started out on trombone at age 11 and started piano at age 14. Personally, I think every musician should be taught to read treble and bass clef. If they did this, it would eliminate the need for transpositions altogether, as well as the C clefs. Clef reading is just another skill. Trombonists, bassoonists, violists, and cellists learn to use bass, tenor, and alto clefs, so I know it's not that hard to learn--keeping it to treble and bass would really make things easy. Doing that would keep a tessitura range from the C two octaves below middle C on the piano to an F two octaves and a fourth above it. Within that span, there would only be two ledger lines to deal with on either end. The rest could be handled with either 8vb or 8va markings. Obviously, I've given this a lot of thought over the years. I'm a retired USAF piano player who was in for 27 years--played a lot of gigs and concerts and wrote a lot of music.
Respectfully,
PMH
I may be misunderstanding you, but I play clarinet and I don't think that learning bass clef or alto/tenor clef would solve the issue. The Bb clarinet range already fits fairly neatly on a treble staff, even at concert pitch. We are used to dealing with ledger lines anyway due to a large range. The problem is, I want to be able to go between Bb clarinet and A clarinet and Eb clarinet without changing fingerings for when I see a written note. Also in my experience, sight singing is based on intervals, not absolute pitches or fingerings, which is very different to sight reading on instruments, where I think in terms of fingerings.
@@hannahbevan809 I'll give your answer a lot more thought, but you've made a very good point that I hadn't considered--that about consistency of fingering. Yes, I agree that it would be a bit of a steep learning curve to learn all the different ones. But...it's not like you're learning 12. If I remember correctly, there are clarinets in A, Bb, C, D, and Eb--is that right? So, five versions of fingerings. The alto, bass, contra alto, and contra bass would all line up as the same as their treble clef counterparts. So, only five fingering sets. (I know...I'm being a little facetious saying that.) Some examples of other instruments that do this: alto trombone, the tubas, the horns (they transpose like mad, both at sight, and playing on the Bb side of the F horn), and piano. Piano's a funny one, because unlike the guitar where you can learn one scale pattern or chord arpeggio pattern, and apply it to all twelve keys, you have to learn twelve different fingerings for the 12 majors, and 12 for the minors. But, muscle memory being what it is, and taking a long time to build up, I can see the advantage of learning one set of fingerings rather than several. For me, it would be like playing everything in the key of C and using a transpose button on a keyboard so I wouldn't have to play in F# major or Ab minor--which are much harder to play in.
Funny thing about my friend in Italy--he could not only sing in all the clefs, he could also play in all of them on his tenor, so I still think there's something to using the various clefs as a substitute. I'll give this some more thought when I have a chance and get back to the blog soon. Have a good day, and thanks for joining in the discussion.
@@peterharrison5833 I may also add that after I wrote my comment I tried imagining what the fingerings would be like on my clarinet if it were in concert pitch. I found that especially in the upper register (most commonly played), the natural notes, as in those that line up with white keys on a piano, would end up aligning with metal keywork, as opposed to open tone holes. This would not only be harder to learn, as it doesn't feel very logical to have completely different fingerings for, say C and C#; it also provides less agility of play in the most commonly played keys. Having said that, of course we still have to play these combinations of notes anyway to match the pitch of other instruments, but I suppose in solo works, it is nice to have keys like C major, F major and G major be the easiest to play.
Этот канал настоящее открытие.
Всё очень понятно и доступно.
So glad you think so! Welcome!
Way back in the 1970s I played trombone in my HS band. Either I was absent on key transpose day or it didn't apply. I noticed the trombone section was absent in this video as well.
Trombone doesn’t transpose. They read notes as they sound. Tubas too. Euphonium sometimes transposes to Bb treble, sometimes concert pitch bass clef. Hope that helps!
Nice video thank you
Good Stuff!
0:54 go practice 40 hours NOW or you're gonna be a VIOLIST
Excellent explanation. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time in making this video.
Very informative
You might benefit from this idea by making in-depth videos for each specific instrument.
Helped a lot :)
It should be "Everything you need to know in seven minutes so you don't fail music class."
Otherwise it implies I would fail music class in seven minutes.
Outside of that grammar issue, this is great content!
Maybe without the commas. Thank goodness for commas! ;-)
Glad you enjoyed!
You made my symphony possible.
Great video, a bit fast to follow but still great explanation 😀
I got a clarinet thinking "now I have a chromatic instrument, I can play anything!" then I watched this video, now I'm like "dang, having 12 pennywhistles was easier"
Well explained
Thank you
When you say "When C is written as written for music on clarinet, the sound will come out a b-flat." Does this mean the word "written" is in concert pitch? Or does "it is written for clarinet" mean it is already-transposed music?
That’s kind of the whole thing, isn’t it? If a clarinet plays what they define as C, it’s going to sound like a Bb as far as the piano is concerned. If they play a C from music that’s been translated for the clarinet, they think and read C but Bb comes out. If they’re looking at piano music, concert pitch, and play the C they know, it will come out as Bb(and it will sound real bad if the piano plays that C against the Bb the clarinet is playing). So the clarinet has to transpose concert music up a tone so it agrees with the piano. They would see the piano’s C and transpose it up a tone to their D so that the C comes out.
My brain hurts! I have made some effort, but all my life I've never had this skill. I'm in awe of those who can do this on the fly. And, I realized long ago I had only a smattering of talent, never really had the gift others had.
Thanks a lot!
I have perfect pitch (concert 440Hz). It is impossible to listen to music that is either out of tune or in the wrong key
2:24 I actually felt the internal pain looking at the second one
It seems that no matter how much music theory I learn it just gets more complex and convoluted.
No doubt. There’s always another thing to learn. But you don’t have to know everything to be a good musician. Go as deep as you want/need.
@@BradHarrison Agreed. That's basically where I'm at, it's just staggering how deep the weeds get. You get to a point where you think you understand and/or accept things as "it just is" then something else comes along and you're like, wtf, bruh.
When I was in music school, I always felt solid in the thing we learned last week, but this new thing was real tough. Every week. ;-) Even now, my theory is pretty strong but there’s just so so much. You can’t learn it all, but that’s okay. New things can still be fun and interesting and useful.
@@BradHarrison Absolutely, sir. I enjoyed the video and thank you for your correspondence.
we tenors are special, sorry for posting 4 yrs late
You're right on time!
Thanks for the great video😉. I still haven’t found a good enough reason why😫 they’ve made all these instruments transposing. I’ve leaned to play saxophone(Bb and Eb) in concert pitch. There are just too many confusion and complications in my opinion. I guess if you only play what’s written on the sheet, you’ll have no problem. But Imagine playing jazz and having to transpose keys and chord changes as well😩
It makes some keys easier for some instruments and changes the accessible/desirable range. Do you change fingering when you play tenor vs alto? The whole point of transposing instruments is that a C fingering is always a C, but you can play in different keys without adjusting.
@@BradHarrison yes bud I do change my fingering from tenor to bari or alto, for instance, my C fingering on tenor (D for Bb tenor sax)would be the fingering for F on alto. Practically I think making the one small shift of changing your fingering between alto and tenor in order to play according to the sounding pitch , would have been an easier option than having to have sheet music in different keys playing the same music, constantly having to transpose when you speak to guys playing Concert pitch. I also find explaining this to students a bit overwhelming.
I know it’s not impossible to do both, but the benefits in transposing doesn’t out-way the complications it creates, for me at least…. yet😀. But it’s always interesting to have this discussion. 😉
That’s not the way most saxophonists deal with things but tubas do! They change fingerings depending what instrument they’re playing(C, Bb, Eb, F). But tubas always read concert pitch bass clef. What do you do when you’re handed a piece of music transposed for alto or tenor sax? Use another set of fingerings? Or transpose the music in your head?
Tenors are special and in short supply!
5:54 Trombones and Baritones like to think there special too playing in treble clef
I honestly never realized it was that simple. I always thought transposition was wizardry that you would have to take a music theory class to understand.
Simple? You must be joking. I am familiar with the theory of keys, etc, but am not a player and gave up half way through. I still can't visualise what the score that a clarinetist plays from, for example, looks like. It was moving far too fast for me.
Most clarinets are in Bb so everything they see is written a tone higher than it sounds in concert pitch. If the piano is playing in C major, the clarinet plays everything a tone higher, which puts them in D major.
@@BradHarrison Thanks for taking the trouble to reply, but I'm afraid your reply just deepens my confusion. What does the clarinettist's score look like? If the pianist plays a C does the clarinet score say B flat and the player has to mentally 'play up a tone? Or does the score have a C on the first ledger line below and the clarinet has to work out what to play to produce a C. Does the clarinettist transpose in their head as they go along? If they do, that sounds very demanding indeed.
Happy to!
Parts are usually transposed for transposing instruments, specifically so they don’t have to do it in their head. The clarinetist is looking at music they can just read as normal. If the piano is in C major, the clarinet is looking at music in the key of D. If they don’t look at each other’s music, they wouldn’t even know that transposition is a thing because it would all sound correct because the music has already been transposed. Modern notation software does this automatically.
If the clarinetist is given concert pitch music(or if that looking over the pianists shoulder to play along), then yes they would have to transpose in their head. That’s a skill that advanced musicians do tend to acquire but it’s not usually a concern for beginners or even intermediate players.
Sometimes I wonder if they make music complicated to weed out people that are not so well educated, or studious.
It’s all part of a language! It’s definitely a bit complicated and takes a while to learn but almost everything at a high level is. There’s a difference between cooking a microwaveable product and creating a gourmet meal from scratch. You need a lot of skills and vocabulary to execute an advanced meal and hardly any to nuke some noodles. They’re both food and both might even be enjoyable. But they’re different in a variety of ways.
i ask that for myself... makes me angry. so unnessesary. they could just write the "sounding pitch" note and change the fingering.
@@BradHarrison it's not high level it's basically just scales.
@@nicomelgares Jamie Glaser of Jean Luc Ponty said that they are making it way to complicated, and demonstrated on a video.
@@harmono8766 Is it too "complicated to weed out people"? Or is it not too complicated because "it's just scales"? I'm not sure the point you're making.
Good brother