More likely they have a contract for 2 seasons and that's dumped so much money into the project that they can't just abandon it. I would be surprised if this got a season 3. Literally no one liked the first season lol.
@@adrianmizen5070 surprised they didn't since he refers to himself as "eldest." So they easily could have made him some kind of native looking person so he could throw barbs about stolen land and so on. Honestly wouldn't put it past them to throw that in anyway.
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. None has ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the Master: His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster.
New Tom Bombadil is a surly bastard, mud brown his outfit is, and his boots to match it. None has ever liked his fit, but Tom will wear it still; he's So depressed Goldberry left, and she took the fucking lilies
Tom Bombadil existed before Lord of the Rings, and people forget that LotR was originally written to be more like The Hobbit in tone, but his kids grew up, WW2 happened, and the real world becoming a darker place matched LotR. Tom was not an accident, and he's even referenced at the end of The Return of the King, where Gandalf makes it a point to visit him before returning back to The Undying Lands, and spends about a year there if I recall correctly. Tolkien was a very, VERY devout Catholic, and when declaring who he is, his wife says "He is", and Tom says similarly. It's similar to God declaring His name to Moses, "I Am That I Am". While I don't necessarily believe Tom is Eru Iluvatar in the flesh, he is "the oldest" of all living lifeforms on Middle Earth (older than the Elves and Ents), and it makes sense that Tom is some aspect of Iluvitar's personality, especially given the fact how important it was to Gandalf the White to spend time with him shortly before leaving Middle Earth, and the fact thinking about Tom always gave Frodo strength on his journey.
I always saw Bombadil as the antithesis of the Dark Spider Ungoliant. Almost like they complement each other with how one represents light while the other dark.
Yeah, all that might sound good in theory, however, all that is the reason why they should NOT put it in the show, because Tom relinquish all his agency over the world. Tom Bombadil does not have a character arch, he is neither a mentor or an enemy, he only helps Frodo out of random chance. And the fact that Gandalf decided to talk to him at the end of "The Return of the King" doesn't makes him Eru, or the spirit of nature (which already is Yavanna) or whatever crazy theory you might have. So there is no way they put this character in the show and don't destroy it.
Imo, I don't think Tom is something that should be explained at all, at least not within the story's reality or lore. What makes him interesting is what he represents in relation to the rest of the story. How total innocence and freedom from ambition and corruption can only ever be an interlude, and relinquishing all responsibility to the world is not what will stop imminent threats from consuming everything. Over-explaining that he's the Antithesis of Ungoliant or an extra-special Maiar or the aspect of Illuvitar himself is just extra noise.
@@DamienDarkside Unlike them I've actually read the book a few times and have gotten lost watching TH-cam lore videos and reading the Middle Earth wiki. Some things with Elves RoP actually do get semi-correct, such as Galadriel being CAPABLE of swimming across the ocean as elves don't get tired the same way as humans (capable, just very unlikely), but black elves should be impossible due to elves being unaffected by the sun and weather in general. Black half-elf from the east. Possible, though unlikely.
My favourite part was when Galadriel reveals to Elrond, "Sauron was in Cirith Ungol with my mom when she was researching Ungoliant right before She died!"
I drove my tractor through your haystack last night....I threw my pitchfork at your dog to keep quiet....etc...ahhh the good ol Wurzels. A classic. Unlike this series. Tom Bombadil is an annoying idiot in the book. He does save the Hobbits but that is about it. I read his section once when I first read the books, Each time I have re read them I miss all his stuff out and skip on to them coming off the downs near Bree.
He’s not a waste of time, he’s simply a draught of joy for the audience before the bleakness ahead, but unfortunately he’s being brought to life in the most joyless show ever created.
@@AJ-xv7oh And tens of millions more readers did not put the book down because they enjoyed these chapters, which is why LOTR became the most successful fantasy series in existence. But surely you know better than Tolkien how to write a book.
@@AJ-xv7oh Actually he is important. He helps the hobbits when they're captured by the barrow wights, which would've been a cool sequence to see on film. During their exploration of the barrow they get their swords, which are ancient magical weapons and explain why Merry was able to hurt the Witch King in book 3.
@@AJ-xv7ohBombadil was awesome. Listened to the book for the first time this week, Andy Serkis singing the lines was wonderful. I understand why he wasn't in the films, but he's one of my favourite parts.
An entire season of a bouncing ball Bombadil singalong would be both closer to Tolkien and more enjoyable than whatever this crap will actually end up being.
Drinker, while this was a funny exchange, and i normally agree with you-- Tom is not a waste of time. In the movies, yes, he'd drag out the story and kill the pacing. But in the books, he's actually important and saves the hobbits. It was more than just him being annoying that Frodo put on the ring. While he may not have had a grand role in the world, he's still important. He adds mystery to Middle Earth and serves as a symbol of someone mysteriously incorruptible by evil. Tolkien didnt have a plan for him, but he clearly had care for the character. Not just some waste of time and space in the story
Plus he gives “character arc” to the hobbits…at the beginning they need rescuing badly; at the other end, in the Scouring of the Shire, they’re ready to take on a serious challenge themselves. The movies didn’t have time for that (and “modern audiences” might not have identified with hobbits they way Tolkien’s original readers were meant to) so it made sense to cut both ends for the film.
Do you really think they can deliver a proper Bombadil, the cheery cheeky wisepants guy? Without making him looking cringe and/or psycho? This ain't Tom, end of.
Yeah he's basically Jesus, a reminder for unwavering faith no? He performs miracles, as it appears to others, who are susceptible to the ring; it's like he doesn't even believe in the ring at all, in control and subjugation, and so he's not vulnerable to it
@@BarackObamaJedi I shouldn't think so...a Jesus figure written by a believer (like Aslan in the Narnia books) would be essential for success from the beginning of the story to the end of it. The hobbits needed Bombadil only at the beginning of the story, and "outgrew" their need for help like his by the time it was over.
🎵Hey! Come merry dol! derry dol! My darling! 🎵Light goes the weather-wind and the feathered starling. 🎵Down along under Hill, shining in the sunlight, 🎵Waiting on the doorstep for the cold starlight, 🎵There my pretty lady is, River-woman's daughter, 🎵Slender as the willow-wand, clearer than the water. 🎵Old Tom Bombadil water-lilies bringing 🎵Comes hopping home again. Can you hear him singing? 🎵Hey! Come merry dol! derry dol! and merry-o! 🎵Goldberry, Goldberry, merry yellow berry-o! 🎵Poor old Willow-man, you tuck your roots away! 🎵Tom's in a hurry now. Evening will follow day. 🎵Tom's going home again water-lilies bringing. 🎵Hey! Come derry dol! Can you hear me singing?
Tolkien stated that the reason he put Tom Bombadill in the story was for two reasons: it was a character he made up for his kids based on a doll they had, and he represents aspects of myths that are present in narratives that don't quite fit because they are remnants of older stories. It wasn't that Tolkien didn't know what to do with Bombadill; he knew actually what he wanted to do with him.
I was just talking to a friend yesterday, saying every year the hobbit gets better and better. Side note, that movie is legitimately enjoyable if you find the right fan edit (imo).
I only partially hate being that guy but some corrections are in order, even from a Drinker sub: - Isildur was never mighty enough to take down Sauron. The movie's depiction of him cutting the Ring off is misleading, as in the books, it was Gil-galad and Elendil, arguably the greatest of Elves and Men left in Middle-Earth (who fought - many other greats had already perished in Eregion or the Downfall or did not participate) who wrestled with Sauron and it was phyrric victory: both High-kings were slain and Sauron was just "defeated": Isildur cut the Ring from a Dark Lord already on the ground. - Tom Bombadil is an intentional mystery left by Tolkien, confirmed in one of his Letters. Anomalies pop up in the legendarium enough for us to know they are intentional. - Tom is mentioned briefly at the Council, and is irrelevant to the rest of the story for reasons stated there: his only interest is his own small domain, nothing else. - Tom's chapters, and well, the Old Forest and Barrow-downs as a whole, serves as the bridge between the "safe" "the Hobbit" and the darker, more sinister lands of "the Lord of the Rings": it is only at this bridge, at the Downs, where the hobbits are in their first mortal danger and they see the far-reaching fingers of the Dark Lord, both past and present. It serves as a thematic shift as well: from green, rolling hills and small woods, to bleaker plains and moors... and knives in the dark as you huddle around the fire. - Tom doesn't serve a purpose in Jackson's movie because it's an unnecessary stop: Jackson could through a visual medium display the shift easily (and truthfully, he started it much earlier) of aforementioned point, and had no need to bring up the Barrow blades later used to slay the Witch-king (as he didn't get much exposition in the movies). I know Tom isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it does us all a disservice to pretend he was cut for being "boring" or present him as a mistake by the author.
I fully agree with everything you said except the last point. I think the Barrow blades needed to be in the movies because the Witch king cannot die without Merry stabbing him with one of those blades. The movies don't establish that the Nazgul work any differently than they do in the books, so it should be impossible for Eowyn and Merry to be able to kill their leader with two normal weapons. Merry also couldn't have used the Elven dagger he got from Galadriel because she described it as a "Noldorin" blade, meaning it should glow blue when orcs are nearby, and this never happens for either Merry or Pippin in the entire trilogy. The Witch king's death is a plot hole. I understand not adapting Tom, I really do, but they needed to adapt those blades somehow, whether by getting them from Galadriel or by Aragorn at Weathertop
@@raze2798 That's a fair point. Even an offhand comment about them being forged "against the Ringwraiths" would have done. Although I think only the blades of Gondolin glowed blue, but that's a nitpick.
@@adde27 Yes, I should have clarified what I meant about the blades. Calling them "daggers of the Noldorin" would heavily imply they came from Gondolin in the First Age like Sting and Glamdring. At least that's my best guess, I guess it's possible they came from Nargothrond, but because Galadriel didn't spend much time in either kingdom, it's a bit of a toss up. To add insult to injury, I don't even remember either hobbits wearing them at all in Two Towers or Return of the King, so regardless of where these daggers came from, Merry and Pippin don't even seem to be using them much, if at all, in the movies
My take on it is that I enjoyed reading about him in the books, but it would've slowed the movie down too much. I want the story to move toward Rivendell, not go on a side quest.
Tom was originally a character he created for his daughter and put into LOTR. My personal theory is he's from the primordial light the way Ungoliant was from the darkness
I like Tom Bombadil, so my heart sank when I heard the rings of woke had gotten hold of him, however, I will agree with people on this one, he was too powerful and negated the ring so it was wise to leave him out of the theatrical versions. An old God or as Gandalf puts it a rolling stone that has stopped rolling. A force of nature and a personifiication of it, sits neatly with the theory that Goldberry was an entwife if you look at the description of her and the description treebeard gives.
It’s less deep than that. He’s literally only there for Tolkien’s kids - he has literally no other relationship to anything else in novel. It was almost Tolkien’s way of breaking the fourth wall.
@@pistonburner6448 I bet they're gonna use the orcs building over and eroding shit as a euphamism for modern day humans building and driving cars and shit
Tom's not exactly a 'didn't have a plan for the character'. He's something else. I think Tolkien described him as something that exists beyond the story. Or is nature itself that isn't worried about the wars of men but keeps on rolling. I kind of like the character - the idea that not everything needs to be part of the Ring saga etc. But he's cut for a reason - he's too powerful and too random not to have viewers scratching their heads wondering why he doesn't help more.
@@docsavage8640 Because all stories should consist of just one single plotline and everything that exists in the universe should be a tool to move that plotline along? You sound like a modern Hollywood writer. Simple, clueless and somehow convinced he knows better than Tolkien how to write a book.
@@frankvandorp2059exactly - regurgitate TH-cam critics viewpoint because he is always right- They totally missed it on this one, IDC, nobody is perfect
Virgin Tom Bombadil questioners: "Why is he in the story! It makes no sense for him to be here. How can the ring not affect him?" Chad Tom Bombadil enjoyers: "Oooold Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow; Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow!"
Not sure who these mongrels think they are to question the character of Tom Bombadil. That character is quintessential Tolkien. He embodies the innocence, incorruptibility and strength of Nature itself. His chapters may seem out of place at first, but they expand upon the lore and magical nature of Middle-Earth and help develop the Hobbit characters. These chapters were odd when I first read them as a teenager, but the older I get, the more I enjoy and appreciate their cozy atmosphere. Honestly, Book One of _Fellowship_ is probably my favorite part of LotR. I reread it at least once a year.
Tom Bombadil is one of my favorite Tolkien characters of all time. He's older than all the other Maiar, and some think he's the avatar of Eru (given his singing) but Tolkien didn't want to go down a spiritual rabbit hole with him. He's more powerful than the Barrow-Wights and evil tree spirits and pretty much fears nothing. Oh, and he's basically married to Mother Nature.
I utterly refuse to acknowledge this as a adaptation of Tolkien's work. Much in the same way I refuse to acknowledge the Disney Sequel Trilogy (or basically nearly everything else they've done with it) as a continuation of the Star Wars Saga's story following ROTJ. The only adaptations of Tolkien's books for me remain, the Peter Jackson films, the flawed but somewhat enjoyable Ralph Bakshi animated movie from the 70s, the criminally underrated 1981 BBC radio dramatisation (highly recommend checking that out if your able), and even the extremely cheesy and goofy Rankin Bass animated TV movies.
Tolkien was not stoned, he was trying to represent and personify the beauty and joy of the English countryside he loved. Especially after fighting in WWI. I agree that while it worked in the flow of the book (one last happy place before the misery), it would drag the movie down terribly to have him in it. But Aragorn just having a backpack full of +3 swords of Ringwraith slaying was absurd as well. Tom saved the hobbits from the barrow wights, which was a great scene, and they discovered all those hella powerful weapons in there.
That's pretty much it! There are different limitations on story-telling "real-estate" in movies, vs. tv shows, vs. print, and Tom Bombadil runs up against the movie limitations on things like the number of random characters that can be added into a given story. Peter Jackson worked around that limitation by off-boarding a little of the difference in tone that Tom would have added - which might well have played effectively only for a 20th-century English audience, in a 21st-century world where a larger part of the audience are probably Communist Chinese! - onto some of the characters that had already been established and would be with the audience through the trilogy: those films would transfer some of Tom Bombadil's light-hearted joy and whimsy in a darkening world, to the comic relief provided by the interactions between Legolas and Gimli, and to a lesser extent Merry and Pippin. A TV show is maybe a little freer to to something a little different for a single episode - a "bottle episode" where everything happens in one room between one or two characters, for example, or a "day in the life" episode where the main story arcs are set aside for an episode that follows some secondary characters and sees things from their point of view for a change, or a holiday-themed episode, or a Special Guest Star for one episode, or the like. About 25 or 30 years ago, you could easily have gotten away with scheduling a Tom Bombadil episode of a LotR TV show to run on Christmas, for example - similarly, its rough counterpart of a Santa Claus episode in a Narnia TV show could have worked back then (this would actually have been a thing in "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe", if you've never read/seen it, and it - arguably - works in context of the CS Lewis book in the same way that Tom Bombadil does in Tolkien's book!) The problem with "The Rings of Power" is that they MIGHT actually have it in them to make better use of Tom Bombadil than the movies could have - there's nothing technically stopping them in a TV show format! - but, I don't think we can expect much from this show: the show-runners seem to be mind-bogglingly tone-deaf on how things like this can work, and have worked in the past! It's almost as if the show-runners were not hired based on their merits, and somehow wouldn't have ever been qualified on grounds of experience, talent, or skill to run a billion-dollar TV show in any sane universe....
I did not know about Tolkien's interview on Tom Bombadil. When I first read it, it seemed like a character there to show you that not everything revolves around the Ring and a struggle for power. He has his domain, in there he is basically almighty and is just happy to be there and exist on his own terms. The Ring is just a random trinket to him. He existed long before the rings were made and will exist long after.
Tom is meant to *be a mystery*. He is an example of a question without an answer, something unique and different that just is. And yes, the Ring has no hold over Tom, but that also means that Tom largely doesn't care about the Ring -- it doesn't stay in his mind. If you gave the Ring to him, he'd soon just lose it somewhere, probably without ever realizing he lost it. Having him take it to Mount Doom would be a disaster because even if Tom made it all the way there, he would've lost the Ring somewhere along the way.
@@xitaris5981 My comments about Tom being a Mystery are from Tolkien's Letters about Tom, not my own opinion. Tom is, ultimately, the name of a doll that Tolkien bought his kids. Tolkien made up stories about the doll and then later put Tom into LotR. And, as I said, Tolkien later commented that Tom is supposed to be a Mystery and represent unknowable things. He's made other comments about Tom, but he's never provided any definite answers beyond what I've just said; none that I'm aware of, anyway.
Elrond isn't even sure if Tom could stand against the full might of Mordor, even if Sauron lacks the ring. So even if he were inclined to take the ring to Mordor, it's unclear if he could do so in secret. It could be the Glorfindel problem all over again, where sending him might attract more attention than necessary.
Tom Bombadil wasn't as much as a fundamental part of the journey, but he was the whimsy present in the world. He is the Fey. The continuation of the Hobbit books. I love him as a character, but you could argue cutting him from LotR was good, especially because those movies were already pretty long. I did still miss him, though.
2:20 I would respectfully disagree. Generally Tolkien didn't do stuff like that. We're talking about a man, who changed the entire lore because he "mistakenly" named two distinct elves _Glorfindel_ . Tom Bombadil is a mysterious character, but he (and his wife) are not completely random. I've read a fascinating article arguing that the old fellow is actually a Valar named Aulë, the great smith. That's one of the reasons the One Ring had no power over him - it was after all created by his mere apprentice in the craft. The reason for his presence just outside The Shire is also in line with what we know about the character of Aulë. He was curious about all creation and Hobbits were fascinating enough of a subject. Gandalf and Elrond knew of Tom and knew _him_ as well. So. Tom Bombadil in a Rings of Power episode is just... stupid.
It is infuriating listening to these guys opine about something they have never read, or half-remember reading. The idea brought up at the council wasn't to have Tom bring the ring to Mt Doom, it was to give it to him for safekeeping in his domain forever, since it was thought that he was so powerful in his own land, that even Sauron himself could not take it from him. Gandalf talking about the problem of Tom throwing the ring away was not some plot-coverup. It was fundamental to the nature of Bombadil, that while a good being in general, he didn't care about or even understand things that were happening outside his domain, so he wouldn't realize how important it was to keep the ring from being taken. I don't know which letter by Tolkien TCD is referring to, but in the one that is cited in his wiki article, Tolkien says that Bombadil was representing the kind of pacifist isolationist idea that if you just take care of things in your life and local area, and not concern yourself with what goes on in the wider world, that the bad things happening there will have no effect on you.
One theory I really liked is that Tom is a living personification of the original song that resulted into the creation of Arda as it was meant to be, without Melkors influence and attempt to dominate the song.
@@adrianmizen5070 Agreed. I really like the Drinker, but when hes wrong about something, hes wrong, and its usually because of ignorance rather than malice. In this case he didnt do his research.
@@adrianmizen5070 I have to admit I was a bit disappointed by the panel on this one. I agree that his insertion into RoP is awful but his character being the "dregs" of LotR lore is silly considering the immense power that Bombadil welded. I always took him to be the representative of the ultimate power of nature itself. I can certainly understand why Tolkien wasn't sure what to do with him; Bombadil is a Superman problem, a character so powerful that he destroys any drama. He can't be corrupted or even affected by the Ring, Sauron can't touch him in his domain and if he is a Valar like many have posited, you have to think of a good reason why he doesn't just finger snap Mordor out of existence.
Bombadil is the only reason the hobbits made it from Buckland to Bree. Saved them twice. How can anyone say his inclusion is irrelevant. No doubt the adaptation will be badly done but he serves a purpose in the original story. Also Frodo put on the ring to be sure Tom didnt pull a fast one on him and swap out the ring, not to escape him. Perhaps was just a lame joke but worth noting.
Yeah, the dude is an ass here. Also Tolkien was a religious Catholic so he wouldn't get "high". A bunch of nobodies making fun of Tolkien shows the level of discussions in these videos. I gave up a while ago with following Critical Drinker. I mean the guy finished all the topics a while ago. Now he is just milking the Hollywood cow like a lot of people do.
My understanding of the RoP version is they are putting him in Rhun. Which is nuts. Why would Tom Bombadil travel all the way to Rhun. The explanation the show runners give is he is there to view the devastation in the East (Rhun). But Tom never struck me as someone that would wander a couple thousand miles away from his home to see a devestated land.
They could have made the story without Tom B. and would be irrelevant in the movie. He basically could have an entire movie to himself, just Tom Bombadil except the writers today would ruin him.
Ironically Bombadil is one of the most beloved characters in the entire legendarium. He's an enigma deliberately put into the world as an enigma. As Tolkien himself said, enigma's "always exist". He simply doesn't translate to live action. Animation and art stills yes but not live action (although a part of me wished Brian Blessed was given a shot thirty years ago haha). Bombadil certainly does not belong here, in the hands of dumb and dumber.
In the early 1990's I was day dreaming of a live action Lord of the Rings, and the only actor I could imagine bringing the character of Tom Bombadil to life was Robin Williams.
Most beloved? I'm sure some folk are fond of him, but I know many who just find him an embarrassing non-sequitur. In fact, surveys attempting to find the most popular Tolkien character come up with Smaug more than they come up with Tom. Let's get realistic here.
First time ever I’ve felt like Drinker doesn’t understand the source. Bombadil was not left out of the films due to unpopularity, nor is he boring. He is an intentional anomaly designed for thought and discussion
Tom also puts the ring on when Frodo offers it to him but it doesn't affect Tom either - when Frodo later suggests to Gandalf that it be given to Tom for safe keeping, Gandalf notes that Tom would just end up forgetting about, misplacing or otherwise losing it.
I'd be interested to hear Jedi Brook's thoughts on Ghan-Buri-Ghan and the Wild Men of Druedan Forest. Another "Huh, just a waste of time that goes nowhere", or an indication of the depth of the 'you've walked into the middle of several intersecting larger stories' worldbuilding inherent in Middle-Earth?
He sounds like a typical movie fan picking up a book for the first time. "Why doesn't this thing give me instant gratification and feed me spectacular action scenes while I inhale popcorn? Why are there entire pages where nothing explodes? This is terrible!"
Tom is one of the best characters in the books. He is the absolute zen master character that is way above everything in the physical existence, or magic itself. Above good and evil.
the fun bit is that Bombadil is a proper LotR books character. i was under impression that all Amazon had was rights to apendices for the LotR, not even Silmarillion. if they use actual books material some currency must have changed hands.
Tom Bombabil makes the world seem more real. Does the whole world revolve around the ring? If the answer is yes then it really is just a story which can not be expanded.
From what I remember, Bombadil has 100% control of his patch of forest, but if he goes out of it, or maybe he can’t, he’s just a normal person. The fellowship was in huge trouble until they came across him, it was a safe haven, but they couldn’t stay. Bombadil was Tolkien’s way to write them out of trouble.
Sorry "The Critical Drinker", but I like Tom Bombadil in the novel and he was not a joke or an annoyance as you seem to think. He was interesting and mysterious and the hobbits met them as a step along their journey. 😍 However, Peter Jackson made the "good" decision not to include him in the movies.
I bet the writers of ROP comissioned one of those word charts where certain words and names appear larger or smaller depending how often they're searched for or discussed on social media. Tom Bombadil's name probably appeared large because although not very popular among tolkein fans he is mentioned often. The writers took this for popularity and wrote him into the season.
Bombadil is the most fascinating character in the books, and easily a huge fan favourite. His magic is sung magic, a very old mythic idea, and he defies modern need for powerful characters to always be combatants.
Tom Bombadil is a brilliant addition to the books. Intentionally placed and left as an absolute mystery of who and what he even was. There is no way this show could do him any justice by brining him into it. It's so completely sad they would even try this. It's unfortunate this panel doesn't see the brilliance of leaving him in the book.
Quick correction: Tom isn't not mentioned again after the hobbits leave him. He's brought up in the Council of Elrond as a possible guardian, which Gandalf immediately shoots down, pointing out that he'd be an unreliable guardian and likely to lose the ring because he wouldn't understand its importance. Gandalf visits him in Return of the King before the Scouring of the Shire. Tom's main role was in getting the hobbits their barrow-down blades, which were important as they had anti-Nazgul properties (Merry's was instrumental in helping Eowyn's victory over their leader).
I think Tom serves some kind of "meta" purpose, since Tolkien had the opportunity to remove him and didn't, and said later that he stood by his decision. He isn't telegenic; _The Rings of Power_ will screw him up.
Tolkien did not explain at all what Tom bombadil is or his past. Everything they do with this character will be completely made up by these inferior writers and outside of his lore.
You can tell Drinker actually knows his shit and quite likes the intrigue of the character. But the other are kind of shitting on him. I think the character was written in a different time and so the point of him in the book doesn’t translate to today because people constantly need to be served something in the story. So Tom comes along as a representation of everything that is happy and jolly in the world before the characters embark on this pretty dark journey, and people don’t like him because he doesn’t serve the wider story. He’s an excellent piece of lore and intrigue for people theorise about.
I always felt he was an elemental force of nature, him and goldberry were meant to show there is more out there that is old and powerful. I enjoyed them but they would be terrible on the screen.
I absolutely hated that Tom Bombadil wasn't in Lord of the Rings. He saved the hobbits from old man willow, showed that there were beings in middle earth that couldn't be corrupted or affected by the one ring, and it served as a personification of the isolationist perspective to war. Tom also saves the hobbits a 2nd time from the barrow wights, which also serves to equip the hobbits with their swords taken from the wight's barrow. It's a lot more believable to acquire the swords this way, than to have Aragorn walking around with an armory's worth of spare hobbit sized swords to equip all the hobbits when he should have been only expecting Frodo, and Sam.
I always liked the idea of Tom Bombadil being like a Zen Master. One with nature without a care in the world. Totally connected with everything. He is middle earth itself in a way. A truly mysterious character...
This is kind of interesting, though I'm sure the RoP writers will be unable to live up to his characterization. There is no definitive answer to what/who Bombadil is but when Tolkien used to create little stories for his kids, Tom Bombadil was one of those characters. So Bombadil is kind of a meta insert character that represents Tolkien's purest love of fantasy writing, and his purest motivation for writing itself (his kids) hence why he is immune to the corrupting power of the Ring and Sauron. That said, Rory Kinnear is a fantastic actor. One of my favourites. So I'm eager to see him bring Tom to life.
Maybe the ROP production should try competently making a single line of dialogue, action scene, or story arc before attrmpting something as complex and nuanced as Tom Bombadil.
lol no kidding. Better yet, they could just scrap the show entirely and allow somebody who has passion and a desire to do right by Tolkien. Instead, they’d rather piss on Tolkien, the fans and the franchise. I can’t stand Amazon or wokeness in general.
The reason Jackson didn't bring Tom Bombadil into the LotR certainly wasn't due the fact that the character wasn't popular. He had to cut parts of the story and the episode in the Old Forest is kind of a standalone adventure that you could leave out without compromising the rest of the story.
I guess I’m one of the few who enjoyed the Tom Bombadil stuff. As I recall, the character was based on a doll one of his kids had or something along those lines.
You aren't the only one, these guys just don't understand the character. Given Tolkein explains most of his lore to the nth degree, it’s cool to have a character with mysterious origins who doesn't fit it with our understanding of the rest of the world.
The vast majority of people enjoyed Tom Bombadil. The few who didn't are just a very loud minority, mostly people who absolutely worship Peter Jackson and will defend any changes he made, and attack Bombadil just for that reason. It's absolutely true that his character would be hard to adapt to a Hollywood movie, but that doesn't mean he therefore was misplaced in the books as well. People who claim this generally aren't book readers in the first place, they only picked up the books because they liked the movie and expected the books to be just as easily digestible as the movies.
Tom Bombadil was an important character in Tolkien's sub-created legendarium long before he wrote TLotR, and Tolkien felt he should be incorporated into the narrative. Regarding who and what Bombadil was, Tolkien left us with this; "Forn by the Dwarves, Orald by Northern Men..."
Tom Bombadil's appearance was sixty pages, most of which was rescuing the hobbits from the barrow downs and Old Man Willow. It was necessary to take this route because the main road was patrolled by Nazgul.
Tom Bombadil's chapters are enjoyable, although their main purpose in the story is just to introduce the reader to the four hobbits and have them start developing their characters. The idea that it is a "complete waste of time" is usually coming from fans of the movies who prefer the flashes and explosions of Peter Jackson over the more patient and subtle storytelling of Tolkien. Usually Americans who like LOTR as an action movie and don't have much patience for books where not every page includes a combat scene, and they have to use their own imagination instead of having entertainment spoonfed to them.
Tom Bombadil represents the man that has everything. He's got his home, he's got his wife, he's got his own little domain, and despite having some serious god level power in his own domain, he just doesn't care.
Just to be clear, Tolkien never did, and would never condone smoking pot. Despite what the movies (sometimes) implied Pipe weed was tobacco (or a stand in for it) not weed.
I think that maybe the writers will take this opportunity to explain where Tom got the feather in his cap and the bright clothing he is known for. This also explains why he isn't dressed in these iconic things earlier in the season.
I still think a proper Tom Bombadil would have fit just fine in the extended edition. Not only is he just a rockin' bro with a hot wife, he highlights the power of nature in Tolkien's world. I think Tom also gives us insight into why other types of ancient/magical beings aren't leading the charge against Sauron. Tom himself is disconnected from the threat of Sauron because Sauron's power holds no sway over him. We can surmise that Tom has seen countless conflicts play out and likely expects to see countless more, so he's simply not troubled by any particular one.
Tolkien made the Adventures of Tom Bombadil to entertain his children then he decided to drop him into LOTR. He wanted him to be a mystery but some folks think he was a manifestation of the music of the Ainur / spirit of Arda
4:03 After RoP season 2 has been released, I wonder how well this has aged. Imagine, Tom Bombadil being divorced and Goldberry hooking up with a nymph. And Bombadil having the hots for Gandalf. I can somehow see it happen...
Tom Bombadil works in the books because he seems to exist outside of the story which deepens Tolkien’s mythos. He alludes to what existed pre-Sauron (Morgoth, Eru, etc). It would have been very hard to make work in the movies.
If PJ had opted to keep Bombadil in I'm sure it would have been great and cheerful.. still the right decision to cut him. As far as the lore discourse goes, I really feel it's the same as "give the ring to the eagles" - fun for a laugh but in truth, the quest to destroy Sauron is the endeavor of Man and mortals. The end of the Third Age marks the coming of age of mortals and so it falls to them to overcome the sins of their fathers (Isildur) and earn peace in Middle-earth as their birthright. Some of the Elves, Maiar and other powerful beings were subject to the temptation of the Ring but even those who wouldn't've been were obliged to stand back and let Man take his first wobbly steps on his own. And Bombadil was so intertwined with the fabric of nature and creation that he wouldn't have given a shit anyway.
The orks didn't move in the sunlight, which is why Sauron changed the weather to enable them to move on MInas Tirith. It's the Uruk Hai who didn't mind the sun.
"You love thing, but I hate thing and I hate you for loving it, so I will not rest until you hate thing as much as I do!" - every progressive show runner
"Put Tom Bombadill in it and make him lame and gay!"
Lame and gray
He wasn't already?
@@barlotardyNo these YT brain rot guys just skimmed through the books to get to the movie parts.
@@barlotardy No. He had a wife.
Bong Thongadildo.
You ever notice how these networks renew shows that nobody likes, while canceling shows people do like?
yes there is a reason for it
More likely they have a contract for 2 seasons and that's dumped so much money into the project that they can't just abandon it. I would be surprised if this got a season 3. Literally no one liked the first season lol.
@@FLEXZILLAGAMING💯💯 A BIG REASON!
The are not in the entertainment business anymore. Propaganda and nothing else.
New behavior must be forced.
-black rock
They're not making films for the audience, they're making films for Seorge Goros.
This is not Lord of the Rings, so this is not Tom Bombadil.
BRILLIANT COMMENT
Agreed
It's Bill Domperom
its a "lord of the rings"-like product....its the velveeta of lord of the rings.
He was older than anyone, so yes it could be Bombadil.
Tom Bombadill is the most spiritual character in the LotR and there is no way that these woke ideologues will NOT screw it up.
We're lucky they didn't make him an Aborigine or something
@@adrianmizen5070 surprised they didn't since he refers to himself as "eldest." So they easily could have made him some kind of native looking person so he could throw barbs about stolen land and so on. Honestly wouldn't put it past them to throw that in anyway.
Well, they literally haven't read the books, so they couldn't possibly know anything about him beyond the internet articles they read about him.
He'll be gay and I don't mean happy.
I really like the character, I find his power intriguing (unlike the panel who hated him by the sound of it😂) but there's no way he'll be done right.
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. None has ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the Master: His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster.
Love it.
Meanwhile Amazon have depicted him in colours so dark and dull that he fades into the background
New Tom Bombadil is a surly bastard,
mud brown his outfit is, and his boots to match it.
None has ever liked his fit, but Tom will wear it still; he's
So depressed Goldberry left, and she took the fucking lilies
@@heskymarky Brilliant!🤣
@@heskymarky Ha ha ha!
Tom Bombadil existed before Lord of the Rings, and people forget that LotR was originally written to be more like The Hobbit in tone, but his kids grew up, WW2 happened, and the real world becoming a darker place matched LotR. Tom was not an accident, and he's even referenced at the end of The Return of the King, where Gandalf makes it a point to visit him before returning back to The Undying Lands, and spends about a year there if I recall correctly. Tolkien was a very, VERY devout Catholic, and when declaring who he is, his wife says "He is", and Tom says similarly. It's similar to God declaring His name to Moses, "I Am That I Am". While I don't necessarily believe Tom is Eru Iluvatar in the flesh, he is "the oldest" of all living lifeforms on Middle Earth (older than the Elves and Ents), and it makes sense that Tom is some aspect of Iluvitar's personality, especially given the fact how important it was to Gandalf the White to spend time with him shortly before leaving Middle Earth, and the fact thinking about Tom always gave Frodo strength on his journey.
I always saw Bombadil as the antithesis of the Dark Spider Ungoliant. Almost like they complement each other with how one represents light while the other dark.
Yeah, all that might sound good in theory, however, all that is the reason why they should NOT put it in the show, because Tom relinquish all his agency over the world. Tom Bombadil does not have a character arch, he is neither a mentor or an enemy, he only helps Frodo out of random chance. And the fact that Gandalf decided to talk to him at the end of "The Return of the King" doesn't makes him Eru, or the spirit of nature (which already is Yavanna) or whatever crazy theory you might have. So there is no way they put this character in the show and don't destroy it.
Imo, I don't think Tom is something that should be explained at all, at least not within the story's reality or lore. What makes him interesting is what he represents in relation to the rest of the story. How total innocence and freedom from ambition and corruption can only ever be an interlude, and relinquishing all responsibility to the world is not what will stop imminent threats from consuming everything.
Over-explaining that he's the Antithesis of Ungoliant or an extra-special Maiar or the aspect of Illuvitar himself is just extra noise.
You put more effort into thinking about this than the writers did for ROP.
@@DamienDarkside Unlike them I've actually read the book a few times and have gotten lost watching TH-cam lore videos and reading the Middle Earth wiki. Some things with Elves RoP actually do get semi-correct, such as Galadriel being CAPABLE of swimming across the ocean as elves don't get tired the same way as humans (capable, just very unlikely), but black elves should be impossible due to elves being unaffected by the sun and weather in general. Black half-elf from the east. Possible, though unlikely.
My favorite part is when Galadriel told Sauron “I guess we’re engaged because you just gave me a ring”, making Sauron cry. Truly a moment.
Making the War of the Ring a very violent argument over who's taking out the trash.
🤢🤮
Truly the moment of all time.
I'm certain they will do it now.
My favourite part was when Galadriel reveals to Elrond, "Sauron was in Cirith Ungol with my mom when she was researching Ungoliant right before She died!"
Tom Bombadil: "I've got a brand new combine 'arvester and I'll give you the key!"
Imagine it.
Merry and Pippin dancing on the tables of Medusheld in Edoras...
"I AM A CIDER DRINKER!!!"
I got 20 acres and you got 43!
A lambourghini!
I drove my tractor through your haystack last night....I threw my pitchfork at your dog to keep quiet....etc...ahhh the good ol Wurzels. A classic. Unlike this series. Tom Bombadil is an annoying idiot in the book. He does save the Hobbits but that is about it. I read his section once when I first read the books, Each time I have re read them I miss all his stuff out and skip on to them coming off the downs near Bree.
"Tom lifted the White Monster Energy drink to his lips, "aye, this 'ere John Dearie 'mower is a dang good t'ting, so is this drink, ayup"
"Old Tom Bombadil is not a merry fellow,bright blue his jacket isn't,and his boots aren't yellow"
He’s not a waste of time, he’s simply a draught of joy for the audience before the bleakness ahead, but unfortunately he’s being brought to life in the most joyless show ever created.
He's such a draught of joy that me and a whole hell of alot of other readers almost put the book down when he appeared.
@@AJ-xv7oh And tens of millions more readers did not put the book down because they enjoyed these chapters, which is why LOTR became the most successful fantasy series in existence.
But surely you know better than Tolkien how to write a book.
@@AJ-xv7oh Actually he is important. He helps the hobbits when they're captured by the barrow wights, which would've been a cool sequence to see on film. During their exploration of the barrow they get their swords, which are ancient magical weapons and explain why Merry was able to hurt the Witch King in book 3.
@@AJ-xv7ohBombadil was awesome. Listened to the book for the first time this week, Andy Serkis singing the lines was wonderful.
I understand why he wasn't in the films, but he's one of my favourite parts.
If you don't like Bombadil in the LoTRs, as these haters obviously don't, they might as well shit on Ents and everything else strange and wonderful.
An entire season of a bouncing ball Bombadil singalong would be both closer to Tolkien and more enjoyable than whatever this crap will actually end up being.
Hahaha! Right!?
better yet they could even make it a musical every episode and it would probably be canon.
@@NoahGooder I'd watch that... "Adventures of Tom Bombadil The Musical"
Like "Tom loses his hat and goes to find it."
10/10
Tolkien actually wrote two songs about him.
@@lastmanstanding5423 For those who might not know. Tolkein literally wrote a book called The Adventures of Tom Bombadil.
Tom Bombadil does serve a function to the story. He demonstrates that the ring is not all-powerful, as it doesn't affect him; there is hope.
Drinker, while this was a funny exchange, and i normally agree with you-- Tom is not a waste of time. In the movies, yes, he'd drag out the story and kill the pacing. But in the books, he's actually important and saves the hobbits. It was more than just him being annoying that Frodo put on the ring.
While he may not have had a grand role in the world, he's still important. He adds mystery to Middle Earth and serves as a symbol of someone mysteriously incorruptible by evil. Tolkien didnt have a plan for him, but he clearly had care for the character. Not just some waste of time and space in the story
Plus he gives “character arc” to the hobbits…at the beginning they need rescuing badly; at the other end, in the Scouring of the Shire, they’re ready to take on a serious challenge themselves. The movies didn’t have time for that (and “modern audiences” might not have identified with hobbits they way Tolkien’s original readers were meant to) so it made sense to cut both ends for the film.
Do you really think they can deliver a proper Bombadil, the cheery cheeky wisepants guy? Without making him looking cringe and/or psycho?
This ain't Tom, end of.
Yeah he's basically Jesus, a reminder for unwavering faith no? He performs miracles, as it appears to others, who are susceptible to the ring; it's like he doesn't even believe in the ring at all, in control and subjugation, and so he's not vulnerable to it
@@BarackObamaJedi I shouldn't think so...a Jesus figure written by a believer (like Aslan in the Narnia books) would be essential for success from the beginning of the story to the end of it. The hobbits needed Bombadil only at the beginning of the story, and "outgrew" their need for help like his by the time it was over.
🎵Hey! Come merry dol! derry dol! My darling!
🎵Light goes the weather-wind and the feathered starling.
🎵Down along under Hill, shining in the sunlight,
🎵Waiting on the doorstep for the cold starlight,
🎵There my pretty lady is, River-woman's daughter,
🎵Slender as the willow-wand, clearer than the water.
🎵Old Tom Bombadil water-lilies bringing
🎵Comes hopping home again. Can you hear him singing?
🎵Hey! Come merry dol! derry dol! and merry-o!
🎵Goldberry, Goldberry, merry yellow berry-o!
🎵Poor old Willow-man, you tuck your roots away!
🎵Tom's in a hurry now. Evening will follow day.
🎵Tom's going home again water-lilies bringing.
🎵Hey! Come derry dol! Can you hear me singing?
th-cam.com/video/2zYcxglscOM/w-d-xo.html
I wouldn’t be surprised if they confused Bombadil for Radagast the brown 😂
This makes a lot of sense.
I mean, from the stills he looks the same as the Radgast entry in the hobbit films.
Radagast already was in the Hobbit, and they watched that, given that they steal lines from these movies...
NGL, I thought Radagast was Tom in the Hobbit trailer
And then he destroyed the Death Star.
Tolkien stated that the reason he put Tom Bombadill in the story was for two reasons: it was a character he made up for his kids based on a doll they had, and he represents aspects of myths that are present in narratives that don't quite fit because they are remnants of older stories. It wasn't that Tolkien didn't know what to do with Bombadill; he knew actually what he wanted to do with him.
I was always under the impression most people loved Tom Bombadil.
They do. The few people who don't are just very loud.
They do love him. These guys in the video are being dumbasses on this one.
Unfortunately this whole vid is evidence of the word ‘tourist’ cutting both ways.
Love the Drinker but he showed a woeful ignorance to Tom
The _real_ fans do
Rings of Power:
Making the Hobbit Trilogy & Shadow of War look like Pulitzer Prize winning writing every damn day.
I was just talking to a friend yesterday, saying every year the hobbit gets better and better.
Side note, that movie is legitimately enjoyable if you find the right fan edit (imo).
I have fond memories of the hobbit as I saw them with my dad in theaters as a kid, I recognize they have flaws but I love them regardless
Shadow of War, admittedly, had confused non-canonical writing. But as gameplay goes… the “Nemesis System” was brilliant
@@Jasper_Silva The M4 Book edit proves that there is a solid The Hobbit movie hidden in the bloated trilogy.
@@Jasper_Silva Aye. The M4 book edit is almost perfect.
Tom Bombadil is no "waste of time". Everything don't have to be optimized and Tom is an encounter that bring an ambience, a mood.
Yup; I usually like Drinker's stuff but his take on Bombadil is just as shit as the showrunners'.
I only partially hate being that guy but some corrections are in order, even from a Drinker sub:
- Isildur was never mighty enough to take down Sauron. The movie's depiction of him cutting the Ring off is misleading, as in the books, it was Gil-galad and Elendil, arguably the greatest of Elves and Men left in Middle-Earth (who fought - many other greats had already perished in Eregion or the Downfall or did not participate) who wrestled with Sauron and it was phyrric victory: both High-kings were slain and Sauron was just "defeated": Isildur cut the Ring from a Dark Lord already on the ground.
- Tom Bombadil is an intentional mystery left by Tolkien, confirmed in one of his Letters. Anomalies pop up in the legendarium enough for us to know they are intentional.
- Tom is mentioned briefly at the Council, and is irrelevant to the rest of the story for reasons stated there: his only interest is his own small domain, nothing else.
- Tom's chapters, and well, the Old Forest and Barrow-downs as a whole, serves as the bridge between the "safe" "the Hobbit" and the darker, more sinister lands of "the Lord of the Rings": it is only at this bridge, at the Downs, where the hobbits are in their first mortal danger and they see the far-reaching fingers of the Dark Lord, both past and present. It serves as a thematic shift as well: from green, rolling hills and small woods, to bleaker plains and moors... and knives in the dark as you huddle around the fire.
- Tom doesn't serve a purpose in Jackson's movie because it's an unnecessary stop: Jackson could through a visual medium display the shift easily (and truthfully, he started it much earlier) of aforementioned point, and had no need to bring up the Barrow blades later used to slay the Witch-king (as he didn't get much exposition in the movies).
I know Tom isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it does us all a disservice to pretend he was cut for being "boring" or present him as a mistake by the author.
I fully agree with everything you said except the last point. I think the Barrow blades needed to be in the movies because the Witch king cannot die without Merry stabbing him with one of those blades. The movies don't establish that the Nazgul work any differently than they do in the books, so it should be impossible for Eowyn and Merry to be able to kill their leader with two normal weapons. Merry also couldn't have used the Elven dagger he got from Galadriel because she described it as a "Noldorin" blade, meaning it should glow blue when orcs are nearby, and this never happens for either Merry or Pippin in the entire trilogy. The Witch king's death is a plot hole. I understand not adapting Tom, I really do, but they needed to adapt those blades somehow, whether by getting them from Galadriel or by Aragorn at Weathertop
@@raze2798 That's a fair point. Even an offhand comment about them being forged "against the Ringwraiths" would have done.
Although I think only the blades of Gondolin glowed blue, but that's a nitpick.
@@adde27 Yes, I should have clarified what I meant about the blades. Calling them "daggers of the Noldorin" would heavily imply they came from Gondolin in the First Age like Sting and Glamdring. At least that's my best guess, I guess it's possible they came from Nargothrond, but because Galadriel didn't spend much time in either kingdom, it's a bit of a toss up. To add insult to injury, I don't even remember either hobbits wearing them at all in Two Towers or Return of the King, so regardless of where these daggers came from, Merry and Pippin don't even seem to be using them much, if at all, in the movies
My take on it is that I enjoyed reading about him in the books, but it would've slowed the movie down too much. I want the story to move toward Rivendell, not go on a side quest.
Nice points. It’s painfully obvious that this crew is not familiar with the books beyond a surface level.
Tom was originally a character he created for his daughter and put into LOTR. My personal theory is he's from the primordial light the way Ungoliant was from the darkness
I like Tom Bombadil, so my heart sank when I heard the rings of woke had gotten hold of him, however, I will agree with people on this one, he was too powerful and negated the ring so it was wise to leave him out of the theatrical versions. An old God or as Gandalf puts it a rolling stone that has stopped rolling. A force of nature and a personifiication of it, sits neatly with the theory that Goldberry was an entwife if you look at the description of her and the description treebeard gives.
Tom is a self insert, the creator (Tolkien / Eru) visiting his creation.
It’s less deep than that. He’s literally only there for Tolkien’s kids - he has literally no other relationship to anything else in novel. It was almost Tolkien’s way of breaking the fourth wall.
@@TNM001 no, Tolkien answered that when question and said he was not
@@julesknight1511 Tolkien changed his mind alot "later".
Don't even look like his description. He's not a wizard either. He's an anomaly.
They're inserting him in because they can use him as some environmentalist super-greenie icon.
@@pistonburner6448 you're almost certainly correct. I won't be watching so I will never know what he actually does in the show.
@@pistonburner6448 I bet they're gonna use the orcs building over and eroding shit as a euphamism for modern day humans building and driving cars and shit
@SeSeReRfRf orcs are capitalism, hobbits are socialists (even though Baggins were super rich but forget that)
@@samulhydenstein8208 Bilbo, the champagne socialist.
Tom's not exactly a 'didn't have a plan for the character'. He's something else. I think Tolkien described him as something that exists beyond the story. Or is nature itself that isn't worried about the wars of men but keeps on rolling.
I kind of like the character - the idea that not everything needs to be part of the Ring saga etc. But he's cut for a reason - he's too powerful and too random not to have viewers scratching their heads wondering why he doesn't help more.
Correct: an utterly useless character who serves no purpose in the story being told.
@@docsavage8640 Because all stories should consist of just one single plotline and everything that exists in the universe should be a tool to move that plotline along?
You sound like a modern Hollywood writer. Simple, clueless and somehow convinced he knows better than Tolkien how to write a book.
@@docsavage8640 No purpose for THAT story. But serves purpose for a greater story.
Plus would take too much screen time.
@@frankvandorp2059exactly
- regurgitate TH-cam critics viewpoint because he is always right-
They totally missed it on this one, IDC, nobody is perfect
Oh no, Tom Bombadil,
Tom Bombadillo!
Flee from this show
Before it’s memory-holed like Willow!
Underrated!
😅
Tom Bombadildo - for a modern audience.
Will Galadriel peg him?
@@docsavage8640 I might actually watch that. Keep me posted!
I hope they update his song too.
O Tom Bombadil, he's a merry fellow! plain grey his jacket is and his boots were slightly darker grey... 🎶
Don't assume his gender cause he's really a xe/they...
Perfect.
Virgin Tom Bombadil questioners: "Why is he in the story! It makes no sense for him to be here. How can the ring not affect him?"
Chad Tom Bombadil enjoyers: "Oooold Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow; Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow!"
Not sure who these mongrels think they are to question the character of Tom Bombadil. That character is quintessential Tolkien. He embodies the innocence, incorruptibility and strength of Nature itself. His chapters may seem out of place at first, but they expand upon the lore and magical nature of Middle-Earth and help develop the Hobbit characters.
These chapters were odd when I first read them as a teenager, but the older I get, the more I enjoy and appreciate their cozy atmosphere. Honestly, Book One of _Fellowship_ is probably my favorite part of LotR. I reread it at least once a year.
You'll never convince me that Rings of Power isn't written by AI
It's not AI. It's just shit.
Oh I'm certain its written by humans. AI would do a much better job!
@@trengilly01 no, AI can only regurgitate what humans have already made
@@Rotom0479 Umm, yes, and humans have written thousands of stories much, much better than Rings of Power for AI to steal from.
@@trengilly01 Doesn't mean the AI will be any better.
Tom Bombadil is one of my favorite Tolkien characters of all time. He's older than all the other Maiar, and some think he's the avatar of Eru (given his singing) but Tolkien didn't want to go down a spiritual rabbit hole with him. He's more powerful than the Barrow-Wights and evil tree spirits and pretty much fears nothing. Oh, and he's basically married to Mother Nature.
Rings Of Power is a show that exists and a show that I will never watch.
I do enjoy the roasting, but they won’t get a click from me.
👍
I'm watching it just to see how terrible it can get.
I utterly refuse to acknowledge this as a adaptation of Tolkien's work. Much in the same way I refuse to acknowledge the Disney Sequel Trilogy (or basically nearly everything else they've done with it) as a continuation of the Star Wars Saga's story following ROTJ. The only adaptations of Tolkien's books for me remain, the Peter Jackson films, the flawed but somewhat enjoyable Ralph Bakshi animated movie from the 70s, the criminally underrated 1981 BBC radio dramatisation (highly recommend checking that out if your able), and even the extremely cheesy and goofy Rankin Bass animated TV movies.
@@death-king1834 💯
Tolkien was not stoned, he was trying to represent and personify the beauty and joy of the English countryside he loved. Especially after fighting in WWI. I agree that while it worked in the flow of the book (one last happy place before the misery), it would drag the movie down terribly to have him in it. But Aragorn just having a backpack full of +3 swords of Ringwraith slaying was absurd as well. Tom saved the hobbits from the barrow wights, which was a great scene, and they discovered all those hella powerful weapons in there.
That's pretty much it!
There are different limitations on story-telling "real-estate" in movies, vs. tv shows, vs. print, and Tom Bombadil runs up against the movie limitations on things like the number of random characters that can be added into a given story. Peter Jackson worked around that limitation by off-boarding a little of the difference in tone that Tom would have added - which might well have played effectively only for a 20th-century English audience, in a 21st-century world where a larger part of the audience are probably Communist Chinese! - onto some of the characters that had already been established and would be with the audience through the trilogy: those films would transfer some of Tom Bombadil's light-hearted joy and whimsy in a darkening world, to the comic relief provided by the interactions between Legolas and Gimli, and to a lesser extent Merry and Pippin.
A TV show is maybe a little freer to to something a little different for a single episode - a "bottle episode" where everything happens in one room between one or two characters, for example, or a "day in the life" episode where the main story arcs are set aside for an episode that follows some secondary characters and sees things from their point of view for a change, or a holiday-themed episode, or a Special Guest Star for one episode, or the like. About 25 or 30 years ago, you could easily have gotten away with scheduling a Tom Bombadil episode of a LotR TV show to run on Christmas, for example - similarly, its rough counterpart of a Santa Claus episode in a Narnia TV show could have worked back then (this would actually have been a thing in "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe", if you've never read/seen it, and it - arguably - works in context of the CS Lewis book in the same way that Tom Bombadil does in Tolkien's book!)
The problem with "The Rings of Power" is that they MIGHT actually have it in them to make better use of Tom Bombadil than the movies could have - there's nothing technically stopping them in a TV show format! - but, I don't think we can expect much from this show: the show-runners seem to be mind-bogglingly tone-deaf on how things like this can work, and have worked in the past! It's almost as if the show-runners were not hired based on their merits, and somehow wouldn't have ever been qualified on grounds of experience, talent, or skill to run a billion-dollar TV show in any sane universe....
I did not know about Tolkien's interview on Tom Bombadil.
When I first read it, it seemed like a character there to show you that not everything revolves around the Ring and a struggle for power. He has his domain, in there he is basically almighty and is just happy to be there and exist on his own terms. The Ring is just a random trinket to him. He existed long before the rings were made and will exist long after.
Tom is meant to *be a mystery*. He is an example of a question without an answer, something unique and different that just is. And yes, the Ring has no hold over Tom, but that also means that Tom largely doesn't care about the Ring -- it doesn't stay in his mind. If you gave the Ring to him, he'd soon just lose it somewhere, probably without ever realizing he lost it. Having him take it to Mount Doom would be a disaster because even if Tom made it all the way there, he would've lost the Ring somewhere along the way.
If Tolkien admitted to not having thought deeply about the character, then do we really know what he was *supposed to be*?
@@xitaris5981 My comments about Tom being a Mystery are from Tolkien's Letters about Tom, not my own opinion. Tom is, ultimately, the name of a doll that Tolkien bought his kids. Tolkien made up stories about the doll and then later put Tom into LotR. And, as I said, Tolkien later commented that Tom is supposed to be a Mystery and represent unknowable things. He's made other comments about Tom, but he's never provided any definite answers beyond what I've just said; none that I'm aware of, anyway.
this sounds an awful lot like a quote from a certain youtube channel😉
Elrond isn't even sure if Tom could stand against the full might of Mordor, even if Sauron lacks the ring. So even if he were inclined to take the ring to Mordor, it's unclear if he could do so in secret. It could be the Glorfindel problem all over again, where sending him might attract more attention than necessary.
Tom Bombadil = Mr. Natural
Tom Bombadil wasn't as much as a fundamental part of the journey, but he was the whimsy present in the world. He is the Fey. The continuation of the Hobbit books.
I love him as a character, but you could argue cutting him from LotR was good, especially because those movies were already pretty long. I did still miss him, though.
2:20 I would respectfully disagree. Generally Tolkien didn't do stuff like that. We're talking about a man, who changed the entire lore because he "mistakenly" named two distinct elves _Glorfindel_ .
Tom Bombadil is a mysterious character, but he (and his wife) are not completely random. I've read a fascinating article arguing that the old fellow is actually a Valar named Aulë, the great smith. That's one of the reasons the One Ring had no power over him - it was after all created by his mere apprentice in the craft. The reason for his presence just outside The Shire is also in line with what we know about the character of Aulë. He was curious about all creation and Hobbits were fascinating enough of a subject. Gandalf and Elrond knew of Tom and knew _him_ as well.
So. Tom Bombadil in a Rings of Power episode is just... stupid.
It is infuriating listening to these guys opine about something they have never read, or half-remember reading. The idea brought up at the council wasn't to have Tom bring the ring to Mt Doom, it was to give it to him for safekeeping in his domain forever, since it was thought that he was so powerful in his own land, that even Sauron himself could not take it from him. Gandalf talking about the problem of Tom throwing the ring away was not some plot-coverup. It was fundamental to the nature of Bombadil, that while a good being in general, he didn't care about or even understand things that were happening outside his domain, so he wouldn't realize how important it was to keep the ring from being taken.
I don't know which letter by Tolkien TCD is referring to, but in the one that is cited in his wiki article, Tolkien says that Bombadil was representing the kind of pacifist isolationist idea that if you just take care of things in your life and local area, and not concern yourself with what goes on in the wider world, that the bad things happening there will have no effect on you.
@@adrianmizen5070It’s in letter 144 to Naomi Mitchison, I believe.
One theory I really liked is that Tom is a living personification of the original song that resulted into the creation of Arda as it was meant to be, without Melkors influence and attempt to dominate the song.
@@adrianmizen5070 Agreed. I really like the Drinker, but when hes wrong about something, hes wrong, and its usually because of ignorance rather than malice. In this case he didnt do his research.
@@adrianmizen5070 I have to admit I was a bit disappointed by the panel on this one. I agree that his insertion into RoP is awful but his character being the "dregs" of LotR lore is silly considering the immense power that Bombadil welded. I always took him to be the representative of the ultimate power of nature itself.
I can certainly understand why Tolkien wasn't sure what to do with him; Bombadil is a Superman problem, a character so powerful that he destroys any drama. He can't be corrupted or even affected by the Ring, Sauron can't touch him in his domain and if he is a Valar like many have posited, you have to think of a good reason why he doesn't just finger snap Mordor out of existence.
Bombadil is the only reason the hobbits made it from Buckland to Bree. Saved them twice. How can anyone say his inclusion is irrelevant.
No doubt the adaptation will be badly done but he serves a purpose in the original story.
Also Frodo put on the ring to be sure Tom didnt pull a fast one on him and swap out the ring, not to escape him. Perhaps was just a lame joke but worth noting.
Yeah, the dude is an ass here. Also Tolkien was a religious Catholic so he wouldn't get "high".
A bunch of nobodies making fun of Tolkien shows the level of discussions in these videos.
I gave up a while ago with following Critical Drinker. I mean the guy finished all the topics a while ago. Now he is just milking the Hollywood cow like a lot of people do.
Agreed.
No offense to these lads, but they don't know anything about the story.
My understanding of the RoP version is they are putting him in Rhun. Which is nuts. Why would Tom Bombadil travel all the way to Rhun. The explanation the show runners give is he is there to view the devastation in the East (Rhun). But Tom never struck me as someone that would wander a couple thousand miles away from his home to see a devestated land.
Add to that the Barrow-downs was where they got the blade Merry stabbed the Witch King with.
They could have made the story without Tom B. and would be irrelevant in the movie. He basically could have an entire movie to himself, just Tom Bombadil except the writers today would ruin him.
Ironically Bombadil is one of the most beloved characters in the entire legendarium. He's an enigma deliberately put into the world as an enigma. As Tolkien himself said, enigma's "always exist". He simply doesn't translate to live action. Animation and art stills yes but not live action (although a part of me wished Brian Blessed was given a shot thirty years ago haha). Bombadil certainly does not belong here, in the hands of dumb and dumber.
Rik Mayall could have played Tom
In the early 1990's I was day dreaming of a live action Lord of the Rings, and the only actor I could imagine bringing the character of Tom Bombadil to life was Robin Williams.
@@tedjustadmitit.1540 I thought that maybe Bob Hoskins could have pulled it off.
Most beloved? I'm sure some folk are fond of him, but I know many who just find him an embarrassing non-sequitur. In fact, surveys attempting to find the most popular Tolkien character come up with Smaug more than they come up with Tom. Let's get realistic here.
@@Mereologist We're talking people who KNOW Tolkiens work lol. People who have read everything. Not fly-by tourists.
You guys don’t know enough about Tolkien to understand what he was doing with Tom Bombadil.
First time ever I’ve felt like Drinker doesn’t understand the source. Bombadil was not left out of the films due to unpopularity, nor is he boring. He is an intentional anomaly designed for thought and discussion
The Drinker is accustomed to shooting large fish in a small barrel of stupidity.
Tom also puts the ring on when Frodo offers it to him but it doesn't affect Tom either - when Frodo later suggests to Gandalf that it be given to Tom for safe keeping, Gandalf notes that Tom would just end up forgetting about, misplacing or otherwise losing it.
I'd be interested to hear Jedi Brook's thoughts on Ghan-Buri-Ghan and the Wild Men of Druedan Forest. Another "Huh, just a waste of time that goes nowhere", or an indication of the depth of the 'you've walked into the middle of several intersecting larger stories' worldbuilding inherent in Middle-Earth?
He sounds like a typical movie fan picking up a book for the first time. "Why doesn't this thing give me instant gratification and feed me spectacular action scenes while I inhale popcorn? Why are there entire pages where nothing explodes? This is terrible!"
Tom Bombadil is a great character and serves many important story functions. It makes sense to leave him out of a movie though.
Exactly.
The reason why tom wasn't in the trilogy was because it would have add another hour not that he is not popular.
Tom is one of the best characters in the books.
He is the absolute zen master character that is way above everything in the physical existence, or magic itself. Above good and evil.
There is a tempest in me!😮
the fun bit is that Bombadil is a proper LotR books character. i was under impression that all Amazon had was rights to apendices for the LotR, not even Silmarillion.
if they use actual books material some currency must have changed hands.
I loved Tom Bombadil and Goldberry.
Tom bombadil is a character who was left as something not to explained , unknowable and simply there
Tom Bombabil makes the world seem more real. Does the whole world revolve around the ring? If the answer is yes then it really is just a story which can not be expanded.
Tom Bombadil is like a Fae fairytale/folklore character. They’re exist in a way that incomprehensible to everyone
From what I remember, Bombadil has 100% control of his patch of forest, but if he goes out of it, or maybe he can’t, he’s just a normal person. The fellowship was in huge trouble until they came across him, it was a safe haven, but they couldn’t stay. Bombadil was Tolkien’s way to write them out of trouble.
Sorry "The Critical Drinker", but I like Tom Bombadil in the novel and he was not a joke or an annoyance as you seem to think. He was interesting and mysterious and the hobbits met them as a step along their journey. 😍
However, Peter Jackson made the "good" decision not to include him in the movies.
Thank you! 🙏.
Yup, Drinker's take on this is uncharacteristically bad.
I bet the writers of ROP comissioned one of those word charts where certain words and names appear larger or smaller depending how often they're searched for or discussed on social media. Tom Bombadil's name probably appeared large because although not very popular among tolkein fans he is mentioned often. The writers took this for popularity and wrote him into the season.
Bombadil is the most fascinating character in the books, and easily a huge fan favourite.
His magic is sung magic, a very old mythic idea, and he defies modern need for powerful characters to always be combatants.
While I disagree with the dismissal of Bombadil’s role in the LotR books, “Frodo got so bored, he put on the Ring to try and escape” is pretty funny.
Tom Bombadil is a brilliant addition to the books. Intentionally placed and left as an absolute mystery of who and what he even was. There is no way this show could do him any justice by brining him into it. It's so completely sad they would even try this. It's unfortunate this panel doesn't see the brilliance of leaving him in the book.
If you were going to have Tom Bombadil, he should be played by somebody like Robin Williams.
I was looking for this exact comment. Robin Williams would have been perfect.
Or Ethel Merman.
Too late
Someone like him, but physically larger. In my mind, at least.
@@garanceadrosehn9691 Robin Williams bench was fictionally 285lbs(130kg). That's a pretty monster bench press. Thinking the dude was pretty jacked
Quick correction: Tom isn't not mentioned again after the hobbits leave him. He's brought up in the Council of Elrond as a possible guardian, which Gandalf immediately shoots down, pointing out that he'd be an unreliable guardian and likely to lose the ring because he wouldn't understand its importance. Gandalf visits him in Return of the King before the Scouring of the Shire. Tom's main role was in getting the hobbits their barrow-down blades, which were important as they had anti-Nazgul properties (Merry's was instrumental in helping Eowyn's victory over their leader).
I like Tom Bombadil. He's a significant part of the folklore. The chapters with Tom are very comfy.
I think Tom serves some kind of "meta" purpose, since Tolkien had the opportunity to remove him and didn't, and said later that he stood by his decision.
He isn't telegenic; _The Rings of Power_ will screw him up.
Tolkien did not explain at all what Tom bombadil is or his past. Everything they do with this character will be completely made up by these inferior writers and outside of his lore.
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow;
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
You can tell Drinker actually knows his shit and quite likes the intrigue of the character. But the other are kind of shitting on him. I think the character was written in a different time and so the point of him in the book doesn’t translate to today because people constantly need to be served something in the story. So Tom comes along as a representation of everything that is happy and jolly in the world before the characters embark on this pretty dark journey, and people don’t like him because he doesn’t serve the wider story. He’s an excellent piece of lore and intrigue for people theorise about.
Another character will fall into Shadow….they must despoil everything.
The Wig has many tendrils that it will weave itself into.
Goldberry will be an arrogant girl boss who makes Tom disappear
When I saw the casting I smiled. Such a weird casting when Brian Blessed is still alive.
I am curious to see this. But I'd rather have Blessed faaaaar removed from RoP bs
Brian Blessed is smart enough to stay far far away from this shitshow.
Brian Blessed is a good actor.
Cast Jack Black, put him in "Cat" from Red Dwarf's wardrobe and set him loose.
Jack Black wouldn't fit in Cat's wardrobe. (Weird career that guy has, being Cat and then that older cop on Death in Paradise.)
I always felt he was an elemental force of nature, him and goldberry were meant to show there is more out there that is old and powerful. I enjoyed them but they would be terrible on the screen.
I absolutely hated that Tom Bombadil wasn't in Lord of the Rings. He saved the hobbits from old man willow, showed that there were beings in middle earth that couldn't be corrupted or affected by the one ring, and it served as a personification of the isolationist perspective to war. Tom also saves the hobbits a 2nd time from the barrow wights, which also serves to equip the hobbits with their swords taken from the wight's barrow. It's a lot more believable to acquire the swords this way, than to have Aragorn walking around with an armory's worth of spare hobbit sized swords to equip all the hobbits when he should have been only expecting Frodo, and Sam.
I will not pollute my childhood memories of Tom with RoP trash.
Tom Bombadil was hilarious in the Fellowship book. Fight me.
I always liked the idea of Tom Bombadil being like a Zen Master. One with nature without a care in the world. Totally connected with everything. He is middle earth itself in a way.
A truly mysterious character...
Direct opposite. Out of touch with reality
This is kind of interesting, though I'm sure the RoP writers will be unable to live up to his characterization.
There is no definitive answer to what/who Bombadil is but when Tolkien used to create little stories for his kids, Tom Bombadil was one of those characters. So Bombadil is kind of a meta insert character that represents Tolkien's purest love of fantasy writing, and his purest motivation for writing itself (his kids) hence why he is immune to the corrupting power of the Ring and Sauron.
That said, Rory Kinnear is a fantastic actor. One of my favourites. So I'm eager to see him bring Tom to life.
And they didn't even get Brian Blessed in to play him. Madness.
Brian Blessed! That'd have been inspired casting. But he probably wouldn't touch Rings of Power with a barge pole
He was funny as Boss Nass in Phantom Menace.
Maybe the ROP production should try competently making a single line of dialogue, action scene, or story arc before attrmpting something as complex and nuanced as Tom Bombadil.
Woke pod people can't write human dialogue. They are like the machines in The Matrix who don't know what to make chicken taste like.
lol no kidding. Better yet, they could just scrap the show entirely and allow somebody who has passion and a desire to do right by Tolkien. Instead, they’d rather piss on Tolkien, the fans and the franchise. I can’t stand Amazon or wokeness in general.
@@Nightc1tyronin 👏👏
They actually cast Melissa McCarthy as Tom Bombadil for Rings of Power season 2 but she had to pull out due to scheduling conflicts.
The reason Jackson didn't bring Tom Bombadil into the LotR certainly wasn't due the fact that the character wasn't popular. He had to cut parts of the story and the episode in the Old Forest is kind of a standalone adventure that you could leave out without compromising the rest of the story.
I remember trying to watch the first episode and turning it off just a minute in. Glad I did.
I'd be willing to bet that "Not Gandalf" will get his hat from Tom this season
I always thought Tom Bombadil was the Word itself. Words can make miracles but can't defeat the evil.
I really liked the part with tom bombadil in the books. Its really playfull and bit childish, im thankful its in the books.
I guess I’m one of the few who enjoyed the Tom Bombadil stuff. As I recall, the character was based on a doll one of his kids had or something along those lines.
You aren't the only one, these guys just don't understand the character. Given Tolkein explains most of his lore to the nth degree, it’s cool to have a character with mysterious origins who doesn't fit it with our understanding of the rest of the world.
The vast majority of people enjoyed Tom Bombadil. The few who didn't are just a very loud minority, mostly people who absolutely worship Peter Jackson and will defend any changes he made, and attack Bombadil just for that reason.
It's absolutely true that his character would be hard to adapt to a Hollywood movie, but that doesn't mean he therefore was misplaced in the books as well. People who claim this generally aren't book readers in the first place, they only picked up the books because they liked the movie and expected the books to be just as easily digestible as the movies.
Tom Bombadil was an important character in Tolkien's sub-created legendarium long before he wrote TLotR, and Tolkien felt he should be incorporated into the narrative.
Regarding who and what Bombadil was, Tolkien left us with this; "Forn by the Dwarves, Orald by Northern Men..."
Tom Bombadil's appearance was sixty pages, most of which was rescuing the hobbits from the barrow downs and Old Man Willow. It was necessary to take this route because the main road was patrolled by Nazgul.
Tom Bombadil's chapters are enjoyable, although their main purpose in the story is just to introduce the reader to the four hobbits and have them start developing their characters.
The idea that it is a "complete waste of time" is usually coming from fans of the movies who prefer the flashes and explosions of Peter Jackson over the more patient and subtle storytelling of Tolkien. Usually Americans who like LOTR as an action movie and don't have much patience for books where not every page includes a combat scene, and they have to use their own imagination instead of having entertainment spoonfed to them.
Amazon Executive: Hey, I got a great idea.. Let's put Tom Bombadil in our crap Tolkien series and make him look like a young woman with a beard.
Tom Bombadil represents the man that has everything. He's got his home, he's got his wife, he's got his own little domain, and despite having some serious god level power in his own domain, he just doesn't care.
Just to be clear, Tolkien never did, and would never condone smoking pot. Despite what the movies (sometimes) implied Pipe weed was tobacco (or a stand in for it) not weed.
I think that maybe the writers will take this opportunity to explain where Tom got the feather in his cap and the bright clothing he is known for. This also explains why he isn't dressed in these iconic things earlier in the season.
Amazon, keep your filthy hands off of Tom Bombadil and Lady Goldberry.
I still think a proper Tom Bombadil would have fit just fine in the extended edition. Not only is he just a rockin' bro with a hot wife, he highlights the power of nature in Tolkien's world.
I think Tom also gives us insight into why other types of ancient/magical beings aren't leading the charge against Sauron. Tom himself is disconnected from the threat of Sauron because Sauron's power holds no sway over him. We can surmise that Tom has seen countless conflicts play out and likely expects to see countless more, so he's simply not troubled by any particular one.
Tolkien made the Adventures of Tom Bombadil to entertain his children then he decided to drop him into LOTR. He wanted him to be a mystery but some folks think he was a manifestation of the music of the Ainur / spirit of Arda
I bet there will be a musical episode this season.
🤣😂
Probably the only episode worth watching.
Appreciate your authenticity, keep being real.
4:03 After RoP season 2 has been released, I wonder how well this has aged. Imagine, Tom Bombadil being divorced and Goldberry hooking up with a nymph. And Bombadil having the hots for Gandalf. I can somehow see it happen...
Tom Bombadil works in the books because he seems to exist outside of the story which deepens Tolkien’s mythos. He alludes to what existed pre-Sauron (Morgoth, Eru, etc). It would have been very hard to make work in the movies.
If PJ had opted to keep Bombadil in I'm sure it would have been great and cheerful.. still the right decision to cut him.
As far as the lore discourse goes, I really feel it's the same as "give the ring to the eagles" - fun for a laugh but in truth, the quest to destroy Sauron is the endeavor of Man and mortals. The end of the Third Age marks the coming of age of mortals and so it falls to them to overcome the sins of their fathers (Isildur) and earn peace in Middle-earth as their birthright. Some of the Elves, Maiar and other powerful beings were subject to the temptation of the Ring but even those who wouldn't've been were obliged to stand back and let Man take his first wobbly steps on his own. And Bombadil was so intertwined with the fabric of nature and creation that he wouldn't have given a shit anyway.
awww the yellow Boots ....
The orks didn't move in the sunlight, which is why Sauron changed the weather to enable them to move on MInas Tirith. It's the Uruk Hai who didn't mind the sun.
"You love thing, but I hate thing and I hate you for loving it, so I will not rest until you hate thing as much as I do!" - every progressive show runner