Which might have turned out to be a mistake, as those were pretty much the only halfway critical and questioning ones whereas the rest is the usual entirely insane imagination of differences which simply aren't there, presented in the weird 3D ego-shooter - style, but admittedly with a silky and pleasant voice.
Yah nah I would have to respectfully but very strongly disagree. If you can hear the difference between a $200 DAC and a $2000 DAC then you have more sensitive/capable ears than a lot of professional grade measuring rigs
@@Emira_75 I don't think I could hear the difference tbh. I can only just hear a difference between an Intel HD onboard sound card and a £200 DAC. Of course I'll never find out because I'm not willing to spend thousands on audio kit 😉
@@Emira_75 Me as a mastering engineer, I don't dig any of the upsampling stuff because in the end my end user won't have it either. So I have to make it sound good for normal stuff. Not just for my exotic foam pad under my chair.
I like your approach to reviewing equipment; looking forward to many more. I shared your channel on the PS Audio forum; hopefully, it will assist your take off. Maybe you can get your hands on the Auralic Sirius G2.1 Upscaling Processor for review and comparison to the M Scaler. Hans Beekhuyzen just reviewed the Sirius. He wasn't too impressed using it with the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge DAC. On the other hand, he was quite smitten using it with the Denefrips Terminator R2R DAC.
I've seen a few of your videos now, and I enjoy your presentations. And I have never seen a more beautiful and artful logo than yours; it's stunning in its brilliance. But...and you knew there would be a but...this device approaches $5,000. I contend that no matter how expensive the setup, it can never reproduce the sound or experience of live music. Would I replace 5 seasons of the Lyric Opera or the Chicago Symphony Orchestra for this device? Not a chance. Now more than ever, I think it is crucial to support live musicians, whose lives have been upended for well over a year or damaged permanently.
@Lagunakid24 One thing doesn't have to exclude the other :) I'm building my high end-ish hifi (not rich so let's be honest haha), but I still have tickets to TOOL next year and a concert at the Concert Hall here in Gothenburg. Also I don't think a person who buys the M-Scaler and then don't go to a concert stays at home because they ran out of money.
The way I look at it is that I use my headphones 6+ hours a day. I don't have enough nights avilible to be able to do live shows even once a week. That makes the spending situation quite a bit easier to decipher for me.
Hi. In my experience (I have this device together with an Hugo TT2) this is a very powerful device from the sound standpoint but needs to be "handled with care". Please let me clarify: I understood in some months of tests that this device is also a very powerful source of EMI. The first step was to replace the standard power bricks with a used SJ DC3 for the MScaler and then, as second step, a self-made DC4-Lite for the TT2. But the key moment for me was when I replaced the standard dual-BNC cables provided by Chord with a self-made dual optical link based on a project I found on Head-Fi : I believe this interrupted the electrical connection between MScaler and TT2 removing a big source of noise that was affecting the TT2 performances, allowing this set to express the best sound. From that moment I could clearly understand the benefits from : -keeping the MScaler as far as possible from the other digital devices -modifying the Linear PSUs adding a Schurter dual-stage filter on the 230V power line to attenuate the EMI effect -moving the MScaler power plug on a different line than the one used for the TT2 and the amplification again to avoid EMI cross-contaminatio -adding Puritan Audio Classic Plus cables for the digital devices (they should have the ability to absorb-EMI and the effect is clearly audible) -and finally using high quality shielded Mundorf AG/AU wires for the DC connections between PSUs and devices. I took inspiration from a Rob Watts video, he clearly explains the EMI effect on sound and I agree with him on this point.
So I just discovered the joys of upsampling with HQ Player with Roon. With HQ Player, you can essentially turn your computer/server into a Chord M scalar for any NOS DAC like the Holo May, which is what I am using. It’s absolutely killer, as it sounds like a DAC upgrade without having to buy a much more expensive DAC! I’m essentially upsampling to 32bit 768k PCM on my music server and then sending that to the Holo May via my Sonore Signature Rendu network bridge. Same for DSD, as a typical DSD64 music file can easily be upsampled to DSD1024 and sent directly to the Holo May to decode at DSD1024, and it sounds absolutely God tier amazing. It’s like a $50k DAC now, that only costs $6k. So it’s well worth the money, and with any M Series Mac like the M1 Mac Mini, it can handle both Roon and HQ Player upsampling without breaking a sweat. So M1 Mac Mini for the win.
As long as the reviews are interesting and factual as they can be with the limited resources GS, I feel he does well. Also having zero agenda would be most refreshing
Zeos is full subjective, while ASR is hardline objective. He's somehat in the middle, he described himself at one video as a centrist. My take is you should watch and read multiple reviewers and draw you own conclusion. Takes the best information out of all of them.
@@bltzcstrnx The middle way could be worse - using measurements to legitimise his subjective opinions. I can't imagine how the subjective language could help in the design process, but I can see how measured data could help improve the performance of the item I was designing.
@@johnwright8814 you can have both subjective and objective views on design process, this is true not just for audio field. A building for example have both subjective (aesthetic) and objective (structure) requirements. As for reviews, that is why you need to watch a lot of them. Especially the one with different opinions about a single product. This way you can have multiple point of view, and can draw your own conclusion based on these.
What is the difference between upsampling 44.1khz using the computer's software direct to the DAC vs the Chord upscaler to the DAC? Could you explain please. Is upsampling using the computer worth while? What are the draw backs upsampling from a computer?
You are a Roon user and Roon has also a built in upsampler, I wished you compared the software upsampler from Roon to this hardware upsampler from Chord.
Thank you for the great and very helpful review. I just bought the Hugo TT2 and am now contemplating the M Scaler. Does the M Scaler also upsample Internet audio such as TH-cam and Vimeo?
Correction about M Scaler + Qutest : the M Scaler with the Chord Qutest (coupled to a dual mono-amp bi-wired Quad Hifi set-up) makes a notable difference and musicality is objectively enhanced, the discerning audiophile will notice that as well as the non-audiophile. At least this is the feedback I have received about my set-up. A DAVE DAC would go even further no doubt.
In theory, upsampling should move the antialiasing of the DAC to inaudible range. Sort of giving you a more ''clear'', some say ''analogue/natural'', sound, if that's what you seek. How big of a difference depends on your equipment and audio files. That being said, I do appreciate you mention in this video, that upsampling does not ''create'' new information in the audio files. There are other products, for instance the DSEE HX, that do try to fill all the missing data into lower quality audio files with interpolation, but with somewhat unpredictable results.
Excellent review. I have the Chord stack: Hugo TT2 & MScaler. Worth it to my ears. Cannot go back…enjoy having the ability to upscale all digital media. Most source files are 44.1khz therefore I do not need to pay for hi-res files. MScaler has 4 filters built in. BTW - Careful with the LPS - will void your warranty :)
I realize the TH-cam audio compression seriously impacts the signal output quality of this video, but when you're changing upsampling or sound output device for your headphones, does the audio input for your camera/whatever you used to record the audio for this video also change along with the audio input for your headphones? I don't have headphones nearby to check, so I have no choice but to listen to this video on my crappy phone speakers and i honestly cannot tell 😭
Thank you for your very informative videos. You mentioned.briefly the Denafrips Terminator will you review the Terminator II or Plus? - comparable to the May?
Lol I deleted my remark, as I now saw in the video, that the Dave was at 768 khz when the music is playing. And after that I saw your remark in the YT notification roll down. Thx for the reply.
You can notice these differences much easier on speakers because the drivers are way more apart, on headphones the sounds are still in your head. My Hugo 2 makes a huge difference compared to Mojo or other non Chord DACs, on headphones just a little. Hell, my friend can't hear the difference from Mojo to Hugo 2 on his HD800.
Good points. I have been researching the Chord DACS because I'm interested in buying one and I wish reviewers and commenters would state 100% what they are using the gear for? Speakers or Headphones? Because after watching hours of Chord reviews and reading tons of posts on them it seems the M-Scaler is basically more effective for a Speaker system. I don't care about speakers and only care about Headphone audio gear. I'm leaning more towards a Qutest DAC pairing with a SS Burson Soloist 3XP and LYR 3 Hybrid Tube for a desktop setup. Or the Hugo TT 2 AIO on the used market. I'm sure the M-Scaler is great... but for a HP setup it's simply not going to make a big enough difference to justify the asking price. Getting it for a speaker system is a whole other conversation.
I own it and just learned about this 3 dB headroom, claps. There is one shortcoming with the auto video/audio selector, that if you have 48 kHz audio mat (5 % in my case), it would recognise that as video and disable the upscaler. It would be great to be able to set this auto detection mode per input channel. Question on this sync-m/l filter. Is this or similar filters available for JRiver MC? Does it really require such a performant computer?
Have you tried STAX gear ? STAX have way faster transients than dynamic drivers, the difference is huge. With Chord gear it's something else. My HD800 is a toy compared to my L700 and have only a Hugo 2.
Yes, I've tried all the current production stax, and also owned the Lambda Signature for a while (which is the thinnest driver stax has ever produced). I do really appreciate some of the things estats can do, and for sure they outresolve things like HD800 by a landslide, but you give up so much in timbre and other areas. Plus, for me, susvara gets so close to estat speed/resolution without giving up other areas that its a much better package (though of course, much more expensive and difficult to drive). TOTALLY understand why people love stax. And I love them too, but I just can't really enjoy them as a main headphone. I may end up getting another pair for when i'm in the mood at somepoint though.
I did have the same combo dave+M-scaler, want to know whicn BNC (red color) pair of cables are you using ? And they have an real audible positive difference between the ones that comes originally with the M-Scaler from Chord.? Thanks a lot.
@@dobeikwan3684 I bought it for my TT2 after a home trial. It pushes the soundstage further away and makes listening more relaxed and less fatiguing.. It is subtle though. Sometimes I miss the etchiness of the tt2, so I take it off upscaling and then seconds later I switch it back because it’s not as comfortable to listen to by contrast. That all said, for the same price as a tt2+mscaler you might prefer trading your tt2 in and getting another dac (like the holo may). This might scratch the itch better than adding an mscaler would..
@@johnspy12345 Thanks so much for your reply. I can almost "feel" what you can get from the M-Scaler just from your comment. Some thoughts: 1) Thanks for mentioning the Holo May DAC; didn't know this b4 and now I gotta research it. 2) Read many comments saying that the M-Scaler is just (again) snake oil. I think it would be unwise for Chord to launch a (mid-/high-end) product that couldn't make ANY sonically noticeable improvement. 3) Another incentive for me to switch is that I'm now using the TT2 exclusively as a DAC source for my amplifier, w/o using its headphone part. Logic tells me that this translates to lost value for money. Anyway thanks for sharing, and great listening!
this concept of the benefit of up-sampling is one I really struggle with. i’m in the camp of “you can’t create new data” when it comes to up-sampling (unless you get into the new realm of AI-based up sampling like some of the high end TVs are doing, and that’s still just a guess, albeit a guess that will probably be “better” most of the time). I feel like you didn’t really *demonstrate* its benefits, beyond subjective claims from listening tests that we can’t experience ourselves. what i’d love to see is some audio tests…
Of course you can't create data, but you can represent it more accurately. Let's use an example. If we have two samples at 44.1kHz, at 16 bit then there's at least a 1/65536 increase in volume over 1/44100 seconds. So that's our minimum step. When we up sample this to 192kHz, the minimum step is now 1/192000 seconss, or 4 times less. How we fill in those samples depends on the upsampler but a good upsampler won't add new data, in will just interpolate between the two existing samples based on some algorithm. It's like the difference between falling down the stairs and walking down. Sure the end effect is the same but the individual steps are different
@@HerbertShooler than you would say HQplayer is junk to, and I experienced myself and also blind testing. Upsampling does help te music. the mscaler is expensive but a pc running HQplayer decently as well.
This is not the case with digital audio. Upsampling is a necessary process in order to adhere to Nyquist theory. Without a reconstruction filter you encounter treble rolloff and aliasing among other issues
@@GoldenSound doesn't most any D-S DAC do that, and can be achieved in software anyway? That's not even including unsubstantiated claims of improving transients and readding info that was alteady gone. You don't need to waste several grand that could go to better speakers, room treatment, or any actual improvement to sound quality.
Hello, yes your right! But in the QuickStart manual card supplied with the unit in the box, it shows the complete opposite! From what I see from other reviews, the video white light is always on and I hear a big jump in performance. Chord has got this wrong. Check your self, and listen. It seems stupid that they have this wrong. Thanks.
First, I love that you actually try to let us hear differences instead of just describing them. You put 'a lot more', 'huge' and 'better' in a frame of reference. I am super happy that I can actually hear a difference on TH-cam with my own cheap music production DAC and translate it to my set. There's one thing I can't figure out. Are you running your source (the PC) on 44.1/16 and let the Chords do the work? Or do you play higher rate/resolution if you can? I just don't seem to find the recommended initial output settings for the PC/Mac and I don't want to switch my music production applications/driver settings all the time. Thanks for sharing!
I love your video. As an owner of a Qutest I’m quite interested in the M Scaler. Your video is highly professional but what I don’t like is the short duration of your sound a/b samples. I couldn’t even hear a difference when using the Dave with and without the M Scaler. I’m at half through your video.
I've been using Roon for 6 months or so and I just installed the HQplayer beliving i wouldn't hear the difference. I was so wrong. You should definitely make a material about this thing.
I am still on the fence about the M Scaler. I have the TT2, I think the M Scaler is just a gimmick....5% improvement for $5k to the greedy Chord folks..... sad.....
I agree. I have a TT2 paired with the Meze Empyrean which I absolutely love! I bought an M Scaler looking forward to an endgame setup … and … over the course of two weeks of critical listening I literally could not hear any difference. Back and forth from pass through to full upscaling - no appreciable sound quality difference. I sent it back for a refund. I started listening via Apple Music hires and I did notice an appreciable improvement in sound quality. Maybe it’s different for speaker setups, but to say I was disillusioned by Chord was an understatement.
@@martinkay3912 I am happy for you. It is quite absurd what Chord charges us for their products. I love my tt2 more as a Dac plugged to my McIntosh mha100 and the Rogue Audio RH5 and some others amp than thinking that the tt2 is the absolutely the best combo. I am pretty certain that a 2k dollars Dac nowadays would do great things. Sabre dacs to my surprise are getting so much better. That digital “noise “ is pretty much gone. They are sounding quite smooth and warm. I would not buy again the tt2 if something goes bad with mine. Chord is just too much marketing.
Mine was made by skedra (vikingweavecables@gmail.com). Its a banana plug to XLR-Female adapter. Example would be this one: www.portentoaudio.it/en/prodotto/adattatore-xlr-4-pin-banana/
@@GoldenSound thanks for the share ! Did you have to add extra resistors to protect the headphones ? I’m thinking about using speaker amps for 1266 but I’m not sure what’s the right and safest way to do this. Thanks in advance for responding !
I just received a new dongle DAC today that I love so far. It’s the THX Onyx and it is very good for the $200 price. It outperforms my older AudioQuest Cobalt DAC and its $100 cheaper.
Hq music player is exactly that, but most of its filters require a very substantial gpu. Their Was an artical showing that 40% of their rtx 3090 test tig was being allocated to hq music upscalling.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez it doesn't require anything that powerful to upsample. If it takes you more than a simple single threaded modern computer to upsample, then you're unbelievably bad at math. Hell, it doesn't require anything nearly as powerful as an x86. I remember using simulated annealing to come up with an optimized iir filter for something similar. Break the data into blocks, and run an IIR filter on it in both directions (to get a phase linear filter!) and crossfade to deal with edges and you could be happy with computing power that was cheap 20 years ago.
Hi there. I was a bit confused by the combination of claims that the M-Scaler + Dave makes a lot more sense than an M-scaler + a cheaper dac, while at the same time you keep mentioning that the M-scaler + Dave was making smaller improvements than other combinations. In general, if the upsampling of a cheaper dac is considerably less than the upsampling of an expensive dac, wouldn't the m-scaler make a bigger difference with a cheaper dac?
Would love for GS to review the TT2 as a standalone Dac - hp amp as well as a m scaler as an adder. I would imagine the TT2 is the far superior amp the Dave the far superior Dac and the TT2 the better value. I would wonder if the Mscaler still makes sense with the TT2.
Don't buy an M Scaler for use with a Qutest? Not so. The M Scaler makes a HUGE difference to the sound and makes the Qutest an even better DAC. Probably beats the Dave.
When I was listening to my chord blu mkii with Dave, I thought that was the end game sound i was looking for. Then my audio friend introduced me to vinyl, I immediately sold my bludave. Later my friend asked me if I have heard 2-track 15ips R2Rs...now I have 5 R2Rs and 1 TT. Looking back, bludave is 5/10, TT 7/10, R2R 9/10, Live concerts 12/10. The interesting thing is...TT is 60-70% cheaper than bludave combo and R2R is 80-90% cheaper than TT. Overall, R2R is less than 10% of the cost of bludave combo but beat it in a heartbeat no matter what records you are listening to. So the mainstream’s recommendation may not always represent the best for consumers. With that being said, i do have hugo 2 with 2go for playing background music when dining. Cheers
Would this be beneficial for a vintage 8x OS 20 bit 48khz dac? Can HQPlayer do it or do i need the dac to be able to do higher res for any of this to work?
Your totally right, I used the quick start guide and it shows off as a white.and was misled as when you look at the guide for sampling rate, the guide shows USB the same colour! I have been using this unit for a year the wrong way!! What a P**K. Can you see how I made this mistake as on the guide it looks white. I never used the full online instructions. If it was not for your video, I may never have realised. Ha Ha Ha🤒
Ouch! Sorry to hear that :( But good that its corrected now! Mscaler is a lovely product (And yeah. I do which chord made their UI/manuals a bit uh....more intuitive?)
Keep in mind, it will be a whole different sound in a High End system. A Chord Blu 2 / Dave Dac would kill a lot of stuff out there. CD still does the job. 👍🏽
I would like to see Jay's CD Transport + Holo May take on Chord Blu 2 + Chord Dave. My bet would be on the Chi-Fi, but I would love to see the match up.
All I know is I like the M Scaler. It upscales all my 44.1 CDs to high res. Plus all my streaming. The DAC is getting 768k out of the M Scaler and the audio improvement is there, albeit it may be subtle depending on the recording but I dig it. The M Scaler is akin to the Darbee video upscaler if anyone is familiar with that. It may not actually add resolution, but it sure looks (sounds) like it does. Sorta like magic frankly.
"Been shown to measure poorly"? By whom? In what respects? I'd love a link. (And if it's going to be to Audio"""Science"""Review, don't fucking bother, I'll just laugh at you.)
There's just one slight problem here. If you can hear the difference after being run through the TH-cam encoding and the DAC you happen to be playing it from afterwards, it means that Chord is cheating and altering the frequency response of the output in order to make users think there's an audible difference. Otherwise we, the users of "inferior" equipment wouldn't be able to hear any change as it would again be lost in the encoding and resampling.
The sound on the video isn't from the mscaler. It's just from a virtual cable which the music player is also playing into. So unfortunately any difference won't be audible on the video and the music is just there to demonstrate what I'm listening to/discussing
I wonder just how much power is required to run the sinc-M filter in HQPlayer. I’d love to try and get it going on a fanless PC. Probably best case would be a Ryzen 5700G (about to come out).
Just wanted to add that you only get half a million taps, hence the small difference you heard when going from blue to white on the sampling frequency. This is when the M Scaler jumps from 4 times to 16 times upscaling. To me, this is the biggest jump in sound quality, but with the video mode switch in like in your video, ( Blank ) your not getting the benefits of the processing power. Do try again with the video mode switch off ( White ). The full instruction manual available on line from Chord's website will tell you not to use video mode on music only playback. Good luck with your channel and thanks.
Here from your MQA video and I'm here to stay.👏🏾
+1
Which might have turned out to be a mistake, as those were pretty much the only halfway critical and questioning ones whereas the rest is the usual entirely insane imagination of differences which simply aren't there, presented in the weird 3D ego-shooter - style, but admittedly with a silky and pleasant voice.
Hey man I look forward to your HQPlayer video!
Me as well! Happy Holidays!
Me looking at a $200 DAC: "that's a bit pricey". This guy: "This $15,000 combo is worth every penny". Me.... :o
Yah nah I would have to respectfully but very strongly disagree. If you can hear the difference between a $200 DAC and a $2000 DAC then you have more sensitive/capable ears than a lot of professional grade measuring rigs
@@Emira_75 I don't think I could hear the difference tbh. I can only just hear a difference between an Intel HD onboard sound card and a £200 DAC. Of course I'll never find out because I'm not willing to spend thousands on audio kit 😉
@@vext01 I can't even hear any difference between onboard and Modi 2.
@@Emira_75 Me as a mastering engineer, I don't dig any of the upsampling stuff because in the end my end user won't have it either. So I have to make it sound good for normal stuff. Not just for my exotic foam pad under my chair.
@@Emira_75 or maybe you have a very good amp and very good speakers.
I don’t know how I haven’t discovered your channel before - you’ve got some awesome content. Been binging on dac videos all evening cheers 🥂
Really good review. The observations are spot on and the recommendations make a lot of sense.
Would love to se a TT2 review with and without the M Scaler
I like your approach to reviewing equipment; looking forward to many more. I shared your channel on the PS Audio forum; hopefully, it will assist your take off. Maybe you can get your hands on the Auralic Sirius G2.1 Upscaling Processor for review and comparison to the M Scaler. Hans Beekhuyzen just reviewed the Sirius. He wasn't too impressed using it with the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge DAC. On the other hand, he was quite smitten using it with the Denefrips Terminator R2R DAC.
I've seen a few of your videos now, and I enjoy your presentations. And I have never seen a more beautiful and artful logo than yours; it's stunning in its brilliance. But...and you knew there would be a but...this device approaches $5,000.
I contend that no matter how expensive the setup, it can never reproduce the sound or experience of live music. Would I replace 5 seasons of the Lyric Opera or the Chicago Symphony Orchestra for this device? Not a chance. Now more than ever, I think it is crucial to support live musicians, whose lives have been upended for well over a year or damaged permanently.
@Lagunakid24 One thing doesn't have to exclude the other :) I'm building my high end-ish hifi (not rich so let's be honest haha), but I still have tickets to TOOL next year and a concert at the Concert Hall here in Gothenburg. Also I don't think a person who buys the M-Scaler and then don't go to a concert stays at home because they ran out of money.
The way I look at it is that I use my headphones 6+ hours a day. I don't have enough nights avilible to be able to do live shows even once a week. That makes the spending situation quite a bit easier to decipher for me.
Hi. In my experience (I have this device together with an Hugo TT2) this is a very powerful device from the sound standpoint but needs to be "handled with care".
Please let me clarify: I understood in some months of tests that this device is also a very powerful source of EMI.
The first step was to replace the standard power bricks with a used SJ DC3 for the MScaler and then, as second step, a self-made DC4-Lite for the TT2.
But the key moment for me was when I replaced the standard dual-BNC cables provided by Chord with a self-made dual optical link based on a project I found on Head-Fi : I believe this interrupted the electrical connection between MScaler and TT2 removing a big source of noise that was affecting the TT2 performances, allowing this set to express the best sound.
From that moment I could clearly understand the benefits from :
-keeping the MScaler as far as possible from the other digital devices
-modifying the Linear PSUs adding a Schurter dual-stage filter on the 230V power line to attenuate the EMI effect -moving the MScaler power plug on a different line than the one used for the TT2 and the amplification again to avoid EMI cross-contaminatio
-adding Puritan Audio Classic Plus cables for the digital devices (they should have the ability to absorb-EMI and the effect is clearly audible)
-and finally using high quality shielded Mundorf AG/AU wires for the DC connections between PSUs and devices.
I took inspiration from a Rob Watts video, he clearly explains the EMI effect on sound and I agree with him on this point.
So I just discovered the joys of upsampling with HQ Player with Roon. With HQ Player, you can essentially turn your computer/server into a Chord M scalar for any NOS DAC like the Holo May, which is what I am using. It’s absolutely killer, as it sounds like a DAC upgrade without having to buy a much more expensive DAC! I’m essentially upsampling to 32bit 768k PCM on my music server and then sending that to the Holo May via my Sonore Signature Rendu network bridge. Same for DSD, as a typical DSD64 music file can easily be upsampled to DSD1024 and sent directly to the Holo May to decode at DSD1024, and it sounds absolutely God tier amazing. It’s like a $50k DAC now, that only costs $6k. So it’s well worth the money, and with any M Series Mac like the M1 Mac Mini, it can handle both Roon and HQ Player upsampling without breaking a sweat. So M1 Mac Mini for the win.
I'm hyped for the Digital to Headphone video!
Great Video! But Bring on the HQ Player video!!!!!!!! Please! Looking forward to it. Thank you.
Wow you know your stuff man. Awesome job
Still waiting for that HQPlayer video!!!
I hope that you become a British "Audio Science Review" rather than a British "Zeos Pantera".
As long as the reviews are interesting and factual as they can be with the limited resources GS, I feel he does well. Also having zero agenda would be most refreshing
@@davidmasters1242 This IS a British "Zeos Pantera"! lol. Albeit much more refined.
Zeos is full subjective, while ASR is hardline objective. He's somehat in the middle, he described himself at one video as a centrist. My take is you should watch and read multiple reviewers and draw you own conclusion. Takes the best information out of all of them.
@@bltzcstrnx The middle way could be worse - using measurements to legitimise his subjective opinions. I can't imagine how the subjective language could help in the design process, but I can see how measured data could help improve the performance of the item I was designing.
@@johnwright8814 you can have both subjective and objective views on design process, this is true not just for audio field. A building for example have both subjective (aesthetic) and objective (structure) requirements.
As for reviews, that is why you need to watch a lot of them. Especially the one with different opinions about a single product. This way you can have multiple point of view, and can draw your own conclusion based on these.
I love the candy ball aesthetic. God knows we don't need more anonymous black boxes...
What is the difference between upsampling 44.1khz using the computer's software direct to the DAC vs the Chord upscaler to the DAC? Could you explain please. Is upsampling using the computer worth while? What are the draw backs upsampling from a computer?
He answered this question on his Holo Audio May review. There he even prefers software upsampling using HQPlayer compared to Mojo Upscaler.
" Subjectively " You Have Lower than Zero Creditability, P.R.A.T.(Pace, Rhythm And Timing) W.A.N.K(We Are Not Kidding)😉
You are a Roon user and Roon has also a built in upsampler, I wished you compared the software upsampler from Roon to this hardware upsampler from Chord.
My thoughts exactly...
HW upsampling is clearly better, there is no contest here
@@simplereef4854 That's a conclusion made too fast. The HW upsampler is software driven.
even audirvana has upsampler
@@simplereef4854 - it's not about the absolute result, but the relative one, the comparision, the reviewers opinion.
Thank you for the great and very helpful review. I just bought the Hugo TT2 and am now contemplating the M Scaler. Does the M Scaler also upsample Internet audio such as TH-cam and Vimeo?
Thank you very much. 3 years on and no HQPlayer review? It sounds potentially revelatory. Is there a problem with it?
Why was the review of the DAVE+M-Scaler removed?
Correction about M Scaler + Qutest : the M Scaler with the Chord Qutest (coupled to a dual mono-amp bi-wired Quad Hifi set-up) makes a notable difference and musicality is objectively enhanced, the discerning audiophile will notice that as well as the non-audiophile. At least this is the feedback I have received about my set-up. A DAVE DAC would go even further no doubt.
Did you ever end up making the HQplayer video?
Will we get a review for the Holo may?
Your MQA video was really good. I wish you use the same analogy and show null tests to compare the outputs, which would give some idea. Thanks!
The M Scalar has already been debunked by Amir at Audio Science Review. Video on YT. If you want a purely objective view then watch.
so if you have a computer capable of running hqplayer this is like throwing money out the window?
I have moved on. I am now using a Audio Note UK CDT-4 and I will be getting a SW1X Level 4 balanced Dac. SW1X is doing some excellent stuff.
When are we getting the HQ player video?
what about software like jriver for a up sampler software better than hardware?
In theory, upsampling should move the antialiasing of the DAC to inaudible range. Sort of giving you a more ''clear'', some say ''analogue/natural'', sound, if that's what you seek. How big of a difference depends on your equipment and audio files. That being said, I do appreciate you mention in this video, that upsampling does not ''create'' new information in the audio files. There are other products, for instance the DSEE HX, that do try to fill all the missing data into lower quality audio files with interpolation, but with somewhat unpredictable results.
Earned a new sub!
Using The War on Drugs as demo - kudos!
can you release a lossless version of your videos, so we can hear at better than youtube quality?
Excellent review. I have the Chord stack: Hugo TT2 & MScaler. Worth it to my ears. Cannot go back…enjoy having the ability to upscale all digital media. Most source files are 44.1khz therefore I do not need to pay for hi-res files. MScaler has 4 filters built in. BTW - Careful with the LPS - will void your warranty :)
I have a TT2 and have been wondering if the mscaler was worth it...
I wonder how TT2+HQplayer compares to the TT2+Mscaler.
I realize the TH-cam audio compression seriously impacts the signal output quality of this video, but when you're changing upsampling or sound output device for your headphones, does the audio input for your camera/whatever you used to record the audio for this video also change along with the audio input for your headphones?
I don't have headphones nearby to check, so I have no choice but to listen to this video on my crappy phone speakers and i honestly cannot tell 😭
This isn't a sound demo for TH-cam. TH-cam destroy the sound. This is first and foremost about listening to what he tells.
Don't worry, the Golden Sound guy can't either.
Should I be able to hear the difference from this video?
is there a link to the HQPlayer video ?
given the delay in processing, how does it handle jitter?
You forgot to mention that not everyone wants their sound system constantly hooked up to a PC with layers of software running.
Thank you for your very informative videos. You mentioned.briefly the Denafrips Terminator will you review the Terminator II or Plus? - comparable to the May?
Lol I deleted my remark, as I now saw in the video, that the Dave was at 768 khz when the music is playing. And after that I saw your remark in the YT notification roll down. Thx for the reply.
You can notice these differences much easier on speakers because the drivers are way more apart, on headphones the sounds are still in your head. My Hugo 2 makes a huge difference compared to Mojo or other non Chord DACs, on headphones just a little. Hell, my friend can't hear the difference from Mojo to Hugo 2 on his HD800.
Good points. I have been researching the Chord DACS because I'm interested in buying one and I wish reviewers and commenters would state 100% what they are using the gear for? Speakers or Headphones? Because after watching hours of Chord reviews and reading tons of posts on them it seems the M-Scaler is basically more effective for a Speaker system. I don't care about speakers and only care about Headphone audio gear. I'm leaning more towards a Qutest DAC pairing with a SS Burson Soloist 3XP and LYR 3 Hybrid Tube for a desktop setup. Or the Hugo TT 2 AIO on the used market. I'm sure the M-Scaler is great... but for a HP setup it's simply not going to make a big enough difference to justify the asking price. Getting it for a speaker system is a whole other conversation.
Hi, when do you can on doing your hq player video? I am on the fence about an mscaler purchase.
Great vid! Will a DDC in front of the mscaler make any improvement in jitter reduction?
I own it and just learned about this 3 dB headroom, claps.
There is one shortcoming with the auto video/audio selector, that if you have 48 kHz audio mat (5 % in my case), it would recognise that as video and disable the upscaler. It would be great to be able to set this auto detection mode per input channel.
Question on this sync-m/l filter. Is this or similar filters available for JRiver MC? Does it really require such a performant computer?
Now I really really want to see this video about upsampling.
Did you measure the device? Amir from ASR just did...
goldensound.audio/2022/03/17/chord-hugo-m-scaler-measurements-and-technical-evaluation/
@@GoldenSound Your site doesn't load properly. Can't see measurements.... anyway would you be willing to compare testing methods / results with ASR?
You have nicer hands than your go pro rival, Zeos. ;)
Seriously though. Well done. Thank you.
Have you tried STAX gear ? STAX have way faster transients than dynamic drivers, the difference is huge. With Chord gear it's something else. My HD800 is a toy compared to my L700 and have only a Hugo 2.
Yes, I've tried all the current production stax, and also owned the Lambda Signature for a while (which is the thinnest driver stax has ever produced). I do really appreciate some of the things estats can do, and for sure they outresolve things like HD800 by a landslide, but you give up so much in timbre and other areas. Plus, for me, susvara gets so close to estat speed/resolution without giving up other areas that its a much better package (though of course, much more expensive and difficult to drive).
TOTALLY understand why people love stax. And I love them too, but I just can't really enjoy them as a main headphone.
I may end up getting another pair for when i'm in the mood at somepoint though.
What about measurements? Didn't really shine on Amir's desk...
I did have the same combo dave+M-scaler, want to know whicn BNC (red color) pair of cables are you using ? And they have an real audible positive difference between the ones that comes originally with the M-Scaler from Chord.? Thanks a lot.
Hello, does it make a big diff adding the M-Scaler before the DAVE? Thinking of adding it to my TT2 but seems hard to find user comments
@@dobeikwan3684 I bought it for my TT2 after a home trial. It pushes the soundstage further away and makes listening more relaxed and less fatiguing.. It is subtle though. Sometimes I miss the etchiness of the tt2, so I take it off upscaling and then seconds later I switch it back because it’s not as comfortable to listen to by contrast.
That all said, for the same price as a tt2+mscaler you might prefer trading your tt2 in and getting another dac (like the holo may). This might scratch the itch better than adding an mscaler would..
@@johnspy12345 Thanks so much for your reply. I can almost "feel" what you can get from the M-Scaler just from your comment. Some thoughts:
1) Thanks for mentioning the Holo May DAC; didn't know this b4 and now I gotta research it.
2) Read many comments saying that the M-Scaler is just (again) snake oil. I think it would be unwise for Chord to launch a (mid-/high-end) product that couldn't make ANY sonically noticeable improvement.
3) Another incentive for me to switch is that I'm now using the TT2 exclusively as a DAC source for my amplifier, w/o using its headphone part. Logic tells me that this translates to lost value for money.
Anyway thanks for sharing, and great listening!
this concept of the benefit of up-sampling is one I really struggle with. i’m in the camp of “you can’t create new data” when it comes to up-sampling (unless you get into the new realm of AI-based up sampling like some of the high end TVs are doing, and that’s still just a guess, albeit a guess that will probably be “better” most of the time). I feel like you didn’t really *demonstrate* its benefits, beyond subjective claims from listening tests that we can’t experience ourselves. what i’d love to see is some audio tests…
Of course you can't create data, but you can represent it more accurately. Let's use an example. If we have two samples at 44.1kHz, at 16 bit then there's at least a 1/65536 increase in volume over 1/44100 seconds. So that's our minimum step. When we up sample this to 192kHz, the minimum step is now 1/192000 seconss, or 4 times less. How we fill in those samples depends on the upsampler but a good upsampler won't add new data, in will just interpolate between the two existing samples based on some algorithm.
It's like the difference between falling down the stairs and walking down. Sure the end effect is the same but the individual steps are different
It's complete snake oil
ASR measured it: th-cam.com/video/Zrqe2XFZtMU/w-d-xo.html
ASR Amir has measured this… here on YT.
@@HerbertShooler than you would say HQplayer is junk to, and I experienced myself and also blind testing. Upsampling does help te music. the mscaler is expensive but a pc running HQplayer decently as well.
A small circuit board is hidden under the huge body
upsampling is like upscaling when it comes to image quality. Totally undisirable. U dont buy an 8k tv to watch a dvd on.
This is not the case with digital audio. Upsampling is a necessary process in order to adhere to Nyquist theory. Without a reconstruction filter you encounter treble rolloff and aliasing among other issues
@@GoldenSound doesn't most any D-S DAC do that, and can be achieved in software anyway? That's not even including unsubstantiated claims of improving transients and readding info that was alteady gone.
You don't need to waste several grand that could go to better speakers, room treatment, or any actual improvement to sound quality.
May I ask, what are you using as the BNC cables between the M-Scaler and the DAVE? I hear that is critical for optimal performance.
Hello, yes your right! But in the QuickStart manual card supplied with the unit in the box, it shows the complete opposite! From what I see from other reviews, the video white light is always on and I hear a big jump in performance. Chord has got this wrong. Check your self, and listen.
It seems stupid that they have this wrong.
Thanks.
First, I love that you actually try to let us hear differences instead of just describing them. You put 'a lot more', 'huge' and 'better' in a frame of reference. I am super happy that I can actually hear a difference on TH-cam with my own cheap music production DAC and translate it to my set. There's one thing I can't figure out. Are you running your source (the PC) on 44.1/16 and let the Chords do the work? Or do you play higher rate/resolution if you can? I just don't seem to find the recommended initial output settings for the PC/Mac and I don't want to switch my music production applications/driver settings all the time. Thanks for sharing!
I love your video. As an owner of a Qutest I’m quite interested in the M Scaler. Your video is highly professional but what I don’t like is the short duration of your sound a/b samples. I couldn’t even hear a difference when using the Dave with and without the M Scaler. I’m at half through your video.
I've been using Roon for 6 months or so and I just installed the HQplayer beliving i wouldn't hear the difference. I was so wrong.
You should definitely make a material about this thing.
what digital source do you mean when you said you need good digital source for hqplayer? a music file, network streamer or ddc ?
Seems this is an infomercial for mscaler
GoldenSound I hope you add more content, you haven't posted in quite a while
where is the video on hqplayer?
I am still on the fence about the M Scaler. I have the TT2, I think the M Scaler is just a gimmick....5% improvement for $5k to the greedy Chord folks..... sad.....
I know their products are expensive but I love my Qutest so much and it has made such a change in my system that I would buy again in a heartbeat.
I agree. I have a TT2 paired with the Meze Empyrean which I absolutely love! I bought an M Scaler looking forward to an endgame setup … and … over the course of two weeks of critical listening I literally could not hear any difference. Back and forth from pass through to full upscaling - no appreciable sound quality difference. I sent it back for a refund. I started listening via Apple Music hires and I did notice an appreciable improvement in sound quality. Maybe it’s different for speaker setups, but to say I was disillusioned by Chord was an understatement.
@@martinkay3912 I am happy for you. It is quite absurd what Chord charges us for their products. I love my tt2 more as a Dac plugged to my McIntosh mha100 and the Rogue Audio RH5 and some others amp than thinking that the tt2 is the absolutely the best combo. I am pretty certain that a 2k dollars Dac nowadays would do great things. Sabre dacs to my surprise are getting so much better. That digital “noise “ is pretty much gone. They are sounding quite smooth and warm. I would not buy again the tt2 if something goes bad with mine. Chord is just too much marketing.
Have you tried the Musical Fidelity MX-DAC upsampling dac?
how is the combination of chord dave and hqplayer compared to dave and mscaler?
Will you get beneficial results with a PS Audio Directstream DAC?
Where is the HQPlayer vid?
What BNC cables are those?
could you please show me the cable adapter you used to connect speaker amp to headphones ?
Mine was made by skedra (vikingweavecables@gmail.com). Its a banana plug to XLR-Female adapter.
Example would be this one: www.portentoaudio.it/en/prodotto/adattatore-xlr-4-pin-banana/
@@GoldenSound thanks for the share ! Did you have to add extra resistors to protect the headphones ? I’m thinking about using speaker amps for 1266 but I’m not sure what’s the right and safest way to do this. Thanks in advance for responding !
How does the Hugo TT2 and M Scaler compare to the May KTE
Don’t know why the mscaler doesn’t have a usb audio output to feed dacs with usb inputs that can handle 384 or 768khz
I just received a new dongle DAC today that I love so far. It’s the THX Onyx and it is very good for the $200 price. It outperforms my older AudioQuest Cobalt DAC and its $100 cheaper.
Anybody has a good/free Music format converter to recommend?? Thx in advance
haiii..what brand cabel bnc you use?tq..
Where can I get those custom headphone cables
My cables were all made by Skedra ( vikingweavecables@gmail.com / vikingaudioblog.com )
What is the full name for the Amplifer may somthing?
@@cool28990 The DAC (left) is the Holo May. The amplifier (right) is the benchmark AHB2
Has anyone used an M Scaler with a Berkeley Reference DAC?
I would upsample in software. Math can be as perfect as you program it. If you want 100% perfect, well computers are fast now.
Hq music player is exactly that, but most of its filters require a very substantial gpu. Their Was an artical showing that 40% of their rtx 3090 test tig was being allocated to hq music upscalling.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez it doesn't require anything that powerful to upsample.
If it takes you more than a simple single threaded modern computer to upsample, then you're unbelievably bad at math. Hell, it doesn't require anything nearly as powerful as an x86.
I remember using simulated annealing to come up with an optimized iir filter for something similar. Break the data into blocks, and run an IIR filter on it in both directions (to get a phase linear filter!) and crossfade to deal with edges and you could be happy with computing power that was cheap 20 years ago.
Hi there. I was a bit confused by the combination of claims that the M-Scaler + Dave makes a lot more sense than an M-scaler + a cheaper dac, while at the same time you keep mentioning that the M-scaler + Dave was making smaller improvements than other combinations. In general, if the upsampling of a cheaper dac is considerably less than the upsampling of an expensive dac, wouldn't the m-scaler make a bigger difference with a cheaper dac?
basically, get a better dac instead of spending the same if not double on trying to improve your dac
I use a mutec upscaler which I enjoy.
Would love for GS to review the TT2 as a standalone Dac - hp amp as well as a m scaler as an adder. I would imagine the TT2 is the far superior amp the Dave the far superior Dac and the TT2 the better value. I would wonder if the Mscaler still makes sense with the TT2.
Don't buy an M Scaler for use with a Qutest? Not so. The M Scaler makes a HUGE difference to the sound and makes the Qutest an even better DAC. Probably beats the Dave.
You're forever wrong about the Chord aesthetic.
When I was listening to my chord blu mkii with Dave, I thought that was the end game sound i was looking for. Then my audio friend introduced me to vinyl, I immediately sold my bludave. Later my friend asked me if I have heard 2-track 15ips R2Rs...now I have 5 R2Rs and 1 TT. Looking back, bludave is 5/10, TT 7/10, R2R 9/10, Live concerts 12/10. The interesting thing is...TT is 60-70% cheaper than bludave combo and R2R is 80-90% cheaper than TT. Overall, R2R is less than 10% of the cost of bludave combo but beat it in a heartbeat no matter what records you are listening to. So the mainstream’s recommendation may not always represent the best for consumers. With that being said, i do have hugo 2 with 2go for playing background music when dining. Cheers
Interesting analysis.
USB Audio Player Pro upsampling enhances similar qualities to my ears (Android).
Would this be beneficial for a vintage 8x OS 20 bit 48khz dac? Can HQPlayer do it or do i need the dac to be able to do higher res for any of this to work?
I have a Blu 2 upscaler cd and a Dave , is this upgrade worth considering , thanks .
Snake oil
Your totally right, I used the quick start guide and it shows off as a white.and was misled as when you look at the guide for sampling rate, the guide shows USB the same colour! I have been using this unit for a year the wrong way!! What a P**K. Can you see how I made this mistake as on the guide it looks white. I never used the full online instructions. If it was not for your video, I may never have realised. Ha Ha Ha🤒
Ouch! Sorry to hear that :(
But good that its corrected now!
Mscaler is a lovely product
(And yeah. I do which chord made their UI/manuals a bit uh....more intuitive?)
That's what an idiot buy, if he already bought $10k power cables:)
Keep in mind, it will be a whole different sound in a High End system. A Chord Blu 2 / Dave Dac would kill a lot of stuff out there. CD still does the job. 👍🏽
I would like to see Jay's CD Transport + Holo May take on Chord Blu 2 + Chord Dave. My bet would be on the Chi-Fi, but I would love to see the match up.
All I know is I like the M Scaler. It upscales all my 44.1 CDs to high res. Plus all my streaming. The DAC is getting 768k out of the M Scaler and the audio improvement is there, albeit it may be subtle depending on the recording but I dig it. The M Scaler is akin to the Darbee video upscaler if anyone is familiar with that. It may not actually add resolution, but it sure looks (sounds) like it does. Sorta like magic frankly.
Are you a sales rep for Chord? I've seen this exact comment on multiple videos.
@@dakken74 Nope. See my channel and be sure to like and subscribe.
I have a yggdrassil. will the mscaler have any benefits?
Potentially. I would definitely use HQPlayer instead of the mscaler though. A friend of mine is currently using HQP with his yggy.
Those DACs have been shown to measure poorly. In addition they are grossly overpriced. Very grossly overpriced.
"Been shown to measure poorly"? By whom? In what respects? I'd love a link. (And if it's going to be to Audio"""Science"""Review, don't fucking bother, I'll just laugh at you.)
There's just one slight problem here. If you can hear the difference after being run through the TH-cam encoding and the DAC you happen to be playing it from afterwards, it means that Chord is cheating and altering the frequency response of the output in order to make users think there's an audible difference. Otherwise we, the users of "inferior" equipment wouldn't be able to hear any change as it would again be lost in the encoding and resampling.
The sound on the video isn't from the mscaler. It's just from a virtual cable which the music player is also playing into.
So unfortunately any difference won't be audible on the video and the music is just there to demonstrate what I'm listening to/discussing
I wonder just how much power is required to run the sinc-M filter in HQPlayer. I’d love to try and get it going on a fanless PC. Probably best case would be a Ryzen 5700G (about to come out).
Just wanted to add that you only get half a million taps, hence the small difference you heard when going from blue to white on the sampling frequency. This is when the M Scaler jumps from 4 times to 16 times upscaling. To me, this is the biggest jump in sound quality, but with the video mode switch in like in your video, ( Blank ) your not getting the benefits of the processing power. Do try again with the video mode switch off ( White ). The full instruction manual available on line from Chord's website will tell you not to use video mode on music only playback.
Good luck with your channel and thanks.
In the manual the light being on/white means video mode is active. I have video mode disabled.
thegoldenone.co.uk/wAAV9GxOLk.png
Snake oil....
$35 worth of parts
I would recommend looking up the cost of even just the FPGA alone....