Chord M-Scaler & Qutest - Endgame or Pretendgame?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ส.ค. 2020
- Want to buy some Chord Electronics products? Use this link and support Passion for Sound for FREE! tinyurl.com/y5bfyspr
The Purpose of Upscaling: 3:50
Design & Features: 6:58
Sound (M-Scaler & Qutest): 12:12
Comparison Hugo TT2 vs Qutest with M-Scaler: 14:11
You might have noticed the 'easter egg' musical t-shirts I'm wearing in the videos lately. If you like them, you can get them from Threadheads and enjoy a 10% discount on me! Just use the promo code PFS10 here: threadheads.com.au/
SUPPORT THE CHANNEL
Want to support the creation of more and better reviews and other videos? Head over to the Patreon page and check out the benefits that Patrons receive including behind the scenes content, ad-free videos, and AMA opportunities: / passionforsound
Want to support Passion for Sound, but not via Patreon? You can send a one-off donation using this link: paypal.me/lachfen
Or you can use this link to buy ANYTHING from Amazon: amzn.to/3dtyiWQ
HUGO M-SCALER SPECIFICATIONS
Inputs:
2x BNC
2x optical
1x galvanically isolated USB Type-B compatible with DSD and PCM data (up to DSD 256); with DSD upsampled to PCM
Outputs:
1x optical
1x S/PDIF
1x galvanically isolated dual BNC - enables upscaling to the maximum resolution (768kHz from 96kHz data)
Additional features:
The most advanced digital filter in the world
Adjustable sample rate output (with pass-thru mode)
Video mode (for lower latency)
Auto video and source selection
‘DX’ controls for future product
Designed, engineered and entirely made in the UK
Precision-milled chassis, crafted from aircraft-grade aluminium
Music in this video: The Specialist by Duke Herrington - You can get it here: www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
PASSION FOR SOUND GEAR LIST
(Affiliate links to Amazon and Apos Audio help to support the channel - thank you!)
Desktop Sources
Playback software: Roon roonlabs.com/r/St5em2YsbUqGXc...
Primary DAC: Chord Hugo TT2 tinyurl.com/y4vys4zq with Chord M-Scaler tinyurl.com/y6hcm3kw
Secondary DAC for active speakers: Topping D50s amzn.to/2T2GExr upgraded with Muses02 op-amp amzn.to/2FtPmNj
USB cables: AudioQuest Diamond amzn.to/35AX4Qf and AudioQuest Coffee amzn.to/3059qiA
Active Speakers
Bang & Olufsen BeoLab 3 Speakers
Amps
Massdrop x THX AAA 789 Amplifier massdrop.7eer.net/J0xWa
Bottlehead Mainline DIY kit tube amplifier bottlehead.com/product/mainli...
Burson Audio FUN: www.bursonaudio.com/products/... with Sparkos Labs SS3601 op-amps: sparkoslabs.com/product/singl...
Headphones
Open: Meze Audio Empyrean tinyurl.com/y6gfyquz
Open: Focal Clear amzn.to/37Ihgky
Semi-open: Beyerdynamic DT880 Premium LE massdrop.7eer.net/L6633 or amzn.to/3bBg7xs
Closed: AudioQuest NightOwl Carbon (these may have been discontinued)
Closed: Audio Technica ATH-M50x amzn.to/2Y2NeXo
Closed: Meze Audio 99 Neo tinyurl.com/y2zjd6wm
Portable
Phone: Samsung Galaxy S10+ amzn.to/37MzTUA
DAC for phone: Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt amzn.to/36AzpAB
Digital audio player: Astell & Kern AK240 Stainless Steel amzn.to/2ZluP70
Earphones
Audiofly AF1120 Mk2: amzn.to/2ZoTuHZ
Noble Kaiser 10 custom IEM (discontinued) - universal version available via Drop massdrop.7eer.net/vkaWy
SIMGOT EN700 PRO amzn.to/304xO3R
Shozy Form 1.4 amzn.to/3cIL0Az or massdrop.7eer.net/499YL
Bluetooth Headphones
Nuraphone amzn.to/2N7G2Tu - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Thank you for a fantastic explanation about the M-Scaler. I could never get my head around it before. Your videos are superb, thank you.
So glad it came across clearly! Thanks Jim!
Excellent advice. As an owner of the Qutest and Mscaler, I totally agree with your evaluation of this combo.
Thanks hardstuff. Always nice to get confirmation! Enjoy your setup!
This was very informative, thank you.
You're welcome! 🙂
You did amazing in staying calm when baby was having a bad day. Hope he is feeling better!
Thank you! He's doing great. We still have our days and with my office right next door, recording is sometimes tricky, but we manage and he's a wonderful little guy.
Great video, you just describe things in a way that is easy to understand. Not all reviewers can do this. I finally understand what the MScaler does
So glad it was helpful! Thank you for letting me know! 🙂🙂
which is 0.000000000
Thanks very much for the informative review!
I was abit apprehensive shelling out the money for Hugo TT2, as I already have a nice tube amp that I really want to make the most of and gravitating towards Qutest. If I get the TT2 I am paying extra for the HP out which I don't really need.
Seeing that Qutest and MScaler provides a similar performance to Hugo TT2 for a similar price tag reassures me. I can buy the Qutest first, and then M scaler later. Later on, I can keep the M-scaler and jump straight to the DAVE (maybe 2ndhand) when the opportunity comes.
As always thanks again for your hardwork and answering the questions that we as viewers wish to be answered 😀
So glad I could help! 🙂🙂
What a perfect information for me. Thank you for share about your experience.
My pleasure. I'm so glad I could help 🙂🙂
Definitely an interesting product. I'll be excited for the TT2 full review..good review 👍🏼
Thanks Joshua, the TT2 review will drop in 2 weeks (Schiit Magni Heresy is up next)
@@PassionforSound oh sweet. That is fun to haha. 👍🏼
Hi. Many thanks for the high quality content. Appreciate it. Question:does it make a difference if you use a normal dac (dragonfly for example) to increase the sample rate etc when playing your music? If the source is at 44.1khz or 48khz,incraesing the sample rate does not make a significant difference. I was tempted to check the mscaler at one point and how naive I was. Wow the price brings more tears than a pencil on my bike seat 😅
Haha - ouch! Yes, upscaling on basic DACs rarely makes a significant difference. The magic is in the filtering applied by the M-Scaler to reconstruct the signal properly. I'll do my best to explain it thoroughly in the M-Scaler review coming two weeks from now
Thanks for another great review, will try en get my hands on an mscaler now.
You're welcome. It's definitely worth the effort!
Sanjay Salariya total rubbish I reviewed all and the tt2 alone is so much better than Qutest and m scaler. Better dynamically and with bass and detail, the m scaler just adds depth and space , but that’s not a jot to dynamics and bass retention. The m scaler is poor vfm.
This is a great review and explains in a very articulate way what the Mscaler brings to the Qutest party.
Another different slant on the 'stepping stone' to the TT2 quandary is perhaps to think of another alternative upgrade path and that is to miss out the TT2 altogether and have Dave + Mscaler as the ultimate endgame.
I personally like the Qutest and Mscaler combination so much that I would prefer to stick with that until I could afford to add the Dave later or maybe never.
Well done though, great review.
Thanks Nick. As good as the TT2 is, I have to admit that I miss the Qutest. The Dave is a whole other ballgame though. Not sure if I'll ever be ready to spend that much in addition to the M-Scaler 😉
@@PassionforSound I had better not tell you then about the Sean Jacobs DC4 power supply that I am using with my Dave instead of the inbuilt factory SMPS. It costs 50% of the cost of Dave itself but is worth every penny because it takes Dave into a whole new area of sound quality. Sean is of course the guy that designs the power supplies in the Innuos Statement and their other servers. The DC4 Dave is simply sublime.
Wow and ouch! I guess I'll need to think about 2 power supplies in the future for the M-Scaler and TT2 then!! 😲
Oh little baby, play a lullaby on the TT2 with mscaler should give him a sweet dream
Haha. I'm sure he'll get plenty of listening time in the coming years 🙂
Great vid! Will a DDC in front of the mscaler make any improvement in jitter reduction?
I found that the DDC with an excellent coaxial cable was comparable with the JCat USB card and Curious Evolved USB cable and they're an improvement from a generic connection so, yes, I'd say the DDC is an upgrade, but only with a quality interconnect between the DDC and M-Scaler.
I currently have an RME ADI-2 DAC - can you put the Chrord M-Scaler with the RME DAC? How big an improvement in SQ would that give? Was thinking of upgradin the RME to a Chord Hugo TT2 and then saving up for an MScaler later on. But maybe I'd getter faster improvements by adding the MScaler to the RME and then later on upgrading the RME to a TT2? Any views?
Answered on the ADI-2 comparison video 🙂
Hello, thank you for your informative review. I have a basic question. I'm currently using my Hugo 2 + 2go through Roon Ready. I've got interested in Mscaler after finding out there was a coax digital cable(3.5 to BNC) specially made for paring of these devices, which would give full upscaling. However, I wonder if this is changing the source's input from Hugo2's to Mscaler's so that I'm no longer able to use 2go's networking function. Am I understanding correctly?
I'm not 100% sure because I haven't used the 2go, but my understanding is that the 2go interfaces directly with the Hugo 2. To use M-Scaler you'd need a digital signal out of the 2go to the M-Scaler and them from the M-Scaler back to the Hugo 2. So you're understanding correctly, but I don't know if there's a workaround
@@PassionforSoundThank you very much. After reading your answer, I did a little bit more reseach because 2go didn't have any separate output other than the direct connection to Hugo 2. The good news is that there's "2yu" which connects to 2go enabling it as a standalone streamer with multiple outputs. The bad news is extra money!
Ain't that the way? 😉 Glad you found a solution!
I have been waiting for this video being a qutest owner! Thank you!
Hi Max, you're most welcome. Hopefully I don't cause your wallet any problems with the next 2 Chord reviews...
Passion for Sound funny you should say that because I am currently saving for a chord Hugo tt2 to replace my qutest. This is for a 2 channel Hi-Fi system so I don’t need the headphone amp or balanced connections on the TT2. I also run a mutec MC3 smart clock in my signal chain which according to other chord electronics owners does such a great job reclocking the signal before going into the dac it turns the m scaler into a side step upgrade. Hence my plan of investing in the TT2 first. Have you tried any reclockers in your system? The mutec is amazing. I will still probably go for the TT2 first but after watching your video, you have made me think about getting the m scaler first. Just like you I came from a Gumby. Thanks for the amazing content, keep it up, and congratulations on the birth of your child!
Thanks Max. That's really interesting about the reclockers. I'm surprised to hear they make a significant difference to the high end Chord gear. I'll have to do some research.
@@sn0w8 Hi, can the mutec be used without a pc? I have a bluesound node 2i streamer and qutest dac.
Passion for Sound I was shocked by the improvement it made. Amazing value for money, and an essential part of my setup now. You can’t go back once you have heard the music stabilized by its master clock. Everything just feels totally locked into place. Once again thanks for the awesome content
Intriguing and very well explained, thank you. This precisely answers a question I’ve had about Hugo 2, which I have, and whether it can be similarly enhanced by M-Scaler. The answer seems a resounding yes, because H2 and Qutest essentially share the same internals. What your video highlights very well for me is how M-Scaler has created a giant gap in the Chord range. It is obviously conceived to mate with TT2 because these two products share the same footprint. However, a smaller - and less expensive! - upscaling device would be the way to go for Hugo 2 / Qutest IMO. I for one would be willing to sacrifice some performance for such a product, and I imagine there’d be many others too.
I agree about the opportunity for a lower priced version and Rob Watts did say once that even a 500,000 tap can make a significant difference so maybe there's a chance? Glad you found the review helpful!
@@PassionforSound That's interesting, here's hoping!
Superb round-up dude
So glad you liked it! 🙂
@@PassionforSound Subbed and going through all your vids this week.
I have a Qutest. Can’t afford a TT2 but can afford a used M Scaler.
Awesome! Thanks for the sub and go for it with the M-Scaler. You can always further upgrade the DAC later if you want to 🙂
What amp are u using with Qutest? I have Burson 3XP would that complement the use case? Better or worse?
I can't recall what I was using back then, but the Soloist 3XP would be a great option! The Rebel Amp is another great choice.
Great video thanks
No sweat, Nick! Glad it was helpful
Hi Lachlan. I have settled on an Enleum 23R ( subject to your upcoming review of their new portable ) and find the TT2 amp unnecessary. I will also be using an MScaler. I will be using single ended and RCA so I do not need XLR. In you opinion and in this set up, is the TT2 a better option than the Qutest? PS: great review as always.
Hi Tom, yes the TT2 is still a major step up from the Qutest. It's a more advanced DAC and also a better output stage. It's also optimised for the single ended (RCA or headphone) outputs so you're not losing anything by not using the XLRs. I have that exact same setup and it's marvellous.
The AMP-23RM is very nice, but the AMP-23R is still clearly better I think (early impressions only)
@@PassionforSound Thanks Lachlan
After seeing this review a couple of weeks ago, I purchased a (black) M Scaler to go with my existing Qutest, and wow, I am thrilled now with my headphone system, which consists of a Windows 10 PC, Roon software, Chord M Scaler, Chord Qutest, Singxer SA-1 Class A headphone amp, and Meze Empyrean headphone. I also have an OPPO BDP-105 playing through digital outputs to the M Scaler. Thanks for your excellent review! By the way, I upgraded the BNC cables connecting M Scaler to Qutest, to a 1.5M pair of WireWorld Starlight 8. Can't say for sure I hear a difference in the BNC cables, but the WireWorld cables look better, and maybe they sound a bit better than the cables supplied with the M Scaler.
It's quite likely you're hearing an improvement from those cables, Robert. My tests with the Wave Hi-Fidelity BNC cables proved to me the importance of the M-Scaler BNC cables.
So glad you're enjoying your setup!
That is one impressive (and expensive) setup!
Sure is. The sound is amazing!
@@PassionforSound Subsequent to my comment above, I replaced the Singxer amp with a Burson Soloist 3X which I like even better than the Singxer. Lachlan, unless I missed it, you didn't say what amp you used with the Qutest. When comparing Qutest + M Scaler to the TT2, wouldn't the amp be a factor?
Good point. I can't remember if I said in the video.
The amp will be a factor in the sense that it will limit maximum performance. I can't recall if I had the Soloist on loan at the time. It was either the Soloist and/or the Bottlehead Mainline - both of which are exceptional amplifiers that almost match the TT2 internal amp so all listening was done feeding RCA from the DACs in the Qutest and TT2 out to one of these amps (or both).
how did you listen to the Qutest for the comparison? did you use the same HP amp to listen to the TT2, or did you use the TT2's built in amp?
I had both devices connected to the Mainline or Sparkos Aries. There's no analogue input on the TT2 unfortunately.
Oh, and both using RCA so the interconnects could be identical
Yes, I know the TT2 has no analogue input, but some could argue that the TT2’s internal headphone amp performance may be better, in some ways, than inserting a pair of interconnects into the chain. The rationale for using the same amp would be valid for speaker-based systems, without doubt. Thoughts?
Oh, definitely! But you're stealing my thunder for the next review 😉😉
Without giving too much away, the reason I had to use the Aries was that the TT2 internal amp gave it too much of an unfair advantage!
Super video! I applauded for $10.00 👏👏👏
Nice. Can I ask you - if the DAC and M-Scaler can't add extra data, because that, as you say, is impossible, how is it that they fill in the gaps between samples, using algorithms? Isn't that also adding data?
No, every DAC on the planet is filling those gaps in a manner of speaking (R2R NOS DACs being the least of these, but the natural rise and fall of voltages will be creating some degree of this I expect).
What the M-Scaler is all about is reconstructing the waveform with greater accuracy.
Amir on Audio Science Review has done some tests and pretty much proven the M-Scaler does absolutely nothing and just adds noise.
You might want to look into that "evidence" a bit more...
Really love your voice - that's musical. Took the route myself. My take - if you have TT2 budget, get TT2, then later M scaler. if your budget for. If your budget is qutest only - good choice but no need for M-Scaler
There is a very clear difference with M scaler + TT2 vs M Scaler + Qutest. Setup Cambridge CXC CD transport => [DAC stack] => First Watt B1 Buffer Pre => FirstWatt F6 => KEF R3. Mid size room (20x18ft)
Thanks for sharing your experiences! Glad you like the sound of my voice 🙂
I have a question, am using Audeze Lcd5 off a Rega Saturn Mk3 as a transport into Mscaler, Qutest and Anni set up.
Am seriously thinking i should buy a TT2.
Is this going to be a good end game move?
I do think so because the TT2 is a big step up from the Qutest and Anni. It won't be quite as smooth sounding though so do take that into account. You'll get more texture, detail, resolution and space in the sound, but it will be a bit less warm/smooth.
@@PassionforSound thanks for answering, i was also talking to "Convince me audio" i watch both of your TH-cams as 2 of the best .
I have a question, the Anni runs hot, even with fan inbuilt.
Im having trouble understanding how the TT2 disipates heat, seems like a sealed box?
Im in Philippines and can buy TT2 for $7,075Aud. (264,640 pesos)
The TT2 is a much larger box with more surface area for dissipation. I think the amp circuit is also quite different too so it might generate less heat.
Question: if the M scaler makes the number of taps that either the Qutest or the Hugo TT 2 or The Dave do irrelevant, what exactly makes those devices with the M scaler better at each tier. For example, why is the Hugo TT2 with the M scaler better than the Cutest with the M scaler?
Good question and something I grappled with a little bit too. Start with the fact that the M-Scaler works 100% in the digital domain so the DAC is still doing all of the D/A converting. Then the key things for the DAC are: quality of power supply and quality of output stage. Ultimately, as I understand it, the DAC stage itself (i.e. where data turns to the analog waveform) isn't so different once the M-Scaler is involved so it becomes about the precision of the circuits around the DAC chip allowing the signal to remain as unaffected by any external interference as possible.
@@PassionforSound Thank you, and I think that makes sense. It’s reasonable to expect that as you go up the Chord DAC range there are higher quality components present and their implementation within the unit does make a difference.
So, the M Scaler makes each tier better, but the M Scaler doesn’t in it of itself make the higher tier DACs irrelevant. ☺️
Spot on 🙂
If you haven't finished these videos yet, could you please look at using the TT2 to drive speakers? There are lots of people talking about that (Rob Watts included) but very little on TH-cam about it.
Hi Daniel, I don't use passive speakers so I can't test it - sorry!
@@PassionforSound no worries, thanks for letting me know
I see you have Beolab 3s. Do you have a review on them?
I don't. I've never taken the time to write/film one.
HALLO BEFORE 10 YEARS I BAYED ADAM TENSOR BETA AND I WORK WITH ANTELOPE ZODIAC GOLD AS DAC PREAMP, CAN I PUT Chord M-Scaler IN MY SYSTEM YOU SUGGEST ME TO BUY, THANKS FROM GREECE SORRY IF I WRITE SOMETHING WRONG
Hi Tolis, the M-Scaler can work with any DAC using a BNC/SPDIF input, but it is limited to 384kHz upscaling. Only Chord DACs can get the maximum 768kHz upscaling.
what filter did you have on the Qutest for the review? this is important.
I use the first filter for all Chord devices I've tried so far.
@@PassionforSound Ah, yes but that's incorrect. For high bitrate music, the last two filters are to be used. It's designed really only for the m-scaler unless you find 768khz files in the wild. Have a read of the chord pamphlet about the filters and you might need to make an addendum to the review.
That's a very good point. I hadn't thought about that factor with the M-Scaler, only with DSD files, but you're right. I'll have a play with the TT2 and see how much difference it really makes.
Agreed OUTSTANDING explanation... I was interested in the TT2 with MSCALER, vs the Dave by itself and those 2 combos were really great but the Dave even by itself is the very best I have heard. I even demoed the DCS Bartok and liked the Dave better mainly because of price. When I tried the Dave MScaler I didn’t like it but then again I really do not think the dealer set it up correctly it sounded hollow and thin. Right now I am in HEAVEN running the Chord Dave > Woo Audio WA33 Elite > Hifiman Susvara’s and all I can say is END GAME
That would be a gorgeous setup! Glad you liked the review. Enjoy your system and the music it reproduces!
Hi Lachlan, It's 29 August. Cannot access your site via YT to view the DAVE review. No problem accessing older videos such as this one. Too many accessing it or something else or an issue here?
Hi Ross, that's definitely strange. When you refer to my site, do you mean the Patreon page or something else?
Hi Lachlan, I'm accessing the DAVE review via TH-cam. Seemingly many people accessing your review at the same time causes a pile-up. I tried to view it (probably) not long after it was uploaded on Saturday. Today, it plays immediately. Great review. Just bought a Qutest for my ancient CDP whose DAC has died. Pretty happy with the result
I've never heard of that happening on TH-cam, but it's nice to know I'm getting enough views to cause problems! 🙂
So glad that you're enjoying your Qutest - they're great DACs
Great video! Is it correct that devices like the m scaler dont really improve the audio, they just make it much easier for the dac to decode the audio, thus getting better sound?
Hi Abel, that's pretty much the explanation. The M-Scaler doesn't add any data, but it provides a better interpreted version of the digital signal to the DAC. I'm actually releasing the M-Scaler review and explanation this weekend.
@@PassionforSound Great! Looking forward to it.
Any thoughts on the M scaler and the Hugo 2 or the Mojo?
I was using m scaler with Mojo while my TT2 was at warranty repair.
Used with coaxial out from m scaler so only 384khz max was available.
And my feeling was similar as using it with tt2, but the effect was of course less pronounced.
Instruments sounded bigger more like diffused, decay was more visible. Layering was improved, definitely an upgrade but for the money not worth for Mojo.
It's better to go for TT2 solo instead m scaler and mojo combo. It will be much better option.
@@IHearEverythingDude that's really interesting thanks for your reply
Thanks Alex for the Mojo experience. The Hugo 2 and Qutest use the same DAC stage so everything I've said for the Qutest sound hold true for the Hugo 2
Can you do a review, where you feed the M Scaler with the lowest quality files and try to listen to what it will sound ? If you keep feeding it high quality files, then it’s differences could not be big.
That's an interesting idea, Ong. I don't know that I can do a full review on it, but I could try it out and report back.
One thing to keep on mind though: the M-Scaler is an upsampled, not a rebuilder. In other words it can't fix music that's been degraded by compression such as low bitrate MP3. It's job is to take say 44.1kHz files and upsample them to 705.6kHz. In my experience with it, it does an outstanding job with all PCM files from 44.1-192kHz. Where it has less impact is on DXD and DSD where the sample rates are already so high.
@@PassionforSound I just wanted to share my experience. I owned chord Dave and M scaler but I was shocked that I didn't enjoy the sound that much. Maybe I had too much expectation but I did like the tt2 and m scaler together. But I felt the sound wasn't clear enough like chord Dave. The m scaler and tt2 sound punchy but it didn't have the clarity like Dave. Dave alone without m scaler sounded better to me and I preferred.
My plan is to use m scaler with another dac. I like clear and punchy sound for headphone. However, I was extremely impressed with audiolab m-dac headphone amplifier. In your opinion do you think I will be happy with m scaler connected with audiolab m-dac, just to get a little punchy sound. I thought the audiolab m-dac was very good for the price.
Thanks again
The 10k set-up you mention does not take account of headphones. Add in a focal utopia for more kick 😅
Very true! In my case it's a pair of Empyreans.
Excellent review and particularly how Qutest and M scaler compare vs. the Hugo TT2. Also, I really enjoyed the four part interview with Rob Watts.
Thanks Ali, glad you liked both the review and interviews!
Why don’t u compare standalone Qutest to Qutest + m scaler? How does this compare?
The M-Scaler review is coming soon, puzzleman. I did these in an unusual order. Probably should have led with the M-Scaler, but needed to sell the Qutest to fund the TT2 purchase.
I've tried to explain exactly what the sound with/without the M-Scaler is like. I've used the TT2 for that comparison, but the Qutest responds identically
Started with Quetest. Then added MScaler. Then added TT2. Now using DAVE with MScaler and Wave Reference cables. Heaven. Piggy bank empty.
I'll bet. It's a slippery slope, isn't it? But so worthwhile when you hear the results!
Is the tt2 better than the Qutest dacwise?
100%
I compared the two in my "Qutest + M-Scaler" review some time ago
Thanks for the comments over on Josh Valour's channel!
So, in return i'd like to suggest 'Meant to be' by Marmozets. I think its a really good test track to see how good at unpacking the layers a system is - its such a busy tune!
Cool. Thanks Matt! I look forward to trying it out.
It would be very interesting to see in comparison what Denafrips Pontus II or Venus II can do.
I hope to get to them this year 🙂
@@PassionforSound Looking forward to it! You're getting very close to that 20K subscribers milestone, well done!
What's the black unit that your keyboard is resting on?
It's an external Blu-ray drive I use for ripping discs to my media drive. Nothing audiophile related 🙂
@@PassionforSound nice, I didn't know you could get that for blu rays
@@goldmember888 yep. Very handy to rip all my CDs, DVDs and Blu-Rays so they're all available on media server software throughout the house
@@PassionforSound definitely. I just recently set up a nas for my music and movies. Can't believe I hadn't done it sooner!
I will add up to the previous comments and confirm your findings, the M Scaler improves over the Qutest alone. It is quite obvious for most CD tracks and HiRes as well.
Thanks Olivier!
Is it worth investing in a Qutest and an MSCaler if your only source is Spotify 320Kps ?
I'd say "no" on that one. It will improve the sound, but it's a lot of money to spend on "low-res" content
@@PassionforSound what streaming service provides the highest resolution ?
Depending on your location there can be a few options, but I find Qobuz the best. Tidal is the other hi res option with a large library, but the quality is variable due to the Master Quality (MQA) content. Deezer is also hi res, but I don't know what the library is like.
@@PassionforSound thank you so much for your answer, i have since upgraded to Audirvana with Qobuz and Tidal and am never looking back !
Great news! Enjoy the music 🙂🙂
Great 👍 👌
Thank you 🙂🙂
You must try Tt2 and m scaler combo. It's even better. I'm waiting for next videos with tt2
Already tried and it really is wow! Just didn't want to give too much away too early 😉
@@PassionforSound yup m scaler is really interesting product. Expensive but it's up to customer to decide. What is interesting is that some tracks doesn't benefit much from m scaler. But from the other side some of the music benefit hugly !
Yes, that's definitely true. Based on what the M-Scaler does, I assume it's about how good the original recording was because the M-Scaler is maximising the reconstruction of the original analogue signals so if those are poor (bad mic placement, poor quality equipment, etc.) then there's nothing that can be done.
@@PassionforSound I remember Rob saying something like everything depends on recording quality, particular about ADC that was used to record/sample recording. Rob said something like modern ADCs capture transients poorly and while transients are captured poorly (aliasing) there is no possibility to reconstruct them from already "broken/corrupted" data.
In theory a red book 16x44.1 audio file is evaluated 44.1 million times per second when using the M Scalar?
Sort of... As I understand it, the M-Scaler applies the filtering algorithm 1,000,000 times for each sample in order to most accurately upsample to the higher rate - essentially adding additional data to help the downstream DAC rebuild a more accurate analog waveform.
I started crying along with your baby right after you said what the cost of these Chord products were 😭
It's like that, isn't it!? 😂😭😂
Sound demo?
Hi TheHope, there's not much point in doing sound demos on YT because what you would hear is determined by the quality of the recording equipment I use and then the quality of the decoder and playback equipment you use. By the time the review equipment is filtered through all those layers, you're not going to be really hearing the product itself.
Nice video, but I can't reconcile the claims about the M Scaler with the Shannon-Nyquist theorem. The pathways of all of the waves are already completely predictable between samples in a 44.1Khz audio file. There is no uncertainty. Obviously that only applies to the frequencies sampled, but those are the only frequencies available to the M Scaler's algorithm when sending a 44.1Khz feed.
Hi Greg, I'm no expert in the technicalities so I'd recommend watching my interview with Rob Watts for a better explanation, but how I understand it is that the Nyquist theorem is able to account for our audible frequency range, but may not precisely capture details that change faster than the sample rate. According to Rob's research and testing, transient and subtle spatial cues require much greater timing accuracy to match our brain's timing resolution (~250kHz IIRC). This brings better timbral and spatial accuracy to the sound both in theory, but also in practice based on my listening tests. So, the upsampling of music by the M-Scaler isn't about frequency response because sampling theory has that part covered. As I said though, best that you check out my interviews with Rob Watts for a thorough explanation.
@@PassionforSound thanks, I'll seek it out. So regarding S-N theorem, what is captured depends on how high the sampling rate goes, so 44.1Khz doesn't capture frequencies higher than 20.05Khz, 48Khz samples up to 24Khz and so on.
I appreciate that there is much discussion around how we might perceive the affects of frequencies our ears can't hear (such as the audible harmonic effects of higher frequencies), but as you said the M Scaler doesn't add information that wasn't captured.
So S-N correctly asserts that the pathway of the soundwaves between contiguous samples A and B are 100% predictable.
It's on that basis that high sampling rates like 96Khz+ don't result in more detail or realism to the audible frequencies captured in 44.1 or 48Khz sampled recording.
Now all of the above is not to suggest that the M Scaler makes no difference, but whatever it's doing doesn't fit with this idea of filling in gaps with more information (if that makes sense)
Btw I don't mean to labour this point, it's just an area I've been interested in for many years since I got on board with SACD
All good. I'm not sure how to clearly explain what its intended to do, but the gist of it is that the exact timing of transients needs to be accurate to about 4 micro seconds (IIRC) in order for our brains to correctly extrapolate the info it takes from transients. Forgetting the actual frequency of the sound, transients can occur at any moment and therefore these cues occur and change at any moment and may fall outside of the sampling process. Sampling theory looks at the recreation of sine waves, not complex and constantly varying musical signals so while it will capture each individual frequency that makes up music, it's timing accuracy on transients is not high enough for absolutely perfect recreation of music. It's close enough at 44.1kHz that we can absolutely enjoy regular sample rates, but the improved transient accuracy created by the M-Scaler is a real phenomenon and a significant improvement.
Interesting video but as someone who hasn't seen your prior videos, and as someone not already familiar with the Chord family of products, I would have benefited greatly if you started the video with a brief introduction of each piece of equipment, what is (DAD, amp, DAC+amd, etc). This would have made the rest of the video more understandable.
Hi Timothy, thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately I have to constantly balance the length of each video because lots of people switch off otherwise ☹️. I think the next video will clarify a bit more for you, but I chose to produce this one first as it made more sense in terms of the potential upgrade steps if someone already has the Qutest.
Did you still need any clarification about the products?
@@PassionforSound Thanks for your reply. Videos that are part of a series need a solid starting point where things are given an overview and context. Often that video is done first and then subsequent videos make a reference to it.
I agree under normal circumstances. If I hadn't already done the Qutest review, that would have been the logical starting point, but I didn't know then that I'd have this opportunity.
my pretendgame is when I pack my 50$ dac/amp in a cardboard box and write the words *YuLong DAART Aquila II* on it
Lol
M Scaler is impressive piece of tech. Now all we need someone to trickle that down to less than 500 Dollars and make it widely available :)
Haha. That would be nice. Not sure how long that will take because of the 1,000,000 taps required. We can all hope though!
Its not a great piece of kit .qutest and tt2 is, but this thinking with m scaler is wrong. I’m going to do a retort to these videos which seem a paid challenge to my videos I did.
I had M scaler on loan from the retailer for 10 days. Using focal Utopia and JH audio 16 drivers professional IEM, frankly couldn’t discern any positive difference in SQ or audio signature over my mytek dac and benchmark hp4 amp system. No way I could justify the $4500 asking price to myself and gladly took the refund. I wonder how many units of m scaler they move in a year. I like chord products esp the qutest but not the M scaler.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Percival. Were you using the M-Scaler with the Qutest or only the mytek and benchmark?
Passion for Sound for critical listening I only use the headphones. I put in many hours of listening to the mscaler paired with my qutest (otherwise used with my 606 series bookshelf B&W speakers) and with my mytek Brooklyn dac+ (with and without the internal headphone amp) and benchmark hpa4 headphone amp. In my personal opinion, I didn’t find a positive difference at all.
@@percival5207 Interesting. To me, the changes are all subtle and relate to the soundstage and character of the individual instruments rather than any major shift in signature or overt clarity. I definitely prefer the sound with the M-Scaler, but I know a number of people that haven't felt like it made a big enough difference to warrant the cost.
Passion for Sound I like your reviews as you present things in a neutral way. Otherwise there are a plethora of chord fanboys out there on TH-cam. Chord qutest is the weakest link in my system and is also overpriced for what it does, but it is well matched with bookshelf speakers, so no complaints.
@@percival5207 its still one of the best Dac's and its from 2017 thats why Chord has a Higher Pricetag.
So it shouldn't matter whether it's a Qutest or a Dave.?
It will do the same job with either, but the higher level DACs will give you more benefits from what the M-Scaler is capable of.
@@PassionforSound it's just that I scored a used Qutest with external LPS for $1100 US, and can yet an MScaler for $3900. And am not sure if there's better upgrade options such as a standalone Holo or Denefrips.
If you already have the Qutest, I'd go with the M-Scaler with the view to upgrading to a TT2 or DAVE one day if you wish. At the prices you're paying, you can always move them on later if you decide on a different direction.
Yay, Amber Rubarth! Glad my recommendation struck a Chord 😂
LOL. Yes it did. I tried another track from the Chesky Binaural Album too, but I couldn't safely pronounce the name! 🤣
@@PassionforSound Can you connect m scaler with huge 2??
Hi cool, yes you can, but you need to get a custom cable made. I think an internet search for "Hugo 2 M-Scaler cables" should point you in the right direction
@@PassionforSound Thank you.
I just wanted to share my experience. I owned chord Dave and M scaler but I was shocked that I didn't enjoy the sound that much. Maybe I had too much expectation but I did like the tt2 and m scaler together. But I felt the sound wasn't clear enough like chord Dave. The m scaler and tt2 sound punchy but it didn't have the clarity like Dave. Dave alone without m scaler sounded better to me and I preferred.
My plan is to use m scaler with another dac. I like clear and punchy sound for headphone. However, I was extremely impressed with audiolab m-dac headphone amplifier. In your opinion do you think I will be happy with m scaler connected with audiolab m-dac, just to get a little punchy sound. I thought the audiolab m-dac was very good for the price.
Thanks again
Is that Keith Jarrett on your shirt??
No, it's actually Freddie Mercury at Live Aid 🙂
@@PassionforSound Ahhh. Yes. Now I see it. Cheers!
It's a Threadheads tee. I've got the Elton John version too 🙂
That looks like a Bottlehead Amp in the background.
It is. Bottlehead Mainline. I've reviewed it here on the channel and interviewed Dan Schmalle (Bottlehead founder) too
You comment on the size of the M-Scaler relative to the DACs it can be used with. Actually, if you were to open it up you would see that it is mostly empty space. Only marketing IMO can account for its exterior size.
Have you opened one?
This should be called the divorce scaler...is it really worth $7.5k for the upgrade I'd get with my qutest?
I hear you! While it's a big price tag, I'm shocked to say that it's a worthy upgrade when compared to the $8,500 TT2. I need to try something like a PS Audio DAC to really see if the Qutest+M-Scaler combo is worth the extra... (5000 vs 10000 or there abouts)
@@PassionforSound τhat would be a good test! I've heard the ps audio dac is very good aslo.
@@PassionforSound Lachlan is there an a/b option on the m scaler remote where you can by pass the m scaler so that I can hear just from the qutest?
The closest you can get is the bypass option by pressing the OP SR (output sample rate) button - not sure how it's labelled on the remote. However, bypassing upscaling doesn't completely remove the M-Scaler as I believe it still re-clocks the signal.
No
Qutest with m scaler is not a good looking combination. Qutest would be far more attractive proposition with a better design (compatible with m scaler), xlr outputs, a porthole display and a better power supply. Can you give Rob a nudge...!
Haha. Not sure I have that much influence, but I definitely agree about the aesthetics.
@@PassionforSound Oh I don't know about that - Rob was happy to spend a couple of hours talking to you from his sofa at home at Christmas time. He likes you better than spending time with family!
I would love XLR balanced output. I don't even know whether the analog stage design allows it.
A lot of effort has been made in reducing noise. If this can be done in the path to the amp via balanced connection it would be a lovely idea.
Hopefully a bit of gain control for amp matching (even if it's a three way setting) may happen in the future
The Qutest has the essential functionality of a Chord product at a "not so basic" price point. A cost increase would mean a higher final price. And Chord is a boutique company that does not flood the market with gear. But a "minority" product can gain broad acceptance if properly priced (witness the unexpected RME ADI-2 boom)
Balanced outputs aren't inherently better than RCA. They can help eliminate ground loops and environmental noise, but RCA has its own benefits when well implemented as it is in the Qutest.
I can't recall now how it's done, but I'm pretty sure you can also change the output voltage (gain) by holding certain buttons when you switch the Qutest on
TT2 + Ms = I won’t eat for 6 months! 🙄
Yeah, it's like that! 🙂
let's put the m-scaler combo in a blind test with the qutest alone. the m-scaler is synthesizing data, so whatever it is doing sound wise, involves things that are not in fact contained in the recording. an expensive novelty for people with money to burn...
Please take a look at my interview with Rob Watts for a thorough explanation of how the M-Scaler improves transient timing accuracy and doesn't add or synthesise anything. I may have misrepresented it in my choice of words in this review, but there's no addition or subtraction, just higher timing accuracy
@@PassionforSound i will watch that interview. so the output of the mscaler is RBCD, just like the input? seems odd you need twin BNC connectors for a RBCD data stream. also, why not have someone help you set up a simple A/B test, with you as the subject, and really see what the mscaler does (that can be heard)?
No, it's outputting high sample rate PCM (up to 768kHz depending on input rate) and that's why the dual BNCs.
As for blind testing, some things are subtle enough that blind testing is necessary to separate placebo and bias from reality, but the M-Scaler is much more obvious than that.
You say, " . . and that's the sort of detail that gets missed by the digital samples." Sorry, sir, but there is no audio information at all except that which is contained in the digital samples. An explanation built upon that foundation cannot go anywhere. In any event, though upscaling can be done well in hardware, it can also be done well in software. IMO an expensive DAC that requires an expensive hardware upscaler to sound its best is a DAC I would avoid. One can do far better in sound quality for less money than is provided by these combinations.
Hi Lenny, can I recommend watching my interview with Rob Watts? He provides excellent explanations about how the traditional approaches using lower tap numbers can't reproduce the transient timing as accurately as our brain requires. I probably shouldn't have said that anything gets missed by digital samples because it's more about making the timing more accurate on the transients. Rob explains this (and the theory and data behind it) very comprehensively in the interview.
Finally, the TT2 is still an outstanding DAC without the M-Scaler and outperforms anything else I've tried so far. The M-Scaler just happens to make it (and every other DAC I've used it with) better.
@@PassionforSound You seem to say that there is something missing in the digital samples, inferring that the M-Scaler needs to add something. But the sound cannot come from anywhere else than the samples. The bottom line is sound. Rob is not exactly a disinterested spectator. A respected internet reviewer finds better sound quality than the DAVE plus M-Scaler for far less than half the price. I believe it can be, and has, been done for still less, much less. But I'm not here to sell anything.
Hi Lenny, I clearly explained in my previous post that I shouldn't have worded my explanation as adding something and I also clearly said that Rob Watts explains the theory behind the M-Scaler (i.e. not his opinion, but a mathematically provable concept).
I watched this all the way through and I’ve tried all three, some on more than one occasion. I own Qutest. I asked if you’d been paid by chord on another film - no answer. This video seems to be a direct retort to my films that the Qutest with the m scaler is not value. I agree it doesn’t change the tonality or characteristics of the dac. Undeniably more space with m scaler but there is more to Audio then space. Warmth is more in Tt2 alone. You state the m scaler and Qutest is better but to use the m scaler taps as a reason to make the m scaler improved over Tt2 is rubbish, when you correctly refer to dac and upscaler as doing different jobs. The m scaler taps amount doesn’t Make the m scaler better with Qutest than tt2 alone, because m scaler works as an upscaler and the others a dac. You pulled wool over eyes with that one. I’m sorry but this is a shilling video where chord have tried to correct the issues of my videos and where you are never going to say less money is more. The tier thing at the end is total rubbish. I’m going to do a video retort to this,,as you are just saying this to be paid.
Hi 13th Note, I purchased the Chord Qutest and have since bought and sold a Chord Mojo (which was good, but not great IMO). I've recently sold the Chord Qutest and a heap of other gear to fund the purchase of the TT2 and M-Scaler as ex-demo items. There is absolutely no paid advertising on this channel. If there is in the future it will be disclosed.
Passion for Sound ok thanks for saying. I still don’t think you can do reviewing where you pick the DACs you like and say or imply they are the best, by virtue of picking them, as what people might think you are doing is fairly picking products because you like them. I love the tt2 but I cannot say it’s better then the ps audio DirectStream sound wise and as a HiFi dac, even though I prefer the chord. This is because they each do their own thing equally well. Pretty easy to tell. If one is well off the pace then it can be preferred. That’s the basis for reviewing otherwise products get rated because people prefer them when others might not.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on that one. I'm very comfortable saying if two products are basically indistinguishable or equally as enjoyable (I've just reviewed the Topping D90 today and in comparison with the Denafrips Ares II I find them to be different but comparable soundwise). However, most people who comment or message me ask the question "which is better than which?" so I'm answering that question while always clearly stating that it's based on my perception and preferences.
I think it's best if you stick to reviewing your way and I'll stick to mine. I welcome your comments, but would appreciate you holding back on critiquing my approach just as I would not question yours.
Passion for Sound they think it’s an empirical thing without preference because a lot of the time you don’t make it clear. Reviewing isn’t for you and what you like, but for others.
Every little bit of information counts to form a clearer picture in our minds. This series clears up many questions and raises others, which must be answered in turn.
Watts makes a very interesting case, and being quite frank and open about it helps a lot. We may agree or disagree about the importance of milliseconds, but this can only be truly answered by neurological research. In the mean time we can opt in or out of the concept, but it is there to see.
My main question would be if instrument separation and therefore quality orchestral music relies so heavily on the time factor, shouldn't the process start AT THE SOURCE, the recording and mastering point? It is the final wall to be torn down between "authentic, analog" music and its faithful capture by quantizing means (i.e. digitizing).
If we have a limited number of sampling points upsampling is going to make interpolation easier, but will it be more accurate? And HOW? After all, this is a "fill in the blanks" situation. Faithful decoding depending on successful antialiasing hinges on the number of sampling points at the source. All we can do is to optimize the reconstruction of all the information defined by those points. But we can't put back what isn't there.
Some decoders (i.e resistor ladder) blur or "fuzz" the resulting trace, but that's because they struggle to reach 16 bit resolution. They are rather rudimentary devices. A clever child could understand how they work. People who listen to and enjoy them are listening to the dac's imperfect rendering and liking it. It IS pleasant, but not at all accurate and not "the real thing" (let's leave out room acoustics and other obvious variables)
There are very few concert halls. And very few audiophiles regularly listen to live symphony orchestras. (Try it. At least once. It is a real eye opener. This IS "the real thing") The "captured and rendered" version may be pleasing, but it is not even close to the complexity of "the real thing".
People like Watts who openly recognize this fact and the gaps in our knowledge such as instrument separation (and how they attempt to address them) are quite admirable in their intellectual and technical honesty.
There was no crowd in the AB recording. No credibility.
I don't understand what you mean. Which AB recording?