As a fellow vertically challenged male (5'4), this is humbling and also gratifying. Most of the ppl i spar or fight are a lot taller than me too. I get to see bits and pieces of knowledge i can take and apply to myself.
"Does size really matter" *Proceeds to spar with a WORLD CLASS SUMO COMPETITOR/BLACK BELT and UNDEFEATED PRO KICKBOXER/UFC COMPETITOR* Dude... don't sell yourself short! 🤣
well in vale tudo japan 1995, which is available in youtube the fighter yuki nakai won almost the championship wth kevins weight and japanese shooto which kevin choose too.
Skill can overcome size, but if the opponent is also similairily skilled, that is negated. Then you're left with only the size disadvantage. Size matters.
Size matters, but skill matters more, and ferocity matters more than that. Size is one of the LEAST significant factors, but it is such an obvious factor that when a more ferocious guy beats a smaller guy, everybody says, "Ah, the big guy won because he was big. Size matters." In reality, it had more to do with the big guy being MEAN and the small guy being SCARED, but those things aren't so obvious to the eye. Size gets too much blame and too much credit.
@@DesiRush1only person to win a fight by being mean is Conor mcgregor. When he pissed of Aldo so much that he knocked him out in 2 punches because the guy was stiff and angry / trying to be mean. So in reality being mean has absolutely nothing to do with a fight you just gotta be tough mean will lose you a fight smart calm and tough you’ll win everytime
I'd add athleticism to the equation as well. Someone who's much more athletic, has the size advantage and less training can also pose a serious threat to a highly technical and trained person
If you want to test whether you can overcome size and power with superior skill and strategy, Stephen Thompson doesn't seem like the larger opponent to match up against.
When Mr. Lee was landing kicks, and they were just bouncing off, and he started laughing as he realized he was having no effect, I honestly gained respect for him and his character. He had a great sense of humor as he failed miserably. But the best part of the video? "How are you here?" Lol. Epic.
In the real world, a smaller guy needs to be vicious and go for throat, temples, back of neck, side of neck, eyeballs, groin, collarbones, etc. Biting, scratching, stomping knees obliquely and as hard as possible, etc. Hard kicks, punches, or elbows to the shin can also work. Bear in mind that there can be legal problems afterward. Or, you can also cause your opponent to try to kill you as opposed to just beating you up. What might not work is all the stuff you use in regular sparring.
In real life, eyes/knees/spine are legal targets, small joint manipulation is legal, spitting and biting are legal, there are physical objects everywhere, and anything within reach can be used as a weapon. This was competition. Great illustration of strenght/skill dynamics. But real life has no rules. If a big dude comes after you, if you throw the rules out you WILL end him.
To the two commenters above me... The thing is that all those same targets are available to the big guy. And if the bigger, stronger guy is able to get to superior/dominant positions on you by virtue of their physicality or superior grappling skills, then who do you think is going to be in a better position to exploit that lack of rules or "vulnerable targets"?
I'll have to agree with Seth and a few of the comments; attacking the legs and staying away from the upper body is your best shot. The only inherent disadvantage size has is that a given movement requires more energy. Size doesn’t explicitly slow you down, but the amount of speed a smaller guy gets out of spending X energy requires the bigger guy to expend X + Y energy, so they need to burn fuel to keep up. What's more, your ability to distribute heat generally goes down as you increase in size, so this contributes even more to fatigue. Chopping the base and landing body shots where you can get them is your best bet, eat the gas tank. Very hard with very short fights. And mind that the big guy is probably going to be confident in his size, and move with linear forward movements, while you might have to use retreating circular movements to stay out of danger until the fatigue sets in-but retreating circular movements are more fatiguing, so tiring them out before you exhaust yourself won't be all that easy. It's a tough proposition, at least if the bigger fighter has any degree of skill that warrants some respect.
most gun fights in the street happen at very close distance, unless you are fighting in a war. size isnt much of a factor in the majority of civilian gunfights.
So I have always been 180-200, so not a small guy but not a huge guy. I have trained with a lot of people bigger and smaller then me. I think a huge factor here is that they were only sparing at like half speed where brute force is just not a factor, I think weight would really play more of a role at a competitive pace. Especially if you go in with a plan anything can be overcome but 100% size matters. I do agree with Wonderboy that for IRL situations where smaller people tend to have better cardio then "big" people then being a smaller person could be positive in a fight.
Tbf, in the kickboxing match, I'm pretty sure Seth could have ended it with a few powerful hits if he wanted to. By holding back so much, that negated a lot of the advantages size gives.
"was that a tap??" "no!! that was a hit!!" so funny and impressive, thank you kevin and wonderboy and seth! loved too see how respecful a fight/sparring could be, if there are a big gap between the skills.
This safe and stress-less environment for both the viewer and the fighter seem very joyful, fun and instructive. And you get to see some very clean martial arts techniques. Great video! Thanks for creating and sharing!
To add to what Wonderboy said at 7:24 about waging a war of attrition, that's a strategy I've used against people who seemed heavier and stronger than me. Especially if the fight was unplanned and their adrenaline is going, it can be really easy to bait them into gassing themselves out tryna chase you down. My background is mostly in parkour and free-running, so I figure that's why the strategy has been generally effective. Sometimes I been mean with it too lmao, and made them chase me up and down stairs or around obstacles. Like you want this fight bruh? You gonna have to sweat for it 😂😂😂
Wonderboy is a great dude. It shows what a difference pro level fighters are at, even against someone who is trained in martial arts. This is like child’s play for him, but because he’s a good guy he didn’t throw any nasty stuff, even though he easily could’ve done. Good video, I enjoyed it!
As someone of a average build in a lighter division I always thought that size does matter but it can be overcome. But I think I underestimated how hard it is to overcome it.
Two points: 1. I start watching to get some motivation to get back in the gym after Covid has kicked my butt for almost a month (I still feel like crap). What's the first thing I see? Kevin's ad for a massive recliner! The last thing I need. LOL😂 2. Re: size vs skill, I think skill can overcome size if the small guy is A LOT more skilled than the bigger guy. I know this from being on the wrong side of the skill equation. My first instructor in kickboxing was a lot smaller than me, but if he wanted, he could easily kick my butt in any match. Every time, boom, kick to the head I never saw coming, usually as a reminder to keep my hands up. Never hurt me, but I know he could if he wanted.
Even Gracie Jiu Jitsu -- known for popularizing the smaller guy having a chance against a bigger guy -- has the Boyd Belts. For every 20 lbs. or 10 years age difference, that's a belt level.
this was a really fun watch... never seen your channel before, no idea who you are. I DO know who wonderboy is. But, seriously, I enjoyed everything about this video, the insights, the playful banter... just a very well done video. Thank you.
In sparring the small person is going to lose a lot more than they win against the bigger fighter because you can't really use the techniques that cause actual bodily harm. Also the truth is that the shorter fighter has to be exponentially more skilled to beat the bigger fighter. In a no rules fight, if you are chest to chest or back to back with the bigger guy, you are either badly injured or dead because all they have to do is full body weight slam you. BJJ works for smaller people because of the rule set and it only really worked in the early days because of the skill deficit. Though I think if a small person is in a fight with a bigger person where you can hurt them, going for the knee and the liver are your best bet. Because you are shorter, all you have to do is get the bigger fighter to raise their arms up even a little, often it works best if the bigger fighter grabs you because they aren't expecting the power a shorter person can throw into that liver and it doesn't take that much. I had someone move wrong during sparring and they caught my knee nowhere near full power to their liver and they folded up, the irony was that we weren't even wrestling or empty handed, we were doing swordsmanship, which is why the way they moved was so unexpected I also think that one of the greatest things a fighter can do is controlled exhaustion training. Get to a point where you are physically exhausted and then learn how to push through to keep fighting, how to draw on your reserves and keep your focus. Great for sparring, super important for real world situations. Overall you did really well considering that your MMA round was against an actual MMA champion, even being kind and going light, that's pretty damned impressive. I think your strategy with Seth was smart, keeping on him doggedly and forcing him to react. I think you played too much into his strength with the way you were occasionally trying to grapple. To cut down a tree you have to hit it low down, same thing when fighting bigger guys. Maybe focus more on your speed and being more aggressive to throw them off balance.
I served in the Marine Corps with a Mexican from California. He was maybe 5'3" and a former professional boxer and studied Filipino martial arts. He was amazingly quick. He could move in find holes and give multiple quick powerful jabs within seconds.
Speed , surprise, violence of action, if you can create all three at the same time as a small guy you have a chance, but not in the ring or mat against a prepared opponent. On the street it’s is viable assuming you are willing to do what ever it takes to win, because it’s a life or death situation. If it’s just an ego thing walk away. Also use of your environment, walls, corners, poor footing conditions, lighting conditions can all be advantageous something most formal martial arts do not consider.
@ yes but I find bigger guys tend to underestimate people smaller than themselves and aren’t looking for an advantage as they already think they have one. I tend to be wary of small guys and goaltenders, because they both tend to be nuts.
Dude, Kevin's Kickboxing and BJJ are so slick. He's super humble to do a video like this. I hope it really comes through that Seth and Steven's advice is for small people, not Kevin specifically. I think its so cool that Varga and Thompson both comend your kickboxing, I hope that means more to you than some of the people here saying you, "lost". Also, all I heard from Seth at the end is that you are going to come out with a Leg Attack video. You way you go for leg submissions is cool! Awesome content as always!
Amazing video! Before that video there were only videos of extremely skilled short fighters gains big dudes who dont know even how to stand in a fight. One of a kind video!
Just a wealth of info, while you're also having fun. Great job man! I noticed I wasn't subbed for some reason, and that has been fixed! Thank you for your effort!
For a smaller guy fighting a grappling opponent, it's simple. Pick a limb, and commit to it fully. You're almost never going to be able to out power the bigger guy. Trying to do so will get you tossed like a Frisbee. The first and second rounds were a great example of that full dynamic. Ken Shamrock was a master of it. If you're both basically sitting face to face, and you have one of his ankles under your arm, you've completely negated their height and weight advantage. Grapevine your legs around theirs, work an ankle lock, heel hook, or even a knee bar. They can't punch you, they can't kick you. The only thing they can do is try to out-technique you.
I think the discussion at the end of elongating bones was a bit weird, but … that’s how palate stretchers work. They make micro fractures in the hard palate, then let it heal while being held apart, then make more fractures and let THOSE heal … rinse and repeat. Not the most comfortable experience, but it does work. Not sure I’d sign up to do that to my legs, though …
Something I loved about the grappling part as it shuts down all those: „Ouh in an real fight big guy just stands up and slams you on concrete“, even though Seth stood up and simulated smashing Kevin on the ground it didn‘t feel as powerfull?! Idk only these 2 know how powerfull it could have been as well as everyone sparring in mixed weight classes in training ^^
Having done rounds of hard sparring with guys that had 40 to 50 lbs over me, when I was preping for my fights. You have to tire them up, no way you can win when they're fresh. They just have to step on the gas and clip you once, while you have to work twice as hard, survive the storm and takeover.
Your summary reminds me of fight from Bruce Lee’s movie, Game of Death. Kareem Abdul Jabbar was far taller and heavier. Bruce’s character attempted to wear him down to mitigate the size difference.
hey when you edit these videos you can stabilize them. just make sure that you are taking slight wider shots so the stabilizer can shave off a bit. take care!
It's not just heavier in this case. Wonderboy has so much reach compared to Kevin. Kudos to Wonderboy too for his ground work, because that's not his strength but he defended and dominated with it. There are levels to this. Going against an elite MMA fighter must be quite the challenge and very good way to learn! Such a good video! That humility is inspiring.
The reason for sports to have categories is for fairnes in SPORTS. Traditional martial arts have weak spots attacks, "dirty" techniques and tactics precisely for leverage. My FMA teacher Francisco Bello always says, everything is leverage, in order to win you have to have technical superiority, physical superiority or tactical superiority, even better a mixture of them... If you don't have leverage weight, height, strength, raw power will be an issue
Do not plan on using the "weak spots". They are not that weak. A lot of them is almost impossible to exploit. Things like eyes, throat, spine, temple, groin. Target is too mobile to hit those consistently. The bigger you are, the harder your chin is (more mass to absorb). It is not a switch. A more consistent target is the liver and kidney, but.. so are yours. Size can compensate a lot of skill and speed difference.
@@nagyzoliexplain to me why Bruce Lee drilled thousands of repetitions per week of eye jabs, low side kicks to the knee, groin, moving targets, sparring on live training partners, put hundreds upon hundreds, even thousands of hours into training to hit primary targets/vulnerable targets? You know Bruce Lee could hit these so called “impossible” targets at will, and you know why? Because he trained to do it. He put the time in. Why can’t you? Why do all you guys dismiss these techniques which are well known fight enders and if you have the ability to intercept someone and close the gap fast, something he also trained fanatically, you can even prevent a fight from happening to begin with. You guys have the wrong mindset and approach to all this stuff. There is no other way to stop a guy much bigger than you in his tracks without this approach. Your eyes, throat, groin are banned in sport for a reason. Too much time complaining the targets are “too small” and not enough time actually training to hit the targets. Stop saying it “can’t be done” and start training it. My advice, train for reality, not sport. You don’t need to hit the groin or the eye “consistently” it’s one and done. Try flicking your own balls and see how that feels. Ever poked yourself in the eye? Come on man, let’s be realistic here. These targets are banned in sport for a reason.
@@Origin_Spheresure, but when you specialise you will always have the upper hand. This internet nonsense of “I’ll just walk through having someone’s fingers shoved in my eyes” or “I’ll just walk through getting my nuts kicked” is complete fantasy nonsense. These techniques absolutely are fight enders and can even prevent a fight from happening to begin with. I don’t expect you to understand this, most don’t. This is a self protection mindset, a different approach to unarmed combat. Prevention is always better. You cannot fight larger people in a normal way. It’s about keeping yourself safe and ending it as soon as possible and the only real way of doing this is attacking the eyes, groin, throat, knees. There is no other way to stop someone in their tracks unless you have a weapon. Too much sport nonsense has brainwashed people about the reality of self defence and how dangerous it is. You ought to be training to stop any man of any size as soon as you can and trying to keep your sled safe in the process with good distance control and timing, if you aren’t you are wasting your time.
Skill is a size multiplier. Something my instructor said to me 35years ago. Also. Its cool to see how good WBs ground game a actually is vs non top 1% grapplers :) Fun session and love how much control everyone was!
I feel like the big guy versus small guy debate is fairly straightforward. If the big guy is skilled similarly to the small guy then it won't be a fair fight. However, I also think that a smaller opponent can overcome a larger opponent, even when both have similar skills, if the smaller opponent forces the larger to fight 'his' fight. Staying outside, working counter hits, forcing the bigger guy to chase them down and constantly attacking the lower limbs and feinting and evading. If you can do this long enough the tide may turn in your favor. But, then again if the big guy knows how to counter this and fights smart? You should run.
Of course size makes a difference, but size, strength, and weight are only 3 elements of the physical aspect of combat among a lot of others like speed, endurance, coordination, resilience, cardio, focus, flexibity, agility, etc. Fundamentally, combat is about control, and control is ultimately always physical in the end. The physical aspect of combat is the building block upon which everything sits, but it's what you do with it that matters. That's the technical aspect, the methods you employ. For those to work at all, and fulfill the real fundamental goal of combat, which is control, it's the tactical aspect that will define what's going to actually happen when applying those methods (techniques). Things like management of distance, timing, balance, pressure. They make or break a situation. Physical, technical, tactical. The 3 fundamental aspects of combat. Can't disregard any of them. You have to dominate in at least 2 of the 3 to have an advantage, but it remains only a question of odds playing against you or not towards your ability to be in control of what's physically happening.
My pre-watch hypothesis: No. You may be able to show that a significant enough skill advantage can make up for some size, but size is still hugely relevant.
After watching: You didn't take "the chubby surprise" into account in the kickboxing round. Seth isn't just a big man. He's a very fast, very flexible big man. All of the info at the end was brilliant. Seth gave away the ultimate big guy secret, though. We'd rather you take our back than ankle or knee because if you have our back, we can just stand up, jump, and fall on you. It's especially true for those of us who aren't as bendy as Seth.
Very interesting to see a much bigger guy that knows a bit of grappling being lost in wrestling/grappling fighting to a tiny guy that knows a lot. I thought that weight/muscles/other martial arts experience would be a bigger advantage. Thanks for the show.
Same style, same skill level, size will determine the winner. In any other situation, the results will depend on the situation. In general, a more skilled smaller person will win against a bigger less skilled person. That's common sense.
@ Yes. do you think the eyeballs, ear drums, nose bridge, throat of a 300 lbs is somehow magically more durable than the 100 lbs guy’s? Skills and knowledge will win over size 99% of the time if the bigger guy is not skilled. Are you imagining perhaps a scene where some tiny gung fu master is going to try to punch a 300 lbs guy in the jaw or stomach? If so, you are severely misunderstanding actual combat skills and knowledge. No skilled and knowledgeable fighter would waste his time trying to out punch a bigger opponent. The great equalizer- soft targets - end of story for the giant unskilled opponent. if you even accidentally lightly brushed the eye lens of anyone no matter the size - that person will 100% react and recoil… in that time three other weak points should have been destroyed.
My senior JJJ student only beat me once when we were rolling "to win" (he caught me in a guillotine on the way to the ground and then wrapped my legs), but would cut through the other guys in the club with ease. His "excuse" was always "A good big un will always beat a good little un", and he was right. Latter, I got to roll with some high level Judo and Sambo guys and although they were lighter than me, I got ragdolled until I functionalised what I know in a sporting context. They were way more skilled than me on the ground, but I eventually got up to about 50:50 wins against a guy who was 40lbs lighter than me. Size wins, but speed and technique levels the table.
Enjoyed the video, although a silly concept. No one would ever argue whether size makes a difference or not, the argument is generally whether size trumps skill (a big guy with no experience versus a skilled smaller guy) and the answer to that is no, that at least 90% of the time skill will trump size. When both the smaller and bigger guys are well trained, then the answer is sort of obvious, and depending how big of a size and skill gap will determine how big of percentage change. If there's a big size difference between the skilled guys you could argue that the bigger guy would win 90% of the time
In this situation, within the rules/ring when both fighters have the same 'tools' and the only difference is size, then YES it will matter. With no rules, if you used something the other person wasn't used to fighting i.e. able to use your wing chun expertise, then may have some kind of chance but of course it wiould be better to use your speed to run away.
I think height and reach matter more than pure weight. A large part of it is also that generally the techniques you learn are built around fighting someone of similar size. If we developed techniques specifically around fighting someone smaller/larger than you, the results may differ. We have weight classes for a reason, but we could probably develop a better system using height, reach, weight that would ensure a more fair test of skill. As it is, weight and gender classifications are pretty limiting and I'm not fond of em.
I used to tell students that size doesn't matter, until it does. Also that everyone does what they can best. If you're equally skilled and someone is twice your size you aren't going to do too well. Nor if you think just because you train that someone doesn't have a stronger will to survive
I think strength is more important than size. Mass moves mass, so they go together, but I've wrestled people that I had 40 pounds on but were crazy strong (planche push-up, one arm pull up strong) and i felt no advantage. Don't fear size, fear strength.
6:14 that’s not the only thing you eat a lot of 😂😂😂 Just a friendly joke, I think you are pretty good. I actually consider trying Sumo wrestling from the video you showed before.
To take on Bigger Opponents with more Reach and Heavier than you: You have to have better Cardio, You Should Not Confront them Head On (they can easily reach, punch, grab and kick you!!); Kick their lower legs to keep them away from you and use that to distract your opponent; Always circle around both ways to attack them from the side so they cant fight you head on, and never let them grab you or you'll get thrown around like a rag doll and get punched in the head after the body shots when slammed into a corner; Need A Super High Level of Jiu Jitsu Skills if you get grabbed and taken down to the Ground (ie BJJ vs Body Builder video). Thanks for experimenting to help everyone learn to Level Up and recording the video for us!!
no, you can't. Because it absolutely matters, there is no debate for around 100 years. Size = reach and you would need a ridiculous amount of speed advantage to even the odds. If you were an active fighter in training put against a hobbyist- then the athletic difference could even the odds (not to mention skill advantage). In boxing I sparred guys 8 weight classes below me. Sure, they were much faster, some had comparable or longer reach than I did. But they quickly realized 2 things: 1. Hand/arm speed is highly unrelated to body weight. While the difference is visible- it's not great enough to factor much in trying to in&out a heavier guy. 2. Lighter guy needs to land a well sitting strike to win or land multiple blows. Heavier guy just needs to land one. Sometimes you can stagger the guy just by hitting his guard. 5-10 kg muscle absolutely makes a difference. More extreme example- in kyokushin karate we often spar with 13-15yo kids who are old enough to join adult classes. We obviously don't go hard against them, but we let them go as hard as they want on us. When I'm nearly 3 times heavier than them- their blows feel like mosquito bites, maybe even less. And I'm a total softie, the worst kyokushin karateka in 5 km radius usually.
What do you think?
As a fellow vertically challenged male (5'4), this is humbling and also gratifying. Most of the ppl i spar or fight are a lot taller than me too.
I get to see bits and pieces of knowledge i can take and apply to myself.
Does size matter? Absolutely not! We all like different sizes. I like them small but I see you like them huge
You lost Kevin but this was a nice spar . Size does matter , it depends what you do to equalise
I don’t think you were aggressive enough in sparring! Another opponent for the larger men could have knocked them out. Nice video irrespective though
You didn't pick ANY heavier sparring partners tho... they both would smash 90% (95% in Wonderboy's case) of the population without breaking a sweat.
"Does size really matter"
*Proceeds to spar with a WORLD CLASS SUMO COMPETITOR/BLACK BELT and UNDEFEATED PRO KICKBOXER/UFC COMPETITOR*
Dude... don't sell yourself short! 🤣
I know…what was I thinking? 😂
Right? We need to take this experiment to streetbeefs.
@@KevinLeeVlog yeah they don't have just weight advantage here ^^
well in vale tudo japan 1995, which is available in youtube the fighter yuki nakai won almost the championship wth kevins weight and japanese shooto which kevin choose too.
Bruce Lee sparred with pro’s who were bigger and taller all the time. Didn’t have any problem with them 🤷♂️
Is size and power the absolute deciding factor in a fight? No.
Does it matter? Yes. A hell of a lot.
@prepped8551. Absolutely! Especially in a street fight where self defense IQ & speed takes priority.
Yes its a factor.
Skill can overcome size, but if the opponent is also similairily skilled, that is negated. Then you're left with only the size disadvantage. Size matters.
Size matters. Thats why we invented weapons to compensate for that.
I was thinking the same thing. He should have gone up against two big, but untrained guys
Size matters, but skill matters more, and ferocity matters more than that. Size is one of the LEAST significant factors, but it is such an obvious factor that when a more ferocious guy beats a smaller guy, everybody says, "Ah, the big guy won because he was big. Size matters." In reality, it had more to do with the big guy being MEAN and the small guy being SCARED, but those things aren't so obvious to the eye. Size gets too much blame and too much credit.
@@DesiRush1only person to win a fight by being mean is Conor mcgregor. When he pissed of Aldo so much that he knocked him out in 2 punches because the guy was stiff and angry / trying to be mean. So in reality being mean has absolutely nothing to do with a fight you just gotta be tough mean will lose you a fight smart calm and tough you’ll win everytime
I'd add athleticism to the equation as well. Someone who's much more athletic, has the size advantage and less training can also pose a serious threat to a highly technical and trained person
If you want to test whether you can overcome size and power with superior skill and strategy, Stephen Thompson doesn't seem like the larger opponent to match up against.
He is relatively larger
You wanna fight wonderboy ??
He’s got about 50 lbs on Kevin. Thats a significant size difference.
@@ThatJamesGuy88i think he's saying that Wonderboy has more advantages than just his size he's just as smart and skillfully as Kevin lee if not more
What he’s wonder boy.😮
Bro is up against two very skilled men xD
When Mr. Lee was landing kicks, and they were just bouncing off, and he started laughing as he realized he was having no effect, I honestly gained respect for him and his character. He had a great sense of humor as he failed miserably. But the best part of the video? "How are you here?" Lol. Epic.
Seeing Sensei Seth's last name feels as weird as that one time as a kid when you hear someone say your parent's real name
In the real world, a smaller guy needs to be vicious and go for throat, temples, back of neck, side of neck, eyeballs, groin, collarbones, etc. Biting, scratching, stomping knees obliquely and as hard as possible, etc. Hard kicks, punches, or elbows to the shin can also work. Bear in mind that there can be legal problems afterward. Or, you can also cause your opponent to try to kill you as opposed to just beating you up.
What might not work is all the stuff you use in regular sparring.
11:03 my worst fear - that some bigger dude is gonna suplex me right into concrete. In real life Kevin would be toast here.
If you are glued to him like the dagestani do you have a chance
Distance and timing, attack primary (vulnerable) targets, forget all this grappling nonsense.
In real life, eyes/knees/spine are legal targets, small joint manipulation is legal, spitting and biting are legal, there are physical objects everywhere, and anything within reach can be used as a weapon.
This was competition. Great illustration of strenght/skill dynamics. But real life has no rules.
If a big dude comes after you, if you throw the rules out you WILL end him.
To the two commenters above me...
The thing is that all those same targets are available to the big guy. And if the bigger, stronger guy is able to get to superior/dominant positions on you by virtue of their physicality or superior grappling skills, then who do you think is going to be in a better position to exploit that lack of rules or "vulnerable targets"?
To be fair, in real life, Kevin wouldn't have let go of the heel hook after a tap, and have crippled the other guy first.
Older sibling vs. Younger sibling energy
I'll have to agree with Seth and a few of the comments; attacking the legs and staying away from the upper body is your best shot.
The only inherent disadvantage size has is that a given movement requires more energy. Size doesn’t explicitly slow you down, but the amount of speed a smaller guy gets out of spending X energy requires the bigger guy to expend X + Y energy, so they need to burn fuel to keep up.
What's more, your ability to distribute heat generally goes down as you increase in size, so this contributes even more to fatigue.
Chopping the base and landing body shots where you can get them is your best bet, eat the gas tank. Very hard with very short fights.
And mind that the big guy is probably going to be confident in his size, and move with linear forward movements, while you might have to use retreating circular movements to stay out of danger until the fatigue sets in-but retreating circular movements are more fatiguing, so tiring them out before you exhaust yourself won't be all that easy.
It's a tough proposition, at least if the bigger fighter has any degree of skill that warrants some respect.
Your collab videos with other martial arts youtubers are always so good!!
Seth: “I’m just gonna jab and side kick and keep him away from me”
*Proceeds to hunt you down and close the distance himself*
I've been telling everyone that he's a great striker. Noone believed
@ i personally believe if seth trained to fight professionally from even like 20-25 years old he could be near the top of any organisation.
Skill can overcome brute force, but of course size matters. Even in a gunfight, the bigger guy, all of a sudden becomes a bigger target.
most gun fights in the street happen at very close distance, unless you are fighting in a war. size isnt much of a factor in the majority of civilian gunfights.
So I have always been 180-200, so not a small guy but not a huge guy. I have trained with a lot of people bigger and smaller then me. I think a huge factor here is that they were only sparing at like half speed where brute force is just not a factor, I think weight would really play more of a role at a competitive pace. Especially if you go in with a plan anything can be overcome but 100% size matters. I do agree with Wonderboy that for IRL situations where smaller people tend to have better cardio then "big" people then being a smaller person could be positive in a fight.
Tbf, in the kickboxing match, I'm pretty sure Seth could have ended it with a few powerful hits if he wanted to. By holding back so much, that negated a lot of the advantages size gives.
Must be demoralising when youre throwing punches from the bottom, and you hear your oppnent ask you genuinely - " was that a tap?" 😂😂
My favorite martial art trio on youtube. Always love to see you guys collab.
"just stand up" "pick him up and carry him around" two best strats
"was that a tap??"
"no!! that was a hit!!"
so funny and impressive, thank you kevin and wonderboy and seth!
loved too see how respecful a fight/sparring could be, if there are a big gap between the skills.
The zombie bite to the back head was a killer move. Sensei Seth won that round.
This is the most entertaining episode yet! Fantastic. Super funny and informative
This safe and stress-less environment for both the viewer and the fighter seem very joyful, fun and instructive. And you get to see some very clean martial arts techniques. Great video! Thanks for creating and sharing!
No huge opinion to offer here; just happy to watch and learn from three of my favorite people on TH-cam. Thanks for doing this!
To add to what Wonderboy said at 7:24 about waging a war of attrition, that's a strategy I've used against people who seemed heavier and stronger than me. Especially if the fight was unplanned and their adrenaline is going, it can be really easy to bait them into gassing themselves out tryna chase you down. My background is mostly in parkour and free-running, so I figure that's why the strategy has been generally effective.
Sometimes I been mean with it too lmao, and made them chase me up and down stairs or around obstacles. Like you want this fight bruh? You gonna have to sweat for it 😂😂😂
Wonderboy is a great dude. It shows what a difference pro level fighters are at, even against someone who is trained in martial arts. This is like child’s play for him, but because he’s a good guy he didn’t throw any nasty stuff, even though he easily could’ve done.
Good video, I enjoyed it!
it's not really a debate. there's a reason why weapons are a thing.
weapon does not make female reproductive organs wet though. Size does.
Because people are cowards?
@prepped8551 because a 100lb girl can't defeat a 220lb man in hand to hand combat, without an overwhelming force multiplier, like a gun.
Exactly 💯
@@prepped8551Whatever you want to call it. If the guy is twice your size. David and Goliath.
The BJJ match, and those single leg take downs during the MMA were especially impressive. Very cool
As someone of a average build in a lighter division I always thought that size does matter but it can be overcome. But I think I underestimated how hard it is to overcome it.
Kevin and Seth sparring? Yeah love it
Two points:
1. I start watching to get some motivation to get back in the gym after Covid has kicked my butt for almost a month (I still feel like crap). What's the first thing I see? Kevin's ad for a massive recliner! The last thing I need. LOL😂
2. Re: size vs skill, I think skill can overcome size if the small guy is A LOT more skilled than the bigger guy. I know this from being on the wrong side of the skill equation. My first instructor in kickboxing was a lot smaller than me, but if he wanted, he could easily kick my butt in any match. Every time, boom, kick to the head I never saw coming, usually as a reminder to keep my hands up. Never hurt me, but I know he could if he wanted.
Even Gracie Jiu Jitsu -- known for popularizing the smaller guy having a chance against a bigger guy -- has the Boyd Belts. For every 20 lbs. or 10 years age difference, that's a belt level.
I see Kevin Lee, Sensei Seth and Wonderboy in the same video, you know I'm hitting the like button before the opening ads are done.
this was a really fun watch... never seen your channel before, no idea who you are.
I DO know who wonderboy is.
But, seriously, I enjoyed everything about this video, the insights, the playful banter... just a very well done video.
Thank you.
Seth's balance in the clinch is crazy in comparison to a few years ago from all the sumo and other grappling he's been doing.
Seth's sound effects at 4:33 😄 Love it!
In sparring the small person is going to lose a lot more than they win against the bigger fighter because you can't really use the techniques that cause actual bodily harm. Also the truth is that the shorter fighter has to be exponentially more skilled to beat the bigger fighter. In a no rules fight, if you are chest to chest or back to back with the bigger guy, you are either badly injured or dead because all they have to do is full body weight slam you. BJJ works for smaller people because of the rule set and it only really worked in the early days because of the skill deficit. Though I think if a small person is in a fight with a bigger person where you can hurt them, going for the knee and the liver are your best bet. Because you are shorter, all you have to do is get the bigger fighter to raise their arms up even a little, often it works best if the bigger fighter grabs you because they aren't expecting the power a shorter person can throw into that liver and it doesn't take that much. I had someone move wrong during sparring and they caught my knee nowhere near full power to their liver and they folded up, the irony was that we weren't even wrestling or empty handed, we were doing swordsmanship, which is why the way they moved was so unexpected
I also think that one of the greatest things a fighter can do is controlled exhaustion training. Get to a point where you are physically exhausted and then learn how to push through to keep fighting, how to draw on your reserves and keep your focus. Great for sparring, super important for real world situations.
Overall you did really well considering that your MMA round was against an actual MMA champion, even being kind and going light, that's pretty damned impressive. I think your strategy with Seth was smart, keeping on him doggedly and forcing him to react. I think you played too much into his strength with the way you were occasionally trying to grapple. To cut down a tree you have to hit it low down, same thing when fighting bigger guys. Maybe focus more on your speed and being more aggressive to throw them off balance.
I did NOT expect the submission wrestling to go that way! Cool to see how agility can be such an advantage in that format.
congratz to all three of you..3 great fighters,humble and willing to share knowledge
Brilliant. So much respect, humor, and skill. Good on all y'all.
I served in the Marine Corps with a Mexican from California. He was maybe 5'3" and a former professional boxer and studied Filipino martial arts. He was amazingly quick. He could move in find holes and give multiple quick powerful jabs within seconds.
Speed , surprise, violence of action, if you can create all three at the same time as a small guy you have a chance, but not in the ring or mat against a prepared opponent. On the street it’s is viable assuming you are willing to do what ever it takes to win, because it’s a life or death situation. If it’s just an ego thing walk away. Also use of your environment, walls, corners, poor footing conditions, lighting conditions can all be advantageous something most formal martial arts do not consider.
💯👍
True, but bigger opponents can use all of those things as well.
@ yes but I find bigger guys tend to underestimate people smaller than themselves and aren’t looking for an advantage as they already think they have one. I tend to be wary of small guys and goaltenders, because they both tend to be nuts.
Love that scorpion punch
Thanks!!! 😂
@ let’s work some pads I usually train stunt folks and actors on Sunday at west end park 10am
that was cool, first time I've seen that..I'm trying in my next sparring session :)
@@mellow_jive_13 I have made a tutorial on it! Check out one of my old videos!!
Dude, Kevin's Kickboxing and BJJ are so slick. He's super humble to do a video like this. I hope it really comes through that Seth and Steven's advice is for small people, not Kevin specifically. I think its so cool that Varga and Thompson both comend your kickboxing, I hope that means more to you than some of the people here saying you, "lost".
Also, all I heard from Seth at the end is that you are going to come out with a Leg Attack video. You way you go for leg submissions is cool!
Awesome content as always!
When it comes to fighting, everything counts. From size, height, techniques, adaptation, versatility, matchup, fitness, and luck.
Amazing video! Before that video there were only videos of extremely skilled short fighters gains big dudes who dont know even how to stand in a fight. One of a kind video!
Just a wealth of info, while you're also having fun. Great job man! I noticed I wasn't subbed for some reason, and that has been fixed! Thank you for your effort!
For a smaller guy fighting a grappling opponent, it's simple. Pick a limb, and commit to it fully. You're almost never going to be able to out power the bigger guy. Trying to do so will get you tossed like a Frisbee. The first and second rounds were a great example of that full dynamic. Ken Shamrock was a master of it. If you're both basically sitting face to face, and you have one of his ankles under your arm, you've completely negated their height and weight advantage. Grapevine your legs around theirs, work an ankle lock, heel hook, or even a knee bar. They can't punch you, they can't kick you. The only thing they can do is try to out-technique you.
I think the discussion at the end of elongating bones was a bit weird, but … that’s how palate stretchers work. They make micro fractures in the hard palate, then let it heal while being held apart, then make more fractures and let THOSE heal … rinse and repeat. Not the most comfortable experience, but it does work. Not sure I’d sign up to do that to my legs, though …
For one, I'm glad I'm the bigger guy. It's just a friendly spar which was nice.
Something I loved about the grappling part as it shuts down all those: „Ouh in an real fight big guy just stands up and slams you on concrete“, even though Seth stood up and simulated smashing Kevin on the ground it didn‘t feel as powerfull?! Idk only these 2 know how powerfull it could have been as well as everyone sparring in mixed weight classes in training ^^
Amazing colab, LFG!!!!
Heck yeah! Kevin, you're in my weight class! Go bring glory to the 62ish kg weight class! 💪💪🥳
Having done rounds of hard sparring with guys that had 40 to 50 lbs over me, when I was preping for my fights. You have to tire them up, no way you can win when they're fresh. They just have to step on the gas and clip you once, while you have to work twice as hard, survive the storm and takeover.
Your summary reminds me of fight from Bruce Lee’s movie, Game of Death. Kareem Abdul Jabbar was far taller and heavier. Bruce’s character attempted to wear him down to mitigate the size difference.
A simple leg kick to bigger untrained fighter and they fold like laundry 😂
hey when you edit these videos you can stabilize them. just make sure that you are taking slight wider shots so the stabilizer can shave off a bit. take care!
I love that every single prediction of Seth exactly the OPPOSITE of Kevin gameplan
I really liked this. I like style vs style and small vs big comparison. Hope there will be more in the future. Or a street version
It's not just heavier in this case. Wonderboy has so much reach compared to Kevin. Kudos to Wonderboy too for his ground work, because that's not his strength but he defended and dominated with it. There are levels to this. Going against an elite MMA fighter must be quite the challenge and very good way to learn! Such a good video! That humility is inspiring.
Depends on opponants skill & fighting level, i mean some big blokes will just walk over the top of you ignoring your hits.
The reason for sports to have categories is for fairnes in SPORTS. Traditional martial arts have weak spots attacks, "dirty" techniques and tactics precisely for leverage. My FMA teacher Francisco Bello always says, everything is leverage, in order to win you have to have technical superiority, physical superiority or tactical superiority, even better a mixture of them... If you don't have leverage weight, height, strength, raw power will be an issue
your larger heavier opponent can also utilize "dirty" techniques. it's not an equalizer.
@Origin_Sphere better to have them in case you need them my friend
Do not plan on using the "weak spots". They are not that weak. A lot of them is almost impossible to exploit. Things like eyes, throat, spine, temple, groin. Target is too mobile to hit those consistently. The bigger you are, the harder your chin is (more mass to absorb). It is not a switch. A more consistent target is the liver and kidney, but.. so are yours. Size can compensate a lot of skill and speed difference.
@@nagyzoliexplain to me why Bruce Lee drilled thousands of repetitions per week of eye jabs, low side kicks to the knee, groin, moving targets, sparring on live training partners, put hundreds upon hundreds, even thousands of hours into training to hit primary targets/vulnerable targets?
You know Bruce Lee could hit these so called “impossible” targets at will, and you know why? Because he trained to do it. He put the time in. Why can’t you? Why do all you guys dismiss these techniques which are well known fight enders and if you have the ability to intercept someone and close the gap fast, something he also trained fanatically, you can even prevent a fight from happening to begin with. You guys have the wrong mindset and approach to all this stuff. There is no other way to stop a guy much bigger than you in his tracks without this approach. Your eyes, throat, groin are banned in sport for a reason.
Too much time complaining the targets are “too small” and not enough time actually training to hit the targets. Stop saying it “can’t be done” and start training it. My advice, train for reality, not sport.
You don’t need to hit the groin or the eye “consistently” it’s one and done. Try flicking your own balls and see how that feels. Ever poked yourself in the eye? Come on man, let’s be realistic here. These targets are banned in sport for a reason.
@@Origin_Spheresure, but when you specialise you will always have the upper hand. This internet nonsense of “I’ll just walk through having someone’s fingers shoved in my eyes” or “I’ll just walk through getting my nuts kicked” is complete fantasy nonsense.
These techniques absolutely are fight enders and can even prevent a fight from happening to begin with. I don’t expect you to understand this, most don’t. This is a self protection mindset, a different approach to unarmed combat. Prevention is always better. You cannot fight larger people in a normal way. It’s about keeping yourself safe and ending it as soon as possible and the only real way of doing this is attacking the eyes, groin, throat, knees. There is no other way to stop someone in their tracks unless you have a weapon. Too much sport nonsense has brainwashed people about the reality of self defence and how dangerous it is.
You ought to be training to stop any man of any size as soon as you can and trying to keep your sled safe in the process with good distance control and timing, if you aren’t you are wasting your time.
That was fun to watch. 😁
Thanks man!
Fun!
Kevin Lee looked like my kids playing around with me when they were younger!
This concept is precisely why I spar regularly with a friend who stands 6'6. I'm 5'7. Teaches you how to adapt to such a drastic size difference.
07:18 because it was longer. The round started at 02:46 and ended at 04:46 so it was two minutes
2:54 that full blown booty block 😂😂
Informative AND Fun!
For short people, heel hooks are the best option
Surprised to see Kevin throwing some above the waist kicks that left him off balance. Doing wing chun with big gloves is tough.
Skill is a size multiplier.
Something my instructor said to me 35years ago.
Also. Its cool to see how good WBs ground game a actually is vs non top 1% grapplers :)
Fun session and love how much control everyone was!
wow!! Thanks for sharing the knowledge guys
A large person can mask incompetence with power. A small person cannot.
I feel like the big guy versus small guy debate is fairly straightforward. If the big guy is skilled similarly to the small guy then it won't be a fair fight. However, I also think that a smaller opponent can overcome a larger opponent, even when both have similar skills, if the smaller opponent forces the larger to fight 'his' fight. Staying outside, working counter hits, forcing the bigger guy to chase them down and constantly attacking the lower limbs and feinting and evading. If you can do this long enough the tide may turn in your favor.
But, then again if the big guy knows how to counter this and fights smart? You should run.
Thanks for sharing good contents! I'm excited for what’s next in 2025, Kevin! 🙂
Of course size makes a difference, but size, strength, and weight are only 3 elements of the physical aspect of combat among a lot of others like speed, endurance, coordination, resilience, cardio, focus, flexibity, agility, etc. Fundamentally, combat is about control, and control is ultimately always physical in the end. The physical aspect of combat is the building block upon which everything sits, but it's what you do with it that matters. That's the technical aspect, the methods you employ. For those to work at all, and fulfill the real fundamental goal of combat, which is control, it's the tactical aspect that will define what's going to actually happen when applying those methods (techniques). Things like management of distance, timing, balance, pressure. They make or break a situation. Physical, technical, tactical. The 3 fundamental aspects of combat. Can't disregard any of them. You have to dominate in at least 2 of the 3 to have an advantage, but it remains only a question of odds playing against you or not towards your ability to be in control of what's physically happening.
Well said.
Size does matter. Period.
My pre-watch hypothesis: No. You may be able to show that a significant enough skill advantage can make up for some size, but size is still hugely relevant.
After watching: You didn't take "the chubby surprise" into account in the kickboxing round. Seth isn't just a big man. He's a very fast, very flexible big man.
All of the info at the end was brilliant. Seth gave away the ultimate big guy secret, though. We'd rather you take our back than ankle or knee because if you have our back, we can just stand up, jump, and fall on you. It's especially true for those of us who aren't as bendy as Seth.
I always saw it as physical advantage
LOL Sensei Seth giving away the vicious “Golden Cow Nibbles Lotus” technique, the practitioners of MooJitsu are going to dojo storm him now!🤣👍🤙🖖
Very interesting to see a much bigger guy that knows a bit of grappling being lost in wrestling/grappling fighting to a tiny guy that knows a lot. I thought that weight/muscles/other martial arts experience would be a bigger advantage. Thanks for the show.
The reality in a true fight, it is never about style or size , it is solely determined by the individual person!
Umm, style and size are part of and inseparable from the individual person. Lol.
Disney Talk
Same style, same skill level, size will determine the winner. In any other situation, the results will depend on the situation. In general, a more skilled smaller person will win against a bigger less skilled person. That's common sense.
Even if there's a 50-100 pound difference?
@ Yes. do you think the eyeballs, ear drums, nose bridge, throat of a 300 lbs is somehow magically more durable than the 100 lbs guy’s? Skills and knowledge will win over size 99% of the time if the bigger guy is not skilled. Are you imagining perhaps a scene where some tiny gung fu master is going to try to punch a 300 lbs guy in the jaw or stomach? If so, you are severely misunderstanding actual combat skills and knowledge. No skilled and knowledgeable fighter would waste his time trying to out punch a bigger opponent. The great equalizer- soft targets - end of story for the giant unskilled opponent.
if you even accidentally lightly brushed the eye lens of anyone no matter the size - that person will 100% react and recoil… in that time three other weak points should have been destroyed.
Great video.. alot of fun to watch!
My senior JJJ student only beat me once when we were rolling "to win" (he caught me in a guillotine on the way to the ground and then wrapped my legs), but would cut through the other guys in the club with ease.
His "excuse" was always "A good big un will always beat a good little un", and he was right.
Latter, I got to roll with some high level Judo and Sambo guys and although they were lighter than me, I got ragdolled until I functionalised what I know in a sporting context.
They were way more skilled than me on the ground, but I eventually got up to about 50:50 wins against a guy who was 40lbs lighter than me.
Size wins, but speed and technique levels the table.
Yo aplaudí cuando anunciaron a Thompson; Size matters and combined with agility and training you can do crazy things.
in the grapling match with seth,one slam its done
Great video Kevin!
I wish I could get the leg lock like that
@@RhysRozum I do a lot of leg locks in my grappling game! 😅
Loved it! You guys are funny
Enjoyed the video, although a silly concept. No one would ever argue whether size makes a difference or not, the argument is generally whether size trumps skill (a big guy with no experience versus a skilled smaller guy) and the answer to that is no, that at least 90% of the time skill will trump size.
When both the smaller and bigger guys are well trained, then the answer is sort of obvious, and depending how big of a size and skill gap will determine how big of percentage change. If there's a big size difference between the skilled guys you could argue that the bigger guy would win 90% of the time
In this situation, within the rules/ring when both fighters have the same 'tools' and the only difference is size, then YES it will matter.
With no rules, if you used something the other person wasn't used to fighting i.e. able to use your wing chun expertise, then may have some kind of chance but of course it wiould be better to use your speed to run away.
I think height and reach matter more than pure weight. A large part of it is also that generally the techniques you learn are built around fighting someone of similar size. If we developed techniques specifically around fighting someone smaller/larger than you, the results may differ. We have weight classes for a reason, but we could probably develop a better system using height, reach, weight that would ensure a more fair test of skill. As it is, weight and gender classifications are pretty limiting and I'm not fond of em.
I used to tell students that size doesn't matter, until it does. Also that everyone does what they can best.
If you're equally skilled and someone is twice your size you aren't going to do too well.
Nor if you think just because you train that someone doesn't have a stronger will to survive
"How are you here?" LOL
What Seth said about putting himself in bad position, I could not relate more as a leg rider
I think strength is more important than size. Mass moves mass, so they go together, but I've wrestled people that I had 40 pounds on but were crazy strong (planche push-up, one arm pull up strong) and i felt no advantage. Don't fear size, fear strength.
6:14 that’s not the only thing you eat a lot of 😂😂😂
Just a friendly joke, I think you are pretty good. I actually consider trying Sumo wrestling from the video you showed before.
OMG... Loved this... looks like club fun!!!...with great guys!
To take on Bigger Opponents with more Reach and Heavier than you:
You have to have better Cardio,
You Should Not Confront them Head On (they can easily reach, punch, grab and kick you!!);
Kick their lower legs to keep them away from you and use that to distract your opponent;
Always circle around both ways to attack them from the side so they cant fight you head on,
and never let them grab you or you'll get thrown around like a rag doll and get punched in the head after the body shots when slammed into a corner;
Need A Super High Level of Jiu Jitsu Skills if you get grabbed and taken down to the Ground (ie BJJ vs Body Builder video).
Thanks for experimenting to help everyone learn to Level Up and recording the video for us!!
Size does matter, but skill can breach that gap easily. Especially if you have a well rounded knowledge in multiple disciplines.
no, you can't. Because it absolutely matters, there is no debate for around 100 years. Size = reach and you would need a ridiculous amount of speed advantage to even the odds. If you were an active fighter in training put against a hobbyist- then the athletic difference could even the odds (not to mention skill advantage).
In boxing I sparred guys 8 weight classes below me. Sure, they were much faster, some had comparable or longer reach than I did. But they quickly realized 2 things:
1. Hand/arm speed is highly unrelated to body weight. While the difference is visible- it's not great enough to factor much in trying to in&out a heavier guy.
2. Lighter guy needs to land a well sitting strike to win or land multiple blows. Heavier guy just needs to land one. Sometimes you can stagger the guy just by hitting his guard. 5-10 kg muscle absolutely makes a difference.
More extreme example- in kyokushin karate we often spar with 13-15yo kids who are old enough to join adult classes. We obviously don't go hard against them, but we let them go as hard as they want on us. When I'm nearly 3 times heavier than them- their blows feel like mosquito bites, maybe even less. And I'm a total softie, the worst kyokushin karateka in 5 km radius usually.