I think that the starter set is just made simpler, for obvious reasons. And Airfix are capitalizing on their investment to offer the other kit, with more options for the more experienced modeler. This makes total sense, but for the fact that they did this with their recent small scale tanks, offering one piece or multi link tracks in the same box. Having said that, its probably not practical to do the same for aircraft models, so I applaud them for the 2 offerings. I must say that I fancy one in US markings, so having recently completed the starter set version and being reasonably impressed, I have just ordered the other boxing. Matt, your video has inadvertently made me make this purchase, but in a good way, keep up the good work mate.
Totally agree, having built a much earlier version of the Vb than you have Matt, it would have been sense to retool the Vb not a 2nd Vc and why not a mk 9 or 15?
I agree in that it would make more sense to make the Vb as the starter set then as your skills develop you could go on to the Vc or go back and start the Va and so on. Great video today and always look forward to the next one!
Good comparison and good points made so thank you. But if I can try to defend Airfix a little... The starter set will probably be around in the same form for a very long time, but that wouldn't sell to the intermediate or higher modeller (I'm certainly not interested in a plane with a big hole in the wing for a display stand!) The tooling for the regular Vc is done in such a way as to have potential for a Vb amongst others and I would expect (and hope) to see it re-released in lots of different forms in years to come. I assume they tried to find a compromise in tooling for both ranges and couldn't. Why release both as a Vc from the offset? Don't know. Do we need another Spitfire? Yes, Matt. Always yes.
I have 15 of the 22 versións of the Spitfires in 1/72 the "american Spit " got the "abukir" filter used in África front. Thank you for your review of the two Spitfires.
Hi Mat, thank for another objective review, I can understand Airfix's method, it's probably cheaper to alter a few parts of an exiting mould than make a complete one, and at the end the day it's about a spratt to catch a mackerel! And spitfires are quite possibly the best seller on the world market? Keep the reviews coming, like the comments and other peoples point of view.
My thought of Airfix's decision process: We are 1) retooling the Vc to current standards. We also want to 2) make a beginners kit, where we remove each and every possibility to make a mistake and make the parts breakdown so that less cleanup is required (I think the way to mount the canopy with less risk to get gluey thumbprints all over it is brilliant, so is the integrated cowl an exhausts. The difference in the wings, btw, is mostly the internal structure, which is molded in for the beginner). With current CAD design processes we can get 2) out of 1) with little additional effort. Making the Vb as a simplified version would have meant more CAD modeling, more development effort. Also the advanced modelers would have moaned that they want the Vb in a non-dummy version.
Hi there thanks for your video on these kits. I started making Airfix kits in the late 50's/60's has a kid, I have not made many since, apart from a kit of a old Mini I made last year. I found your channel when looking for video's on airbrushing, but I recently found out about the Airfix mystery box deal so I ordered one. In it is the new Spitfire kit, a kit of the P51 Mustang and a starter kit of the F15 if I remember correctly. I decided to have a go and get my hand in and build a few kits before I try building a kit my son bought me 2 years ago. A kit of a Honda 400-4 one of my favourite motor cycles, I used to have one for real in red. The main modelling I have been doing is my N-gauge model railway which I started when I retired, I can be found on the n-gauge forum under the same name. I am on my third layout, having scrapped the first two has I found out more of what I wanted ie to watch trains go by. I have subscribed now and plan to watch your video on the spitfire for tips. I have invested heavily in a new compressor and airbrush and this time a spray booth. For years I have sprayed into a old cardboard box using my 30 year old 150L Badger airbrush, I did wear a mask but I have a proper one this time. The paint for the Honda kit has solvents in it, it is Japanese, ie Mr Hobby/Mr color, but is a perfect colour match, so I thought it a good idea to play safe. Chris.
Completely agree.The old vb would have made a good starter set. Admittedly it's been a very long time since I made one but it was simple to build and went together well .The new vc looks a good kit with lots of options but I won't buy one yet as I have a Revell vb .If Airfix wanted to re tool another of their spitfires they should have re done the mk 9 tooling. Having never built one before I got the chance to a couple of years ago and it was woeful !
*It's very interesting to compare this different models from a single brand, sometimes managers took some decisions that we can't understand! Whatever, thanks for this video!*
im guessing the reason they have two of the same kit is that they didnt want to do a full redesign as well as full new tooling for a new product range that they haven't trialled before (ie a genuine basic model for starters as opposed to a normal kit plus some paints). it probably takes as much if not more investment to create the virtual model. once you have that its trivial to chop it up in a different ways. from a business point of view they probably assume the majority of hobbyists are not really interested in easy to build kits with essentially no options and limited detailing on some parts, also they don't actually know how big the market is for true easy build starter sets so this is them stepping into a new area. if only 10,000 easy build kits actually sell then they wont recover the £100k tooling cost. you need to remember these are two different products aimed at two different customer groups if they were to do a different mk of spitfire they would have been doubling at least the cost investment and not increased the sale estimates. and while you may say it could eat into sales of the existing Vc id like to point out that you have it in your stash and wernt going to buy it again.... and i bet money that a good chunk of your viewers have it in their stash or on display already.
Since Airfix are not focused on "competing" with their own products you need to look at the versions being offered by competitors. A starter kit is offer to entice new customers to the joys of model building or simply offering a complete "rainy day kit" that is a self contained fun one day build - again to stimulate a new modeler. The "standard kit" offers options in both paint schemes and version "variants" - some people actually like to build up multiple versions of the same aircraft and might even build different manufacturers versions of the same aircraft. Good on Airfix for creating additional incentives to increase sales opportunity.
Yes, I agree too. We are still waiting for a very good spitfire mkVb on this scale, and Airfix could have built a new mold for this version, it had the tools and the way to make it! I hope it's just a matter of time.
*UPDATE!* The designer of this kit agreed to do an interview with me regarding the reasons for creating 2 of these kits - take a look here: th-cam.com/video/uSVA0KgGzIg/w-d-xo.html
It does seem a bit bizarre to offer two different versions of the same mark rather than doing a Vc and a Vb as you suggest. I wonder if it's to do with the overheads for research and CAD modelling where they can reduce that by utilising the same research and model for both kits albeit by modifying the parts breakdown rather than the overheads associated with researching and modelling two different types of spitfire.
yeah, maybe. Could be because they had all the research and design work that it was cheaper to get 2 tools made rather than having to put more time and work into doing a whole Vb thing . . . Edit - not an expert but I can't imagine the differences between a Vb and Vc being huge though in model form
@@ModelMinutes yeah, sorry I meant my initial theory kinda falls about because they are so similar that you'd imagine research and remodelling wouldn't be that extensive. I think the wing is the only major difference.
the Vb would have been a good starting point (now i am not defending this decision) but it may have meant modifying an old mold tool and perhaps that would have been more time consuming than a new mold as well as making it no longer available for the "classic" series. Also is the older VB ok for fit? i know that airfix has improved its fit since the series 2 Vb was first launched. I know I have an airfix mkV but its in 1/48 (it's the one with the Douglas Bader decals)
Their older Vb hasn't been in the vintage classics range yet as far as i know . . . Not sure it would sell well either when you can get other versions from other companies
I agree with you. Airfix has a lot of classic kits that really need an update to today's standards. The only reason I will buy the standard Vc kit is the decal. I love shark mouth liveries.
Ref versions: Have they ever offered a Seafire variant, since that was 90% a Spitfire with an arrester hook? That would be nice to see, or a Harrier / Sea Harrier, Hurricane / Hurricat? Basically any kit where the airframe was 90% the same but had a naval variant. BTW that mk Vb you haven't opened yet has Polish markings (the red and white checked box). If memory serves the tail was a slightly different shape too, which was a so-n-so to carve.
It is possible seeing as they were squadron identifiers and not specific planes. When the Vb was replaced by a Vc it is possible they had the same identification code. There is even a Mk ix with the same code
Thankfully there's an open canopy version often nowadays. 30 odd years ago I made my own with a hobby knife, laboriously cutting a 1:72 cockpit into three sections and then gluing two of them. That was not a happy experience and if videoed the audio track would have many many bleeps!
interesting video, from what I've seen it may be that the tooling used with the Vc will allow interchangeability to other marks, past and future, for example like you pointed out the lower part of the cowling to allow the different filters, and the different wings. it may just be a futureproofing exercise. I do wish they would use different pilots though, different uniform, parachutes etc would be nice to see.
I think you and airfix are both valid in the ideas. For airfix, you have a progression where you can do 2 the same but different to improve modelling skills OR this could be an adult and child model together idea (or indeed 2 friends), getting the less experienced modeller on the easier kit and making it a social. Your plan also makes perfect sense as the old kit is a level 1.
There is a follow-up video about these kits where I have a chat with the designer and he explains their reason for creating two kits: th-cam.com/video/uSVA0KgGzIg/w-d-xo.html
Is this "simplified kit" thing a new idea or has it always been this say with starter sets? And is it just Airfix that does this? I've bought several Revell starter sets over the years mainly for their little double sided red and blue brush which I use when decaling for MicroSol and MicroSet. I can't say I've ever noticed any simplification (no comments about lack of accurate detail on Revell's kits, we know, we know...)
Generally speaking, a “starter set” was just a normal kit from the range (usually an easier one) and some paints, glue and a brush thrown in. It would seem that whilst there are a selection of “easy build” kits out there, Airfix have decided to go the whole hog and tailor design a specific range of starter sets which will never be anything else
Pretty sure the starter kit is the more recent addition. Its design process was featured on the recent TV series about Hornby. I can’t see what the problems are with these being ‘the same aircraft’, because they aren’t. One is the easier to build version, as well as the other one is tropicalised and has two finish options. Why shouldn’t those less skilled or just starting out have the opportunity to have this Spitfire?
The B and C refer to the wing types - C being "universal" and could have the same armament as the B, whilst the B would need modification to bring it inline with the C type. As mentioned in the video, you will ultimately end up with the same model built at the end - both being Spitfire Vc
The lettering on the marks refers to the wings. Well more accurate it's the ariment configuration. But I did notice you can build a European mk v as well as a tropical out of the box
To me the overall concept of an easy version AND a conventional version makes sense in that Airfix quite rightly wants to encourage would be modellers into the hobby and the best way they can do that is make kits that are as simple as possible so that they aren't discouraged by "over engineered" kits but still have a bit of a challenge that "gives them" a Spitfire. The more modellers in the hobby means that it has a better chance of surviving which benefits Airfix and existing modellers. This two track way is the most cost effective way of achieving this - apologies retired accountant speaking, I now have a life!
Had the starter set been a Mk Vb, even more experienced modelers might have been tempted to buy one. To me at least it sounds tempting to have all subvariants of the Mk V with a similar level of surface detail from the same manufacturer.
It’s a pity that Airfix only did the Mk.Va, the non cannon armed Mk.V, as a limited run a few years back, it would be nice to build a Va, Vb and a Vc, but getting your hands on the Va is a bit difficult and expensive nowadays, unless of course the wings from the retooled Mk.Ia will fit the Mk.V fuselage with little or no problems.
@@ModelMinutes I did cross kit the Airfix Mk.Ia and Vb about twenty or so years ago to make a Va, the wings from the Ia fitted the Vb fuselage almost perfectly, the only change I had to do was remove the moulded on oil cooler under the port wing, far too shallow, and fit the oil cooler from the Vb, plus the prop and canopy. I haven’t had a look at the newer mouldings of the two aircraft that Airfix now do so I don’t know if the wings can be cross kitted as easily any more.
Do a double build, Make the starter set ala starter set rules and build the standard kit the usual way. Sometimes there might be something different in the construction that isn't quite apparent when just looking at bits of sprue.
@@charlieboye2009 well, not really, if you watched my build of the starter set kit you’d know that I hand painted it like a beginner, and when I get round to the “advanced” version I’ll do a more conventional build. I just don’t always have time to build lots of kits at the same time sadly, and have to build kits and edit videos when I can
Airfix have made A decision whether it will be right or wrong only time will tell as the market will speak and sales will tell if they were correct in their thought process , I have yet to see the starter kit any where but I have already purchased 4 of the standard kit and have almost finished my 2nd one and have enjoyed both and will probably start on a third straight away I will build the non tropical version of which all the parts are in the kit except decals for which I will have to use my Xtradecal set . Happy modelling !
My basic complaint is that I'm more likely to buy the Starter Set as I've been needing an easier kit after a streak of complex ones, but the other Vc has the cooler livery and the open canopy option. Not sure why the starter set doesn't have that option, the Hurricane starter set does.
If I recall correctly, the hurricane will be rebranded as a gift set (not being specifically designed as a starter set) and also the canopy is 2 part rather than intended to be displayed open (it doesn’t quite fit properly in the open position, being not designed for it and also not mentioned in the instructions)
@@ModelMinutes That does check out. While it did not fit very well in the open position I did still install it that way so that the cockpit was visible. I figured it was an intended feature but it indeed isn't mentioned in the instructions so I guess not.
I think you missed Airfix's point. The starter sets are to introduce new modelers to the hobby with easier to build kits. The kit with more options are for the more advanced modeler that wants to personalize his (her) build. The other point is that had they just made one version, you would have spent £10.00 but they managed to get you to spend £20.00
I get that point, and I explore elements of them in the unboxing I made on each kit in previous videos…. Were I not a review channel I would have only bought one of these kits because I don’t really want two spitfires of the exact same mark just with different skill in construction… If anything, I think had they done my suggestion at the end of the video they would have opened up an even broader market
Doing various versions of the same aircraft isn't a novelty, Fujimi started in the early '80s with the "Phantom Family", followed by the A6, JU87 and A7, plus some japanese fighters, it's a way to utilize a common mold for some parts, plus a way to collect the history of a certain aircraft.
Good thing to point out is although they are the same price and yes one has more detail and one with paints and glue has less, but lets be honest has anyone ever had an airfix kit where all the paints where completely dried out lol, maybe just my bad luck but cant be just me.
There is a Quality Control issue with the new paint pots - Airfix have made it known they are investigating the problem and looking at resolving it (the pots are designed in such a way that when the lids are pushed on, they will pop off slightly which allows air in to dry the paints out)
I suspect that it is about marketing, they may well have determined that the starter model will sell better to new or casual model builder, but not to the more experienced modeller who will prefer the other kit. I don't think they expect someone who has built the starter set to buy the other kit, but a kit of a different subject. And/or it might be about where they sell the kits. The starter model might be more attractive to toy shops, news agents etc. but not to model shops for instance. I expect that they have done some very careful research and determined that two models will net them more sales than just one.
I agree, this makes no sense. Also, whats the point of building a Mk. V, a Mk. Vb and a Mk. Vc? Can you tell the difference when all of them are displayed next to each other in the display case? I, personally, would rather build one Spitfire and (say) a Bf 109 and a Mustang (for example).
@@EindbaasToad that’s insane, TH-cam literally informs me that unlisted videos will not get cards shown. I guess you are lucky, seeing this video before everyone else
EVERY company has spitfire, bf109 and mustang in their range :-) and they are constantly improving them, especially pilot space, which makes me confused especialy with these little canopies
Don't understand it either Matt, I get the starter set is a simpler build, but why waste thousands of pounds on a separate mould of the same variant when you could've tooled a lessor available mark!
I think your missing the point Matt. I watched Phil Flory's interview with Paramjit from Airfix who designed the Mk.Vc starter set and he said the entire decision around creating this kit was to bring a brand new and simpler starter set for brand new modellers to ensure their first experience in the hobby is an enjoyable one. This kit really wasn't really meant for modellers like you and I. Don't get me wrong there's nothing stopping us from buying 1 but they are 2 totally different kits meant for 2 totally different target audiences.
I know why they made the starter set version, I discussed that in the unboxing and build videos I made on that kit and I actually think it's a great idea. The point I dont get, and as mentioned here, is why do 2 versions of the same one - why not do a slightly different version as the starter set and another as the more advanced version, that way if an more experienced modeller wants both versions of 2 different aircraft they can, same with beginners who got their practice in on the simple one. But if i were a beginner who had made a Vc, i might not want to do another one - there is not as much incentive there to do the same kit again . . .
BTW ref the reason there are two kits.. I think it was a marketing / business decision rather than a model one. Why spend the money developing two entire kits when it's cheaper to make one kit, simplify it, and then sell the first as a standard kit and the second as a starter set. Spend less on design / development and get two kits out of it maximising profit.
Who cares, really now. I like both versions. and it's clear why they make both. Va , Vb, Vc, The next one is Vd, which is the one I don't want to get. I love airfix and it's various kits. God knows I am a glutton for them. I have over 500 airfix kits.
Because one is a basic starter set, companies need to make their money from the tooling and design process so multiple boxings are a must. Why not ask why Tamiya have been knocking out the same Mustang kit for the last 25 years.
Modifed yeah, maybe the sprues are on the same tool as the detailed kit? but obviously airfix think it's worth it. The Vc is the most requested marque, and there's enough differences if you know what you're looking at. It's why eduard can make a dozen different 109G kits, they are all different if you care to know how.
The starter set is a normal MkVc the other kit is a Tropical version, so one used in Africa and over the Med, with the big sand filter under the engine. I think that's the main selling point.
we do need a mk5c so you can do a RAAF in South Pacific WW2 or RAF in Burma WW2 the mk5b was not use in these places so a has a New Zealand japan was more of a threat to use then Germany
I wasn’t really questioning whether we needed a Vc, more if we needed 2 in different skill level toolings when they will look objectively the same when constructed
LOL.I remember back in the mid seventies here in Australia,My hobby shop had these as a series 1 kit in a plastic bag with the instructions as a folded up section closing off the top of the plastic bag with a hole in the middle at the very top.They had a big wall just above the front door that had hanging hooks that came straight out with a slight twist up at the end to hold the bags in place and these where about 4 kits deep maybe 15 kits across and 5 or so down.the lower section of the wall had larger hooks that where spaced next to each other to allow the series 2 kits in boxes to be placed 2 deep and maybe 10 across and 2 or 3 down..They then had a long gripper tool about 6 ft long that could grab what kitt you wanted.That was a lot of Airfix Kits back then.Bigger kits or boats/ships or cars were on shelves at shoulder level and below.The hobby shop is Loonnngggg gone but the memories remain!!.P.S. this was before starter kits with paints and glue.
despite the fact that it has everything to do with one of them being a starter set - they are completely different toolings! (or did you not watch the video?)
This is trying to understand the reasoning behind the Airfix decision to produce two kits of what are ostensibly the same Spitfire model. To aficionados of the Spitfire, no collection of piston engine fighters should be without one, this offering would probably be a rather welcome one, but to the modeler who wants but one example, two could mean a lost opportunity to produce a kit of another aircraft instead.
Airfix made the right decision as a company. As one of their people admitted at the recent TH-camr day "Spitfires sell more than anything else". You are deluded if you think they care about individual customers.
it's funny you mention the TH-camr day because I was there and actually had the chance to have a chat with the designer of this kit and address my concerns/queries about why they made 2 of the same models. Stay tuned for that interview coming soon
1942 Edit: They weren't widely used but there were many squadrons that had them in various theatres when their "intended" aircraft were either delayed, diverted, or simply not good enough for that theatre so they ended up using British aircraft that they knew would work
The starter set is aimed ageneral retailers and casual builders who arnt bothered about historical accuracy , the othe is for modellers who maybe want to build every version with every paint scheme , as an experienced modeller going into a shop to buy a present for a niece or nephew the starter set would win every time !
i understand the differences between buying a starter set and an advanced kit, my main concern was that it will end up with the same model in the end, it would have made more sense to me to do different versions of the same aircraft rather than the same, that way a beginner can get the other version of the plane after building the starter set
Because there stupid haha. I think its down to money , their logic must be if you buy the starter kit and you decide you like the hobby if you read or watch a review of the more difficult version then you might go and by it , the more kits they sell the more money they make . Oh yes i often ask myself what another bloody spitefire why , i do wish they would make something different , take a risk .
I think that the starter set is just made simpler, for obvious reasons. And Airfix are capitalizing on their investment to offer the other kit, with more options for the more experienced modeler. This makes total sense, but for the fact that they did this with their recent small scale tanks, offering one piece or multi link tracks in the same box. Having said that, its probably not practical to do the same for aircraft models, so I applaud them for the 2 offerings. I must say that I fancy one in US markings, so having recently completed the starter set version and being reasonably impressed, I have just ordered the other boxing. Matt, your video has inadvertently made me make this purchase, but in a good way, keep up the good work mate.
Thanks for watching!
Watching this while listening to the LIV ARS match. Very thorough! I don't build up planes but enjoy all your vids. Cheers!
Much appreciated!
Totally agree, having built a much earlier version of the Vb than you have Matt, it would have been sense to retool the Vb not a 2nd Vc and why not a mk 9 or 15?
well said, i would have liked an accurate spitfire prototype too even!
I agree in that it would make more sense to make the Vb as the starter set then as your skills develop you could go on to the Vc or go back and start the Va and so on. Great video today and always look forward to the next one!
Absolutely! Thanks for watching!
That's a very helpful overview thanks Matt !
Glad it was helpful!
Good comparison and good points made so thank you. But if I can try to defend Airfix a little... The starter set will probably be around in the same form for a very long time, but that wouldn't sell to the intermediate or higher modeller (I'm certainly not interested in a plane with a big hole in the wing for a display stand!) The tooling for the regular Vc is done in such a way as to have potential for a Vb amongst others and I would expect (and hope) to see it re-released in lots of different forms in years to come. I assume they tried to find a compromise in tooling for both ranges and couldn't.
Why release both as a Vc from the offset? Don't know.
Do we need another Spitfire? Yes, Matt. Always yes.
Hmm, good point, they could provide a sprue with a different wing for the Vb
I have 15 of the 22 versións of the Spitfires in 1/72 the "american Spit " got the "abukir" filter used in África front.
Thank you for your review of the two Spitfires.
Thanks for watching 😊
Excellent video and only 15 dislikes and 450 likes, the sign of a solid TH-cam channel.
thanks :D
Hi Mat, thank for another objective review, I can understand Airfix's method, it's probably cheaper to alter a few parts of an exiting mould than make a complete one, and at the end the day it's about a spratt to catch a mackerel! And spitfires are quite possibly the best seller on the world market?
Keep the reviews coming, like the comments and other peoples point of view.
Thanks , will do 😊
My thought of Airfix's decision process: We are 1) retooling the Vc to current standards. We also want to 2) make a beginners kit, where we remove each and every possibility to make a mistake and make the parts breakdown so that less cleanup is required (I think the way to mount the canopy with less risk to get gluey thumbprints all over it is brilliant, so is the integrated cowl an exhausts. The difference in the wings, btw, is mostly the internal structure, which is molded in for the beginner).
With current CAD design processes we can get 2) out of 1) with little additional effort. Making the Vb as a simplified version would have meant more CAD modeling, more development effort. Also the advanced modelers would have moaned that they want the Vb in a non-dummy version.
My thoughts exactly.
yeah, maybe
Hi there thanks for your video on these kits. I started making Airfix kits in the late 50's/60's has a kid, I have not made many since, apart from a kit of a old Mini I made last year. I found your channel when looking for video's on airbrushing, but I recently found out about the Airfix mystery box deal so I ordered one. In it is the new Spitfire kit, a kit of the P51 Mustang and a starter kit of the F15 if I remember correctly. I decided to have a go and get my hand in and build a few kits before I try building a kit my son bought me 2 years ago. A kit of a Honda 400-4 one of my favourite motor cycles, I used to have one for real in red. The main modelling I have been doing is my N-gauge model railway which I started when I retired, I can be found on the n-gauge forum under the same name. I am on my third layout, having scrapped the first two has I found out more of what I wanted ie to watch trains go by.
I have subscribed now and plan to watch your video on the spitfire for tips. I have invested heavily in a new compressor and airbrush and this time a spray booth. For years I have sprayed into a old cardboard box using my 30 year old 150L Badger airbrush, I did wear a mask but I have a proper one this time. The paint for the Honda kit has solvents in it, it is Japanese, ie Mr Hobby/Mr color, but is a perfect colour match, so I thought it a good idea to play safe. Chris.
thanks for the info and for watching :D
Completely agree.The old vb would have made a good starter set. Admittedly it's been a very long time since I made one but it was simple to build and went together well .The new vc looks a good kit with lots of options but I won't buy one yet as I have a Revell vb .If Airfix wanted to re tool another of their spitfires they should have re done the mk 9 tooling. Having never built one before I got the chance to a couple of years ago and it was woeful !
That's a good suggestion
*It's very interesting to compare this different models from a single brand, sometimes managers took some decisions that we can't understand! Whatever, thanks for this video!*
thanks for watching!
im guessing the reason they have two of the same kit is that they didnt want to do a full redesign as well as full new tooling for a new product range that they haven't trialled before (ie a genuine basic model for starters as opposed to a normal kit plus some paints). it probably takes as much if not more investment to create the virtual model. once you have that its trivial to chop it up in a different ways.
from a business point of view they probably assume the majority of hobbyists are not really interested in easy to build kits with essentially no options and limited detailing on some parts, also they don't actually know how big the market is for true easy build starter sets so this is them stepping into a new area. if only 10,000 easy build kits actually sell then they wont recover the £100k tooling cost.
you need to remember these are two different products aimed at two different customer groups if they were to do a different mk of spitfire they would have been doubling at least the cost investment and not increased the sale estimates. and while you may say it could eat into sales of the existing Vc id like to point out that you have it in your stash and wernt going to buy it again.... and i bet money that a good chunk of your viewers have it in their stash or on display already.
I bought both versions to make a video about it, if I had been building for me I wouldn’t have bought either I imagine
I've made the tropical version with American markings and have to say it's a lovely kit.
Awesome! I've not made mine yet, but have done the starter set version which was alright
Since Airfix are not focused on "competing" with their own products you need to look at the versions being offered by competitors. A starter kit is offer to entice new customers to the joys of model building or simply offering a complete "rainy day kit" that is a self contained fun one day build - again to stimulate a new modeler.
The "standard kit" offers options in both paint schemes and version "variants" - some people actually like to build up multiple versions of the same aircraft and might even build different manufacturers versions of the same aircraft. Good on Airfix for creating additional incentives to increase sales opportunity.
I have a follow up video to this coming soon
Yes, I agree too.
We are still waiting for a very good spitfire mkVb on this scale, and Airfix could have built a new mold for this version, it had the tools and the way to make it!
I hope it's just a matter of time.
Perhaps they will
Revell has a new Mk Vb (03897) in its range that might be something for you.
*UPDATE!* The designer of this kit agreed to do an interview with me regarding the reasons for creating 2 of these kits - take a look here: th-cam.com/video/uSVA0KgGzIg/w-d-xo.html
I think the starter set giving you a simplified model is a good idea. When you gain more skills you tend to build more complex kits.
yeah, the idea of the starter set is great, i just dont understand why they did 2 different versions of the same exact aircraft type
@@ModelMinutes with all the spitfire kits they have released over the years I'm surprised they haven't done a Tr Mk9 variant
@@Kickback-dm7zt it would be interesting
In the time I have been waiting for the video I have bought both kits myself.
nice
It does seem a bit bizarre to offer two different versions of the same mark rather than doing a Vc and a Vb as you suggest. I wonder if it's to do with the overheads for research and CAD modelling where they can reduce that by utilising the same research and model for both kits albeit by modifying the parts breakdown rather than the overheads associated with researching and modelling two different types of spitfire.
yeah, maybe. Could be because they had all the research and design work that it was cheaper to get 2 tools made rather than having to put more time and work into doing a whole Vb thing . . .
Edit - not an expert but I can't imagine the differences between a Vb and Vc being huge though in model form
@@ModelMinutes Yeah, the theory does fall apart a little on the issue of how similar a Vb and Vc would be
@@andrewwalker9954 I was under the impression that the wings were the main difference, but as for airframe and other parts I don’t really know…
@@ModelMinutes yeah, sorry I meant my initial theory kinda falls about because they are so similar that you'd imagine research and remodelling wouldn't be that extensive. I think the wing is the only major difference.
@@andrewwalker9954 I guess Airfix does what Airfix wants 😂
The designing of the bottom one was on the Hornby program recently.
yup
the Vb would have been a good starting point (now i am not defending this decision) but it may have meant modifying an old mold tool and perhaps that would have been more time consuming than a new mold as well as making it no longer available for the "classic" series. Also is the older VB ok for fit? i know that airfix has improved its fit since the series 2 Vb was first launched. I know I have an airfix mkV but its in 1/48 (it's the one with the Douglas Bader decals)
Their older Vb hasn't been in the vintage classics range yet as far as i know . . . Not sure it would sell well either when you can get other versions from other companies
I agree with you. Airfix has a lot of classic kits that really need an update to today's standards. The only reason I will buy the standard Vc kit is the decal. I love shark mouth liveries.
:D
Ref versions: Have they ever offered a Seafire variant, since that was 90% a Spitfire with an arrester hook? That would be nice to see, or a Harrier / Sea Harrier, Hurricane / Hurricat? Basically any kit where the airframe was 90% the same but had a naval variant.
BTW that mk Vb you haven't opened yet has Polish markings (the red and white checked box). If memory serves the tail was a slightly different shape too, which was a so-n-so to carve.
I think they did have a seafire, but perhaps in 1/48 and not 1/72, could be wrong though
Did you notice that the Vc starter kit has the same lettercode as the old Vb kit: RF•D ?
It is possible seeing as they were squadron identifiers and not specific planes. When the Vb was replaced by a Vc it is possible they had the same identification code. There is even a Mk ix with the same code
How do you get paint out of panel lines, its acrylic.
could use a fine, pointed tool
Thankfully there's an open canopy version often nowadays. 30 odd years ago I made my own with a hobby knife, laboriously cutting a 1:72 cockpit into three sections and then gluing two of them. That was not a happy experience and if videoed the audio track would have many many bleeps!
yeah, i had to cut many of mine in the past too
@@ModelMinutes not a happy memory is it? *lol*
@@julianmhall nope
interesting video, from what I've seen it may be that the tooling used with the Vc will allow interchangeability to other marks, past and future, for example like you pointed out the lower part of the cowling to allow the different filters, and the different wings. it may just be a futureproofing exercise. I do wish they would use different pilots though, different uniform, parachutes etc would be nice to see.
Apparently the pilot is underscale in this, which I didnt notice in the review
I think you and airfix are both valid in the ideas. For airfix, you have a progression where you can do 2 the same but different to improve modelling skills OR this could be an adult and child model together idea (or indeed 2 friends), getting the less experienced modeller on the easier kit and making it a social. Your plan also makes perfect sense as the old kit is a level 1.
thanks :D
Surly just add the parts and decals 4 both in one kit ?
There is a follow-up video about these kits where I have a chat with the designer and he explains their reason for creating two kits: th-cam.com/video/uSVA0KgGzIg/w-d-xo.html
Is this "simplified kit" thing a new idea or has it always been this say with starter sets? And is it just Airfix that does this? I've bought several Revell starter sets over the years mainly for their little double sided red and blue brush which I use when decaling for MicroSol and MicroSet. I can't say I've ever noticed any simplification (no comments about lack of accurate detail on Revell's kits, we know, we know...)
Generally speaking, a “starter set” was just a normal kit from the range (usually an easier one) and some paints, glue and a brush thrown in. It would seem that whilst there are a selection of “easy build” kits out there, Airfix have decided to go the whole hog and tailor design a specific range of starter sets which will never be anything else
Pretty sure the starter kit is the more recent addition. Its design process was featured on the recent TV series about Hornby. I can’t see what the problems are with these being ‘the same aircraft’, because they aren’t. One is the easier to build version, as well as the other one is tropicalised and has two finish options. Why shouldn’t those less skilled or just starting out have the opportunity to have this Spitfire?
i explain my reasoning at the end of the video
I was also thinking something like: are we not aknowledging the other one is the tropical version?
@@stevemeulders7999 I mention that in the video…
@@ModelMinutes I must have missed it then. My mistake.
Think part of it might be a naming issue. The Vb typically only had 2 cannons while the Vc usually had 4
The B and C refer to the wing types - C being "universal" and could have the same armament as the B, whilst the B would need modification to bring it inline with the C type. As mentioned in the video, you will ultimately end up with the same model built at the end - both being Spitfire Vc
i bought the starter kit after watching this will skip the SuperMarine one,, will pick a different one.. cheers for the info...
Glad I could help
The lettering on the marks refers to the wings. Well more accurate it's the ariment configuration. But I did notice you can build a European mk v as well as a tropical out of the box
yup
I agree with you. The starter kit MK.VC should be a V B.
that would be cool :D
To me the overall concept of an easy version AND a conventional version makes sense in that Airfix quite rightly wants to encourage would be modellers into the hobby and the best way they can do that is make kits that are as simple as possible so that they aren't discouraged by "over engineered" kits but still have a bit of a challenge that "gives them" a Spitfire. The more modellers in the hobby means that it has a better chance of surviving which benefits Airfix and existing modellers. This two track way is the most cost effective way of achieving this - apologies retired accountant speaking, I now have a life!
as mentioned, the only real issue i have with this is that people who build one version, wont necessary want to repeat it by gettting a duplicate
Had the starter set been a Mk Vb, even more experienced modelers might have been tempted to buy one. To me at least it sounds tempting to have all subvariants of the Mk V with a similar level of surface detail from the same manufacturer.
Well said
It’s a pity that Airfix only did the Mk.Va, the non cannon armed Mk.V, as a limited run a few years back, it would be nice to build a Va, Vb and a Vc, but getting your hands on the Va is a bit difficult and expensive nowadays, unless of course the wings from the retooled Mk.Ia will fit the Mk.V fuselage with little or no problems.
I think the Va is basically a 1a with a different spinner on the nose, as far as the airfix tooling i have in the stash is concerned
@@ModelMinutes I did cross kit the Airfix Mk.Ia and Vb about twenty or so years ago to make a Va, the wings from the Ia fitted the Vb fuselage almost perfectly, the only change I had to do was remove the moulded on oil cooler under the port wing, far too shallow, and fit the oil cooler from the Vb, plus the prop and canopy. I haven’t had a look at the newer mouldings of the two aircraft that Airfix now do so I don’t know if the wings can be cross kitted as easily any more.
I tried my first camo paint today and im ashamed of it haha, Talked myself into a sprayer hopefully i can get a better finish
Good luck 😉
Interesting video. Fully agree that it would make more sense with one 5b and one 5c.
thanks! :D
Did you ask this question at you resent visit to Airfix?
i did - follow up video soon
Looking forward to watching this one. Hope it's not just different set of decals, and box art! Lol
Surprisingly . . . it isn't
Do a double build, Make the starter set ala starter set rules and build the standard kit the usual way. Sometimes there might be something different in the construction that isn't quite apparent when just looking at bits of sprue.
starter set is already built - video is already on my channel (i'm not buying another one lol)
@@ModelMinutes ooohhhh missed opportunities.....
@@charlieboye2009 well, not really, if you watched my build of the starter set kit you’d know that I hand painted it like a beginner, and when I get round to the “advanced” version I’ll do a more conventional build.
I just don’t always have time to build lots of kits at the same time sadly, and have to build kits and edit videos when I can
Airfix have made A decision whether it will be right or wrong only time will tell as the market will speak and sales will tell if they were correct in their thought process , I have yet to see the starter kit any where but I have already purchased 4 of the standard kit and have almost finished my 2nd one and have enjoyed both and will probably start on a third straight away I will build the non tropical version of which all the parts are in the kit except decals for which I will have to use my Xtradecal set . Happy modelling !
Sounds like you love a spitfire :)
I've got this kit to build, great kit but why not include a normal European version without the tropical air filter
saving that for a future release version i'm sure
Thanks mate ☺️
No problem 👍
My basic complaint is that I'm more likely to buy the Starter Set as I've been needing an easier kit after a streak of complex ones, but the other Vc has the cooler livery and the open canopy option. Not sure why the starter set doesn't have that option, the Hurricane starter set does.
If I recall correctly, the hurricane will be rebranded as a gift set (not being specifically designed as a starter set) and also the canopy is 2 part rather than intended to be displayed open (it doesn’t quite fit properly in the open position, being not designed for it and also not mentioned in the instructions)
@@ModelMinutes That does check out. While it did not fit very well in the open position I did still install it that way so that the cockpit was visible. I figured it was an intended feature but it indeed isn't mentioned in the instructions so I guess not.
i really like the spitfire mk vc
Yeah it’s a nice plane
Both of them look good
I've not built the desert version yet, so will have to see how it compares
I think you missed Airfix's point. The starter sets are to introduce new modelers to the hobby with easier to build kits. The kit with more options are for the more advanced modeler that wants to personalize his (her) build. The other point is that had they just made one version, you would have spent £10.00 but they managed to get you to spend £20.00
I get that point, and I explore elements of them in the unboxing I made on each kit in previous videos….
Were I not a review channel I would have only bought one of these kits because I don’t really want two spitfires of the exact same mark just with different skill in construction…
If anything, I think had they done my suggestion at the end of the video they would have opened up an even broader market
Doing various versions of the same aircraft isn't a novelty, Fujimi started in the early '80s with the "Phantom Family", followed by the A6, JU87 and A7, plus some japanese fighters, it's a way to utilize a common mold for some parts, plus a way to collect the history of a certain aircraft.
But these are different moulds
They love the spitfire id like to see different versions of the hawker hurricane and the messrschmitt and the tiger tank
maybe they are working on some new versions
@@ModelMinutes lets hope id aslo like to see them bring back the hind a/d mil mi 24
Good thing to point out is although they are the same price and yes one has more detail and one with paints and glue has less, but lets be honest has anyone ever had an airfix kit where all the paints where completely dried out lol, maybe just my bad luck but cant be just me.
There is a Quality Control issue with the new paint pots - Airfix have made it known they are investigating the problem and looking at resolving it (the pots are designed in such a way that when the lids are pushed on, they will pop off slightly which allows air in to dry the paints out)
I suspect that it is about marketing, they may well have determined that the starter model will sell better to new or casual model builder, but not to the more experienced modeller who will prefer the other kit. I don't think they expect someone who has built the starter set to buy the other kit, but a kit of a different subject. And/or it might be about where they sell the kits. The starter model might be more attractive to toy shops, news agents etc. but not to model shops for instance. I expect that they have done some very careful research and determined that two models will net them more sales than just one.
maybe
I agree, this makes no sense.
Also, whats the point of building a Mk. V, a Mk. Vb and a Mk. Vc? Can you tell the difference when all of them are displayed next to each other in the display case? I, personally, would rather build one Spitfire and (say) a Bf 109 and a Mustang (for example).
More importantly, how did you manage to watch this video when it’s still not been released yet? 😂
@@ModelMinutes LOL, there a card in the starter-set build video
@@EindbaasToad that’s insane, TH-cam literally informs me that unlisted videos will not get cards shown. I guess you are lucky, seeing this video before everyone else
Spit on top looks like a Tropical with a Vokes air filter
it is . . . did you watchg the video?
I think Airfix are getting 2 kits fir the development costs of one. I guess they are aimed at slightly different markets.
yup
EVERY company has spitfire, bf109 and mustang in their range :-) and they are constantly improving them, especially pilot space, which makes me confused especialy with these little canopies
Yeah, sometimes i don't bother detailing the cockpit . .because who can see it lol
Don't understand it either Matt, I get the starter set is a simpler build, but why waste thousands of pounds on a separate mould of the same variant when you could've tooled a lessor available mark!
i agree
The clipped wing and one from the blackpool illuminations
yes, these were announced and released a year or so after this video was made
I have the starter set one
Watch, Hornby : A model world, series 1 episode 5, (on Yesterday) it explains everything about the new starter kit.
Yeah I saw it when it came out
In all honesty this is just a 14 min video of Matt ranting about why Airfix made two of the same aircraft
Yup, get ready for a follow up too because Airfix contacted me about it 😂
@@ModelMinutes oh wow I’m so excited for a follow up, I’ll have to attend the premiere for that one
@@ModelMinutes the big question is will they talk about it on the next sprue talk?
I think your missing the point Matt.
I watched Phil Flory's interview with Paramjit from Airfix who designed the Mk.Vc starter set and he said the entire decision around creating this kit was to bring a brand new and simpler starter set for brand new modellers to ensure their first experience in the hobby is an enjoyable one.
This kit really wasn't really meant for modellers like you and I.
Don't get me wrong there's nothing stopping us from buying 1 but they are 2 totally different kits meant for 2 totally different target audiences.
I know why they made the starter set version, I discussed that in the unboxing and build videos I made on that kit and I actually think it's a great idea.
The point I dont get, and as mentioned here, is why do 2 versions of the same one - why not do a slightly different version as the starter set and another as the more advanced version, that way if an more experienced modeller wants both versions of 2 different aircraft they can, same with beginners who got their practice in on the simple one. But if i were a beginner who had made a Vc, i might not want to do another one - there is not as much incentive there to do the same kit again . . .
@@ModelMinutes I agree but is there any feasible way to make or produce a Mk.Vc Trop using the Mk.Vc Starter Set?
Your right we dont need more spitfires😂 what you say dose makes sense mate
Lol, too right :P
BTW ref the reason there are two kits.. I think it was a marketing / business decision rather than a model one. Why spend the money developing two entire kits when it's cheaper to make one kit, simplify it, and then sell the first as a standard kit and the second as a starter set. Spend less on design / development and get two kits out of it maximising profit.
I'm currently in communication with Airfix regarding this, so perhaps I will make a follow up video with their answers when i find out :D
Who cares, really now. I like both versions. and it's clear why they make both. Va , Vb, Vc, The next one is Vd, which is the one I don't want to get. I love airfix and it's various kits. God knows I am a glutton for them. I have over 500 airfix kits.
Airfix haven't made a Vb in 1/72 since 2013 (and even then it was a limited edition) and it was a 1975 tooling
Airfix made a 1/24 scale spitfire mk Vb
@@yasirwaqar-et2dr based on their ancient Mk1 tooling
Because one is a basic starter set, companies need to make their money from the tooling and design process so multiple boxings are a must. Why not ask why Tamiya have been knocking out the same Mustang kit for the last 25 years.
But it's 2 different toolings . . .
Surely it can't be cheaper to make 2 different versions of the same subject using 2 different tools . .
Modifed yeah, maybe the sprues are on the same tool as the detailed kit? but obviously airfix think it's worth it. The Vc is the most requested marque, and there's enough differences if you know what you're looking at. It's why eduard can make a dozen different 109G kits, they are all different if you care to know how.
@@travis_thompson I would imagine these are seperate tools to avoid mixing the parts up on the production line
The starter set is a normal MkVc the other kit is a Tropical version, so one used in Africa and over the Med, with the big sand filter under the engine. I think that's the main selling point.
I can build a non-tropical version from both kits though…
It’s a game of spot the difference
it really is
we do need a mk5c so you can do a RAAF in South Pacific WW2 or RAF in Burma WW2 the mk5b was not use in these places so a has a New Zealand japan was more of a threat to use then Germany
I wasn’t really questioning whether we needed a Vc, more if we needed 2 in different skill level toolings when they will look objectively the same when constructed
LOL.I remember back in the mid seventies here in Australia,My hobby shop had these as a series 1 kit in a plastic bag with the instructions as a folded up section closing off the top of the plastic bag with a hole in the middle at the very top.They had a big wall just above the front door that had hanging hooks that came straight out with a slight twist up at the end to hold the bags in place and these where about 4 kits deep maybe 15 kits across and 5 or so down.the lower section of the wall had larger hooks that where spaced next to each other to allow the series 2 kits in boxes to be placed 2 deep and maybe 10 across and 2 or 3 down..They then had a long gripper tool about 6 ft long that could grab what kitt you wanted.That was a lot of Airfix Kits back then.Bigger kits or boats/ships or cars were on shelves at shoulder level and below.The hobby shop is Loonnngggg gone but the memories remain!!.P.S. this was before starter kits with paints and glue.
thanks for sharing!
One is a mk vc in Europe the other is a tropical one am. As the real thing. It nothing to do with one being a starter set.
despite the fact that it has everything to do with one of them being a starter set - they are completely different toolings! (or did you not watch the video?)
This is trying to understand the reasoning behind the Airfix decision to produce two kits of what are ostensibly the same Spitfire model.
To aficionados of the Spitfire, no collection of piston engine fighters should be without one, this offering would probably be a rather welcome one, but to the modeler who wants but one example, two could mean a lost opportunity to produce a kit of another aircraft instead.
exactly
Just spilled paint all over my mousepad, pants, and carpet.
oh no!
have you asked airfix why ? trust me there will be a reason , money may be behind it usually is , plus matt, come on mate , let it go , 🤣🤣🤣🤣👍👍
i'm fine . . . . honestly . . . . Although i probably have a bit of a breakdown everytime i look at all the spitfires in my stash
Actually, airfix didn't make these 2 spitfires, they made 4 spitfire mk 5c's
yes, but at the time this video was made there were only 2
Airfix made the right decision as a company. As one of their people admitted at the recent TH-camr day "Spitfires sell more than anything else". You are deluded if you think they care about individual customers.
it's funny you mention the TH-camr day because I was there and actually had the chance to have a chat with the designer of this kit and address my concerns/queries about why they made 2 of the same models. Stay tuned for that interview coming soon
since when did the yanks fly the spitfire during ww2?
1942
Edit: They weren't widely used but there were many squadrons that had them in various theatres when their "intended" aircraft were either delayed, diverted, or simply not good enough for that theatre so they ended up using British aircraft that they knew would work
Bloody luxury. Such drama.
So much drama
@@ModelMinutes Exactly, glad you agree.
The starter set is aimed ageneral retailers and casual builders who arnt bothered about historical accuracy , the othe is for modellers who maybe want to build every version with every paint scheme , as an experienced modeller going into a shop to buy a present for a niece or nephew the starter set would win every time !
i understand the differences between buying a starter set and an advanced kit, my main concern was that it will end up with the same model in the end, it would have made more sense to me to do different versions of the same aircraft rather than the same, that way a beginner can get the other version of the plane after building the starter set
maybe Airfix borrowed tools from other manufacturers. It's a common method in the industry...
Nah, this is 100% Airfix tooling, they even made a tv program about the design process
Instead of asking US, why not ask AIRFIX ?
Because how would that promote discussion?
I’m very sure that you have the exact same old every single time apart from ww1 And modern and
not sure you quite finished your comment before posting it . . .
@@ModelMinutes I just put and for no reason
It’s just that Airfix is running out of ideas 😂
or repeating the classics lol
Because there stupid haha. I think its down to money , their logic must be if you buy the starter kit and you decide you like the hobby if you read or watch a review of the more difficult version then you might go and by it , the more kits they sell the more money they make . Oh yes i often ask myself what another bloody spitefire why , i do wish they would make something different , take a risk .
I suppose this was a decision they made a few years ago seeing as these are technically 2020 range products, it's just taken that long to get them